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View Full Version : Hunter of the Dead vs. Liches?



Ascension
2008-03-28, 04:28 PM
Hunter of the Dead is one of those prestige classes I've never bothered to read. Until today, that is. At first everything seemed pretty typical, a little on the weak side, perhaps, but typical. Then I got to True Death. 5th level ability, says that undead slain by the Hunter "can never rise again as undead. They are forever destroyed." Would this override the need to destroy a lich's phylactery? It seems to me it would.

So, is the moral of the story "Don't let anyone who owns Complete Warrior know that the BBEG is a lich in advance"?

holywhippet
2008-03-28, 04:52 PM
I'd say no. I wouldn't consider a lich to be slain until it's phylactery has been destroyed. The body of the lich is arguably just a kind of avatar for it. It's true self is in the phylactery.

Chronos
2008-03-28, 08:10 PM
Eh, if it doesn't work on liches, then what would it work on? Most undead creatures, if they get whacked, are gone forever anyway. The only ones I know of which are otherwise are liches and ghosts.

DementedFellow
2008-03-28, 08:19 PM
Eh, if it doesn't work on liches, then what would it work on? Most undead creatures, if they get whacked, are gone forever anyway. The only ones I know of which are otherwise are liches and ghosts.

Isn't there some rule about how vampires who take so much damage can mistform and haul kibble to their coffin and come back?

KillianHawkeye
2008-03-28, 08:44 PM
That happens automatically when they hit 0 hp. But they're not destroyed unless they can't make it there in time.

mostlyharmful
2008-03-29, 05:42 AM
Either the DM lets it work on liches, Ghosts and Vampires in which case it's a very powerful but very situational ability. Or they don't in which case the class sucks ass and shouldn't be included.

Both ways of looking at it work just as long as the player knows in advance if that class feature does what it says on the tin or not. Personally I'd say it works but anyone taking that class gets swarmed by respawning undead long before they get to fifth level, its not a power that would come up often so it wouldn't overshadow the rest of the players in game but it screws any atempt to use an Undead BBEGs cool comeback feature, potentially destroying a good, tense or long running plot line.

Given the time and thought (and LA) thats gone into getting a rewpawn ability from an undead template it seems a really cheap shot to just ignore it and wipe out all that invested energy.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-03-29, 06:08 AM
Well, seeing you can't re-raise (or re-animate) zombies and skeletons (iirc; I'm quite sure on it), I think it should apply to ghosts and vampires, who can be slain then return again as undead. Liches are more tricky matter, since they pay a hefty amount to keep them from just that; I'd say it should be determined by the circumstance and DM's whim.

serow
2008-03-29, 09:47 AM
HotD is just... weak. Allowing True Death to work on liches etc is about its only redeeming feature?

Ascension
2008-03-29, 10:36 AM
Come to think of it, it would also be good against the haunts from MMV.

Still an overall lousy PrC, but that single ability is situationally powerful.

Everyman
2008-03-30, 12:11 PM
See? This is why I'm not too fond of Complete Warrior. If you read through it carefully, you can't help but think "Hey! They wrote this in the early stages of 3.5! It's practically 3.25!"

RAW, I would say that the ability would indeed prevent a lich from returning to (un)life. Granted, it is kind of hard to figure out how that works. Did you beat the lich so hard that it breaks the phylactery? Perhaps, from a fluff context, the phylactery is only an anchor for the soul...so you end up severing that link between and lich and his special soul trinket when you slay him?

*Sigh*

Let the Hunter of the Dead have his day. The class is so focused on undead, that it worse than a fighter when dealing with any else. Not even the spells help (and don't even get me on a discussion on giving that PrC a whole new set of spell progression, when the only classes that can get into it already have spells...)