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View Full Version : It's...the Sunder-rang!



Signmaker
2008-03-23, 03:10 PM
...No, it really isn't. Yet. That's where you wonderful people come in.

Create a build focused on ranged sundering. Sundering multiple times in one round is icing on the cake, but optional.

Consider 10th level, appropriate WBL, and 28 point buy to be your only current limitations.

LibraryOgre
2008-03-23, 03:19 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#sunder

"You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding."

Step 1: Find a way to ranged sunder.

Ascension
2008-03-23, 03:23 PM
Go Bloodstorm Blade. It's in the Tome of Battle. You get to throw any melee weapon, it automatically has the returning quality, and if you spend your swift action at the beginning of each turn you can treat all your thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks, so you won't even have to get the ranged sunder feat, you can just sunder with thrown weapons as if you're sundering with a melee weapon. Put nearly everything in strength and throw a two-handed weapon... since your thrown attacks count as melee attacks you use strength to determine your attack bonus, you get + 1.5 strength for two-handed weapon damage, and you can power attack.

By the fourth level in the prestige class your weapons are autoreturning instantly, and you can catch them as a free action, so you can full attack with a thrown weapon. By the fifth level (which you would be starting at) you can cause the weapon to ricochet back and forth between multiple enemies before returning to your hands. You also get to use Iron Heart strikes with thrown weapons.

The class even has some nifty secondary abilities, like the ability to change the focus of any feat that focuses on a single weapon type (weapon focus, specialization, etc.) every morning. So if you've focused on one weapon type and the DM gives you a nifty weapon of some other type in your loot, bingo, you can just shift your focus.

Bloodstorm Blade may very well be the most awesome prestige class ever created. You want it.

appending_doom
2008-03-23, 03:24 PM
Also, the Ranged Sunder feat from Complete Warrior.

Signmaker
2008-03-23, 03:24 PM
Complete Warrior, page 104?

AmberVael
2008-03-23, 03:25 PM
Ranged Sunder. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Ranged_Sunder,CW)

Signmaker
2008-03-23, 03:26 PM
Go Bloodstorm Blade. It's in the Tome of Battle. You get to throw any melee weapon, it automatically has the returning quality, and if you spend your swift action at the beginning of each turn you can treat all your thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks, so you won't even have to get the ranged sunder feat, you can just sunder with thrown weapons as if you're sundering with a melee weapon. Put nearly everything in strength and throw a two-handed weapon... since your thrown attacks count as melee attacks you use strength to determine your attack bonus, you get + 1.5 strength for two-handed weapon damage, and you can power attack.

By the fourth level in the prestige class your weapons are autoreturning instantly, and you can catch them as a free action, so you can full attack with a thrown weapon. By the fifth level (which you would be starting at) you can cause the weapon to ricochet back and forth between multiple enemies before returning to your hands. You also get to use Iron Heart strikes with thrown weapons.

The class even has some nifty secondary abilities, like the ability to change the focus of any feat that focuses on a single weapon type (weapon focus, specialization, etc.) every morning. So if you've focused on one weapon type and the DM gives you a nifty weapon of some other type in your loot, bingo, you can just shift your focus.

Bloodstorm Blade may very well be the most awesome prestige class ever created. You want it.


Great and all, except I'm afraid of delving in to Tome of Battle. Scary levels of awesome there.

NEO|Phyte
2008-03-23, 03:26 PM
Whatever the hell you want 5/Bloodstorm Blade 4/More whatever the hell you want 1

You'll need a strength and dex of at least 13 to qualify for the feats you will need, which are as follows:
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
Point-Blank Shot (needs to be taken as early as possible for PrC requirements)

Race can be whatever you want, weapon can be whatever you want, preferably a proper sundering weapon.

Strategy in combat:
Swift action to activate Thunderous Throw.
Full Attack, throwing your sundering weapon at things within 50 ft (100 ft if you grab Far Shot) to break them. As per Thunderous Throw, your ranged attacks with thrown weapons are treated as melee attacks, allowing you to sunder at no penalty (aside from range increment/cover ones). Lightning Ricochet allows your thrown weapon to return fast enough to full attack with. As long as you don't need your swift action for something else, you can do this all day long, even when a monk with an AMF item shows up and tries to kill your wizard.

:edit: I type slow, apparently

Signmaker
2008-03-23, 03:29 PM
It appears Bloodstorm Blade is in high favor around here.

Would Combat Brute be an effective follow-up, using the 'ranged=melee' conversion given by the PrC? Possibly even Deadly Concussion?

Overlord
2008-03-23, 03:34 PM
WOOOOH Ninjas!

I believe that, since the original poster did not specify thrown weapons, an archer build with Ranged Sunder would actually be the most efficient build.

Does the Arcane Archer's Imbue Arrow ability work with disintegrate? That would be a heck of a sunder attempt.

playswithfire
2008-03-23, 03:38 PM
Now with boomerang:
Fighter 4/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Master Thrower 1

1 EWP(Xen'drik boomerang)
F1 Point Blank Shot
H Precise Shot
F2 Focus(boomerang)
3 Power Attack
F4 Improved Sunder
6 Combat Brute
BB3 Boomerang Ricochet
9 Boomerang Daze

With sundering cleave and boomerang ricochet, you should get a decent number of attacks and following up a sunder with a daze seems like extra fun

LibraryOgre
2008-03-23, 03:45 PM
I would suggest Teleporting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#teleporting) over Returning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#returning); it can be blocked by things that forbid dimensional movement, but it can't be intercepted by those with a mind to, and it moves with you.

RTGoodman
2008-03-23, 03:47 PM
Question - with Quick Draw, the TWF chain, Power Attack, Oversized TWF, and whatever you need for Bloodstorm Blade, could you technically throw two two-handed weapons at a time, for something like 7 two-handed power-attacking ranged sunders?

Because that's ridiculous if it works.


EDIT: Bonus points for Goliath Greathammer and be a Half-Ogre (3d6 damage and bonuses to sunder from both size and weapon) and maybe even go into War Hulk for massive damage (and maybe their Massive Swing or whatever it's called ability - I didn't look it up to see if that works).

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-23, 04:08 PM
Allow me to play the obligatory part of Mr. Wizard Jerk.

Human Wizard 1/Anima Mage 9

Feats:
Familiar traded for: Extend Spell
Human Feat: Martial Study (Vanguard Strike)
Flaw: Precocious Apprentice
Flaw: Bind Vestige
lvl 1: Improved Bind Vestige
lvl 3: Chain Spell
lvl 6: Quicken Spell
lvl 9: Obtain Familiar?

Now you Bind as a 9th level Binder, which means 2 Vestiges. You can use Vestige Metamagic 3/day. So you Chain Shatter in your 5th level slots, and prepare Dispel Magic a few times.

Vestige Metamagic Chain your Dispel Magic, suppressing 10 of their items. Then Vestige Metamagic Quicken your Chained Shatter. Destroy everything.

Further things to do are: Be a level 10 Wizard. Be a level 9 Binder.

Use WBL to buy rods of Chaining and/or Quickening to do this more often.

Cast Chained Extended Dispel one round, then Chained Shatter the next.

Have a DM that has the Dispel effect wear off at the end of your next round.

Settle for Chain Dispelling and Shattering most of their items instead of all, apply nothing but Chain.

Wait one level, cast Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability and give it Shatter and a Rod of Chain. Then cast Dispel Magic, have it do the Shattering.

[/Obligatory Wizards Are Better Post]

FlyMolo
2008-03-23, 09:13 PM
Question - with Quick Draw, the TWF chain, Power Attack, Oversized TWF, and whatever you need for Bloodstorm Blade, could you technically throw two two-handed weapons at a time, for something like 7 two-handed power-attacking ranged sunders?

Because that's ridiculous if it works.


EDIT: Bonus points for Goliath Greathammer and be a Half-Ogre (3d6 damage and bonuses to sunder from both size and weapon) and maybe even go into War Hulk for massive damage (and maybe their Massive Swing or whatever it's called ability - I didn't look it up to see if that works).

That's just silly, now. I don't know if hulking hurler works with this build, but throwing 7 wagons at people? Win. Even better, take War Mind just for the Sweeping Strike and Great Cleave.

Now that's just silly. Throw a pair of great big swords, destroy a pair of weapons, use sweeping strike to kill the minion standing next to him, use great cleave to do it again. That's just ridiculous.

RTGoodman
2008-03-23, 09:44 PM
That's just silly, now. I don't know if hulking hurler works with this build, but throwing 7 wagons at people? Win. Even better, take War Mind just for the Sweeping Strike and Great Cleave.

Now that's just silly. Throw a pair of great big swords, destroy a pair of weapons, use sweeping strike to kill the minion standing next to him, use great cleave to do it again. That's just ridiculous.

War Mind works, too. I couldn't find that article that has the War Hulk online, but don't both it and the War Mind get essentially the same ability to hit stuff adjacent to their target? Also, I just added War Hulk in because of the huge Str boosts, but either one really works.

Of course, looking up the Sunder rules, it's just opposed attack rolls, not Str checks, so any class can really do it. Bigger characters (Large-sized and maybe Powerful Build races) get a bonus, though, so that would make them more effective.

Signmaker
2008-03-24, 09:15 AM
I will admit, sundering with giant swords of flying awesome is amazing.

Can we get some comparisons now?
For example, seeing what will break under these builds? (Preferably the hp dealing ones, and not the flying Shatter mage build)

Do remember that enhancements to Weapons, Shields, and Armor also increase its HP and Hardness.