Pathfinder Alpha Rules Discussion Thread

[AKA_Bait]

It seemed like the thread Matthew started (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75345)ended up being more about the publication and market position aspects of the just released Pathfinder Apha Release (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8253) and I didn't want to start the derailment by posting this there.

So, I'm still making my way through the release but so far, I'm liking most althought not all of what I see.

Things I like so far:

Skill Consolidation- this is one of the few things 4e will be doing that I actually approve of and has been a long needed fix to the overcomplexity of 3.x

Gnomes- Now I'm not a gnomiphile, but I'm glad, unlike 4e thus far, that they have found a nice nonspecific niche for gnomes to occupy in the flavor.

Things I don't like so far:

Changing Racial Characteristics- I'm not a fan of this since it messes with the aim of having the game be backwards compatible. It's a fair number of changes and I could see it causing trouble in an ongoing game.

What are your thoughts?

[Iku Rex]

Without getting too specific, my first impression is that they're making too many changes. The so-called "3.75" may well end up less backwards compatible than 3.5, which is a huge mistake. Being able to use existing supplements would be an important selling point.

However, it's a playtest document. It could be that they included a lot of ideas for improvements in order to have them tested in play.

[Renegade Paladin]

I like most of it. What I don't like is the all-or-nothing skill system. I like to have characters branch out, especially from skills where the modifier has surpassed any realistic DC. (Tumble rapidly comes to mind as one that's good to leave after mid-levels with a skill point system.)

Some of the combat feats are a little weird too, especially the ones with Dodge as a prerequisite; they require that you use one of the prerequisite feats in the previous round before you get to use the feat. That strikes me as a bit overly complicated; it also assumes long combats, which unless they change a lot more stuff than they already have, will not be the norm any more than it is in 3.5.

[Ulzgoroth]

The move-chains are kind of strange in some cases. My biggest objection was the elimination of the skill rank system. I understand some people consider it fiddly (though I can't really see why), but I don't want to see it go. Easy to undo though, with or without the consolidations.

Removing the mandatory touch attack from grappling and tripping in particular means that dexterity is useless in avoiding such attacks, and small creatures are even more vulnerable than they already were. Making a grapple a standard action means you can't do a charging tackle. You also can't damage someone while grappling them, which seems strange.

[Matthew]

I think that the compatability issue is the primary concern for this proposition. Looking at the number of Skills and Feats that they would like to change suggests to me that almost everything published for D20 1e will have to be converted in some way to be used with this rule set. That wouldn't be a problem if the things that were being addressed were the most significant problems, but so far I am seeing quite a lot of change for the sake of change (some of which I find aesthetically pleasing, but consider harmful in terms of backwards compatability).

I think if they dumped the distinction between Class and Cross Class Skills it would go a long way towards increasing simplicity without taking away the 'customisation' of assigning Skill Points.

I really like the idea of Path Finder as an alternative to D20 2e and that they are developing it in conjunction with the fanbase, rather than dictating to them what it is going to be, but I think that any way you cut it, there's going to be more conversion work than if I just play D20 Modules with the Castles & Crusades rule set.

[AKA_Bait]

Yeah, having read much more of it now I have to say that my initial positive assessment was probably wrong. There is a good amount of stuff I really like but more that feels clunky/problematic.

The more I look at the more I feel like it's trying to solve problems with 3.5 with a sledge hammer when a pen knife would be more appropriate. The changes to the skills jumps out at me for this particularly.

It also seems like a lot of new stuff to learn/added into the base classes. School specialization for wizards is an example.

[CASTLEMIKE]

There was a lot more I liked than didn't care for. The really nice thing is Paizo is soliciting feedback and already addressing some of the concern issues from having lots of eyes pointing out aspects the designers never considered or overlooked regarding some of the mechanics.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, having read much more of it now I have to say that my initial positive assessment was probably wrong. There is a good amount of stuff I really like but more that feels clunky/problematic.

The more I look at the more I feel like it's trying to solve problems with 3.5 with a sledge hammer when a pen knife would be more appropriate. The changes to the skills jumps out at me for this particularly.

It also seems like a lot of new stuff to learn/added into the base classes. School specialization for wizards is an example.
That's why you're looking at an open alpha test document. By all means, go to Paizo and voice your concerns; that's why they released it in the first place.

[Mojo_Rat]

I glanced through it Looking at the charts and tables and similar things rather than sitting down to read. (as i find long documents on computers a pain)

That said at least looking at the skills it looks like they are doing alot of things long wanted (consolodation of some skills) while still staying with the skill point system.

Alot of the ideas seemed Neat and I am interested in seeing more given it is an Alpha document.

[Matthew]

Just thought I would link the discussion thread over at Troll Lord Games Path Finder RPG (http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4536&mforum=trolllordgames) and Knights & Knaves Path Finder RPG (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4234&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0).



Yeah, having read much more of it now I have to say that my initial positive assessment was probably wrong. There is a good amount of stuff I really like but more that feels clunky/problematic.

The more I look at the more I feel like it's trying to solve problems with 3.5 with a sledge hammer when a pen knife would be more appropriate. The changes to the skills jumps out at me for this particularly.

It also seems like a lot of new stuff to learn/added into the base classes. School specialization for wizards is an example.

Indeed. This is part of the reason that I find it easier to start with a simple baseline (or 'light' system) and add complexity. D20 1e has so many default rules and integrated systems that messing around with whole systems is a proposition fraught with peril. Adding stuff or changing individual rules keyed to system elements (such as adding a Parry System, removing or adding Spells/Maneouvres/Feats or changing how certain feats or skills, such as Diplomacy works) doesn't do a whole lot of damage to the ruleset, but tearing out the skill system and reinventing it is a conversion nightmare.

The changes made between 3.0 and 3.5 were nowhere near as sweeping as is being proposed with Path Finder.

[Sebastian]

Interesting the way they do favorite classes, you get a extra hit point every time you take a level in that class, or in a class of your choice for humans and half-elfs. Not sure I like it, but not sure i don't like it either, I need to mull it over a little.

[LibraryOgre]

I rather like what I'm seeing, actually.

The racial abilities were fairly well-done; I didn't particularly agree with upping the intelligence of Halflings, but I'm not a fan of halflings, so I admit my bias.

I like the consolidation of skills (was pleasantly surprised by Concentration being folded into Spellcraft) and, while I'm not overjoyed about losing skill points, it's easy to backwards engineer AND since you gain another skill at every even level, it's not like you're stuck with what you learn at 1st level... a 20th level human rogue can have 25 skills maxxed out (5 for first level intelligence of twenty + 1 for being a human + 8 for being a rogue + 10 for level increases + 2 for possible intelligence increases)... that's more than you can manage in 1e d20 (good term, Matthew), and is easier to track.

Shield-fighting was made a real option with some of the combat feats. Grappling was moved more into the realm of pins and holds, less into wrestling (not something I agree with), though you can do a bit of a flying tackle with the much-clearer bull rush (forcing your opponent back and prone). Eliminating the opposed rolls also favors the PCs, since more randomness favors the less skilled, who are usually the NPCs, and those who are "on screen" less, who are definitely the NPCs.

Wizard specializations are now real choices... and if you're a specialist who stays within his specialty, you can be a magical combatant, for some specialties, all the time (the Evocation, Conjuration, and Illusion specialties all allow you to simply keep throwing nastiness at your enemies). Sneak attacks now work against everything but Jell-O, avoiding the "Rogues are useless in a tomb, but we need one to survive."

I'm looking at going over to the Paizo boards and talking about this. I might want to field "Races of Savagery" to them.

EDIT: Sent in a query letter to the editor-in-chief of the Pathfinder line.

[Matthew]

Skills are difficult territory. It strains my suspension of disbelief a little for a Character to go from 0 Ranks to 10 Ranks in the gap between Level 9 and 10 (and I know this is possible in D20, I still don't like it). My proposition would be to have three types of Skill:

Class Inappropriate [Limit = Level + Race + Attribute - 4]
Class Neutral [Limit = Level + Race + Attribute]
Class Appropriate [Limit = Level + Race + Attribute + 4]

and allow the Player complete freedom to choose where within those limits he wants to set the Skill Ranks of his character at each level. I think that this would do a lot to diffuse the power gaming aspect of D20, since (theoretically) skill ranks become more about the character envisioned and less about trying to scrape together as many Skill Points as possible.

Obviously, Munchkins will just max out every skill (or, more probably, complain that they can), but, if they want to do that, let them.

[TheThan]

well things look fairly good so far, it'll give it a more thorough later and report back on my thoughts on the whole thing.

[Cainen]

There's a ton wrong with it, and the designers don't seem to know what they're doing, to be honest. Making things like Point-Blank Shot a maneuver is stupid when the only way to execute maneuvers is based off of Strength+BAB. Casters are far more powerful now due to specialist schools being stronger, and I can only assume domains will follow shortly afterwards. The skill system pays out an absolute ton compared to the original rules(human fighter with 10 INT gets 69 skill points total at level 20 under base rules, human fighter with 10 INT gets 286-297 effective skill points under Pathfinder's rules), but it's certainly not bad. Maneuvers are clunky, and many of them are actually useless past a point; Cleave/Great Cleave certainly are, since Whirlwind Attack works better than GC and Cleave is giving up your iteratives to strike two people. The rogue, one of the more powerful non-casters, is stronger, and the fighter only gets some DR, some extra AC, some extra to-hit, and an instant-crit? None of those solve the problem with fighters in the core rules.

D&D isn't my cup of tea in the first place, but I know basic design principles and can pinpoint flaws in rules pretty quickly. There are a lot of them in Pathfinder's system, and they need to work on them. I like their mission, I just don't like that they don't understand what made 3.5 a flawed system in the first place and that they aren't taking any steps towards eliminating those flaws.

[LibraryOgre]

A few counter-points...


There's a ton wrong with it, and the designers don't seem to know what they're doing, to be honest. Making things like Point-Blank Shot a maneuver is stupid when the only way to execute maneuvers is based off of Strength+BAB.

That is not true. Some maneuvers (like grapple, trip, bullrush and overrun) are based on the CMB (which is Strength + BAB + size). Point Blank Shot is simply an addition to your ranged attack bonus, if you choose to use that particular combat maneuver in that round.


Casters are far more powerful now due to specialist schools being stronger, and I can only assume domains will follow shortly afterwards.

They are also more limited. To use those neat abilities, they have to give up two schools. If you prepare any spells from your prohibited schools, you lose your neat abilities, unless you choose the universal school, which has lesser abilities.


The skill system pays out an absolute ton compared to the original rules(human fighter with 10 INT gets 69 skill points total at level 20 under base rules, human fighter with 10 INT gets 286-297 effective skill points under Pathfinder's rules), but it's certainly not bad.

A lack of skill points was a major complaint, from what i understood.


Maneuvers are clunky, and many of them are actually useless past a point; Cleave/Great Cleave certainly are, since Whirlwind Attack works better than GC and Cleave is giving up your iteratives to strike two people.

Over at the Paizo boards, there's a lot of complaint about the "combos". However, I'll point out that Cleave can be done at 1st level, whereas iteratives cannot. And Great Cleave (though it suffers from having to use Cleave in the previous round) is the new Whirlwind Attack.


The rogue, one of the more powerful non-casters, is stronger, and the fighter only gets some DR, some extra AC, some extra to-hit, and an instant-crit? None of those solve the problem with fighters in the core rules.

I think they did quite well by fighters, though I'm not happy with the combos (especially now that I've read them more closely).

[Cainen]

One of the problems with maneuvers is that it's REALLY hard to perform them against equally matched opponents, especially if they have high STR/BAB. The DC for performing one is 15 + their CMB, remember. You HAVE to make enemies under the curve to make maneuvers reliable, and you still might have trouble doing that, especially if your players are unlucky.

The problem is that Cleave(and Great Cleave) quickly becomes very useless once you get iteratives; it's great at first through fifth level. But at sixth, you'd be better off with the original attack.e

Casters aren't more limited in any way. Specialists were actually weaker under the original rules, and Universal(for generalists) is one of THE most powerful schools due to them getting what's essentially Divine Metamagic and a free metamagic feat. You weren't reading it right if you thought it was weaker.

[LibraryOgre]

One of the problems with maneuvers is that it's REALLY hard to perform them against equally matched opponents, especially if they have high STR/BAB. The DC for performing one is 15 + their CMB, remember. You HAVE to make enemies under the curve to make maneuvers reliable, and you still might have trouble doing that, especially if your players are unlucky.

Intentional, actually. It makes it so people don't simply sit there trying to trip the opposition all combat. If your players want to use it reliably, they take a feat to make it more reliable; Agile Maneuvers (if you're a dex type) or Improved [Combat Maneuver], which gives you a +2 (making the effective bonus 13 + CMB, instead of 15 + CMB).


The problem is that Cleave(and Great Cleave) quickly becomes very useless once you get iteratives; it's great at first through fifth level. But at sixth, you'd be better off with the original attack.e

Actually, depends on your strategy. Cleave can be just as good at 6-10 if you don't mind splitting your attacks (slightly better, if you were planning on it anyway, since you don't lose 5 points to the iterative penalty); Great Cleave, likewise keeps value if you're attacking multiple opponents. Got a reach weapon and in the second rank, and you'll clean up without danger. If you're in the first rank, you can choose between attacking multiple targets at your full BAB, or your choice at decreasing AB with your iteratives.


Casters aren't more limited in any way. Specialists were actually weaker under the original rules, and Universal(for generalists) is one of THE most powerful schools due to them getting what's essentially Divine Metamagic and a free metamagic feat. You weren't reading it right if you thought it was weaker.
You're right. That is overpowered.

EDIT: A fact of which they are already aware (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/feedback/alpha1/racesClasses/wizardClassP1519). On that page, there's a post from Jason Bulmahn, the lead designer saying they're working on pruning back the Universalist, because they get away with a lot with no cost.

[Cainen]

Intentional, actually. It makes it so people don't simply sit there trying to trip the opposition all combat. If your players want to use it reliably, they take a feat to make it more reliable; Agile Maneuvers (if you're a dex type) or Improved [Combat Maneuver], which gives you a +2 (making the effective bonus 13 + CMB, instead of 15 + CMB).

So they're... trying to make it full attacking, but with the ability to do some other stuff while still being nerfed? The entire POINT of 3E's fighters was to move away from 2E's design. I think they hamhanded it, especially if you take into account 2E's supplements(which made fighters great to play), but that was not the point.


Actually, depends on your strategy. Cleave can be just as good at 6-10 if you don't mind splitting your attacks (slightly better, if you were planning on it anyway, since you don't lose 5 points to the iterative penalty); Great Cleave, likewise keeps value if you're attacking multiple opponents. Got a reach weapon and in the second rank, and you'll clean up without danger. If you're in the first rank, you can choose between attacking multiple targets at your full BAB, or your choice at decreasing AB with your iteratives.

Only at level 6-10. It's horrible at when you get your third iterative, and whirlwind attack is literally better at being itself than GC is.


A fact of which they are already aware (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/feedback/alpha1/racesClasses/wizardClassP1519). On that page, there's a post from Jason Bulmahn, the lead designer saying they're working on pruning back the Universalist, because they get away with a lot with no cost.

It doesn't look like they're addressing what I said.

[Grynning]

OK, I've just finished my 3rd read through and first character creation (just as an experiment). Here's my nitpicking/complaints:

1. Fighter still kinda sucks
The fighter, while vastly improved, still quickly falls behind the other 3 classes in options. The two "capstone" abilities could be better. The DR that they get at 19 should be a scaling bonus and begin at a lower level (essentially the way the Core barbarian's does now) and the 20th level ability is essentially a gimped version of the Weapon Supremacy chain from PHBII, which anyone who goes that many levels in Fighter will be taking anyways (I know PHBII isn't core, but since this book is supposedly designed for maximum "compatibility" they should plan for that and give them something different).

2. Some of the skill folds don't make sense
I like the Saga-edition style skill system overall (I was never a fan of spreading skill points out too much) but some of the skills they combined bother me - mostly Linguistics and Theft. Theft includes open lock, which means Rogues are essentially the only ones who can pick locks now, either that or my Artificer can now pick pockets. Linguistics is the same way - the wizard who's good at interpreting dead languages is now a master forger? Right...It feels like the designers thought that only Rogues would ever roll skill checks.

3. The Exp system
While it looks like their exp system will yield slightly more exp per encounter than the current one, they upped the level caps all around, and added two optional "slower" progressions. This seems like a waste of space. I've never met a group that thought that D&D level progression was too FAST. And I would prefer the flat exp per monster style that 4th seems to be moving to, although I understand the inherent conversion issues. If we run this, we will probably not use this exp system at all, and stick to our current house rules (basically an ad-hoc system with a few guidelines, so that our players level when they need to).

4. Other minor things
The feat design still makes wailing on things with a giant two-hander the most effective martial art, two-weapon fighting is still a waste for fighters, Strength and Size are now even MORE important for melee due to the CMB stat (no accounting for Dex at ALL? c'mon...), and some of the schools/domains are a bit unbalanced. I was also disappointed with the "Item Bond" alternative to a familiar they have for wizards, it's pretty lame and was obviously an afterthought. The game is overly combat-oriented, but then again, so is D&D, so I guess that's fine.

HOWEVER...

I do really like it overall. I think the racial changes work well, and any issues with LA for other races can easily be addressed by a competent DM, and I'm glad to see playable half-elves and half-orcs. Clerics are a bit more interesting beyond their spell selection and Divine Metamagic cheese, and the new Turn Undead is fun. The Rogues are perfect, the tweaking of certain mechanics is great (like removing a lot of pointless opposed checks and making Power Attack and Combat Expertise static, for instance), and it feels a lot more like D&D than the 4th Edition stuff I've read. If this Alpha/Beta open playtest manages to resolve at least some of the issues above it will most likely be my "new" game of choice. Thumbs up.

Edited for minor grammar and punctuation fixes.
Edited again because I somehow entirely missed the Agile Maneuvers feat.

[Renegade Paladin]

Just to note, they released Alpha 1.1 a few days ago. The requirement to use feat chains in sequence is now gone, among other things.

[Matthew]

I realy do wish they would address the Power Attack problem.

[Iku Rex]

I realy do wish they would address the Power Attack problem.What is it you think is the problem?

[Kurald Galain]

One thing that struck me as really overly convoluted, is the new perception skill, with its lengthy tables for all five senses, and lots of things giving bonuses to only one of those. I mean seriously, how often are you going to make smell checks, and is it really worth the bother to have several races give a bonus to smell only?

[Starbuck_II]

One thing that struck me as really overly convoluted, is the new perception skill, with its lengthy tables for all five senses, and lots of things giving bonuses to only one of those. I mean seriously, how often are you going to make smell checks, and is it really worth the bother to have several races give a bonus to smell only?

When your looking for who farted in a room?

[Renegade Paladin]

Or possibly for detecting inhaled poisons before it's strong enough to poison you.

[DrowVampyre]

One thing that struck me as really overly convoluted, is the new perception skill, with its lengthy tables for all five senses, and lots of things giving bonuses to only one of those. I mean seriously, how often are you going to make smell checks, and is it really worth the bother to have several races give a bonus to smell only?

When the mummy's trying to sneak up on you? Sure, it may be stealthy...but the stench! :smallbiggrin:

[Kioran]

I think, personally, that it´s a work of enthusiasts - who lack much experience with either d20 1.5 or designing games in general. as far as I can see, they just tack on a little more power everywhere - that´s going to get them some votes, but Wizards and Clerics do not need a boost. Seriously. Yeah, I think it would be better if they got a bunch of class Features instead of a blank table, but then the spelllist needs a revision - a serious one.
Of course, that´s a problem of backwards compatibility......


I realy do wish they would address the Power Attack problem.

Amen. It´s strange that PA is the only melee effect that scales properly with lvl, and it becomes downright ridiculous compared with the rest if you throw in Feats and class Features which fruther improve upon it.....
Either make everything scale the same or abandon scaling like PA. That attack bonus far outruns AC in d20 compounds the problem. In d20, all other Feats for melee paled in comparison to Power Attack.



If I were to rewrite d20, like I do right now, and I wouldn´t have to assure backwards compatibility, I´d:

- Make classes grow in the necessary stats, so that a Fighter gains a plethora of physical boosts, a Wizard gains intelligence etc. This step should ensure that all classes all equally viable, even with 3d6/15 Point Buy. No class (Monk.....) shouldn´t be viable because one "only" has 25 PB
- Make Base classes more generic, with less strings attached, especially no alignment restrictions. That also means that some classes (like Paladin) are replaced by something thematically close which is not tied to an archetype with a specific alignment
- Characters should have more skills, but not all of them/less of them maxed out. There is no class/cross-class restriction on lerning skills, however, characters have less free ranks. They do gain some class skills automatically, at 1/2 ranks/lvl
- Casters always use two stats to cast
- Vancian casting remains. There´s lvl 1-6 of spells, with the former being more powerful than todays lvl 1 spells, and the latter significantly less powerful than todays 9th lvl. Very powerful spells are only available through ritual magic.
- Medium Armor gets a boost. There should be more than 5 viable armors.
- boatloads of other stuff.......

[Overlord]

The way I'm looking at the Pathfinder RPG (at the moment, at least) is like a big book of house rules, which happen to be designed to fit together well.

I can base my game on this modified version of 3.5, and add in my house rules to supplement/replace the Pathfinder rules when I so desire.

For example, Fighters might still not be quite strong enough, but the Tome of Battle classes are still a go.

[Iku Rex]

Amen. It´s strange that PA is the only melee effect that scales properly with lvl, and it becomes downright ridiculous compared with the rest if you throw in Feats and class Features which fruther improve upon it.....
Either make everything scale the same or abandon scaling like PA. That attack bonus far outruns AC in d20 compounds the problem. In d20, all other Feats for melee paled in comparison to Power Attack.Power Attack is only rarely useful in melee against appropriate challenges.

When it is useful, it is as the solution to the problem of AB outrunning AC. A legendary fighter should be able to kill a soft, slow target more quickly than a less skilled fighter. In the rules this is handled by the Power Attack feat.

[Matthew]

What is it you think is the problem?

It's not really what I think is the problem, but what has been consistantly mathematically demonstrated to be the problem, i.e. Two Handed Power Attack is better than every other combat style going beyond level 3 or 4. I don't know whether it's worth rehashing all the arguments here, but it would be nice if the three combat styles [i.e. Weapon and Shield, Two Handed Fighting and Two Weapon Fighting] were balanced in terms of Feat investment and effectiveness. For what it's worth, I preferred the D20 1.0 version.

[Iku Rex]

It's not really what I think is the problem, but what has been consistantly mathematically demonstrated to be the problem, i.e. Two Handed Power Attack is better than every other combat style going beyond level 3 or 4.Not true. The math shows that as a rule you don't want to use Power Attack. It often lowers your average damage per attack - sometimes considerably. It is by no means a useless feat, but Power Attack is a tactical option for special circumstances, not a "combat style".

("Ubercharger" is a combat style of sorts, but the problem is not Power Attack, it's poorly thought trough feats.)

Two-handed weapons are generally better, but not because of Power Attack.

[Matthew]

I never said Power Attack was a combat style. I said that it favours the combat styles to different degrees. Currently, Path Finder is using more or less the same rules as D20 1.5 for all three. Tell you what, though, here's some of the Math:

Level 1


Fighter 1 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave,
[Base Attack Bonus (1) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Power Attack (2)] = (2D6+2, 9.0)

Fighter 1 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave,
[Base Attack Bonus (1) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+1, 5.5)

Fighter 1 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (1 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8)] = (1D8, 4.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (1 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8)] = (1D8, 4.5)

Rogue 1 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (0) + Flanking (2)] = (2 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (1D6)] = (2D6, 7.0)

Rogue 1 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (0) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (0 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (1D6)] = (2D6, 7.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (0) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (0 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (1D6)] = (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 10

Fighter 1 A 70% (2D6+2, 9.0)
Fighter 1 B 70% (1D8+1, 5.5)
Fighter 1 C 60% (1D8, 4.5) / 60% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 1 A 65% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 1 B 55% (2D6, 7.0) / 55% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 12

Fighter 1 A 60% (2D6+2, 9.0)
Fighter 1 B 60% (1D8+1, 5.5)
Fighter 1 C 50% (1D8, 4.5) / 50% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 1 A 55% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 1 B 45% (2D6, 7.0) / 45% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 14

Fighter 1 A 50% (2D6+2, 9.0)
Fighter 1 B 50% (1D8+1, 5.5)
Fighter 1 C 40% (1D8, 4.5) / 40% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 1 A 45% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 1 B 35% (2D6, 7.0) / 35% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 16

Fighter 1 A 40% (2D6+2, 9.0)
Fighter 1 B 40% (1D8+1, 5.5)
Fighter 1 C 30% (1D8, 4.5) / 30% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 1 A 35% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 1 B 25% (2D6, 7.0) / 25% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 18

Fighter 1 A 30% (2D6+2, 9.0)
Fighter 1 B 30% (1D8+1, 5.5)
Fighter 1 C 20% (1D8, 4.5) / 20% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 1 A 25% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 1 B 15% (2D6, 7.0) / 15% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 20

Fighter 1 A 20% (2D6+2, 9.0)
Fighter 1 B 20% (1D8+1, 5.5)
Fighter 1 C 10% (1D8, 4.5) / 10% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 1 A 15% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 1 B 5% (2D6, 7.0) / 5% (2D6, 7.0)

Level 2


Fighter 2 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (2) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Power Attack (4)] = (2D6+4, 11.0)

Fighter 2 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (2) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Power Attack (2)] = (1D8+2, 6.5)

Fighter 2 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (2) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8)] = (1D8, 4.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (2) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8)] = (1D8, 4.5)

Rogue 2 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (1) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (1D6)] = (2D6, 7.0)

Rogue 2 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (1 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (1D6)] = (2D6, 7.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (1 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (1D6)] = (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 10

Fighter 2 A 70% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 2 B 70% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 2 C 70% (1D8, 4.5) / 70% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 2 A 70% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 2 B 60% (2D6, 7.0) / 60% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 12

Fighter 2 A 60% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 2 B 60% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 2 C 60% (1D8, 4.5) / 60% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 2 A 60% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 2 B 50% (2D6, 7.0) / 50% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 14

Fighter 2 A 50% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 2 B 50% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 2 C 50% (1D8, 4.5) / 50% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 2 A 50% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 2 B 40% (2D6, 7.0) / 40% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 16

Fighter 2 A 40% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 2 B 40% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 2 C 40% (1D8, 4.5) / 40% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 2 A 40% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 2 B 30% (2D6, 7.0) / 30% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 18

Fighter 2 A 30% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 2 B 30% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 2 C 30% (1D8, 4.5) / 30% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 2 A 30% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 2 B 20% (2D6, 7.0) / 20% (2D6, 7.0)

Attacking Armour Class 20

Fighter 2 A 20% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 2 B 20% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 2 C 20% (1D8, 4.5) / 20% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 2 A 20% (2D6, 7.0)
Rogue 2 B 10% (2D6, 7.0) / 10% (2D6, 7.0)

Level 3


Fighter 3 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (3) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (4 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Power Attack (4)] = (2D6+4, 11.0)

Fighter 3 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (3) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (4 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Power Attack (2)] = (1D8+2, 6.5)

Fighter 3 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack,
[Base Attack Bonus (3) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (0) + Flanking (2)] = (4 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Power Attack (0)] = (1D8, 4.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (3) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (0) + Flanking (2)] = (4 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Power Attack (0)] = (1D8, 4.5)

Rogue 3 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (2) + Flanking (2)] = (4 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (2D6)] = (3D6, 10.5)

Rogue 3 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse,
[Base Attack Bonus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (2 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (2D6)] = (3D6, 10.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (2 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (2D6)] = (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 10

Fighter 3 A 75% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 3 B 75% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 3 C 75% (1D8, 4.5) / 75% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 3 A 75% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 3 B 65% (3D6, 10.5) / 65% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 12

Fighter 3 A 65% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 3 B 65% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 3 C 65% (1D8, 4.5) / 65% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 3 A 65% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 3 B 55% (3D6, 10.5) / 55% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 14

Fighter 3 A 55% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 3 B 55% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 3 C 55% (1D8, 4.5) / 55% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 3 A 55% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 3 B 45% (3D6, 10.5) / 45% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 16

Fighter 3 A 45% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 3 B 45% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 3 C 45% (1D8, 4.5) / 45% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 3 A 45% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 3 B 35% (3D6, 10.5) / 35% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 18

Fighter 3 A 35% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 3 B 35% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 3 C 35% (1D8, 4.5) / 35% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 3 A 35% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 3 B 25% (3D6, 10.5) / 25% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 20

Fighter 3 A 25% (2D6+4, 11.0)
Fighter 3 B 25% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Fighter 3 C 25% (1D8, 4.5) / 25% (1D8, 4.5)
Rogue 3 A 25% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 3 B 15% (3D6, 10.5) / 15% (3D6, 10.5)

Level 4


Fighter 4 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (4) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (4)] = (2D6+6, 13.0)

Fighter 4 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (4) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (2)] = (1D8+4, 8.5)

Fighter 4 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (4) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (0) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (0)] = (1D8+2, 6.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (4) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (0) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (0)] = (1D8+2, 6.5)

Rogue 4 A (Short Sword)
Feats: None Relevant,
[Base Attack Bonus (3) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (2D6)] = (3D6, 10.5)

Rogue 4 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse,
[Base Attack Bonus (3) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (2D6)] = (3D6, 10.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (3) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = (3 AB)
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (2D6)] = (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 10

Fighter 4 A 80% (2D6+6, 13.0)
Fighter 4 B 80% (1D8+4, 8.5)
Fighter 4 C 80% (1D8+2, 6.5) / 80% (1D8, 6.5)
Rogue 4 A 80% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 4 B 70% (3D6, 10.5) / 70% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 12

Fighter 4 A 70% (2D6+6, 13.0)
Fighter 4 B 70% (1D8+4, 8.5)
Fighter 4 C 70% (1D8+2, 6.5) / 70% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Rogue 4 A 70% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 4 B 60% (3D6, 10.5) / 60% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 14

Fighter 4 A 60% (2D6+6, 13.0)
Fighter 4 B 60% (1D8+4, 8.5)
Fighter 4 C 60% (1D8+2, 6.5) / 60% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Rogue 4 A 60% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 4 B 50% (3D6, 10.5) / 50% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 16

Fighter 4 A 50% (2D6+6, 13.0)
Fighter 4 B 50% (1D8+4, 8.5)
Fighter 4 C 50% (1D8+2, 6.5) / 50% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Rogue 4 A 50% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 4 B 40% (3D6, 10.5) / 40% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 18

Fighter 4 A 40% (2D6+6, 13.0)
Fighter 4 B 40% (1D8+4, 8.5)
Fighter 4 C 40% (1D8+2, 6.5) / 40% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Rogue 4 A 40% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 4 B 30% (3D6, 10.5) / 30% (3D6, 10.5)

Attacking Armour Class 20

Fighter 4 A 30% (2D6+6, 13.0)
Fighter 4 B 30% (1D8+4, 8.5)
Fighter 4 C 30% (1D8+2, 6.5) / 30% (1D8+2, 6.5)
Rogue 4 A 30% (3D6, 10.5)
Rogue 4 B 20% (3D6, 10.5) / 20% (3D6, 10.5)

Level 5


Fighter 5 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (5) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (6)] = (2D6+6, 15.0)

Fighter 5 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (5) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+5, 9.5)

Fighter 5 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (5) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+3, 7.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (5) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (5 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+3, 7.5)

Rogue 5 A (Short Sword)
Feats: None Relevant,
[Base Attack Bonus (3) + Flanking (2)] = 5 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (3D6)] = (4D6, 14.0)

Rogue 5 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse,
[Base Attack Bonus (3) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 3 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (3D6)] = (4D6, 14.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (3) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 3 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (3D6)] = (4D6, 14.0)

Attacking Armour Class 10

Fighter 5 A 80% (2D6+8, 15.0)
Fighter 5 B 80% (1D8+5, 9.5)
Fighter 5 C 80% (1D8+3, 7.5) / 80% (1D8+3, 7.5)
Rogue 5 A 80% (4D6, 14.0)
Rogue 5 B 70% (4D6, 14.0) / 70% (4D6, 14.0)

Attacking Armour Class 12

Fighter 5 A 70% (2D6+8, 15.0)
Fighter 5 B 70% (1D8+5, 9.5)
Fighter 5 C 70% (1D8+3, 7.5) / 70% (1D8+3, 7.5)
Rogue 5 A 70% (4D6, 14.0)
Rogue 5 B 60% (4D6, 14.0) / 60% (4D6, 14.0)

Attacking Armour Class 14

Fighter 5 A 60% (2D6+8, 15.0)
Fighter 5 B 60% (1D8+5, 9.5)
Fighter 5 C 60% (1D8+3, 7.5) / 60% (1D8+3, 7.5)
Rogue 5 A 60% (4D6, 14.0)
Rogue 5 B 50% (4D6, 14.0) / 50% (4D6, 14.0)

Attacking Armour Class 16

Fighter 5 A 50% (2D6+8, 15.0)
Fighter 5 B 50% (1D8+5, 9.5)
Fighter 5 C 50% (1D8+3, 7.5) / 50% (1D8+3, 7.5)
Rogue 5 A 50% (4D6, 14.0)
Rogue 5 B 40% (4D6, 14.0) / 40% (4D6, 14.0)

Attacking Armour Class 18

Fighter 5 A 40% (2D6+8, 15.0)
Fighter 5 B 40% (1D8+5, 9.5)
Fighter 5 C 40% (1D8+3, 7.5) / 40% (1D8+3, 7.5)
Rogue 5 A 40% (4D6, 14.0)
Rogue 5 B 30% (4D6, 14.0) / 30% (4D6, 14.0)

Attacking Armour Class 20

Fighter 5 A 30% (2D6+8, 15.0)
Fighter 5 B 30% (1D8+5, 9.5)
Fighter 5 C 30% (1D8+3, 7.5) / 30% (1D8+3, 7.5)
Rogue 5 A 30% (4D6, 14.0)
Rogue 5 B 20% (4D6, 14.0) / 20% (4D6, 14.0)

Level 6



Fighter 6 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (6) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (6 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (6)] = (2D6+6, 15.0)

Fighter 6 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (6) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (6 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+5, 9.5)

Fighter 6 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (6) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (6 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+3, 7.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (6) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (6 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+3, 7.5)

Rogue 6 A (Short Sword)
Feats: None Relevant,
[Base Attack Bonus (4) + Flanking (2)] = 6 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (3D6)] = (4D6, 14.0)

Rogue 6 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (4) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 4 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (3D6)] = (4D6, 14.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (4) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 4 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (3D6)] = (4D6, 14.0)

Level 7


Fighter 7 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (7) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (7 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (6)] = (2D6+6, 15.0)

Fighter 7 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (7) + Weapon Focus (1) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (7 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+5, 9.5)

Fighter 7 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-]
[Base Attack Bonus (7) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (7 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+3, 7.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (7) + Weapon Focus (1) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (1) + Flanking (2)] = (7 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (1)] = (1D8+3, 7.5)

Rogue 7 A (Short Sword)
Feats: None Relevant,
[Base Attack Bonus (5) + Flanking (2)] = 7 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (4D6)] = (5D6, 17.5)

Rogue 7 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (5) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 5 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (4D6)] = (5D6, 17.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (5) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 5 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (4D6)] = (5D6, 17.5)

Level 8


Fighter 8 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword)
[Base Attack Bonus (8) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (8 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (8)] = (2D6+10, 17.0)

Fighter 8 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (8) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (8 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+6, 10.5)

Fighter 8 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword),
[Base Attack Bonus (8) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (8 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (2)] = (1D8+4, 8.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (8) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (2) + Flanking (2)] = (8 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (2)] = (1D8+4, 8.5)

Rogue 8 A (Short Sword)
Feats: None Relevant,
[Base Attack Bonus (6) + Flanking (2)] = 8 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (4D6)] = (5D6, 17.5)

Rogue 8 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (6) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 6 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (4D6)] = (5D6, 17.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (6) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 6 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (4D6)] = (5D6, 17.5)

Level 9


Fighter 9 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (8 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (10)] = (2D6+12, 19.0)

Fighter 9 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (8 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (5)] = (1D8+7, 11.5)

Fighter 9 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (9 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+4, 9.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (9) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (9 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+4, 9.5)

Rogue 9 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (6) + Flanking (2)] = 8 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (5D6)] = (6D6, 21.0)

Rogue 9 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (6) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 6 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (5D6)] = (6D6, 21.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (6) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 6 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (5D6)] = (6D6, 21.0)

Level 10


Fighter 10 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (10) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (9 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (10)] = (2D6+12, 19.0)

Fighter 10 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (10) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (9 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (5)] = (1D8+7, 11.5)

Fighter 10 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (10) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (9 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+4, 9.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (10) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (9 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+4, 9.5)

Rogue 10 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (7) + Flanking (2)] = 9 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (5D6)] = (6D6, 21.0)

Rogue 10 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (7) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 7 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (5D6)] = (6D6, 21.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (7) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 7 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (5D6)] = (6D6, 21.0)

Level 11


Fighter 11 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (11) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (10 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (10)] = (2D6+12, 19.0)

Fighter 11 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (11) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (10 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (5)] = (1D8+7, 11.5)

Fighter 11 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (11) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (10 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+4, 9.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (11) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (10 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (2) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+4, 9.5)

Rogue 11 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (8) + Flanking (2)] = 10 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (6D6)] = (7D6, 24.5.0)

Rogue 11 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (8) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 8 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (6D6)] = (7D6, 24.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (8) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 8 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (6D6)] = (7D6, 24.5)

Level 12


Fighter 12 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (12) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (10)] = (2D6+14, 21.0)

Fighter 12 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (12) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (5) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (5)] = (1D8+9, 13.5)

Fighter 12 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Greater Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (12) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+7, 11.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (12) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (3) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (3)] = (1D8+7, 11.5)

Rogue 12 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) + Flanking (2)] = 11 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (6D6)] = (7D6, 24.5)

Rogue 12 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 9 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (6D6)] = (7D6, 24.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (9) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 9 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (6D6)] = (7D6, 24.5)

Level 13


Fighter 13 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (13) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (6) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (12)] = (2D6+16, 23.0)

Fighter 13 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (13) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (6) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (6)] = (1D8+10, 14.5)

Fighter 13 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation, Greater Two Weapon Fighting,
[Base Attack Bonus (13) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+8, 12.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (13) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (11 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+8, 12.5)

Rogue 13 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) + Flanking (2)] = 11 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (7D6)] = (8D6, 28.0)

Rogue 13 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (9) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 9 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (7D6)] = (8D6, 28.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (9) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 9 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (7D6)] = (8D6, 28.0)

Level 14


Fighter 14 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (14) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (6) + Flanking (2)] = (12 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (12)] = (2D6+16, 23.0)

Fighter 14 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (14) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (6) + Flanking (2)] = (12 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (6)] = (1D8+10, 14.5)

Fighter 14 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (14) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (12 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+8, 12.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (14) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (12 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+8, 12.5)

Rogue 14 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (10) + Flanking (2)] = 12 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (7D6)] = (8D6, 28.0)

Rogue 14 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (10) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 10 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (7D6)] = (8D6, 28.0)
[Base Attack Bonus (10) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 10 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (7D6)] = (8D6, 28.0)

Level 15


Fighter 15 A (Great Sword)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Great Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (15) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (6) + Flanking (2)] = (13 AB)
[Great Sword (2D6) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (12)] = (2D6+16, 23.0)

Fighter 15 B (Long Sword and Heavy Shield)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, [-], [-], Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (15) + Weapon Focus (2) – Power Attack (6) + Flanking (2)] = (13 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (6)] = (1D8+10, 14.5)

Fighter 15 C (Two Long Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Long Sword), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], Greater Weapon Focus (Long Sword), [-], [-], Greater Weapon Specialisation, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (15) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (13 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+8, 12.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (15) + Weapon Focus (2) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) – Power Attack (4) + Flanking (2)] = (13 AB)
[Long Sword (1D8) + Weapon Specialisation (4) + Power Attack (4)] = (1D8+8, 12.5)

Rogue 15 A (Short Sword)
Feats: [-], [-], [-], [-], [-], [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (11) + Flanking (2)] = 13 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (8D6)] = (9D6, 31.5)

Rogue 15 B (Two Short Swords)
Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, [-], Improved Two Weapon Fighting, [-], [-],
[Base Attack Bonus (11) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 11 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (8D6)] = (9D6, 31.5)
[Base Attack Bonus (11) – Two Weapon Fighting (2) + Flanking (2)] = 11 AB
[Short Sword (1D6) + Sneak Attack (8D6)] = (9D6, 31.5)


Now that's mainly just raw data, and critical hits will move damage ratios in different ways. There are tons of other factors to consider.

[Matthew]

Damage calculations:


+0 Damage Bonus


[Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

1.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 5.5 = 1,980) + (1 x 5.5 = 5.5) + (19 x 22 = 418)] = 2,403.5
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 6.5 = 2,340) + (1 x 6.5 = 6.5) + (19 x 19.5 = 370.5)] = 2,717
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (38 x 13 = 494)] = 2,717
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (57 x 11 = 627)] = 2,403.5

2.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 5.5 = 1,980) + (1 x 5.5 = 5.5) + (19 x 22 = 418)] = 2,403.5
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 6.5 = 2,340) + (1 x 6.5 = 6.5) + (19 x 19.5 = 370.5)] = 2,717
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (38 x 13 = 494)] = 2,717
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (57 x 11 = 627)] = 2,403.5

3.
1D10 20/x4 [(340 x 5.5 = 1,870) + (2 x 5.5 = 11) + (18 x 22 = 396)] = 2,277
1D12 20/x3 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (18 x 19.5 = 351)] = 2,574
1D12 19-20/x2 [(320 x 6.5 = 2,080) + (4 x 6.5 = 26) + (36 x 13 = 468)] = 2,574
1D10 18-20/x2 [(300 x 5.5 = 1,650) + (6 x 5.5 = 33) + (54 x 11 = 594)] = 2,277

4.
1D10 20/x4 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (17 x 22 = 374)] = 2,150.5
1D12 20/x3 [(320 x 6.5 = 2,080) + (3 x 6.5 = 19.5) + (17 x 19.5 = 331.5)] = 2,431
1D12 19-20/x2 [(300 x 6.5 = 1,950) + (6 x 6.5 = 39) + (34 x 13 = 442)] = 2,431
1D10 18-20/x2 [(280 x 5.5 = 1,540) + (9 x 5.5 = 49.5) + (51 x 11 = 561)] = 2,150.5

5.
1D10 20/x4 [(300 x 5.5 = 1,650) + (4 x 5.5 = 22) + (16 x 22 = 352)] = 2,024
1D12 20/x3 [(300 x 6.5 = 1,950) + (4 x 6.5 = 26) + (16 x 19.5 = 312)] = 2,288
1D12 19-20/x2 [(280 x 6.5 = 1,820) + (8 x 6.5 = 52) + (32 x 13 = 416)] = 2,288
1D10 18-20/x2 [(260 x 5.5 = 1,430) + (12 x 5.5 = 66) + (48 x 11 = 528)] = 2,024

6.
1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 5.5 = 1,540) + (5 x 5.5 = 27.5) + (15 x 22 = 330)] = 1,897.5
1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 6.5 = 1,820) + (5 x 6.5 = 32.5) + (15 x 19.5 = 292.5)] = 2,145
1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 6.5 = 1,690) + (10 x 6.5 = 65) + (30 x 13 = 390)] = 2,145
1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 5.5 = 1,320) + (15 x 5.5 = 82.5) + (45 x 11 = 495)] = 1,897.5

7.
1D10 20/x4 [(260 x 5.5 = 1,430) + (6 x 5.5 = 33) + (14 x 22 = 308)] = 1,771
1D12 20/x3 [(260 x 6.5 = 1,690) + (6 x 6.5 = 39) + (14 x 19.5 = 273)] = 2,002
1D12 19-20/x2 [(240 x 6.5 = 1,560) + (12 x 6.5 = 78) + (28 x 13 = 364)] = 2,002
1D10 18-20/x2 [(220 x 5.5 = 1,210) + (18 x 5.5 = 99) + (42 x 11 = 462)] = 1,771

8.
1D10 20/x4 [(240 x 5.5 = 1,320) + (7 x 5.5 = 38.5) + (13 x 22 = 286)] = 1644.5
1D12 20/x3 [(240 x 6.5 = 1,560) + (7 x 6.5 = 45.5) + (13 x 19.5 = 253.5)] = 1,859
1D12 19-20/x2 [(220 x 6.5 = 1,430) + (14 x 6.5 = 91) + (26 x 13 = 338)] = 1,859
1D10 18-20/x2 [(200 x 5.5 = 1,100) + (21 x 5.5 = 115.5) + (39 x 11 = 429)] = 1,644.5

9.
1D10 20/x4 [(220 x 5.5 = 1,210) + (8 x 5.5 = 44) + (12 x 22 = 264)] = 1,518
1D12 20/x3 [(220 x 6.5 = 1,430) + (8 x 6.5 = 52) + (12 x 19.5 = 234)] = 1,716
1D12 19-20/x2 [(200 x 6.5 = 1,300) + (16 x 6.5 = 104) + (24 x 13 = 312)] = 1,716
1D10 18-20/x2 [(180 x 5.5 = 990) + (24 x 5.5 = 132) + (36 x 11 = 396)] = 1,518

10.
1D10 20/x4 [(200 x 5.5 = 1,100) + (9 x 5.5 = 49.5) + (11 x 22 = 242)] = 1,391.5
1D12 20/x3 [(200 x 6.5 = 1,300) + (9 x 6.5 = 58.5) + (11 x 19.5 = 214.5)] = 1,573
1D12 19-20/x2 [(180 x 6.5 = 1,170) + (18 x 6.5 = 117) + (22 x 13 = 286)] = 1,573
1D10 18-20/x2 [(160 x 5.5 = 880) + (27 x 5.5 = 148.5) + (33 x 11 = 363)] = 1,391.5

11.
1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 5.5 = 990) + (10 x 5.5 = 55) + (10 x 22 = 220)] = 1,265
1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 6.5 = 1170) + (10 x 6.5 = 65) + (10 x 19.5 = 195)] = 1,430
1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 6.5 = 1040) + (20 x 6.5 = 130) + (20 x 13 = 260)] = 1,430
1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 5.5 = 770) + (30 x 5.5 = 165) + (30 x 11 = 330)] = 1,265

12.
1D10 20/x4 [(160 x 5.5 = 880) + (11 x 5.5 = 60.5) + (9 x 22 = 198)] = 1,138.5
1D12 20/x3 [(160 x 6.5 = 1,040) + (11 x 6.5 = 71.5) + (9 x 19.5 = 175.5)] = 1,287
1D12 19-20/x2 [(140 x 6.5 = 910) + (22 x 6.5 = 143) + (18 x 13 = 234)] = 1,287
1D10 18-20/x2 [(120 x 5.5 = 660) + (33 x 5.5 = 181.5) + (27 x 11 = 297)] = 1138.5

13.
1D10 20/x4 [(140 x 5.5 = 770) + (12 x 5.5 = 66) + (8 x 22 = 176)] = 1,012
1D12 20/x3 [(140 x 6.5 = 910) + (12 x 6.5 = 78) + (8 x 19.5 = 156)] = 1,144
1D12 19-20/x2 [(120 x 6.5 = 780) + (24 x 6.5 = 156) + (16 x 13 = 208)] = 1,144
1D10 18-20/x2 [(100 x 5.5 = 550) + (36 x 5.5 = 198) + (24 x 11 = 264)] = 1,012

14.
1D10 20/x4 [(120 x 5.5 = 660) + (13 x 5.5 = 71.5) + (7 x 22 = 154)] = 885.5
1D12 20/x3 [(120 x 6.5 = 780) + (13 x 6.5 = 84.5) + (7 x 19.5 = 136.5)] = 1,001
1D12 19-20/x2 [(100 x 6.5 = 650) + (26 x 6.5 = 169) + (14 x 13 = 182)] = 1,001
1D10 18-20/x2 [(80 x 5.5 = 440) + (39 x 5.5 = 214.5) + (21 x 11 = 231)] = 885.5

15.
1D10 20/x4 [(100 x 5.5 = 550) + (14 x 5.5 = 77) + (6 x 22 = 132)] = 759
1D12 20/x3 [(100 x 6.5 = 650) + (14 x 6.5 = 91) + (6 x 19.5 = 117)] = 858
1D12 19-20/x2 [(80 x 6.5 = 520) + (28 x 6.5 = 182) + (12 x 13 = 156)] = 858
1D10 18-20/x2 [(60 x 5.5 = 330) + (42 x 5.5 = 231) + (18 x 11 = 198)] = 759

16.
1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 5.5 = 440) + (15 x 5.5 = 82.5) + (5 x 22 = 110)] = 632.5
1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 6.5 = 520) + (15 x 6.5 = 97.5) + (5 x 19.5 = 97.5)] = 715
1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 6.5 = 390) + (30 x 6.5 = 195) + (10 x 13 = 130)] = 715
1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 5.5 = 220) + (45 x 5.5 = 247.5) + (15 x 11 = 165)] = 632.5

17.
1D10 20/x4 [(60 x 5.5 = 330) + (16 x 5.5 = 88) + (4 x 22 = 88)] = 506
1D12 20/x3 [(60 x 6.5 = 390) + (16 x 6.5 = 104) + (4 x 19.5 = 78)] = 572
1D12 19-20/x2 [(40 x 6.5 = 260) + (32 x 6.5 = 208) + (8 x 13 = 104)] = 572
1D10 18-20/x2 [(20 x 5.5 = 110) + (48 x 5.5 = 264) + (12 x 11 = 132)] = 506

18.
1D10 20/x4 [(40 x 5.5 = 220) + (17 x 5.5 = 93.5) + (3 x 22 = 66)] = 379.5
1D12 20/x3 [(40 x 6.5 = 260) + (17 x 6.5 = 110.5) + (3 x 19.5 = 58.5)] = 429
1D12 19-20/x2 [(20 x 6.5 = 130) + (34 x 6.5 = 221) + (6 x 13 = 78)] = 429
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (51 x 5.5 = 280.5) + (9 x 11 = 99)] = 379.5

19.
1D10 20/x4 [(20 x 5.5 = 110) + (18 x 5.5 = 99) + (2 x 22 = 44)] = 253
1D12 20/x3 [(20 x 6.5 = 130) + (18 x 6.5 = 117) + (2 x 19.5 = 39)] = 286
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (36 x 6.5 = 234) + (4 x 13 = 52)] = 286
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (36 x 5.5 = 198) + (4 x 11 = 44)] = 242

20.
1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (19 x 5.5 = 104.5) + (1 x 22 = 22)] = 126.5
1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (19 x 6.5 = 123.5) + (1 x 19.5 = 19.5)] = 143
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (19 x 6.5 = 123.5) + (1 x 13 = 13)] = 136.5
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (19 x 5.5 = 104.5) + (1 x 11 = 11)] = 115.5


Average Damage = (126.5 x 209 =26,438.5) / (8,000) = 3.3048125
Average Damage = (143 x 209 = 29,887) / (8,000) = 3.735875
Average Damage = 136.5 + (143 x 208 =) / (8,000) = 3.7350625
Average Damage = 115.5 + 242 + (126.5 x 206 = ) / 8,000 = 3.3020625
+10 Damage Bonus


[Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

1.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 15.5 = 5580) + (0 x 15.5 = 0) + (20 x 62 = 1240)] = 6,820
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 16.5 = 5940) + (0 x 16.5 = 0) + (20 x 49.5 = 990)] = 6,930
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 16.5 = 5610) + (0 x 16.5 = 0) + (40 x 33 = 1320)] = 6,930
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 15.5 = 4960) + (0 x 15.5 = 0) + (60 x 31 = 1860)] = 6,820

2.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 15.5 = 5580) + (1 x 15.5 = 15.5) + (19 x 62 = 1178)] = 6,773.5
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 16.5 = 5940) + (1 x 16.5 = 16.5) + (19 x 49.5 = 940.5)] = 6,897
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 16.5 = 5610) + (2 x 16.5 = 33) + (38 x 33 = 1254)] = 6,897
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 15.5 = 4960) + (3 x 15.5 = 46.5) + (57 x 31 = 1767)] = 6,773.5

3.
1D10 20/x4 [(340 x 5.5 = ) + (2 x 5.5 = ) + (18 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(340 x 6.5 = ) + (2 x 6.5 = ) + (18 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(320 x 6.5 = ) + (4 x 6.5 = ) + (36 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(300 x 5.5 = ) + (6 x 5.5 = ) + (54 x 11 = )] =

4.
1D10 20/x4 [(320 x 5.5 = ) + (3 x 5.5 = ) + (17 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(320 x 6.5 = ) + (3 x 6.5 = ) + (17 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(300 x 6.5 = ) + (6 x 6.5 = ) + (34 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(280 x 5.5 = ) + (9 x 5.5 = ) + (51 x 11 = )] =

5.
1D10 20/x4 [(300 x 5.5 = ) + (4 x 5.5 = ) + (16 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(300 x 6.5 = ) + (4 x 6.5 = ) + (16 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(280 x 6.5 = ) + (8 x 6.5 = ) + (32 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(260 x 5.5 = ) + (12 x 5.5 = ) + (48 x 11 = )] =

6.
1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 15.5 = 4340) + (5 x 15.5 = 77.5) + (15 x 62 = 930)] = 5,347.5
1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 16.5 = 4620) + (5 x 16.5 = 82.5) + (15 x 49.5 = 742.5)] = 5,445
1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 16.5 = 4290) + (10 x 16.5 = 165) + (30 x 33 = 990)] = 5,445
1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 15.5 = 3720) + (15 x 15.5 = 232.5) + (45 x 31 = 1395)] = 5,347.5

7.
1D10 20/x4 [(260 x 5.5 = ) + (6 x 5.5 = ) + (14 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(260 x 6.5 = ) + (6 x 6.5 = ) + (14 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(240 x 6.5 = ) + (12 x 6.5 = ) + (28 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(220 x 5.5 = ) + (18 x 5.5 = ) + (42 x 11 = )] =

8.
1D10 20/x4 [(240 x 5.5 = ) + (7 x 5.5 = ) + (13 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(240 x 6.5 = ) + (7 x 6.5 = ) + (13 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(220 x 6.5 = ) + (14 x 6.5 = ) + (26 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(200 x 5.5 = ) + (21 x 5.5 = ) + (39 x 11 = )] =

9.
1D10 20/x4 [(220 x 5.5 = ) + (8 x 5.5 = ) + (12 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(220 x 6.5 = ) + (8 x 6.5 = ) + (12 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(200 x 6.5 = ) + (16 x 6.5 = ) + (24 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(180 x 5.5 = ) + (24 x 5.5 = ) + (36 x 11 = )] =

10.
1D10 20/x4 [(200 x 5.5 = ) + (9 x 5.5 = ) + (11 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(200 x 6.5 = ) + (9 x 6.5 = ) + (11 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(180 x 6.5 = ) + (18 x 6.5 = ) + (22 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(160 x 5.5 = ) + (27 x 5.5 = ) + (33 x 11 = )] =

11.

1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 15.5 = 2790) + (10 x 15.5 = 155) + (10 x 62 = 620)] = 3,565
1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 16.5 = 2970) + (10 x 16.5 = 165) + (10 x 49.5 = 495)] = 3,630
1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 16.5 = 2640) + (20 x 16.5 = 330) + (20 x 33 = 660)] = 3,630
1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 15.5 = 2170) + (30 x 15.5 = 465) + (30 x 31 = 930)] = 3,565

12.
1D10 20/x4 [(160 x 5.5 = ) + (11 x 5.5 = ) + (9 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(160 x 6.5 = ) + (11 x 6.5 = ) + (9 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(140 x 6.5 = ) + (22 x 6.5 = ) + (18 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(120 x 5.5 = ) + (33 x 5.5 = ) + (27 x 11 = )] =

13.
1D10 20/x4 [(140 x 5.5 = ) + (12 x 5.5 = ) + (8 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(140 x 6.5 = ) + (12 x 6.5 = ) + (8 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(120 x 6.5 = ) + (24 x 6.5 = ) + (16 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(100 x 5.5 = ) + (36 x 5.5 = ) + (24 x 11 = )] =

14.
1D10 20/x4 [(120 x 5.5 = ) + (13 x 5.5 = ) + (7 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(120 x 6.5 = ) + (13 x 6.5 = ) + (7 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(100 x 6.5 = ) + (26 x 6.5 = ) + (14 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(80 x 5.5 = ) + (39 x 5.5 = ) + (21 x 11 = )] =

15.
1D10 20/x4 [(100 x 5.5 = ) + (14 x 5.5 = ) + (6 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(100 x 6.5 = ) + (14 x 6.5 = ) + (6 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(80 x 6.5 = ) + (28 x 6.5 = ) + (12 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(60 x 5.5 = ) + (42 x 5.5 = ) + (18 x 11 = )] =

16.
1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 15.5 = 1240) + (15 x 15.5 = 232.5) + (5 x 62 = 310)] = 1,782.5
1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 16.5 = 1320) + (15 x 16.5 = 247.5) + (5 x 49.5 = 247.5)] = 1,815
1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 16.5 = 990) + (30 x 16.5 = 495) + (10 x 33 = 330)] = 1,815
1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 15.5 = 620) + (45 x 15.5 = 697.5) + (15 x 31 = 465)] = 1,782.5

17.
1D10 20/x4 [(60 x 5.5 = ) + (16 x 5.5 = ) + (4 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(60 x 6.5 = ) + (16 x 6.5 = ) + (4 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(40 x 6.5 = ) + (32 x 6.5 = ) + (8 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(20 x 5.5 = ) + (48 x 5.5 = ) + (12 x 11 = )] =

18.
1D10 20/x4 [(40 x 5.5 = ) + (17 x 5.5 = ) + (6 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(40 x 6.5 = ) + (17 x 6.5 = ) + (6 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(20 x 6.5 = ) + (34 x 6.5 = ) + (12 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = ) + (51 x 5.5 = ) + (9 x 11 = )] =

19.
1D10 20/x4 [(20 x 5.5 = ) + (18 x 5.5 = ) + (2 x 22 = )] =
1D12 20/x3 [(20 x 6.5 = ) + (18 x 6.5 = ) + (2 x 19.5 = )] =
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = ) + (36 x 6.5 = ) + (4 x 13 = )] =
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = ) + (36 x 5.5 = ) + (4 x 11 = )] =

20.
1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 15.5 = 0) + (19 x 15.5 = 294.5) + (1 x 62 = 62)] = 356.5
1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 16.5 = 0) + (19 x 16.5 = 313.5) + (1 x 49.5 = 49.5)] = 363
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 16.5 = 0) + (19 x 16.5 = 313.5) + (1 x 33 = 33)] = 346.5
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 15.5 = 0) + (19 x 15.5 = 294.5) + (1 x 31 = 31)] = 325.5


(356.5 x 209 = ) / (8,000) =
(363 x 209 = ) / (8,000) =
346.5 + (363 x 208 = ) / (8,000) =
325.5 + X + (356.5 x 206 = ) / 8,000 =

 
+20 Damage Bonus


[Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

1.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 25.5 = 9180) + (0 x 25.5 = 0) + (20 x 102 = 2040)] = 11,220
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 26.5 = 9540) + (0 x 26.5 = 0) + (20 x 79.5 = 1590)] = 11,130
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 26.5 = 9010) + (0 x 26.5 = 0) + (40 x 53 = 2120)] = 11,130
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 25.5 = 8160) + (0 x 25.5 = 0) + (60 x 51 = 3060)] = 11,220

2.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 25.5 = 9180) + (1 x 25.5 = 25.5) + (19 x 102 = 1938)] = 11,143.5
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 26.5 = 9540) + (1 x 26.5 = 26.5) + (19 x 79.5 = 1510.5)] = 11,077
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 26.5 = 9010) + (2 x 26.5 = 53) + (38 x 53 = 2014)] = 11,077
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 25.5 = 8160) + (3 x 25.5 = 76.5) + (57 x 51 = 2907)] = 11,143.5

6.
1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 25.5 = 7140) + (5 x 25.5 = 127.5) + (15 x 102 = 1530)] = 8,797.5
1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 26.5 = 7420) + (5 x 26.5 = 132.5) + (15 x 79.5 = 1192.5)] = 8,745
1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 26.5 = 6890) + (10 x 26.5 = 265) + (30 x 53 = 1590)] = 8,745
1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 25.5 = 6120) + (15 x 25.5 = 382.5) + (45 x 51 = 2295)] = 8,797.5

11.
2D4 20/x4 [(180 x 25 = 4500) + (10 x 25 = 250) + (10 x 100 = 1000)] = 5,750
1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 25.5 = 4590) + (10 x 25.5 = 255) + (10 x 102 = 1020)] = 5,865
1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 26.5 = 4770) + (10 x 26.5 = 265) + (10 x 79.5 = 795)] = 5,830
1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 26.5 = 4240) + (20 x 26.5 = 530) + (20 x 53 = 1060)] = 5,830
1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 25.5 = 3570) + (30 x 25.5 = 765) + (30 x 51 = 1530)] = 5,865
2D4 18-20/x2 [(140 x 25 = 3500) + (30 x 25 = 750) + (30 x 50 = 1500)] = 5,750

16.
1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 25.5 = 2040) + (15 x 25.5 = 382.5) + (5 x 102 = 510)] = 2,932.5
1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 26.5 = 2120) + (15 x 26.5 = 397.5) + (5 x 79.5 = 397.5)] = 2,915
1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 26.5 = 1590) + (30 x 26.5 = 795) + (10 x 53 = 530)] = 2,915
1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 25.5 = 1020) + (45 x 25.5 = 1147.5) + (15 x 51 = 765)] = 2,932.5

20.
1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 25.5 = 0) + (19 x 25.5 = 484.5) + (1 x 102 = 102)] = 586.5
1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 26.5 = 0) + (19 x 26.5 = 503.5) + (1 x 79.5 = 79.5)] = 583
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 26.5 = 0) + (19 x 26.5 = 503.5) + (1 x 53 = 53)] = 556.5
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 25.5 = 0) + (19 x 25.5 = 484.5) + (1 x 51 = 51)] = 535.5


+30 Damage Bonus


[Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

1.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 35.5 = 12,780) + (0 x 35.5 = 0) + (20 x 142 = 2,840)] = 15,620
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 36.5 = 13,140) + (0 x 36.5 = 0) + (20 x 109.5 = 2,190)] = 15,330
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 36.5 = 12,410) + (0 x 36.5 = 0) + (40 x 73 = 2,920)] = 15,330
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 35.5 = 11,360) + (0 x 35.5 = 0) + (60 x 71 = 4,260)] = 15,620

2.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 35.5 = 12,780) + (1 x 35.5 = 35.5) + (19 x 142 = 2,698)] = 15,513.5
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 36.5 = 13,140) + (1 x 36.5 = 36.5) + (19 x 109.5 = 2,080.5)] = 15,257
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 36.5 = 12,410) + (2 x 36.5 = 73) + (38 x 73 = 2,774)] = 15,257
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 35.5 = 11,360) + (3 x 35.5 = 106.5) + (57 x 71 = 4,047)] = 15,513.5

6.
1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 35.5 = 9,940) + (5 x 35.5 = 177.5) + (15 x 142 = 2,130)] = 12,247.5
1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 36.5 = 10,220) + (5 x 36.5 = 182.5) + (15 x 109.5 = 1,642.5)] = 12,045
1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 36.5 = 9,490) + (10 x 36.5 = 365) + (30 x 73 = 2,190)] = 12,045
1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 35.5 = 8,520) + (15 x 35.5 = 532.5) + (45 x 71 = 3,195)] = 12,247.5

11.
2D4 20/x4 [(180 x 35 = 6,300) + (10 x 35 = 350) + (10 x 140 = 1,400)] = 8,050
1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 35.5 = 6,390) + (10 x 35.5 = 355) + (10 x 142 = 1,420)] = 8,165
1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 36.5 = 6,570) + (10 x 36.5 = 365) + (10 x 109.5 = 1,095)] = 8030
1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 36.5 = 5,840) + (20 x 36.5 = 730) + (20 x 73 = 1,460)] = 8030
1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 35.5 = 4,970) + (30 x 35.5 = 1065) + (30 x 71 = 2,130)] = 8,165
2D4 18-20/x2 [(140 x 35 = 4,900) + (30 x 35 = 1050) + (30 x 70 = 2,100)] = 8,050

16.
1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 35.5 = 2,840) + (15 x 35.5 = 532.5) + (5 x 142 = 710)] = 4,082.5
1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 36.5 = 2,920) + (15 x 36.5 = 547.5) + (5 x 109.5 = 547.5)] = 4,015
1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 36.5 = 2,190) + (30 x 36.5 = 1095) + (10 x 73 = 730)] = 4,015
1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 35.5 = 1,420) + (45 x 35.5 = 1,597.5) + (15 x 71 = 1,065)] = 4,082.5

20.
1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 35.5 = 0) + (19 x 35.5 = 674.5) + (1 x 142 = 142)] = 816.5
1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 36.5 = 0) + (19 x 36.5 = 693.5) + (1 x 109.5 = 109.5)] = 803
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 36.5 = 0) + (19 x 36.5 = 693.5) + (1 x 73 = 73)] = 766.5
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 35.5 = 0) + (19 x 35.5 = 674.5) + (1 x 71 = 71)] = 745.5


(816.5 x 209 = ) / (8,000) = 21.3310625
(803 x 209 = ) / (8,000) = 20.978375
766.5 + (803 x 208 = ) / (8,000) = 20.9738125
745.5 + X + (816.5 x 206 = ) / 8,000 =


+40 Damage Bonus


[Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

1.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 45.5 = 16,380) + (0 x 45.5 = 0) + (20 x 182 = 3,640)] = 20,020
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 46.5 = 16,740) + (0 x 46.5 = 0) + (20 x 139.5 = 2,790)] = 19,530
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 46.5 = 15,810) + (0 x 46.5 = 0) + (40 x 93 = 3,720)] = 19,530
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 45.5 = 14,560) + (0 x 45.5 = 0) + (60 x 91 = 5,460)] = 20,020

2.
1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 45.5 = 16,380) + (1 x 45.5 = 45.5) + (19 x 182 = 3,458)] = 19,883.5
1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 46.5 = 16,740) + (1 x 46.5 = 46.5) + (19 x 139.5 = 2,650.5)] = 19,437
1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 46.5 = 15,810) + (2 x 46.5 = 93) + (38 x 93 = 3,534)] = 19,437
1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 45.5 = 14,560) + (3 x 45.5 = 136.5) + (57 x 91 = 5,187)] = 19,883.5

6.
1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 45.5 = 12,740) + (5 x 45.5 = 227.5) + (15 x 182 = 2,730)] = 15,697.5
1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 46.5 = 13,020) + (5 x 46.5 = 232.5) + (15 x 139.5 = 2.092.5)] = 15,345
1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 46.5 = 12,090) + (10 x 46.5 = 465) + (30 x 93 = 2,790)] = 15,345
1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 45.5 = 10,920) + (15 x 45.5 = 682.5) + (45 x 91 = 4,095)] = 15,697.5

11.
1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 45.5 = 8,190) + (10 x 45.5 = 455) + (10 x 182 = 1,820)] = 10,465
1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 46.5 = 8,370) + (10 x 46.5 = 465) + (10 x 139.5 = 1,395)] = 10,230
1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 46.5 = 7,440) + (20 x 46.5 = 930) + (20 x 93 = 1,860)] = 10,230
1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 45.5 = 6,370) + (30 x 45.5 = 1,365) + (30 x 91 = 2,730)] = 10,465

16.
1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 45.5 = 3,640) + (15 x 45.5 = 682.5) + (5 x 182 = 910)] = 5,232.5
1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 46.5 = 3,720) + (15 x 46.5 = 697.5) + (5 x 139.5 = 697.5)] = 5,115
1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 46.5 = 2,790) + (30 x 46.5 = 1,395) + (10 x 93 = 930)] = 5,115
1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 45.5 = 1,820) + (45 x 45.5 = 2047.5) + (15 x 91 = 1,365)] = 5,232.5

20.
1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 45.5 = 0) + (19 x 45.5 = 864.5) + (1 x 182 = 182)] = 1,046.5
1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 46.5 = 0) + (19 x 46.5 = 883.5) + (1 x 139.5 = 139.5)] = 1,023
1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 46.5 = 0) + (19 x 46.5 = 883.5) + (1 x 93 = 93)] = 976.5
1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 45.5 = 0) + (19 x 45.5 = 864.5) + (1 x 91 = 91)] = 955.5

[Charity]

Damage comparison deja vu!

Soon I will not have to see another rehash of this debate, ssoooon.

I'm not too keen on Pathfinders fixes, most of which I reckon have had (often better) houserule fixes to bog standard 3.5, I don't see that it offers all that much... but heck I like 4e so what do I know eh?

I suspect this will last long enough to cash in on all the 3.5 faithful; a year or two and then Piazo will move wholesale over to 4e support as that will be where da monies at.
I'm not having a go at Piazo for taking this course; it is sound niche marketing but I'll gamble money on the punter enthusiasm for it being fairly short lived. Soon they'll just have diehard Grognards akin to you Matt :smallbiggrin:
Though the good folk over at Enworld seem quite keen (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=222643), well good luck to them.

[Iku Rex]

... Two Handed Power Attack is better than every other combat style going beyond level 3 or 4. ...

I never said Power Attack was a combat style.Sure...

I said that it favours the combat styles to different degrees.How is that a problem with Power Attack?


Tell you what, though, here's some of the Math:
What is the point of this math? What is the conclusion? As far as I can tell it's incomplete, lacking explanation, and unnecessarily complicated.

[Matthew]

Sure...

Consider quoting in context:



Two Handed Power Attack is better than every other combat style going beyond level 3 or 4. I don't know whether it's worth rehashing all the arguments here, but it would be nice if the three combat styles [i.e. Weapon and Shield, Two Handed Fighting and Two Weapon Fighting] were balanced in terms of Feat investment and effectiveness.

If I wasn't entirely clear, the point was 'Two Handed Style' in combination with 'Power Attack' is the best style going.



How is that a problem with Power Attack?

What is the point of this math? What is the conclusion? As far as I can tell it's incomplete, lacking explanation, and unnecessarily complicated.

The math is only a starting point for discussion. Instead of waving adjectives around, consider actually engaging the data.

Seriously, though, if you just want to pick a fight over this, look somewhere else. I'm not interested in rehashing this stuff. You might want to do a thread search and read up on the various arguments or else start a new thread about it.



Soon they'll just have diehard Grognards akin to you Matt :smallbiggrin:

You can talk, Charity. Aren't you still playing D20 1.0? :smallwink:

[Iku Rex]

Woah! Did anyone else see this? Paizo is dropping the Pathfinder RPG project!! http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9l3h (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)
Happy April fools people, paizo would never do that 'cause they rock just like rick!RickRoll. Keep the spam out of the regular threads please.

[Iku Rex]

The math is only a starting point for discussion. Instead of waving adjectives around, consider actually engaging the data.I have "engaged the data". I found it to be pointless, incomplete, lacking explanation, and unnecessarily complicated. But hey - I could be wrong. I'm asking you to explain it.

What does it show about Power Attack Matthew?

[Matthew]

The up and down of it is that the gap between the fighting styles only increases as the levels get higher and that Power Attack in it's current form contributes to this in no mean way with it's 2:1 bonus for Two Handed Fighting.

All that Path Finder has so far done (as far as I can see) is reduce the caps on Power Attack from being based on BAB to being based on Strength (which has about halved the maximum).

The +1/+2 AC derived from using a Shield needs to be balanced against the benefits of a Two Handed Weapon from the get go [i.e. before Feats are considered]. If a feat like Power Attack is introduced, there needs to be a similar advantage for using another fighting style or else Power Attack needs to work the same for all fighting styles.

That is to say, a player should get balanced results from whichever style he chooses and have the option of taking feats that will augment those styles either a) equally or b) individually/specifically to the same degree.

So, for every feat that favours two handed fighting over other styles, there should be a feat of equal power for each other fighting style that favours it over two handed fighting.


The second data set shows how bonus damage can interact with average probabilities and critical hits. The up and down of that, is that critical hits are not balanced against base damage; they have a 'break point'.

These are interelated problems that have been identified in the game rules (and not by me, I only seek to explain them at as basic a level of math as possible, which necessitates showing the working) and which Power Attack is capable of exaggerating.

Of course, all of the above assumes that you want balanced options. If that is not desired, well then there's nothing to worry about.