O-Chul's Plan? (spoilers, of course)

[Callista]

O'Chul could easily choose to die instead of providing Xykon with entertainment. Why doesn't he?

As a victim, O'Chul has a lot of attractive qualities. He's got a high HP total. He's stubborn. And he's a paladin. There's nobody else in the city that fills the role better. So he's stuck being near-killed and healed, repeatedly, because Xykon thinks it's fun.

So here's my theory: O'Chul is, to some extent, going along with it. If he wanted to, he could find a way to die--and doing so, when captured without hope of escape, is not dishonorable in his culture, either. He's had plenty of opportunities. It's probably pretty tempting. All he would've had to do was stay in the acid just six seconds longer, or not think hard enough to find a way out.

But what does he do instead? Escapes the deathtrap. With a lich and a mystic theurge sitting there, either of which could kill him in a single round. Xykon's epic level. By now, he's done this multiple times--he's got to be pretty sure that he's not going to escape alive. As a paladin, he knows he's got nothing to worry about if he dies; so it's almost like he's refusing an obvious route of escape. The way he escaped that shark tank was pretty darn cinematic--in a word, it was entertaining.

O'Chul's plan (and I really think he has one; he's had time to think and he's the Lawful type of guy who will create a plan even in the worst situations): Entertain Xykon. Keep him busy. Look for ways to cause damage. Pick off hobgoblin guards. Keep your eyes open for Xykon's secrets. Wait for death, escape, or rescue. Hope you don't go too crazy in the meantime.

The way I see it, O'Chul is playing Xykon for a fool. He's hampering Xykon, taking up resources and time that would otherwise be used to start another war or make life miserable for the populace. And he's doing it while being subjected to torture for two months straight.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, that is a paladin.

[NikkTheTrick]

O'Chul is quite a competent combatant. His death is a loss for the Saphire Guard. The way I see it, he views his life as something that belongs to the Guard. Therefore, he does not have the right to let it get lost in vain. So, he does his best to survive. Once he has chance to "spend" it on something useful, he'll do that.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Wrong reason, right result. He's not "keeping Xykon busy" or "picking off hobbo guards". He's fighting. He's throwing guards into the acid, he's charging Xykon, he's Smiting Evil inside a fortress of it. He's not a paladin because he has a great plan, he doesn't. He's a paladin because he's still around. He's been tortured for 2 months and he didn't stay in for that last 6 seconds. He's not dying to escape to the heavens, if he did he wouldn't be the person who deserved them. He's fighting to reach them.

[Theodoriph]

He's just trying to stay alive and inflicting as much harm as he can...like any normal person.


As for him distracting Xykon and taking up resources...please...this is Xykon we're talking about. He does absolutely nothing but entertain himself by mindlessly killing allies or watching them suffer. What does it matter if it's O'Chul or some random hobbo. I suppose he might be saving a few lives by continuing to be a source of amusement...but that's the most he's managed to accomplish thus far.

Now if he were distracting redcloak and wasting all of his valuable time...that might accomplish something...assuming the hobbos had no other competent leadership.



Besides, letting himself die would not be a good deed. He is sworn to oppose evil like Xykon. If I were a DM and a paladin quit on me like that, I'd make his ass fall hard.

[Callista]

Even one life's worth it, isn't it? Considering the resources he's got, he's doing pretty well.


Wrong reason, right result. He's not "keeping Xykon busy" or "picking off hobbo guards". He's fighting. He's throwing guards into the acid, he's charging Xykon, he's Smiting Evil inside a fortress of it. He's not a paladin because he has a great plan, he doesn't. He's a paladin because he's still around. He's been tortured for 2 months and he didn't stay in for that last 6 seconds. He's not dying to escape to the heavens, if he did he wouldn't be the person who deserved them. He's fighting to reach them.So... your basic idea is that he still considers himself a soldier primarily, rather than dwelling on the "POW" bit. I'd agree. Thing is, I don't see a guy who's lawful enough to be a paladin not thinking at least a little in the long term, even if "long term" sometimes means the next two rounds. He's already shown himself to be a good strategist... and unless he's being constantly kept unconscious, I have a feeling he has been spending time trying to think up ways to mess up Xykon's plans. That he's badly outmatched isn't his fault.

[Theodoriph]

Of course it matters and is worth it (roleplaying wise anyway)...after all...he is supposed to protect the commoners. Whether it actually matters in the overall scheme of the comic though...that is yet to be seen :smallsmile:

[LtNOWIS]

Well, hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but a pretty smart course of action in this strip would be to try to punch the tank instead of Xykon. It'd be hard to break, but having acid spill everywhere would inconvenience Xykon. As would a broken "villainous deathtrap" tank.

[WarriorTribble]

I wonder if Xykon (SoD spoiler)consideres him important enough to trap his soul after deathOn one hand he is a minor NPC, but then he's been the most fun for Xykon out of anyone we've seen so far, and O-chul has ranks in being the universe's bitch. :smalltongue:

[Kurald Galain]

While I do believe you can make saving throws against healing spells when you're unconscious, the Cure line of spells have half the effect on a succesful save. So you can't actually prevent yourself from being healed.

If this was a normal paladin, he could at some point conjure a mount out of nowhere for combat or escape. But in the OOTSverse, I'm not sure he can actually do this without a pokeball.

[Ziggy's_Roady]

Nah, Mr. Stiffly is just playing along until that chance he can finally Smith Evil Redcloak

[ObadiahtheSlim]

He's just hoping to pick up enough exp down the line to level up. I figure he's probably getting a bit from all these fights they have him do.

[Callista]

He's probably leveled already.

Traps give XP.
So do acid-breathing sharks.
So does creating the strategy required to break out of said trap--RP XP.

A CR equivalent encounter should use up 1/4 of your resources: Hit points, usable items, spells.

This encounter used up ALL of O-Chul's resources, he was hampered by a lack of equipment, and the encounter wasn't even quite meant to be survivable. That means it's CR+4 or more--leading to quite a large amount of XP.

However, I don't think it's his goal to use Xykon's torture as some kind of hellish traning camp. O-Chul is generally a serious character, and he doesn't really "metagame" the way that the OOTS often does. To stay in that kind of situation just for the XP is serious metagaming, the kind that invites the hitting of players with metal folding chairs. And, in any case, it's not smart--he's going to get permanent ability drain sooner or later, making him weaker in the long run; and Xykon could just send (level-draining undead of your choice) after him if he looks to be getting too powerful anyway.

[David Argall]

O'Chul has no plan, beyond the animal stay alive and fight. Any more detailed plan is at the mercy of Xykon's whims among other things.

[Belkar Rocks]

Well, regardless of the reasons for it, and whether or not he has much of a plan, he has stayed alive in the face of terrible torture and continues to fight.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, that is a paladin.Abso-freakin-lutely.

[Zeitgeist]

He's fighting because he can't do much being dead, but there's a chance, albeit small, that he can do something being alive. He did kill a hobgoblin, didn't he? The fact that he tried to attack Xykon is pretty indicative of his purpose. He doesn't expect to win. But in a world of dice rolling, almost anything is possible.

[Doug Lampert]

He's probably leveled already.

Traps give XP.
So do acid-breathing sharks.
So does creating the strategy required to break out of said trap--RP XP.

A CR equivalent encounter should use up 1/4 of your resources: Hit points, usable items, spells.

This encounter used up ALL of O-Chul's resources, he was hampered by a lack of equipment, and the encounter wasn't even quite meant to be survivable. That means it's CR+4 or more--leading to quite a large amount of XP.

Equal CR uses roughly 1/4th of the consumable resources of a PARTY of 4 PCs. O-Chul is alone. 1/4th the resources of a party of 4 is roughly identical to enough to kill any one member. Equal CR is bad enough if you are alone.

Also note that for a standard PHB race and class character your mirror image is an equal CR foe. Obviously your mirror image is roughly an equal encounter. For a party of four, the mirror images are EL of level+4 because there are 4 of them, but for a party of ONE foe of CR == character level is an even fight.

Lack of gear is a serious handicap and means the CR probably wasn't all that high. (Of cource since O-Chul doesn't need to split it with any other characters and gets the RP XP, he'll still level FAST.)

[Green Bean]

Also keep in mind that O-chul probably figured out pretty early that Xykon really enjoys doing the whole "death trap" thing. If O-chul gave up, then Xykon would simply start doing the same thing with weaker prisoners who wouldn't survive the process.

[rosebud]

He's trying to stay alive, but I don't understand why he's not trying to either escape or survive better.

Presumably they babble long enough for him to pray for protection or other aid. (What is the problem with the Southern Gods? They really suck so far. Except the Monkey who made Ninjas, of course.)

Inside the tank, I don't understand why he does not:

1) Lay hands on himself to heal some damage. The shark attacks when he kicks enough to engage him.
2) (As a paladin, can he) neutralize the acid?
3) Get ejected on THE OTHER SIDE. This would give him some time to maneuver. If Xykon gets board and blasts him from afar, at least the tank goes with him and his minions are inconvenienced.
4) If he can neutralize the acid or heal faster than he hurts, perhaps kill the shark, cut it up with the shark's teeth, use its entrails to make a rope, and pull himself back up to the platform?

Perhaps the next round or rounds he'll try those tactics?

[Callista]

CR gets adjusted up or down to account for conditions like being without your equipment. And if you're fighting alone, you get four times the XP. So he's getting more XP than he would if he were in a regular party with his equipment. I guess the lack of equipment is taken into account, but any way you slice it he's facing at least the equivalent danger of a BBEG fight, when half the party is expected to die. That's CR 4 above your level, generally, for a party of four. Either way--a party of one facing equal CR, or one person earning what a party of four would get--he's earning more XP than he would if he were part of a normal adventuring party.

But this could be irrelevant in any case: He's an NPC, and NPCs don't necessarily earn XP the way PCs do, though they can level if they've seen action or overcome some type of problem. It's easier for a DM to keep track of levels than individual XP totals for NPCs anyway.

[Paragon Badger]

He's trying to stay alive, but I don't understand why he's not trying to either escape or survive better.

Presumably they babble long enough for him to pray for protection or other aid. (What is the problem with the Southern Gods? They really suck so far. Except the Monkey who made Ninjas, of course.)

Inside the tank, I don't understand why he does not:

1) Lay hands on himself to heal some damage. The shark attacks when he kicks enough to engage him.
2) (As a paladin, can he) neutralize the acid?
3) Get ejected on THE OTHER SIDE. This would give him some time to maneuver. If Xykon gets board and blasts him from afar, at least the tank goes with him and his minions are inconvenienced.
4) If he can neutralize the acid or heal faster than he hurts, perhaps kill the shark, cut it up with the shark's teeth, use its entrails to make a rope, and pull himself back up to the platform?

Perhaps the next round or rounds he'll try those tactics?

He isn't planning anything.

Smiting an epic level lich with your fist, while heavily injured, is no indication of a plan. O-Chul just wants to die, but he's too proud to kick the bucket on his knees.

[Surgoshan]

However, I don't think it's his goal to use Xykon's torture as some kind of hellish traning camp. O-Chul is generally a serious character, and he doesn't really "metagame" the way that the OOTS often does. To stay in that kind of situation just for the XP is serious metagaming, the kind that invites the hitting of players with metal folding chairs. And, in any case, it's not smart--he's going to get permanent ability drain sooner or later, making him weaker in the long run; and Xykon could just send (level-draining undead of your choice) after him if he looks to be getting too powerful anyway.

Perhaps the undead are why he attacked Xykon and got himself knocked down to negative HP. So long as he keeps proving he's not a threat as he is, whether he's using all his resources or not, the bad guys keep underestimating him. This keeps him alive and gives him the chance to level, gain more power, and perhaps get away/attack or whatever to do more good.

As it is, he knows he can't win and being a paladin doesn't make him stupid (apparently Miko took ranks in stupid, or maybe got it as a feat). We haven't seen NPCs seriously metagame because they're NPCs; they're not around enough for us to see it. However, Shojo was aware of his class levels, the chick who reforged Roy's sword was aware she was making it a +5 weapon, etc. They tend to be more willing to cover it up and pretend (serious RP rather than just RP for XP, Belkar) to more than the minimum degree required by the DM.

[rosebud]

Smiting an epic level lich with your fist, while heavily injured, is no indication of a plan. O-Chul just wants to die, but he's too proud to kick the bucket on his knees.He's there to uphold good and prevent evil. Dying does not aid that mission. Escaping could.
Now if he's only there for humor value in his role of paladin and just reading the script, that's another possible angle.

[ShellBullet]

I don't think he really has any plans or that the team evil even lets O-chul have moment of rest. The only thing O-chul can do is gather information and level up, because Xykon won't drain him of his levels due the great amusement he gets from him and I doubt that Tsukiko or RC are too keen to reduce level of O-chulu, because he is only real amusement they got.

[Callista]

If he gets any down time at all, he's planning. Chaotics might wait for a spur-of-the-moment escape or take opportunities to damage the enemy as they see them, but Lawful people will want a plan. And unless O'Chul's Law is all honor and no organization, he's gonna be planning.