Kumite Round Robin match; Devoted Spirit Crusader vs Desert Wind Swordsage

[Douglas]

Making the thread myself because PWF seems to be too busy and told me to via PM if it took too long.

Come forward, Dar Ironsoul and Aldren! You shall now fight for the honor of your schools. Enter now, declare yourselves and prepare for battle!


First post, put a combat block and roll initiative. You also describe your one standard action and one swift of prep. You may also wish to give a little speech to the people watching, but that's not required. All posts after that, the fight is on.

The arena, as rolled randomly, is 90 ft on a side and you're 40 feet apart. Floor and walls are smooth stone. Ceiling is 40 ft above you and magically transparent and capable of letting sound through; the crowd is watching from up there.
http://excessivefreetime.org/images/kumite/r2.jpg
If I can, I'll update this for you, but if nothing else, you've got a named grid.
Aldren is red, Dar Ironsoul is orange. Your map gets obstacles, seemingly randomly placed pillars of the same stone as the walls and floor, just for the heck of it. If the pillar's 5x5, it's 10 ft tall, 5x10 it's 20 ft tall, 10x10 it's 40 ft tall and reaches the ceiling. You won't be able to knock them over. Don't try

[Reel On, Love]

Starting out in Aura of Perfect Order.
Aldren is my Dodge target from now 'til the match ends.
Initiative: 11+16 = 27.
Standard action: chug a potion. Mmmm... nummy potion.
Maneuvers NOT granted: [roll0], [roll1].

The very air around the orc stops moving as he enters, already in The Sea is Still stance; rather than expanding himself the way he has done in the previous matches, he drinks a vial of blue liquid. Another man might crush the vial with a bare hand, but he simply crouches down and sets it rolling towards a corner of the arena, then rises.

"I am Dar, of Sunset-on-the-Sea, first grandmaster of the Ocean Soul. I can't say I'm a fan of fire, but let us fight with honor and courage."
He levels his guisarme, then drops into a warrior's stance...

[Douglas]

Starting in Fiery Assault for effect, but change to Stance of Alacrity. 1d6 bonus fire damage really isn't that useful most of the time. If you really object to this bit of theatrics/flavor because I don't have a swift action in prep, then I just start in Stance of Alacrity.
Dar Ironsoul is my Dodge target for the entire match.
Activate Boots of Speed and begin Shifting as free actions.
Not activating Robilar's Gambit, due to the disparity in reach between us
Initiative: [roll0]


The temperature of the arena seems to go up a notch as Aldren assumes his position, flames flickering around him and his weapons. The flames die down as he assumes a fighting stance, glancing in disdain at his opponent's used potion vial.

"I'm not much of a fan of water either, but we'll soon see who triumphs here."

[Reel On, Love]

Just an FYI--you have a 20% miss chance when attacking Dar. With Blind-Fight it'll hardly ever matter, but, hey.

Full-round action: War Leader's Charge. [roll0] on the charge, for 2d4+57+1 CON that you can roll if it hits. I end up at J-11.
Overcoming miss chance, if any: [roll1], [roll2], if either does it, I beat it.

[Douglas]

With an attack roll that high I doubt this'll work, but it lets me add the second stance:
Fool's Strike: [roll0]
Add Blood in the Water with Counter Stance.
ISTR that you agree with my interpretation that this counter requires a separate roll, so there is some small chance it might actually work. I went the other way fighting TheMeanDM mainly just to not waste time arguing.

No miss chance for me.

Damage: [roll1]
Massive damage save, assuming Fool's Strike fails (nat 1 territory): [roll2]

Would you mind telling me your AC? I can guess from the Time Stands Still in your first match, but knowing the exact value might help speed up figuring out the result of my turn.

[Reel On, Love]

Swift action: assume Thicket of Blades stance.

Dar's current AC is 41. You probably shouldn't tell me yours, since I Power Attack sometimes.

Re-reading Fool's Strike, it seems like the "oppose the attack roll they made to hit you" is the right interpretation. That makes it a bit weaker, eh?

The Orc snaps from stillness to motion without any twitch of muscle for warning, charging forward in a motion that is part leap, part fleche. The tip of his guisarme weaves small, tight circles as he rushes his opponent, and the last one turns into a larger half-circle, swirling around Aldren's parry and impact like a line of ice, sliding from his left side to that same shoulder. He stops himself with the impact, feet spreading, guisarme pulling up, the tip dipping and wavering unpredictably and making it difficult to approach.
"Crashing Wave into River Hinders Progress," he announces, almost absently.

[Douglas]

5' step towards you, you get an AoO.

Inferno Blast: 112 fire damage, reflex DC 25 half
Moment of Alacrity for +20 initiative, I go again before your turn comes up.

Inferno Blade boost, Time Stands Still strike:
Let's see how many of these rolls I need:
Ok, I think that's right, let me check again...
Attack 1:[roll0] [roll1]
[roll2] [roll3]
Crit confirmed
Lightning Mace:[roll4] [roll5] +1 for crits
[roll6] [roll7]
Crit confirmed
Lightning Mace:[roll8] [roll9] +2 for crits
hit
Attack 2:[roll10] [roll11] +2 for crits
hit
Attack 3: 13 + 38 + 2 = 53
hit
Attack 4:[roll12] [roll13] +2 for crits
[roll14] [roll15]
crit confirmed
Lightning Mace:[roll16] [roll17] +3 for crits
[roll18] [roll19]
crit confirmed
Lightning Mace: 15 + 33 + 4 = 52
17 + 33 + 4 = 54
crit confirmed
Lightning Mace: 6 + 33 + 5 = 44
hit
Attack 5: 4 + 33 + 5 = 42
hit
Attack 6: [roll20] [roll21] +5 for crits
miss
Attack 7: [roll22] [roll23] +5 for crits
hit
Wasted rolls: [roll24] [roll25]
[roll26] [roll27]

Second full attack:
Attack 1: [roll28] [roll29] +5 for crits
hit
Attack 2: [roll30] [roll31] +5 for crits
[roll32] [roll33]
crit confirmed
Lightning Mace: [roll34] [roll35] +6 for crits
hit
Attack 3: [roll36] [roll37] +6 for crits
hit
Wasted nat 20: [roll38] [roll39]
Attack 4: [roll40] [roll41] +6 for crits
hit
Attack 5: [roll42] [roll43] +6 for crits
hit
Wasted: [roll44] [roll45]
[roll46] [roll47]
Attack 6: [roll48] [roll49] +6 for crits
hit
Attack 7: [roll50] [roll51] +6 for crits
[roll52] [roll53]
crit confirmed
Lightning Mace: [roll54] [roll55] +7 for crits
hit

[Douglas]

Apparently didn't roll enough dice, here are some more (not including bonuses, will use in order):
[roll0]

[Douglas]

And miss chances:
[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]
[roll6]
[roll7]
[roll8]
[roll9]
[roll10]
[roll11]
[roll12]
[roll13]
[roll14]
[roll15]
[roll16]
[roll17]
[roll18]
[roll19]

[Reel On, Love]

BTW, forgot my Mastery of Nine damage. Add 6 to what you took.

Reflex save: [roll0], Edit: holy crap, I make it. 112/2 = 66, -20 = 46 fire damage.
Anyway, AoO: trip attempt, while you're out of range! Melee touch attack: [roll1], take 11 on the trip check for a total of 27.
Assuming I trip you, the follow-up attack is a disarm attempt. My disarm check gets +4 for a 2-hander and another +4 for your being prone; you have -4 for a light weapon and -4 for being prone. [roll2] disarm. No AoO for the disarm, you're out of range.

I also don't see how you could possibly make 28 attack rolls. 5 main hand, 3 off hand, still make it 8, x2 is 16. If you're rolling 14 and confirming criticals, fuhgeddaboutit: Dar is totally immune to criticals.
Edit: oh, crap, Lightning Mace. Man, that is freaking BRUTAL with Adaptive Style Kukris and Time Stands Still!

Edit 2: I don't think you get Blood in the Water bonuses against crit-immune opponents, since you don't actually score a critical hit.


I'll wait on the trip check results and see if you can still do what you did for a Counter.
Edit: Also, @#%^!$#&!# I just realized I should have used Stand Still! No takebacks, I guess, but I should've taken 11 with Stand Still to keep you from getting within 5'. ...man, I wish I could take that back.

You should roll your fire damage separate from everything else as I have Fire Resistance 20, unless you deal over 20 minimum fire damage.

[Douglas]

Trip check: [roll0]
Not tripped.

I think immunity to crits may block the Enervating property, but Prismatic Burst specifically works on crit immunes.

Back to editing...

[Reel On, Love]

(+23?! Really?! How? Also, aaaaaugh. Why did I go for the trip? The Disarm or Stand Still would have totally stopped that. This is the problem with not thinking things over.
Man, that's awful. Are you really sure the Aptitude enhancement works that way? The examples would indicate otherwise.)

[Douglas]

(Greater Anchoring armor and Steadfast Boots.

I have a counter for Stand Still, and disarm would only have taken one of my weapons if you succeeded. Considering how much overkill I expect this to be, I doubt it would matter.

Next post, damage.)

[Reel On, Love]

(Gah, the boards are messing up for me. I completely overlooked Greater Anchoring.
Hold on for the damage.
Blood in the Water doesn't work on the crit-immune. Some of those missed. that affects damage, too.

As a counter, Dar uses Manticore Parry, [roll0] on your second Lightning Mace attack, with Furious Counterstrike. He uses Counter Stance to drop the this-round-expended Aura of Perfect Order for Immortal Fortitude.)

[Douglas]

The 3d6 is the fire damage. Fire resist 20 has already been subtracted.

Attack 1:[roll0] [roll1]
Prismatic Burst:[roll2] (in case of 8: [roll3])
Lightning Mace:[roll4] [roll5]
Prismatic Burst:[roll6] (in case of 8: [roll7])
Lightning Mace:[roll8] [roll9]
Attack 2:[roll10] [roll11]
Attack 3:[roll12] [roll13]
Attack 4:[roll14] [roll15]
Prismatic Burst:[roll16] (in case of 8: [roll17])
Lightning Mace:[roll18] [roll19]
Prismatic Burst:[roll20] (in case of 8: [roll21])
Lightning Mace:[roll22] [roll23]
Prismatic Burst:[roll24] (in case of 8: [roll25])
Lightning Mace:[roll26] [roll27]
Attack 5: [roll28] [roll29]
Attack 6: miss
Attack 7: [roll30] [roll31]

Second full attack:
Attack 1: [roll32] [roll33]
Attack 2: [roll34] [roll35]
Prismatic Burst:[roll36] (in case of 8: [roll37])
Lightning Mace: [roll38] [roll39]
Attack 3: [roll40] [roll41]
Attack 4: [roll42] [roll43]
Attack 5: [roll44] [roll45]
Attack 6: [roll46] [roll47]
Attack 7: [roll48] [roll49]
Prismatic Burst:[roll50] (in case of 8: [roll51])
Lightning Mace: [roll52] [roll53]

[Reel On, Love]

(I'll wind up deleting some of these:
-Blood in the Water is a no-go. I'm crit immune. Which means you don't double your damage, either. It also means some of those attacks missed.
-Manticore Parry just barely beat out your second Lightning Mace, so that hits you and not me.

Man, I really wish I'd gone for the disarm.)

[Douglas]

(Oh, right, no doubling of damage. So halve each of the 2d4+ rolls. I still get Prismatic Burst (specifically works even on crit immune), and that's enough for them to count for Blood in the Water (one of the Q&A questions is about Flaming Burst in the same situation, and that was the answer) Even without that, subtracting BitW's bonus only makes three more miss.

The decision to use Manticore Parry is supposed to be made before you even know if the attack hits, much less by how much, so picking a relatively low rolling attack isn't really valid. Can you give me a different reason why you'd pick that particular attack to use it on? Not that I think it's going to change the outcome.

I'm counting 810 damage total after reducing the crits back to normal, and a bunch of saves vs Prismatic Spray:
Will DC 20 or sent to another plane
Fire negated by your potion
80 electricity damage, reflex DC 20 half
Will DC 20 or insane
Fort DC 20 or turned to stone
Will DC 20 or insane
40 acid damage, reflex DC 20 half
Will DC 20 or sent to another plane)

[Reel On, Love]

I'll have to look up the Prismatic Burst effects.
Getting Prismatic Burst is enough to activate Blood in the Water? How so? You're getting the Aptitude interpretation, I'm not gonna be lenient on this one. Fortification totally negates the crit. Q&A isn't even as official as the FAQ.
Looking at it, the response is one of the worst I've ever seen:

The ability doesn't specifically state that it doesn't work on creatures that are immune to critical hit damage, nor is the bonus from the maneuver treated as critical hit damage, so it looks like this maneuver would work on a creature that is immune to critical hits.
The part about the flaming weapon is not even touched, and the response is completely at odds with rules interpretation. "It doesn't specifically say it doesn't work on creatures that are immune"? No, because the base rule is that immunity criticals shuts down things that trigger off of a successful critical! It'd have to explicitly state--like Prismatic Burst DOES--that it works even if the enemy is immune to criticals. In fact, Prismatic Burst pretty much makes the case open and shut: Prismatic Burst has the same "triggers off a successful critical" wording, but *adds* "even if they're immune" wording. That wording is needed to get the effect even against immune creatures.

Basically, Q&A isn't even as official as the FAQ, and that really shows: they have it exactly backwards--it has to specifically say it DOES work on creatures that are immune to work. You have to *score a successful critical hit*--that's impossible on crit-immune creatures! I think I'm definitely in the right here, and I'll need playswithfire to tell me I'm not before I concede defeat. :P

I didn't see that you have to use Manticore Parry before it hits. Use it on the first Lightning Mace attack (because that's when he sees that you can keep going), then. It unfortunately misses, but I get into Immortal Fortitude.

[Douglas]

Aldren lets loose a burst of incredibly hot flames covering most of the arena. His opponent is rather less scorched afterwards than Aldren had hoped, but he moves again before Dar Ironsoul can react. Both kukris are suddenly engulfed in fire almost too bright to look at, and a furious series of strikes hits home again and again as Aldren executes one of his most powerful attacks. A many-colored spray erupts from his weapons seven times before he is done, and Dar Ironsoul is covered in many cauterized wounds.


Basically, Q&A isn't even as official as the FAQ, and that really shows: they have it exactly backwards--it has to specifically say it DOES work on creatures that are immune to work. You have to *score a successful critical hit*--that's impossible on crit-immune creatures! I think I'm definitely in the right here, and I'll need playswithfire to tell me I'm not before I concede defeat. :P
Having to score a successful critical hit is the only requirement for BitW. When I trigger Prismatic Burst or any similar ability, I have scored a successful critical hit.

Anyway, try calculating whether you can survive with attacks 5 and 7 and the lightning mace right before 5 (all of these in the first full attack) all missing and the bonus on all the damage rolls dropped to 23. If you can't, then this argument makes no difference to the outcome of the fight. Note that even if your fort save is sky high, you can only use Immortal Fortitude 3 times before it ends. I very much doubt you can survive even with that reduction.

Edit: I'll put the sequence of damage here with those alterations if you wait a moment.

Damage per hit in order with Prismatic Bursts, if BitW doesn't work:
44, will vs sent to other plane, 32, 37, 38, 39, 33, reflex vs 80 elec, 37, will vs insanity, 37, fort vs petrification, 37, 36, will vs insanity, 36, 36, 36, 30, 36, 38, reflex vs 40 acid, will vs sent to other plane, 33.

[Reel On, Love]

OK, good point. There's no way I can survive that.
But holy crap, is that ever horrifically cheap. Even if the Aptitude Kukris are technically RAW, I don't think that it's RAI, at the very least (the examples they give make that pretty clear). When we meet in the elimination tournament, I am *not* going easy. ONE PUNCH, I tell ya.

When the flames clear, Dar Ironsoul, his mithral armor punctured and torn, lies on the ground quite thoroughly dead--well, at least until the clerics get to him.