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chevalier
2008-03-27, 08:58 PM
Hi,

I have been playind D&D off and on since 1993...I am DMing my first campaign (3.5 ed) in years and years. I found (and like every good DM, stole) a great idea on the web; a tug of war between the PCs and an ogre or ogres. My question is, how do I calculate the player's aggregate strength role vs the ogre's? Is is like aid another, or something different?

Also, if the ogre loses, he may get mad and decide to go after the PCs barehanded. The monster manual only has damage stats for the orc with a greatclub; what would an ogre's bareanded melee attack and damage with a barehanded slam/swipe/punch be?

Sorry if the question is too noob. Thanks for the help.

Chris

AslanCross
2008-03-27, 09:11 PM
Hi,

I have been playind D&D off and on since 1993...I am DMing my first campaign (3.5 ed) in years and years. I found (and like every good DM, stole) a great idea on the web; a tug of war between the PCs and an ogre or ogres. My question is, how do I calculate the player's aggregate strength role vs the ogre's? Is is like aid another, or something different?

Also, if the ogre loses, he may get mad and decide to go after the PCs barehanded. The monster manual only has damage stats for the orc with a greatclub; what would an ogre's bareanded melee attack and damage with a barehanded slam/swipe/punch be?

Sorry if the question is too noob. Thanks for the help.

Chris

To be a noob is to learn. Nothing wrong with that.

Anyway, I'd do it this way:
1. Add all the PCs' strength bonuses (unless all of them are high-STR characters, it shouldn't be a problem) and use this as the modifier with which you do your strength check. If they're all high-strength, just use the highest.
2. Opposed strength checks between the ogre and the aggregate strength bonus.
3. Success means the rope is pulled in that direction. Depending on how much the check succeeds, it might move the rope more.
4. Repeat this per round until someone wins/gives up.

As for the ogre, he has no natural slam attacks. His bare fists would deal the appropriate damage for an unarmed strike from a large creature (that is, 1d4 plus STR modifier). Unarmed strikes are considered light weapons, and so don't benefit from Power Attack.

RTGoodman
2008-03-27, 09:35 PM
Aslan's method sounds good. The only thing I might change would be, instead of just adding Str bonuses, just have the guy with the highest Str make the check, and have everyone else try to use the Aid Another action. That is, have them each try to make a DC 10 Str check, and if they succeed "main puller" gets a +2 per success. You could do this by round, or if not just do it at the beginning of the combat and use the same result each time.

I'd say to win you have to have either 3 or 5 successful rounds of pulling in a row.

As far as the ogre and unarmed combat, just drop it's Weapon Focus (Greatclub) feat and give it Improved Unarmed Strike instead. With that, it won't provoke attacks of opportunity for using unarmed strikes and it'll be able to do lethal damage with them

Infinity_Biscuit
2008-03-27, 09:36 PM
If you want to just get straight up pulling-power, add up all the carrying capacities on both sides. This would probably be good for determining if one side or the other has no realistic chance to begin with, but then that's not really much fun at all.

If your players don't want to do all the rolling themselves, you could look at this as a guide for assigning a bonus to one side and just roll one opposed check each "round" of pulling.

Gaiwecoor
2008-03-27, 09:40 PM
Unarmed strikes are considered light weapons, and so don't benefit from Power Attack.

I think Aslan has a good method for handling the tug-of-war. Just a quick correction on the quoted bit above: Although unarmed strikes are light weapons, they are specifically allowed to benefit from Power Attack. If your ogre has it, let him use it.

On a secondary note about unarmed attacks: it's good to remember that unarmed strikes can provoke attacks of opportunity, unless they have Improved Unarmed Strike. If your party thinks to pick up their weapons, or they have Improved Unarmed Strike when he starts to pummel them, let them get their extra hits in.

Have fun with the game!

Thinker
2008-03-27, 10:26 PM
I think Aslan has a good method for handling the tug-of-war. Just a quick correction on the quoted bit above: Although unarmed strikes are light weapons, they are specifically allowed to benefit from Power Attack. If your ogre has it, let him use it.

On a secondary note about unarmed attacks: it's good to remember that unarmed strikes can provoke attacks of opportunity, unless they have Improved Unarmed Strike. If your party thinks to pick up their weapons, or they have Improved Unarmed Strike when he starts to pummel them, let them get their extra hits in.

Have fun with the game!

They get nothing if they are flatfooted and don't have combat reflexes. Good day.

Gaiwecoor
2008-03-28, 12:37 AM
They get nothing if they are flatfooted and don't have combat reflexes. Good day.

Aye, but when was the last time an ogre took out an entire party in one round, eh? :smallwink: Any intelligent party should be able to get their hits in against an unarmed ogre.

(No, I'm not volunteering to go against an ogre. I'm pretty sure it'd eat me :smalleek: )

Talic
2008-03-28, 01:30 AM
I think Aslan has a good method for handling the tug-of-war. Just a quick correction on the quoted bit above: Although unarmed strikes are light weapons, they are specifically allowed to benefit from Power Attack. If your ogre has it, let him use it.

On a secondary note about unarmed attacks: it's good to remember that unarmed strikes can provoke attacks of opportunity, unless they have Improved Unarmed Strike. If your party thinks to pick up their weapons, or they have Improved Unarmed Strike when he starts to pummel them, let them get their extra hits in.

Have fun with the game!

Oh, a correction to this. While certain attacks do provoke attacks of opportunity (grapple checks, sunder, unarmed attacks), the only time you may TAKE an attack of opportunity is if you threaten the opponent.

This means that an ogre can punch with impunity from 10 feet away, unless a PC has reach.

LibraryOgre
2008-03-28, 01:36 AM
Why is this ogre making unarmed attacks when he has a nice, big whip handy?

Nothing says loving like everyone making a trip defense because they let the ogre have a 50' rope

AslanCross
2008-03-28, 04:22 AM
Why is this ogre making unarmed attacks when he has a nice, big whip handy?

Nothing says loving like everyone making a trip defense because they let the ogre have a 50' rope

This is also a really good and potentially hilarious scenario.

Talic
2008-03-28, 05:09 AM
Even if technically, the whip's only 30 feet long. Unless the ogre has some sort of reach extending ability, which makes it 45.

its_all_ogre
2008-03-28, 05:52 AM
i'd make it aid another, adding up the strength bonuses would make it too easy. plus i'd be tempted to use the grapple rules for the tug of war and give the ogre it's size modifier.
did a similar thing in an old game of mine where the players had to wrestle an ogre and pin him down for one round. great fun, aid another actions kept failing and finally the paladin got a lucky roll and pinned it all on his own!!

Kekken
2008-03-28, 08:01 AM
Quick correction.


You can't add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealth with a light weapon (except from unarmed strikes or natural attacks)...

PHB, page 98. Empasis mine.

Remember, boys and girls. Specific always beats general. D&D is all about exceptions to the rule. Heck, ALL roleplaying games are about exceptions to the rule.

chevalier
2008-03-28, 08:08 AM
Thanks to all, especially AslanCross, for the information!

Where is the table with large creatures doing 1d4 unarmed strike damage?



Why is this ogre making unarmed attacks when he has a nice, big whip handy?

Nothing says loving like everyone making a trip defense because they let the ogre have a 50' rope

I did actually take into account the ogre's 10 ft reach; I did not think of it using the rope--could make things interesting.

Thanks!

Chris

RTGoodman
2008-03-28, 08:21 AM
Where is the table with large creatures doing 1d4 unarmed strike damage?

Well, the table here (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/weapons.html) lists Medium unarmed strikes as doing 1d3 damage. The smaller table concerning weapon size says that a 1d3 Medium weapon becomes 1d4 for Large. Of course, it's nonlethal unless he has Monk levels, so if you actually want to endanger your PCs, you may still want to give him Improved Unarmed Strike.

Gaiwecoor
2008-03-28, 09:25 AM
Why is this ogre making unarmed attacks when he has a nice, big whip handy?

Nothing says loving like everyone making a trip defense because they let the ogre have a 50' rope

BWAHAHA! Very nice! That's why I love the ingenuity of you guys :smallbiggrin:

Dervag
2008-03-28, 09:33 AM
Well, the table here (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/weapons.html) lists Medium unarmed strikes as doing 1d3 damage. The smaller table concerning weapon size says that a 1d3 Medium weapon becomes 1d4 for Large. Of course, it's nonlethal unless he has Monk levels, so if you actually want to endanger your PCs, you may still want to give him Improved Unarmed Strike.Actually, I'd think the party would be in terrible danger if they were all knocked unconscious by ogres. The ogres might very well tie them up, haul them back to the cave, and eat them alive.

chevalier
2008-03-28, 03:18 PM
Well, the table here (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/weapons.html) lists Medium unarmed strikes as doing 1d3 damage. The smaller table concerning weapon size says that a 1d3 Medium weapon becomes 1d4 for Large. Of course, it's nonlethal unless he has Monk levels, so if you actually want to endanger your PCs, you may still want to give him Improved Unarmed Strike.

the 1d4 is a perfectly logical extrapolation. I am giving the rope-pulling ogre improved unarmed strike so that the attacks do lethal damage. I would just leave the poor fellow with his greatclub, but this is not supposed to a killer encounter, and the damage he could put out has a pretty good chance of TPKing my 2nd level party.

(somewhat OT: It seems to me that unarmed strikes from a creature 1-2 size classes larger should do SOME lethal damage, even if the monster doesn't have natural weapons. I mean if falling 10 feet does actual damage, shouldn't an ogre or giant smacking you with a huge fist do some also? Or if a half-orc kicks a jermalaine in the gut?)

Thanks again to everyone.

Chris

chevalier
2008-03-28, 03:18 PM
Well, the table here (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/weapons.html) lists Medium unarmed strikes as doing 1d3 damage. The smaller table concerning weapon size says that a 1d3 Medium weapon becomes 1d4 for Large. Of course, it's nonlethal unless he has Monk levels, so if you actually want to endanger your PCs, you may still want to give him Improved Unarmed Strike.

the 1d4 is a perfectly logical extrapolation. I am giving the rope-pulling ogre improved unarmed strike so that the attacks do lethal damage. I would just leave the poor fellow with his greatclub, but this is not supposed to a killer encounter, and the damage he could put out has a pretty good chance of TPKing my 2nd level party.

(somewhat OT: It seems to me that unarmed strikes from a creature 1-2 size classes larger should do SOME lethal damage, even if the monster doesn't have natural weapons. I mean if falling 10 feet does actual damage, shouldn't an ogre or giant smacking you with a huge fist do some also? Or if a half-orc kicks a jermalaine in the gut?)

Thanks again to everyone.

Chris

Talic
2008-03-28, 03:21 PM
the 1d4 is a perfectly logical extrapolation. I am giving the rope-pulling ogre improved unarmed strike so that the attacks do lethal damage. I would just leave the poor fellow with his greatclub, but this is not supposed to a killer encounter, and the damage he could put out has a pretty good chance of TPKing my 2nd level party.

(somewhat OT: It seems to me that unarmed strikes from a creature 1-2 size classes larger should do SOME lethal damage, even if the monster doesn't have natural weapons. I mean if falling 10 feet does actual damage, shouldn't an ogre or giant smacking you with a huge fist do some also? Or if a half-orc kicks a jermalaine in the gut?)

Thanks again to everyone.

Chris

Sure. Have the ogre take a -4 to hit, and deal lethal.

Bear in mind, ogre still gets his full str mod of yes. He can disable/knock out characters rather easily with punches.

chevalier
2008-03-28, 03:34 PM
Sure. Have the ogre take a -4 to hit, and deal lethal.

Bear in mind, ogre still gets his full str mod of yes. He can disable/knock out characters rather easily with punches.

You mean full strength mod of dmg, right?

CLW

TheThan
2008-03-28, 04:17 PM
bah, just make him a ogre monk, solves all your unarmed strike problems. and it shouldn't matter what his class is for the tug o' war.

Infinity_Biscuit
2008-03-28, 05:53 PM
bah, just make him a ogre monk, solves all your unarmed strike problems. and it shouldn't matter what his class is for the tug o' war.
Barbarian might make a notable difference.