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Cruiser1
2008-04-01, 04:21 AM
I like D&D, where most of the classes are reasonably balanced with each other or at least have their own unique role. One serious exception to this is the Wizard class, which is grossly underpowered. The Wizard supposedly fills the "mage" role. Unfortunately, it's by far the weakest spellcaster. For example:


Clerics: They can cast like Wizards, however they can also heal. Clerics also have more hp and can wear plate armor.
Druids: They can cast like Wizards, can heal like Clerics, and wear at least some armor. They also come with a powerful animal companion that can be a good source of damage.
Sorcerer: They can cast more spells per day than Wizards (so they don't run out) and can cast spontaneously (so they have the right spell for the occasion).

People sometimes think Sorcerers are weak because of few spells known, however they actually know almost as many as the Wizard. A Sorcerer automatically knows about 2 spells per level (one of their highest level and another of the next highest). In this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#tableTheSorcerer), a Sorcerer 20 knows 34 spells between spell levels 1-9. The Sorcerer's ability to exchange known spells for others is also a nice ability. Wizards however also learn just 2 spells per level. Counting the 5 spells at level 1, a Wizard 20 knows 43 spells, which is hardly better than the Sorcerer. Besides, a Sorcerer can easily gain access to additional spells by using Runestaves from the Magic Item Compendium. Fewer spells per day combined with having to prepare (and frequently guessing wrong about what you need) means the Wizard is all but useless very quickly.

Yes, Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks, however this is very expensive. First you have to buy a scroll, where high level scrolls are very expensive (3825 gold for most 9th levels). You lose the scroll when scribing from it, and you also have to pay 100 gold (per page) to actually add it to your spellbook. And all this assumes a high magic campaign where magic scroll shops are available to begin with. If a Wizard wants to know an acceptable number of spells, they need to spend a lot of their wealth on it, instead of gear to keep themselves alive. This brings us to:

Wizards have an Achilles' heel that can easily be taken advantage of. Steal their spellbook, and all the Wizards abilities (and most of their wealth) are gone as fast as Superman's abilities when he's exposed to Kryptonite. No other class can be neutralized as easy, where playing a Wizard requires bribing and begging the DM not to make you useless. A naked Fighter can still pick up a log, grapple enemies, or even do decent unarmed damage with their Strength bonus. A naked Wizard is nothing but a commoner and a drain on the party's trail rations.

Magic is very powerful in D&D. I'm not denying that. However every class has access to magic. The Wizard's magic abilities are limited, and can easily be equaled or exceed by other classes. Rogues make use of Use Magic Device, and every class can have use-activated and command word activated magic items. Sources like the Magic Item Compendium allow any character to spend their wealth on quality magic items and become a magic user.

In the duel contests held in the Battle of the Core Classes thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36559), the melee classes tend to win out over wimpy spellcasters. For example, the Fighter would win by using his WBL to buy magic items such as a Necklace of Fireballs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#necklaceofFireballs), which he'd then throw at enemies to quickly kill them. A Wizard can buy a Necklace of Fireballs too, however the Fighter has more hp and better saves. Ergo, Fighter beats Wizard in duels.

Wizards aren't even that fun to play. It's annoying to have to pick spells to add to your spellbook, and then have to pick spells again each morning to prepare. A Sorcerer has to pick spells to know, but they can cast spontaneously. A Cleric or Druid has to pick spells to prepare, but they automatically have access to all spells. Only the Wizard is forced to choose in both cases. Although a Wizard may look interesting on paper, when actually played in a real game this "double whammy" makes it so the Wizard is rarely prepared for the situation.

Even a Wizard's so-called class "features" seem designed to make them weaker. For example, the familiar is easily killed, where its death makes you lose XP. Every other class only drops one level when dying. A TPK involving a Wizard can make the Wizard lose two levels, with their own death plus loss of XP from the familiar. This brings us to:

Wizards are simply fragile. Low hp, low saves, and no armor makes them an easy target. Intelligent monsters will target weak characters like the Wizard in order to reduce the number of players faster, meaning Wizards frequently tank monsters and take hits more often than melee characters. When the group is targeted with area effects, the Wizard is the first to fall. In other words, even if the Wizard was equal to other classes, the fact that the Wizard is usually a few levels behind the rest of the party due to dying so often negates that.

To restore class balance to our beloved game, I propose the following house rules to make the Wizard class not so underpowered:


Wizards automatically have access to all spells on their spell list, like Clerics and Druids. Wizards no longer have spellbooks that hog up wealth and can be stolen.
Wizards gain XP at a rate 50% faster than other classes, to help counteract how often they die.
Wizard familiar death no longer results in loss of XP, where a new familiar can be summoned each day for free after a one minute casting time.
Increase Wizard HD to d8, to keep them alive a little longer since every enemy seems to want to attack them.
Allow Wizards to wear at least light armor and cast without arcane spell failure like Druids.

PS: Happy April Fool's Day everyone! ;)

Grey Paladin
2008-04-01, 04:23 AM
:smalleek:
RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-01, 04:29 AM
hmmmph . . . :amused:

you're kidding, right? This is totally an April Fool's joke. I hope.

Tempest Fennac
2008-04-01, 04:31 AM
I'm assuming this is an April Fools joke (mainly because of the white text at the bottom of the page). I'm going to act as though it isn;t because there would be no fun in ignoring it. While some of those are interesting points, a sane Wizard would stay away from danger as much as possible, and DMs usually don't screw with Wizard's spellbooks if they are any good due to how annoying it would be for everyone if that happened. Also, being able to pick spells can make them much more versatile then a Sorcerer (eg: a Wizard could chose to store 1 Break Curse if s/he thought they would need it, but a Sorcerer would need a scroll (learning the spell would be suboptimal unless it was needed a lot).

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-01, 04:36 AM
huh. I missed that. I do occasionally mess with the wizard's spellbook, but not very often. If I do, it is meant to be a plot point, and I usually have an easy way to get a spellbook. The wizards spends a plot arc using a different set of spells than he usually does, then he gets his spellbook back, and winds up with a few new spells from the spellbook he had to "borrow".

Since they get new spells, and I am somewhat difficult when it comes to finding new spells, my players don't mind too much, as long as it doesn't happen often.

I ran one plot arc where spellcasters didn't recover spells for a few days. That didn't go over so well.

Swordguy
2008-04-01, 04:36 AM
Ah, I see you read the article from Wizards.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw) about how they're planning to improve the Wizard class in 4th edition too. It's about time, frankly. I mean, the company is named after the class - you'd expect the class to reflect that singular honor by being able to pull its own weight.

Nebo_
2008-04-01, 04:38 AM
It would have been funnier if it was subtle.

Tempest Fennac
2008-04-01, 04:43 AM
I can see why that didn't get over, Skjaldbakka (unless your players hardly ever used spells or everyone was fine with waiting around for days in the middle of missions, it would get annoying). Admittedly, your spellbook idea sounds quite interesting. I've thought og another way to "rebalance" Wizards: make them use the Recharging Magic class variant: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm (it's the opposite of the spellcasters only being able to recover spells every few days).

Cubey
2008-04-01, 04:44 AM
It would have been funnier if it was subtle.

It was subtle for me until I've read the proposed fixes.

Rad
2008-04-01, 04:53 AM
Unfortunately the game balance is not perfect and some classes are just better than others. Getting some of the TWF abilities from the CW Samuray could be a better fix that allows you to preserve the great flavour tied to D&D spellcasting system.

tyckspoon
2008-04-01, 04:55 AM
I like how there's just enough true stuff mixed in (like the overly harsh rules for a dead or even voluntarily dismissed familiar) with the exaggerations and mostly-lies to keep you guessing. A little obvious because of the length and references to the most-repeated arguments, but good show.

BTW, everybody knows the familiar penalties and near complete lack of penalties for lost animal companions.. hands up anybody who can say what the penalty for having a Paladin's Special Mount die is without going and looking it up.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-01, 04:56 AM
I can.

Also, I HATE this day.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-01, 04:58 AM
Well, it was only a few days because the resolved the plot in a few days. If they'd just waited, it wouldn't have fixed anything.

Talic
2008-04-01, 05:53 AM
Unfortunately the game balance is not perfect and some classes are just better than others. Getting some of the TWF abilities from the CW Samuray could be a better fix that allows you to preserve the great flavour tied to D&D spellcasting system.

Hush your mouth! Core D&D is perfectly balanced in all classes and feats. Skill focus: Knowledge(nobility & Royalty), that's every bit as viable as feats like Power Attack.

Further, every class is perfectly balanced for use in both PvP and adventuring. I can't think of one class that has a less than average survival chance when played intelligently, with good use of skills and wealth by level.

toysailor
2008-04-01, 06:07 AM
There are some legitimate points made until you got to your proposed improvements. It didn't seem plausible that its a serious post after that =)

I hate spell-book stealing DMs and crazy 1st-lvl-wizard-slaying housecats ><

Happy April's Fool =)

Khanderas
2008-04-01, 06:16 AM
It would have been funnier if it was subtle.
Subtle don't work on the internet.
True story.

Chronicled
2008-04-01, 06:32 AM
While your proposed fixes are admirable, I don't think that they do enough. Remember, even in core a wizard has to compete against classes like the monk. I think that, to keep pace with the monk, a wizard should get access to Polymorph and Divine Power at level 3. If that still seems underpowered, giving a wizard a free True Resurrection every level might help it compare to a monk's powerful class features of Use Magic Device and Diplomacy.

"Keep pace"--did you see what I did there? ... All right, bad pun.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-01, 06:43 AM
It would have been funnier if it was subtle.

+1.

yadda yadda minimum letter count.

bugsysservant
2008-04-01, 07:04 AM
Actually, there really are some valid points in there. Yes, it was a joke, but the wizard class really does have some Achilles heels. For instance, the XP that wizards are expected to spend often puts them behind in levels. Also, Wizard class features suck. Is it any wonder that virtually everyone PrC's out of wizard as soon as they can? Hell, WoTC even realized that and started making lower level PrCs, such as master specialist, so that people don't have to stay in the class as long. Personally, I'm in favor of merging the class features of wizard, and one of the most commonly taken PrC: incantrix. Not only would this provide incentive to remain in the class till at least level fifteen, but you're not nerfing yourself by doing so.

P.S. What the hell is April Fools day?

Spiryt
2008-04-01, 08:21 AM
Unfortunately the game balance is not perfect and some classes are just better than others. Getting some of the TWF abilities from the CW Samuray could be a better fix that allows you to preserve the great flavour tied to D&D spellcasting system.

Bring in the Flurry of Blows!

Lord Tataraus
2008-04-01, 08:43 AM
There are valid points in this argument, in fact look what wizards has to say about this topic as if pertains to 4e: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080328 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)

Kraggi
2008-04-01, 08:47 AM
The problem is all those bonus feats fighters get, and how the monks get wisdom to AC. In a world with people using their fists and pieces of metal, fireball wielding folk don't stand a chance. But that's what happens when you put flavour and RPing over balance. It's a trade we all have to deal with.

Zeful
2008-04-01, 09:00 AM
[...] Low hp, low saves, and no armor makes them an easy target. Intelligent monsters will target weak characters like the Wizard in order to reduce the number of players faster, meaning Wizards frequently tank monsters and take hits more often than melee characters.[...]

When you attribute intelligence to the player's enemies (and by extension the campaign world) the wizard class stops being a playable class.

Tobrian
2008-04-01, 09:17 AM
Aw, I was cheering you on ("Damn straight! Preach it, sister!") until I came to the "To restore class balance to our beloved game..." part, then I realized it must be an April Fool's joke. :smallfrown: I always fall for April Fool's jokes.


But seriously.... <rant> the wizard is the only class who who LOSES XP when he uses his class features: i.e. Scribing of Scrolls!
But the game designers explicitely stated in discussion of the classes that they screwed the wizard over and gave him less spells-per-day than any other full spellcasting class because wizards gets the Scribe Scroll feat for free, and they expect him to pick up the various magic item creation feats to supplement his magic.

What this boils down to then is, the wizard is stuck spending his hard-earned money and XP on making scrolls (single use items), wands and staffs (that run out), potions (another single-use item) and whatnot which mainly benefits the group while everyone else (maybe with the exception of the cleric, if said cleric took Brew Potion as a feat) spends their money on magic items. So if you play by-the-book, the wizard actually loses XP in a steady trickle, and falls behind. Unless he starts buying scrolls and wands from NPCs wizards, like his buddy the rogue does, but then what was the point of having all those crafting and scribing feats? Bleh. Hurray for Eternal Wands (from MIC); at least these work like an actual extra spell slots per day, filled with pre-selected spells.

Not to mention a DM can easily neutralize a wizard without stealing his spellbook: just use your DM powers to rul the wizard didn't get his 8 hours of uninterrupted quality-time sleep, oh sorry, "rest", or no hour to memorize afterwards. And there you have it.

</rant>

Tempest Fennac
2008-04-01, 09:22 AM
Don't all classes use Exp. for making items except for Artificers to a degree? The difference is that Wizards get more feats, so they are more likely to pick item creation deats then a lot of other classes.

Eldariel
2008-04-01, 09:27 AM
Hush your mouth! Core D&D is perfectly balanced in all classes and feats. Skill focus: Knowledge(nobility & Royalty), that's every bit as viable as feats like Power Attack.

Further, every class is perfectly balanced for use in both PvP and adventuring. I can't think of one class that has a less than average survival chance when played intelligently, with good use of skills and wealth by level.

Toughness beats them both though, which breaks the balance. And that's without even mentioning the brokenness that's Mobility! Also, Skill Focus: Knowledge (N&R) may be nearly as bad as Power Attack (I mean WTF, you lose To Hit for damage?! What good is damage if you don't hit?), Skill Focus: Decipher Script is totally broken. I mean, how is the DM supposed to hide anything from his players if they can decipher every piece of paper they get their hands on?

Breaw
2008-04-01, 09:30 AM
Hush your mouth! Core D&D is perfectly balanced in all classes and feats. Skill focus: Knowledge(nobility & Royalty), that's every bit as viable as feats like Power Attack.

I know we're all being sarcastic and funny here, but I figured I should point out that in some campaigns I play roughly 50% of the time spent is political/detective work. Political situations specifically require successful Knowledge:nobility, bluff & diplomacy checks the first time.

+3 on a relevant role might not be as good as power attack, but I can certainly think of many worse ones (weapon focus for one :P )

To the OP: I think you underestimate some of the challenges druids go through in a typical gaming session. Sure being a lightning breathing dire bear might seem somewhat useful in combat settings, but what about town? Have you ever tried getting a clean room and a nice mug of beer at the local tavern as a a Lynx as all the mugs in the room glow white hot? It's not quite as easy as it sounds. And when the Barkeep has me escorted out of the building? I did the logical thing any druid would do! But did antiplant shell hold the villagers at bay? It didn't even slow them down! Maybe my DMs just a jerk.

Whatever, you should try a druid out some time, they can be pretty tough.

Sir Giacomo
2008-04-01, 02:28 PM
Excellent OP!

From all imaginable perspectives!

- Giacomo

KIDS
2008-04-01, 02:51 PM
It's teh Lightning Warrior, runz!!!

Indon
2008-04-01, 03:11 PM
Who cares about the Wizard, they suck. Just use the Binder from Tome of Magic, they're everything the Wizard's supposed to be, and ten times more flavorful.

Hawriel
2008-04-01, 05:15 PM
Cruiser1 missed an important fact about wizards. Spell components. I know 3rd ed mostley did away with them but some spells still requier a material component. This can be eny thing from bat poop to diamond dust. You think the Rogue is a pain in the butt for swiping the gold? Well the wizard is nabbing any gem he/she can get their hands on. Then grinds them into worthless powder. Thats gold out of my rogues pocket!!! And you call him a thief.

Its not just about protecting the spell book with more loving care than your first born child. What happens when the wizard needs to cast fire ball and the GM sais "when was the last time you collected any bat poop?". Uh oh. It cant be just any bat poop scrapped off the dungeon floor eather. It has to be dried, treated and stored correctly. Thats alot of stuff and weight for a 8 strenghed character. You think just or magic cloak and spell book might be damaged? What happens when your wizard is hit by a fire ball or tossed into a body of whater? How many of your spell components servived that?

If you want to play 'for real' that is all stuff you need to keep track of. As mentioned by other posters some times your not going to get the nice 8 hourse sleep with a lazy morning to studdy your entire spell book. There are alot of elements to the game that pritty much every one ignores. Weather, spell compnents, travel time, food, mony, emcumbrance and so much more. If even half of them where thought about even half the time it would go very far to make the game balanced between player character classes. However we all toss this aside because we want to speak in character and get into cool fights not worry about going to the privy, the general stor, getting a weapon perment for that halberd and so on. One of the things that my friends and I toss to the side is exp cost for magic items. Wizards are not the only ones that can make them. My cleric is an armor/weapons smith as well as a master brewer.

As for spellbooks. They are fair game. A DM is not being a bad DM if you as a player character cannot keep track of such an important item. If the fighter can loose his +4 flaming dancing luck blade or +3 SR fullplate to a rust monster (or other tragedy) its only fair that a wizard can loose a hand or a spell book. Keep in mind that the CR of the monsters are made with the fighter being decked out in magic every thing apropriat to their level. Through out my gaming career almost all of the wizards have lost their spell books once. Thats why my wizard had three.

Signmaker
2008-04-01, 05:49 PM
Yet another epic sarcasm thread.

Wizards, Monks, Samurai, what will they make fun of next?!

MisterSaturnine
2008-04-01, 06:02 PM
Who cares about the Wizard, they suck. Just use the Binder from Tome of Magic, they're everything the Wizard's supposed to be, and ten times more flavorful.

If by Binder you mean Truenamer, then sure. The number of possible things to bind are confusing for a new player, whereas the Truenamer uses a simpler, dice-rolling mechanic. All you have to do to cast a spell is roll a skill check--what's not to love?

Kyeudo
2008-04-01, 06:07 PM
I commend the OP on his wonderful satire of the Wizard balance debates.

Frosty
2008-04-01, 06:50 PM
If by Binder you mean Truenamer, then sure. The number of possible things to bind are confusing for a new player, whereas the Truenamer uses a simpler, dice-rolling mechanic. All you have to do to cast a spell is roll a skill check--what's not to love?

Yeah, and we all know that getting an item of +20 Knowledge is pretty easy and not all that expensive!

Randel
2008-04-01, 10:04 PM
Ah but we all know that wizards have the advantage of versitility and can easily make up for their slightly lower number of spells per day though specialisation!

For example, a regular generalist wizard gets access to his entire spell list but has a lower number of spells per day. But through the low low price of banning two schools of magic (which only works out to a mere 1/4 of their total class spell list) they get an extra spell slot per spell level that they can fill with a spell from their specialist school!

Compare that to the extreamly limited list of domains available to clerics. A cleric can get the extra spells per day only by choosing two domains at their first level, few of which have spells in them normally found in other classes and even less that have useful domain abilities. And clerics are stuck filling their extra spell slot with one of the two spells from their domain... and its not like they can just decide to burn that slot up for a Cure spell if they don't like the spell they are stuck with.

So yeah, wizards obviously get the better deal when augmenting their spell list. Besides, its really important for DMs to prevent wizards from abusing their ability to scribe scrolls into their spellbook. Otherwise you could get a wizard learning how to cast cure spells or even worse scribing scrolls of cure spells using their bonus feat!

After all, if a wizard were to use his spell slots to to heal his comrades or Create Food and Drink, he would become grossly overpowered in comparison to the cleric! And scribing cure spells into scroll form? Outrageous! He's doing the party cleric a disservice by not letting him use a feat for item creation. Because... you know... its not like a cleric would be better choosing some other feat to augment their ability and let wizards use a class feature to help out with healing if they want to. Or that wizards might feel like learning some spells that people actually use in non-combat situations.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-04-01, 10:34 PM
I can't wait until 24 hours from know when I will once again be able to determine whether someone is serious and deluded or just screwing with my perception of the universe.