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RTGoodman
2008-03-23, 01:18 AM
I'm joining a new gaming group starting Tuesday, and I've decided to roll up a Human Crusader. I've never played with Tome of Battle before, so I don't really know what to look for in feats, maneuvers, and stances.

We're starting at 6th level, and I think we're running the Savage Tides adventure path, but I don't know about the campaign setting or anything else. The rest of the party is (I think) Warblade, Cleric, Wizard, and either Ninja or Rogue. I'm trying to get a good mix of maneuvers, so I tried to get some party-buff type stuff but also more damaging maneuvers. So far, this is what I have (including switching out lower-level maneuvers for better ones at 4th and 6th levels):

Maneuvers:
1st - Leading the Attack, Stone Bones, Vanguard Strike
2nd - Tactical Strike, Stone Vice
3rd - Bonecrusher, Revitalizing Strike

Stances: Martial Spirit, Iron Guard's Glare
Feats: Adaptive Style, Power Attack, and two undecided feats.


What other feats should I look into? I thought about Leap Attack, but I've already done a charge-based Fighter and thought about doing something new. Any suggestions? Anything Core is allowed, and anything by Wizards (including Dragon) is fine if my new DM okays it first.

Also, how does that selection of maneuvers and stances look? I've been trying to figure out if there are better ones, but none of the other ones available to Crusaders really seemed to jump out at me for those lower levels.

Finally, any general tips on playing a Crusader (or a martial adept in general)? I assume I need some Str, Con, and Cha, but how important are the other abilities? What sorts of gear should I look for in particular?

Xefas
2008-03-23, 01:26 AM
I suggest Extra Granted Maneuver for one of your open feats. Having that extra versatility at every refresh (and the beginning of the fight) is nice.

Other than that, it depends on whether you want to be more survivey or more smashy. If you want to be the immovable block, then Vital Recovery for the other feat and Stone Power instead of Power Attack will do the trick. For smashing...honestly, I have no idea.

serow
2008-03-23, 08:50 AM
I'd suggest taking your first level as Crusader, then multiclassing 2 levels of Fighter for 2 feats, then continuing on as Crusader.

Your Initiator level is "[Chara level]-1", which is just right to get the next level of stances with the Crusader's stance progression, since your Crusader level is now "[Chara level]-2".

Adaptive Style is better replaced with Extra Granted Maneuver.

Chronicled
2008-03-23, 08:54 AM
Extra Granted Maneuver, Power Attack, and Stone Power are all top-notch Crusader feats. I like something like Improved Bull Rush or Cleave if I've got another.

sonofzeal
2008-03-23, 08:59 AM
Str + Con + Cha, in any order, is about all you need. Beyond that, "Extra Granted Maneuver" is a no-brainer.

As for stances, Martial Spirit + Iron Guard's Glare are what I went for on my first Crusader, and I haven't regretted it. Both are still useful at higher levels (especially if your DM lets you use Martial Spirit outside combat).

As for maneuvers, I'd try to get Crusader's Strike, then Revitalizing Strike. Your party lacks a good healer, so those might prevent TPK's. Beyond that, White Raven Tactics is a no-brainer when available. The rest you can probably figure out on your own.

namo
2008-03-23, 09:07 AM
White Raven Tactics is a must. Mountain Hammer is good ("wall ? what wall ?")

MeklorIlavator
2008-03-23, 09:51 AM
Try these posts on building a crusader.

RTGoodman
2008-03-23, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the replies!

I guess the maneuvers I went with seems okay, since no one blasted any of them. I was thinking of picking up either Mountain Hammer or White Raven Tactics at 7th level - is it worth it to go ahead and spend my 6th level feat on Martial Study to learn the other of them?

I'm thinking that I'll probably just go with Stone Power over Power Attack - extra HP sounds better than some extra damage, since I'll probably be using a greatsword and Stone Dragon damage-increasing maneuvers (plus furious counterstrike) anyway.

Here's a question - for some of the White Raven maneuvers (I'm looking specifically at White Raven Tactics, but others work), am I considered my own ally? Could I get in a full-attack or something, then use a swift action to give myself another turn right afterward with WRT? That seems like a good deal, considering I get one more granted maneuver each turn anyway, and if I'm almost out of maneuvers I can just use the new full-round action to use Adaptive Style and start over.

MeklorIlavator
2008-03-23, 12:48 PM
The most recent Faq said that you are not included when it says ally, but are when its allies. Of course, previous ones have said the complete opposite, so you might want to ask your DM.

tyckspoon
2008-03-23, 04:03 PM
You are usually considered your own ally; White Raven Tactics specifically has been errata'd/ruled to be different from the norm in order to prevent certain abuses. It's still one of the best maneuvers in the Tome, since you can still use it to let somebody else in your party go twice. Most of the rest of the party should be able to make at least as much use of that as you would.

Tokiko Mima
2008-03-23, 04:25 PM
I would also consider PrCing a lot with a Crusader. Their readied/granted manuevers advance at a snails pace, whereas the PrC rules allow you to gain another granted manuever everytime a PrC grants you another readied manuever.

Say for example you follow the path of Monk 1/Swordsage 2/Crusader 2/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/Master of Nine 5 and took the Extra granted Manuever feat. You'd be opening every combat up with 12 readied manevers, 10 of which would be granted. 3 rounds later all your manuevers would refresh themselves automatically, and so on. You'd also be able to pick up a couple higher level stances and manuevers as well, but that's beside the point.

Chronicled
2008-03-24, 01:03 AM
I'm thinking that I'll probably just go with Stone Power over Power Attack - extra HP sounds better than some extra damage, since I'll probably be using a greatsword and Stone Dragon damage-increasing maneuvers (plus furious counterstrike) anyway.

Getting both is not a bad idea. Stone Power can be used most of the time to minimize damage taken; Power Attack when your attack really needs to hurt. However, if you'd sooner take one, Stone Power is the better option, since maneuvers can add enough extra damage if they hit. If you have Shock Trooper, then Power Attack looks much better--normally, the reduced attack bonus could mean a slew of extra damage from a maneuver never hits.