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3d10
2008-03-30, 10:43 AM
Ex Aequali

*****

Ex Aequali (our current working title) is an RPG with two goals: to be simple to run and fun to play. At the moment only the basic guidelines of stat generation and rudimentary combat have been finalized, but we would appreciate any general critique of the system, as we want it to be the best it can be.

Ex Aequali operates off our Xd10 system, where a player rolls a number of d10s equal to his character's aptitude rank and selects the best two. Skills are then added to this, giving a range of unmodified results ranging from 2 to 30. Naturally skilled opponents reliably score closer to 20 on the base die, while highly trained opponents have a higher overall average, but a wider range of results.

Aptitude Generation

Ex Aequali has six aptitudes, with an optional seventh for fantasy campaigns. These statistics are Strength, Vitality, Dexterity, Agility, Intelligence, Wisdom, and the optional Magic.

Strength - Raw physical strength. Modifies melee damage, lifting and carrying capacity, and several skills and talents.
Vitality - Inherent toughness and durability. Reduces damage taken, and modifies several skills and talents.
Dexterity - To be determined
Agility - Your natural speed. Modifies Dodge, base speed, and several skills and talents.
Intelligence - To be determined
Wisdom - To be determined
Magic - To be determined

All aptitudes begin at rank 1, and a beginning character receives 24 point to divide between them (26 points if the optional Magic aptitude is being used). No starting character may have an aptitude over 8.

All aptitudes begins at rank 1, and a beginning character receives 24 points to divide between them (26 points if the optional Magic aptitude is used). No character can begin play with an aptitude over 8, and the human maximum is 12. Certain magics may raise this, and certain foes may have higher numbers, but the maximum for any creature is an 18.

Aptitudes control how large a character's dice pot is. We use the term dice pot to separate the mechanic from the more traditional dice pool, as ours operates slightly differently. A player rolls a number of d10 equal to his aptitude rating and selects the best two, resulting in a number between 2 and 20. His skill rank is then added to this number, creating a final result between 3 and 30.

The aptitude ratings for each rank are listed below.

1-3: 2d10
4-5: 3d10
6-7: 4d10
8-9: 5d10
10-11: 6d10
12-13: 7d10
14-15: 8d10
16-17: 9d10
18: 10d10

From now on this roll will be represented by bXd10+Y, where X is your related aptitude rating and Y is the relevant skill rank. For example, a character with a Strength of 6 and a Melee skill of 3 would make melee attacks with b4d10+3, meaning that he rolls 4 dice, takes the best two, and adds three.

Skills

Skills range from a rank of 0 to a rank of 10, 0 being the default.

As only basic combat has been determined at this point in time, the only skills included are those immediately pertaining to such.

Dodge
-Each point in Dodge enables you to better dodge attacks. You roll Agility+Dodge opposed by your opponents Melee or Ranged check. If your Dodge result exceeds their check, you successfully avoid the attack.
Defense
-Each point in Defense adds to your unarmored Defense Rating.
Melee (Longarms, Blades, Clubs, Axes, Piercing, Unarmed)
-Each point in Melee enables you to strike more accurately. You roll Dexterity+Melee or Strength+Melee (dependent on weapon [and still under construction]) opposed by your opponents Dodge check. If your Melee result matches or exceeds their check, you successfully land the attack.
Ranged (Bows, Thrown)
-Each point in Ranged enables you to strike more accurately. You roll Dexterity+Ranged opposed by your opponents Dodge check. If your Ranged result matches or exceeds their check, you successfully land the attack.

Combat

All Ex Aequali characters have 100% hp. This is reduced by attacks, and if this number ever reaches 0% the character is slain.

Basic combat is quite simple. The attacker makes an attack check (Dexterity/Strength+Melee or Dexterity+Ranged) opposed by the defender's Dodge check (Agility+Dodge). If the attacker matches or beats the defender's Dodge check the attack lands.

Damage is calculated directly off of a successful attack roll. The attack adds his strength score and his weapon modifier to his attack roll, and this determines his base damage. The defender then subtracts a number of points of damage from this equal to his Vitality plus his Armor modifier (or his ranks in the Defense skill, if unarmored).

Both weapons and armor range from rank 2 to rank 10.

Example of Combat:

Tysis Madir and Coran Bansar Del'Rayas are locked in combat. Tysis has a 7 Strength, 6 Vitality, 4 Agility, and 4 Dexterity. He also has 2 ranks in Dodge, 4 ranks in Melee (swords), is wielding a Broadsword (rank 8), and wearing Leather armor (rank 2).

Coran has a 4 Strength, 5 Vitality, 7 Agility, and 6 Dexterity. He also has 4 ranks in Dodge, 3 ranks in Melee (swords), is wielding a Longsword (rank 6), and has 5 ranks in Defense.

Who goes first and how has yet to be determined, so for now we will say that Tysis gets the jump on his opponent. He rolls for attack using his 7 Strength and 4 ranks in Melee, so he rolls b4d10+4. Rolling a 2, 5, 7, and 4, he nets a total of 16 (5+7+4 ranks in Melee). Coran attempts to Dodge with b4d10+4 and gets a total of 17, successfully dodging the attempt.

Now Coran attacks, rolling b3d10+3. He gets lucky, rolling 9, 9, and 4, for a total of 21 (9+9+3 ranks in Melee). Tysis attempts to Dodge with his b3d10+2, and only nets a 12. Coran hits.

Using the roll of 21 as base damage, Coran adds 4 from his Strength and 6 from his Longsword, totaling 31 damage. Tysis, however, has leather armor (rank 2) and a Vitality of 6, so he adds these numbers together for a total of 8 and subtracts the resulting value from the damage taken. Tysis takes 23 damage out of 100%, leaving him at 77%.

Weapon and Armor Ratings

Entries in italics are appropriate for a Modern game, while those in plain text are appropriate for any time period from medieval times to modern.

Melee
2-Dagger
4-Shortsword, Club, Handaxe
6-Longsword, Battleaxe, Mace
8-Broadsword, Broadaxe, Heavy Mace
10-Greatsword, Greataxe, Chainsaw

Ranged
2-Thrown Dagger, Dart, Sling, Throwing Knife
4-Hand Crossbow, Thrown Axe, Javelin
6-Crossbow, Spear, Pistol
8-Longbow, Heavy Crossbow, Submachine Gun
10-Assault Rifle
12-Shotgun, Hunting Rifle
14-Sniper Rifle

Armor
2-Reinforced Clothing
4-Leather
6-Heavy Leather, Concealable Body Armor
8-Mail, Breastplate, Bulletproof Vest
10-Full Plate, Riot Gear
12-Military Body Armor


Comments are extremely appreciated. Is what we have written here to simple? To bulky? A really bad idea? Or are we going somewhere with this?

Finally, and most importantly, would you like to see more?

-3d10 Production Staff

Xd10 System and related works ©3d10 Productions

Skjaldbakka
2008-03-31, 05:53 AM
A few points, before I have to clock out and go home.

* This game is very reminiscent of video game RPGs, just in the way it feels. I'm not saying that is good or bad.

* Armor/Vitality subtracts from damage, rather than making you harder to hit/giving more HP.

* This game would suck in PbP, which I think you are familiar with, given your use of this notation: bXd10+Y (that doesn't actually work on these forums, btw, as you can't add to best of inside the roll). That and opposed rolls for attacks also bog down PbP. At least to-hit and damage are the same roll, which I approve of.

* So far, you've completed 1/3 of the difficult steps of system building. You have your task resolution system figured out, and it is not a bad one. Working out 'special powers' aka magic, psionics, supertech, etc is another, and working out equipment is the other.

Just my two point five bits.

Viel Gluck

3d10
2008-03-31, 10:59 AM
* This game is very reminiscent of video game RPGs, just in the way it feels. I'm not saying that is good or bad.

Would it be possible for you to elaborate further? I'm curious as to why this is, and whether or not it should be remedied.


* Armor/Vitality subtracts from damage, rather than making you harder to hit/giving more HP.

While this is true, it does effectively grant you more HP, but in a different fashion. You subtract damage rather than gain HP, allowing us to use a percentage based system for wounding that involves almost no calculation at all.


* This game would suck in PbP, which I think you are familiar with, given your use of this notation: bXd10+Y (that doesn't actually work on these forums, btw, as you can't add to best of inside the roll). That and opposed rolls for attacks also bog down PbP. At least to-hit and damage are the same roll, which I approve of.

This is quite true. A new type of online die-roller would be necessary, and opposed rolls can get awkward. However, as this is primarily a Pen & Paper rather than a Play-by-Post, it should work effectively. Also, nothing stops the Gamemaster from rolling Dodge for his players. In fact, it would be recommended, since then any editing of a post containing a dodge result (which would be possible due to the current online rollers not able to handle this formula) would be impossible.

Thanks for the input!

-3d10

arkanis
2008-03-31, 11:31 AM
Comments:
You have a really cool concept going here, but you have nearly just as many skills as aptitudes. Since your game seems strictly combat-based, there wouldn't be much point adding other skills (thus very much like a video game).

My only concerns are you don't seem to have a Character Creation or Leveling Up structure yet. Those are very basic and key to making a system.

Your weapon/armor ranks are neat, but I think it might be better to separate attack and damage ranks. A greataxe for example would definately have great damage but poor attack rating because it is slow. Also, full plate would reduce a lot of damage because it is strong but also slow the wearer down and penalize their agility.

Suggestions:

TURNS
-Have all combatants roll Agility or Agility + Dodge with highest going first and lowest going last to determine rounds in combat.

DEXTERITY
-Dexterity + Attack Skill = attack roll, afterall "dexterity" means one's hand-eye-coordination and finesse with their hands while Agility implies more acrobatic and swift movement of the whole body (Dodge).

DAMAGE
-Adding one's whole attack roll to damage seems pretty big since that means 3 good rolls could essentially kill anything. I would add only the amount that the attack exceeded the target's dodge to the damage.
For example if Character A attacked with a roll of 14 against Character B who had a dodge of 10, then (4 + weapon damage rank + Character A's Strength - Character B's Vitality - armor damage rank) would be the damage.
This is just to keep battles a little more than 3-5 rounds so that they are slightly more balanced. If you prefer quick to-the-point-on-with-the-roleplay battles, then I'd say leave it as is.

Pronounceable
2008-03-31, 12:54 PM
Nice. Kinda like the one I've been using. I'm interested to see more.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74385)'s the stuff, in case you think you might want to yoink something.

3d10
2008-03-31, 03:40 PM
Comments:
You have a really cool concept going here, but you have nearly just as many skills as aptitudes. Since your game seems strictly combat-based, there wouldn't be much point adding other skills (thus very much like a video game).

It's combat based at the moment, since the combat system was the biggest factor in the system we choose to use, but it will include much more as it develops.



My only concerns are you don't seem to have a Character Creation or Leveling Up structure yet. Those are very basic and key to making a system.

True. This will come after we determine how much of a benefit each increase adds, and then have a basis for the value of increasing each statistic.


Your weapon/armor ranks are neat, but I think it might be better to separate attack and damage ranks. A greataxe for example would definately have great damage but poor attack rating because it is slow. Also, full plate would reduce a lot of damage because it is strong but also slow the wearer down and penalize their agility.

Since weapons have no attack rating, this shouldn't be an issue. Attack bonuses come directly from the relevant skill, as someone who really knows how to use said greataxe will hit with it, since he knows how to predict movement and adjust the swing to hit. And since better armor has a better armor value, it does reduce damage by more.



Suggestions:

TURNS
-Have all combatants roll Agility or Agility + Dodge with highest going first and lowest going last to determine rounds in combat.

DEXTERITY
-Dexterity + Attack Skill = attack roll, afterall "dexterity" means one's hand-eye-coordination and finesse with their hands while Agility implies more acrobatic and swift movement of the whole body (Dodge).


Both good ideas, and actually both already under consideration. The Dexterity to attack may only apply to certain weapons (those that might be finesse-able in traditional D&D), but we'll see.



DAMAGE
-Adding one's whole attack roll to damage seems pretty big since that means 3 good rolls could essentially kill anything. I would add only the amount that the attack exceeded the target's dodge to the damage.
For example if Character A attacked with a roll of 14 against Character B who had a dodge of 10, then (4 + weapon damage rank + Character A's Strength - Character B's Vitality - armor damage rank) would be the damage.
This is just to keep battles a little more than 3-5 rounds so that they are slightly more balanced. If you prefer quick to-the-point-on-with-the-roleplay battles, then I'd say leave it as is.

That is intentional. Most real combat is ended after only a few blows have landed, the majority of the blows being parried or dodged. When a weapon connects, it usually hurts a good deal. Average damage, assuming two equally skilled opponents with equal rated gear is about 16-17, so combat, while deadly, isn't immediately fatal.

Updated: Added rough drafts of weapons and armor

-3d10

__Azrael
2008-03-31, 05:20 PM
I've been working on a similar system for a long time.

Some themes.

I think that Dodge shouldn't be an auttomatic action. There must be a basic dodge value (no roll), and an active dodge action.

This lead us to multiple action. You could develop a multiple action system, which is very simple considering the flexible dice mechanic you're using. Characters may substract 1 dice from his dice pot for every addtional action in the turn, for instance (while always keeping 2 dices).

This always need a lot of testing and chances computing for balancing. In the system I'm creating I finded usefull to give an additional bonus to "full round actions" (a +1 bonus would do that).

Just for aesthetic. Something I find nice working with d10 it's the "0". You may use 0-9 dices instead of 1-10 dices. It's also more intuitive that the worst dice result it's a "0", not a "2".

Best Luck

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-01, 01:42 AM
I'd have to say the percentage HP system, the Vitality/Armor subtracts from damage, and the way your attack and damage is calculated are what make me associate this with video game RPGs.

Something else that occured to me. There isn't anything special in this system. All you have are skills and attributes. Which is kinda . . . bland. You need some special abilities. Here are some things to brainstorm:

How would you stat a wuxia martial artist with this?

How about a classic wizard?

How about a monstrous creature, such as Frankenstein's monster, or a werewolf?

How about Gort?

In terms of using dexterity to hit, I would make that almost universal.

ok- I was going to say that you should just remove dexterity from the equation when attacking with certain weapons designated as 'clumsy', but then you would have no dice, since you roll your stat. hmmm. Perhaps Clumsy weapons just roll 2 dice?


Here is a thought:

Get rid of dodge. Instead, have opposed attack rolls, and whoever rolls higher hits, and the other misses. That way, getting ganged up on sucks exactly as much as it actually does in real combat. I second the notion of having a splitting pools style mechanic to allow multiple actions.

If you use the above suggestion, you should also set a base difficulty for rolls, not just for combat, but in general. 10 would be a good number.

I also second the 0-9 instead of 1-10 idea.

3d10
2008-04-01, 06:31 AM
I'd have to say the percentage HP system, the Vitality/Armor subtracts from damage, and the way your attack and damage is calculated are what make me associate this with video game RPGs.

Fair enough.


Something else that occured to me. There isn't anything special in this system. All you have are skills and attributes. Which is kinda . . . bland. You need some special abilities. Here are some things to brainstorm:

How would you stat a wuxia martial artist with this?

How about a classic wizard?

How about a monstrous creature, such as Frankenstein's monster, or a werewolf?

How about Gort?

These systems are still under construction, but rest assured that they are coming. This thread was mainly to collect ideas for improving the base system so we can figure out how this sort of thing interacts with it.



Get rid of dodge. Instead, have opposed attack rolls, and whoever rolls higher hits, and the other misses. That way, getting ganged up on sucks exactly as much as it actually does in real combat. I second the notion of having a splitting pools style mechanic to allow multiple actions.

While this is nice, sometimes you simply don't want to attack. Also, this requires a special "combat resolution" step at the end of every round, and acts strangely when you're attacking one opponent but surrounded by seven. Maybe each additional person present grants his allies a +1 bonus to the Melee roll...that would mean that being surrounded by four or more people means you're going down pretty fast.



If you use the above suggestion, you should also set a base difficulty for rolls, not just for combat, but in general. 10 would be a good number.

It's actually set around 12, since the average human rolls b3d10 unmodified, which gives an average of 12. 10 would be around average, although representing a slightly easier task. This does NOT apply to combat however, except possibly when it comes to hitting a surprised or paralyzed opponent.



I also second the 0-9 instead of 1-10 idea.

Understood. This may be instituted, since it's gotten a lot of positive feedback, and wouldn't require an intense re-working of the system.

-3d10

arkanis
2008-04-01, 11:21 AM
Fair enough, but if you rank weapons/armor only by damage then what is the incentive to use daggers or wear no armor? Everyone and their uncle would just use a greatsword and wear full-plate since they have no penalties and deal/resist the most damage. Unless you incorporate some accuracy vs. damage or some speed vs. power ratio there is not going to be any balance in the weapons/armors.

You could try making special abilities which work only for specific weapons, but that would take a lot of work and detail and the most powerful abilities would apply to the weakest weapons. Doesn't seem realistic.

What is Intelligence and Wisdom going to be used for? So far, I can't see any use for them in your system. What about Charisma? Is social strategy barred from this game? That'd make more sense if Intelligence and Wisdom weren't present.

If you're going to have more skills later on, you may want to make battle skills a category of their own since they'll be more used in a combat system than non-combat skills.

3d10
2008-04-01, 11:28 AM
Fair enough, but if you rank weapons/armor only by damage then what is the incentive to use daggers or wear no armor? Everyone and their uncle would just use a greatsword and wear full-plate since they have no penalties and deal/resist the most damage. Unless you incorporate some accuracy vs. damage or some speed vs. power ratio there is not going to be any balance in the weapons/armors.

Well, armor will decrease speed and mobility, which may prompt players to invest skills in the Defense Skill, which functions as armor without any penalties, but at the price of other skills.

Weapons will take more thought...



You could try making special abilities which work only for specific weapons, but that would take a lot of work and detail and the most powerful abilities would apply to the weakest weapons. Doesn't seem realistic.

There will be special abilities for various weapons, but not to the exclusion of all else. They will most likely be flavorful, not super-powered.



What is Intelligence and Wisdom going to be used for? So far, I can't see any use for them in your system. What about Charisma? Is social strategy barred from this game? That'd make more sense if Intelligence and Wisdom weren't present.

Intelligence is for skills and general knowledge, while Wisdom is for perception and willpower. Charisma, however, is usually used for magic and social situations, and since we have a stat for magic, it's now only used for social situations. As we want to increase role-playing in that aspect, we felt it was better to remove the stat and have social interactions be based upon role-play rather than roll-play. Does that explain it?



If you're going to have more skills later on, you may want to make battle skills a category of their own since they'll be more used in a combat system than non-combat skills.

Good idea. In fact, an incredibly good idea. This may be used.

-3d10

arkanis
2008-04-01, 09:31 PM
Glad I could help. This looks like a really cool system so I'm going to blast you with questions, suggestions and critiques since I feel this one is worth it. In fact, I like it so much I'd really like to use it once it's done. Sounds like a hell of a lot simpler than d20, yet more fun.

Okay, so Charisma and Magic are the same thing in this game. I think that's a little dissapointing considering there are 4 physical aptitudes and only 3 mental, but it works. You may want to reconsider the name for flavor purposes though. Maybe call it Spirit or Soul? Maybe Essence or Manna? Or maybe even Energy or Chi or Chakras or Ki? Charisma also means "gift" or "talent" or "power" in addition to meaning one's charm and personality and influence, so Charisma is also a good fit. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/charisma

Focusing on Roleplay and not Rollplay by disabling social skills is cool, but it does leave the charismatic fellows at a loss since they can no longer depend on a system and are left at the DM's mercy.

With Weapons and Armor, just make sure to keep them balanced somehow. If a dagger isn't as statistically good as a greatsword or if light armor isn't as statistically good as full-plate, there are going to be balancing problems. You don't want everyone and their uncle wearing and wielding the heaviest thing they can get because the "bigger is better" rule is the only one applying. If you want to grasp a LITTLE reality though, you could make them only slightly statistically better, but more expensive (and make sure gold isn't passed out like candy at Halloween).
Might I make a recomendation?

Possible Balanced Version:
Armor Rank = Bonus to Defense vs. physical attacks and penalty to Dodge and all Athletic skills
Weapon Rank = Bonus to damage with weapon and penalty to attacks made with weapon

Or make the penalties equal half the bonuses and make the items accumulatively increase in cost by 50% each rank they go up and add in just a few exclusive abilities (like Double Strike for light weapons only and Power Strike for heavy weapons only).

3d10
2008-04-01, 10:29 PM
Glad I could help. This looks like a really cool system so I'm going to blast you with questions, suggestions and critiques since I feel this one is worth it. In fact, I like it so much I'd really like to use it once it's done. Sounds like a hell of a lot simpler than d20, yet more fun.

Awesome. :smallbiggrin:

You have made our day. It may be a while, but, even if this thread dies, we'll inform you of the completion of the project.


Okay, so Charisma and Magic are the same thing in this game. I think that's a little dissapointing considering there are 4 physical aptitudes and only 3 mental, but it works. You may want to reconsider the name for flavor purposes though. Maybe call it Spirit or Soul? Maybe Essence or Manna? Or maybe even Energy or Chi or Chakras or Ki? Charisma also means "gift" or "talent" or "power" in addition to meaning one's charm and personality and influence, so Charisma is also a good fit. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/charisma

Hmm...if we use Soul, it can encompass both magic and the force of personality aspect that Charisma used to cover...that's quite a good idea there.


Focusing on Roleplay and not Rollplay by disabling social skills is cool, but it does leave the charismatic fellows at a loss since they can no longer depend on a system and are left at the DM's mercy.

This is the trade-off, but we find it preferable to Diplomacy abuse and failing an important social situation due to a single roll of 1.



Might I make a recomendation?

Possible Balanced Version:
Armor Rank = Bonus to Defense vs. physical attacks and penalty to Dodge and all Athletic skills

I like this, although the penalties must be decreased, since a -2 to Dodge is significantly more crippling than a +2 to damage resistance. How does the following table look?

Armor (Armor Rank/Movement Penalty)
2/-0: Reinforced Clothing
4/-0: Leather
6/-1: Heavy Leather, Concealable Body Armor
8/-1: Mail, Breastplate, Bulletproof Vest
10/-2: Full Plate, Riot Gear
12/-2: Military Body Armor




Weapon Rank = Bonus to damage with weapon and penalty to attacks made with weapon

Or make the penalties equal half the bonuses and make the items accumulatively increase in cost by 50% each rank they go up and add in just a few exclusive abilities (like Double Strike for light weapons only and Power Strike for heavy weapons only).

While I would love to institute this, and actually tried running it, it doesn't quite work. Since hitting and damage are based on the same roll, a penalty to attacks reduces damage by the same amount, making higher damage weapons only succeed in being less accurate. Bonuses to smaller weapons accomplishes the same thing, only in reverse. Possibly weapon speeds applied to initiative could resolve this balance issue, but I'm not sure that would do anything but slow combat down. We'll think on it a bit and see what we can come up with.

Also, for what it's worth, base speed is currently 20ft, plus an additional 5ft for every 2 ranks in Agility (up to the human maximum of 50ft at Agility 12).

-3d10

arkanis
2008-04-01, 11:11 PM
Sweet.

Cool.

Makes sense.

Hmmm, accuracy assists damage. Hmm, then speed is the only option.

Could speed add a bonus to number of attacks? Light weapons allow 3 attacks per round, medium 2, and heavy only 1? Or something to that effect.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-01, 11:23 PM
Maybe each additional person present grants his allies a +1 bonus to the Melee roll...that would mean that being surrounded by four or more people means you're going down pretty fast.

Hmm. . . you ever been surrounded by 4 or more people? You do, in fact, tend to go down pretty fast.

3d10
2008-04-02, 07:43 AM
Hmm. . . you ever been surrounded by 4 or more people? You do, in fact, tend to go down pretty fast.

That was the idea, although I see how it could have been misinterpreted as hesitation.


Could speed add a bonus to number of attacks? Light weapons allow 3 attacks per round, medium 2, and heavy only 1? Or something to that effect.

Interesting idea there. In fact, that may work. If each extra attack is at a penalty (or fewer dice), you'd need to be skilled to pull it off well, but the accuracy trade-off might be worth the extra damage.

EDIT: I just ran a few tests, revealing that the damage difference between a dagger and a greatsword is, in equally skilled hands, only 6%. Extra attacks makes the dagger a far superior choice, as damage not based upon the weapon is significantly higher. This leads me to think that a simple price and weight differential might be sufficient to balance the problem.

-3d10

arkanis
2008-04-02, 02:06 PM
Only 6% damage difference? That just doesn't seem right. In reality one would obviously think a 9 lb. greatsword being swung with two hands would do more damage than a dingy 1 lb. dagger but the advantage to a dagger is its speed, finesse, and accuracy more than its physical size and force. Oh well, no need to get too detailed.

However, if you do decide to use speed, here are some brainstormed ideas:
With extra attacks you could make it possible only based on the character's speed. A character can make a number of attacks with a weapon equal to their SPEED - WEAPON RANK (minimum 1) at an accumulative penalty per additional attack.

Accumulative -1 rising penalty to all attacks per additional attack.
One attack: No change
Two attacks: -1/-2
Three attacks: -2/-3/-4
Four attacks: -3/-4/-5/-6

OR

Accumulative -2 penalty to each additional attack.
One attack: No change
Two attacks: -2/-2
Three attacks: -4/-4/-4
Four attacks: -6/-6/-6/-6

Whichever you feel would be more fair/appropriate.

3d10
2008-04-02, 02:34 PM
Only 6% damage difference? That just doesn't seem right. In reality one would obviously think a 9 lb. greatsword being swung with two hands would do more damage than a dingy 1 lb. dagger but the advantage to a dagger is its speed, finesse, and accuracy more than its physical size and force. Oh well, no need to get too detailed.

True...but a highly skilled man with a dagger can slit your throat or hit you in the temple with amazing accuracy, which a highly skilled man with a greatsword hits in less vital areas, but still deals a lot of damage. It makes all weapons styles viable (although it is subject to change if we find it necessary).



However, if you do decide to use speed, here are some brainstormed ideas:
With extra attacks you could make it possible only based on the character's speed. A character can make a number of attacks with a weapon equal to their SPEED - WEAPON RANK (minimum 1) at an accumulative penalty per additional attack.

Accumulative -1 rising penalty to all attacks per additional attack.
One attack: No change
Two attacks: -1/-2
Three attacks: -2/-3/-4
Four attacks: -3/-4/-5/-6

OR

Accumulative -2 penalty to each additional attack.
One attack: No change
Two attacks: -2/-2
Three attacks: -4/-4/-4
Four attacks: -6/-6/-6/-6

Whichever you feel would be more fair/appropriate.

Extra attacks...an interesting situation, due to the fact that about 5 blows can end a combat. Maybe a maximum of two blows, but I don't think more would balance well. We'll see.

arkanis
2008-04-02, 10:25 PM
Meh. The 6% difference is okay I suppose. It's probably better too considering it won't further complicate the system. The multiple attacks was just an option. I forgot this system is a 2-3 shot fight before everything's over. I do sort of feel bad for the tough-type characters who really get boned by a system that kills everyone quick. The evasive characters really get an edge. It's the exact opposite problem 3.5 D&D has (with lots of hit points for everyone but AC always being lower than attack bonuses).

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-02, 10:33 PM
I would recommend using Rate. I'm not sure if this is what you are going for already, but if you can split your pool to make multiple attacks/rnd, give weapons a maximum number of possible attacks/rnd (Rate).

3d10
2008-04-04, 01:39 PM
Alright. Sorry about the delay (several interferences keeping my co-creators and I from developing anything).

We've got a rudimentary movement system down, and may have created a multiple attack system that isn't overly imbalanced, due to the heavy penalties it creates.

Also, to address arkanis' concern: Tough fighters will get the ability to select talents that grant them the ability to survive far longer. Don't worry on that account.

Anyway, on to the rules.

MOVEMENT/ACTIONS

Base Speed: 20ft + 5ft/2 ranks in Agility

Movement is mapped on a horizontally aligned Hex Grid, with each hex being 5ft.

Difficult Terrain:
-Normal: Costs 1 movement square to pass through.
-Impeded: Costs 2 movement squares to pass through. (A successful Agility check may allow this to be ignored)
-Heavily Impeded: Costs 3 movement squares to pass through. (A successful Agility check may allow this to be reduced to 2 squares)
-Impassable: Cannot move through…may be able to move over, under, or around

1 combat round = 5 seconds
12 rounds to a minute

In 1 round:
Move three times your movement speed, and vulnerable
Move twice your movement speed
Move your speed and take a simple action (such as a single attack)
Move ˝ your speed (rounded down) and take a basic action (such as multiple attacks)
5ft step and take a complex action (complex actions are yet to be determined)


Multiple attacks: -2 on first attack, -4 on second attack, -6 on third attack (meaning that even making two attacks, while increasing your damage, plays merry havoc with your chances to hit an equally skilled opponent)

Surrounding: +1 to Melee rolls for each ally adjacent to your target.

Vulnerable: Similar to D&D Attacks of Opportunity. When Vulnerable, every opponent who you come within melee range of gets an attack against you.


Opinions?

-3d10

Yakk
2008-04-04, 02:11 PM
Why have a stat that generates a die count as a secondary effect -- why not just a die count?

The "roll many dice, use 2" mechanic is interesting. Running with that and developing it further might be a good idea. It is more interesting than "a split between aptitude and training" mechanic you attached to it.

Have you graphed the probabilities and distributions? How good is a die vs a +1/-1 bonus?

What feel are you aiming for?

3d10
2008-04-04, 02:25 PM
Why have a stat that generates a die count as a secondary effect -- why not just a die count?

Because the stat itself is used for calculating damage, damage resistance, speed, and other such things.


The "roll many dice, use 2" mechanic is interesting. Running with that and developing it further might be a good idea. It is more interesting than "a split between aptitude and training" mechanic you attached to it.

While true, the reason we opted for a combined mechanic is that the "best of" system caps far to close to the maximum to soon. Rolling 8d10 and taking the best two gives us a result that is FAR to high, and most dicepool games get 8 dice fairly easily.



Have you graphed the probabilities and distributions? How good is a die vs a +1/-1 bonus?

Early on extra dice are better, but with the diminishing returns granted by the "best of" system skill ranks become better bets late game. And since I haven't yet found a calculator program capable of determining all the probabilities, we don't have a probability curve mapped out yet. We do, however, have average results.


What feel are you aiming for?

Something fairly simple to run that can be adapted to a number of genres.

-3d10

arkanis
2008-04-04, 03:06 PM
Alright. Sorry about the delay (several interferences keeping my co-creators and I from developing anything).
Hope its nothing serious.


We've got a rudimentary movement system down, and may have created a multiple attack system that isn't overly imbalanced, due to the heavy penalties it creates.

Also, to address arkanis' concern: Tough fighters will get the ability to select talents that grant them the ability to survive far longer. Don't worry on that account.
Okay, so at this point you plan on balancing everything by making special abilities. Sounds good. Are these special abilities going to be bought with earned XP or gained by level ups? Or both? And is there going to be a class system or is it going to be free-style buy for abilities? Forgive all the questions, they're half-suggestions too.




MOVEMENT/ACTIONS

Base Speed: 20ft + 5ft/2 ranks in Agility

Movement is mapped on a horizontally aligned Hex Grid, with each hex being 5ft.

Difficult Terrain:
-Normal: Costs 1 movement square to pass through.
-Impeded: Costs 2 movement squares to pass through. (A successful Agility check may allow this to be ignored)
-Heavily Impeded: Costs 3 movement squares to pass through. (A successful Agility check may allow this to be reduced to 2 squares)
-Impassable: Cannot move through…may be able to move over, under, or around

1 combat round = 5 seconds
12 rounds to a minute

In 1 round:
Move three times your movement speed, and vulnerable
Move twice your movement speed
Move your speed and take a simple action (such as a single attack)
Move ˝ your speed (rounded down) and take a basic action (such as multiple attacks)
5ft step and take a complex action (complex actions are yet to be determined)

Multiple attacks: -2 on first attack, -4 on second attack, -6 on third attack (meaning that even making two attacks, while increasing your damage, plays merry havoc with your chances to hit an equally skilled opponent)

Surrounding: +1 to Melee rolls for each ally adjacent to your target.

Vulnerable: Similar to D&D Attacks of Opportunity. When Vulnerable, every opponent who you come within melee range of gets an attack against you.

Difficult Terrain: Sounds good, except what if the impeding thing is an enemy? Or appendage of a much larger enemy?

Movement Speed: Looks good. This means that nothing can get slower than 20 feet without racial/size penalties.

Multiple Attacks: You can make a maximum number of attacks equal to...?
Agility - Weapon rank (minimum 1)?

Surrounding: Is this bonus accumulative? If 3 buddies surround one target do each of them get a +3? Would this accrue also as a penalty to ranged attackers trying to avoid hitting their own allies in melee?

Vulnerable: Nice.

3d10
2008-04-04, 03:25 PM
Hope its nothing serious.

Nope, not at all. But thanks anyway!



Okay, so at this point you plan on balancing everything by making special abilities. Sounds good. Are these special abilities going to be bought with earned XP or gained by level ups? Or both? And is there going to be a class system or is it going to be free-style buy for abilities? Forgive all the questions, they're half-suggestions too.

Free-style buy for abilities, and more are purchased through earned XP. This is subject to change, but at the moment we have no levels (and I don't expect us to ever have them), so buying abilities it is.





Difficult Terrain: Sounds good, except what if the impeding thing is an enemy? Or appendage of a much larger enemy?

We haven't dealt with sizes yet, so that's undetermined. There is no moving through an enemy hex without using some sort of special move.


Multiple Attacks: You can make a maximum number of attacks equal to...?
Agility - Weapon rank (minimum 1)?

Hmmm...that system might work quite well. However, since the maximum number of practical attacks is 3 (and even that only against far weaker opponents), weapons might be set so that 2-4 have three attacks and 6+ have two.



Surrounding: Is this bonus accumulative? If 3 buddies surround one target do each of them get a +3? Would this accrue also as a penalty to ranged attackers trying to avoid hitting their own allies in melee?

Yes, it is cumulative (TIP: Don't get surrounded. EVER!). And the penalty to ranged attacks is quite a good idea. We may steal that one.

-3d10

arkanis
2008-04-04, 04:04 PM
Steal away. I like this system and want to see it succeed. I'd actually like to help you guys in your project however I can.

As for moving through enemy squares, I'd just say do an opposed Agility roll between the enemy and character. If the character wins, they can move through the square but are vulnerable to that enemy whilst doing so. If the character fails they are stopped (losing the rest of their movement) and left vulnerable.