TPKs happen

[vanyell]

I recently came across a situation I have not had to deal with yet as a DM. usually, I balance my encounters pretty well, so that if someone dies, there's usually at least one person to "fill the new guy in" so the adventure can go ahead, without totally breaking immersion.

Today, I was not that lucky. a monster in a pre-made mod just ripped apart the whole party. I'd like to continue on with the game, because everyone's having fun, but I am having some problems figuring out a realistic way to send them back out on the quest.

how would you guys go about this, so it does not feel artificial, so we can get back to the game.

[Tiki Snakes]

Have them wake up on an alternate plane, (not their expected afterlives), and become indebted to a 'really helpful' Extraplanar entity, in exchange for them being sent back.

Mention no hooks, or anything. Utterly charitable and altruistic.

It'll freak them the hell out, especially depending on how tentacular the fellow may be, or what have you.
Then pick back up on that as a hook for the next adventure, in some way?

[Zincorium]

Was there an NPC with them, even so much as a hireling waiting outside? Bam, instant plothook, fairly believable. Some guy knows that a bunch of adventurers, probably with some shiney magic items, went into this cave and never came out. Coincidentally, the hireling stopped getting paid and is willing to sell the location to anyone who shows an interest.

If that's not available, and time isn't particularly of the essence, the way I'd do it is pad the timeline a bit, let the former adventurer's quest become the kind of thing that gets told around the inn fire when the nights are long and cold. Maybe have one of the characters be the younger brother/sister/cousin of one of the original PCs, now grown up and on a personal quest to find the previous character, if only for a proper burial, and has cajoled the rest into joining them.

[Xefas]

The most important thing to keep in mind here is to not make them feel too invulnerable. If they get to the afterlife and you just have some god say "You are the chosen ones of such-n-such destiny. Your quest cannot end here, for the good of all the multiverse. Do X, Y, and Z, and I will return you to your bodies".

The message that sends is "Well, you can frick up as much as you, because you have to and will always win in the end".

Obviously the PCs *do* have to win, and they *do* have to come back, or else the campaign would end and the point would be moot, but you don't want to emphasize this. Make it seem like their guile and quick decision making allowed them to come back from the dead.

For instance, just as they're being 'processed' to decide which afterlife they go to, some unimaginable horror from beyond the known planes shows up and starts devouring people's immortal souls. If they help defeat the monster, then they'll still be dead, but if they instead let the people suffer and slip through the creature's gaping hole in reality, they can find some sort of path back to the living world.

If they're good-aligned, it makes it seem like they had to sacrifice something to come back to life. All those people suffered, but it was for the greater good. If they're evil-aligned, it makes it seem like they were doing the cruel, smart, devilishly clever thing. They beat the system and bullocks to all those posh gods who think they can keep you down.

[Lapak]

Was there an NPC with them, even so much as a hireling waiting outside? Bam, instant plothook, fairly believable. Some guy knows that a bunch of adventurers, probably with some shiney magic items, went into this cave and never came out. Coincidentally, the hireling stopped getting paid and is willing to sell the location to anyone who shows an interest.This. We had one campaign start with two consecutive TPKs, and it worked awfully well as a plot device. One character fled the first wipeout and retired, giving dire warnings about the situation to anyone who would listen. The second party took up on the trail of the first - their advance knowledge (from the survivor) didn't save them, but the immediate failure and doom was pretty funny at that point as we weren't invested in them yet.

The THIRD party, though, that one made some progress!

[Benejeseret]

Go back to much earlier in their lives. They play years earlier, knowing (metagame) that they will die three years from now.

The timeline is yours to play with.

Bene

[holywhippet]

If there is a local authority figure in the area (lord, baron etc.) arrange for one of his patrols to stumble across the defeated party.

Maybe the monster had a master controlling it, he might step in and bind them into a geas for his own purposes.

Some other third party was watching your fight and stepped in to kill the monster. Seeing potential use in your characters they have them healed/raised.

[Kol Korran]

first of all, supply us with a bit more info about the adventure and/or campaign (their alignements, major connections, the basic premise of the adventure, any constraints or limitations), and maybe we'll be able to give you better suggestions. but, as to general ones:

1) if the party made a realy good impression with some temple/ organization/ noble/ guild, and they are known to be missing ("shouldn't they have been back by now? i have a bad feeling...") then have the temple/lord quickly hire a band of merceneries (new PCs), with the sole purpose of finding out what happened, bring news if the former party is ok, the bodies if not.
now, you can go several ways about this (also depending on the state of the bodies)- the merceneries eventually find the bodies, all are sad, and then the merceneris take their place (whether for gold, curiousity, or whatever other motive you and your players agree upon). or, the merceneries eventually find the bodies, bring them back, and the benefactor pays for raise dead spells. the original party then resumes the work, perhaps even paying some of their "rescue" fee to the mercenery band. the benefactor may call upon the players later of course... or, the merceneries eventually find ripped up/ torn to pieces bodies, and decide to venture on (perhaps the benefactor said something like "and if they parished, gods help us, we'd realy appreciate you finishing their works. a fair compensation of course awaits".
you have two problems you must face:
- the merceneries may try and loot the former characters equipment and stuff. if they build the characters by WBL, this may ruin the balance. you can however enable them to begin just with sufficient equipment to reach the slain party... another solution would be to ensure most of the slain's equipment is gone (some monster took it and went? lame, but possible. or maybe a mimic ate it? even more lame, but still... rust monsters can chew on most things, while rats hide all kind of other stuff in their holes. but beware of the persistent greedy player).
- keeping the lair/ dungeon/ ruin/ adventure site realistic and alive. if the place features intelligent creatures, then place traps, new hirelings and such where the party has been. alter defensive tactics. for unintelligent creatures, it realy all depends on the passed time (but i assume it wasn't too much)- maybe a new mate? maybe soem monster was driven off and a new one (logical one) takes it's place? if the merceneries do begin with a far reduced loot, have the slain party's equipment divided around hoards of different monsters (treasure hunt!). if the equipment is attached to various body parts depends on route you chose to take..
the idea is to keep the place familiar, but with a few surprises. it adds realism to the place, so it doesn't seem frozen, just waiting for adveturers.

2) for a tottaly different outlook on things, and a fresh new twist, try this: the party was tracked without it's knowing by some people whom they realy pissed off on a former minor adventure (or a major one, never matter). these could be someone who's plans they ruined, the family members of people or humanoids they have slain, allies to people who were defeated by the players and so on. they tracked the party to the edge of the adventure site (either bya PC tracker, or some NPC one who will shortly depart/ have a grisly ending). now they enter, ready to take their revenege only to find it taken away from them by fate! at first they are angry, but they decide to investigate further. using clues they found on the bodies and the place itself, until they have a motive of their own to continue in your campaign route.
now, this may seem problematic at first, but it realy isn't- the characters don't need to have belonged to some evil dark scheme. they can even have the same alignement, but just very different objectives (at least at first). explain the idea to the group as you're making characters, and ask them to add possible motives for continuing on this quest. (here's an example: "my clan always worshiped <name-of-cult-the-party-destroyed> when i returned and saw the slaughter, i became angry, wanting to avenge. but i also became doubtfull- why didn't our god protect us? and why did they murder our people? i must find out!" very, very simple, but i'm sure you guys could do better)
the benefit of this idea is to add some mroe realism to the group, give it a bit of a shake down, add consequences to PCs action, and give a very unqiue motivation and feel to the new group. and then of course, in a few more adventures, you'll have every reason to send some more "avengers" after the party, for what they did in the meantime! that could be a fun encounter/ adventure, if the players get the Irony...
also, it's a chance to play some less played races and classes, if you're group is interested.

3) a somewhat boring, but simple solution: if completing the quest the party went on is importnet for someone else (organizations and such), then they hire a group of adventurers entirely indipendently. they arrive at the site, and carry on. i'd still suggest to take care of the problems i mentioned on the first solution, though taking care ot the loot would be easier now- a beastial monster just eat the corpse and buries the rest, perhaps at the bottom of a lake. the new adventurers should need to find a highly justifiable excuse starting to search every nook and cranny for their previous equipment. they don't even know it exists after all do they?

i strongyl object to the "outsider whisks the party out and revives them, asking for a debt later" strategy that was suggested formerly on this thread. it seems forced, out of place, and extremley, extremley unlikely... most players won't be freaked out, they'll just think "what? the DM could only come up with THIS? oh man..."

lastly- if you tell us a bit more about the situation, perhaps we could help better.

[vanyell]

thanks for the feedback.
I like a lot of what I'm hearing

basically it went like this. the town watch sent a few guards into a tomb where there had been some raids coming from. needless to say, they did not come back. so the watch sent in somebody with a little more firepower behind them. they found proof of a grave robber/cult deal, and when investigating what seemed to be a good lead, that was a bit out of the way (so no just wandering into it) they got mauled by essentially a blind dog with DR and fast healing and a breath weapon. killed there.

other then just saying

"you're another group of adventurers, who happen to be the same level as the other ones, so we're just going to send more bodies into the tomb"

I'm pretty strapped for ideas, that could get the party to where they could start playing again (even with other characters) without making it sound like I'm just tossing them in where they left off

[Kol Korran]

one more idea that i jsut remmebered, and could work splendidlywell, but means you'll have to do some work:

4) the party failed, pure and simple. due to their failure, something realy bad happens, but not utterly catasthrophic: most of the village is wiped out, the main villain gains a new type of undead, the enemy's siege succeeded and now the horde is pouring in, the great mother tree has been cut, and many elves are fleeing, and so on...
NOW, have the new party come in, and try to handle the new situation, to fix some (but not all) of the mess. the campaign continues after some time have passed, the former heroes are either mourned, glorified, blamed or simply forgotten. as things get worse these new PCs get entangled in the mess, trying to avert catastrophe.



the advantages are as follows:
- there are consequences to the PCs actions, and these can be seen in the world! this is always importent to players, and many prefer this to some sort of rescue. make the effects real, make them deal with the "shock waves" for 2-3 adventures at least, as they restore some balance to the setting, and before forging on in the campaign. most players would love this, and feel in the center of events- both creating them and dealing with them! (if you want an example or reprecautions, just look at OOTS. true- only Roy died, but everyone suffers the failure)
make sure the players know (preferably in game, but could be out of game) that their failure did give some actual advantage to the BBEG/ forces aligned against them- a higher level, new minions, more minions, less allies to the PCs, perhaps less resources (the great magic institute/ the temple of/ the guild of artificers was destroyed). the new situation could also impose new limitations for character creation, if you wish (beware of this option. works if your players are mature enough)- some races are either not present anymore (the fleeing elves), or have an +1 LA attached (the few remaining elves), some classes cannot be taken (no cleric of... as the tample was destroyed. no barbarians of a specific totem, as the clan was masquared, and more...)
- the new characters have an instant motivation, and a realy strong one!

most chances that they might be slightly bummed at first, but then they'll be realy driven! have one of them somehow connected to the former PCs, and you have an added motivation (trying to avenge, living up to their example if they are glorified/ trying to change public view if they are blamed)

- i have no idea if your characters died by an intelligent monster, but if they have, and if they can be brought to some main villain, maybe the new party will meet them under a different role? (bound by gease, undead, parts of a flesh golem?)

the problems are of course the new work you have to do, and what to do with your plans so far? (might be a bit trickier with a published campaign, but not necesserily). i do suggest to do the work, and in order to keep things balanced enable some sort of in game "short cut" to the more advanced portions of the campaign (or just power up whatever you have, to compensate the party's new power level).
another solution is to start the party at a lowwer level (2-4 levels below what they were). this works perfectly well if the party means to "live up to" the former party's ideals and stories of heroics. make sure to throw different challanges then before though- some similar ones, but with twists and surprises. just when the party reaches the appropriate level some of the balance is restored, and you can venture on...
this might also especially fit if the party went on some entirely obscure mission, and were forgoten! then, the new party comes to explore the same adventure sight, perhaps for the same reasons (after you changed it to fit the passed time, as i shortly explained on the previous post), and then they find some clues... of someone else being there (a massive rotting skeleton, a room scorched by a fireball... make the notes now, while your memory is fresh, if you're taking that route!). finally they might even find the corpses, and might even get to understand why all these events happened! the players will like the feel of "things coming together" i assure you, and it might make a very memorable adventure, not to mention a feeling of accomplishment!

that's all i got. i support this last idea best. more work, true- but also more fun.

[Sachiel]

well, i would just pick up my game in the afterlife, the outer planes are an incredibly interesting campaign setting. I would guess they are all of simmilar allignment, send em to the same place and leave what they do next to them, if they want to persue geting themselves back into the material plane by making a deal with a powerful entity, or if they want to explore the outer planes, i would present them with options, mabe make alot of stuff on this thread as an option and act out what they choose...hehe because i myself hate DM railroading lol.
but of course this is my oppinion, im not trying to tell you how to run your game or anything (:

[Mut]

One question that comes to mind: What's more important to you (and your players) -- keeping the same adventure going, the same characters, or the same campaign? The impression I've got so far is that the PCs are disposable but you want to finish up the module. There've been some sensible suggestions for tackling that so far (obvious one is whoever set up the quest to send a second group to finish up the business). That said...


basically it went like this. the town watch sent a few guards into a tomb where there had been some raids coming from. needless to say, they did not come back. so the watch sent in somebody with a little more firepower behind them. they found proof of a grave robber/cult deal, and when investigating what seemed to be a good lead, that was a bit out of the way (so no just wandering into it) they got mauled by essentially a blind dog with DR and fast healing and a breath weapon. killed there.

Oooo... now this gets interesting! If the bad guys are grave robber cultists, I'm guessing they're doing something nefarious with the dead bodies. And here's a fresh delivery! Depending on what they're up to, you may be able to work the existing party back into the plot. For example, if the bad guys are reanimating corpses, have something go wrong when they're doing the party. The PCs wake up as self-aware zombies (or whatever) and must finish their mission AND somehow get in touch with a priest to raise them.

[vanyell]

thanks. I think I'm going to make a combination of Kol Korran's Idea, and mut's

give it a little time to sink in, and perhaps, even if only passingly, meet their former selves... in varying levels of decomposition.
it means a bit more work, but it'd make it fun for the players, and myself as well.

[Ascension]

Go back to much earlier in their lives. They play years earlier, knowing (metagame) that they will die three years from now.

The timeline is yours to play with.

Bene

They sort of did that with the second season of the show Sledge Hammer. The creators thought it would get canceled, so they ended the first season with a nuclear blast wiping out the entire cast. When they got renewed for a second season they billed the first ep. of the second season as "Sledge Hammer: The Early Years."

...then, given the non-serious nature of the show, they promptly picked up where they left off and ignored the whole concept that it was a prequel. Which you would have to do in an RPG, too, to explain how they're gaining levels and getting items that they already know they won't have in the "future" when they get killed.

[leperkhaun]

My group had a TPK happen. We ended up in a version of hell. We had to fight our way out.

took us about 5 sessions to do so and the DM had to modify his campaign a bit. We didnt get any XP, but we did pick up a couple neato abilities. Nothing gamebreaking, but stuff that was fun.

[Jimbob]

Not sure if this has been said, but the place they came from have them as the resque group. The original party has been missing for some time now and they need to go find out what has happened to them, either to return there bodies to be beried and to carry on or to give them a nudge to hurry up, but they all know that its the first one, and it means they can pick up what ever was left behind too.

[Telonius]

"you're another group of adventurers, who happen to be the same level as the other ones, so we're just going to send more bodies into the tomb"

I'm pretty strapped for ideas, that could get the party to where they could start playing again (even with other characters) without making it sound like I'm just tossing them in where they left off

No, not at all! The guards that followed them looted the bodies. This is actually how the town makes up for its yearly budget shortfall.

[Duke of URL]

Have them wake up on an alternate plane, (not their expected afterlives), and become indebted to a 'really helpful' Extraplanar entity, in exchange for them being sent back.

Mention no hooks, or anything. Utterly charitable and altruistic.

It'll freak them the hell out, especially depending on how tentacular the fellow may be, or what have you.
Then pick back up on that as a hook for the next adventure, in some way?

Or better yet, don't use it as the hook for the next adventure, but just keep dropping random references to it whenever they look like they're getting complacent. Eventually, they'll be as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

[Silkenfist]

'nother possibility: The BBEG finds their corpses and thinks they would make useful additions for his zombie army. Resurrect all of them as intelligent undead and throw a mean little template onto them that seriously hinders them but keeps them somewhat functional. Now you can add a plot arc for the players to shrug off the thrall of the BBEG and becoming redeemed by detroying their creator/finding the only cleric who can help them/find the sacred icon/whatever... and have them earn their heartbeat before they continue on their actual quest.

[Tiki Snakes]

Or better yet, don't use it as the hook for the next adventure, but just keep dropping random references to it whenever they look like they're getting complacent. Eventually, they'll be as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Especially if you describe the 'entity', word for word, as one of the devils from the monster manual, without giving a name, or giving a totally different name. :)

[Paul H]

Hi

Some years ago the PC verion of Pools of Radiance campaign linked in with the 'pen & paper' version. The PC version tells of a previous group that went ahead to pull enemy forces away. (Or was it the previous group failed & new group taking over)?

Another idea is a nearby Druid or Ranger came to the party's aid. Quick enough to save lives, but not quick enough to stop the looting of all their magical stuff. Of course the PC's wil now 'owe' their benefactors, maybe even do a small side mission for them. Also has advantage of new contacts, with all those possiblities. :smallwink:

Cheers
Paul H

[chevalier]

Have one of the PCs wake up (naked, unarmed, and minus a level) on a stone slab with clerics of an unfamiliar deity chanting around him. He has no idea who they are or why they rezzed him. He gradually discovers that he is hundreds of years in the future, the clerics found his skeleton (and only his, if you want him to go questing for the remains of the PCs, or all of 'em if you're nice) because they are convinced (incorrectly, it turns out!) that he is the fallen hero of their religion/cult for whom they've been searching for a millenia. Lot of role-playing possibilities.

C.