Help me beating this planetar!

[Bag_of_Holding]

Hi, I'm in this campaign where PCs are *the* only evil characters in the world. In this three-session campaign setting, the heavenly hosts finally triumphed over hell and abyss, bringing eternal... goodness to the material world and to people. All who allied themselves with devils and demons (and of course Yugoloths) were 'purged off' the world, with all kinds of angels, archons, eladrins and whatnots practically ruling the world.

The PCs consist of:

NE Half-elf Warblade/Fighter/Eternal Blade (can't remember the exact build, but ECL 16)

CE Human Wizard 16 (sorta Batman, I guess)

NE human Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Ur-priest 2/Mystic Thuerge 9 (that's me! Quite effective, let me tell ya)

and

LE changeling factotum 8/chameleon 8 (or something like that)


The aim of the campaign is to "liberate" a small city governed by a Planetar (LG, as on MM). So far we've been able to convince some of Chaotic-aligned factions (read: hippies) to cause civil unrest within the city, but that's about it.

Near the end of the session, we had an unpleasant surprise when our trusted halfling informant turned into a mighty planetar, one none other than the Governer himself! That's when the session ended, with that mad, hulking planetar with his +4 Holy Greatsword looking down upon us beginning to cast Holy Word.

What do we do?

So the problem is actually twofold:

1. We're caught flat-footed, with Holy Word spell coming upon us in the very beginning- meaning we're blinded and deafened for the first few rounds of combat
2. We used up at least half our resources before the encounter, so we can't exactly go nova on him.

Also, looking at the stat blocks from MM, it doesn't really give me any high hopes either. Plenty of at-will spell-like abilities including dispel magic and holy smite? Mass Charm Monster 3/day? And it doesn't help that he casts as 17th-level cleric either.

Does anyone else think planetar's a little overpowered for a semi-optimised party of 16th-level characters?

[Skjaldbakka]

Well, the obvious question is what spells does the wizard have prepared? If the answer is "teleport" and "we're not in a dimensional lock", then I might have a solution for you.

Otherwise, we really need more information. The Warblade should probably have Iron Heart Surge, which will throw off the effects of Holy Word.

Your spells known and spell slots left would also be useful to know.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Depending on the spells you have, these are your options:
Antimagic Field, everyone comes close enough to be within
There is no way a Planetar can overcome even a single character of 16th level with only nonmagical attacks in less than 10 rounds. Just wait the blindness/deafness out.
Mass Heal
If you have it, it auto-purges the Blindness/Deafness to the entire party.
Celerity
If you have it, it doubles the amount of actions you can take in that first round.
Blasphemy
The Planetar is auto-dazed if you succeed against its SR. Gives you a round to think what to do.
Word of Recall
Flee to fight another day
Miracle
Anything from Greater Teleport for the party to removing the Blindness/Deafness outright for the group to using a Holy Word's evil equivalent are small uses for Miracle so no XP cost.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Slightly off-topic, but what is the deal with the CR system? They cast as 17th level Clerics, the get a bunch of SLAs, how are they CR 16?

[Eldariel]

If your Eternal Blade has vision, just hit once with White Raven Hammer and the battle is over. Of course, I'm not sure if you have WRH available if he took Fighter-levels, but if he does, it'll solve the whole issue. Basically, use anything that takes its action away as it's 4v1; the rest of your characters have plenty of actions to finish it off. AMF is a fine idea; just keep it from leaving. If the Warblade is a lockdown-build, that solves all your problems. Otherwise, you may want to have one character prepare counterspell and others finish it off; Greater Dispel Magic or something.

[Tengu]

Slightly off-topic, but what is the deal with the CR system? They cast as 17th level Clerics, the get a bunch of SLAs, how are they CR 16?

CR is a measure of judging the strength of encounters, not the hid die for monsters. A planetar can be killed by a level 16 party without spending an extreme amounts of resources.

[weenie]

CR is a measure of judging the strength of encounters, not the hid die for monsters. A planetar can be killed by a level 16 party without spending an extreme amounts of resources.

That's true, but a NPC Cleric of X level is normally considered to have a challenge rating of X. I think this was the issue in this case.

[Bauglir]

Especially because Outsider Hit Dice are better than or equal to Cleric levels in every way except the spellcasting. And turn undead, I suppose, but that's hardly a fair trade for everything else a planetar gets. Although it has fewer hit dice, in nearly all cases its ability modifiers make it superior. Blasphemy is probably your best way to exploit that.

[AslanCross]

That's true, but a NPC Cleric of X level is normally considered to have a challenge rating of X. I think this was the issue in this case.

Well, CR is definitely not as well-ironed out as the Monster Manual makes it out to be. However, NPCs are also assumed to be carrying gear as per the WBL chart, while this is not necessarily true for monsters who are otherwise humanoid. Also, monsters mostly just gain BAB and saving throw increases as they level up. They don't gain class features, which are meant to be much more powerful than whatever abilities a creature has. (Which is admittedly and unfortunately, not always true.)

[Chronos]

Planetars are an outright mockery of the CR system. A level 17 cleric is theoretically a CR 17, and in practice significantly above that, due to the caster-noncaster power imbalance. A Planetar has everything a level 17 cleric has except for Turn Undead and HD, but it still has more HP than the cleric due to its massive Con, and it has a whole host of great abilities in addition (large size, great ability scores, flight, tons of skill points (mostly well-spent), SLAs, etc.). It's a suitable BBGG for your party, but you do not want to face your BBGG with a surprise round and half your daily resources expended. Escape is your best option, here.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Cheers everyone. Let's see if we can out-teleport that mustard, eh? :smallcool:

[Belial_the_Leveler]

I forgot to mention something about Blasphemy. A planetar is extra-planar so he is forced to make his will saving throw or be immediately banished. In effect, Blasphemy works as a "save or lose" for angels.