OOTS #543 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Miles Invictus]

I've gotta admit, the bit about the Basilisk reeks of badassery. :smallsmile:

[Bitzeralisis]

I'm glad Redcloak is there. Think of all the chaos there would be if he wasn't.

[Maulrus]

I'd go for trident and net. :smallwink:

[Rockphed]

I'm glad Redcloak is there. Think of all the chaos there would be if he wasn't.

But then Haley would have been able to chase Xykon out already.

Also, Undead Warriors for the WIN!

[Ryuuk]

Can't blame Xykon for being bored, he already spends 8 hours a day doing absolutely nothing to get his spells back. Great comic.

[jmucchiello]

And here I thought it would be a giant or dragon he'd face since they are not animals, aberrations or magical beasts

[Turcano]

I'd go for trident and net. :smallwink:

Normally that guy would usually win, but he had the luxury of fighting an opponent who could get tired.

[The Hop Goblin]

Bonus points for the Office Space line.

[blackspeeker]

I'm glad Redcloak is there. Think of all the chaos there would be if he wasn't.

Indeed, he is the voice of reason amongst raving lunatics.

[Monation]

Usual Torture Regimen? Acid Tanks and Acid Sharks, Two dozen rabid dire wallabies and a Basilisk? And now an undead to match his own skill?
O'Chul must be power leveling at lightspeed.

[TARDIS]

Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad, how many jokes did you stuff in there Giant? I laughed a good half-dozen times on my first read-through, and I'm certain there's several that I missed. This one is truly epic!:smallbiggrin:

[Page606]

I'll definitely take O'Chul over any undead creation Tsukiko is capable of.

[kpenguin]

Does anyone get the demon cockroach's line in the second to last panel?

All I can think of is that its a reference to Eberron, which has both lightning-powered trains and dinosaur-riding halflings.

[Mephisto]

Wow. I respected O-Chul before, but his badassery just went up tenfold.

[Yendor]

Frankly, I'm not surprised in the least. Except that Redcloak still thinks he can get info out of O-chul. (And yes, O's probably not keen on returning if he snuffs it.)

[KurenaiYami]

"He never blinked."

Beautiful.

[blackspeeker]

Does anyone get the demon cockroach's line in the second to last panel?

All I can think of is that its a reference to Eberron, which has both lightning-powered trains and dinosaur-riding halflings.

I thought he was poking fun at how Redcloak was ruining their good time as old people often do. So in my mind the roach called him a dinosaur.

[tyckspoon]

Usual Torture Regimen? Acid Tanks and Acid Sharks, Two dozen rabid dire wallabies and a Basilisk? And now an undead to match his own skill?
O'Chul must be power leveling at lightspeed.

Not a problem, really. No matter how many levels he gets, he won't be able to do much of anything without getting some equipment- even if he starts leveling in something that can operate naked (Incarnum? Sorcerer with Eschew Materials as his first feat?) he'll only have low level abilities in that class. At best, that would let him kill a few more hobgoblin guards with each amusement cycle, which is something Xykon manifestly doesn't care about.

And then there's the fact that he's imprisoned by people who have bunches and bunches of undead at their command, including known level-drainers like wights. They can shave excess levels off O-chul any time they want; just keep touching him until he flubs enough saves.

[Paragon Badger]

First page:smallbiggrin:
by the way whats with the "dinosuors hate being late" comment?

Probably a response to Redcloak's reference of 'Magic ≈ Technology' comment.

[nosajtpno]

Redcloak's intelligence has dropped a few points in my mind. Honestly, how could he not have seen that coming? "animal, magical beast, or aberration" Jeez, even I saw that coming.

Still, great comic. "Surprise me". Nice.

Edit:

Not a problem, really. No matter how many levels he gets, he won't be able to do much of anything without getting some equipment- even if he starts leveling in something that can operate naked (Incarnum? Sorcerer with Eschew Materials as his first feat?) he'll only have low level abilities in that class. At best, that would let him kill a few more hobgoblin guards with each amusement cycle, which is something Xykon manifestly doesn't care about.

And then there's the fact that he's imprisoned by people who have bunches and bunches of undead at their command, including known level-drainers like wights. They can shave excess levels off O-chul any time they want; just keep touching him until he flubs enough saves.

Nah, a single feat (Improved Unarmed Strike) would go a long way to being able to do things. Besides, the first level 1-hobgoblin he smites will leave him with a good weapon.

The undead are a good point, though. Let's hope that Zykon doesn't do that. After all, it would make his entertainment less entertaining.

[Lunaya]

Does anyone get the demon cockroach's line in the second to last panel?

All I can think of is that its a reference to Eberron, which has both lightning-powered trains and dinosaur-riding halflings.

I was thinking Jurassic Park, dinosaurs and cars that run on electricity. Oh well, I laughed either way. :smallbiggrin:

[HolderofSecrets]

MitD "Hey that's my line." hehehe

Edit: Cool first page. Thats a first.

[chibibar]

Wow.. I am speechless..... awesome Giant!

[Alfryd]

Good.

Oh, for frackssake, O-chul, just die already. You're not doing anyone any favours, except possibly Xykon.

[Paragon Badger]

Redcloak's intelligence has dropped a few points in my mind. Honestly, how could he not have seen that coming? "animal, magical beast, or aberration" Jeez, even I saw that coming.

Still, great comic. "Surprise me". Nice.


I believe Redcloak just wanted to be done with the conversation (and Xykon) as soon as possible. And he's good too much strategery to be concerned with to pick up on exclusions and semantics. :smallwink:

[fractal]

And then there's the fact that he's imprisoned by people who have bunches and bunches of undead at their command, including known level-drainers like wights. They can shave excess levels off O-chul any time they want; just keep touching him until he flubs enough saves.
True, but I can't really see that happening. Higher level Paladin victim means more ridiculous traps you can put him through. Xykon's conversation with Roy already indicated he's not afraid of high level heroes.

[mroozee]

Bonus points for the Office Space line. Office Space? Pshaw. There was a triple entendre with Captain Kangaroo, Frank Zappa, and Goblinoid Genetics!

[Leo_Forestclaw]

Bonus points for the Office Space line.

Ninja'ed! That was my first laugh out loud moment in this strip!

Mad props to O'Chul. Can he join my party? ;-)

[BigFatLion]

I'm really starting to like the gal in black.

[Remirach]

Not the TPS reports! Redcloak might make for a great character to read about, but he'd be notoriously crappy to work for.

Also: DIRE WALLABIES?!

[mockingbyrd7]

I'm glad Redcloak is there. Think of all the chaos there would be if he wasn't.

...I don't think you understand the point of this comic. Less chaos? Better? Seriously? :smalltongue:

Anyways, great comic. I loved the "Basilisk Staring Contest" and "Hey, that's my line!" Oh, and "two dozen rabid dire wallabies".

Ack! And how could I forget the bone-breaking line?!

All in all, an excellent strip.

[Kyeudo]

I predict that we may see the return of Miko soon. She's the best corpse in Azure City that we know of, even if she is cut in half.

[FujinAkari]

Good.

Oh, for frackssake, Thanh, just die already. You're not doing anyone any favours, except possibly Xykon.

O.o

What does Thanh have to do with anything?

[Qov]

Wow! You guys were all right. The "they've been doing the same thing to him over and over" people and "they've been doing all different tortures to him" people are right. The "they've been torturing him for information" and "they've been torturing him for entertainment" people are right. And the "Redcloak is not there because his busy" people are right along with the "Redcloak is not there because he thinks it's stupid" and the "Redcloak is going to turn up and be pissed" people. Poor O-Chul. Maybe if we all hope really, really hard, he will escape.

I wonder what else the lava breathing shark wholesaler has in stock.

[brionl]

Well, Dragons and Giants (and humanoids) might be exceptions to Xykon's promise, but we all know what his favorite creature type is, after all. And Tsusiko probably doesn't have creature summoning spells. Have we figured out whether her Arcane half is Wizard or Sorceror yet?

[Turcano]

Oh, for frackssake, Thanh, just die already. You're not doing anyone any favours, except possibly Xykon.

That's O'Chul.

[David Argall]

Great comic.
Lousy plotwise, but great for the gags and such.

Redcloak has not managed to drain O'Chul of everything he knows in half this much time?? Oh, O'Chul can save a few times against all those spells, but he is going to roll that 1 eventually, and he is an open book. It really shouldn't take more than a week if Redcloak uses his full array of spells, less if he swallows his pride and lets Tsukiko help.

About all I can figure is that either Redcloak is so convinced that O'Chul must know something that he refuses to believe him when he tells him he doesn't know anything.
Rather dubious would be the idea that he just likes torturing paladins and doesn't care that the paladin doesn't know beans, or that he wants to stay here and rule the city and is using the paladin as an excuse not to leave.

For the real insane, there is the possibility that Redcloak is helping O'Chul, either that O'Chul had access to some sort of Charm Person, or for some impossible reason RedCloak is actually acting virtuous.

And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.
The spell makes sense in the dungeon, where it was aided by the walls of the castle and dungeon. But at the city, anyone of much levels can wander in any of a huge number of ways. So the spell does little good.

We still got a lot of plot-holes to repair.

[The Tygre]

It's Redcloak! Redcloak came back! He and Xykon are my favorite characters since I read Start of Darkness, so you can see why I might be excited. Yay! I sound idiotic, but who cares? Redcloak is back!

Also, I see a lot of people questioning the dire wallabies. Now, see, this is why we have templates. To make monsters that SEEM ridiculous at first, but turn out to be real pains when you get next to them. I'm guessing a dire wallaby would be like a dire weasel, but with better dexterity and more HP. Next up:

The Dire Penguin!

Keep up the good work, Giant!

[Draz74]

Dire wallabies was definitely the best part of the strip.


Tsusiko probably doesn't have creature summoning spells. Have we figured out whether her Arcane half is Wizard or Sorceror yet?

She most certainly does have creature summoning spells. Even if her arcane half doesn't, they're on the Cleric list. And was it ever really in doubt that her arcane half was Wizard (specialized in necromancy, and who in their right mind makes a Mystic Theurge out of a sorcerer anyway)? If it was in doubt, it stopped being in doubt at the strip where she "prepared" Electric Orb and other evocations with attack rolls in preparation to face down Haley.

[Paragon Badger]

Great comic.
Lousy plotwise, but great for the gags and such.

Redcloak has not managed to drain O'Chul of everything he knows in half this much time?? Oh, O'Chul can save a few times against all those spells, but he is going to roll that 1 eventually, and he is an open book. It really shouldn't take more than a week if Redcloak uses his full array of spells, less if he swallows his pride and lets Tsukiko help.

About all I can figure is that either Redcloak is so convinced that O'Chul must know something that he refuses to believe him when he tells him he doesn't know anything.
Rather dubious would be the idea that he just likes torturing paladins and doesn't care that the paladin doesn't know beans, or that he wants to stay here and rule the city and is using the paladin as an excuse not to leave.

For the real insane, there is the possibility that Redcloak is helping O'Chul, either that O'Chul had access to some sort of Charm Person, or for some impossible reason RedCloak is actually acting virtuous.

And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.
The spell makes sense in the dungeon, where it was aided by the walls of the castle and dungeon. But at the city, anyone of much levels can wander in any of a huge number of ways. So the spell does little good.

We still got a lot of plot-holes to repair.

It certaintly prevented the Order from regrouping. And they have been the bane of his plans once before...

Also, the city is well-supervised by hobgoblins who check everyone to be 'sufficiently evil'... a low-level spellcaster might not be able to get out of the city, but they can still send a distress beacon to a nearby city. (Heck, even high-level Haley and Belkar needed a ruse to escape the city limits)

This may explain why Solt didn't know about the city being taken over. :smallwink:

[Pvednes]

Poor old Redcloak. lol!

[fractal]

Also, the city is well-supervised by hobgoblins who check everyone to be 'sufficiently evil'... a low-level spellcaster might not be able to get out of the city, but they can still send a distress beacon to a nearby city. (Heck, even high-level Haley and Belkar needed a ruse to escape the city limits)

This may explain why Solt didn't know about the city being taken over. :smallwink:
That's a valid point. It seems like the only evidence of Azure City having been conquered may be Hinjo and crew's word for it. He could have any number of possible motives for saying such a thing, without it being true.

[soni]

I predict that we may see the return of Miko soon. She's the best corpse in Azure City that we know of, even if she is cut in half.


agreed, as ick as it sounds.

[Alfryd]

That's O'Chul.
You are correct.

[SPoD]

Redcloak has not managed to drain O'Chul of everything he knows in half this much time?? Oh, O'Chul can save a few times against all those spells, but he is going to roll that 1 eventually, and he is an open book. It really shouldn't take more than a week if Redcloak uses his full array of spells, less if he swallows his pride and lets Tsukiko help.

About all I can figure is that either Redcloak is so convinced that O'Chul must know something that he refuses to believe him when he tells him he doesn't know anything.

I think this is it. I think that given how crazy the fact that the paladins don't know anything about Girard's Gate really is, Redcloak is applying Occam's Razor. To him, it is far more likely that O-Chul has some secret means of resisting mind control/probes/etc. than it is that the paladins would deliberately operate in ignorance.


And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.

Given that he had the spell as a "freebie", is there any reason for him to have NOT cast it? I think you're looking for a level of justification that simply isn't necessary for the story to make sense. It costs him nothing to cast and it keeps foreign governments from scrying on him. Why not cast it?

Not to mention, it is actually currently WORKING. It IS keeping people out of the city, because no one is willing to go back there without solid information. The word that the city has been conquered has not spread very far beyond the Southern Lands, or the gnome wouldn't have come to trade. Xykon has to know that someone will mount a counterattack sooner or later. Anything that hampers intelligence-gathering is worth casting, whether or not it blocks transit.


The spell makes sense in the dungeon, where it was aided by the walls of the castle and dungeon. But at the city, anyone of much levels can wander in any of a huge number of ways. So the spell does little good.

"Little good" is still "good enough" when the cost is free.

[Prowl]

This strip was better than the last 20 strips combined.

I mean that both in a "this strip was great" way, and a "the last 20 strips or so were way below par" way.

Finally, OOTS is funny again!

Even though the last panel was totally telegraphed by the lawyerly phrasing of Xykon's promise, that's still OK.


Edit: maybe "last 20 strips" isn't entirely accurate. #541 and #542 were good. But the whole Azure City underground mini-arc was very disappointing. It's one thing to spend a strip on exposition, but strip after strip after strip of it, you start wondering whether the story ran out of gas.

[hajo]

We have a new named villain, Jirix :smallcool:
Is that a cleric or a general ?

[jamroar]

Hmm, what magic items are Xykon building in his working hours?
Is he attempting to repair the shattered gate himself, building some form of transport for getting them to Girard's Gate, or just sundry magic items in general?

[Oberon]

Ha!
Totally called Redcloak's reaction and why he wasn't in the preceding comics. This is about my first correct OOTs prediction.

[fractal]

Hmm, what magic items are Xykon building in his working hours?
Is he attempting to repair the shattered gate himself, building some form of transport for getting them to Girard's Gate, or just sundry magic items in general?
Well, at some point he needs to make a new Ring of Wizardry to replace the one taken from his charred fingerbone.

[factotum]

(specialized in necromancy, and who in their right mind makes a Mystic Theurge out of a sorcerer anyway)?

Who in their right mind makes a Mystic Theurge? That's probably a more meaningful question. :smallsmile:

Anyway, nice to get a joke strip every now and again, and this one was full of them. As far as why Xykon cast Cloister, presumably when he cast it he didn't realise it was going to take this long to find out about Girard's Gate, and therefore didn't foresee how boring things were going to get--Xykon isn't a big one for planning ahead anyway.

[Prowl]

One of the running meta-jokes in the strip is how pretty much nobody has a munchkinized and/or optimized character build.

The one strip in which a completely optimized character appears, well... it doesn't turn out so well for him.

[FujinAkari]

And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work.

Seems a pretty obvious thing. Xykon cast Cloister the -last- time he was researching a Gate, so he did it again here. Xykon is very much a creature of habit.

[H. Zee]

Whoa. Best strip in a long, long time. O-chul just may be the most badass paladin ever to have lived.

Also: Dire wallabies! Heh heh. Awesome.

[dogmac]

OK, OK, the shark I can believe, but ... dire wallabies.

I'm Australian. I've seen those suckers. NO ONE escapes from them alive....

[LesserHellspawn]

Who in their right mind makes a Mystic Theurge? That's probably a more meaningful question. :smallsmile:

Agreed, as there are no arcane and divine caster base classes that share the same casting stat.

[Forum Explorer]

This comic was pure gold :smallbiggrin:

Also I'm betting on sword and shield

[Kd7sov]

Och (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html), nae (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html)!


Good.

Oh, for frackssake, O-chul, just die already. You're not doing anyone any favours, except possibly Xykon.

No, no! Two things: no fear, and information.

As Redcloak pointed out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html) a while ago, paladins have no fear, which pretty much limits them to "fight or fight some more". Besides, we don't know about O-Chul's Intelligence or Wisdom, so he may not even think of a withdrawal - and besides, Hinjo didn't like the idea (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0467.html), either.

Also: while Team Evil isn't getting much out of O-Chul about the gates - what with the "not knowing anything" situation - O-Chul is learning a fair bit about them, such as key players, weaknesses, and so forth - that would be useful to an opposing force. If Roy's experience is anything like typical, he wouldn't be able to pass that information on very well dead, so he has to stay alive and hope to get out somehow.

[MasterofMockery]

Heh Heh Heh, great job on the screw themselves line. On a more serious note Redcloak seems to have really taken the reigns on everything.

[David Argall]

Seems a pretty obvious thing. Xykon cast Cloister the -last- time he was researching a Gate, so he did it again here. Xykon is very much a creature of habit.

The problem is that there is no gate to research here. It went boom. Now Xykon might consider building one, but as far as is known, he needs an epic level divine caster to do that and Redcloak is several levels short, and apparently is not involved in such a project.

As far as I can see, Xykon should have said a month or two ago "We are getting nowhere here. We are heading to the Western continent and start hunting around."

[tyckspoon]

Agreed, as there are no arcane and divine caster base classes that share the same casting stat.

Archivists (Heroes of Horror) uses Int for DCs and minimum score required to cast and Wis for number of bonus spells. Favored Souls (Com. Divine, I think) do the same with Cha and Wis. I can't think of any arcane classes that have much to do with Wis, but you can do a Theurge that can focus on just Int or Cha. Still doesn't make the Theurge much better.


As far as I can see, Xykon should have said a month or two ago "We are getting nowhere here. We are heading to the Western continent and start hunting around."

Gotta remember Xykon is not the planning or thinking type. He's waiting on Redcloak to tell him there's no further point in staying, and Redcloak seems to think he can still find something useful in the city or get O'chul to talk. They'll stay in Azure City until Redcloak decides staying is pointless or until Xykon runs out of ways to entertain himself.

[Celisasu]

Agreed, as there are no arcane and divine caster base classes that share the same casting stat.


Int: Archivist(Divine)/Wizard(Arcane)
Cha: Favored Soul(Divine)/Sorcerer(Arcane)

In the second case your divine spells will be chosen for lack of save DCs though as Cha only decides max spell level and bonus spells but not spell power. But then again with only six spells known per level(well 5 for 8th and 4 for 9th) there are plenty of good choices and you can use the sorcerer list for spells that use save DCs.

Wizard can be replaced with Wu Jen. Dread Necromancer can replace Sorcerer(and comes with rebuke Undead on a Cha caster class which can be fun). Certain optional versions of the Shugenja class use Cha instead of Wisdom meaning you can use them instead of Favored Soul if the DM permits.

Cleric is a bad choice though as no arcane caster uses Wis as a base stat.

Tsukiko obviously never read Heroes of Horror or she almost certainly would've gone Dread Necromancer/Cleric. It's obvious she's going for the lich loved feat right now. :smallsmile:

[fractal]

Agreed, as there are no arcane and divine caster base classes that share the same casting stat.
So you say! I've done a Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Mystic Theurge before! (It was for an Epic campaign, also featured levels in Monk and Blackguard, with the Ascetic Mage feat. Yay, Charisma for everything!)

For that matter, I've also done a Wizard/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge. Yes, the casting stats are different, but you get caster level brokenness. Not really suitable for regular roleplaying campaigns, but great for level 15 battle arenas.

[Laurentio]

First reading: Predicable, still necessary to lead the plot.
Second reading: Well, eh eh, some humor. A little low, and too much people speaking, but fun anyway.
Third reading (yes, I read three times... don't ask): Oh my Goddess... Redclock is Hermione Grendel! Xylon is right, he is a nerd!

Ok, still predicable, humor ok, and now we know a great true: evil teams are exactly disfunctional as good teams. The nerd, the idiot, the chick, the butch...

PS: Xylon DON'T have to spend time to get back his spells, if he doesn't use. Probably, the only spell he used in weeks is "Cold ray".

Laurentio

[fractal]

As Redcloak pointed out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html) a while ago, paladins have no fear, which pretty much limits them to "fight or fight some more". Besides, we don't know about O-Chul's Intelligence or Wisdom, so he may not even think of a withdrawal - and besides, Hinjo didn't like the idea (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0467.html), either.
I guess to give Miko credit, she was much more practical than that. She correctly deduced that retreat was the correct option after escaping from Xykon's Forcecage (although trying to kill Redcloak again must no doubt have been tempting).

[Theodoriph]

Third reading (yes, I read three times... don't ask): Oh my Goddess... Redclock is Hermione Grendel! Xylon is right, he is a nerd!

Laurentio



Hermione Granger not Grendel....though you did just give me an idea on who Xykon should get O'Chul to fight next. :smallwink:

[Holammer]

Hats and helmets off for an excellent strip. I just love these talkie strips that are just crammed with tons of quotable dialogue.

The Orange Guy was updated to Jirix too. What is in store for that fellow or does Rich just like to mess with us, giving every unimportant character there is a name to throw us off? :smallamused:
Surely someone will cry and make a Club in his honour when he gets whacked in the upcoming strips.

[holywhippet]

Does anyone get the demon cockroach's line in the second to last panel?

All I can think of is that its a reference to Eberron, which has both lightning-powered trains and dinosaur-riding halflings.

It's reference to Benito Mussolini, the former ruler of Italy. See this article for details: http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

[Laurentio]

It's reference to Benito Mussolini, the former ruler of Italy.
"A" former ruler of Italy. We had so many rulers and government forms that is quite confusing for us, too. And yes, now I see the reference. It was a common saying at that time, that "Under Mussolini trains always go on the right time table".

BTW, sorry for the "Granger" missprint... but I blame Windows correction tool. What you can't blame to Windows?

Laurentio

[Prowl]

Reading through it again, there's a missed opportunity at yet another cultural reference.

"Mr. Green Genes" is a Frank Zappa song from ~1968.

[Child Conscript]

Well about Jirix, I'm going by Rich's Biology, if they have a name they must be a recurble character (unless they are a Goat,dragon lion thing you know what, I'm talking about )

[slb]

So, what's behind Door #3 ?

Is it a pun I don't get or some surprise Rich is preparing us ? I hardly see what kind of prisoner would motivate O'Chul to come back should he accidentally dies...

[Illiander]

Y´know, the first thing I thought when I got to the end of this strip was: "Tons of people are going to start talking about Tsuko raising the remains of Miko, and only one person has?!? Where are the Miko fanboeys?


but I blame Windows correction tool. What you can't blame to Windows?
Laurentio

You mean Microsoft, but yeah... you can even blame MS for LINUX :smallcool:

[B9anders]

Gotta remember Xykon is not the planning or thinking type. He's waiting on Redcloak to tell him there's no further point in staying, and Redcloak seems to think he can still find something useful in the city or get O'chul to talk. They'll stay in Azure City until Redcloak decides staying is pointless or until Xykon runs out of ways to entertain himself.

Disagree (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html).

Xykon is in it for the fun, but he's smart. He does things that appear reckless, but in the aftermath it always turns that he had in fact assesed the situation correctly.

[Prowl]

So, what's behind Door #3 ?

Is it a pun I don't get or some surprise Rich is preparing us ? I hardly see what kind of prisoner would motivate O'Chul to come back should he accidentally dies...

It's a pun... from an old game show, "Let's Make a Deal". Monty Hall was the host.

"Monty Haul" is a play on words on his name used to describe RPG environments where treasure is excessively abundant.

[KIDS]

Again poking at Eberron? LOL :)

The enemy side is going to fall apart due to entropy, I feel pity for Redcloak...

[Tundar]

I wonder how many xp O'Chul gets for all these encounters. The difficulty rating must be soaring high.

And poor poor Redcloak - noone understands the workload a CEO has.

[SKarious]

What a great strip! Every single panel made me laugh out loud. I really like Team Evil's dynamic.
Thank you Rich for this hilarious strip. :smallsmile:
That was definitely worth the wait.

[spectralphoenix]

Disagree (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html).

Xykon is in it for the fun, but he's smart. He does things that appear reckless, but in the aftermath it always turns that he had in fact assesed the situation correctly.

I think that Xykon does things that are reckless because he knows that he's powerful enough that he can make up for poor planning with raw power or minions. If the paladin dies, he'll just have more hobgoblins devoted to digging through the ruins, or lose more hobgoblins to traps when he gets there, or whatever. No biggie. Xykon can be canny enough when he's facing a truly challenging problem, but sometimes simply doesn't bother thinking ahead. Like at the Redmountain Gate - he could've been passing out Fingers of Death like candy, but instead just tossed some magic missiles and stuff. It wasn't the best idea, but he went with it because he didn't see the Order as a threat worth the effort.

Redcloak on the other hand is all about strategy and efficiency - getting the most possible gain out of resources and dealing with threats decisively. Unlike Xykon, who has pretty much always been more powerful than those around him, Redcloak has been pitted against opponents who could destroy him in an open fight for years. He's accustomed to having finite resources that he can't afford to be sloppy with. Additionally, Redcloak (to some degree) cares about his subordinates - he doesn't want to lose more goblins than necessary, and as such wants the best information possible going in.

So it isn't so much a question of Xykon being stupid, he's just intellectually lazy.

[pjackson]

I wonder how many xp O'Chul gets for all these encounters. The difficulty rating must be soaring high.

I doubt he his getting that much xp.
To get xp he must defeat them.
He lost to the basilisk.
In the strip shown he killed one low level hobgoblin.
If the hobgoblin were 1st level and O'Chul 9th then he would not get anything for that.

The dire wombats were probably worth a bit though.

[HOLEkevin]

So it isn't so much a question of Xykon being stupid, he's just intellectually lazy.

Hey, I just figured out who Xykon represents in real life!

It's funny, because this last strip is exactly the kind of strip I normally love the most. Screw the plot-advancing action strips, I like it best when Rich struts his dialoging skills and lets the characters be themselves for awhile. Only… I don't know for sure, but this one seemed a little less inspired, and a little more forced. You could hear the rim-shots bouncing off of the panels, and you had to know what the the final joke was going to be the moment Redcloak walked on the set. None of it was bad, mind you, I thought it was amusing. Only that Rich can, and frequently does, do better.

Anyway, OotS forever, and I'll see you next strip!

[Blaznak]

Whoa! WAAAY too many jokes per panel to catch up! Fantastic! Is this the most JPP ever in an OOTS strip (Jokes per panel)?

kewl!

Later!

[Tavenknaughtlin]

It's reference to Benito Mussolini, the former ruler of Italy. See this article for details: http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

It's definitely inspired by the political saying, but it's also obviously poking fun at Eberron, which is known for it's Lightning Trains and rampant Dinosaurs.

Both of which are why i love Eberron :smallbiggrin: .

[Niknokitueu]

Wow, Rich.

Like just Wow.

Trying to think of something witty to say, but sorry, you're stuck with Wow. Like really Wow.

So many questions answered, so many more to ask. Like, Wow.
"I can only make magic items for eight hours a day..."

I think I'm gonna really love it when this one matures.


Please sir, can we have some more?

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[happyturtle]

I doubt he his getting that much xp.
To get xp he must defeat them.
He lost to the basilisk.
In the strip shown he killed one low level hobgoblin.
If the hobgoblin were 1st level and O'Chul 9th then he would not get anything for that.

The dire wombats were probably worth a bit though.

I asked my DM if he got any XP for the acid shark episode, and he said O'Chul defeated the trap, and the shark, and the CR would be increased 1-2 for having no equipment. So if O'Chul was in our campaign, he'd be earning XP. Your campaign may vary.

[Saph]

This strip's starting to get kind of depressing to read.

- Saph

[snoopy13a]

Not the TPS Reports!

Who does Redcloak think he is? Lumbergh?

[Fluff]

:mitd: :Your screws have thumbs on them? Neat! I wonder if they can screw themselves...

Ahh monster, your cluelessness to double entrendres never ceases to amuse me.

[Elfanatic]

Redcloak is funny as always.

[Callista]

I wonder if O-Chul knows that Xykon would be having random prisoners killing each other (even more often) if he weren't dreaming up new deathtraps? 'Cause that seems like a good reason for him not to "just die already".

I agree that Xykon probably figures O-Chul has a way of avoiding revealing things under mind control, rather than simply not knowing anything. Else, why would Redcloak be using torture, and why would he still be at it after such a long time?

Miko's body? by this point, you'd have a skeleton... all you'd need would be some sovreign glue along the broken backbone, and you'd have a whole skeleton again. But Tsu had no idea how high-level she was, so I don't think she's gonna try that. If I were her, I'd get myself an ogre corpse and soup it up with a bunch of special abilities.

[Mauve Shirt]

TWO DOZEN RABID DIRE WOMBATS!
Those little suckers can fight!

[Ikialev]

Where i can bui lava-breathing shark? :3

[Estelindis]

"I've watched him break bones even *I* didn't know humans had..." :smallfrown: I've got to say, although there was an astonishing quantity of good jokes in this strip, overall it had me feeling quite sad. Poor O-Chul...

[factotum]

"I've watched him break bones even *I* didn't know humans had..."

Actually, I was just thinking about that, and I'm a bit worried about that statement. It means that O-Chul must have been fighting humans for Xykon's amusement at some point, but as far as we know the only human who is willingly part of Team Evil is Tsukiko, and I doubt she would have been put in harm's way like that--so who, exactly, has O-Chul been fighting? Captured slaves?

[Belkar Rocks]

Heh.

You know, one of the things I like about OotS is that the evil characters are really evil. And man, those guys are wonderfully evil.


"Rabid dire wallabies." :smallbiggrin:

[Estelindis]

Actually, I was just thinking about that, and I'm a bit worried about that statement. It means that O-Chul must have been fighting humans for Xykon's amusement at some point, but as far as we know the only human who is willingly part of Team Evil is Tsukiko, and I doubt she would have been put in harm's way like that--so who, exactly, has O-Chul been fighting? Captured slaves?
Um, I assumed it meant O-Chul's own bones were broken.

[rman]

On a more serious note Redcloak seems to have really taken the reigns on everything.

Well someone has to be the lawfull version of evil. Or at least the non-Chaotic one with intelligence.

[Wych]

Loved Redcloak's attitude, "look at the condition he's in. cure minor wounds."

[rman]

Miko's body? by this point, you'd have a skeleton... all you'd need would be some sovreign glue along the broken backbone, and you'd have a whole skeleton again. But Tsu had no idea how high-level she was, so I don't think she's gonna try that. If I were her, I'd get myself an ogre corpse and soup it up with a bunch of special abilities.

Wasn't Tsukiko in jail when the fallen Miko was thrown in there. Tsukiko would know Miko used to be a Paladin from Belkar's gloating and would know that Miko and Belkar had gone a few rounds. Given subsequent encounters with Belkar Tsukiko would know Miko had been pretty tough even if as a citizen of Azure city Tsukiko had not been aware of #1 Paladin.

There is also the possibility that Tsukiko would know Miko had pretty much single handedly taken the whole OOTS on.

[Estelindis]

Wasn't Tsukiko in jail when the fallen Miko was thrown in there. Tsukiko would know Miko used to be a Paladin from Belkar's gloating and would know that Miko and Belkar had gone a few rounds. Given subsequent encounters with Belkar Tsukiko would know Miko had been pretty tough even if as a citizen of Azure city Tsukiko had not been aware of #1 Paladin.

There is also the possibility that Tsukiko would know Miko had pretty much single handedly taken the whole OOTS on.
May I refer you to the last panel of this strip? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html

[Calinero]

Awesome strip! I'm really torn...on the one hand, the strip was funny. it had good jokes. On the other hand, it's revealing that O-Chul has been in a living hell for the past few months, which doesn't make me feel like laughing.

Oh, and I can't imagine O-Chul is going to be too happy with Belkar, assuming they ever meet again. In fact, I think that have a revelation about how Belkar was responsible for O-Chul's fate might just be the final straw that convinces Haley that something needs to be done about Belkar.

[WuanAnselm]

The dire wombats were probably worth a bit though.


TWO DOZEN RABID DIRE WOMBATS!
Those little suckers can fight!

Wallabies.

[ringsnake]

In Start of Darkness it is revealed that the reason that Redcloak bothers with Xykon at all is that he needs both an Arcane and Divine spellcaster to take over the gate.

Tsukiko is both, and in theory could take control of a gate all on her own. I wonder if we just saw a future plot point develop here.

[silvadel]

Ok -- first off Redcloak is really getting fed up with Xykon and etc -- you can see how it pained him having to deal with the "children" as superiors.

As for Ochul -- Redcloak is missing a big opportunity to act as good cop. With all of the creative (maybe he took a feat from belkar) mischief Xykon has been doing with Ochul, an approach like "Those idiots -- it is hard to keep someone in line you cant order around. You know if you dont tell me what I want to know they might just manage to come up with something even worse for you. And the sooner you tell me the sooner I can move my focus away from Azure City....."

As for the people speculating about miko -- that was my first thought too and I was hoping nobody would say anything so it would be let happen rather than having it blurted all over the place -- just seems kind of perfect to me -- something to further mess with her soul and ochuls mind because miko was one of their top paladins and just seeing her brought back as an undead could be something that could break his resolve.

And the orange guy got a name -- he is scaring me a bit as if Xykon really gets upset with Redcloak he will need a goblin replacement -- is Jirix being groomed for the job?

As for cure minor wounds from redcloak -- that was to stabilize him -- he was in the negatives and obviously nobody bothered to stabilize the guy so he was about to die within rounds.

[Johnny Blade]

Basilisk Staring Contest! :smallbiggrin:

This strip was rife with great jokes, but this one just killed me for some reason.

"He never blinked.", heh. :smallamused:

[banjo1985]

Great strip, I'm really starting to like Redcloak, he's like a teacher friend of mine :smallbiggrin:

I'ts like dealing with 4 year olds in kindergarten, I'm glad Redcloak's got more patience than I have.

[rman]

May I refer you to the last panel of this strip? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html

In the heat of the battle with only memorized spells. It would have been raise-dead and not make-death-knight a total waste of a good resource. Also it was a good "go on do it" point for us back room directors.

So far Tsukiko has commanded mindless undead and the "can I have shoes" wights. She probably does not have the power for a full self willed undead. Now with Xykons help for the O'chul game it can be a full on seek-and-destroy-the-halfling-and-the-rest-of-the-OOTS undead Miko wonder.

[the_tick_rules]

redcloak and Xykon should have a sitcom. What was that 80's one when the two totally incompatible people shared an apartment?

[Kyeudo]

May I refer you to the last panel of this strip? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html

That was two months ago, and when it comes to making most upper level undead you tend to start patching body parts together. As long as Miko's corpse still exists, then she can be easily brought back.

[SteveMB]

Redcloak has not managed to drain O'Chul of everything he knows in half this much time?? Oh, O'Chul can save a few times against all those spells, but he is going to roll that 1 eventually, and he is an open book. It really shouldn't take more than a week if Redcloak uses his full array of spells, less if he swallows his pride and lets Tsukiko help.

About all I can figure is that either Redcloak is so convinced that O'Chul must know something that he refuses to believe him when he tells him he doesn't know anything.

Rather dubious would be the idea that he just likes torturing paladins and doesn't care that the paladin doesn't know beans, or that he wants to stay here and rule the city and is using the paladin as an excuse not to leave.

Start of Darkness info on Redcloak's background:
Redcloak is a fanatic. One definition of "fanatic" is someone who responds to the failure of his current approach by redoubling his efforts. Thus, he keeps trying to get information out of O-Chul long after most people would have accepted that he simply doesn't have any information to give, and keeps doing so until he reaches the end of his ability to rationalize that just one more try will do the trick (and his ability to rationalize has gotten quite a workout over the years: see "fanatic").


And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.

Hmmm... perhaps
Xykon, having a rather higher than warranted opinion of his cleverness, is paranoid that somebody else will steal his ingenious plan to take over the world. Ergo, an anti-scrying spell.

[Solara]

Great comic, but I couldn't really laugh, most of the jokes just made me wince for poor O'Chul. :(

[Shovah]

Thank you Rich, thank you. You've brought me back to the point where I'll check this site several times per hour to see if the comic has been updated, even if I know it has only been a few hours since the last time.
All this, of course, while I'm meant to be doing work.

Thank you.:smallsmile:

[GreenArmadillo]

Oh, for frackssake, O-chul, just die already. You're not doing anyone any favours, except possibly Xykon.

This is a valid point. Ordinarily a Paladin might frown on suicide, but in this situation it would be more of a sacrifice to keep information out of the enemy's hands. The only trick is how to rig it so that he actually dies before Xykon can intervene, but that shark is probably good for a fair amount of damage per round, plus damage from the acid and the spikes. Unless Xykon has threatened off-camera to send other innocent prisoners into the death traps if O-chul dies or gives up (which I suppose is possible), there is no good reason for him not to have found some way to take his own life.

[Vanguard]

I've gotta admit, the bit about the Basilisk reeks of badassery. :smallsmile:



Yeah, yeah it dose. :smallsmile:

[Scribble]

Alright, new great comic up.

I agree the first thought I had when I saw something about making a new undead warrior was people saying it would be Miko, which I'm not really for.. let her remain dead, in whatever plane she's in now.

Also, am I the only one that foresees Redcloak usurping Xykon? Redcloak is the holder of his phylactery.. a pretty big bargaining chip. I think he's going get enough power he no longer needs Xykon.. and then just discard him, which for evil folks means truedeath.

[AutomatedTeller]

that was quite possibly the funniest comic I've seen in this strip.

TPS reports and dire wallabies were just the top.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Man. The more I see Redcloak the more I feel sorry for him! How does he manage to put up with all that?!:smallfrown:

[silvadel]

redcloak and Xykon should have a sitcom. What was that 80's one when the two totally incompatible people shared an apartment?


The Odd Couple.

[Morgan Wick]

And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.
The spell makes sense in the dungeon, where it was aided by the walls of the castle and dungeon. But at the city, anyone of much levels can wander in any of a huge number of ways. So the spell does little good.

Maybe Xykon thinks it does more than it actually does? Perhaps because of his dungeon experiences? It would not be out of character, or out of the realm of possibility, at all.

About "paladins have no fear"... if Redcloak was smart, he'd know that torturing him is pretty much worthless, especially if it's anything less than what Xykon and Co. have been doing.


Y´know, the first thing I thought when I got to the end of this strip was: "Tons of people are going to start talking about Tsuko raising the remains of Miko, and only one person has?!? Where are the Miko fanboeys?

The idea has already been brought up and rejected (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html). Regardless of anything else, the fact that Tsukiko entertained the idea of raising Miko, and decided against it, means that the idea will never occur to her ever again.


In Start of Darkness it is revealed that the reason that Redcloak bothers with Xykon at all is that he needs both an Arcane and Divine spellcaster to take over the gate.

Tsukiko is both, and in theory could take control of a gate all on her own. I wonder if we just saw a future plot point develop here.

You mean, could Redcloak eventually tell Xykon to get lost? Would Xykon then attempt to team up with the OOTS to defeat Redcloak?

[David Argall]

This would be an excellent way to get Miko back, but I'd not bet that it happens. Our writer has "missed" too many other chances to bring her back on stage and her exit was too final.
Still, it is tempting...
Now we might note that the intelligent undead often require an evil body to create [not an absolute rule, and Xykon did think he could turn Miko into an evil undead, but there is still that tendency and that is enough for our purposes]. So when Tsukiko uses the good body of Miko, she ends up with a good undead. Miko grabs the nearest weapons and starts flailing away [and for the perverted, one notes that Tsukiko has been a bad girl who needs to be punished, and loves undead, and Miko was a hot chick and should be a hot undead too, so if the weapon happens to be a whip...]. Alternately she might be a way for O'Chul to escape, or become a foe of the party again. [Note in that case, we need some limiting factor. If she just charges in to kill them, it's dull. She needs a reason to interact, possibly for a very long time, before she gets fatal.]

SoD
In Start of Darkness it is revealed that the reason that Redcloak bothers with Xykon at all is that he needs both an Arcane and Divine spellcaster to take over the gate.

Tsukiko is both, and in theory could take control of a gate all on her own. I wonder if we just saw a future plot point develop here.
While we don't know for sure, the evidence suggests she is much too low a level for it to work. By current theory you need two epic level casters [or 1 plus the redcloak, which as an artifact is epic level]. So far, Tsukiko has shown no evidence of being close to that level. So she probably can't replace either yet. And replacing both would be at least harder, if possible at all.

[Morgan Wick]

Hey, I just had a thought. What if Tsukiko brings back not Miko... but Roy???

No, wait, she'd probably need the corpse. Scratch that. Unless... What if some force tracks down and captures Haley, Celia, and company right now?

[Renegade Paladin]

Good.

Oh, for frackssake, O-chul, just die already. You're not doing anyone any favours, except possibly Xykon.
Oh, come on; he's only been not-dying in the face of these odds for three strips. :smalltongue: I think we can give him a little more rope than that.

[factotum]

Also, am I the only one that foresees Redcloak usurping Xykon? Redcloak is the holder of his phylactery.. a pretty big bargaining chip. I think he's going get enough power he no longer needs Xykon.. and then just discard him, which for evil folks means truedeath.

No. Won't happen. For a start, him holding Xykon's phylactery means two things--jack and squat; destroying the phylactery will have no effect unless Xykon's physical form has already been destroyed, and Xykon is a lot more powerful than Redcloak. If Redcloak was going to pull a trick like that he already missed his best opportunity to do so, namely, after the Order defeated Xykon in the Dungeon of Dorukan.

Secondly, Redcloak needs an arcane caster to carry out his Plan, and chances are Tsukiko is not high enough level to fill that role.

Thirdly, Start of Darkness spoilers:


Redcloak killed his own younger brother in order to stop him harming Xykon. If he kills Xykon now, he has to face up to the fact he killed his own flesh and blood for nothing...and, as Xykon rightly pointed out, he doesn't have the guts to do that.

[Megalomaniac2]

This one's fantastic. I love that Tsukiko doesn't know the whole plan yet, and the basilisk line made me laugh hard.

[Prowl]

Don't mean to be a 'vigilante mod' but it might be polite for people who posted SoD spoilers to hide that information so as not to ruin things for people who haven't yet purchased the book.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

OK, any ideas of what kind of undead warrior Tsukiko might make? Since she sees the undead as her children, she will want something that wont get hurt too badly by O-Chul, but will provide the entertainment value Xykon desires.

[Wanderer]

I'm disappointed in you, Redcloak. You should really have seen through that. A general injunction "don't do anything that endangers the prisoner's life in any way" would be wiser than specifics like that. It's like dealing with children: either learn to predict EVERY possible thing they could possibly do wrong and restrict them, or set a single restriction that covers all of them.

[Zrana]

The Odd Couple.

80s sitcom. I think it the answer we're looking for is Perfect Strangers. Balky always cracked me up. :smallbiggrin:

And D= wah. Bootsie didn't get to show up again. I demand more wight screen time! Or not. I guess I can live without it. But I'll be pouting for now!

[Lupy]

I think Tussiko deserves her own smiley about now. Especially if we're back to team evil time. (Go villains!)

[stsasser]

I'm disappointed in you, Redcloak. You should really have seen through that. A general injunction "don't do anything that endangers the prisoner's life in any way" ....

He's jus' a goblin, jus' tryin' to do his goblin best...besides, that general injunction might permit him to put himself in a position where his guards had to let him escape rather than 'endanger' him.

[ChaoticEvilGuy]

an undead gladiator! who will it be????

[Liwen]

Wow, this strip made me remember just how much the Redcloak and Xykon contrast is hilarious. That was just like in the old times, when darkness started.

[Dentarg]

Ahh, a Bill Lumberg Office Space reference, thanks for that!

Excellent work, Giant! Classic!

- Dentarg

[Kish]

He's jus' a goblin, jus' tryin' to do his goblin best...besides, that general injunction might permit him to put himself in a position where his guards had to let him escape rather than 'endanger' him.
More to the point, Redcloak works for Xykon, not the other way around. If Redcloak pushed too hard, Xykon would simply refuse, or kill O-chul out of hand to make a point.

[Laurentio]

an undead gladiator! who will it be????
Could be... a masked gladiator... with female body... that could be... or could be not... MIKO... but we will never... NEVER... know!

Because the Giant is BAAAAAAAAD!

Laurentio

[mroozee]

Great comic.
Lousy plotwise, but great for the gags and such.

Redcloak has not managed to drain O'Chul of everything he knows in half this much time?? Oh, O'Chul can save a few times against all those spells, but he is going to roll that 1 eventually, and he is an open book. It really shouldn't take more than a week if Redcloak uses his full array of spells, less if he swallows his pride and lets Tsukiko help.

About all I can figure is that either Redcloak is so convinced that O'Chul must know something that he refuses to believe him when he tells him he doesn't know anything.
Rather dubious would be the idea that he just likes torturing paladins and doesn't care that the paladin doesn't know beans, or that he wants to stay here and rule the city and is using the paladin as an excuse not to leave.

For the real insane, there is the possibility that Redcloak is helping O'Chul, either that O'Chul had access to some sort of Charm Person, or for some impossible reason RedCloak is actually acting virtuous.

And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.
The spell makes sense in the dungeon, where it was aided by the walls of the castle and dungeon. But at the city, anyone of much levels can wander in any of a huge number of ways. So the spell does little good.

We still got a lot of plot-holes to repair.

O'Chul might be receiving insubstantial help from Soon or Shojo. But there is no evidence of this presented so far. May not be a plot-hole so much as an unrevealed plot-point.

Cloister, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense for a powerful character who is worried about an assassination or rescue attempt. Xykon either knows or suspects that his enemies have access to both Scrying and Teleport. Mind Blank might be good enough to protect him, but Cloister allows him to cover himself, Redcloak, O'Chul and anyone or anything else in town that might be a target. If a thief, would-be assassin or rescue scout happens to locate him, she can't easily communicate this information to her strike force.

[Vaarsuvius4181]

well, i dought everything everyone of you is saying. Xykon cant remember the only guy in like, what, 20 years? to defeat him, so its highly improbable he would remember the band of followers that he probably never saw face to face and that he never fought. And, i think O chul is one of these days going to get rescued or saved, because the put to much emphasis on the creature in the darks bet. so i think they will tie it off with a nice joke. And third, redcloak is MUCH more responsible and about a hundred more times intelligent. He probably knows all the names of the order of the stick, so he must have a good reason for questioning. Thats it

[Zienth]

Hmm, what magic items are Xykon building in his working hours?
Is he attempting to repair the shattered gate himself, building some form of transport for getting them to Girard's Gate, or just sundry magic items in general?

Probably a Slingbox to connect to his TiVo so he can watch it from anywhere.

Zienth

[Itdano]

Punchline = Delivered

I haven't laughed that hard at anything in a while. So many jokes crammed onto one page. Of course, it probably helps that every time Xykon says something I keep hearing Dr. Drakken from Kim Possible. And now Whatsherface sounds like Shego.

[Wreckingrocc]

That Office Space reference made my day. Not really, but still... It made me laugh, which I normally only do for Mel Brooks or Monty Python movies.:smallsmile:

[Vanguard]

Look's like Tsukiko is getting interested in those gate's, which could mean Redcloak or Xycon or maybe even the dude in the Umbra will have to explain it to her. Perhaps she knows something about them? Perhaps Redcloak will spill to much of le beans, or mayby it has no relevance whatsoever and I'm just crazy.
What ever it is, i can't wait.:smallamused:

[Tykus]

Dire wallabies (?!) = Killer Kangaroos!:smallbiggrin:

To paraphrase Haley: "Geez, Redcloak, put some ranks in Sense Motive aleady."

[Vanguard]

Punchline = Delivered

I haven't laughed that hard at anything in a while. So many jokes crammed onto one page. Of course, it probably helps that every time Xykon says something I keep hearing Dr. Drakken from Kim Possible. And now Whatsherface sounds like Shego.

Heh, yeah. :smallbiggrin:

[theinsulabot]

Hey, I just had a thought. What if Tsukiko brings back not Miko... but Roy???

No, wait, she'd probably need the corpse. Scratch that. Unless... What if some force tracks down and captures Haley, Celia, and company right now?

kind of contrived, but theoretically possible

[Black of Night]

I nearly fell out of my chair with the Office Space references....

Excellent strip as usual, thanks!

[Callista]

OK, any ideas of what kind of undead warrior Tsukiko might make? Since she sees the undead as her children, she will want something that wont get hurt too badly by O-Chul, but will provide the entertainment value Xykon desires.One word: Incorporeal!

[Zinthius]

This is a valid point. Ordinarily a Paladin might frown on suicide, but in this situation it would be more of a sacrifice to keep information out of the enemy's hands. The only trick is how to rig it so that he actually dies before Xykon can intervene, but that shark is probably good for a fair amount of damage per round, plus damage from the acid and the spikes. Unless Xykon has threatened off-camera to send other innocent prisoners into the death traps if O-chul dies or gives up (which I suppose is possible), there is no good reason for him not to have found some way to take his own life.

Fair thinking, but there's a major flaw in that... several actually... one because of Soon's Oath, he has no information to give to the enemy. Also, he is a paladin, he doesn't just give up. He is proud and determined and will always do anything in his power. He was beaten up and near dead, but he still made an attempt to take out Xykon rather than hightailing it out of there... and judging by Xykon's comment, this isn't the first time he's done it. Paladins, generally speaking, have only two concerns... honor and duty...

...which brings up an interesting point... were Redcloak to attempt to ressurect Ochu, might he not heed the call simply as a chance to take another stab at vanquishing Xykon?

Also, whomever brought up the Redcloak secretly working with Ochu... not possible... while he may not like things with Xykon, he hates the paladins and would never help one if it could at all be avoided... the cure light wounds was only to preserve him so he could be tortured... after all Paladins killed his family. Also Ochu would never consent to working secretly with Redcloak either... his pride would have him spitting in Redcloak's face were he to offer, his class requirements would not allow him to associate with Redcloak because of his alignment, and Ochu is a paladin, and as mentioned before in one of the comics, they're not exactly known for deception...

[Arkenputtyknife]

I'm going to put on my grammar nazi hat for a moment, because this is something that's been bugging me for a long time and if it isn't vented, my brain will explode.

“Whom”, “whomever”, “whomsoever” are objective forms. Please don't use them as the subjects of verbs; use “who”, “whoever”, “whosoever”.

The objective forms are considered obsolescent in many literary quarters, so if you're not sure which to use, use “who” etc. Overcorrection is a bigger mistake than simply getting it wrong.

Okay, you can wake up again now.

[spectralphoenix]

RE: Cloister

Why not? It's not like Xykon had anything else to do with his epic spell slots that day, and the focus apparently wasn't consumed. So as long as you have the spell, it wouldn't hurt to cast it. It helps keep some of the adventurer types from barging in and disrupting things, and it doesn't cost Xykon anything.

[Morchaint]

A. Stupendous Comic.

b. Double comic.

Hey thats my line, and the Office space thing, were the faves for me. :D

[Wikkin]

my brain will explode.
Your pet peaves are your problem. The point of language is communication, and if the receiver understands the message then communication was successful. No grammar Mikos necessary.

Wik

[Arkenputtyknife]

Your pet peaves are your problem. The point of language is communication, and if the receiver understands the message then communication was successful. No grammar Mikos necessary.
Foolishness. Here are some of the many possible responses to that.

First, I quite agree that the purpose is communication, but this begs the question of what happens when and why communication fails. I've seen too many cases of communication failing due to bad grammar — twisting the message into something it was not intended to be, sometimes harmlessly, sometimes to comic effect, and sometimes disastrously — to accept this claim unchallenged. Thus, grammar matters if you don't want to be misunderstood.

Second, bad grammar puts a burden on the reader. The greater the number of errors in a post, the more the readers will have to stop and re-parse to understand your intended meaning — in the worst case, ending up with a meaning you did not intend, or giving up altogether. If you don't care about that, well, you have no business complaining when your point doesn't get across, or if people stop reading your posts because it's too much like hard work.

Third, getting grammar right isn't easy. The English language is, quite frankly, a beast: an unholy collection of random special cases that have to be learned one by one. There's some logic in there, but precious little. Learning all those special cases takes a lifetime even with constant study. I've been on the planet more than half a century and the blasted language is still throwing surprises at me. I really don't think it hurts you or anyone else if, once in a while, someone who's been there and done that passes on a tip and saves you the trouble of falling into the same pratfall.

So with all due respect, Wikkin, I think you're completely and utterly wrong. When it comes to grammar, my pet peeves are not my problem; they're everyone's problem, because everyone stands the risk of being misunderstood through bad writing.

(And of course if you hadn't responded to my little rant, you wouldn't now be getting this lecture. Think about that.)

From a fanfic, here is an excellent example of the result of a trivial, common grammatical error: “It's my turn to eat Tenchi.” In this case, the error actually resulted in a syntactically correct sentence, with a meaning completely different from the author's intention. What did the author mean?

[Morchaint]

Grammer? as in: No, sorry, my grammer isnt here, she is etc etc. lol jk.

I have found a phrase that fits here.

Let sleeping bad writers lie.

people get wayyy too caught up in silly grammer discussions.

Besides its not like you will/can/could POSSIBLY change them, or how they
write/type/think. so why expend energy or time trying to force them to do otherwise?

edit. Don't bother trying to correct MY grammer issues either. I dont care

[Kish]

Besides its not like you will/can/could POSSIBLY change them, or how they
write/type/think. so why expend energy or time trying to force them to do otherwise?
The ironic thing, is that this post is trying to convince people who object to bad grammar to change their actions (stop objecting to bad grammar).

[Estelindis]

I am very much in favour of good and correct grammar. I think it adds precision in communication. However, I really don't see why the subject was introduced to this thread. I think it would do better with a topic of its own.

[Querzis]

This is a valid point. Ordinarily a Paladin might frown on suicide, but in this situation it would be more of a sacrifice to keep information out of the enemy's hands. The only trick is how to rig it so that he actually dies before Xykon can intervene, but that shark is probably good for a fair amount of damage per round, plus damage from the acid and the spikes. Unless Xykon has threatened off-camera to send other innocent prisoners into the death traps if O-chul dies or gives up (which I suppose is possible), there is no good reason for him not to have found some way to take his own life.

...But he doesnt have any information anyway. Beside hes been doing two very important things: entertaining Xykon and keeping Redcloak busy. If he woudnt have done that, all the humans slaves left and the Resisitance would have been exterminated a long time ago.

And even if he dont know there is any other humans still alive in AC, hes still killing a few hobgobelins, hes gaining a few levels and hes keeping Redcloak and Xykon from thinking about everyone who left in the boats.

And by the way, on whole grammar thing: I'm not english and I'm sure pretty much half of the people here arent english. So, since I learned english mainly from videogames, books, shows or movies I had to read Arkenputtyknife post five times before I could understand what he said. I never heard someone speak english like you do. Dont act like the way you write is supposed to be better on the internet. As wikkyn said the whole point of language is communication and I'm sure most of my friends woudnt be able to understand what you just wrote (and yes, they all speak english). So if you really want to be a grammar nazi, at least try not to write like a guy who got a bachelor in english litterature because you are gonna be misunderstood by a lot more people on the internet if you write like that then if you have really bad grammar. Remember, on the internet, most of the people you are talking to arent english, are childrens or teenagers, never finished high school or all of those.

...or at least I think thats what Arkenputtyknife was talking about. I'm still trying to guess what re-parse means. I searched it on google and now I know a reparse point is a type of NTSF file in windows 2000...I'm so confused.

[Eran of Arcadia]

"Begging the question" means using circular reasoning, not "raising the question".

So ha.

[Freelance Henchman]

Hehe I love bureaucracy lampooning. Redcloak is great as the stiff Upper/Middle Management type with a memo/report fetish :smallcool:

[dpm]

Does anyone get the demon cockroach's line in the second to last panel?

All I can think of is that its a reference to Eberron, which has both lightning-powered trains and dinosaur-riding halflings.It's reference to Benito Mussolini, the former ruler of Italy.
There was also a reference to "magic trains" in #344.

ok
dpm

[dpm]

And we still have no idea why Xykon cast Cloister, except that it made the plot work. The spell is worthless in keeping out anybody who is actually a threat to him, and the lesser folk it might keep away Xykon would consider an amusement.


Hmmm... perhaps Xykon, having a rather higher than warranted opinion of his cleverness, is paranoid that somebody else will steal his ingenious plan to take over the world. Ergo, an anti-scrying spell.


Maybe Xykon thinks it does more than it actually does? Perhaps because of his dungeon experiences? It would not be out of character, or out of the realm of possibility, at all.


Cloister, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense for a powerful character who is worried about an assassination or rescue attempt.

He did it purely because it was so cool (after all, look at all he went through just to get a non-magical crown: "badass . . . REALLY badass" was his only reason). How many times has a major city ever been cloistered before? Probably zero, so bonus style points right there.

ok
dpm

[Kcalehc]

I thought Redcloak was evil before, but this comic shows me he is something worse; he is a bureaucrat.

[Callista]

So, Lawful Evil, then?

[Kilarny]

Shamus Young, regarding Rich Burlew:
"His strips are able to advance the story and deliver the funny at the same time."
And once again, it is true. Good comic - I almost feel sorry for Redcloak sometimes. Almost.

It was this page of Young's 'DM of the Rings' that led me to OOTS, which I now Refresh eagerly. If you are a D&D player and have not read it, you'll probably find it funny.
DM of the Rings XXXIX (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=796.html)

[Vaarsuvius4181]

Nice, though im not sure it will have anything to do with the story. I am beginning to miss the days back in the dungeon with all of them together battling....that was probably the peek of the comic for me. Now it seems very distant. Oh well, one of these days redcloak is gonna die, so i guess it doesnt matter. And i still think o chul will escape.

[Vaarsuvius4181]

Nice, though im not sure it will have anything to do with the story. I am beginning to miss the days back in the dungeon with all of them together battling....that was probably the peek of the comic for me. Now it seems very distant. Oh well, one of these days redcloak is gonna die, so i guess it doesnt matter. And i still think o chul will escape.

[Eogan]

...or at least I think thats what Arkenputtyknife was talking about. I'm still trying to guess what re-parse means. I searched it on google and now I know a reparse point is a type of NTSF file in windows 2000...I'm so confused.

Try looking up "parse". Generally, when a prefix is hyphenated you will only find the root word in the dictionary. I assume you know what the prefix 're-' means.

[im4eversmart]

Just kinda putting it out there... "mano a mano" means "hand to hand" in spanish, and is usually taken as "weaponless" combat. So really, there shouldn't be any tridents OR swords involved. Sorry if anyone posted this already.

[FujinAkari]

Just kinda putting it out there... "mano a mano" means "hand to hand" in spanish, and is usually taken as "weaponless" combat. So really, there shouldn't be any tridents OR swords involved. Sorry if anyone posted this already.

Spanish? Whats that? I've heard of Elvish, Dwarven, and Fey... but... 'Spanish'?

[im4eversmart]

Spanish? Whats that? I've heard of Elvish, Dwarven, and Fey... but... 'Spanish'?

Think of it as an odd dialect of Iberian if you like. After all, as far as I know, Iberia was a myth.

[Trizap]

I love the basilisk joke

:redcloak: and again when I found out about the Basilisk Staring Contest

:xykon: technically the paladin won that one.

Jirix: He never blinked.

[Alaska Fan]

"Action List"? "2:09 PM"? "Daily torture regimen"? Is Redcloak becoming a bureaucrat? "Cover sheets on the TPS reports"? "Cleaned up and healed before his torture"? Or, best of all, "late for tonight's status meeting"? The thing about bureaucrats is they have a lot of trouble thinking outside of the rules. And Redcloak's easy fall for Xykon's promise. Hmmm...

[factotum]

What do you mean, BECOMING a bureaucrat? We're talking the same guy who put the locations of the gates on colour-coded parchments for when he and Xykon were discussing which one to hit next...

[Kd7sov]

Just kinda putting it out there... "mano a mano" means "hand to hand" in spanish, and is usually taken as "weaponless" combat. So really, there shouldn't be any tridents OR swords involved. Sorry if anyone posted this already.

Well, yes, but it's typically taken to mean "one on one". Besides, Xykon's really not a linguistic stickler.

[Pandabear]

LOL! And yay for the Monty Hall reference!

[thedeepdark]

Think of it as an odd dialect of Iberian if you like. After all, as far as I know, Iberia was a myth.

lol! "Iberian dialect" indeed. Yo quiero Doomsday device :smallbiggrin:

[zuzak]

"Mano-a-Mano" may mean "hand to hand" in Spanish, but it actually comes from Latin (the root for "monotheism," "monotone," "monopoly," etc.) meaning "one on one."

Edit: Guess I don't know what I'm talking about after all. Never mind.

I have great respect for O-chul. He's being tortured for fun by Xykon when he isn't being tortured for information he doesn't know by Redcloak. When he dies, unless there's a lot that we don't know about him, he gets to go to eternal paradise. But he stays, dispite the fact that he could easily get himself killed if he wanted to. He doesn't know about the Resistance that he's distracting everyone from, so all he thinks he's doing is killing whatever he can (a hobgoblin here, a dozen dire wallabies there), even if it means enduring torture. He may even be waiting for Xykon to accidently drop a hint so that he can die and relay the message somehow.

I think that Xykon's additude has a lot to do with him being a lich. He has eternal life; if a group of heroes stops him, he can wait another hundred years and continue his plans. He's in no hurry. Redcloak, on the other hand, is mortal and ambitious. He wants to take over the world for revenge and whatever, while Xykon just does because he's bored.

[Sengir]

"Mano-a-Mano" may mean "hand to hand" in Spanish, but it actually comes from Latin (the root for "monotheism," "monotone," "monopoly," etc.) meaning "one on one."

It indeed comes from Latin, but it still means "hand to hand". It is not derived from 'mono', but from 'manus' (the root for "manual") meaning "hand".

[teratorn]

Well, yes, but it's typically taken to mean "one on one". Besides, Xykon's really not a linguistic stickler.

Mano a mano refers to a "corrida" where only two bullfighters perform, trying to outcompete each other, but they don't fight among themselves, but against bulls, and not a single one but generally around three (ok, one at a time). And it has nothing to do with weaponless combat, the bull is not killed with their bare hands.

It's strange that in English it seems to be used mostly to mean single combat.

[Jimorian]

Mano a mano refers to a "corrida" where only two bullfighters perform, trying to outcompete each other, but they don't fight among themselves, but against bulls, and not a single one but generally around three (ok, one at a time). And it has nothing to do with weaponless combat, the bull is not killed with their bare hands.

It's strange that in English it seems to be used mostly to mean single combat.

See my sig quote. :smallcool:

[Sludge-o-matic]

Actually, Mano a Mano does in Spanish refer to "one to one combat" . As an argie, I feel qualified to affirm it.

As someone pointed before, yes, it is also referred to a style of fighting, however is seldom used that way. The most common translation for "mano a mano" is "one to one".

Making a profile Check..I take 10 . Interesting. this guy is from Algarve, Portugal, I guess? (Damn, I should have taken 20 instead) .Is pretty close to Spain, yes, but... here in Argentina (and other countries that speak spanish) "mano a mano" is a single combat (or competition).

(sorry if my english is far from perfect, lads)