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peloriansun
2008-03-30, 07:34 PM
I got called D&D nazi today. Apperently I rushed people who are late to games, insisit we start on time and refused to acomadte everybody's whims. I'm sad now:smallfrown:

shadow_archmagi
2008-03-30, 07:36 PM
I don't know you or your party, so I'm in no place to judge.

My games have never started late. In fact, we've started one hour early just about every single time.

peloriansun
2008-03-30, 07:39 PM
I thought I was a fair and likable DM, turns out I'm an A-- hole. Who knew:smallfrown:

Primal Fury
2008-03-30, 07:42 PM
hm, well could you elaborate a little more? i'm not gettin a whole lot from what you're sayin here. what do you mean by whims?

1dominator
2008-03-30, 07:43 PM
Don't deceive yourself. You are not an anything-Nazi for demanding punctunality (spelling?), and refusing to put up with EVERYTHING the players want. If you did do everything your players demanded, THEN you would be a bad DM.
-Dom

Zincorium
2008-03-30, 07:44 PM
Pelorian, here's what matters:

If people (including you) are having fun, you're a good DM.

If they aren't, you need to change something until they are having fun.

Anything else is just a subset or focal point for the above truths. If insisting on starting the game on time is preventing the game itself from being fun, there is a problem, and it's not as simple as 'other people are late', and if you limit the possibilities to only that, it won't ever be solved.

'Refusing to accommodate everyone's whims' covers a lot of possible territory, but it's a perception, and the perception of other people may differ from your own. Look deeper and talk to people about it.

Edit
@1Dominator:
Giving your players the game they want to play, the one they thought they were signing up for, does not automatically make someone a bad DM.

IF the 'whims' (not my choice of words in any case) of the players are silly and pedantic, you need to talk to them about it and find out if the game they want to play in is one you want to run, and, if not, maybe you should find a different group to DM for.

The 'DM is god' mentality may be warm and fuzzy like a security blanket, but DMs are human, we make mistakes, we have misconceptions, and our happiness is certainly not a bigger priority at the gaming table. Dming is, in the end, a social responsibility as well as a creative endeavor.

peloriansun
2008-03-30, 07:46 PM
I've been the main Dm for our group since we started about three years ago. Apperently in the last three months I've been impatient with people who lose there character sheets, I've been "unfair" in banning monster classes, and "Nerfing" a true necromancer by not letting him animate everything dead in a zombie, skeleton, or other undead

streakster
2008-03-30, 07:52 PM
You know, unless you're actually brutally slaughtering thousands of people, I don't think you qualify.

I hate it when people call others Nazis.

On topic, remind them that it's your game. If you lose your sheet, how can you play? Slows the game down for all. Monster classes are A) annoying and B) your choice. You decide what gets played and what doesn't. And if I understood you, you Necromancer feels he should be able to ignore the undead control limit. Tell him no way. Besides, he's a TN? He's already nerfed himself.

peloriansun
2008-03-30, 07:55 PM
Thanks guys, the world seems vastly less sucky now.:smallsmile:

Prometheus
2008-03-30, 07:56 PM
Like Zincorium said, they should be having fun.

I've personally had experiences with groups I've let run to lax. The problem is, if people take so long getting to D&D and don't focus when they are there, then there isn't any D&D really at all. I've never tried rushing people, so I can't speak for that, but I have tried three different solutions:
1) Talk to them about next time. Let them know they hold everyone else up when they aren't there, and that next time you expect better. There's nothing that can be done about what already happened. This will depend on how your group takes it.
2) Run without them. If most everybody is ready to go, you can go ahead and start without them. If they miss something fun and cool, they have to be satisfied with the descriptions of others, and if they really want to play, they'll be on time next time. Some people will always be delinquent, but at least the others still get to play.
3) Hold their books, character sheets, and dice. They can't forget them. They however, still have to get there, so it doesn't help much.

As for house rules, try to incorporate their complaints without compromising their goals. Perhaps the necromancer's corpses decay over time, have a chance of resisting control, or attract unwanted attention from baddies that counteracts them. Whatever your solution to the problem is, there are probably more, and some of them might be more palatable.

Primal Fury
2008-03-30, 07:57 PM
bein impatient with someone whos lost their character sheet is nothin to get bent out of shape about. heck the players be should too! a lost character sheet means lost time while trying to do something, which in turn slows everybody down. and as far as monster classes go, no one wants a frikkin minatour sorcerer runnin around, NOBODY. and not everything should be animated anyway, sure undead gnolls and orcs are cool, but why a troll, or an ogre? just examples.
theres nothin wrong with bein kind of strict. wanna know what happens when you too leniant? a friggin werebat paladin, thats what.:smallannoyed:

EDIT: and sorry for any repeated comments. slow a-- piece of garbage.

1dominator
2008-03-30, 08:00 PM
Edit
@1Dominator:
Giving your players the game they want to play, the one they thought they were signing up for, does not automatically make someone a bad DM.


I think there may have been a misunderstanding. What i meant by what i said was this, sometimes when I DM, some of my players start demanding things that would harm the other players, make their characters dominate the game and in other ways make things unfun for everyone except them. This is what I meant when I said obeying the players every whim. I say, if its reasonable, then try to incorporate it into the campaign to make it more realistic feeling. Let the players strive for goals. For example, a fighter in your group is looking for his lost family heirloom, incorporate this into the story, and in time when it wont unbalance the campaign give him a chance at getting it.
-Dom

Zincorium
2008-03-30, 08:01 PM
Alright, now we have specific problems to suggest solutions for. The best solutions are ones that you, acting on your own, can implement.

1. Missing character sheets: Yeah, this is annoying, but as the problem has been recurrent, yelling isn't working.

Other solutions include having a photo- or hand- copied character sheet from each person in the DM's possession. This also helps you write adventures as you can be sure, with a moments glance, what the players have available.

2. Monster classes are optional. The problem with them has nothing to do with power level (they're basically just the monster with LA and HD spread out over class levels) but with social interaction. You can't just walk into town with a greater demon and a horde of the walking dead and pursue a normal game. That's the direction you should take, if you haven't already.

Worst case scenario, if they just won't listen and are holding up the game with their objections, let one person (preferably one of the more mature players) play one of the more reasonable ones and make it clear that IF it works out, you may allow others on a case-by-case basis. Pay attention to whether it does or not, don't let your inherent bias color things.

3. Is he attempting to turn strange things into zombies (within the rules for making them)? Dragons and such? Make him actually describe how he's handling these things when in town and in other sensitive situations. Leaving them just outside town is a good way to get other groups of adventurers called in to deal with the horde of undead and it's creator.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-30, 08:46 PM
But did you make the trains run on time!?

Yahzi
2008-03-31, 12:07 AM
Apperently in the last three months I've been impatient with people who lose there character sheets, I've been "unfair" in banning monster classes, and "Nerfing" a true necromancer by not letting him animate everything dead in a zombie, skeleton, or other undead
In the adventure I am about to start, the PCs character creation process consists of picking a name, a gender, and an alignment. They start as 0th level human peasants with stats of 8 and 1 skill point in Profession: Farmer.

All but the 3.0 Core classes are banned, and Monk is out too.

On the other hand, I totally agree with your players when it comes to the Necromancer. How could you be so cruel?

:smallbiggrin:

Zeful
2008-03-31, 12:30 AM
I'd say that you should be conscious of their complaints. Listen to them a little and make a reasonable attempt to change things. If it's not reasonable than tough.

But take heart, apparently I'm a much worse DM than you because I'm heavy handed in dispensing order according to this guy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15390097&postcount=26).

I hope the explanation of my "failure" makes you feel better about your skills.

Ominous
2008-03-31, 01:07 AM
You're not a bad DM. If your players continue calling you a D&D nazi, stop DMing and become a player in your group. If they don't want to play by your rules, stop being the referee.

Dode
2008-03-31, 01:09 AM
But take heart, apparently I'm a much worse DM than you because I'm heavy handed in dispensing order according to this guy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15390097&postcount=26). Hahaha, Wizards forums.

Ward.
2008-03-31, 01:11 AM
Perhaps try to incoporate some of their more outlandish requests into the game, such as the hordes of undead player.
Ciruculate rumours in the taverns they visit of an ancient wizard that ruled deep in a forest near the town, and about his amulet that gave him the power to rule a vast armie of undead minions before his defeat.

Obviously you'd have to rule 0 an amulet for him that'd do some of what he wanted (within reason) and if the party decides they don't feel like going on a side quest, your off the hook :smallsmile:

Dode
2008-03-31, 01:16 AM
Oh yeah, and ask them to e-mail you a backup of their character sheets

banjo1985
2008-03-31, 04:16 AM
Oh yeah, and ask them to e-mail you a backup of their character sheets

Or keep the character sheets yourself at the end of each session, as our game group does. They can't lose them if you have them! :smallbiggrin:

Cheesegear
2008-03-31, 04:27 AM
stop DMing and become a player in your group. If they don't want to play by your rules, stop being the referee.

Agreed. In my gaming group, I'm the only reasonable DM (that is, the players find me - mostly - fair and I run a good campaign), any time one of the players get into a semi-serious argument with me, I just put down my pen/pencil, I give them the DMG/whatever I'm using to run my campaign, and I just say
"Fine, you DM."

The other players then look at the miscreant and shake their heads and are like
"Nononononononono."

Although, one day that's not going to work.

AslanCross
2008-03-31, 04:54 AM
Or keep the character sheets yourself at the end of each session, as our game group does. They can't lose them if you have them! :smallbiggrin:

Yep, this is what I do as well. It also prevents them from changing the sheets whenever they want to.

I'm pretty tough when it comes to people coming to my games as well, though I do my best to understand since they usually have very good reasons for not coming. But yeah, I think "D&D Nazi" is a little extreme.

Premier
2008-03-31, 06:23 AM
It seems to me that as far as actions and decisions go, you've been in the right. However - and there's no way of telling for sure, since none of us are present at your game -, you might be going about things in a way that breeds resentment. I mean, if I got feedback like that, I might think about it for a while and consider that I might have been grating, rude or otherwise unpleasant in the way I was going about my decisions. The delivery matters as much as the content.

shadow_archmagi
2008-03-31, 06:25 AM
Agreed. In my gaming group, I'm the only reasonable DM (that is, the players find me - mostly - fair and I run a good campaign), any time one of the players get into a semi-serious argument with me, I just put down my pen/pencil, I give them the DMG/whatever I'm using to run my campaign, and I just say
"Fine, you DM."

The other players then look at the miscreant and shake their heads and are like
"Nononononononono."

Although, one day that's not going to work.

In my game, they accepted. Now I've got this wonderful artificer going, and the new DM is praying for the day I'm willing to take it back, I can tell.

TheThan
2008-03-31, 12:34 PM
These really don’t seem like they are that big a deal, you really shouldn’t let yourself get bent out of shape over it.

I’ve dealt with a few of these. I’ve had to deal with Two no shows for about 3 or 4 weeks now. We even called them up, one guy (lives about two blocks down the street from where we were). He said he’d be over in about half an hour. Well he never showed. The other one out right said he didn’t want to drive over (lives quite a bit further so its kinda understandable, but he has to drive into town the day before (Friday) and he’s free to crash at any of our houses for a night or two, he knows this too). So really someone that’s a little late is not that big a deal (unless you’re under time constraints).


About the character sheets well, I personally just collect them from everyone. That way I refer to them when I make adventurers, and so they don’t get lost.

About the classes, you should be fairly accommodating but still if something like the monster classes ruins the Verisimilitude of the world then you have the right to veto it.

I have a player that’s playing a druid/ranger. He loves the great axe and chose to use it. But now he’s getting combat style for his ranger levels, and he’s disappointed with not getting anything for a two hander. So we talked it over and I homebrewed one for him. It was a reasonable request. Another player was playing a monk, but he decided he didn’t like it and asked if he could roll up a fighter instead. Since the party really did need a high AC, high HP tank, I decided to let him do it. it wasn’t that big a deal, besides it makes it easier for me to hand out loot. these were all requests that i was ok with going along with.

GammaPaladin
2008-03-31, 12:47 PM
Solution to players being on time: Food served at X time, and game starts at Y time, where Y is one hour later than X.

Never met a gamer who would risk missing the food.

Basically though, just tell your players to arrive anytime after 6, or whatever, and that the game will start at 7 (Or one hour after whatever time you said to arrive after), or earlier if everyone arrives earlier, but no later than 7. Since arriving earlier = more time to play, most people will show up early, and the game can start earlier. And if anyone is later than the deadline, they can't really complain, because there was a whole hour window where they could have shown up and been on time.

But seriously, food seems to work well.