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Akisa
2008-03-26, 03:10 PM
I was wondering are there any advise playing male characters?

elliott20
2008-03-26, 03:12 PM
woot! Male Stereotypes thread!

Solo
2008-03-26, 03:13 PM
I was wondering are there any advise playing male characters?

Step 1:

Think of how you would react to a situation.

Step 2

Add testosterone and stir.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-26, 03:13 PM
Play them like they're people

Remember to stand up to pee, I guess.

Telonius
2008-03-26, 03:17 PM
In general, just as in the "playing female characters" thread, remember that men are people too. We're not all the same.

That said, I'll make some general statements; your particular character might vary from the norm. Men tend to be more aggressive than women. They're more likely to form hierarchies than do social networking. That is, they'll listen to (or be) the guy in charge, rather than trying to build consensus before acting. The focus is the destination, not the journey. They generally value decisiveness over deliberation.

As with playing female characters, a lot of the cultural aspects are campaign-specific. Men might be expected to be bread-winners, or equal partners. There might be a cultural "masculine" value on dancing and music, in which case men will tend to want to dance and sing; or that might be considered "girly" in the society. Ask your DM about that sort of thing.

Corsec1337
2008-03-26, 03:20 PM
When in doubt, hit something.

Solo
2008-03-26, 03:24 PM
When in doubt, hit something.

When not in dobut (about gender), hit on something.

AmberVael
2008-03-26, 03:25 PM
I was wondering are there any advise playing male characters?

To list a number of stereotypes and generalizations...
(And I can list multiple exceptions among the people I know for each one, so don't go crazy on me, okay?)

Men are typically more blunt and narrowly focused than women. This usually comes across in conversation and speech more than anywhere else, but will also come across in action. Take shopping methods, for example. :smalltongue: No window shopping or recreation- they get what they came for and leave. It's simple.

However, this also means more intense dedication to a single thing. I would guess that male characters would be more likely to be specialist wizards, if you want to think of it that way. :smallwink:

Another thing that comes from this is a certain lack of... politeness? Frankness, direct insults (As in, saying them to someone's face or writing them where they are accessible- I know a lot of women who complain behind backs, so it doesn't work there) and crude comments are marginally more common among men. Of course, don't go spouting off curse words at every turn- that's not in character either (unless you're playing an avid, rabid, internet user, in which case it will work just fine! :smallbiggrin:)

Men are also more likely to "tough it out" and be independent than women. They less frequently draw comfort from the presence of others (though whether this is because they need it less or just do it less for various reasons I won't get into) and tend to stew as opposed to work out emotions by sharing them.

Self-image. Men, for whatever reason, tend to be more sure of their appearance, actions, and general worth. Worry less about what people think of you (though this has a very, very common exception to it), what you wear, etc.

*awaits smiting and shouts of "evil stereotypes!*

Craig1f
2008-03-26, 03:28 PM
Don't drop something, say "oops", bend over really far to pick up the item you dropped, and expect a circumstance bonus to any charisma-based skill checks to follow.

Frosty
2008-03-26, 03:28 PM
Men tend to lik the direct approach better. They also tend to want to "fix" things. That is why we don't just listen when you come running to us about yor bad day. We give you all sorts of un-wanted afvice about what to do because we think that's the fastest and most efficient method to solve the problem. Meanwhile we are unaware that you just wanted some emotional relief and a patient ear.

Xefas
2008-03-26, 03:28 PM
Psh, real men run naked into encounters, power attack cranked to full, with nothing but their masterwork greatsword and a weapon of some kind. Even the wizards. Even in the social encounters.

Don't forget, whenever you drink something, you need to immediately make a strength check afterward to see if you can crush the empty mug/tankard/stein/waterskin on your forehead.

Mc. Lovin'
2008-03-26, 03:29 PM
Actually you got us summed up pretty good right there ^^

Solo
2008-03-26, 03:31 PM
Psh, real men run naked into encounters, power attack cranked to full, with nothing but their masterwork greatsword and a weapon of some kind.

Wielding their Greatswords in both hands, mind you.

Admiral Squish
2008-03-26, 03:37 PM
Okay, you know goliath fluff, right?

It's a lot like that, but a little less up-front about it and more subtle gloating.

Overlord
2008-03-26, 03:40 PM
I was going to say the same thing I posted in the female version of this thread. But then I realized that if you play a male barbarian that kills everything he can lay hands on and hits on every woman he sees, the males in your party won't be offended; they'll just assume you're playing a "normal" character.

Or, if they're actually more intelligent males, they'll wonder why you're purposefully playing a ridiculously stereotypical male just to prove a point.

In any event I recommend you play a male character the same way you play all of your other characters.

TheOOB
2008-03-26, 03:42 PM
One of the defining male traits is that they tend to much more goal-oriented then woman. The "average male" (whatever that is) prefers to do things quickly and effectively, and move on to the next thing. They usually care little for the journey, and instead care more about the destination and final outcome. This is one of the reasons why males come off as rude and uncouth, being formal and addressing people in a delicate matter is seen as a waste of time, people talk to convey information, and when the information has been given, the conversation should be over.

Men also typically have a strong desire to be independent. They usually have difficultly asking other for help, especially if they can't do something to earn the help.

Keep in mind that these are horrible generalization, and that ever person is different. Your typical male is more direct, focused, and independent then your typical female, but each individual can vary alot, and adventurers are anything but typical.

Lairship
2008-03-26, 03:42 PM
As I guy I'll say this. Just act like yourself except to one person.
The person most like yourself.
Ever notice how girls hang around in groups of very similiar acting people?
In Man-land, that kind of person is your rival. Try and be better than them. :p

Hadrian_Emrys
2008-03-26, 03:45 PM
Admiral Squish has the best idea thus far of how to look at things when attempting to reach an understanding of the common denominator in males. Goliaths are a race of men without finesse. The idea is to take that mindset, only much more subtle.

droyer
2008-03-26, 03:47 PM
Men, just like women, are individuals. There is no way to tell you how to play as a man unless you want to go into some sort of stereotype.

Corlis
2008-03-26, 03:52 PM
Psh, real men run naked into encounters, power attack cranked to full, with nothing but their masterwork greatsword and a weapon of some kind. Even the wizards. Even in the social encounters.

Don't forget, whenever you drink something, you need to immediately make a strength check afterward to see if you can crush the empty mug/tankard/stein/waterskin on your forehead.It is in fact permissible to use spells, but they must be fireballs, maximized, empowered, and hieghtened as far as you can. Also, you must be at the edge of the blast radius, so you can do a dramatic jump out of a window with the flames just behind you.

lumberofdabeast
2008-03-26, 03:53 PM
Psh, real men run naked into encounters, power attack cranked to full, with nothing but their masterwork greatsword and a weapon of some kind. Even the wizards. Even in the social encounters.

Don't forget, whenever you drink something, you need to immediately make a strength check afterward to see if you can crush the empty mug/tankard/stein/waterskin on your forehead.

My greatsword just got the flaming enhancement. Should I go see a doctor?

The Vorpal Tribble
2008-03-26, 03:55 PM
Beats me. I've been told many a time I'm not a standard guy in any way (straight as a board though. Not different in 'that' manner).

However, oddly enough I've never had a problem with playing female characters. I just consider it the same as writing a female in a book. One thing I do gotta say is, I don't for one minute believe women are more empathic than guys.

Lairship
2008-03-26, 04:31 PM
(straight as a board though. Not different in 'that' manner).


Old Chinese saying, he who needs to say he ain't gay on the internet is, you know, a little gay.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-26, 04:32 PM
Since you're probably trying to play a character rather than simulate a person, cliches and stereotypes work for you. People will pick up gender cues ingrained in them by a lifetime of exposure to society and media.

As a MUSHer, I've picked up some "tells" that suggest a woman playing a male character. So...

1. Too much talk. Say what needs to be said, and that's that.
2. Not enough action. Decide what to do, and do it.
3. Decide, don't consult. The stereotypical female style of leadership is consensus-building, the stereotypical male style of leadership is authority. Compromise is possible, but total agreement on all sides is not necessary.
(A bit MUSH-specific, but ... 4. Wince when violence towards the male genitals is brought up in any form. Seriously, every male character played by a man does that, because the player's are wincing too. :smallamused: )

The_Werebear
2008-03-26, 04:36 PM
A general characteristic- The directness works both ways. Men are less likely(from what evidence I have seen) to pick up on subtle hinting and better at responding to a direct command.

Khatoblepas
2008-03-26, 04:45 PM
When not in dobut (about gender), hit on something.

I'm sure with enough ale, even the most masculine of orcs is ripe for hitting on... if you don't mind them hitting back. And in the morning, deny all knowledge of it. Also, do some muscle flexing to reassert your masculinity. MANLY!


A general characteristic- The directness works both ways. Men are less likely(from what evidence I have seen) to pick up on subtle hinting and better at responding to a direct command.

I can't agree more with this. Use:
"Will you..."
"Please do this..."

Instead of:
"Could you..."
"Would you..."
"It would be nice if..."

Subtle phrasings make all the difference. Men won't do something if you passively ask them to do it, or say it would be nice.

The more unconfident about something about yourself you are, the more you need to prove you can do something. Buy a big sword or staff, even if you won't use it. Focus on the shiny things. Talk big, even if you have a negative to your cha based skills.

TempusCCK
2008-03-26, 04:54 PM
So I can't help but wonder, is this thread some sort of reaction to the question about playing femal echaracters thread, like, a "If you can do it so can I" type thing, or are you honestly serious about playing a male character and want some advice on how to do it.

One thing that I tend to see in alot of females is a need to be absolutely equal in all aspects of society, even if it is something petty and trivial. So if this is one of the those petty and trivial things that you're doing just to be equal then I recommend that you grow up, otherwise, everyone else here has some great tips on playing stereotypical men.

My suggestion, wear a toga, put ranks into Craft, and flex your muscles constantly while talking about the reps you did today.

The Vorpal Tribble
2008-03-26, 04:57 PM
Old Chinese saying, he who needs to say he ain't gay on the internet is, you know, a little gay.
*grins*

More like on these forums I keep getting hit on by guys so I have to make it fricken' clear.

GammaPaladin
2008-03-26, 05:06 PM
A general characteristic- The directness works both ways. Men are less likely(from what evidence I have seen) to pick up on subtle hinting and better at responding to a direct command.

It's not a lack of picking up on subtle hints, it's simply an assumption that if it's phrased as distinctly optional, then I don't have to do it if I don't feel like it.

This is tied to the "Less concerned with how other people perceive him than the typical female would be", however. Women tend to feel more psychological pressure to please others, and therefore subtle requests seem more weighty to them, whereas a male will typically have no problem answering something like "Would you do..." with a simple "No."

Guys usually say "Hey, I need you to..." or, "Oy! Get off the damn couch and..." when something is actually deemed imperative.

Prometheus
2008-03-26, 05:08 PM
What others have said, but these others come to mind.

Lack of Subtlety: Less likely to pick up innuendo and true motives, more likely to rely on rules or negotations.
Strange Responsibility: Either a surplus or deficit, nothing in between. Either it gives him an ego boost to take action and control, or it gives him an ego boost to have things done for him.

Solo
2008-03-26, 05:09 PM
But don't guys usually initiate innuendo in the first place?

Reel On, Love
2008-03-26, 05:10 PM
*grins*

More like on these forums I keep getting hit on by guys so I have to make it fricken' clear.

Mmm. That's kinda hot. :smallwink:

Bleen
2008-03-26, 05:19 PM
You busy tonight, Tribble? :smallamused:

Also, our manly-innuendo is always horrifyingly obvious. It doesn't count!

TheCountAlucard
2008-03-26, 05:23 PM
I'm reminded of a routine by comedian Yakov Smirnoff. Now, since it was comedy, I have no guarantee that any of it is true, but he was talking about a study by scientists concerning the male and female brains.

When the female goes to sleep, a large portion of her brain is still active, making her more receptive, easier to wake. The male brain, in comparison, is almost entirely shut off.

The brain is split into two halves, the left making decisions with logic, the right with emotion. A scan of the female brain revealed vast networks of connections between the two halves, like a highway. A scan of the male brain revealed very few connections, like a country road. Men typically make decisions using mostly one half of the brain or the other, while women typically make decisions using some of each half.

Just kind of interesting to think about.

Hadrian_Emrys
2008-03-26, 05:36 PM
*grins*

More like on these forums I keep getting hit on by guys so I have to make it fricken' clear.

1. Shades.
2. A "killer" smile.
3. "HAIRY LIKE ANIMAL!"[/Ivonna]

You'll get hit on anyway. :smallamused:

Yuki Akuma
2008-03-26, 05:36 PM
You busy tonight, Tribble? :smallamused:

Also, our manly-innuendo is always horrifyingly obvious. It doesn't count!

In your end-o.


... Yes. Anyway. We males have a tendency to be direct. If we don't like someone, we make that perfectly clear. If we do like someone, we make that clear as well.

Unless you're one of those shy specimens like me. Then you don't do that last part until it's much too late and you find out, much to your chagrin, that your highschool crush had a crush on you and...

>.>;

I'll just say that all the stereotypes about men are true. We're not subtle people.

While women tend to be multi-faceted and hardly ever what they appear to be on the surface around most people, we men are just... one-dimensional.

I'm not sure whether stereotyping your own sex is better or worse than doing the opposite...

Zincorium
2008-03-26, 05:41 PM
From my own perspective:

Guys try to fix things. This is usually beneficial-to-dangerous when facing something mechanical, but when it comes to things that aren't 'fixable', like problems in relationships, the approach doesn't work so well.

Fiery Diamond
2008-03-26, 05:47 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA!!!!!!!

*cough hack wheeze*
*terrified look*

You just had to do this, didn't you?
The first thing I though of was the thread about playing a female. Then I read over the responses. And then I screamed in horror.

Don't, whatever you do, listen to the horrible blatantly-obvious-sexual-innuendo (or similar) posters. They do not represent the kind of male that is any good to roleplay. I swear, if I had a player who behaved like that, male OR female, I'd want them to NOT behave like that, and if they couldn't help it, I'd want them to NOT play.

Remember- stereotypes are evil. Almost always. (I probably fit more female stereotypes than I do male stereotypes- but, I also do not fit many stereotypes. I also know many males who do not fit the generalizations and stereotypes listed on this thread.)

Except- yes, males are generally more direct than females, in American culture, anyway. Subtlety is a gift I lack.

-Fiery Diamond

Azerian Kelimon
2008-03-26, 05:48 PM
Another thing that's interesting to know is this: Men and women have a different approach to victory/success. A woman is more likely to do the "slow and steady" approach (Example: Building a gigantic army in an RTS, slowly annihilating enemy outposts, replacing fallen troops before doing another attack), while a man is more likely to want to go instantly to the top and risk much on a single move (Example: An inventor who pours every single penny and shilling into an invention, hoping that CompanyCorps will like his idea and he'll become a multibillionaire, not having to worry about paying the bills anymore, free to focus on inventing). It shows subconsciously, and unlike most stereotypes, since this is an ingrained approach, is much less likely to be ignored.

Zincorium: O RLY? Planning Love as if it were War tends to be extremely effective. Unless the man was thoroughly incompatible with the supposed romantic interest, that tended to work extremely well.

Collin152
2008-03-26, 05:50 PM
As the most atypical example of a male character, I'm going to have to say that all you need do to rollplay a male is to add a small bit more reason to your choices. Don't remove emotion from the equation a all, though, just repress it into a tiny ball of pain.



... Yes. Anyway. We males have a tendency to be direct. If we don't like someone, we make that perfectly clear. If we do like someone, we make that clear as well.
Yeah, no. Weak specimens like myself are not so likely to do either of those.
THeres a lot more variety in both genders then they give eachother/themselves credit for.

Lupy
2008-03-26, 05:55 PM
*Be direct
*Act tuff around a girl you like
*Have rivals everywhere
*Dislike people for no apparent reason
*Be over protective of any hot or young females
*Dual wield!!!
*Hurt yourself at least once a week trying to lift something too heavy
*Be deaf to anything non-sports related when your favorite sport is being dicussed
*Say "okay" even if you didn't hear what they said
*Be badass occasionally
*Talk about your buffness



Or if your kinda not buff,
*Be direct, but not quite as much
*Don't be afraid to show emotion, as long as you don't cry or scream
*Don't talk about sports, buffness, or anything like that
*Be able to beat the crap out of anyone who calls you gay in a manly way
*Play sad music

Dode
2008-03-26, 05:55 PM
Since you're probably trying to play a character rather than simulate a person, cliches and stereotypes work for you. People will pick up gender cues ingrained in them by a lifetime of exposure to society and media.

As a MUSHer, I've picked up some "tells" that suggest a woman playing a male character. So...

1. Too much talk. Say what needs to be said, and that's that.
2. Not enough action. Decide what to do, and do it.
3. Decide, don't consult. The stereotypical female style of leadership is consensus-building, the stereotypical male style of leadership is authority. Compromise is possible, but total agreement on all sides is not necessary.
(A bit MUSH-specific, but ... 4. Wince when violence towards the male genitals is brought up in any form. Seriously, every male character played by a man does that, because the player's are wincing too. :smallamused: )
I'm gonna have to say that this is the best advice so far in this thread.

AmberVael
2008-03-26, 05:58 PM
Remember- stereotypes are evil. Almost always. (I probably fit more female stereotypes than I do male stereotypes- but, I also do not fit many stereotypes. I also know many males who do not fit the generalizations and stereotypes listed on this thread.)

Except- yes, males are generally more direct than females, in American culture, anyway. Subtlety is a gift I lack.

-Fiery Diamond
Generalizations are what allow humans to be able to identify and understand new things after encountering only a few aspects of those things. They are not bad- without them you'd have immense learning problems. It allows and helps you to relate one thing to another.
Yes, there are exceptions- but remember, when you say that, what the word 'exception' means. The exception is the less likely of the options available.

There are very, very few males who exhibit in full all of the characteristics listed in this thread- there are also some who fit very few of them. The point of this thread is to list what is more commonly male so that someone who wants to play a male character can do it somewhat more accurately.
Remember: a vote for always playing the exception is a vote for more Drizzt clones.

Collin152
2008-03-26, 05:58 PM
*Be direct
*Act tuff around a girl you like
*Have rivals everywhere
*Dislike people for no apparent reason
*Be over protective of any hot or young females
*Dual wield!!!
*Hurt yourself at least once a week trying to lift something too heavy
*Be deaf to anything non-sports related when your favorite sport is being dicussed
*Say "okay" even if you didn't hear what they said
*Be badass occasionally
*Talk about your buffness


Well, I just thought of the really manly things me and my friends do... Don't play sad flute music either. Only a few striaght guys can pull that off *thank you, thank you*

Oh, this is advice on playing straight males?
I diddn't realise there were so many differances. :smallmad:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-03-26, 05:59 PM
Touché, I say.

ZeroNumerous
2008-03-26, 06:06 PM
Old Chinese saying, he who needs to say he ain't gay on the internet is, you know, a little gay.

To clarify: We're all a little gay. Otherwise we'd all be writing weepy poetry, wearing all black, and crying about how much life sucks. :smalltongue:

Artanis
2008-03-26, 06:10 PM
Hit on any female that's the same race as you. After a lot of alcohol, hit on any female that's humanoid. After a lot MORE alcohol, hit on any humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or being with between three and six limbs. :smalltongue:


In all seriousness though, you can pretty much "play a male character" just by playing a character. There's enough divergence between members of a given gender for there to be plenty of overlap between the two, so as long as you avoid anything too blatantly stereotypical of a female, there should be no problems whatsoever.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-26, 06:16 PM
Your initial post was a little short on what kind of game exactly it is you are going to be playing, so the following is only very general.

Gender is often not the most important defining characteristic of a character (or a human being for that matter).
More often one wants to play a role that is more tied to the choice of class and/or race and gender can be almost ignored.
When and if it does become an issue that requires a response that are not grounded more on how the other defining characteristics would make the character react just sticking to what you consider to be average male traits will probably do you fine.
Taking the worst stereotype to the extremes is more likely to detract from the fantasy RPG experience, which is of course also fine depending on your group and your goals.




*grins*

More like on these forums I keep getting hit on by guys so I have to make it fricken' clear.

Well Beholders are not very loving, I must admit, but you do have a nice round shape so I might dominate you and take you as a slave to my hive:smallwink: for you to work in the popcorn mines of course. :-p

puppyavenger
2008-03-26, 06:34 PM
generaly we don't like to admit ignorence.

Corsec1337
2008-03-26, 06:36 PM
Hmm... Lets bust out Freud. Btw, I'm too lazy to proof read this one since it will be a rant. Skip it if you don't want to read it. I'll be throwing in bits of sociology and psychology into this aswell.

A man has sexual confusion since birth. From an early age, typically, they are raised by there mothers. From an early age children develop by watching what they see. This is why you will see little boys trying on "women's" clothes. The father is the first rival. He takes away the mothers attention and is more dominant.

Boys are generally raised to be "tuff". This takes the form of mothers encourging boys to go outside and to experince the world while girls are typically kept inside with there dolls since they don't want there new/old doll to get dirty.

As a boy matures he is to break off the contact with his mother and become a "man". This takes the form of the boy spending time with his father. From this experince he takes on the "role play" aspect of his father. He pretends to be his father. In our age of television, the boy might attach himself to a male figure from that show. This is where playing "cops and robbers" and what not comes into play. A boy is taught from an early age that hostility is fine and a good way to solve problems. Also from the switch from role playing there mothers to there fathers, is where the sexual confusion comes from. This takes the form of "pretending" to be gay. At least in the U.S.A. you will see this in the form of touching other young boys in a way to see how far you can get.

Men like to seem "independent" but prefer groups just as much as anyone. Social isolation isn't good and can cause someone to become depressed and detached from the world eventully leading to suicide or something along those lines. Men like to be able to be around other men to compete. This comes into play with how men like to show off with toys(cars), physical ability(running around playing sports), or perhaps even there mental strength(warhammer). All of this is done for competion to show whose the best.

Men are very goal orientated as has been noted over and over in this thread already. Someone already gave the perfect example of how when men go shopping they go for one thing and one thing only, no window shopping.

Um.. The last bit I'll add is the fact that being a "man" is very important to males. But, I'm tired of typing so... yeah.

Gorbash Kazdar
2008-03-26, 06:48 PM
As I guy I'll say this. Just act like yourself except to one person.
The person most like yourself.
Ever notice how girls hang around in groups of very similiar acting people?
In Man-land, that kind of person is your rival. Try and be better than them. :p
I think this is actually a really good suggestion, particularly since it has a direct counterpoint for a male player/female character.

For when I've played female characters, a tip I found valuable is to remember to include a best friend - someone the character would share everything with. This was important because, as a male, this was not something that was a given. Having a friend like that for a male character would likely come across as strange.

Lairship's rival suggestion, though, is spot on. I've just about always had someone, generally another male, who I thought of as someone to beat, to do X better than he could. This can go a couple ways - you may have a complete rival, someone you want to beat in everything, or at least in a general sense of having a better life overall. Or you may just want to beat them at the one particular thing you both do - you want to be the superior swordsman or wizard. The rival could be have equal, superior, or inferior skill - if equal, you want to at least maintain that equality and hopefully eventually surpass them. If they're superior, you want to catch and then pass them. If they're inferior, you want to make sure they stay that way.

What seems to be the thing that female players miss, at least in my experience, is that this rivalry does not preclude having another connection to that character, specifically being friendly towards that person. The first one I mentioned, where you want to be better at everything, probably won't fall that way. But a swordsman who sees another as a rival could actually see this as a basis for friendship. Also, a student can often view his teacher in this fashion. And the student surpassing the master won't necessarily damage this relationship - an almost cliché reaction in many stories is for the master to have great pride in his student in such an occurrence (even more cliché is when the teacher didn't realize the student had it in them until it happened). It certainly can lead to them becoming enemies, though that's generally when the student can't surpass the master and becomes jealous in most stories, or if the master's ego can't take being bested.

Also, the rivalry doesn't have to be mutual. Your character might see another swordsman as his rival, but that other character isn't even aware of your character. This could cause great irritation to your character - see Roy's annoyance with Xykon not knowing who he is - or your character could simply acknowledge this as being expected - "Of course he doesn't know who I am, I'm not good enough yet. But someday I will be!" Or your rival is aware of you, and that you view him as your rival, but doesn't consider you a worthy enough of an opponent - and thus will have his own rival he seeks to best. If you surpass your rival, you might move on to viewing his rival as your new rival.

In fact, a pretty typical arc is for a character to declare someone his rival, but the other character doesn't consider the first character to be a worthy rival at the time, and is dismissive of character A. They may even be enemies. Eventually, character A beats character B, and suddenly B recognizes and comes to respect the skill of A. This can even become a basis of a friendship - B now gets that A isn't just some loser, and that maybe his approach is a good one. Or they may become blood enemies. Generally, B now definitely sees A as a rival.

Even if rivals are enemies, they may come to respect each other greatly and even admire each other, without ever actually becoming allies. Another cliché that comes up is when opponents acknowledge "in another world, we could have been friends." However, they're still going to work as hard as they can to defeat each other - in fact, they may work harder for this very reason.

The rival doesn't have to be the central aspect of your character, or even something that comes up very often. But for male characters, I think it's something to keep in mind - there should be someone your character is measuring himself against.

Collin152
2008-03-26, 06:56 PM
Hmm... Lets bust out Freud. Btw, I'm too lazy to proof read this one since it will be a rant. Skip it if you don't want to read it. I'll be throwing in bits of sociology and psychology into this aswell.


Freud has no idea what he's talking about.

Swordguy
2008-03-26, 07:03 PM
Since I haven't seen the reference to the old saw yet, I'll go ahead and get it out of the way.

Want to play a man? Play him like a woman, then add reason and accountability.

:smallbiggrin:

TempusCCK
2008-03-26, 07:04 PM
Second the "Freud doesn't know what he's talking about."

His assumptions on such things, from what I can tell, are based solely on his own intraspection. He's really only good as a basis for other people to work off of on behavioral and developmental psychology.

Raroy
2008-03-26, 07:22 PM
I read through this thread and lo and behold not much of anything here fits me. I'm never direct, I always have a motive for everything. I don't mind being out shined. I easily admit defeat..etc.

Since when has anyone have had trouble playing male characters anyway?

Collin152
2008-03-26, 07:26 PM
Since when has anyone have had trouble playing male characters anyway?

According to this thread I've been doing it wrong all along.

tahu88810
2008-03-26, 07:31 PM
Psh, real men run naked into encounters, power attack cranked to full, with nothing but their masterwork greatsword and a weapon of some kind. Even the wizards. Even in the social encounters.

Don't forget, whenever you drink something, you need to immediately make a strength check afterward to see if you can crush the empty mug/tankard/stein/waterskin on your forehead.
Can I just say that the first part of this post is going in my sig? XD

an kobold
2008-03-26, 07:36 PM
No asking for directions, no political correctness, and no humility.

FINAL DESTINATION!!!

Seriously, though, like women, there are several male "stock personalities" you can gear your character around. You can have everything from stereotypical jocks to the stereotypical T.S. Eliot personality. Choose the a male personality type that you'd think you'd like to play, then alter it to make it your unique character. But most males, in my opinion, tend to view life as more of a competition than a journey. They focus more on the destination than what it takes to get there. For instance, if your PC has a specific goal and fails to meet it, he's likely to ignore how he's bonded with the party and npcs along the way and any halfway victories (like stopping the BBEG's plan but letting him get away) and sulk for being a "failure."

Gorbash Kazdar
2008-03-26, 08:15 PM
I read through this thread and lo and behold not much of anything here fits me. I'm never direct, I always have a motive for everything. I don't mind being out shined. I easily admit defeat..etc.

Since when has anyone have had trouble playing male characters anyway?

According to this thread I've been doing it wrong all along.
I thought about this a bit, plus the ever-present cross-gender RP advice of "women/men are people too, so just play they like you would a man/woman." While the fact that people vary greatly from the "average" person of their gender is true, it's not terribly helpful in addressing the challenge inherent to the questions in this thread and it's mirror companion.

I think first the underlying question should be expanded a bit to cover what I think we really need to get at. The question isn't simply "how do you play a character of another gender?" Rather, the question is how to play a character of another gender in a believable, non-offensive fashion, while also making it clear that you are, in fact, RPing cross-gender. This can be trickier than it might first appear.

In face-to-face games, the general assumption tends to be that the character and the player share a gender - visual and audio cues from the player tend to reinforce this. The first few times I played a female character, I found that this was generally forgotten by the other players, and the "F" on the character sheet essentially ended up like the stereotypical disappearing familiar - worse, in fact, as the other players would default back to seeing the character as male unless specifically reminded. This can happen even in relatively RP heavy games. Thus, if you are really making a go at playing a character of another gender and want this to figure into the game, you have to find some way of continually reminding the other players (and yourself!) of the character's gender.

In providing that reminder, however, you don't want to perpetuate negative stereotypes (you don't want to seem like a sleazeball or to have some kind of prejudicial agenda, after all), nor do you want to choose a cue that is annoying to the other players. Basically, you want something that is at least benign, and at the same time easy to include in general RP consistently without becoming a one-note song. It needs to be something that's fairly natural, but is also easily and quickly identified with one gender or the other, without becoming so exaggerated it becomes parody or worse.

For first time cross-gender RPers, this can be tricky. Essentially, you do want to play something of a stereotypical character - an "average" male or female, someone right within the first standard deviations of the bell curve for that gender in most aspects of their personality. Ideally, you do want to have at least one unique trait to individualize the character and keep them from being bland, but essentially the character is going to be pretty two-dimensional. This isn't really a bad thing - the only characters I've seen that haven't been two-dimensional when they started out were one-dimensional :smallwink: The few well-rounded "starting" character usually were direct moves or a somewhat modified version of a character from a prior game (or occasionally a pre-existing story of some sort, at least). This is natural - until a player has actual RPed a character for a while, it's difficult to develop much beyond a short-hand personality of two or three main traits. Great characters build on and round out this base in a believable fashion over time. A cross-gender character is no different, except that the gender becomes one of the short-hand points the player has to make certain to establish properly early on. Once this is established in the players minds, if it has been done well the player can even stop, eventually, using the gender cue altogether without anyone forgetting that the character (for this thread) a guy even though the player is a girl.

The do nots are also important. Certain things are generally obviously offensive, but others aren't quite so clear cut. In particular, sometimes what would be okay for someone actually of the character's gender to do might come out poorly if the player isn't that gender, even if it's not meant in that manner. This isn't a double standard so much as the recognition that sometimes in order for it to be funny, the speaker has to have been in the same situation as the listeners, otherwise it comes across as insensitive (eg. soldiers can crack about even terrible things they saw in combat because they went through the bad aspects already and the humor is to some extent a coping mechanism; someone who didn't go through something similar is seen as not having the proper knowledge to understand where the humor is really coming from). Of course, YMMV for what does and does not cause offense, but it's still a good idea to have some general guidelines for what's acceptable.

In short, what first time cross-gender RPers are looking for are generalizations that aren't going to create an offensive character. With practice, you won't even need these to play a believable cross-gender character, and will be able to move from the short-hand personality into real character development much more quickly. Eventually, with enough experience and a group that's willing to trust your RP skill, you can start breaking the rules :smallbiggrin:

GammaPaladin
2008-03-26, 08:21 PM
Another thing that's interesting to know is this: Men and women have a different approach to victory/success. A woman is more likely to do the "slow and steady" approach (Example: Building a gigantic army in an RTS, slowly annihilating enemy outposts, replacing fallen troops before doing another attack), while a man is more likely to want to go instantly to the top and risk much on a single move (Example: An inventor who pours every single penny and shilling into an invention, hoping that CompanyCorps will like his idea and he'll become a multibillionaire, not having to worry about paying the bills anymore, free to focus on inventing). It shows subconsciously, and unlike most stereotypes, since this is an ingrained approach, is much less likely to be ignored.

Zincorium: O RLY? Planning Love as if it were War tends to be extremely effective. Unless the man was thoroughly incompatible with the supposed romantic interest, that tended to work extremely well.
Funny, I'm a slow, methodical, meticulous planner. When I play RTS games I generally love constructing defenses, and will expand slowly, moving heavy, obsessively designed defensive lines forward little by little, until I've managed to secure enough resources to completely max out the tech tree and my army cap.

Then I crush everyone in one all out assault.

Collin152
2008-03-26, 08:24 PM
Funny, I'm a slow, methodical, meticulous planner. When I play RTS games I generally love constructing defenses, and will expand slowly, moving heavy, obsessively designed defensive lines forward little by little, until I've managed to secure enough resources to completely max out the tech tree and my army cap.

Then I crush everyone in one all out assault.

Hail mighty Caesar!
I try doing that, but I get killed too quickly.
So I guess even computers realise I'm a weak person. Whoo.

FlyMolo
2008-03-26, 08:30 PM
Umm, try and have sex with everyone.

If your group isn't that kind of group, kill everything. If something insults you, kill it. No planning, just killing.

streakster
2008-03-26, 08:34 PM
Now, this is not true for all. But, on average, guys communicate less than women.

"Excellent argument against that!" you state. Wait. Here me out. (And, by the way, I'm not saying guys talk less. That'd be silly.)

In my job, workers are arranged into groups for each shift. Often this results in an all-male group and an all-female group. To this day, an all male group has yet to return from a 12-hour shift knowing each other's names. Most of the female groups, in contrast, act like they are already old friends by the time it's over.

Of course, this is merely a trend. It is no means true for all guys or girls. One thing I can offer that is sure to help, though, is to try to do a few common scenes, and watch for anything that might change due to gender. Practice is always good.

Arutema
2008-03-26, 08:39 PM
Don't ignore facial hair, both staying clean-shaven and keeping a neat beard require at least a little effort, and proper tools.

Unless you're playing a naturally hairless race like elves.

Swordguy
2008-03-26, 08:45 PM
Don't ignore facial hair, both staying clean-shaven and keeping a neat beard require at least a little effort, and proper tools.

Unless you're playing a naturally hairless race like elves.

If the OP was playing an elf, she wouldn't want advice on playing a man, now would she?

Gorbash Kazdar
2008-03-26, 08:52 PM
If the OP was playing an elf, she wouldn't want advice on playing a man, now would she?
Sigged! Haha, oh wow.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-26, 08:59 PM
If the OP was playing an elf, she wouldn't want advice on playing a man, now would she?

Half my elven characters have a bone to pick with you.

The other half flop their wrists and go "oh, you big thilly."

Dark Knight Renee
2008-03-26, 09:17 PM
*snip*
In face-to-face games, the general assumption tends to be that the character and the player share a gender - visual and audio cues from the player tend to reinforce this. The first few times I played a female character, I found that this was generally forgotten by the other players, and the "F" on the character sheet essentially ended up like the stereotypical disappearing familiar - worse, in fact, as the other players would default back to seeing the character as male unless specifically reminded. This can happen even in relatively RP heavy games. Thus, if you are really making a go at playing a character of another gender and want this to figure into the game, you have to find some way of continually reminding the other players (and yourself!) of the character's gender. *snip*
This is more of a problem in games where in-character actions and speech are handled in 1st person than in games where these things are described in 3rd person, as 3rd person uses gender pronouns, which can be helpful.

I learned to appreciate this recently when my sister decided to play a transvestite character, rendering the gender pronoun ineffective. :smallannoyed:



If the OP was playing an elf, she wouldn't want advice on playing a man, now would she?
:smallbiggrin: Girly-elf jokes usually annoy me, but that was a good one.

Admiral Squish
2008-03-26, 09:44 PM
A glimpse into the male psyche:

Person: What do you want?
Man: WO-MAN!
Person: What do you want even more than that?
Man: TWO WO-MAN!
Person: What do you want most of all?
Man: FIVE WO-MAN!

Just thought I could put it out there.

The_Werebear
2008-03-26, 09:47 PM
Well..

It really is difficult to give advice on this because I am not sure what is a male trait and what is a "me" trait. About all I can think of that hasn't been said was what I said about the Directness earlier.

bugsysservant
2008-03-26, 10:02 PM
Half my elven characters have a bone to pick with you.

The other half flop their wrists and go "oh, you big thilly."

Actually, what is the facial hair of half elves like? I don't really feel like digging out races of destiny right now to find out. Currently, I'm picturing permanent teenage stubble. Because they really don't suck enough mechanically as it is. Although, I suppose if they did have the facial hair of a 15 year old, they probably wouldn't have that bonus to diplomacy...

Zincorium
2008-03-26, 10:09 PM
Actually, what is the facial hair of half elves like? I don't really feel like digging out races of destiny right now to find out. Currently, I'm picturing permanent teenage stubble. Because they really don't suck enough mechanically as it is. Although, I suppose if they did have the facial hair of a 15 year old, they probably wouldn't have that bonus to diplomacy...

Canonically, Tanis HalfElven (did his parents not have last names, I wonder?) from the dragonlance setting has almost always been pictured with a pretty snazzy beard.

Collin152
2008-03-26, 10:16 PM
Canonically, Tanis HalfElven (did his parents not have last names, I wonder?) from the dragonlance setting has almost always been pictured with a pretty snazzy beard.

They had names. Human and Elven. He thought neither would work very well.



The other half flop their wrists and go "oh, you big thilly."
Oh, you better be glad I'm not in an agitable mood.

dyslexicfaser
2008-03-26, 10:40 PM
When not in dobut (about gender), hit on something.

On the subject of what an average male is willing to hit on, I will refer to a quote from Leela of Futurama, a woman with a lot of 'masculine' traits: "I don't care how many eyes a man has - as long as it's less than 5."

I draw the line at five sensory organs. This is, of course, subject to negotiation after a few beers.

EDIT: Tanis's mother was Elansa something-or-other (Sungold? Sunhair? Something.), and his father was some scary brigand with a knife and a black beard. It was in the book Steel and Stone, and I think there was another one, The Inheritance?

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-26, 11:20 PM
PHB Elves have no facial hair or body hair according to their physical description. In contrast Half-elves are described as being paler, fairer and smoother-skinned than their human parents.

Werewindlefr
2008-03-26, 11:25 PM
Many people on this thread actually advised you to be careful with stereotypes; I will go a bit further than that: since masculinity and feminity are ill-defined notions at best, extremely relative to the culture, society, and time; since a good part of personality is forged in subtle-and-little-understoof ways through experience, environment, and society, it is not very easy to actually define what "roleplaying a male" should be. In a Iain Banks' "Culture"-like setting, the answer would most likely be "the same as a female". In many medieval culture, for an average guy, as a pig convinced by his own superiority. The main guideline is to wonder what society your character comes from thinks about men and women; and to build your character's personality from there.

Ascension
2008-03-26, 11:53 PM
Like some others, let me say that this thread has helped me realize just how far I am from the masculine stereotype. The jury's still out on whether this is a good thing or not.

Interestingly enough, my characters tend not to be nearly as indecisive as I am. I admire the ability to take decisive action at a moment's notice, but it isn't a trait I have in reality. It's easier in games since the worst thing that can result is having to fill out a new character sheet. Well, unless you're in a Chick tract... Not Blackleaf!

By the way, I think the classic dandy can be quite masculine if played correctly. He just needs a more dashing alter-ego to focus his masculinity. Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernel, etc.. Some writers/artists even portray Bruce Wayne as little more than a clotheshorse. As the avatar may suggest, I love fops (not in that way).

Collin152
2008-03-26, 11:56 PM
Like some others, let me say that this thread has helped me realize just how far I am from the masculine stereotype. The jury's still out on whether this is a good thing or not.

Interestingly enough, my characters tend not to be nearly as indecisive as I am. I admire the ability to take decisive action at a moment's notice, but it isn't a trait I have in reality. It's easier in games since the worst thing that can result is having to fill out a new character sheet. Well, unless you're in a Chick tract... Not Blackleaf!

By the way, I think the classic dandy can be quite masculine if played correctly. He just needs a more dashing alter-ego to focus his masculinity. Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernel, etc.. Some writers/artists even portray Bruce Wayne as little more than a clotheshorse. As the avatar may suggest, I love fops (not in that way).

Shush! Call not out the name of Jack Chick, lest his spirit find us and strike us where we stand!

geez3r
2008-03-26, 11:56 PM
There's a 3 step process to playing a male character

1. Goals
2. Planning
3. Action

Goals: This can be long term, but make sure you have quite a few short term goals as well. This is essentially what makes the character go to bed happy. In another way: What do you want to accomplish? Examples: Kill that dragon, One up Mr. Fancy Pants, Look good in front of that girl, EAT.

Planning: This is mostly subconscious or instinctual. At this point, a guy runs down his list of goals and prioritizes them. He then takes stock of his resources, and figures out the best way to meet as many of his top tier goals in one shot. Most guys adopt a set of guidelines that traditionally will meet their goals with their standard stock of resources. This step is quite important as it defines your character's personality. This is what he will do on a day to day routine, but add something else into the mix and he'll have to adapt. Examples: Act macho to impress girls, Go to the gym to stay fit, Attempt to be funny around women, Impress girls with your smarts

Action: Most men prefer action to deliberation, so when they finally arrive at a decision they go ahead full steam with it. That does not mean that they won't deliberate before an action or hesitate, but once they latch onto a decision it becomes the right decision in their mind. Essentially go with your gut, and tough it out from then on.

Corsec1337
2008-03-27, 12:18 AM
Freud was kind of out there, I'm not going to disagree. I'm getting a minor in Sociology so his stuff pops up and what not.

If you do not fall into these very broad descriptions of what it means to be a man; do remember that we are all individuals. We have all experinced life in a unique way and are different from it.

If you have never had an experince "cross roleplaying" the opposite gender, I recommend you give it a try. It's fun to role play sterotypes. I have a friend right now that is playing a half-orc that's so ugly and bulky that he named it "Amanda" whose gender isn't known. The running gag is to streatch out the name to "A-Man-Duh".

dyslexicfaser
2008-03-27, 01:09 AM
As the avatar may suggest, I love fops (not in that way).

Also, when playing a man, make sure to not ever, in any way, say anything that could be inferred as homosexual. If you do, backpedal immediately and vehemently.

Lord Tataraus
2008-03-27, 01:20 AM
You know what? Pay more attention to the guys arguing about masculinity than what they are actually saying, I'm sure you'll get a better idea of. On that note, I must say that I do have some of these traits. Of course, I have examined himself a lot more than the average person, I think most people don't realize they actually do reflect these common traits. Things I have noticed about myself (all things are negative of course, hardly notice the positive :smallannoyed: )

Focused: One step at a time, I get lost easily when I talk with my sister, I have no idea how shes connects some stuff. I am a horrible multi-tasker.
Desire for Authority: Though this is usually subconscious (from what I've observed), for others it is more conscious. Personally, my masculine drive for authority really screws with my psyche because I am an extremely timid.
Decisive: Males are normally more decisive than females, though this might be because I am extremely decisive, I knew second guess answer on a test until after it is turned in and I instantly know which answer to choose.
Proud: Men are extremely proud and like to show it. Not to say women are not, but in my experience the tend to be less so.

My 2 cents.

Kalirren
2008-03-27, 01:24 AM
I'm just going to second (third? fourth?) Lairship's advice, and possibly elaborate. A -man- who is just like you is a rival; not necessarily only a rival, but always a rival. A -woman- who is just like you is a perfect soulmate, and may also be a rival. Almost everything else I've heard here (the decision-making by authority, the single-mindedness, the homophobia) is based upon some weird Romerichristian vision of masculinity that I didn't really grow up with, and don't really find to be true iRL.

But the idea that someone who comes close to filling the same niche as you are is encroaching on your territory is very true for men in general, and definitely not as true for women in general. Aside from that? Most other differences are culturally founded (i.e., not physiologically inherent), and one should treat them as such. It may well be, for example, that your male character will also be an authoritarian inflexible homophobe, but these are things that one is taught and are ingrained, just like the way one keeps one's posture, or is trained to make eye contact.

Kizara
2008-03-27, 02:11 AM
As I said in the female thread, men prefer the concrete, understandable and definable.
They attempt to see things in such terms as well.

Women prefer the abstract, the complicated and the emoitional.


An example of this is how women prefer artistic endevors and soap-operas.

Arts (like, really creative arts, not creating life-like sculptures of things) are often very subjective and abstract.

Soap-operas are emoitional, complicated, and more involved with the drama of emoition then having any interest in the characters achieving discernable goals each episode.


Another example is Survivor (the TV show). Now, at first I was extremely interested in this show, as the concept sounded great and I was a camping enthusist at the time.

However, I quickly found that I didn't care for the show at all for the following reasons:

1) The people most able to survive/succeed were at a disadvantage/screwed because they would get voted off because other's felt threatened by them. This offended my sensibilities, and in-and-of-itself would've made me stop watching the show.

2) the show was vastly more interested in the 'gamemanship" of it's contestants, the social backstabbing, the alliances and so forth then the actual struggle to survive. Sure, I like a little drama and challanges for leadership, but when the show revolves around who can be the most underhanded I'm done with it.

3) The female contestants were somewhat cute, which held my attention briefly. However, the best looking one's always got voted off the fastest cause the uglier, bitter and schemy girls would get them voted off.

4) Randomizing of teams, often arbitary nature of 'challanges' and general artifical feel to the show. The challange wasn't "find food, make a shelter, assert your dominance" it was "figure out some assinine riddle, scheme with your 'friends' to screw someone over, try to stay out of the fire yourself".


Likewise, I find that on-average, women enjoy/follow Survivor and its spin-offs alot more then men do.

Khanderas
2008-03-27, 02:46 AM
To list a number of stereotypes and generalizations...
(And I can list multiple exceptions among the people I know for each one, so don't go crazy on me, okay?)

Men are typically more blunt and narrowly focused than women. This usually comes across in conversation and speech more than anywhere else, but will also come across in action. Take shopping methods, for example. :smalltongue: No window shopping or recreation- they get what they came for and leave. It's simple.

However, this also means more intense dedication to a single thing. I would guess that male characters would be more likely to be specialist wizards, if you want to think of it that way. :smallwink:

Another thing that comes from this is a certain lack of... politeness? Frankness, direct insults (As in, saying them to someone's face or writing them where they are accessible- I know a lot of women who complain behind backs, so it doesn't work there) and crude comments are marginally more common among men. Of course, don't go spouting off curse words at every turn- that's not in character either (unless you're playing an avid, rabid, internet user, in which case it will work just fine! :smallbiggrin:)

Men are also more likely to "tough it out" and be independent than women. They less frequently draw comfort from the presence of others (though whether this is because they need it less or just do it less for various reasons I won't get into) and tend to stew as opposed to work out emotions by sharing them.

Self-image. Men, for whatever reason, tend to be more sure of their appearance, actions, and general worth. Worry less about what people think of you (though this has a very, very common exception to it), what you wear, etc.

*awaits smiting and shouts of "evil stereotypes!*
This post is full of truth and win. I have little to add but perhaps connecting the Self-image thing with independence paragraph. As in, "all" men is a seperate unit, independent of most anyone and therefore appear more sure of his general worth.

Subtlety is for women, if I think you suck, I either tell you so, or not (it is unwise to tell your boss he sucks). Heck I have plenty of times told people to zip it, almost only for their reaction :smallamused:

Focus and Toughing it out are also connected. We can see the big picture fine, but anything that can be fixed gets fixed one part at a time. If it can't be fixed (or fixed easily enough) we tough it out.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-27, 04:10 AM
I'm gonna have to say that this is the best advice so far in this thread.

Thanks. MUSHes are a bit of a special case. You don't see the other characters (except when you specifically look at them), so your impression of their gender is like 90% based on how the character acts.

I see plenty of female characters played by men who just come across as male in the majority of their interactions, and vice versa. Using stereotypical gender cues moderately is effective. They're not the personality of the character, but rather external or apparent traits that make for "quick and dirty gender identification". It's even more useful and important in tabletop where you're playing cross-gender, since the other people are seeing the gender opposite of that of the character portrayed.

The problems start when you give the character no personality other than gendered stereotypes, like Robert Jordan. (No wonder he wrote Conan novels, the second most sexist and heteronormative subgenre of fantasy.)


Hmm... Lets bust out Freud.

Let's not, considering his theories had nothing to do with empiricism or reality, and he actively disdained science. (He actually wrote that he was "a conquistador, not a scientist".)

Roderick_BR
2008-03-27, 05:05 AM
Men are typically more blunt and narrowly focused than women. This usually comes across in conversation and speech more than anywhere else, but will also come across in action. Take shopping methods, for example. :smalltongue: No window shopping or recreation- they get what they came for and leave. It's simple.Except in some specific cases. My father can spend all day window shopping for clothes.


Another thing that comes from this is a certain lack of... politeness? Frankness, direct insults (As in, saying them to someone's face or writing them where they are accessible- I know a lot of women who complain behind backs, so it doesn't work there) and crude comments are marginally more common among men. Of course, don't go spouting off curse words at every turn- that's not in character either (unless you're playing an avid, rabid, internet user, in which case it will work just fine! :smallbiggrin:)
True. Men tend to be more blunt and to the point, except when they need to avoid a topic :smalltongue:

SuperPanda
2008-03-27, 05:29 AM
I saw it said only once, and it bears repeating:

All of the notions we have of masculine and feminine characters are purely based in the cultures we live in and not in the cultures we are writing stories for.


I have personally run stories set in the Beowulf's Saxony, the Roman Empire, Feudal Japan, and Victorian england. All of them to the last have very different expectations for what masculinity and femininity are.

It is farm more important to note what race and class you are playing before noting what gender you are playing in most settings and even more important to check with your DM for setting and cultural information.

----

Now if you are playing a human man of approximately average stats in the modern day there are some pieces of advice you should look at. But it is much more important to look at the reasons behind those behaviors and see if they even apply to your setting.


Men see someone closely resembling themselves as a rival:

I've found this often the case, but more often I've found that people (men and women) who see someone who embodies what they want to be strive to become better than that person or resort to complaining about them behind their backs. Occasionally I see them actually try to take that person down a peg.

The idea of men seeing a good friend as a rival is very modern America and really doesn't date that far back in literature and the like. It is true that men in literature, and particularly in fiction, do not tend to group together with people who are exactly like themselves, but in fantasy stories neither do females. The desire to feel important and unique in some fashion is very important to our species as a whole, and it is part of our evolutionary need to survive.


Men are decisive and prefer to act instead of talk about it.

This is because in our culture men who don't find themselves naturally doing this are ridiculed and no one is looking for how to give men a hand out. This is not to say that men are discriminated against, I would never say that unless I was possessed by a demon and looking to start a flame-war (I learned my lesson in college when I argued innate semantic discrimination in the theory of feminist literary criticism and was thereafter the person the teacher pointed out as the naysayer for all civil rights claims from that day on).

Men in Modern America, and in most eras are brought up with the expectation that no one is going to hand them anything if they don't work for it and/or earn it. This leads to the above trait, if your character wasn't raised with that expectation they won't have that trait.

In the area of love, Men are decisive because that is their gender roll. Women are not expected or required to make any action until after than man has acted and clearly stated their intentions.


hit on things....

Really... don't. It doesn't fit in a Fantasy game even if it is despressingly common. Men try not to admit they know the sort of people who use pick-up-lines. And those few of us who would rather affect the Queen's English and discuss metaphysics into the late hours of the night would rather never be reminded that a large amount of the American Male population is living proof of Darwin's Origin of the Species.


Remember to never say anything that remotely suggests that you are have ever had a homosexual thought or tendency, and if you do immediately back peddle.

This comes from the fact that in most cultures men are expected to be the initiator/aggressor of romantic situations. Think of a situation where someone you really didn't like was interested in you, and then have them be aggressively apparent that they want to be with you. Men are expected to do this when approaching women and they feel the same way about someone doing it to them as women who don't like the man in question feel about it. They just seem to lack the eloquence to say it or the humility to admit it.


Its okay to express emotion so long as you never cry or scream
Far from the truth, though very accurate for the tropes of a Fantasy story. Counter examples are very common.

Since in a Fantasy story I've almost never seen characters scream or cry you can go with it. As a general rule, if the culture is like our modern one, men will have a tendency to have their emotional moments off camera when possible. Cultural descriptions of Masculinity that portray them as indomitable by fear and sorrow will leave men with the feeling that they've no one to turn to in times of crisis, further influencing the tendency for decisiveness and creating a need to do things themselves. This is also the same cultural expectation that is responsible for a lack of communication among male groups about personal matters.


Men are more aggressive

This is one of the few biologically backed arguments that could be made for the gender difference. Testosterone is at a higher level in men and it creates an increased aggressive tendency, but the real scope of the chemical difference is so small that it is hardly worth noting. Between males and females I have known the only times when the males have chosen violence as an answer to a problem over the females choosing it was in situations where it was culturally expected. Someone physically threatening a friend generally evokes a physical response from any able bodied individual of either gender, someone talking smack about a friend is more likely to evoke a physical response in males because it is the expected (and often desired) response.


Men are less subtle and Empathic

- William Shakespeare
- Geoffrey Chaucer
- Johnathan Swift (humor and particularly satire requires a great deal of empathy to convey the point adequately)
- Alexander Pope
- Oscar Wilde

Men are not only capable of subtlety and empathy but they are often equally capable of such feats as women. In truth this is another cultural issue whereby in our current era such traits are considered feminine and therefore unattractive in a male. (or more accurately attractive in the male as bonuses to the package but not as the primary selling points).

Often Subtle and empathic males in our modern day will use such traits contrary to their natural state in such becoming deceitful and manipulative. The stereotype of the man who charms women just to sleep with them and then dumps them is very common and it requires both empathy (knowing how to charm them) and subtlety (keeping them from learning what he really is).


Men are more logical based than women and consider emotion less
This again is purely cultural. Men are more prone to cost-benefit analysis as they are judged on the resources they bring to the table far more often than women. Women are more often judged for their appearance but men are more often judged on what they are useful for. Having other people frequently consider interaction with you on the basis of how your interaction benefits them leads you to think the same way, if only in self defense.


In closing: Check with your DM for a setting. None of these examples holds much sway if you are suppose to play a man in the era of King Henry VIII.

Historical Fact: As part of a bid to one up France and prove that England was indeed better he invited the King of France to a festival in England where each day he put on a new suit of even more lavish clothing which could be worn only once.

He also wrote love poetry exhaustively when he met Ann and was sometimes caught in bed for prolonged periods of time with anxiety over whether or not she would accept his advances.

All of this was considered masculine in his day (love sickness was actually considered a noble trait as it proved that your affections were real and therefore holy. Think Romeo in Romeo and Juliet... he was a man's man in that day and age).

In the end, play something fun and forget everything else. Its a game, nothing else is really important.

GammaPaladin
2008-03-27, 05:38 AM
Also, when playing a man, make sure to not ever, in any way, say anything that could be inferred as homosexual. If you do, backpedal immediately and vehemently.

Note that this doesn't necessarily apply if you're playing a game set in say, ancient Greece.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-27, 05:43 AM
Note that this doesn't necessarily apply if you're playing a game set in say, ancient Greece.

Or, uh, the modern day.

Or a Norse-type setting (although being the "receiver" was considered shameful).

Or any of countless other settings where attitudes toward homosexuality differ from various religious conservative views...

Yeah, no offence to dyslexicfaser, but that was an awful piece of advice.

Werewindlefr
2008-03-27, 06:30 AM
I have personally run stories set in the Beowulf's Saxony, the Roman Empire, Feudal Japan, and Victorian england. All of them to the last have very different expectations for what masculinity and femininity are.
I completely agree with this; giving an absolute definition of concepts that are very relative is extremely difficult. It is best to try to find the "local" cultural definition of what is masculine and feminine in the kingdom-or-whatever where your character was raised. This is what really matters: what people think a man should be. And nobody here can really answer, because most replies give you the 2008-occidental definition of "Masculinity".

Cubey
2008-03-27, 06:33 AM
How to play a MAN? Simple:

Surpass the impossible and kick reason to the curb! That is our way!
Who the hell do you think I am?!

Mr. Friendly
2008-03-27, 06:44 AM
To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in As Good as it Gets:

Think of a woman and add reason and accountability.

:smalltongue:

I got nothin'...

Men and Women can be radically different or strikingly similar. It all depends on the person...

Dryad
2008-03-27, 07:30 AM
From my experience, from the people I've seen, and know, men try to become better than themselves, constantly. They often see themselves as their competition, where women constantly bicker amongst one another. (Yes, working with only women as your colleagues is absolute hell. Everyone is bickering, slandering, gossipping, and generally trying to make one another feel unwanted.) Men are generally not interested in that kind of thing, and tend to solve problems as a team a lot more. Men, in general, do indeed spend more time judging one another on competence, and resourcefulness, then women are.

Also, men seem to talk little, and use little subtlety, but I've often got a response, from a man, like: "Didn't you get that? He just said..." And I needed it translated. Because men generally, in my experience, communicate more with body-language, adding non-verbal subtleties to verbal communication that seemed, at first, straightforward.
No offense to the men, of course, but since I learned thát, I suddenly understood why men make such horrid typers, on forums in general. (I must say that this forum seems to be an exception. :smallbiggrin: ) They often don't include any kind of punctuation. And I think that's to do with the male non-verbal communication, as written language does not allow for it.

Also, men tend to be more stoïc. If faced with danger, men may tremble in fear, but they're supposed to act, no matter what. Hide your emotions as best you can, and afterward, find a quiet place, all to yourself, and cry.

As noted before: Don't scream. Men don't, not in Modern Europe, anyway. It's okay to cry, but don't sob.

As for hitting on people: Trust me; women are a lot better at that. :smallwink:
Men are often clumsy, or try to be boastful, when approaching a romantic interest, and, honoustly, give up on that after their first try. Perhaps, if you really want to hit on people as a male character, then learn to flirt. Either that, or fail miserably. (Which is fun to play!)

And the previous people were right: Most gender stereotypes are folly based on cultural values rather then biological ones. Keep that in mind!

Ascension
2008-03-27, 08:23 AM
How to play a MAN? Simple:

Surpass the impossible and kick reason to the curb! That is our way!
Who the hell do you think I am?!

Okay, you just won the thread. No need for anymore posts.

"I will dig a hole to pierce the heavens! Even if that hole becomes my grave, as long as I break through, I will be victorious!"

Frosty
2008-03-27, 10:27 AM
I think men tend to admit defeat less, and refuse to cut their losses and run for longer than women.

Triaxx
2008-03-27, 02:32 PM
It's easy. If it moves, poke it with a stick. If it doesn't move, build somethig around it. The only difference from a woman, is you have your choice of sticks.

---

Seriously though, remember that everything has a reason. It might not be a good reason, in fact it's not even required to be a sane reason. But we have a reason for everything we do. The little voices in my head is an acceptable reason.

Yes, we think constantly about sex. Anyone who says different is lying. But we don't act on it. Only stereotypes hit on everything with cleavage. The occasional to-hit roll on a tavern wench is acceptable though, unless you're a Eunuch.

It's okay to be very protective of things. Your mount, your wife, random travelers, your mount. It's acceptable to hit a buddy attempting anything in relation to any of these, particularly the mount. (Kill him if you find him mounting the wife. :smallwink:)

Make the rash decision once in a while. A barbarian charging where stealth is a better option. A wizard dropping a fireball on his own party, just to get to the enemy. The halfling rogue backstabbing the Half-orc fighter, just because he can't see. (Done the first two, seen the last.)

Swordguy
2008-03-27, 02:53 PM
Yes, we think constantly about sex. Anyone who says different is lying. But we don't act on it.


This is full of truth and win. In roughly equal proportions.

Solo
2008-03-27, 02:58 PM
As for hitting on people: Trust me; women are a lot better at that.

The only way to settle on this is for us to go hit on people and take notes as to their reactions.

If this is impractical, we could hit on each other and see who is better at it.

dyslexicfaser
2008-03-27, 03:05 PM
How to play a MAN? Simple:

Surpass the impossible and kick reason to the curb! That is our way!
Who the hell do you think I am?!

Kamino is the best role model ever.

The Rose Dragon
2008-03-27, 03:11 PM
To play a man, take a woman and remove all logic and reason.

Then add testosterone to the max. Violence should be in the guy's sweat, basically. So should be lust.

In fact, just add the seven carnal sins to make sure.

pendell
2008-03-27, 04:15 PM
3 rules to playing a male character, based on my 36+ years of being male:

1) Dial up the confidence/ego/arrogance.
2) Dial up the macho.
3) Dial down the empathy/willingness to see the other person's point of view/willingness to put up with other people's BS.

Adjust these dials depending on the *kind* of male you're playing. A calm, well-adjusted character (like, say, the stereotypical Catholic Priest) should have these traits muted but still present than the same character played as female. By contrast, if one is playing an excessively testosterone-charged character (say, Conan), ramp these dials up to the extreme end of the spectrum.

In fact, that's the simple rule. Play your male character as Conan. Conan -- or Chuck Norris -- is a great male archetype, something many males secretly wish to be. Even if they're 98 pound weaklings who couldn't lift a sword, they still aspire to be the Alpha who conquers all (if not through swordplay, then through brainpower or magic or cunning), gets the girl, and goes off to live forever in a castle surrounded by adoring fans.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

cody.burton
2008-03-27, 04:40 PM
In fact, that's the simple rule. Play your male character as Conan. Conan -- or Chuck Norris -- is a great male archetype, something many all males secretly wish to be. Even if they're 98 pound weaklings who couldn't lift a sword, they still aspire to be the Alpha who conquers all (if not through swordplay, then through brainpower or magic or cunning), gets the girl, and goes off to live forever in a castle surrounded by adoring fans.

Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

Collin152
2008-03-27, 05:24 PM
Also, when playing a man, make sure to not ever, in any way, say anything that could be inferred as homosexual. If you do, backpedal immediately and vehemently.

:mad:
Don't make me destroy you.
I am man, hear me whine!

Talic
2008-03-27, 05:44 PM
To play a man, take a woman and remove all logic and reason.

Then add testosterone to the max. Violence should be in the guy's sweat, basically. So should be lust.

In fact, just add the seven carnal sins to make sure.

Actually, men tend to be more logic oriented. Goes with problem solving mentality. While this certainly doesn't hold universally true, men tend to try to fix problems and move on.

Women, however, tend to be more emotional thinkers; or rather, they tend to be more in touch with their emotions, and take them into account more. Less likely to go directly for solving a problem, more likely to try to learn about a situation. This tends to make them less logical and analytical.

Again, this is a tendency, not a rule. I've known women that were very direct, logical, and out of touch with emotions. I've also known men who were more interested in feelings than solving problems (I think I generally call them Liberals, but that's beside the point).