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View Full Version : Is Robes of the Archmagi worth it?



Frosty
2008-03-23, 06:02 PM
I've a chance to craft one. Cost to craft is 3000 exp and 37,500 gold. Is it worth it to spend the resources needed to craft something that takes up the armor slot (I think?) and gives 5 armor, 18 SR (kinda worthless at high levels), +4 to all saves, +2 to overcome SR?

Would my money and resources be better spent elsewhere?

If you decided to increase the armor to +8, the SR to 21, and the saves to +5, how much should the price increase by?

Nohwl
2008-03-23, 06:06 PM
if you have nothing better to take up the slot its worth it.

Solo
2008-03-23, 06:17 PM
if you have nothing better to take up the slot its worth it.

Seconded. Not like you'll be short on wealth at higher levels, or have anything occupying that slot.

If you need more money, just beat up a dragon.

Frosty
2008-03-23, 06:17 PM
I'm thinking the SR really isn't worth it, given that the spellcasters that it'd work against is toast against me anyways. +5 armor bonus...I do better with a Greater Mage Armor. Bonuses to saves are always good, but I can get those cheaper from a cloak. +2 to penetrate SR...well, my main attakc spell is an Orb spell. I focus in Conjuration. Next.

Maybe I should just craft a Cloak of Resistance +5 or something. And add to it some other nifty abilities. Apparently Continuous Swift Flight is cheaper than Continuous Flight thansk to item creation rules. I can fly all day for 48k.

Nohwl
2008-03-23, 06:24 PM
craft the robe and buy the cloak. you can wear both at the same time.

tyckspoon
2008-03-23, 06:33 PM
The Robe is handy mostly for condensing a few magic item slots, IMO. If you're already comfortable using a spell for an AC bonus, you don't need the armor. If you don't have anything else you want in your cloak slot, you can just put a cloak of resistance there cheaper, and you don't need the resistance bonus. The SR is, as mentioned, pretty pointless.. I'd ask my DM if I could drop it entirely to get a discount on the Robe, meself.

I think an upgraded Robe would be..

Bracers of Armor +8 - Bracers +4.. 64-16 is 48..
Resistance +5 - Resistance +4.. 9..

Upgrading it while leaving the SR alone would make it 132,000 just based on the differences of the component items. I'm assuming any surcharge for making a combined item doesn't need to be re-figured; if it does, the official guidelines will make an upgraded Robe an excessively and uselessly expensive item.

And spell resistance doesn't follow a formula that I know of, but it's way overpriced. The Mantle of Spell Resistance costs more than the basic Robe for three points more benefit.. Ask your DM about a fair price for that (or a discount for dropping it) if you want it.

Frosty
2008-03-23, 07:06 PM
craft the robe and buy the cloak. you can wear both at the same time.

Aren't both of the Robes and Cloak Resistance bonuses to Saves?

Nohwl
2008-03-23, 07:33 PM
probably. i cant think of another robe that would give an armor bonus though.

LoneGamer
2008-03-23, 07:38 PM
Vest of the Archmagi (Magic Item Compendium) could be slot-swapped to a robe if you're creating it. It's way better than the classic Robe of the Archmagi.

nobodylovesyou4
2008-03-23, 07:39 PM
probably. i cant think of another robe that would give an armor bonus though.

impervious vestment:
+5 armor, and a wall of blades for a total of 18 rounds per day, only as a circle of blades though. costs 34k gold.

Dhavaer
2008-03-23, 07:39 PM
probably. i cant think of another robe that would give an armor bonus though.

There's one in, I think, the DMG2. Gives a +9 bonus to AC, and lets you cast blade barrier.

nobodylovesyou4
2008-03-23, 07:40 PM
Vest of the Archmagi (Magic Item Compendium) could be slot-swapped to a robe if you're creating it. It's way better than the classic Robe of the Archmagi.

sorry, double post:
doesnt it specifically say in that book that that vest doesnt actually exist?

Ponce
2008-03-23, 07:51 PM
In short, no.

AC Bonus: You can replicate this with (Greater) Mage Armor. A wizard or sorcerer of this level shouldn't be getting hit anyway.

SR: Useless. Compare this to the Cleric's Spell Resistance spell. The number just isn't high enough to have any impact at the level you are at, and it doesn't scale.

Saving Throw Bonus: Again, easily replicated if you really need it. As a full caster, you're better off with buffs that render you immune to important effects rather than relying on a saving throw. It is, however, somewhat better than the above qualities.

Overcoming SR: Not so hot. Something like Assay Resistance would do you better. If it has SR, you want to guarantee your ability to overcome it. A +2 bonus won't help much in this regard. Admittedly, this type of bonus is fairly unique among items, but its just not that great.

All in all, I think you can make much better use of the gold and experience points. I assume you are level 14, by the crafting requirements. There are many other kinds of robes in the MIC that would service you well without so many added unnecessary features expanding the cost. Assuming you are the same wizard as the one in your other thread about ranged touch attacks, I'd say you could do far better for yourself than this Robe.

If your ability to craft items isn't limited to some kind of situational opportunity to cast this one particular item, the case against making it is made even stronger, as you could craft many valuable items that would help you a lot more. I'm AFB right now, but even a quick peruse of any forum-posted arcane guide or just the SRD would yield a good haul. For example, an Orange Ioun stone by itself would probably be better than the robes.

Edit: There's a thread developing about Wizard items as we speak. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75753

LoneGamer
2008-03-23, 08:48 PM
sorry, double post:
doesnt it specifically say in that book that that vest doesnt actually exist?

The text suggests it's a joke item, yeah, but it could go either way. It is somewhat more powerful than what 200,000 GP should get you..

nobodylovesyou4
2008-03-23, 08:50 PM
funny story relating to that, i once played a pbp campaign where the entire goal was to find said vest. needless to say we never got that far, and got distracted along the way to boot, but it was still a pretty cool campaign idea.

Neftren
2008-03-23, 09:17 PM
I've found that this robe is particularly useful for getting around armor restrictions.

Frosty
2008-03-23, 09:29 PM
What immunity items should I look out for? I wonder how expensive something would be for me to be immune to negative levels...

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-23, 10:30 PM
1) No it isn't worth it. Cast Greater Mage Armor, get a Cloak, SR is useless, overcoming SR can be bought better then that too.

2) Don't buy Immunity Items. Cast Elemental Body Air and have the Cleric cast Deathward. You are now Immune to Death effects/Stunning/Poison/Crits/Precision damage/Disease/and some other crap. Oh and you also have a 60ft Perfect Fly speed that lasts hours per level.

So don't make an item of continuous Swift Flight. All Wizards above level 13 come with that as a class ability.

Chronos
2008-03-23, 10:33 PM
There's an armor enhancement somewhere that gives continual Death Ward, but I can never remember what it's called, nor where it's from. Book of Exalted Cheese, maybe?

Hawriel
2008-03-23, 10:45 PM
There is also a Vest of the Arch mage that can be worn in addition. I think its in one of the magic item books.

Cuddly
2008-03-24, 12:18 AM
I'm thinking the SR really isn't worth it, given that the spellcasters that it'd work against is toast against me anyways. +5 armor bonus...I do better with a Greater Mage Armor. Bonuses to saves are always good, but I can get those cheaper from a cloak. +2 to penetrate SR...well, my main attakc spell is an Orb spell. I focus in Conjuration. Next.

Maybe I should just craft a Cloak of Resistance +5 or something. And add to it some other nifty abilities. Apparently Continuous Swift Flight is cheaper than Continuous Flight thansk to item creation rules. I can fly all day for 48k.

You could also fly all day for 27k.

For death effects & the like, put soulfire on your mithral buckler. It's a +4 enhancement, though,

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 01:11 AM
There's an armor enhancement somewhere that gives continual Death Ward, but I can never remember what it's called, nor where it's from. Book of Exalted Cheese, maybe?

There's one that costs 900gp or something in the MIC (flat cost) but only prevents 1 a day.

There's also a much more expensive one somewhere else (based on the +X system, and X is probably 3 or greater)

Chronicled
2008-03-24, 01:20 AM
There's one that costs 900gp or something in the MIC (flat cost) but only prevents 1 a day.

There's also a much more expensive one somewhere else (based on the +X system, and X is probably 3 or greater)

That would be Death Ward, as a +1 enhancement. Lets you ignore any death effect or negative energy effect. Immediate action to use; but the Complete Arcane version automatically gets the first one for the day. Each has its own merits.

Frosty
2008-03-24, 11:29 AM
Most negative level spells are Rays right? Isn't there a spell in the SpC that gives immunity to Rays?

Draz74
2008-03-24, 11:40 AM
Robe of the Archmagi is probably worth it ...

For a high-level Sorcerer in a Core-only game with no custom items allowed.

ColdBrew
2008-03-24, 11:43 AM
Ray Deflection, but it's crap. You might as well ready an action to interrupt their casting.

Frosty
2008-03-24, 11:46 AM
Why is it crap? Can someone post the spell here? I thought it just gave blanket immunity to Rays for the duration of the spell?

Bayar
2008-03-24, 11:50 AM
As a great man once said:


This is a great item. The prices of the abilities provided for a single body slot is more than worth it.

plus, it is a body slot, while vest of the arch mage is a torso slot. So tehnically, you could wear them both.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 11:50 AM
Most negative level spells are Rays right? Isn't there a spell in the SpC that gives immunity to Rays?

Fully half of all spells that I know of that give negative levels are rays (IE I can think of two, one of them is a ray.)

But there are other sources of negative levels, like vampires punching you.

Also, and this is important, You should take Chain Spell. You should take Persistent spell and probably reach spell, or a rod of reach. You should get your Cleric friend to cast Deathward on someone, and you should chain that deathward across the whole party. Welcome to being an Incantatrix, the only reason to buy an item of +30 to Spellcraft.

Frosty
2008-03-24, 11:53 AM
Persistent won't work on Deathward correct? I do have chain spell.

Chronos
2008-03-24, 03:25 PM
Ah, found it. Soulfire armor enhancement, from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Continual Death Ward, no activation, no limited uses. It's a +4 equivalent, but worth it. Put that on your armor and Heavy Fortification on your shield, or vice versa, and use Magic Vestment to make up for the lack of plusses.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 03:56 PM
Persistent won't work on Deathward correct? I do have chain spell.

Yes it will, you just won't be able to chain it until after you use Reach spell on it first, so you'll have to stack metas on top of it. Use the Rods though and it should be fine. That and your +30 Spellcraft Item (or whatever you have at whatever level you are.)

Frosty
2008-03-24, 04:08 PM
AFAIK, you can only Persist Personal/fixed ranged spells. Touch is neither in my knowledge.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 04:34 PM
AFAIK, you can only Persist Personal/fixed ranged spells. Touch is neither in my knowledge.

Touch range is very fixed. It always stays the same.

Frosty
2008-03-24, 04:39 PM
That point is very much in contention.

ColdBrew
2008-03-24, 04:42 PM
Why is it crap? Can someone post the spell here? I thought it just gave blanket immunity to Rays for the duration of the spell?

You are correct! 4th level spell, min/lvl, blanket immunity to rays. I don't know what spell I was thinking of, then.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 04:49 PM
That point is very much in contention.

The point that touch range doesn't ever stop being touch range? Or someone is just trying to nerf Persistent as much as possible.

Of course either way, it doesn't matter, because like I said, you get a rod of reach spell for that and just make it a 30ft (fixed) range. Then you chain and Persist it.

Frosty
2008-03-24, 04:54 PM
Doesn't Reach spell make to Close (25 +5/2 levels) instead of straight 30 ft?

And yes, many people consider Persist to be overpowered, especially with DMM.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 05:17 PM
Doesn't Reach spell make to Close (25 +5/2 levels) instead of straight 30 ft?

No it makes it 30ft.


And yes, many people consider Persist to be overpowered, especially with DMM.

I didn't ask if people think it is too powerful, I know they do. But the jury isn't out on whether or not touch is fixed range. Yes, it is. Anything else is just someone attempting to Nerf Persist because they don't like it.

And if that's the DM cool, it's his campaign, but if that's another Player, make sure that your DM understands what is really being asked of him, and let him decide if it fits in the campaign.

Frosty
2008-03-24, 05:33 PM
Before a recent FAQ ruling, Touch Range was never considered valid for Persistent Spell. Even on the CharOp board. With the new ruling a lot of DMs still don't go it, so it does not apply for all games.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-24, 05:45 PM
Before a recent FAQ ruling, Touch Range was never considered valid for Persistent Spell. Even on the CharOp board. With the new ruling a lot of DMs still don't go it, so it does not apply for all games.

I don't really concern myself with what Char Op thinks about most things. Touch is a fixed range, that doesn't seem very controversial to me. I didn't even know there was a ruling. That said, I said ask you DM, but either way, they aren't going to reject it based on the rules, those are pretty obvious, they are going to reject it because they want to nerf Persist.

Emperor Tippy
2008-03-25, 01:42 AM
Before a recent FAQ ruling, Touch Range was never considered valid for Persistent Spell. Even on the CharOp board. With the new ruling a lot of DMs still don't go it, so it does not apply for all games.

Incorrect.

This is he history of persist and where all the problems come from.

3.0: Persist is first published in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. It is assumed to work on Touch Range spells and WotC gave a few examples of it working on touch range spells. WotC realized how powerful it was and issued an Errata specifically stating that it no longer works on Touch Range spells.

3.5: Persist is republished in both Complete Arcane and the Players Guide to Faerun. It's text is changed from that in FRCS and the errata is removed.

WotC considers Touch Range to be fixed, otherwise the 3.0 Errata would never have been necessary because if Touch Range wasn't fixed then persisting a touch range spell would have already been illegal.
------------

No matter how much people whine as it currently stands RAW for 3.5 D&D is that Touch Range spells can be persisted. Whether or not you can reach, chain, and then persist a touch range spell is unclear.