How exactly does Chain Spell work?

[Frosty]

Ok, so Chain spell lets me hit secondary targets at half damage. Great.
They get Reflex save for half again if the spell doesn't let you save for half originally. Great. But...

What happens if you Chain a Sound (or was it Sonic) Lance? 1d8 damage per CL, Fortitude for half. Let's say the damage roll was 40 damage. Secondary targets take 20 damage each before saves are rolled. Now, do the targets get to make both a reflex save AND a fort save, potentially only taking 1/8 of the original damage? Or do they only get a reflex save?

Chain spell also says, if the spell doesn't do damage, then instead the save DC is lowered by 4 for secondary targets. What happens if I Chain an Orb of Sonic? Secondary targets will get to reflex, but does the secondary effect's DC get lowered by 4?

[Starbuck_II]

Ok, so Chain spell lets me hit secondary targets at half damage. Great.
They get Reflex save for half again if the spell doesn't let you save for half originally. Great. But...

What happens if you Chain a Sound (or was it Sonic) Lance? 1d8 damage per CL, Fortitude for half. Let's say the damage roll was 40 damage. Secondary targets take 20 damage each before saves are rolled. Now, do the targets get to make both a reflex save AND a fort save, potentially only taking 1/8 of the original damage? Or do they only get a reflex save?

Chain spell also says, if the spell doesn't do damage, then instead the save DC is lowered by 4 for secondary targets. What happens if I Chain an Orb of Sonic? Secondary targets will get to reflex, but does the secondary effect's DC get lowered by 4?

Your reading it wrong/thiniking too hard.

Sound Lance has a Save. Thus, it only has a A. Secondaries get 1/2 if fail Reflex or 1/4 if make save. And than yeah if make both Reflex and Fort save, 1/8th.
Also, the DC is not changed because Sound Lance deals damage.



a. It does damage, secondaries take 1/2.
b. It doesn't do damage, secondaries get -4 to DC (or +4 to their saves same difference).

The Chain Metamagic checks for A than B.
If not A, than B. Kinda like a Logical Argument.

If You chain a Orb spell: it alreadly fulfills A, thus no B.

You only have B when there is no damage.
B is only for Chaining non-damaging spells like Charm, G. M.W, etc.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

The Chain Metamagic checks for A than B.
If not A, than B. Kinda like a Logical Argument.

Interestingly this means that any spell with a save or lose effect that also does damage (no matter how small) instantly becomes awesome when chained.

Like Fleshshiver which is 1 round stun followed by Fort or be Nauseated for 1d4+2 rounds and 1d6/lvl damage.

So you can chain it, no save stun multiple enemies, and then have them all save versus the Nausea with no bonus.

[Frosty]

You sure that they can potentially save for 1/8? It seems extremely weak...

what if the spell already allows reflex for half? Does the secondary victim get to roll reflex twice?

[Starbuck_II]

Interestingly this means that any spell with a save or lose effect that also does damage (no matter how small) instantly becomes awesome when chained.

Like Fleshshiver which is 1 round stun followed by Fort or be Nauseated for 1d4+2 rounds and 1d6/lvl damage.

So you can chain it, no save stun multiple enemies, and then have them all save versus the Nausea with no bonus.

Is Fleshshiver a ranged attack? If so (Reach metamagic overcomes range issue though if it is touch), than yeah by the rules, it only lowers DC if it doesnt' deal damage.

Since you deal damage after that 1 round (if I'm understanding you), than it would not have DC issue since it wouldn't technically be a damage spell.

Is that in Spell Compendruim?

Frost:


what if the spell already allows reflex for half? Does the secondary victim get to roll reflex twice?

When I read your name, I always think of that Rudolph song, " I'm Mr. Ice maker" "he is too much". (Love that song)

Anyhoo, well, I'm reading the feat again:
It says you get take 1/2 damage of original, and get reflex for 1/2 (whether original did or not). So you get 1/4th with sucessful save.

So I'm assuming since you already get reflex save you don't get a second as that seems it is saying: if you don't have reflex save you get one, but if you don't get another.

As Sound Lance is a Fort Save, adding a reflex is still only one reflex save.

That is my reading. It is somewhat interpretation whether you get second reflex save when it already has a reflex save. My instinct says no, but to be honest it isn't very well defined.

It should have reworded it to say: attempt reflex for 1/2 (if original did not allowed a reflex save; otherwise just use that).
But it wasn't so 2 reflex saves seems possible...

[mostlyharmful]

For exactly these reasons chain meta should only be used on buffs and chained no save debuffs otherwise it just gets so sticky... Greater Magic Weapon and Enervaration are quite frankly enough reason to take the damn feat in the first place and after that it's all gravy

Edit: Just please for the love of god don't try to chain magic jar for that way leads to nothing but arguement.

[Alevar]

Just please for the love of god don't try to chain magic jar for that way leads to nothing but arguement.

teehee

<snicker> <snicker>

[Sinfire Titan]

The Chain Metamagic checks for A than B.
If not A, than B. Kinda like a Logical Argument.


Just want to point this out: That's an Indictive argument. Not technically an arguement; more of an assumption or statement.

[PhoenixRivers]

It doesn't grant a Ref save for half to Sound Lance.

It only grants a Reflex save if the spell does not already grant a save for half damage. Sound lance does. That save is a Fort save, but the description we are provided does not specify "if the spell doesn't allow a reflex save for half"... So any save for half will do.