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MightyIgoo
2008-03-28, 02:07 PM
I'm starting out in a new game with some new people, and I'm thinking of playing a druid. I like the idea of playing a person for whom the outdoors is his workplace, and the animals are his colleagues. My animal companion (a bear) will be referred to as my personal assistant, Janet, and summon nature's ally can be equated to contracting help from the local workforce.

Anyway, we're starting at level 7, with all WOTC books allowed, and I have to say I don't have a lot of experience playing a mid-level druid. Basically the only thing I know is to take the Natural Spell feat. Is there any advice anyone can give me in terms of feats, play style, magic items, spells, etc.? Thanks!

Chronicled
2008-03-28, 02:14 PM
You've got Natural Spell?

Then you'll do just fine as a druid. No more optimization is needed to be one of the party's strongest members.

Edit: But reading this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=465005) and this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400) will teach you all you need to know about dominating encounters.

AKA_Bait
2008-03-28, 02:15 PM
Always remember: Wildshape is your friend.

This guide is also pretty good. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400)

Hario
2008-03-28, 02:18 PM
I'm starting out in a new game with some new people, and I'm thinking of playing a druid. Ilike the idea of playing a person for whom the outdoors is his workplace, and the animals are his colleagues. My animal companion (a bear) will be referred to as my personal assistant, Janet, and summon nature's ally can be equated to contracting help from the local workforce.

Anyway, we're starting at level 7, with all WOTC books allowed, and I have to say I don't have a lot of experience playing a mid-level druid. Basically the only thing I know is to take the Natural Spell feat. Is there any advice anyone can give me in terms of feats, play style, magic items, spells, etc.? Thanks!

Well let me put it straight. It's hard to play a bad Druid. Mechanically speaking, they have 3 of the best class features in the game (full caster, full animal companion, wildshape). Also go straight druid, someone is gonna mention planar shephard to joke around and sound like an idiot. So unless you love cheesing and ruin games. Don't even bother concidering that prc. A bear is a nice animal companion, a good tactic is to use the bear as a tank and summon a dire wolf (awesome summon btw) and have it trip the enemy (with a +10 to hit and 1d10+10 damage, and get a free trip at +11 I think, its almost autotrip every time. If you are an elf you can pick off your enemies from afar. Spells like Poison and Entangle are your friend, they are some of the best low level spells in the game. Goodberry might seem like a waste, but when you realise it actually heals more than most cure spells. (minus vigor spells) They will also auto stabilize you allies.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-28, 02:24 PM
Being as you can't spontaneously cast cure spells, storing Vigour (and other spells which give Fast Healing) could be a good idea. Augment Summoning is also great if your going to use SNA a lot.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-28, 02:32 PM
I'm starting out in a new game with some new people, and I'm thinking of playing a druid. Ilike the idea of playing a person for whom the outdoors is his workplace, and the animals are his colleagues. My animal companion (a bear) will be referred to as my personal assistant, Janet, and summon nature's ally can be equated to contracting help from the local workforce.

Anyway, we're starting at level 7, with all WOTC books allowed, and I have to say I don't have a lot of experience playing a mid-level druid. Basically the only thing I know is to take the Natural Spell feat. Is there any advice anyone can give me in terms of feats, play style, magic items, spells, etc.? Thanks!

At level 7, you have 4th level spells, 7-HD options for Wild Shape, and can take the 7th-level Animal Companion options. The Giant Crocodile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/crocodileGiant.htm) attacks at +11 *before* (shared?) buffs, and has Improved Grab and a grapple check of +21.

For Wild Shape options, you're still limited to Medium creatures. You may want to Wild Shape into something that can fly (like a Dire Hawk, from Races of the Wild) and spellcast until next level.

-Buy a Lesser Rod of Extend. Maybe even two.
-Remember that, silly as it looks, there's nothing wrong with getting your Animal Companion barding (even mithral barding--not wearing metal armor is the Druid's *personal* oath). If you don't like that, get a Pearl of Power I.

-Cast Greater Magic Fang on your companion. Hours/level whee!
-Two Barkskins for each of you. With the Extend, that should last the whole adventuring day.

-Spells: Keep a Freedom of Movement prepared. Remember you can spontaneously cast SNA.
--Protip: SNA IV gets you a Unicorn. Not only does it have Neutralize Poison, but it can give you more healing than you'd otherwise get out of a 4th level slot... and it can fight first! The Giant Crocodile and Dire Ape are gonna be the srongest combat summons, though.
-Lion's Charge is a great spell (SpC). If your party is melee-heavy, Mass Snake's Swiftness (same) can do a lot.
-Other SpC spells to know: Lesser Vigor (wands = downtime healing), Greater Resistance (no need for a cloak), Mass Resist Energy (only 3rd level; preparing one will ocassionally help the party), Listening Lorecall (for when you need your senses), Embrace the Wild (2nd-level, situational use based on Wild Shape)... a Nature's Favor each fight for your companion is swift-action goodness.

-Core spells to know: Air Walk (to deal with flying things--the SpC's level 2 Master Air is better for short-term, e.g. in-combat, use), PLANT GROWTH (no save, no SR, horribly hampered movement in a 100' circle. Plant Growth + Entangle = lulz; add in Vortex of Teeth, SpC, or even a simple Call Lightning for extra lulz), Freedom of Movement, Sleet Storm, Reduce Animal (for getting your Huge crocodile into buildings and such), Longstrider (no reason not to cast one on you and one on your companion each morning).

Telonius
2008-03-28, 02:41 PM
I'm starting out in a new game with some new people, and I'm thinking of playing a druid. I like the idea of playing a person for whom the outdoors is his workplace, and the animals are his colleagues. My animal companion (a bear) will be referred to as my personal assistant, Janet, and summon nature's ally can be equated to contracting help from the local workforce.

Anyway, we're starting at level 7, with all WOTC books allowed, and I have to say I don't have a lot of experience playing a mid-level druid. Basically the only thing I know is to take the Natural Spell feat. Is there any advice anyone can give me in terms of feats, play style, magic items, spells, etc.? Thanks!

Playstyle does depend on the group's composition. A Druid can be played as a melee'er, a battlefield controller, a healer, a zookeeper ... basically, figure out where your party's weak points are, and try to help fill them.

EDIT: One obvious hint - unless you're planning on Metamagicking it, never, ever prepare a summon nature's ally spell. It's as silly as a cleric preparing a cure spell. You can channel them just like clerics can channel cures.

Jack_Simth
2008-03-28, 03:41 PM
I'm starting out in a new game with some new people, and I'm thinking of playing a druid. I like the idea of playing a person for whom the outdoors is his workplace, and the animals are his colleagues. My animal companion (a bear) will be referred to as my personal assistant, Janet, and summon nature's ally can be equated to contracting help from the local workforce.

Anyway, we're starting at level 7, with all WOTC books allowed, and I have to say I don't have a lot of experience playing a mid-level druid. Basically the only thing I know is to take the Natural Spell feat. Is there any advice anyone can give me in terms of feats, play style, magic items, spells, etc.? Thanks!
Hard to play it bad, even keeping to Core.

You've got two stats you need: Wisdom and Constitution. Wisdom is for your spellcasting, Constitution is for your hit points. Intelligence is handy (skill points, and you've got a decent skill list), as is Charisma (you'll be making a lot of Handle Animal checks in battle, DC 10 and 20, possibly as high as DC 22 if your DM follows the rules). Strength and Dex in your base form are basically meaningless - power-wise, you'll be spending most (if not all) your time in Wild Shape, and getting your strengh and Dex from there.

Race picks:
Whisper Gnome or Dwarf. They're very similar; the Whisper Gnome gets bonuses to Hide and Move Silently; the Dwarf gets a +2 Racial save bonus to about 90% of the saves you'll make (Spells, spell-like abilities, and poisons). Both have Darkvision, a Con bonus, and a Charisma penalty.

Feat Picks:
Natural Spell at 6th is a given.
Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd is invaluable (unless someone else in the party has it - with the collaboration rules, there's usually no point in duplicating item creation feats).
Natural Bond is very useful if your DM rules that it can mitigate the level adjustment of the advanced animal companions (as it means +2 HD, +2 Natural Armor, +1 Str/Dex, a bonus trick, and either Evasion [if you take a Brown Bear from the -6 list] or Devotion [if you have a black bear from the -3 list] at your level). I'd recommend the Ape over the Bear, though, unless done for flavor reasons, as the Ape is a better combatant - better AC, Attack, Damage, and usually HP, too, for the adjustment. A Leopard or Tiger if you're after first-round damage. Still, a Bear is a fine animal companion, either way.
Extend Spell is very useful as well (you've got a lot of nice buffs with durations), and is a good alternate for Natural Bond if your DM decides it doesn't mitigate the adjusted animal companions.
I can't remember where it was, but there's a feat that increase the range of your Share Spells out to 30 feet, rather than the standard five. It's especially handy if you plan on using your animal companion to flank in battle.

Items:
Wilding Clasps are your friend. Get at least two - one for a Peripat of Wisdom, one for a Vest of Resistance (also, get a Vest of Resistance and a Peripat of Wisdom).
Get Wild armor when you can; before that point, get a casting of Mage Armor from the party Wizard. Purchase a Pearl of Power if you need to so that you're not eating up the Wizard's resources.
Get a strand of Prayer Beads that includes the Bead of Karma. The Bead of Karma is very useful when you're preparing to go somewhere. Going from caster level 7 to caster level 11 means that your Greater Magic Fang lasts 11 hours (all day, really), and gives +2 to each natural weapon you cast it on, rather than +1. Likewise, it means that your Barkskin spell (extend this one) grants +4, rather than +3, extra natural armor.
Get some Barding for your animal companion. It'll help with survivability. Magic stuff is handy, but not required.

Spells:
For a Melee Druid:
Greater Magic Fang and Barkskin are your bread and butter. Extend Barkskin, and cast it in preparation.
If you have a Large animal companion, keep a copy or two of Reduce Animal handy - it lets you take your animal companion with you into medium-sized areas.
Air Walk and Freedom of Movement will cover your 4th level spells nicely (you don't want the Wizard in a grapple), although if you trust the party wizard to get out of grapples on his own, get something interesting instead of Freedom of Movement.
Your 3rd level slots will go to Greater Magic Fang, your 2nd level slots to Barkskin.
Entangle and Cure Light Wounds (or Goodberry) round out your 1st level spell slots, Light, Dected Magic, and Cure Minor wounds for your osirons.

For a Control Druid:
Spike Stones, Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Summon Swarm, Entangle. Enough said, really.

For a blaster Druid:
Flame Strike, Call Lightning, Produce Flame.

streakster
2008-03-28, 03:46 PM
Of course, an interesting option for a druid is vow of poverty. Perhaps not optimal, but interesting.

Chronicled
2008-03-28, 04:16 PM
Of course, an interesting option for a druid is vow of poverty. Perhaps not optimal, but interesting.

Not optimal, but easy to keep track of. A druid can make it work better than any other class, to boot.

MightyIgoo
2008-03-28, 04:32 PM
Wow, thank you all! This is all great advice, I'm really going to enjoy this class!

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-28, 05:01 PM
One interesting thing about Druids, if you want to dump your Str/Dex at low levels without worry about dieing too much. Take Natural Spell at level 1 (it has no pre-reqs.) And then look into the Aspect of the X spells that Druids get. At level 1 you can be a wolf and still cast spells.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-28, 05:09 PM
One interesting thing about Druids, if you want to dump your Str/Dex at low levels without worry about dieing too much. Take Natural Spell at level 1 (it has no pre-reqs.) And then look into the Aspect of the X spells that Druids get. At level 1 you can be a wolf and still cast spells.

Natural Spell requires Wild Shape and WIS 13 (why did they even bother?). Can't take it at level 1. What's more, it only applies to Wild Shape anyway, not other transformations.

Jack_Simth
2008-03-28, 05:11 PM
One interesting thing about Druids, if you want to dump your Str/Dex at low levels without worry about dieing too much. Take Natural Spell at level 1 (it has no pre-reqs.) And then look into the Aspect of the X spells that Druids get. At level 1 you can be a wolf and still cast spells.
...
Where are you looking?


NATURAL SPELL [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Wis 13, wild shape ability.

Benefit: You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape.
(Emphasis added)

Edit: Ninja! Oh well, I'll add a little extra stuff....

If you want to dump Str/Dex at level 1, you survive the same basic way a Wizard does - stay in the back, used ranged effects (Magic Stone and a sling, Produce Flame, and so on) while your animal companion does the fighting for you.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-28, 05:20 PM
Sunstroke (I think it's called) is a level 1 Druid/wiz spell that does 2d6 damage, no save, and Fatigues on a failed Fort save. Sure, it's nonlethal damage, but who *cares*? A KOed opponent is as good as or better than a dead one.

So, yeah. Sunstroke.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-28, 06:31 PM
Cloudburst + Call Lightning for massive damage if you like being blasty.

Paul H
2008-03-28, 10:01 PM
Hi

Suggest you talk to your GM before 'barding' up your animal companion - they're not trained for it & suffer penalties as normal. You could take armour prof as feats, or just train your 'friend'.

There is also the 'Warbeast' templete in MM2 Pg 219, which explains how to special train any animal. Think of difference between Horse & Warhorse. This does same to any animal. Bit expensive for you, but could be worth it. Especially if you're thinking of a Dire Ape companion.

Your normal Dire Ape is only 5HD at your level of Druid, but Wartrained is 6HD.

New stats;

Str 25 Dex 15 Con 17 Int 2 Wis 14 Cha 7

BAB +4 HP 45 AC 18 (in newly trained for studded lthr)
Saves F7 R8 W6

2xClaw +10 (dam D6+7)
Bite +5 (D8+3)
Rend 2D6+14
You also need to allocate another feat (6HD) and another skill point.

Used to have Wartrained Rhino as my steed (Mtd combat, ride-by attack).

Don't forget the 'Heart of..." spells from CM, and "Bite of..." spells from Spell Compendium. (You can 'share' spells with your companion).

Then enjoy probably the most versatile class in the game!

Cheers
Paul H

Edit: Craft Wondrous Item is excellent feat at 3rd lvl - think of Periapt of Wisdom, Amulets of Nat Armour, Pearls of Power for extra spells, and Bags of Tricks as bonus summons. List (nearly) endless, especially if you have access to Magic item Compendium.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-28, 10:07 PM
Hi

Suggest you talk to your GM before 'barding' up your animal companion - they're not trained for it & suffer penalties as normal. You could take armour prof as feats, or just train your 'friend'.

The normal penalties for Masterwork Studded Leather or Mithral Chain Shirt barding are zero, zip, nada. You take the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls if you're not proficient... but the Armor Check Penalty is 0.

Paul H
2008-03-28, 10:30 PM
Hi

Just a bit of alarming cheese for your Druid (my excuse: posting this at gone 3.00am)

Wartrained Dire Ape (For Your Druid 7)

With Rhino Hide armour (DMG), and Bite of Wereboar & Lion Charge (swift) cast same rnd on ape:

Str 29 Con 23
HP 66 AC 34

Can full attack on charge, and armour grants bonus damage on charging...... (say cheese....) :smallbiggrin:

2 x Claw +14 (Dam 3D6 + 9)
Bite +9 (Dam 4D6 + 4)
Rend 4D6 +18

This only for charging - the Str/Con/AC bonus etc lasts 1 rnd/lvl.
And all this since you're only 7th level! :smallcool:

Note that you don't get 1 1/2 str bonus to bite dam because you have multiple attacks. Also you can do even more damage with Gtr Magic Fang cast, ( +1 Enhancement bonus to all attacks/damge).

Cheers
Paul H

Paul H
2008-03-28, 10:33 PM
The normal penalties for Masterwork Studded Leather or Mithral Chain Shirt barding are zero, zip, nada. You take the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls if you're not proficient... but the Armor Check Penalty is 0.

Hi

I know that - but poster might choose something else. Eg Full Plate. Which is one reason why Wartrained companions are cool.

Cheers
Paul H

Kizara
2008-03-29, 04:01 AM
I suggest Companion Spell (PHB2), Improved Initiative and Natural Spell as your feats.


Because noone else mentioned it, I will:

The most overpowered animal companion in the game is the Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3). Have a look at it for kicks, but I'd recommend against actually picking it cause it is obscenely overpowered.

Chronicled
2008-03-29, 05:37 AM
The most overpowered animal companion in the game is the Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3). [...] I'd recommend against actually picking it cause it is obscenely overpowered.

And because if you're not playing in a campaign where everyone's optimizing, the DM has a right to hit you over the head with the MM3 for pulling this stunt.

Kizara
2008-03-29, 02:46 PM
And because if you're not playing in a campaign where everyone's optimizing, the DM has a right to hit you over the head with the MM3 for pulling this stunt.

I don't even agree with that, it takes more then 'optimizing' to compete with fleshraker cheese, it takes heavily cheesing out. The DMM (persist) cleric might be able to keep up.

BardicDuelist
2008-03-29, 03:10 PM
I personally like upping my summoning spells, as it is, in my opinion, the most versitile thing one can do with a druid (ofcourse, wildshape is pretty darn close).

Augment summoning (and the requisite SF-Conjuration) are the best core options for this, but since you say that you have all WoTC books available (and I assume this means setting specific books are allowed), there are some other great options.

Ashbound summoning (Eberron) is great at low levels, as your summons stick around longer.

Beckon the Frozen from Frostburn gives more damage to your summons (it's cold and changes them to the cold subtype).

Greenbound summoning (Lost Empires of Faerun) is really good at lower levels, and maintains usefulness. It does change summons to plant type, which can have some mechanical limitations.

Summon Elemental from Complete Mage can give you a free lackey as long as you are able to cast a summoning spell (should be able to be done most of the time, right?).

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Abberation Wildshape and Assume supernatural ability for your wildshapes. Oh, and Dragon Wildshape. I like that one.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-29, 07:15 PM
Initiate of Malar. One of the Forgotten Realms books, it's Augment Summoning without having to take SF(Conjuration), and it only affects animals. Well, and you have to be evil, but that's not that big a deal, is it? :smallwink:

Tura
2008-03-29, 09:45 PM
Goodberry might seem like a waste, but when you realise it actually heals more than most cure spells.
I does? It's 2d4 while cure light wounds is 1d8+1/caster lvl. Unless you mean casting a bunch of those before you go out adventuring and carrying a sack of berries with you. :) (They'll last 1 day/lvl in that case.)

Leon
2008-03-30, 02:10 AM
You too can Spontaneously Heal - X/day (WIS Mod = X) with one feat and 4 Ranks in Knowledge Religion and a non evil alignment

Leon
2008-03-30, 03:43 AM
One interesting thing about Druids, if you want to dump your Str/Dex at low levels without worry about dieing too much. Take Natural Spell at level 1 (it has no pre-reqs.) And then look into the Aspect of the X spells that Druids get. At level 1 you can be a wolf and still cast spells.

There is a reason why its always the lvl 6 feat choice for druids....

Talic
2008-03-30, 04:11 AM
Also, if you wish to try a lower power, still fun method, try the Master of Many Forms. Lower power is relative, but it does sacrifice full casting, for greater shapeshifting.

A druid 5, nature's warrior 1 (serpent's coils ability), MoMF 2, and Improved grapple, will be kicking out a brown bear with over +30 to grapple, Improved grab (attack, grab ouch), and will dead 1d8+10 or so damage every time your opponent fails a grapple check... Like when he tries to escape. A couple more levels gets dire tiger, for all of the above AND pounce. And don't forget changing into the other forms you get, which is most every creature type out there. By the time you cap out MoMF at level 16, you'll be a real heavyweight in melee, with a few low level boost spells to help out. Last for levels, either go to druid 9 or go for some zany combat boost class. Like Lion totem barb to give ALL your forms pounce. Or warshaper 3 for Improved stats and 5 foot reach. Or both, heh.