PDA

View Full Version : Fighter remake.. pls evaluate



Tehnar
2008-03-26, 03:36 AM
Ive decided to remake the fighter class a bit for my campaign. So I would value your input and suggestions. my players have access to core, PHB 2, completes ToB, and most of the rest (but not unearthed arcana and XPH/CP). As Im sceptical towards 4th edition I will probably keep running 3.5 even after 4th ed comes out.

Fighter
Aligment: any
Hit Dice: d10

Class skills:
Balance, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle animal, Intimidate,
Jump, Knowledge (history), Proffesion, Ride, Spot, Swim, Tumble

Skill points per level: 4+Int modifier
Base attack progression: Good
Fortitude save: good
Reflex save: good
Will save: poor

Level Attack Bonus Fort Refl Will Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Bonus feat
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Bonus feat
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Bonus feat
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Weapon aptitude
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Bonus exotic weapon proficiency
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Bonus feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Brains over brawn
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Faster then thought (2)
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Improved armor proficiency
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Bonus feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Bonus feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Faster then thought (3)
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Armor skin
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Bonus feat

Weapon aptitude(ex): the fighter can change his weapon related feats (such as weapon focus,
weapon specialization, improved critical) to any weapon he is proficient with. He cannot
change his weapon proficiencies using weapon aptitude. The process takes 24h. He effectivly loses
his old feats and gains new ones with the new weapon of his choice.

Bonus exotic weapon proficiency(ex): the fighter gains Exotic weapon proficiency with a exotic weapon
of his choice (the fighter must have had a chance to train with such a weapon).

Brains over brawn(ex): the fighter adds his Int modifier on all opposed rolls with regard to bull rushed, tripped,
grappled, etc. He also adds his Int modifier to his touch AC and as a bonus on STR, DEX and CON checks
(such as breaking down a door, forced marching)

Faster then thought(ex): As a standard action the fighter can make two attacks instead of one. This is like using a
full round action to attack except the fighter can make only two attacks. The fighter cannot use Faster then thought
to trip, grapple, etc, nor can he use it in conjuction with spring attack. A lvl 17 fighter can make 3 attacks. Feats such as power
attack, combat expertise can be used normally. If the fighter uses two weapons to fight he makes 2 attack with his main hand and one
attack with his off hand (3 attacks with main hand and 1 attack with off hand). The spell haste and simillar effects do not apply
to faster then thought. For example Genero the lvl 13 fighter uses Faster then thought (2): he takes a standard action to make two
attacks, one at +13 base attack, and one at +8.

Improved armor proficiency (ex): the figher treats all armor as one categorie lighter (so mithril full plate would
be considered light armor for the fighter). Also all armor and shields the fighter uses have their armor check penalty reduced
by 1. This category reduction applies only for movement and feat purposes, it does not function with class features (such as evasion).


Armor skin (ex): The fighter is one with his armor (but not with shields). He adds his armor bonus to his touch AC. Also his armor
provides energy resistance (fire, lightning, sonic, acid, cold) equal to his armor bonus. The max dex bonus increases by 2. The fighter
must be aware of attacks to gain the use of this feat (ie not flatfooted).


The ability I'm not satisfied with is Armor skin and Brains over brawn. So if you have any suggestions please voice them. I am aware that this fighter has a high touch AC, I wanted to give him some defence against magic without giving him spell resistance or spell like/supernatural abilities. And Im aware that some abilities are similar to the warblade, but I feel those are the things a fighter needs.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-26, 03:55 AM
This is quite interesting. The energy resistance sounds mildly overpowered, though, as does reducing the effecive weight of armour (admittedly, this probably isn't that bad being as all it would really do is allow the Fighter to move faster in heavy armour). This would be better off in the Homebrew section if I'm honest, though.

Tehnar
2008-03-26, 05:21 AM
Ah,sorry then. Could i request that a admin move this thread to a more suitable location?

Titanium Dragon
2008-03-26, 05:40 AM
I believe you can find a good fighter remake on page 20 of the Tome of Battle. :smalltongue:

To be honest, though, I don't think the class is salvagable without adding in some spice; it lacks SoD effects and any really interesting abilities. That's why the Warblade and other ToB classes are so good as replacements; they're interesting to play as and do interesting things. No matter how much you power it up, there's no escaping the monotony of full attacks without changing the way the class works on a fairly fundamental level.

What I'd personally do is add in a system wherein at higher levels the fighter can sacrifice attacks for special things to be added to his main attack.

Something like:

Fighter’s Focus: At 6th level, a fighter gains the ability to give up an attack in order to make his remaining attacks more powerful. The attack given up in this way is always the attack with the lowest base bonus remaining to the fighter this round.
- Battle Flow: If a fighter gives up an attack, each time he makes a successful attack roll this turn he may take a five foot step in addition to his normal movement.
- Best Defense: If a fighter gives up an attack and is carrying a shield, he may double his shield bonus to his armor class until the beginning of his next turn.
- Blinding Strike: If a fighter gives up an attack, any creature struck by one of the fighter’s attacks this turn must make a DC 10 + 1/2 fighter level + strength modifier Fort save; if they fail, they are blinded for a number of rounds equal to the fighter’s strength modifier.
- Powerful Swings: For each attack a fighter gives up in this way, his remaining attacks deal +2d6 damage until end of turn.
- Special Attack: If a fighter gives up an attack, the fighter gains an additional standard action this turn. This standard action may only be used to aid another, bull rush, disarm, feint, overrun, sunder, or trip; any attacks made in this way are made with the fighter’s full base attack bonus if applicable.

Veteran Fighter’s Focus: At 11th level, a fighter gains the ability to give up attacks in order to make his remaining attacks more powerful. The attacks given up in this way are always the attacks with the lowest base bonus remaining to the fighter this round.
- Sure: If a fighter gives up two attacks, the fighter may take 10 on all his remaining attack rolls this turn.
- War in Motion: If a fighter gives up an attack, the fighter may take an additional move action this turn. This move action can only be used to move, though the fighter may use the Tumble skill if they so choose.

Master Fighter's Focus: At 16th level, a fighter gains the ability to give up attacks in order to make his remaining attacks more powerful. The attacks given up in this way are always the attacks with the lowest base bonus remaining to the fighter this round.

Give him better stuff at 11th and 16th level, and give him an extra point of base attack bonus at 20th level. I haven't made all that many of these things, I'm sure you could come up with more interesting stuff they could do; I used War in Motion instead of Brains over Brawn because I figure War in Motion encourages two weapon fighting more; Brains over Brawn just encourages power attacking with a 2-handed weapon, which already seems to often be the best option anyway.

I'd also give the fighter exotic weapon proficiency (all) as a bonus feat at level 3, and at level 5, rather than give him your weapon aptitude feat, give him:

Versatile Warrior: At 5th level, all feats which can apply to more than one weapon apply to all weapons with which the fighter is proficient. This ability allows the fighter to qualify for feats as if he had any such feats he possess for all weapons.

I'd also try to plug in "holes" (levels where you don't get anything) with interesting special abilities, though it looks like you did a lot of that already. I'd also try and give some preference to making fighting styles other than two weapon fighting good with the fighter, focusing on 2WF and Sword and Board, with only a little bit of 2 handed weapon stuff - there's already plenty of good 2 handed weapon stuff out there.

Upping their hit dice to d12 wouldn't hurt, either.

Giving them rolling criticals might also be interesting at some point:

If you roll a critical threat on a critical confirmation, roll again to confirm a third critical threat; if you confirm this critical threat, add an additional x2, x3, or x4 damage as appropriate to the weapon. Continue this until you do not score another critical threat.

Skjaldbakka
2008-03-26, 05:40 AM
I have to say I don't care for the energy resistance either. Brains over Brawns should not be automatic, IMO, as not all fighters are gonna be intelligence based. There should be a choice between that and something else, perhaps a wisdom and a charisma based ability. The wisdom could be a bonus to hit and damage whenever you are flanking, and the charisma could be bonus to improved disarm/trip/sunder/etc.

Just an example, not a well though out suggestion.

droyer
2008-03-26, 04:41 PM
Personally, I think he seems a little overpowered. You have given him pretty good special abilities without nerfing something else.

AslanCross
2008-03-26, 04:52 PM
Fighter’s Focus: At 6th level, a fighter gains the ability to give up an attack in order to make his remaining attacks more powerful. The attack given up in this way is always the attack with the lowest base bonus remaining to the fighter this round.


PHB2 has alternative class features that are similar to this. It has a defensive one and an offensive version, though admittedly they come a bit late in terms of levels.

Prometheus
2008-03-26, 05:32 PM
If you do end up keeping improved armor proficiency, a "Extra Heavy" armor section might be a nice complementary homebrew. "Extra Heavy" armor could only be worn with Improved armor Proficiency and as Heavy armor. Armor made out of stone, thick metal, with a ticket of spikes, or out of heavier special materials would fit the category. You could even have Golem-themed armor that is only available in "Extra Heavy" as a specific magic item.

I like the energy resistance part of armor skin. The image of a knight bracing against a dragon's breath with a shield and full armor will always stick in my mind.

EDIT: Also this is Fax_Celestis fighter homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44664&highlight=Fighter) and this is another one I like (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75703).

Craig1f
2008-03-27, 10:37 AM
I like a lot of this, except for the faster than thought and armor skin. The free exotic weapon proficiency, and ability to change your weapon-based feats is very nice.

You should allow more choices though. It seems like this build is for an intelligent fighter. You should include a charismatic build (think frightening presence), a wise build (not sure what I'd do with this one), a dexterous build (archery or combat expertise focused), a Con build (tank), and a STR build (slugger).

Swordguy
2008-03-27, 11:24 AM
None of this is OP whatsoever when you look at what the fighter is competing against.

Honestly, it puts it into the same ballpark at the ToB classes (which AREN'T the answer to everything, dammit!).

Armor Skin coming so late in the advancement pattern is essentially worthless - the important part is that he adds it to his touch AC, not the energy resistance part. A maximum of 8 energy resistance (full plate) isn't all that great - though it's kinda nice against sonic. Perhaps have it advance over time? Say, get it a 3rd level (touch AC bonus), which is the same time that wizards start getting bad-ass rays. Every 3-4 levels after that you get your armor bonus in ONE type of energy resistance (so at 7th, you can select fire, for example, and then take cold at 11th).

Brains over Brawn is too limited in that it forces MAD in a class that has DAD as a strong point. If you're gonna do it, do it with lots of other attributes (as mentioned by other posters). That said, it's a nice thought - though perhaps a touch OP with the touch AC bonus from this stacking with Armor Skin.

The rest is gold. I prefer this over some of the others I've seen which are more flexible (BWL's stuff, Fax's stuff...though I do love Fax's) because it's simple. I can plug this into an existing campaign (where the fighter already has his feats) because it doesn't change the base values of the class. You're adding stuff, not changing it. That's very valuable.