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Duke of URL
2008-04-01, 01:12 PM
GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE X: MAGNIFICENT MONSTERS

"Hate monsters... with class levels" - Roy Greenhilt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html)

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

"Magnificent Monsters" Specific Rules
Entries may be submitted and edited up until noon PST on Tuesday, April 8, 2008.
SPECIAL RULE: For this challenge, racial HD and LA MUST be applied on separate sides of the build. (I.e., LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ... format only.)
SPECIAL RULE: Minimum racial HD + LA is 10; with a minimum LA of +2 and a minimum of 2 racial hit dice
SPECIAL RULE: You are allowed up to one template only, and if using a template, it must be an inherited template, not an acquired one -- no cheese points for this template
SPECIAL RULE: You may NOT use a race that gains class-like spellcasting ability and then advance that ability with class levels. (E.g., Rakshaha could not advance Sorcerer spellcasting with levels in Sorcerer or any PrC that would increase spellcasting level)
Challenge Goal: Create a monster using the above criteria that will be legendary.
Please try to follow the format of the example (but also a legit entry) in the next post



Upcoming Challenges
Skill-Monkey Business -- support specialists
In-core-eligible -- builds that don't use "core" races, classes, or feats
more to come... (I hope. Feel free to suggest some!)


Previous Challenges
Melee Masters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3873051)
Great Gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71548)
The Urge To Theurge (http://www.giantitp.cof/forums/showthread.php?t=72444)
Army Of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73021)
Invocation Vocation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73539)
Double Dippers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74253)
Home On The Range(d) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74764)
Vulnerable Villains (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75327)
Riders On The Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75928)

Duke of URL
2008-04-01, 01:13 PM
Name:
Build:
Starting Ability Scores: STR x, DEX x, CON x, INT x, WIS x, CHA x
Cheese Points:
Minimum Playable Level:
Power Break:

(Level-by-level breakdown here)

Offense

Defense

Weaknesses

streakster
2008-04-01, 01:16 PM
Ah, I get it! Good one, sir, good one.

Talic
2008-04-01, 01:48 PM
Hmm. By the rules, Tauric (an inherited template) is still legal. And if daddy horse was template loaded with every template known to man, they wouldn't be passed to you. Just the stat boosts and special powers. Hmmm.

Nah, this one, I think I'll actually NOT cheese.

Duke of URL
2008-04-01, 01:54 PM
Hmm. By the rules, Tauric (an inherited template) is still legal. And if daddy horse was template loaded with every template known to man, they wouldn't be passed to you. Just the stat boosts and special powers. Hmmm.

Nah, this one, I think I'll actually NOT cheese.

Given the amount of sheer cheddar involved, I think I'll ban Tauric just for good measure. :smallwink:

SamTheCleric
2008-04-01, 01:55 PM
Forgive the overly stupid question... but what's the difference between the two types of templates? I want to make sure I don't break the rules.

Duke of URL
2008-04-01, 01:59 PM
Forgive the overly stupid question... but what's the difference between the two types of templates? I want to make sure I don't break the rules.

They both mean literally what they say -- an inherited template is something you're born with, typically inherited from either of (or both!) your parents. Acquired templates are the result of something happening to you.

The template description will always say which it is. For example:


"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Whereas:


"Half-fiend" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 4 or more and nongood alignment (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Vortling
2008-04-01, 02:01 PM
Minimum 10 ECL to start? I'll see what I can find for monster races that have that.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-01, 02:06 PM
Ohhh. Ok. As long as it's in the description.

I shall make a legendary monster, the likes of which has never been seen!

SamTheCleric
2008-04-01, 02:46 PM
Name: Skippy
Build: Half-Blue Dragon Frost Giant Fighter//Fighter/Barbarian/Disciple of Thyrm
Starting Ability Scores: STR 37, DEX 9, CON 23, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 13
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 15
Power Break: Around level 15 or so. :smallbiggrin:

RHD//LA
RHD//LA
RHD//LA
RHD//LA
RHD//LA
RHD//LA
RHD//LA
RHD//Barbarian
RHD//Fighter
RHD//Fighter
RHD//Disciple of Thyrm
RHD//Disciple of Thyrm
RHD//Disciple of Thyrm
RHD//Disciple of Thyrm
Fighter//Disciple of Thyrm
Fighter//Disciple of Thyrm
Fighter//Disciple of Thyrm
Fighter//Disciple of Thyrm
Fighter//Disciple of Thyrm
Fighter//Disciple of Thyrm

One stat bump to strength, one to con. +6 STR item. Puts him at a 44 strength. +17 mod. Now, he doesnt have a full BAB, since the 14 racial hit die only provide a +10 BAB. But it's safe to say he has at least a +16. That's +34 to hit with 3d6+36 damage as a base. Tack on some charging, combat brute shock troopering leap attacks... and he is going to hurt you. His weapon can be considered Icy Burst for up to 10 rounds per day and he can deliver an Agonizing Strike 2/day for an additional 5d6 cold damage.

Feats:
[From Frost Giant] - Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder
[From Fighter] - Weapon Focus (Greataxe), Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Weapon Specialization (Greataxe), Combat Brute
[From Levels] - Leap Attack, Improved Critical (Greataxe)


Offense - He hits you. Basic ubercharger with 2x str applied to his greataxe (from disciple of thyrm), lots of spells from Disciple of Thyrm including Entomb and Shivering Touch. Oh, and he exhales lightning.

Defense - Immune to Electricity, Fire and Cold. Mettle. 14d12+6d10+120 hit points.

Weaknesses - Acid and Sonic damage are still able to hurt him, as are any other spell I suppose. He has a low dex and a probably a low AC. Luckily he has a large chunk of HP to soak up the damage.

Chronos
2008-04-01, 03:18 PM
Defense - Immune to Fire and Cold.Yeah, but he takes one and a half times zero from both!

Talic
2008-04-01, 03:55 PM
Name: [b]Inevitable
Build: Half-Green Dragon Troll Fi11/\Wiz 5, Elemental Savant (Fire) 10
Starting Ability Scores: STR 32, DEX 18, CON 22, INT 16, WIS 6, CHA 6
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 9
Power Break: 9 and 20.

Offense: Casts as Wizard 14 (Caster level 18) DC is ok. Specialist Evoker. Has Good melee skills, reach, and a fighter line designed to take advantage of both.

Defense: Regen 5 that can only be bypassed by fire and acid, and immunity to acid starting, and fire at 20. Wiz side can memorize energy resistance to fire until then, and Magic items should focus on mental and negative energy protection.

Weaknesses: Don't hit his body. It's like rocky Balboa. No matter what, it keeps getting back up. Hit his brain. Even so, no damage there. Use Compulsions.

1) RHD / RLA Power Attack
2) RHD / RLA
3) RHD / RLA Improved Sunder
4) RHD / RLA (Int +1)
5) RHD / RLA
6) RHD / Wiz 1 Explosive Spell, Scribe Scroll
7) TLA / Wiz 2
8) TLA / Wiz 3 (Int +1)
9) TLA / Wiz 4 Energy Substitution (Fire)
10) Fi 1/ Wiz 5 Combat Reflexes, Sudden Still
11) Fi 2/ ElS 1 Combat Expertise
12) Fi 3/ ElS 2 (Str +1)Practiced Spellcaster(Wiz)
13) Fi 4/ ElS 3 Improved Trip
14) Fi 5/ ElS 4
15) Fi 6/ ElS 5 Sudden Maximize, Large and In Charge
16) Fi 7/ ElS 6 (Str +1)
17) Fi 8/ ElS 7 Evasive Reflexes
18) Fi 9/ ElS 8 Spell Focus (Evocation)
19) Fi 10/ ElS 9 Leap Attack
20) Fi 11/ ElS 10 (Str +1)

Saves +18/+9/+9
BAB: +15/+10/+5

Qualities:
Size: Large
Type: Giant, no, Dragon, no, Elemental
HD: (3d4+18) + (17d10+66) = 185 HP
Speed: 50, Fly 100(avg)
AC: 22 (-1(Size) +4(Dex) +9(Natural))
BAB/Grp: +15/+30
Attacks: 2 Slam +26 (1d6+12 + 1d6 Fire), Bite +21 (1d6+6)
Special Attacks: Rend: 2d6+18, Breath Weapon: 30ft Cone of Gas(Acid): 6d8 (Ref DC19 half) every 1d4 rounds, Burn (Ref DC26, or burn 1d6 for 1d4 Rounds)
Spec Qual: Darkvision 60, Low Light Vis, Immune Sleep and Paralysis, Immune Acid and Fire, Regeneration 5, Scent

Skills (Lv20): Listen +6, Spot +6, Know Arcana +12, Know Planes +8, Concentration +29, Spellcraft +27, Climb +35, Jump +35

Class Abilities:
Energy Specialty: Fire
Energy Penetration (4)
Energy Focus (fire) +2
Immune Poison, Stunning
No Sleep, Eat, Breathe
Immune Critical hits, Flanking
Immune Fire (Ex)
Vulnerable to Cold

At first playable level (9), it is a troll with an (Ex) immunity to acid. At level 20, it gains an (Ex) Immunity to Fire. Yes, it's still immune to everything in an antimagic field. In fact, once he hits level 20? A stone that projects antimagic, a lead box to suppress the effect when needed, an adamantine sword, and he's golden.

It can melee well, it can magic passably well, it's damn near impossible to kill.

EDIT: Oh, and the DC, assuming a +6 Int item, and +4 inherent from a book, of his saves will be 19+ spell level, 20+ spell level for evocation, 22+spell level for fire spells.

Without AMF, I'd keep a contingency to Teleport if he ever passed out. In a party? No so much, rely on party backup.

EDIT AGAIN: In Soviet Russia, Troll throws fire at YOU!

Ascension
2008-04-01, 04:04 PM
Well, first off, this is the first Gestalt character I've ever built, so... apologies if she stinks.

Secondly, I'm kind of cheesing this up. Duke of URL said that advancing the creature's existing spellcasting wasn't allowed, but instead I'm advancing a creature which starts with sneak attack (it was clarified in the MM3 Errata). That should get me some extra cheese right there. I think she should end up with a better sneak attack than should be possible for a non-epic rogue. I could add even more d6s and boost Mormo's speed to incredible levels (She starts with 40ft speed) by adding scout levels and swift ambusher, but I decided to keep this one relatively simple and very easy to explain.

Name: Mormo of Midnight
Build: Naztharune Rakshasa Assassin/Spymaster//Swordsage
Starting Ability Scores: STR 12 DEX 24 CON 16 INT 16 WIS 17 CHA 17
Cheese Points: I need a good number for stacking racial and class-based Sneak Attack, but at least Spymaster keeps it from being totally maxed.
Minimum Playable Level: 12
Power Break: Offensively, Level 12, when she can pick up Shadow Blade, also Level 15, when she gains Disemboweling Strike (CON damage on a sneak attack), WIS to damage on Tiger Claw strikes, and Cat's Grace. Defensively, Level 13, when she gains Deep Cover to protect her from divination spells and her WIS bonus to AC, also Level 19, when she gains a +2 to all saving throws while in a Shadow Hand stance and gains access to Greater Invisibility and Dimension Door.

RHD//LA (Weapon Finesse)
RHD//LA
RHD//LA (Two-Weapon Fighting)
RHD//LA [+1 INT]
RHD//LA
RHD//Assassin (Skill Focus: Bluff)
RHD//Spymaster
RHD//Spymaster [+1 INT]
RHD//Spymaster (Darkstalker)
RHD//Spymaster
RHD//Spymaster
Swordsage//Spymaster (Shadow Blade) ((Discipline Focus: Shadow Hand)) [+1 WIS]
Swordsage//Spymaster
Swordsage//Assassin
Swordsage//Assassin (Disemboweling Strike) ((Discipline Focus: Tiger Claw))
Swordsage//Assassin [+1 DEX]
Swordsage//Assassin
Swordsage//Assassin (Sudden Recovery)
Swordsage//Assassin ((Discipline Focus: Shadow Hand))
Swordsage//Assassin [+1 DEX]

Offense: The party will have heard rumors of a string of assassinations in the area, but will have had no leads as to who's behind them. They will first meet Mormo under a benevolent deep cover identity, and even if they use True Seeing, they won't be able to tell that she is anything other than what she claims to be (Thank you, Spymaster). She may even be the wife of a prominent noble in town, using her innate Change Shape ability to constantly appear completely human. If they begin to have doubts about her, she reads their minds with her innate Detect Thoughts and acts to ease their worries. They realize something's terribly wrong when they wake up one morning and find an important NPC dead in the same room that they slept in. She, as the noble's wife, blames the murder on them.

Of course there will be an inevitable violent confrontation, and I'm going to come back later to flesh this out, but I'm sure you can already guess that she'll be going Shadow Hand and taking Shadow Blade for large amounts of DEX to damage, and her sneak attack bonuses will be insanely high.

Defense: She'll have quite a good DEX bonus and WIS to AC. She has Hide in Plain Sight and Shadow Jump as innate abilities, plus she'll have additional teleportation abilities from the Shadow Hand school. She'll be hard to hit and able to easily escape when the time is right... and you can be certain the assassins under her command won't be happy if you drive her out of town.

Weakness: Umm... She's not a full caster? The party could very well save against Detect Thoughts? Really, the Spymaster + Naztharune Rakshasa combo is quite powerful for a subtle trickster and the Shadow Hand Swordsage + Naztharune Rakshasa combo is quite powerful for a dexterous melee attacker. She's the best backstabber I can think of.

By the way: Source of the name. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormo) She would've been vampiric too, just for flavor, but Duke ruled out acquired templates. And it would've made it hard to pretend to be human, too.

Talic
2008-04-01, 04:19 PM
Not bad at ALL, Ascension. You attack a traditionally weak stat (Dex), have good sneak attack, and a variety of evasive abilities. Only Possible foils I can see are the infamous high level Mind Blank, possibly AoE non reflex saves (yes, they do exist). But a solid entry. Highest damage so far is the Frost Giant, and hardest to kill is mine, and hardest to FIND is yours. Not to mention good abilities.

Where ya getting HiPS from, btw?

SamTheCleric
2008-04-01, 05:08 PM
All we need is a healer/buffer and we have an adventuring party!

What a weird party it would be... Frost Giant Ubercharger, Undying Acid Breathing Troll, Rakasha that stabs your kidney... really hard.

Vortling
2008-04-01, 05:57 PM
All we need is a healer/buffer and we have an adventuring party!

What a weird party it would be... Frost Giant Ubercharger, Undying Acid Breathing Troll, Rakasha that stabs your kidney... really hard.
Give me a few hours. My idea for this actually will actually be a decent healer. Any thoughts on extrapolating stat bonuses and reassigning feats from HD?

mabriss lethe
2008-04-01, 06:16 PM
crap, I was going to whip up a gestalt wight until I saw the "no savage species-esque level progressions." That would have made it much easier to work out. I'll just have to think of something different now.

Chronos
2008-04-01, 06:33 PM
Give me a few hours. My idea for this actually will actually be a decent healer. Any thoughts on extrapolating stat bonuses and reassigning feats from HD?For stats, subtract 10 or 11 (whichever makes it even) from the listed stats to find the modifiers. Remember that if the creature has 4 or more racial HD, it's already assigned some stat increase points.

For feats, all of the monster-based entries in previous challenges have just chosen whatever they want, without restricting to the listed ones from the monster entries. Bonus feats, of course, you're stuck with.

Vortling
2008-04-01, 06:39 PM
Thanks, sounds good. Lethe, you think you're disappointed I wanted to stick in a ghaele on one side of the progression. Fortunately I found another option. :smallbiggrin:

SamTheCleric
2008-04-01, 07:37 PM
You know what... I'm dumb. Level 10 Disciple of Thyrm gets Immunity to Fire anyway. Why am I bothering with Half-Red Dragon? I need to find another template!

Kurald Galain
2008-04-01, 07:59 PM
The Proof is in the Pudding

Build: An evil druid whose name is lost to history saw the growing civilization as a blight upon the lands. He worked great magics to spawn a monster to stop the fertile humans. Unfortunately, he was never too keen on book knowledge, and hence his creation failed to do anything - until, raging around in frustration, the druid tripped and fell onto his own creature. After the druid dissolved and died painfully, the being took on a malevolent aura that could only result from having achieved sentience...

Starting Ability Scores (with racial mod given): STR 14+6 = 20, DEX 14-10 = 4, CON 16+12 = 28, INT 14-8 = 6, WIS 8-7 = 1, CHA 8-7 = 1
Cheese Points: None, I hope. Well, the critter would dissolve cheese quickly, at any rate.
Minimum Playable Level: 10.
Power Break: Not really, it's pretty steady.

{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Feats and abilities
1|Black pudding|Fiendish creature|Fiendish heritage, Split form, Dissolve, SR 15, Blindsight
2|Black pudding|Fiendish creature|Resist cold/fire 10, DR 5/magic, Smite good
3|Black pudding|Barbarian|Great fortitude, Rage, Fast move, Illiterate
4|Black pudding|Barbarian|Uncanny dodge
5|Black pudding|Fighter|Endurance
6|Black pudding|Fighter|Imp unarmed strike, Power attack
7|Black pudding|First of the Forest|AC bonus, Fast move
8|Black pudding|Warlock|Spiderwalk, Eldritch blast
9|Black pudding|Warlock|Baleful utterance, Fiendish legacy (teleport), Detect magic
10|Black pudding|Warlock
11|FOTF|Warlock|Miasmic cloud, Imp uncanny dodge
12|FOTF|Warlock|Steadfast determination, Scent
13|Ranger|Warlock|Flee the Scene, Favored enemy: human, Track
14|Ranger|Warlock|
15|Ranger|Warlock|Walk unseen, Fiendish resilience, Improved grapple
16|Ranger|Warlock|Animal companion: vulture
17|Ranger|Warlock|Eldritch Chain, Favored enemy: human and dwarf
18|Ranger|Warlock|Nightmares made Real, Ability focus: dissolve
19|Ranger|Warlock|Woodland stride
20|Ranger|Warlock|Vitriolic blast, Fiendish resilience 2
[/table]

Offense: The Proof's chief danger is that it dissolves anything and everything coming near (including trees - like I said, the druid wasn't too keen on books - although arguably Woodland Stride alleviates this). The saving throw against that is DC 34, or 36 while it's raging. It also has improved two-weapon fighting, for some reason.

Defense: It gets its strong constitution modifier to will saves and armor class. Despite lack of sensory skills, the Proof has pretty keen senses, through blindsight, detect magic, and darkvision. Its main defense consists of the fact that any piercing or slashing weapon will split it into two puddings, one of which will teleport away and use its fiendish resilience to heal up again. Also, it is capable of summoning enough monsters to deal piercing damage to itself.

In other words, unless stopped by a band of valiant heroes, the creature can grow exponentially and pretty much succeed at wiping out civilization. Well, except for the parts made out of stone.

However, the Proof isn't quite that one-sided. It is also quite capable of feeding the entire world, or at least the uncivilized parts, such as the beautiful forests. It does this by splitting, as above, and having one of its split forms Eldritch Blast itself to death. As everybody knows, black puddings are very nutritious, and high in proteins.

Weaknesses: Poor reflex save, combined with the fact that it's not all that bright.

Equipment: At some point it's dissolved a Manual of Bodily Health (yes, this thing has enough skill points left to become literate, through eating books mostly). Also, it's somehow carrying a re-slotted Amulet of Health. Which is made out of stone. I'm not really sure what other equipment an ooze would want.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-01, 08:03 PM
How do the level based feats work when you have racial hit die? What about stat bumps?

I totally want that Black Pudding for dinner. Yum yum.

Nermy
2008-04-01, 08:36 PM
Name: Tainted Sahuagin Battle Master
Build: Fetch Mutated Sahuagin LA 8 / Swashbuckler 6 / Rogue 6 // Sahuagin 2 / Ranger 12 / Scout 6
Starting Ability Scores without Adjustments: Str 9 Dex 16 Con 17 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 8
Starting Ability Scores: Str 11 Dex 20 Con 17 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8
Final Ability Scores: Str 11 Dex 24 Con 18 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 9
Power Break: Level 15 and 18 when Swift Hunter and Daring Outlaw are gained respectively, but still viable before then.

{table]Level | Classes | Feat | Bonus Feat(s) | Abilities
Fetch Mutated Sahuagin | | | Multiattack | Mutated Sahuagin Traits, Fetch Traits
1 | LA 1 // Sahuagin 1 | Multi-Weapon Fighting | |
2 | LA 2 // Sahuagin 2 | | |
3 | LA 3 // Ranger 1 | Improved Unarmed Strike | Track | 1st favored enemy, Wild Empathy
4 | LA 4 // Moon Warded Ranger 2 | | | Armor of the Senses
5 | LA 5 // Ranger 3 | | Endurance |
6 | LA 6 // Ranger 4 | Travel Devotion | | Animal Companion, Spellcasting
7 | LA 7 // Ranger 5 | | | 2nd Favored Enemy
8 | LA 8 // Moon Warded Ranger 6 | | | Skin of the Moon
9 | Swashbuckler 1 // Scout 1 |Improved Multi-Weapon Fighting | Weapon Finesse | Skirmish +1d6, Trapfinding
10 | Rogue 1 // Ranger 7 | | | Sneak Attack +1d6, Woodland Stride
11 | Swashbuckler 2 // Scout 2 | | | Grace +1, Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge
12 | Rogue 2 // Ranger 8 | Travel Devotion | | Evasion, Swift Tracker
13 | Swashbuckler 3 // Scout 3 | | | Insightful Strike, Fast Movement, Skirmish +1d6 +1AC, Trackless Step
14 | Rogue 3 // Ranger 9 | | | Sneak Attack +2d6, Penetrating Strike
15 | Swashbuckler 4 // Scout 4 | Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting | Swift Hunter | Skirmish +4d6 +3AC, 3rd Favored Enemy
16 | Rogue 4 // Ranger 10 | | |
17 | Swashbuckler 5 // Scout 5 | | | Dodge Bonus +1, Skirmish +4d6 +4AC, 4th Favored Enemy
18 | Rogue 5 // Ranger 11 |Daring Outlaw | | Sneak Attack +5d6, Indomitable Mind
19 | Swashbuckler 6 // Scout 6 | | | Grace +2, Flawless Stride, Sneak Attack +6d6, Skirmish +5d6 +4AC
20 | Rogue 6 // Ranger 12 | | |
[/table]

Overview

The mutated spawn that has occurred as a product of the impregnation of a Sahuagin by a ghost with the blessing of Sekolah. Trained in the art of stealth and combat, these individuals, though rare, are formidable opponents and strategists, using their mutation and ghostly heritage to their advantage in a fight.

Offense

The Tainted Sahuagin makes attempts to maximize the amount of attacks by using the variety of weapons it has available to it using the Multi-weapon line of feats. He will use a finessable weapon in each hand as well as using his unarmed strikes, armor spikes, and natural bite attack. These are further enhanced by his full base attack bonus.

These attacks are often supplemented by precision damage from the Swashbuckler's Intuitive Strike ability, the Rogue's Sneak Attack ability, and the Scout's Skirmish ability, as well as the Travel Devotion feat to position himself in combat.

His favored enemies include mostly enemies that are immune to Skirmish damage, so that he can harm them with his Swift Hunter feat, while relying on the Penetrating Strike alternative class feature to apply his Sneak Attack bonus.

Optimally, a Tainted Sahuagin Battle Master at level 20 can get 20 attacks in a full attack (4 primary hand, 3 second hand, 3 third hand, 3 fourth hand, 3 unarmed strike, 3 armor spikes, 1 bite).

Some individuals prefer to utilize a set of ghost touch weapons in order to use them while in ghost form.

Defense

Good fort saves, excellent reflex saves, and decent will saves. Armor class is good due to high dexterity and natural armor bonus, can also increase their will modifier to apply it to AC from Armor of the Senses. Fortification allows 50% of critical hits and precision damage to miss. Immune to energy drains, ability drain, ability damage, and ghost special attacks.

Can also use his ghost form ability to leave his body safely in an aquatic environment while his spirit takes care of tasks on land.

Weaknesses

Relatively low hp per level compared to other fighter classes. This is balanced by a high constitution modifier.

Biggest drawback is his Water Dependancy, only being able to survive 9 hours out of water at a time. Can be remedied by using his Ghost Form ability to travel on land.

Vulnerable to turn undead.

3 dead levels in a gestalt character is also kind of sub-optimal.

Sources:

Complete Adventurer: Scout class
Complete Champion: Travel Devotion feat
Complete Scoundrel: Daring Outlaw feat, Swift Hunter feat
Complete Warrior: Swashbuckler class
Dragon Magazine: Fetch template (#313), Moon-Warded Ranger substitution levels (#340)
Monster Manual: Mutated Sahuagin

Chronos
2008-04-01, 08:55 PM
Creatures without a Con score can't have regeneration, so you'll lose it when you get the Green Star capstone.

Ascension
2008-04-01, 09:16 PM
Where ya getting HiPS from, btw?

The Naztharune Rakshasas get the Shadowdancer-ish version of HiPS (they can hide as long as within 10 ft. of shadow) as part of their racial package. Pretty swanky! :smallbiggrin: In a competition like this they essentially render the Shadowdancer even more obsolete than it already is, because they essentially start as Rogue/Shadowdancers and go up from there.

With Spymaster to make her nigh undetectable when undercover and Shadow Hand Swordsage to give DEX to damage, WIS to AC, and nifty combat maneuvers, she becomes quite fun.

I think I've put together the answer to the "How to make a catgirl threatening" thread.

EDIT: By the way, I completely dumped STR, CON, and INT... racials alone pumped them to those numbers.

EDIT EDIT: I have now undumped INT to give better Assassin casting. At the same time, I realized original was built on 26 point buy. Mormo is better now.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-01, 09:19 PM
Dangit, I wanted to write up the Green Lantern as a Lantern Archon, but only 1 RHD. Epic fail...:smallfrown:

Oh wait!

The Green Lantern

Build:

Phrenic Will-O'Wisp LA +2/Warlock18//RHD9 + Pyrokeneticist10/Sorcerer1

Stats (before adaptation) Str 8 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 9 Wis 10 Cha 17

Stats (After adaptation) Str 1 Dex 34 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 24

SLA/PsLA's:
3/day—defensive precognition; 1/day—force screen
3/day—empty mind, mind thrust
1/day—body adjustment, brain lock
1/day—aversion, psionic blast
3/day—intellect fortress; 1/day—psychic crush
1/day—psionic dominate
1/day—energy current, tower of iron will
3/day—psionic teleport
1/day—fission
1/day—ultrablast

Fire Lash
Hands Afire
Bolt of Fire (10d6)
Weapon Afire, Greater
Nimbus
Heat Death
Conflagration

Warlock Invocations:

Eldrich Blast 8d6

Least:
Eldrich Spear
Baleful Utterance
See the Unseen

Lesser:
Eldrich Chain
Voracious Dispelling
Hellrime Blast

Greater:
Chilling Tentacles
Vitriolic Blast
Tenatious Plague

Dark:
Word of Changing
Dark Foresight


Innate abilities:

Immunity to Magic (Ex)
A will-o’-wisp is immune to most spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.

Natural Invisibility (Ex)
A startled or frightened will-o’-wisp can extinguish its glow, effectively becoming invisible as the spell.

Combat tactics:

He's got multiple ways of zapping you. Electricity, Fire, Acid (which bypasses SR), pure Eldrich Blast, Sonic with Baleful Utterance, about and Cold. He can also do negative levels to crowds with Chain Utterdark Blast.

With Natural Invisibility, he's a hard bugger to see, and effective even in an AMF. The complete immunity to magic doesn't hurt either.

It's hard to really hurt this guy. He's immune to most of Batman's tricks, by virtue of being immune to magic. It's going to be very hard to grapple with him when he's flying about, and no way to get him to stop.

He's a sniper par excellance, doing well what is mostly thought poor tactics: blasting.

mabriss lethe
2008-04-01, 09:51 PM
It's looking like the everyone loves warlocks thread! (me too, i wasn't even the first to go with the ogre mage/warlock either...baldercrap.) Almost finished with it so I'll post it anyway especialy since I'm going in a completely different direction with it.

Squash Monster
2008-04-01, 09:55 PM
I don't want to reveal what I'm making just yet, but I need a little bit of help.

I need prestige classes for a cleric//fighter grappler. However, I can't use any prestige classes that have skill requirements, and I can't use any that have feat requirements that are not fighter feats.

EDIT: oh, warhulk. Bwahaha.


EDIT EDIT - new question.

What happens if I apply a template that adds 2 intelligence to a creature with an intelligence of --?

Vortling
2008-04-01, 10:58 PM
Name: Reginleif
Build: Valkyrie Cleric of Fharlanghn 15//Bloodclaw Master 2/Swordsage 7
(Travel and Celerity Domains)
Starting Ability Scores: STR 14, DEX 16, CON 10, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 10
Modified Ability Scores: STR 28, DEX 34, CON 22, INT 12, WIS 20, CHA 16 (includes stat bumps)
Cheese Points: Not sure. Using DMM: Quicken and Valkyrie HD progress maneuvers. Probably 2.
Minimum Playable Level: ~12
Power Break: 15, for Shadow Blade

RHD//LA Weapon Finesse, {Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}
RHD//LA
RHD//LA Combat Reflexes
RHD//LA WIS +1
RHD//LA
RHD//Cleric 1 Quicken Spell
RHD//Cleric 2
RHD//Cleric 3 WIS +1
RHD//Cleric 4 DMM: Quicken Spell
RHD//Cleric 5
RHD//Cleric 6
Bloodclaw Master 1//Cleric 7 Extra Turning, WIS +1
Bloodclaw Master 2//Cleric 8
Swordsage 1//Cleric 9
Swordsage 2//Cleric 10 Shadow Blade
Swordsage 3//Cleric 11 DEX +1
Swordsage 4//Cleric 12
Swordsage 5//Cleric 13 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Swordsage 6//Cleric 14
Swordsage 7//Cleric 15 DEX +1

Offense 8th Level Cleric Spells, Perfect Two Weapon fighting adding STR, DEX, and WIS to damage, 9th level maneuvers

Defense 33 AC and 26 Touch AC with no equipment, Immune to cold, electriciy, fear, and sonic, DR 10/ Cold Iron, Uncanny Dodge, Flight 60 ft. (perfect), good saves

Weaknesses Low damage compared to Uberchargers and the like (only +26 +1d6 damage per hit unbuffed), no invisibility.

Squash Monster
2008-04-01, 11:19 PM
DISREGARD THIS ENTRY.
Left here because it's awesome. However, a different version that obeys silly things like "rules" is provided later in the thread. Use that.


"Name": That Damned Powercrab

The Idea: Everybody loves that damned crab. This one is a cleric! And a dragon!

The story: The offspring of a monstrous crab and a green dragon who's tastes we'll refrain from questioning, the That Damned Powercrab began its life in the manner of any monstrous crab. It found a suitably sized pool of water near a decent amount of traffic and ate everything that passed by. It generally flies out of its pool at its targets, but being a creature of pure instinct it doesn't know it's not walking. And That Damned Powercrab kept doing it, over and over again, for longer than a monstrous crab generally lives. Much longer: dragons live hundreds of times longer than crabs. Eventually the perfect mindless repetition of its task became so great that the act became supernaturally enforced: the crab is the perfect follower of its ideals, and has gained powers as an ideal-following cleric. The crab's ideals, by the way, are "wait for food, grab food, bring food back, eat it" -- not that it is smart enough to know these concepts.

Race: Half-Dragon (green) Monstrous Crab

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features
1 | Half Dragon LA | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 0 | d10 |
2 | Half Dragon LA | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 1 | d10 |
3 | Half Dragon LA | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 2 | d10 |
4 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 3 | d10 | turn undead, spellcasting
5 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 3 | d10 |
6 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 4 | d10 |
7 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 5 | d10 |
8 | Cleric | Fighter | 6/1 | d10 | bonus fighter feat
9 | Cleric | Fighter | 7/2 | d10 | bonus fighter feat
10 | Cleric | War Hulk| 8/3 | d12 | No time to think, ability boost (Str +2)
11 | Cleric | War Hulk | 8/3 | d12 | Great swing, ability boost (Str +2)
12 | Cleric | War Hulk | 9/4 | d12 | Mighty rock throwing, ability boost (Str +2)
13 | Cleric | War Hulk | 10/5 | d12 | Mighty swing, ability boost (Str +2)
14 | Cleric | War Hulk | 11/6/1 | d12 | Ability boost, ability boost (Str +2)
15 | Cleric | War Hulk | 11/6/1 | d12 | Sweeping boulder, ability boost (Str +2)
16 | Cleric | War Hulk | 12/7/2 | d12 | Ability boost (Str +2)
17 | Cleric | War Hulk | 13/8/3 | d12 | Massive sweeping boulder, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
18 | Cleric | War Hulk | 14/9/4 | d12 | ability boost (Str +2), Toughness
19 | Cleric | Barbarian | 15/10/5 | d12 | fast movement, rage 1/day
20 | Cleric | Barbarian | 16/11/6/1 | d12 | uncanny dodge
[/table]

Expected HP:
9d10 + 11d12 + 6 + 160 = 287 average

Casts as:
17th level Cleric (Travel and Competition domains)

Feats:
(Having an intelligence score of -- means no natural feats)
8th: Power Attack
9th: Cleave

Base Stats:
Racial modifiers: Str +20, Dex +4, Con +12, Int --, Cha -6
STR: 32
DEX: 18
CON: 22
WIS: 18
INT: --
CHA: 2
Put your bonuses into Con, except the one you put in Wis.
Note that you get +2 strength every level from 10 to 18.
Final stats:
STR: 50
DEX: 18
CON: 26
WIS: 19
INT: --
CHA: 2

Monster stats:
Large Dragon (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 9d10 + 11d12 + 6 + 160 (287 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 50 ft. Swim 30 ft. Fly 100 ft.
Armor Class: 25 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +12 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 21
Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+44
Attack: Claw +36 melee (1d6+27)
Full Attack: 2 claws +36 melee (1d6+27) and bite +31 melee (1d8+27) and 3 iterative claw attacks
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d8+27, improved grab, powerful claws, breath weapon
Special Qualities: Amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., vermin traits, low light vision, immune to sleep and paralysis effects, immune to acid
Saves: Fort +25, Ref +10, Will +15
Abilities: Str 50, Dex 18, Con 26, Int --, Wis 19, Cha 2
Skills: --
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave

Breath weapon: 6d8 acid, once per day. 30ft cone. Reflex DC 28 for half

Strengths:
Strength. It's pretty ridiculous.
Grapple. It's even more ridiculous.
Spells. Yeah, this is silly.
Immunities. As a draconic vermin with an intelligence of --, you get the following immunities: charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, sleep, paralysis, acid, and morale effects

Weaknesses:
No brains.
No feats.
No skills.

How it works:
That damned Powercrab behaves exactly as the original damned crab, but with a little bit of tweeking. Firstly, the fact that it has a fly speed means that it will jump out of its pool and snatch victims out of the air. Secondly, the crab can cast spells. Generally, it will cast a full set of buff spells as appropriate for its current level before it makes its strike. Being still under the water, this generally goes unnoticed. Typical spells are Divine Power, Bull's Strength, and Righteous Might.

Items:
While its worshippers have attempted to gift it with pariapts of wisdom and similar goods, none of them have succesfully put one on That Damned Powercrab without first being split in two and eaten. Which they may consider a great honor, but at least the thing doesn't use any items.

Playability:
Available at its level 7, which is like CR 5 or something. Stats provided are for level 20, but being a gigantic demon crab is pretty simple, and the build works at all levels.

Ascension
2008-04-01, 11:23 PM
Uhh... actually, I think you need an INT 4 at minimum to advance by class instead of by hit dice. So, no offense, but I think your crab is too stupid to be a cleric.

Squash Monster
2008-04-01, 11:27 PM
Aww, such a shame.

Well, it might be salvageable depending on what -- +2 is.

Talic
2008-04-02, 12:11 AM
You know what... I'm dumb. Level 10 Disciple of Thyrm gets Immunity to Fire anyway. Why am I bothering with Half-Red Dragon? I need to find another template!

Do a different half dragon. Get immunity to electricity or acid. Heh.

Chronos
2008-04-02, 12:36 AM
I must say, though, that I love the idea of a cleric of the ideals of "wait for food, grab food, bring food back, eat it". Rules or no, I'd allow it in a game, if I could figure out what it's doing there... It's too boring to play for a PC, and too powerful for a monster.

dspeyer
2008-04-02, 12:57 AM
Eleanor, guardian of wisdom
Race: Young Silver Dragon
Build: RHD 13 / Justiciar 7 // LA 5 / cleric of Dhelleb 5 / contemplative 7 / inquisitor 3
Playable from: 14
Stats: STR: 24 DEX: 14 CON: 18 INT: 16 WIS: 22 CHA: 18
Power break: not really, but definitely picks up strength faster at the higher levels

Eleanor spends most of her time alternate-formed into a human or elf, and presents herself as a simple contemplative cleric, which, in her heart, she is. But the church of Dhelleb is vulnerable: it gathers great libraries and makes insufficient checks on who accesses them. Corruption is endemic, and can endanger the world. So she hunts it down. She looks harmless, bearing neither weapons nor armor, and carrying herself with the unworldly air of a contemplative. It's generally some time before her enemies realize she's spying on them. When they do, they generally attempt to slay her in melee, sometimes using an anti-magic field to negate what they think are her only powers. The look on their faces when the very field they thought would protect them turns their quarry into a dragon is priceless. Still, Eleanor prefers not to kill, so she makes frequent use of nonlethal attacks (at no penalty, thanks to justiciar) and her paralysing breath (amplified by a few feats). Also, while she herself is devoted to Dhelleb, she shares her secret with various senior clerics she finds trustworthy, and assists them whenever they suspect trouble in their own churches.

Ascension
2008-04-02, 01:17 AM
I realized while reexamining my build that other than additional Sneak Attack and Forgery as a class skill, Rogue isn't giving Mormo a single thing she doesn't already have in abundance (geez, if all those evasions and uncanny dodges stacked...), so I'm shifting the Rogue levels to Assassin levels.

Also, Assassin 8 gives her the HiPS ability she's already got, so I might shift her 20th level to a Thief-Acrobat dip for Kip Up, Fast Acrobatics, and Steady Step.

Or I might boost her INT to let her Dim Door at 20th. Not that she doesn't already have teleportation abilities.

Hmm... Choices...

EDIT: Forget 20th, she gets Greater Invisibility and Dim Door at 19th now. She can't cast more than one a day until 20th, but she shouldn't need the second if she casts the first, or vice versa. Also, in the process of undumping INT to give her better Assassin casting, I discovered I had accidentally used a 26 point buy instead of 28. She's much better now.

Full level 20 stats and lists of both Maneuvers and Spells tomorrow.

Sleep tonight.

Oh, and I didn't take Craven because I figured on top of my extant SA cheese there'd be extra cheddar points for that.

Chibiqueso
2008-04-02, 02:16 AM
A slightly mad and intensely cruel Azer who was infested by corruption from the far realm, Wrath travels the world, more monstrous than his birth could ever indicate. He hunts all those he considers weak, and his merciless ambushes have laid entire communities to rest.

Wrath

CE Azer Half-Farspawn Sorcerer // Totemist
HD 2d8+6d4+12d8+200+12= 284 HP AC = 27 (+4 Dex, +9 Nat, +4 AC)

RHD//LA
RHD//LA
Sor1//LA
Sor2//LA
Sor3//LA
Sor4//LA
Sor5//LA
Sor6//LA
Sor7//Totemist1
Sor8//Totemist2s
Sor9//Totemist3
Sor10//Totemist4
Sor11//Totemist5
Sor12//Totemist6
Sor13//Totemist7
Sor14//Totemist8
Sor15//Totemist9
Sor16//Totemist10
Sor17//Totemist11
Sor18//Totemist12
Claw +16 1d4+15, 3 at +14 1d4+12 Bite +11 1d6+13 2 Tentacles +9 1d4+7 All natural attacks count as magic weapons for damage reduction. Also every attack has 1 point of fire damage added.
Str 22 Dex 18 Con 30 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 26
Spells 1 (8/Day) Mage Armor, Englarge Person, True Strike, Fist of Stone, Expeditious Retreat, Protection From Evil
2 (8/day) Shatter, False Life, Mirror Image, Wraith Strike, Web
3 (8/Day) Haste, Displacement, Blink, Slow
4 (8/Day) Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Stoneskin, Black Tentacles
5 (7/day) Improved Blink, Feeblemind, Wall of Stone, Overland Flight
6 (7/Day) Globe of Invulnerability, Acid Fog, Tensers Transformation
7 (7/Day) Waves of Exhaustion, Insanity, Forcecage
8 (6/Day) Mind Blank, Iron Body
9 (3/Day) Meteor Swarm
Spellikes: Blur 3/day, Touch of Idiocy 1/day, Stinking Cloud 1/day, Blink 3/day, Greater Invisibility 1/day, Telekinesis 1/day, Ethereal Jaunt 3/day, Scintillating pattern 1/day, Summon Monster IX (pseudonatural animals and vermin only) 1/day, Implosion 1/day
60 Foot blindsight, DR 10/Magic, Alternate shape that gives him two more tentacle attacks, and soulmelds stay shaped, and becomes amorphous Weak to cold, immune to fire.
Feats: Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Bonus Essentia, Double Chakra (Totem), Arcane Strike, Multiattack, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity

Soulmelds Shaped: Girallon Arms (totem/arms) (5 Essentia) Worg Pelt (totem) (2 Essentia) Dread Carapace (4 Essentia) Phase Cloak Unicorn Horn Totem Avatar

Basic Strategy of this guy is to get selfbuffs up at the start of the day. Use persist spell on wraithstrike so the insane number of natural attacks are touch. Most of his high end spell slots, and indeed, most of his spell slots, exist for Arcane Strike. You end up with this total madman who hunts anyone and everyone, and is a mass of horrifying tentacles and other bits. With a Tarrasque shell, which is the important part.

Strengths: Ridiculous number of attacks with Arcane strike. Persisted Wraithstrike means those attacks often hit.

Weaknesses: lackluster AC

(.I'm AFB [In a sense that someone else is borrowing them] of many of my books, and can't remember if a belt of magnificence +6 is 200000 or even 3.5)

Talic
2008-04-02, 02:27 AM
I realized while reexamining my build that other than additional Sneak Attack and Forgery as a class skill, Rogue isn't giving Mormo a single thing she doesn't already have in abundance (geez, if all those evasions and uncanny dodges stacked...), so I'm shifting the Rogue levels to Assassin levels.

Also, Assassin 8 gives her the HiPS ability she's already got, so I might shift her 20th level to a Thief-Acrobat dip for Kip Up, Fast Acrobatics, and Steady Step.

Or I might boost her INT to let her Dim Door at 20th. Not that she doesn't already have teleportation abilities.

Hmm... Choices...

EDIT: Forget 20th, she gets Greater Invisibility and Dim Door at 19th now. She can't cast more than one a day until 20th, but she shouldn't need the second if she casts the first, or vice versa. Also, in the process of undumping INT to give her better Assassin casting, I discovered I had accidentally used a 26 point buy instead of 28. She's much better now.

Full level 20 stats and lists of both Maneuvers and Spells tomorrow.

Sleep tonight.

Oh, and I didn't take Craven because I figured on top of my extant SA cheese there'd be extra cheddar points for that.

Nice. You might want to think about slipping in a level of shadowdancer, or using the rogue variant that gets ranger HiPS at level 10. Imp Invis is good, but at level 20, the standard assumption is that most things that are CR appropriate will be able to bypass it somehow. I like the ranger HiPS (that can be gotten faster by rogue, lol) because it's EX. Less reliance on magic is always good. Also, Darkstalker is a feat that you should never be without as a sneaky type.

Ever. Negates Blindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense, and Scent, 4 abilities that will destroy the build faster than you can say Wand of Nerfing.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-02, 04:51 AM
Also, just for laughs, consider the Half-Dragon Assassin Vine.

It's a firebreathing plant. With wings.

Duke of URL
2008-04-02, 07:00 AM
Any thoughts on extrapolating stat bonuses and reassigning feats from HD?

As long as the monster has a listed level adjustment, go for it. Racial bonus feats can't be changed, however.


How do the level based feats work when you have racial hit die? What about stat bumps?

Treat RHD as class levels for all intents and purposes.


What happens if I apply a template that adds 2 intelligence to a creature with an intelligence of --?

I believe by RAW the creature still has no intelligence. A score of "-" is not the same as a score of "0".

SamTheCleric
2008-04-02, 07:25 AM
Do a different half dragon. Get immunity to electricity or acid. Heh.

I made him a Half-Blue dragon. :)

Kurald Galain
2008-04-02, 07:33 AM
I made him a Half-Blue dragon. :)

How about a half-blue-dragon red dragon? :smallwink:

SamTheCleric
2008-04-02, 07:36 AM
How about a half-blue-dragon red dragon? :smallwink:

A purple dragon! We're all doomed! :smallcool:

Crazy Scot
2008-04-02, 09:18 AM
What is the ruling if we wish to add a template that doesn't have a +x LA, but has a +x to CR? (i.e. "Monster of Legend" from the Monster Manual II - CR: base creature +2) It seems that this was meant for creatures and not PCs (thus no LA), but this challenge is for creatures so a ruling would be nice. So would the CR be the same as LA?

Additionally, if you have a template which affects CR based upon the HD of the creature what would the ruling be? (i.e. "Spellwarped" from the Monster Manual III - As the HD go up, the CR goes up) So would you base the LA on the base creature (racial HD), or their overall HD total from class levels as well (eventually 20HD)? Would it change as the monster progressed, or would you apply it to when the template is added (at character creation for this challenge)?

Just some clarification desired so I can know what I would need to do to finish my build.

Also, as a side note, I don't remember anything being said about having more than one entry in the challenge. Is there anything against creating more than one?

Thanks for the help.

Talic
2008-04-02, 09:24 AM
Entry Con Deus

Name: The Shadow
Build: Half-Fiendish Manticore Rogue 13, Fighter 1 // Ninja 13, Shadowdancer 1
Starting Ability Scores: STR 28, DEX 26, CON 20, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 8
Cheese Points: 1 (dip into shadowdancer)
Minimum Playable Level: 6
Power Break: 7, 19

L1 RHD // RLA
L2 RHD // RLA
L3 RHD // RLA
L4 RHD // TLA
L5 RHD // TLA
L6 RHD // TLA
L7 Rog 1 // Ninja 1
L8 Rog 2 // Ninja 2
L9 Rog 3 // Ninja 3
L10 Rog 4 // Ninja 4
L11 Rog 5 // Ninja 5
L12 Rog 6 // Ninja 6
L13 Rog 7 // Ninja 7
L14 Rog 8 // Ninja 8
L15 Rog 9 // Ninja 9
L16:Rog 10 // Ninja 10
L17:Rog 11 // Ninja 11
L18:Rog 12 // Ninja 12
L19:Rog 13 // Shd1
L20:Fi 1 // Ninja 13

Offense: Spikes. 6 of them, as a single standard action, with a buttload of sneak attack damage.

Defense: Don't be seen (+49 hide), HiPS (ex) in nat surroundings, HiPS (Su) near shadows, can turn invis and/or ethereal.

Weaknesses: Less than Ideal HP, Relatively Low AC for gestalt.

2 claws (2d4+str) and bite (1d8 + 1/2 str) or 6 spikes (2d6+ 1/2 str/ 17-20)

NA +6
Spec Att: Spikes
SQ: Darkvis 60, Low Light Vis, Scent, Immune Poison, Res acid 10, cold 10, elect 10, fire 10, DR 5/magic, nat wpns = magic for dr, SR 16
SLA: Darkness 3/day, desecrate 1/day, unholy blight 1/day

Feats: Flyby Attack, Multiattack, Track, Weapon Focus (spikes), Imp Crit (spikes), Imp Natural Attack (spikes), Skill focus (hide), Darkstalker, Shape Soulmeld (Kruthik Claws)

+4 Racial Spot
BAB +6
Good Fort/Ref
Skills 8+int

Padded Barding +1, Greater Silent Moves, Greater shadow

Rogue levels use Wilderness Rogue Variant from Unearthed Arcana, and select Camoflauge and HiPS as rogue abilities.

Hide modifier +23 (Rank) + 3 (Skill Focus) +4 (Kruthik Claws) + 8 (Dex) -4 (Size) = +34 + 15 (armor) = +49

Idea: Sneak to within 30 feet. Let loose, as a standard action, 6 spikes into one opponent. Each spike be at a +24 to hit, against a flat footed foe, and will deal 2d6+7d6(sneak) +7d6(sudden) +4.

Total damage: 96D6 + 24, if all hit. Threaten on a 17-20.

Then, use ninja ability to go ethereal, if the opponent survives the average hit of 360 damage.

EDIT: Put stat boosts as you like them, but all feats are planned out.

EDIT EDIT: Oh, and for REAL fun... Give the other party rogue mounted combat.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-02, 09:36 AM
Yes, but does he have a way to cast Clairvoyance... because.. you know... the Shadow KNOWS

:smalltongue:

Talic
2008-04-02, 09:53 AM
Yes, but does he have a way to cast Clairvoyance... because.. you know... the Shadow KNOWS

:smalltongue:

I was thinking more, "The SHADOW!"
(The shadow!)
*The shadow!*

I loved the gamers.

Duke of URL
2008-04-02, 09:57 AM
What is the ruling if we wish to add a template that doesn't have a +x LA, but has a +x to CR? (i.e. "Monster of Legend" from the Monster Manual II - CR: base creature +2) It seems that this was meant for creatures and not PCs (thus no LA), but this challenge is for creatures so a ruling would be nice. So would the CR be the same as LA?

In one of the few cases I'll ever make a definitive ruling, the answer is no, the restriction in the general guidelines hold -- the creature must have a listed level adjustment, precisely for the types of reasons your follow-up questions encompass.


Also, as a side note, I don't remember anything being said about having more than one entry in the challenge. Is there anything against creating more than one?

There is no limit as to the number of entries. If you're the competitive type, bear in mind that they will compete against each other.

Talic
2008-04-02, 11:01 AM
How about a half-blue-dragon red dragon? :smallwink:

As long as he's not a half White dragon red dragon.

Crazy Scot
2008-04-02, 11:46 AM
In one of the few cases I'll ever make a definitive ruling, the answer is no, the restriction in the general guidelines hold -- the creature must have a listed level adjustment, precisely for the types of reasons your follow-up questions encompass.

I understand about the rule you put up about the race requiring a LA, but I didn't see any restrictions listed about the template. That is why I asked.

After I posted my questions I took another look at the DMG, and it seems that the table on the bottom of page 38 would suggest that a CR increase would be the direct equivalent of a LA increase of the same quantity, but since this is your challenge to the forum, I guess your answer still stands. Thanks for clarifying.

Crazy Scot
2008-04-02, 11:52 AM
I was thinking more, "The SHADOW!"
(The shadow!)
*The shadow!*

I loved the gamers.

I loved that movie too, but unfortunately I was out of state when my friends were making it so I couldn't be in it.

As for a bit of useless trivia: the movie was written and directed by my best friend in high school (Matt Vancil, aka the big guy who gets "backstabbed" in the bar scene) who is now working on films in California, having just finished his master's degree in films (go figure).

Draz74
2008-04-02, 11:57 AM
"Instead of a Dark Lord, you would have a queen, not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Tempestuous as the sea, and stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me and despair!"
- Galadriel
The Fellowship of the Ring

Name: Galadriel of Mordor
Build: Alu-Demon Nymph Bard/Mindbender/Sublime Chord/Fatespinner//Crusader/Cleric/Marshal
Starting Ability Scores: STR 14, DEX 20, CON 18, INT 16, WIS 16, CHA 34
Cheese Points: 2 (Marshal dip, Cleric dip)
Minimum Playable Level: 11
Power Break: Level 12 (Turn Undead and Divine Might feat)

Level 1: Fey Hit Die // LA
Level 2: Fey Hit Die // LA
Level 3: Fey Hit Die // LA
Level 4: Fey Hit Die // LA
Level 5: Fey Hit Die // LA
Level 6: Fey Hit Die // LA
Level 7: Bard 1 // LA
Level 8: Bard 2 // LA
Level 9: Bard 3 // LA
Level 10: Bard 4 // LA
Level 11: Bard 5 // LA
Level 12: Mindbender 1 // Cleric 1 - {domains: Charm, Undeath}
Level 13: Bard 6 // Crusader 1
Level 14: Sublime Chord 1 // Marshal 1
Level 15: Fatespinner 1 // Crusader 2
Level 16: Fatespinner 2 // Crusader 3
Level 17: Fatespinner 3 // Crusader 4
Level 18: Fatespinner 4 // Crusader 5
Level 19: Sublime Chord 2 // Crusader 6
Level 20: Sublime Chord 3 // Crusader 7

Feats:
Level 1: Ability Focus (Stunning Glance)
Level 3: Power Attack
Level 6: Flyby Attack
Level 9: Snowflake Wardance
Level 12: Divine Might
Level 12: (Undeath Domain) Extra Turning
Level 14: (Marshal) Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Level 15: Extra Granted Maneuver
Level 18: Extra Music

Spell-Like Abilities:
Level 1: Charm Person 3/day
Level 3: Detect Thoughts 3/day
Level 5: Suggestion 3/day
Level 7: Polymorph 3/day, humanoid forms only
Level 9: Dimension Door 2/day, including Nymph SLA
Level 11: Blasphemy 1/day
Level 13: Unholy Aura 3/day, Unhallow 1/day
Level 15: Horrid Wilting 1/day
Level 17: Summon Monster IX 1/day, fiends only
Level 19: Destruction 1/day

Noteworthy Final Statistics:
BAB +15
Charisma 48 (+19) - can be boosted to 52 briefly by Charm domain power

Offense:
Stunning Glance [Su]: As a standard action, Galadriel can stun a creature within 30 feet with a look. The target creature must succeed on a DC 34 Fortitude save or be stunned for 2d4 rounds. Note, this isn't designated [Mind-Affecting] or [Compulsion] or anything, so pretty much anything living is vulnerable to it.

None of Galadriel's Bard/Sublime Chord spells are single-target save-or-suck spells. That role is adequately filled by her Stunning Glance ability and Crusader strikes.

Instead, Sublime Chord spells are focused on multi-target save or suck spells and battlefield control spells that will let Galadriel isolate one opponent to fight at a time. After stunning a lone opponent, she will tear it apart with melee attacks, using Snowflake Wardance and Divine Might to gain her Charisma bonus to attacks and damage as well as using Crusader strikes.

Galadriel loves very high Save DC's, based on her Charisma bonus. Fatespinner also helps make sure her opponents don't make their saves. This is also why she picks up Castigating Strike at Level 20. Spell Resistance isn't much of a concern, since her Marshal level gives her +19 to Caster Level checks to overcome SR (and its an aura, in case her allies want to do the same!).

At high levels, she will pick up a Bow of Song so she can get full attacks from a distance and add twice her Charisma bonus to damage. (Still adds Charisma bonus once to attacks.) Yes, Divine Might works with ranged attacks by RAW, as counter-intuitive as it seems.

Defense:
Unearthly Grace: Galadriel has a +19 bonus to all saves and a +19 deflection bonus to AC based on her Charisma. Not that any saves except Fortitude were really in any danger of ever failing anyway.

At high levels, with stat-enhancing items and AC-enhancing items (including a Monk's Belt) and a (quickened) Barkskin spell, she can have an AC of at least 58.

Galadriel has Spell Resistance of 10+her level, Damage Reduction 10/(cold iron and magic), and Resist 10 Acid/Electricity/Cold/Fire.

Oh yeah, and Crusader class features/healing abilities too.

If she's out of Crusader abilities that heal and isn't able to make a full attack, she can use her Negative Energy Touch attack. It only does 1d6+19 damage (or 1d6+38 with Divine Might), but half that damage gets healed for Galadriel.

General Utility:
Galadriel has wings and can fly, and can also use Dimension Door 2/day as spell-like abilities.

She casts spells as a Level 14 Wizard/Bard Hybrid, a Level 7 Druid, and a Level 1 Cleric. That's a pretty wide selection of spells to deal with various problems. She gets 40 spells per day from high Charisma alone (wow!).

She has 99 skill points from her racial hit dice alone. That and her social-combat SLA's (Charm, Suggestion, Detect Thoughts) make her pretty versatile in noncombat situations.

Oh, yeah. She doesn't concentrate on Diplomancing or UMD because she doesn't want the cheese points ... but she's exceptionally competent at both of these skills anyway.

Weaknesses:
Only 7th-level spells, and no ability to quicken spells.

Poor Hit Dice and Fortitude saves until she starts taking Crusader levels.

Only 3 attacks on a full attack (plus whatever she can get from other sources, such as Haste).

Variants:
If you can convince your DM that the Divine Bard can cast spells that are both arcane and divine, you can get Divine Metamagic (Persist) and pull off some awesome persistent buffing on your bard magic. I'd even say this form of the build can drop Crusader levels and just dip into a lot more classes for easy frontloaded abilities.

Or you can make the build even more spellcasting-focused. Drop Flyby Attack, Extra Granted Maneuver, and Extra Music in favor of Quicken Spell, Arcane Disciple, and Rapid Metamagic. This form of the build would have an additional Power Break at Level 18 when it finally becomes able to apply the Quicken feat to its bard/SC casting. (Before that, all you can quicken are Druid Orisons.) The major upshot of this build is the overpowered spells you can pick up through a cleric domain -- the first example that really comes to mind is Divine Power.

Another variant idea is to take Motivate Dexterity instead of Determined Caster and become a decent skill monkey, with really good Hide/Move Silently/Open Lock/Sleight of Hand/Tumble checks.

Non-Core Sources:
The Alu-Demon template is from Dragon Magazine, #355 (or Crystal Keep).
Sublime Chord and Fatespinner are from Complete Arcane.
Crusader, Extra Granted Maneuver, and Castigating Strike are from Tome of Battle.
Marshal is from the Miniatures Handbook (or online).
Charm Domain is from Player's Guide to Faerun or Eberron Campaign Setting (or Crystal Keep).
Undeath Domain is from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (or Crystal Keep).
Snowflake Wardance is from Frostburn.
Divine Might is from Deities & Demigods (or the SRD).
Bow of Song is from Magic Item Compendium.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-02, 12:30 PM
I say you switch out one of those bard levels for a level in Mindbender. Telepathy at will out to 100'. She was always in everyone's head... :)

Talic
2008-04-02, 01:13 PM
So, which ring are you going to give her? For thematics, she should only have 1.

Duke of URL
2008-04-02, 01:15 PM
"Instead of a Dark Lord, you would have a queen, not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Tempestuous as the sea, and stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me and despair!

Name: Galadriel of Mordor

I may have to create a "literary reference" prize category, just for this one. Nice job using the idea from the book there!

Draz74
2008-04-02, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the comments already.

@SamTheCleric: You're absolutely right. I can't believe I didn't think of that. It costs practically nothing, gives her a little bit more power, and is great for the flavor.

@Talic: I suppose, just for flavor, she should get a Ring of Water Command (Nenya) and a Ring of Invisibility (The One Ring, whose other powers are represented by all her various abilities and her insane Charisma) at high levels.

@Duke of URL: Thanks! Yeah ... I just started thinking about 48 Charisma, and the phrase "beautiful and terrible as the dawn" just came to mind.

Duke of URL
2008-04-02, 02:51 PM
Leftover Resources:
I still have one Minor Aura from her Marshal level that will let her add +19 to some kind of check. I'm taking suggestions on what this should be to hedge up Galadriel's weaknesses as well as possible.

I always like determined caster, as a +19 to get around spell resistance pretty much will eliminate SR for anything that isn't infinite.

Talic
2008-04-02, 03:25 PM
Time for a literary entry, then. Alright then.

"Aside from those more obvious considerations touching Moby ****, which could not but occasionally awaken in any man's soul some alarm, there was another thought, or rather vague, nameless horror concerning him, which at times by its intensity completely overpowered all the rest; and yet so mystical and well nigh ineffable was it, that I almost despair of putting it in a comprehensible form. It was the whiteness of the whale that above all things appalled me."

Mountain Troll Lycanthrope(natural) - Cachalot Whale

Name: The Great White Whale
Build: It's a Whale. With, like, 3 class levels.
Starting Ability Scores: Str: 66, Dex 12, Con 50, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 6
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 18
Power Break: Umm, 18-20?

1: Troll // Troll LA
2: Troll // Troll LA
3: Troll // Troll LA
4: Troll // Troll LA
5: Troll // Troll LA
6: Troll // Whale
7: Troll // Whale
8: Troll // Whale
9: Troll // Whale
10:Troll // Whale
11:Troll // Whale
12:Troll // Whale
13:Troll // Whale
14:Troll // Whale
15:Troll // Whale
16:LLA // Whale
17:LLA // Whale
18:LLA // Warshaper 1
19:Fi 1 // Warshaper 2
20:Fi 2 // Warshaper 3

Lycanthrope:
Racial HD 18D8 + 2D10 + 440 (532)
AC +24 Nat
BAB: +15
SA: Knockdown
SQ: Alternate Form, Lycanthropic Empathy, Curse of Lycanthropy, DR 10/silver Blindsight 120 ft, hold Breath, LLV, Darkvis 90, Fast Healing 9, Scent, Stability, Morphic Weapons, Morphic Body, Morphic Reach, Morphic Immunities
Skills: +8 to hide in mountains (heh)

Attack: Bite +50 (4d8+35), Tail Slap +45 (2d6+17)
Swim 40

Items Include Book +5 Str, Book +4 Con, All Stat boosts into Str. Final Stats are: Str 76, Dex 12, Con 54.

Feats will include Power attack, Improved Sunder (for boats), Awesome Blow, Improved Natural Attack (Tail), Leap Attack (Breaching). Flavor what's left to taste.

Call Me Ishmael, sucka.

EDIT: DARN YOU, THREAD FILTER, for spoiling a quote from a literary masterpiece!

SamTheCleric
2008-04-02, 03:30 PM
Hmmm. A literary entry you say... hmm.

Sorcerer Mickey? No, too easy...

Draz74
2008-04-02, 03:34 PM
Feats will include Power attack, Improved Sunder (for boats), Awesome Blow, Improved Natural Attack (Tail), Leap Attack (Breaching). Flavor what's left to taste.

I suggest the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature in place of the Fighter Level 2 Bonus Feat.

Though maybe you don't actually need it when you have Awesome Blow.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-02, 04:22 PM
Moby what? :smallbiggrin:

Talic
2008-04-02, 04:45 PM
Moby what? :smallbiggrin:

I am reminded of the Human Ton and Handy...

READ A BOOK!

LOL

Ascension
2008-04-02, 04:45 PM
Nice. You might want to think about slipping in a level of shadowdancer, or using the rogue variant that gets ranger HiPS at level 10.

You missed where I said twice that the Naztharune Rakshasa gets the Shadowdancer form of HiPS as a racial ability, and what's more, the 8th level of Assassin gives it to me again. Now, if I could pick up the ranger version too, that'd be ideal, but I don't want to bother with ranger levels.

I mentioned the invisibility because she has it, not because she's dependent on it.


Also, Darkstalker is a feat that you should never be without as a sneaky type.

Where is Darkstalker? What does it do?

Talic
2008-04-02, 04:48 PM
You missed where I said twice that the Naztharune Rakshasa gets the Shadowdancer form of HiPS as a racial ability, and what's more, the 8th level of Assassin gives it to me again. Now, if I could pick up the ranger version too, that'd be ideal, but I don't want to bother with ranger levels.



Where is Darkstalker? What does it do?

The ranger version is EX, which makes it good. It's also available as a Wilderness Rogue, at which point you can pick up Camoflauge as a rogue special ability, and, if you have camoflauge, you can pick up Hide in Plain Sight, as the Ranger.

Darkstalker is a feat in Lords of Madness. Basically, all those creatures with Tremorsense, Scent, Blindsense, and Blindsight? Yeah, they have to spot or listen to locate you like everyone else.

Ascension
2008-04-02, 04:57 PM
Darkstalker is a feat in Lords of Madness. Basically, all those creatures with Tremorsense, Scent, Blindsense, and Blindsight? Yeah, they have to spot or listen to locate you like everyone else.

What are the prereqs? I don't really need quick draw anyway, that was just so she can draw hidden weapons more quickly. I'd much rather have this.

She's still in somewhat of a state of flux, but I think I'll keep the eight Assassin levels because of the two-a-day Dim Door. When you combine that with racial Shadow Jumping and the Shadow Hand teleportation abilities, she can get wherever she wants to be whenever she wants to be there.

Oh, wait, forget Dim Door. I just found Assassin's Darkness.

Complete Scoundrel. A 40ft sphere of magical darkness... that doesn't affect the caster.

Also, the Assassin levels are good for Healer's Vision, a 1st level Assassin/Cleric spell from Complete Scoundrel. +2 to attack and damage rolls while making a sneak attack.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-02, 05:09 PM
READ A BOOK!

LOL

Yes, yes, I am aware of the book; I was referring to the apparent fact that the forum filtering software does not allow us to discuss giant wales. Or, for that matter, roosters, or people named Richard.

Talic
2008-04-02, 05:54 PM
What are the prereqs? I don't really need quick draw anyway, that was just so she can draw hidden weapons more quickly. I'd much rather have this.

She's still in somewhat of a state of flux, but I think I'll keep the eight Assassin levels because of the two-a-day Dim Door. When you combine that with racial Shadow Jumping and the Shadow Hand teleportation abilities, she can get wherever she wants to be whenever she wants to be there.

Oh, wait, forget Dim Door. I just found Assassin's Darkness.

Complete Scoundrel. A 40ft sphere of magical darkness... that doesn't affect the caster.

Also, the Assassin levels are good for Healer's Vision, a 1st level Assassin/Cleric spell from Complete Scoundrel. +2 to attack and damage rolls while making a sneak attack.

I don't think there are any prereqs. If there are, it's like Hide (1 rank). The feat can be gotten at level 1.

Draz74
2008-04-02, 05:56 PM
I don't think there are any prereqs. If there are, it's like Hide (1 rank). The feat can be gotten at level 1.

No Prereqs. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Darkstalker,LoM)

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-02, 08:45 PM
My second entry, incase the Green Lantern wasn't evil enough, I bring for your terror and horrification:

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

The Jabberwocky
Half-Farspawn Dragonne

9RHD/Barbarian11 // +8 LA/Rogue11/Assassin1

I figure Half-Farspawn is sufficent to make burble as it slinks through the forest, right? Finishing the stats when I get a chance to turn around twice

Chronos
2008-04-02, 09:34 PM
Were Pyrolisks ever updated to third edition? Because the Jabberwock also needs eyes of flame.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-02, 10:21 PM
Were Pyrolisks ever updated to third edition? Because the Jabberwock also needs eyes of flame.

True... maybe I should switch those Rogue levels over to PsiWar and Pyrokeneticist... you think a Pyrohydra would work? Fire Beetle doesn't work, not enough HD. Too bad I can't slap on Half-Fiend on top of half-farspawn. I need the half-farspawn for the movement, but the half-fiend has burning eyes... oh decisions, decisions...

Squash Monster
2008-04-02, 11:23 PM
"Name": That Damned Hellcrab

The Idea: Everybody loves that damned crab. This one is a cleric! And a fiend!

The story: Hell has monstrous crabs too, and they work pretty much the same way as terrestrial ones, except for the fact that they generally pop out of pools of fire and eat things, instead of pools of water. Really, same thing. While not too bright, That Damned Hellcrab is religious, a vigorous adherent of a cult quite popular among monstrous crabs. Rumored to be founded by some sort of crab dragon, the cult has a very large following amount crabs that have the bare minimum amount of intelligence needed to have ideals. The crab's ideals, by the way, are "wait for food, grab food, bring food back, eat it".

Race: Fiendish Monstrous Crab

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features
1 | Fiendish Creature LA | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 1 | d10 |
2 | Fiendish Creature LA | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 2 | d10 |
3 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 3 | d10 | turn undead, spellcasting
4 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 4 | d10 |
5 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 5 | d10 |
6 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 6/1 | d10 |
7 | Cleric | Monstrous Crab Hitdice | 7/2 | d10 |
8 | Cleric | Fighter | 7/2 | d10 | bonus fighter feat
9 | Cleric | Fighter | 8/3 | d10 | bonus fighter feat
10 | Cleric | War Hulk| 9/4 | d12 | No time to think, ability boost (Str +2)
11 | Cleric | War Hulk | 10/5 | d12 | Great swing, ability boost (Str +2)
12 | Cleric | War Hulk | 10/5 | d12 | Mighty rock throwing, ability boost (Str +2)
13 | Cleric | War Hulk | 11/6/1 | d12 | Mighty swing, ability boost (Str +2)
14 | Cleric | War Hulk | 12/7/2 | d12 | Ability boost, ability boost (Str +2)
15 | Cleric | War Hulk | 13/8/3 | d12 | Sweeping boulder, ability boost (Str +2)
16 | Cleric | War Hulk | 13/8/3 | d12 | Ability boost (Str +2)
17 | Cleric | War Hulk | 14/9/4 | d12 | Massive sweeping boulder, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
18 | Cleric | War Hulk | 15/10/5 | d12 | ability boost (Str +2), Toughness
19 | Cleric | War Hulk | 16/11/6/1 | d12 | Massive Swing, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
20 | Cleric | Barbarian | 17/12/7/2 | d12 | fast movement, rage 1/day
[/table]

Expected HP:
9d10 + 11d12 + 9 + 140 = 270 average

Casts as:
18th level Cleric (Travel and Competition domains)

Feats:
1st: Extend Spell
3rd: Extra Turning
6th: Extra Turning
8th Fighter: Power Attack
9th: Divine Metamagic Persist
9th Fighter: Cleave
12th: Improved Natural Attack
15th: Divine Metamagic Extend
18th: Extra Turning

Base Stats:
Racial modifiers: Str +12, Dex +4, Con +10, Int -8, Cha -8
STR: 22
DEX: 14
CON: 20
WIS: 18
INT: 4
CHA: 2
Put your bonuses into Con, except the one you put in Wis.
Note that you get +2 strength every level from 10 to 19.
Final stats:
STR: 42
DEX: 14
CON: 24
WIS: 19
INT: 4
CHA: 2

Monster stats:
Large Magical Beast (Aquatic, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 9d10 + 11d12 + 9 + 140 (270 HP)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. Swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +8 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +17/+41
Attack: Claw +33 melee (1d8+24)
Full Attack: 2 claws +33 melee (1d8+24) and 3 iterative claw attacks
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d8+24, improved grab, powerful claws, Smite Good 1/day
Special Qualities: Amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., vermin traits, damage reduction 10/magic, cold resistance 10, fire resistance 10, spell resistance 25
Saves: Fort +24, Ref +11, Will +13
Abilities: Str 42, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 4, Wis 19, Cha 2
Skills: 23 ranks in concentration
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave

Strengths:
Strength. It's pretty ridiculous.
Grapple. It's even more ridiculous.
Spells. Yeah, this is silly.

Weaknesses:
Almost no skills

How it works:
That damned Hellcrab behaves exactly as the original damned crab, but with a little bit of tweeking. Specifically, the crab can cast spells. Generally, it will cast a full set of buff spells as appropriate for its current level before it makes its strike. Being still under the water,this generally goes unnoticed. Typical spells are Divine Power, Bull's Strength, and Righteous Might. It can also use Divine Metamagic to persist and extend these spells, uhoh.

Items:
Not really.

Playability:
Available at its level 7, which is like CR 5 or something. Stats provided are for level 20, but being a gigantic demon crab is pretty simple, and the build works at all levels.

Beren One-Hand
2008-04-02, 11:43 PM
I'd love to participate in this one, but my monster manual collection is sadly lacking so any help would be appreciated.

One idea I'm playing around with is based off of farie... so are there any monsters / templates that have the Fey type that would qualify (other than those listed under Sprite in the SRD)?

Chronos
2008-04-03, 12:04 AM
Well, there's also Satyr and Nymph, also from MM1. I don't know offhand what you might find in other books.

Beren One-Hand
2008-04-03, 12:34 AM
Well, there's also Satyr and Nymph, also from MM1. I don't know offhand what you might find in other books.

I suppose I could go with Nymph, but a Satyr definately wouldn't fit for the Queen of Air and Darkness.

Talic
2008-04-03, 07:58 AM
MM2:
Jermlaine would fit, but you'd need a heck of a lot to make it work, with +0 LA and no Racial HD. The next MM2 Fey is an Ocean Strider, but at a whopping 30 HD, it's out of reach. Spirit of the Land is similarly out.

Sirine is 4HD with a LA of +4. If you templated it, it may work.

MM3:
Glastig, has 6 RHD, and a LA of +4, with a +8 cha mod, may work for your purposes. A bit too bound to location (is bound to a small to medium body of water, similar to a dryad).

A Petal has no RHD and a LA of +2, so you'd need a big template, that also provided RHD.
Ragewalker is out, with 22RHD.
Redcap has 4RHD and LA +4, so is in the running with a template, but it might not fit your theme.
Elder Redcap is 12RD and LA+4, so that one works right away.
Splinterwaif is 2RHD and a LA of +4, so it would need a template.
A Thorn has 6RHD and a LA of +2, so it would also need a template.


That's it for MM2 and 3, I left out the Fey swarm as it has no LA.


On a side note, does that damn crab have a starting LA?

Crazy Scot
2008-04-03, 09:09 AM
Here goes my first attempt at these challenges. I was going to put this one forward a few challenges ago for the Army of One category, but my internet went down before I could upload it. Oh well, better late than never.

I will try to explain as best I can the full potential of this character, but its true power and capabilities will have to be imagined by each of you. Numbers here would do nothing to explain what he is actually capable of.

Name: "Master"
Build: Illithid (aka Mind Flayer) - Warblade 13 // Illithid Savant 10 / Undecided 2 (will explain later)
Starting Ability Scores: STR 16, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 20, WIS 16, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 8
Power Break: 9+

Level_____Classes________________Class Abilities of note
1-7______RHD//LA
8________RHD//Warblade
9________Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Skill 1; Lore 2/day
10_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Feat 1; Lore 4/day
11_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Class Feature 1
12_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Skill 2; Acquire Feat 2
13_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Special Attack or Special Quality 1; Lore 6/day
14_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Skill 3; Acquire Feat 3
15_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Class Feature 2
16_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Skill 4; Acquire Feat 4
17_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Special Attack or Special Quality 2; Lore 8/day
18_______Illithid Savant//Warblade__Acquire Class Feature 3
19-20____(undecided)//Warblade

Okay, here comes my attempt at an explanation. The reason I haven't put more information up about this is that it would be impossible to list all he is capable of. But to start out with, those of you who do have the book Savage Species may I encourage you to take a close look at page 77. And for those of you who don't, let me explain a little about the prestige class called the Illithid Savant which is IMO the most broken and overpowered prestige class ever imagined in the D&D world. Basically, for every brain you consume (and Illithids love eating brains), you permanently gain abilities from the consumed creature's ability list and add them to yours.

As for the Warblade class, I went with that for several reasons. First, it is one of two classes which offer d12's for HD, and HP never hurt anyone. Secondly, it offers full BAB which would help with grappling and attacking. And thirdly, it offers several good abilities that would help out if necessary in a pinch when melee combat is unavoidable even with an Illithid's powerful spellcasting and Mindblasting capabilities.

Okay, the prerequisites for Illithid Savant:
Race: Mind-Flayer
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks
Special: must have consumed the brain of a creature of CR 9 or greater (note: it doesn't say that you have to defeat them alone, as long as you eat it)

Class skills aren't worth mentioning too much (see later).

Illithid Savant Class Abilities:
Acquire Skill (Ex): you acquire the number of skills noted on the table known by a creature whose brain you have consumed, chosen at the time of consumption. You permanently gain all of the creature's ranks in those skills(but not racial or ability score bonuses to the skill modifier) even if the new total is more ranks than your current character level would normally allow. These skills become class skills for you, and you can buy more ranks in them if the new ranks don't cause you to exceed your maximum ranks in the skills (level + 3). [note: there is nothing here saying that you can't go over the normal cap by getting ranks with this class feature, you just can't put more ranks in from leveling until the new ranks wouldn't put you over the normal cap.]
Lore (Ex): you gain the ability to make a special lore check to recall esoteric information from the brains of those you have consumed a certain number of times per day. This is effectively a Bardic Knowledge check to learn something unusual that a creature knew before you ate its brain. (1d20 + levels in this PrC + Int modifier)
Acquire Feat (Ex): you permanently acquire the number of feats noted of a consumed creature, provided you meet the feat's prerequisites.
Acquire Class Feature: you permanently gain the designated number of class features noted of a consumed brain's owner, as a character of that creature's level in that class. If the former character was a spellcaster, you are able to cast one spell of each level available to the character (if the victim was a wizard, you must still consult a spellbook or learn from scrolls), as well as any bonus spells provided by your ability scores.
Acquire Special Attack or Special Quality (Ex): you permanently gain the designated number of special attacks or special qualities of a consumed brain's owner. The chosen abilities must not rely on a physical feature of the consumed creature that you do not possess. If the abilities allow a saving throw, you use your own ability score modifier to determine the DC.

So now you can hopefully see why a true layout of this character's capabilities would be impossible without roleplaying it out. As the character wandered the world charming creatures, eating brains, and probably disenchanting most people to his way of living, he would slowly be gaining more capabilities and powers than a single posting could fully explain. In fact, he would IMO be the closest you could get to a single creature who is capable of overcoming any obstacle.

I know in the Army of One challenge there were many offers of explanations of how to overcome obstacles, but the explanations usually relied upon creative roleplaying or creative use/abuse of rules. Their explanations work great if you have a good working understanding of the D&D world, but if you were to give those character sheets to a new gamer, they wouldn't survive half as long as the people who created them. This character would eventually be able to truly do anything, and if you gave the character sheet to a newbie they would have no trouble overcoming any situation (if you give them long enough to think about all the possible ways they have available to them to overcome a situation). They could eventually cast any spell/psionic power. With a BAB of +18, you would have a good chance of hitting anything. Mindblasting or charming them to just disable them. Or use any skill to meet epic skill DCs when you are around level 10. This character would truly be THE Army of One.

Now with all of that said, I STILL have 2 class levels to splurge on. What would you choose? Any person you meet you could eat their brain and get their abilities, so choosing just two levels of one class just doesn't seem to make too much sense. If I had to, though, I would probably go with something like the Reaping Mauler (to improve his grappling ability) or the Warshaper (to improve his physical abilities, and natural attacks). But if he already met one or both of those in his wanderings, they would be useless classes to progress in. Again, the limits of not knowing what he has available to him limit the decision making capabilities. I hope you can see past this minor problem.

Offense: As explained above with 7d8 + 13d12 HP, and a BAB of +18, if he really got into combat he would be a formidable opponent. But with his spellcasting capabilities from his race (including unlimited Mindblast), and any spellcasting from other creatures he met along the road, combat should probably be his last worry. Besides, with his Charm Monster usable at will, he would probably have his own personal army to slow you down long enough that he could do whatever he wanted to anyway.

Defense: Again, with the spellcasting capabilities available to him, and his own personal army of charmed followers, he would be difficult to get to and hit. Just toss on a few spells like Greater Mage Armor, Shield, and a few buffs from the Druid spell list, and he would be difficult to hit at best.

Weaknesses: Not many (if any) that I can see. As I said above, this PrC is probably the most broken one that I have ever found in any D&D product. Why people haven't suggested using it for other build challenges yet, I just don't know. But I would gladly take this character sheet, give it to a newbie, and challenge any other person in this challenge to do the same and see who's character would come out on top.

Nermy
2008-04-03, 11:26 AM
But to start out with, those of you who do have the book Savage Species may I encourage you to take a close look at page 77.

Although an illithid savant is a pretty monstrous class, Savage Species can't be used for these contests:


use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)

I'm pretty sure no official D&D designer has been crazy enough to upgrade the class for 3.5

Crazy Scot
2008-04-03, 11:46 AM
Although an illithid savant is a pretty monstrous class, Savage Species can't be used for these contests.

As I said at the top of my posting, I wanted to make this character for a previous challenge. At the time I first considered it I was not sure if it would work, so I asked Duke of URL if it would be allowed, especially since he specifically states in the rules section: "(no racial progressions from Savage Species, please)". He told me that while racial progressions would not be allowed, Savage Species was an authorized book for the challenges. That is why I went ahead with the build. If he changed his mind and doesn't want to allow it, I will have no problem with withdrawing my submission.

Draz74
2008-04-03, 12:01 PM
S'OK. We'll just vote it for the cheese category and nothing else. :smallwink:


I suppose I could go with Nymph, but a Satyr definately wouldn't fit for the Queen of Air and Darkness.

I did already enter a Nymph-based character. Not that there can't be more than one Nymph in the contest ... just wanted to make sure you knew you were up against stiff competition. :smallwink: No, I just wanted to make sure you knew that you wouldn't be the only one using Nymph.

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-03, 05:01 PM
Mindflayer son of Mindflayer

This character is a Mindflayer who decided to explore his mindflayer heritage. Mindflayers are eligable to become Flayerspawn Psychics and can take mindflayer heritage feats. Mindflayers are also eligible to take the Slayer class. This Mindflayer does all of those, and through becoming more like a mindflayer becomes a more powerful mindflayer.

Somehow this Mindflayer is descended from a Far-Spawn creature and from a Mindflayer. That mindflayers don't traditionally have ancestors doesn't matter for the qualifications of either Flayerspawn or Half-Far Spawn.

I'm not entirely sure how a creature can have twelve face tentacles but this one does.

Half Far-Spawn Ulitharid

RHD 12 /Egoist 1/Slayer 7 // LA 13 / Flayerspawn Psychic 7
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 20, Int 26, Wis 15, Cha 28 (Start + Racial)
Stat Boosts: Cha 32
+6 Stat to Strength and Charisma
STR 26, Cha 34
Cheese: 7

Expansion Tentacle Form: (+4 Str, -4 Dex)

Gargantuan Outsider (Native)
19 D8, 1d4 HD = 178 hp
Speed 30 Feet
Armor Class 18 (-3 Size, +0 Dex, +9 Natural)
Base Attack: +16, Grapple 44
Full Attack: +26 (2 Long Tentacles 1d8+12 Improved Grab), +26 (8 short Tentacles 1d8 +12 Improved Grab), +26 (4 Flayerspawn Tentacles 1d8 +12 Improved Grab)
Special Attacks: Extract, Extract (Flayerspawn), Improved Grab, Improved Grab (Flayerspawn), Mind Blast, Mind Blast 4/day, Psionics, Tentacles count as Magical Weapons
Special Qualities: PR 27, Telepathy 200 feet, Immune to Critical Hits, Immune to Poison, Damage Resistance 10 Acid and Electricity, DR 10 Magic, Immune to Flanking


Half Far-Spawn Ulitharid

Large Outsider (Native) [hd bab and skills are unchanged]
12 d8 Aberration HD
Speed: 30 Feet
Armor Class: -1 size, +2 Dex, +8 natural
Base Attack: +9 (+4 size for grapple)
Full attack: 2 Long tentacles, 6 short tentacles
Special Attacks: Extract, Improved Grab, Mind blast, Psionics
Special Qualities: PR 27, Telepathy 200 ft
Saves: +4 fort, Ref +4, Will + 7
Psionics: As 13th Level telepath
Su: True Strike 1/day
Spell Like Abilities: Blur 3/day, Touch of Idiocy 1/day, Stinking cloud 1/day, Blink 3/day, Greater invisibility 1/day, Telekinesis 1/day, ethereal jaunt 3/day, scintillating pattern 1/day, summon monster 9 1/day, Implosion 1/day,

Blindsight 60 feet, Immunity to poison, Resistance to acid 10, electricity 10, DR 10/magic, natural weapons count as magical for overcoming damage reduction

Change Shape (Su): As a standard action a half-farspawn can become a tentacled mass.
-Gain two additional tentacle attacks, cannot be flanked, immune to critical hits, material plane natives take a -1 morale penalty on attack rolls to hit

Abilities: Str +5, Dex +6, Con +12, Int + 10, Wis +7, Cha +12


Class abilities and Feats:

HD 19d8 +1d4,
BAB:+16
+6 fort, +6 ref, +14 will
Feats:
1.Illithid Heritage
3.Improved Grapple
6.Illithid Skin
9.Illithid Grapple
12.Illithid Grapple
15.Illithid Grapple
18. Ability Focus Mindblast

Bonus Feats from Flayerspawn Psychic:
Ilithid Grapple
Ilithid Extraction

Class Abilities:
13th Level Telepath
7th Level Egoist
Favored Enemy Githyanki +6
Enemy Sense
Brain Nausea
Lucid Buffer
Cerebral Blind
Illithid Blast (30 Foot Cone Stun 2d4) 4/day

Bonus Feat: Expanded Knowledge (Expansion)

Ascension
2008-04-03, 05:58 PM
What's with all the tentacle monsters all of a sudden? I thought the hentai contest was down the hall... Did I walk into the wrong thread or something?

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-03, 06:00 PM
The Shoggoth

"Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!"
Silthilar Totemist 12 // Warshaper 5/ Barbarian 6

9d8 Aberration, +8 LA
Base Stats: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 10
After Racial: Str 1, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 13
After Stat Increase: Str 1, Dex 21, Con 25, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 13
After Books: Str 1, Dex 26, Con 30, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 13
After Morphic: Str 5, Con 34
During Rage: Str 11, Con 40
Cheese Points: 0

Shoggoth is an illiterate Silithilar. Silithilar are the all that remains of a long dead race that constructed monstrous plagues, in the end they were only able to save themselves by becoming bizarre shape shifting hive minds of smaller creatures. Usually they become partially coalesced in order to do damage. While this allows them to attack their opponents while still gaining the dexterity bonus of fine size and retaining all of their swarm immunities this was never quite powerful enough for Shoggoth.

Shoggoth has levels in Warshaper and Totemist allowing him to create new natural weapons that he can use, even while in swarm form. He has five natural attacks from his totemist levels in addition to his Swarm attack. Warshaper increases the strength of his natural attacks and lets him create new natural attacks.

Shoggoth's spynhx claws soul meld allows him to full attack with all of his natural weapons on a charge. His blood talon soul meld allows him to keep fighting even when at 0 hit points and below, while his swarm traits make him immune to death through hit point damage. Winter mask makes all his attacks cause fatigue.

Being a barbarian helps Shoggoth raise his constitution score. Constitution determines the DCs both for his racial abilities and his totemist abilities. The illiteracy class ability of both the totemist and the barbarian makes him largely immune to explosive runes.

Shoggoth's main strategy is to cause infestations within all of his opponents. Infestation will lower their physical stats until the point of either paralysis or death. Depending on GM ruling the bleed damage caused by blood talons may cause the infestation ability to activate again. Shoggoth also can cause fatigue on hit, and being in the same square as him makes spell casting difficult and can cause nausea.

Shoggoth cannot die through hit point damage. Shoggoth cannot be targeted with spells that effect a specific number of targets, including single target spells. If Shoggoth is reduced to 0 hit points he may get dispersed, or he may be able to still fight depending on gm ruling. If Shoggoth is dispersed he still has fast healing 2 allowing him to return to the fight quickly.

Shoggoth also can play well in teams. Want to become a beholder so you can pick up the beholder mage prestige class? Shoggoth can help. Want to become immune to fire? Shoggoth can change you into something with the fire subtype. Want to be able to fly? Now you are a half dragon!

Shoggoth cannot do much against undead, constructs, or other creatures immune to ability damage. He is proficient in Kukris however and can wield four of them at a time in his medium form. With money left over he could put all sorts of undead and construct bane crystals and enchantments on them.

There are two ways to defeat a Shoggoth. Shoggoth can be killed by reducing his constitution to 0. As a hive mind Shoggoth can be targeted by single target mind effecting powers. Shoggoth's low will save will do little against a dominate monster spell.




Raging Shoggoth in Swarm Form
Fine Aberration (Shapechanger, Swarm)
14d8+6d12 HD 372 hp
Speed 30 Feet, Fly 50 (Perfect)
AC 10+ 8 Size, 8 dex, -4 Rage = 24
Size/ Reach 10/10 and -
BAB:+16/+11/+6 // Grapple -
Full Attack Charge: +32 Blood Talon (1d8 Bleed, Infestation, Fatigue), +32 Blood Talon (1d8 Bleed, Infestation, Fatigue), +32 Dragon Claw (1d8 Infestation, Fatigue), +32 Dragon Claw (1d8 Infestation, Fatigue), +32 Dragon Tail (1d8 Infestation, Fatigue) +32 Any Number of Additional Natural Weapons, and Swarm (2d6 Infestation, Fatigue)
Special Attacks: Distraction, Infestation, Warp Flesh, Fatigue
Special Qualities: Coalesced Form, Immortality, Immunity to disease, Immunity to Weapon Damage, Low-Light Vision, Swarm traits, Fast Healing 2, Blood Talons
Saves:Fort: +28, Ref +21, Will +9
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 26, Con 40, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 13
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Multi-Attack, Reckless Rage, Ability Focus Infestation, Ability Focus Winter Mask, (Two more feats, Vow of Poverty for extra cheese)

Infestation: Fort Save DC 33 or take 1d4 damage to either STR, Dex, or Con chosen randomly.

Distraction: Fort Save DC 31 or become nauseated when in same square as Shoggoth. Concentration check DC 34 to use a focused skill while in same square as Shoggoth. Concentration check DC 34+Spell Level to cast or maintain a spell while in same square as Shoggoth.

Warp Flesh: Fort Save DC 33 or Polymorph any object. (more info under racial traits)

Winter Mask: Fort Save DC 28 or fatigued by touch.



Silthilar Racial Traits:

Fine Aberration (Shapechanger, Swarm)
9d8 racial HD
Speed 20 feet, Fly 40 (perfect)
AC +8 Size
BAB +6
Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus infestation)
Spine (1d4 +infestation)
Full attack: Swarm (2d6 plus infestation) or 4 spines (1d4 + infestation)
Space / Reach: 10 ft / -; or 5/5
Special Attacks: Distraction, infestation, warp flesh
Special Qualities: Coalesced form, immortality, immunity to disease, immunity to weapon damage, low-light vision, swarm traits
Saves: Fort +3, Ref + 3, Will + 8
Abilities: STR 1/+0, Dex +5, Con +3, Int +5, Wis +2, Cha +3

Distraction (ex): Any living creature in same square as a silthilar in swarm form must make a DC 16 (+con mod) Fortitude save or become Nausiated. Spellcasting or concentrating requires a DC 19+ con mod + spell level concentration check. Using skills requiring concentration requires a DC 19 + con mod Concentration check.

Infestation (Su): A silthilar can infest any living creature it strikes with its natural attacks or swarm damage. A creature struck must make a DC 16+con mod fortitude save or take 1d4 points of ability damage selected randomly from Strength Dexterity or Constitution. The Save DC is Constitution based.

Warp Flesh (Su): As a full round action that provokes ooc a Silthilar in swarm can target a single living creature in one of its squares. The target must make a DC 18+con mod fort save or be transformed into another creature. This is identical to polymorph any object CL 9, except that it can only change a living creature into another living creature. It does not deal swarm damage or cause distraction on a warp flesh round.

Coalesced Form: As a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity a silthithar can switch to a solid form. It can retrieve weapons from extradimensional pockets as a free action.

In its coalesced from it is treated as a medium aberration with a space/reach of 5/5. It looses +8 size to ac and attack but gains a +8 natural armor bonus. It retains the swarm subtype and all traits of the swarm subtype except form swarm attack and distraction. It is not subject to extra damage from critical hits and is still immune to weapon damage. If struck with a physical attack, it must make a concentration check DC 10+ damage dealt, or revert to a swarm and be nauseated for 1d4 rounds.

Immortality (ex): A silithar cannot age and cannot be magically aged.

Swarm Traits: Not subject to extra damage from critical hits or flanking. Immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a Swarm to 0 hp causes the sworm to break up. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to dying by damage. They cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed.

A swarm is immune to any spell that targets a specific number of creatures including single target spells, with the exception of mind effecting spells.

A swarm takes +50 percent damage from spells affecting an area.
Swarms of diminutive or fine creatures are susceptible to high winds.
Wind effects deal 1d6 nonlethal damage to a swarm per spell level or
creature hit dice.

A swarm rendered unconscious is dispersed and does not re-form until its hit points exceed its nonlethal damage.


Totemist:

As a 12th level totemist Shoggoth can have six active soulmelds, with three bound at any one time.

Shoggoth usually has Blood Talons bound to his Totem Chakra.
Blood Talons allows him to act at 0 hp and lower. While bound to his Totem Chakra he gains two 1d4 claw attacks. The Claw attacks do an additional point of damage on the next round from bleeding.

Shoggoth usually has Sphynx claws bound to his hands Chakra allowing him to make a full attack with natural weapons on a charge.

Shoggoth usually has Totem Avatar bound to his shoulders causing all of his natural attacks to be treated as one size larger.

Shoggoth usually has Dragon tail shaped but not bound giving him a 1d8 tail attack that cannot be used on attacks of opportunity.

Shoggoth usually shapes Dragon Claws after shaping Blood Talons, the Dragon claws then give him two 1d4 claw attacks (based upon previous claw attacks as opposed to size)

Shoggoth usually has Winter Mask shaped so that his touch fatigues
Shoggoth can bind to his Totem, Crown, Feet, Hands, Arms, Brow, and shoulders
He can have six soulmelds shaped at a time, and three chakra binds

Illiteracy


Warshaper:

Morphic Immunities is redundant with Shoggoth's racial abilities.

Morphic Weaponry allows him to create new natural weapons as a standard action. All of his existing natural weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger. Shoggoth can create weapons as often as it wants (however the build is quite effective without 1,000 tentacles)

Morphic Body gives +4 Strength and +4 Constitution.

Morphic Reach allows Shoggoth to treat all of his natural weapons as reach weapons.

Morphic Healing: Shoggoth has Fast Healing 2. If it makes a concentration check equal to the damage it has taken +10 it can heal back 10 points of damage as a standard action.

Flashmorph: Shoggoth is able to change forms as a move action instead of a standard action.


Barbarian:

Illiteracy
Fast Movement +10 feet
Rage 2/day (+4 Con, +4 strength)
Uncanny Dodge
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Trapsense +2

expirement10K14
2008-04-03, 07:31 PM
Name: Don't Make Me Angry...
Build: Half-Dragon Stone Giant- Giant 14/Hulking Hurler 3/X 3//LA 7/Barbarian 5/Frenzied Berserker 8
Starting Ability Scores: STR 18, DEX 14, CON 10, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 8
Cheese Points: 4
Minimum Playable Level:14
Power Break: 18-Really Throw Anything, 19-Overburdened Heave 20- Greater Frenzy

Break down to come
{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Special
1|RHD 1|LA 1
2|RHD 2|LA 2
3|RHD 3|LA 3|[Power Attack]
4|RHD 4|LA 4|Str +1
5|RHD 5|LA 5
6|RHD 6|LA 6|[Cleave]
7|RHD 7|LA 7
8|RHD 8|Barbarian1|Str +1, Rage 1/day
9|RHD 9|Barbarian2|[Destructive Rage]
10|RHD 10|Barbarian3
11|RHD 11|Barbarian4|Rage 2/day
12|RHD 12|Barbarian5|Str +1 [Intimidating Rage]
13|RHD 13|FB 1|Frenzy 1/day
14|RHD 14|FB 2
15|Fighter1|FB 3|Frenzy 2/day [Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Dart)]
16|WH 1|FB 4|Str +1, Ability Boost (Str +2), No time to think
17|WH 2|FB 5|Frenzy 3/day, Ability Boost (Str +2), Great Swing
18|HH 1|FB 6|[Natural Heavy Weight]
19|HH 2|FB 7|Frenzy 4/day
20|HH 3|FB 8|Str +1[/table]
Note: TAKE OVERBURDENED HEAVE AS LEVEL 2 ABILITY FOR HULKING HURLER!
Final Stats- STR 51, DEX 18, CON 20, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 10
Description:
Large
Space/Reach- 10ft/10ft
40 foot land speed, 80 foot fly speed
60 foot Darkvision
Natural Armor 15
Rock throwing (+1 attack bonus throwing rocks)
Rock Catching
Carrying Capacity- Medium Load is 22176
Natural Attacks
Breath Weapon
BaB- 18/13/8/3
Frenzy and Rage
Really Throw Anything
Overburdened Heave
The rest isn't really relevant to my build, so it isn't listed.
For Half-Dragon any color is fine, depending on your alignment issues.
Natural Heavy Weight Doubles Carrying Capacity

Offense
If I am correct he can throw a rock weighing 78,336lbs for 394d6+20 damage.
Flying into Greater Frenzy increases his strength to 61, allowing him to throw a rock 313,344lbs for a monumental 1569d6+25. Don't mess.
Now, buy Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 and belt of Giants strength +6, Strength while frenzied is 72, translating to a rock 1,417,216 lbs maximum, or 7089d6+31. Assuming a roll of 3 on all the d6's you get 21'298 damage average.:smallcool: I guess making carrying capacity an exponential function is a bad idea.
Damage Range- 7,120 - 42,565 damage
Buying +dex items can greatly increase your chance to hit.
If your really desperate, use your breath weapon.:smallwink:
Defense
Natural Armor 15, meh on the dex, but items in dex are amazing, as they give you a better chance to hit and a higher AC. Saves are not so good, but nothing should live long enough to hit you.
During Frenzies and Rages this is worse.
Weaknesses
Will Saves
AC can be low depending on your item/armor.
Don't get caught without a huge rock in your hand.

Talic
2008-04-03, 08:46 PM
Not bad. Check out the Gestalt ranged combat for his big brothers. :)

Also, drop something for Natural Heavyweight. It'll boost you A LOT.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-03, 08:48 PM
It is clear that your half-dragon giant and my half-dragon giant must battle to the death.

I hope I have rock-catching.

Talic
2008-04-03, 09:03 PM
Can my Half-whale giant join?

SamTheCleric
2008-04-03, 09:06 PM
Moby-Richard scares me.

Talic
2008-04-03, 09:11 PM
His damage isn't all that high. It's the Gargantuan Grapple mod that makes him fun, and he's rather nasty if he has home court advantage.

Grapple check to move the grapple 15 feet down, anyone? I just did the math, he can hold his breath for 40 minutes before making a check. With a +20 to his check, he will auto-pass the check for another 11 rounds after that.

So 41 minutes underwater.

Zincorium
2008-04-03, 10:04 PM
Alright, I've got a somewhat pressing rules question that is disabling me from posting my build just yet.

The Black Ethergaunt from fiend folio (which is officially updated and therefore allowed) has 17th level wizard spellcasting. Kind of sucks I can't make up those last three levels, but hey, I've 9th level spells. And a +20 racial intelligence bonus.


The problem is this: Black ethergaunts only have 16 hit dice. So, what kind of spellcasting do they technically have on the way up? Is it one greater than their hit dice all the way through, or do they get a sudden bump at 16?

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-03, 10:10 PM
I think it usually doesn't come up as you can't play or leadership the creature until both hit dice and level adjustment are met. I was encountering a similar weird thing with the Ultrathid who casts as a 13th level telepath at level 12.

Any rulings on it Duke?

Talic
2008-04-03, 11:21 PM
I think it usually doesn't come up as you can't play or leadership the creature until both hit dice and level adjustment are met. I was encountering a similar weird thing with the Ultrathid who casts as a 13th level telepath at level 12.

Any rulings on it Duke?

It can come up for the purposes of qualifying for feats, and, in the case of certain High HD/Low LA races, PrC's.

dspeyer
2008-04-03, 11:59 PM
Hmm, what is it with me and righteous flying reptiles?

Judge, Jury and Executioner
Race: Huge half-celestial Couatl (advancement by extra hit dice)
Build: rhd 14 / mindspy 4 / paladin 2 // la 11 / favoured soul 9
Playable from: 15
Starting stats: STR: 34 DEX: 20 CON: 22 INT: 16 WIS: 24 CHA: 26 (including str and con bonuses, dex penalty for advancing size by hit dice)
Final stats: STR: 40 DEX 24 CON: 22 INT: 19 WIS: 24 CHA: 38 (isn't vow of poverty fun?)

Magic:
Sorceror level 9 (or should it be 14? it didn't say anywhere to increase sorceror levels with hit dice, but that was clearly the original idea)
Favored Soul level 9
Both gain bonus spells from CHA, so lots of spells per day
Spell-like abilities of a 14hd half-celestial (including dispel evil, holy word and holy aura)
Spell-like abilities of a coautl (including ethereal jaunt, plane shift and detect thoughts -- all unlimited use)
Continual true seeing from VoP

Offense:
JJE favors melee (buffing himself with haste for extra attacks) or grappling (using his huge size to full advantage. In addition to full BAB and high strength, JJE adds a +4 anticipation bonus and a +5 exalted bonus, plus any buff spells he used. When he really needs to hit, he uses smite evil to add his full cha bonus to the attack roll and/or uses true strike.

Defence:
Nat Arm=9 (coutl) + 1 (half-celestial) + 2 (VoP) = 12
total AC = 10 (base) + 12 (nat) + 5 (exalted) + 5 (dex) + 3 (deflection) = 35
All saves are good outsider/favored soul (12) with VoP resistance (3) and divine grace (14) for a total of 27+relevant stat
Spell resistance: 24 (half-celestial)
Damage reduction: 10/magic (half-celestial) and 10/evil (VoP). I'm not sure how those combine
Energy resistance: 15 to any (VoP) This probably doesn't stack with half-celestial and favoured soul resistances, though those are helpful before VoP fully kicks in
If all this fails, JJE will plane-shift to someplace his enemies might find uncomfortable, like the elemental plane of fire (where his resistance and dr will protect him) or water (where the VoP doesn't-breath ability comes in handy)

Other:
Decent INT and outsider RHD make for lots of skills. I'm not really sure what he'll use them on. Intimidate, spellcraft, concentration, survival and knowledge(law) would be appropriate.
Alternate form enables JJE to be inconspicuous when he wants to be. For example, if he wants to see how vulnerable to temptation a fighter is, he could wild-shape into a frail an naive messenger carrying a (silent image) purse of gold.

Personality:
The Judge Jury and Executioner takes all three of his duties seriously. First he judges an individual, spending days observing both thought and deed, and possibly creating tests. Then he deliberates, using the full extent of his wisdom and knowledge of various legal codes to consider the problem from all angles. Finally he executes a sentence. For minor infringements, a warning (and intimidate check) suffices. For greater ones, he arcanely inflicts a geas to make amends. For those in whom he sees no redemption, there is simply a long fall onto sharp rocks.

Chronos
2008-04-04, 12:43 AM
Sorceror level 9 (or should it be 14? it didn't say anywhere to increase sorceror levels with hit dice, but that was clearly the original idea)I'm going to say that it's still only 9, for a couple of reasons. First, there are some creatures whose spellcasting is explicitly tied to HD. It's not phrased that way for couatls, so I would assume that there's a reason for the different phrasing. Second, there are rules saying that creatures with racial spellcasting can advance that spellcasting with the equivalent PC class, and if it were possible to advance couatl spellcasting via RHD, no couatl would ever take the actual sorcerer class (since Outsider RHD have significantly better hit points, skills, and saves, plus you get a size boost).

On the other hand, nothing in the half-celestial description says that the spell-like abilities are based only on racial HD. So you get all of the abilities for 20 HD.

Beren One-Hand
2008-04-04, 02:15 AM
Name: Agent 007
Build: Phrenic Doppleganger (Shapechanger, Psionic) Warshaper 2 / Mindspy 4 / Chameleon 10 // Rogue 11 / Scout 3
Starting Ability Scores: 12 STR , 14 DEX , 14 CON , 18 INT , 20 WIS , 20 CHA
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 6
Power Break:

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Feats | Power Resistance | Sneak Attack | Skirmish | Special Abilities
1 | Monstrous Humanoid HD | LA +1 | Able Learner | 11 | - | - | Defensive Precognition 3/day, Force Screen 1/day
2 | Monstrous Humanoid HD | LA +1 | - | 12 | - | - | -
3 | Monstrous Humanoid HD | LA +1 | Skill Focus (Bluff) | 13 | - | - | Empty Mind 3/day, Mind Thrust 3/day
4 | Monstrous Humanoid HD | LA +1 | - | 14 | - | - | Detect Thoughts, Change Shape, Immunity to Sleep & Charm, +4 Natural Armor
5 | Warshaper | LA +1 | - | 15 | - | - | Body Adjustment 1/day, Brain Lock 1/day, Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
6 | Mindspy | LA +1 | 1 Feat | 16 | - | - | Anticipate, Combat Telepathy, Spherical Detect Thoughts
7 | Mindspy | Rogue | - | 17 | +1d6 | - | Aversion 1/day, Blast 1/day, Faster Mindscan, Trapfinding
8 | Mindspy | Scout | - | 18 | +1d6 | +1d6 | Multiple Surface Thoughts (2), Trapfinding
9 | Warshaper | Scout | 1 Feat | 19 | +1d6 | +1d6 | Intellect Fortress 3/day, Psychic Crush 1/day, Morphic Body, Uncanny Dodge, Battle Fortitude +1
10 | Mindspy | Scout | - | 20 | +1d6 | +1d6/+1 AC | Instant Mindscan, Dungeon Specialist, Go to Ground
11 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 21 | +1d6 | +1d6/+1 AC | Psionic Dominate 1/day, Aptitude Focus 1/day (+2), Evasion
12 | Chameleon | Rogue | Swift Ambusher | 22 | +2d6 | +2d6/+1 AC | Bonus Feat, Spell Sense +1
13 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 23 | +2d6 | +2d6/+2 AC | Energy Current 1/day, Tower of Iron Will 1/day, Mimic Class Feature 1/day, Improved Uncanny Dodge
14 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 24 | +3d6 | +2d6/+2 AC | Ability Boon +2
15 | Chameleon | Rogue | 1 Feat | 25 | +3d6 | +3d6/+2 AC | Psionic Teleport 3/day, Aptitude Focus 2/day (+4), Spell Sense +2
16 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 26 | +4d6 | +3d6/+2 AC | Mimic Class Feature 2/day
17 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 27 | +4d6 | +3d6/+3 AC | Fission 1/day, Ability Boon +4, Double Aptitude, Improved Uncanny Dodge
18 | Chameleon | Rogue | 1 Feat | 28 | +5d6 | +3d6/+3 AC | Rapid Refocus, Spell Sense +3
19 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 29 | +5d6 | +4d6/+3 AC | Ultrablast 1/day, Mimic Class Feature 3/day, Rogue Special Ability
20 | Chameleon | Rogue | - | 30 | +6d6 | +4d6/+3 AC | Ability Boon +6, Aptitude Focus 3/day[/table]

How it Works
Should be completely obvious...
Not only can he appear to be anybody, he can actually do the work associated with his chosen persona. Add in his innate mind reading and he's the perfect spy.

Any suggestions for the duplicated class features?

dspeyer
2008-04-04, 02:36 AM
I'm going to say that it's still only 9, for a couple of reasons. First, there are some creatures whose spellcasting is explicitly tied to HD. It's not phrased that way for couatls, so I would assume that there's a reason for the different phrasing. Second, there are rules saying that creatures with racial spellcasting can advance that spellcasting with the equivalent PC class, and if it were possible to advance couatl spellcasting via RHD, no couatl would ever take the actual sorcerer class (since Outsider RHD have significantly better hit points, skills, and saves, plus you get a size boost).

Both solid points (though it's conceivable a couatl would want a familiar -- or more likely a metamagic specialization).



On the other hand, nothing in the half-celestial description says that the spell-like abilities are based only on racial HD. So you get all of the abilities for 20 HD.

Wow, that didn't occur to me. JJE gets resurrection with no material component -- death sentences that can be appealed!

Kurald Galain
2008-04-04, 03:26 AM
Grapple check to move the grapple 15 feet down, anyone? I just did the math, he can hold his breath for 40 minutes before making a check. With a +20 to his check, he will auto-pass the check for another 11 rounds after that.

Pudding doesn't breathe :smallbiggrin:

Talic
2008-04-04, 03:39 AM
Pudding doesn't breathe :smallbiggrin:

The Troll likes pudding. Heh.

expirement10K14
2008-04-04, 05:44 AM
Okay, so whoever told me about natural heavy weight is my hero...

Duke of URL
2008-04-04, 07:53 AM
The problem is this: Black ethergaunts only have 16 hit dice. So, what kind of spellcasting do they technically have on the way up? Is it one greater than their hit dice all the way through, or do they get a sudden bump at 16?

Since we're not doing racial progressions, it's a moot point. The character/creature isn't playable until it's entire LA and RHD costs are paid off. (Note, it is legal to "play" it with zero class levels, if RHD is greater than LA, e.g., a Troll has LA +5 and RHD 6 -- it is playable at level 6 because it's ok to play it with zero class levels; on the other hand, a Nymph has LA +6 and 6 RHD and so cannot be played until level 7, because the LA has to be entirely paid off plus have at least one level beyond it.)

Annarrkkii
2008-04-04, 07:58 AM
A Nymph is 6 HD and +7 LA, actually :smalltongue:

I may soon be submitting a grappling salamander build, just for giggles. It won't be the most powerful build, by far, but it should be pretty interesting, I think.

Zincorium
2008-04-04, 09:07 AM
Since we're not doing racial progressions, it's a moot point. The character/creature isn't playable until it's entire LA and RHD costs are paid off. (Note, it is legal to "play" it with zero class levels, if RHD is greater than LA, e.g., a Troll has LA +5 and RHD 6 -- it is playable at level 6 because it's ok to play it with zero class levels; on the other hand, a Nymph has LA +6 and 6 RHD and so cannot be played until level 7, because the LA has to be entirely paid off plus have at least one level beyond it.)

Thats... 100% correct but 0% helpful for the reason I needed it answered. So I'll just avoid the question of whether I meet the spellcasting prerequisites for a prestige class entirely.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-04, 10:26 AM
Name: Your Ex-Girlfriend from Hell. Literally.
Build: Erinyes Swordsage 6/Dread Commando 5//Sorcerer 8/Nightmare Spinner 5
Starting Ability Scores: Str 21, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 20
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 10
Power Break: As soon as she becomes playable.

{table] Level | Class 1 | Class 2
1 | RHD | LA
2 | RHD | LA
3 | RHD | LA
4 | RHD | LA
5 | RHD | LA
6 | RHD | LA
7 | RHD | LA
8 | RHD | Sorcerer
9 | RHD | Sorcerer
10 | Dread Commando | Sorcerer
11 | Dread Commando | Sorcerer
12 | Dread Commando | Sorcerer
13 | Dread Commando | Sorcerer
14 | Dread Commando | Sorcerer
15 | Swordsage | Sorcerer
16 | Swordsage | Nightmare Spinner
17 | Swordsage | Nightmare Spinner
18 | Swordsage | Nightmare Spinner
19 | Swordsage | Nightmare Spinner
20 | Swordsage | Nightmare Spinner[/table]

Hit Dice: 15d8+5d10+100
Feats: [From RHD] Dodge, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run
[Additional Feats] Elusive Target, Practiced Spellcaster, Improved Rapid Shot

Offense: Destroys you with spells and ranged attacks, using swordsage boosts and counters. Charm Monster at will.

Defense: High AC, lots of defensive sorcerer spells (Greater mage armor, Shield, Displacement, Greater Invisibility), Greater Teleport at will. True Seeing. You should never be close enough to hit her... even if you can see her.

Weakness: Chocolate.

expirement10K14
2008-04-04, 02:26 PM
I have fixed the build, it should be legal now.
Finding new ways to do things more efficiantly leads to a second build-
Name: Don't Make Me Angry... 4 Legged Edition!
Build: Half-Fiend Centaur- LA 6/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/War Hulk 10/Hulking Hurler 2//RHD 4/Fighter 1/Master Thrower 5/Barbarian 10
Starting Ability Scores: STR 18, DEX 14, CON 10, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 8
Cheese Points:2
Minimum Playable Level: 7
Power Break: 9-18- +2 Strength, 20- Overburdened Heave, Greater Rage, 10- Weak Spot
Break down to come
{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Special
1|LA 1|RHD 1|[Point Blank Shot]
2|LA 2|RHD 2|
3|LA 3|RHD 3|[Precise Shot]
4|LA 4|RHD 4| +1 Str
5|LA 5|Fighter 1| [Weapon Focus (Boulder)]
6|LA 6|MT 1| [Power Attack]
7|Fighter 2|MT 2|[Cleave]
8|Barbarian 1|MT 3|+1 Str, Two With one Blow, Rage 1/day
9|War Hulk1|MT 4|Ability increase (Str +2) [Natural Heavy Weight]
10|War Hulk2|MT 5|Ability increase (Str +2), Weak Spot
11|War Hulk3|Barbarian2|Ability increase (Str +2), Uncanny Dodge
12|War Hulk4|Barbarian3|Ability increase (Str +2)
13|War Hulk5|Barbarian4|Ability increase (Str +2), Rage 2/day
14|War Hulk6|Barbarian5|Ability increase (Str +2), Improved Uncanny Dodge
15|War Hulk7|Barbarian6|Ability increase (Str +2) [Extra Rage]
16|War Hulk8|Barbarian7|Ability increase (Str +2), Damage Reduction 1/-
17|War Hulk9|Barbarian8|Ability increase (Str +2), Rage 3/day
18|War Hulk10|Barbarian9|Ability increase (Str +2) [Extended Rage]
19|HH 1|Barbarian10|Really Throw Anything, Damage Reduction 2/-
20|HH 2|Barbarian11|+1 Str, Overburdened Heave, Greater Rage[/table]
Note: TAKE OVERBURDENED HEAVE AS LEVEL 2 ABILITY FOR HULKING HURLER AND TAKE THE WEAK SPOT AND TWO WITH ONE BLOW ABILITIES FROM MASTER THROWER

[B]Final Abilities- STR 55, DEX 22, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 12

Not all abilities are above, only important features. Here are some more-

50ft land speed
+3 natural armor
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to poison.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).
Spell resistance equal to HD + 10 (maximum 35).
Many others not relevant
Spell-like Abilities


Offence
Attack-
55 Strength, +5 from manual of gainful exercise, +6 from Belt of ogres strength +6 From Rage= 72
Medium Load for strength 72 Large Quadrupedal is 1,062,912
With Natural Heavy Weight that becomes 2,125,824
A rock that big does 10,632d6 damage. With the Master Thrower ability Weak spot it is a touch attack, and with Brutal Throw you get to use your strength to hit.

Defence-
Try going for +Dex items and bracers of armor, as they leave you more space for your boulder. Fort save is good, but other than that watch out. If in trouble, your boulder should take out any threat before it is a problem.

Weaknesses-
Weak will and reflex saves.
You have to carry your boulder around, a bag of holding should help with this though.
Low AC without magic items.

Useful Magic Items
Gloves of Taarnahm the Vigilant from Players Guide to Faerun apply Returning and throwing properties to all items in case your DM won't let you enchant a Boulder.
Manual of Gainful Exercise +5
Belt of Giants Strength +6
Bracers of Armor +8
Gloves of Dexterity +6 (If you get other gloves you can pay extra to move this to another location)
Manual of Quickness in Battle +5



I am slowly working this towards legal. It may take some time.

Duke of URL
2008-04-04, 02:34 PM
@expirement10K14 - Lolth-touched is not an inherited template.


Thats... 100% correct but 0% helpful for the reason I needed it answered. So I'll just avoid the question of whether I meet the spellcasting prerequisites for a prestige class entirely.

OK, I understand the question now. It's kind of an open interpretation issue. Personally (for what it's worth), I'd rule that caster level = RHD until all LA is paid off, at which point CL = RHD +1.

Does that sound reasonable?

expirement10K14
2008-04-04, 02:44 PM
I know it is not inherited. I took the cheese points for it.

Duke of URL
2008-04-04, 02:46 PM
I know it is not inherited. I took the cheese points for it.

Take a look back at post #1:


SPECIAL RULE: You are allowed up to one template only, and if using a template, it must be an inherited template, not an acquired one -- no cheese points for this template

expirement10K14
2008-04-04, 03:03 PM
Well then, my build is toast, I'll just either find a new template to replace those or go back to my first build.

FlyMolo
2008-04-04, 03:27 PM
Dangit, I wanted to write up the Green Lantern as a Lantern Archon, but only 1 RHD. Epic fail...:smallfrown:

Oh wait!

The Green Lantern

Build:

Phrenic Will-O'Wisp LA +2/Warlock18//RHD9 + Pyrokeneticist10/Sorcerer1

Stats (before adaptation) Str 8 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 9 Wis 10 Cha 17

Stats (After adaptation) Str 1 Dex 34 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 24

SLA/PsLA's:
3/day—defensive precognition; 1/day—force screen
3/day—empty mind, mind thrust
1/day—body adjustment, brain lock
1/day—aversion, psionic blast
3/day—intellect fortress; 1/day—psychic crush
1/day—psionic dominate
1/day—energy current, tower of iron will
3/day—psionic teleport
1/day—fission
1/day—ultrablast

Fire Lash
Hands Afire
Bolt of Fire (10d6)
Weapon Afire, Greater
Nimbus
Heat Death
Conflagration

Warlock Invocations:

Eldrich Blast 8d6

Least:
Eldrich Spear
Baleful Utterance
See the Unseen

Lesser:
Eldrich Chain
Voracious Dispelling
Hellrime Blast

Greater:
Chilling Tentacles
Vitriolic Blast
Tenatious Plague

Dark:
Word of Changing
Dark Foresight


Innate abilities:

Immunity to Magic (Ex)
A will-o’-wisp is immune to most spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.

Natural Invisibility (Ex)
A startled or frightened will-o’-wisp can extinguish its glow, effectively becoming invisible as the spell.

Combat tactics:

He's got multiple ways of zapping you. Electricity, Fire, Acid (which bypasses SR), pure Eldrich Blast, Sonic with Baleful Utterance, about and Cold. He can also do negative levels to crowds with Chain Utterdark Blast.

With Natural Invisibility, he's a hard bugger to see, and effective even in an AMF. The complete immunity to magic doesn't hurt either.

It's hard to really hurt this guy. He's immune to most of Batman's tricks, by virtue of being immune to magic. It's going to be very hard to grapple with him when he's flying about, and no way to get him to stop.

He's a sniper par excellance, doing well what is mostly thought poor tactics: blasting.

This goes for that ooze on the first page too.(and anyone with warlock levels)

All warlocks planning on ever coming within range of anyone's weapon ever who would like to blast them without having to pump Concentration to avoid taking AoOs, take the feat from Savage Species. Supernatural Transformation(I think?). A single SLA becomes a a (su) ability, does not provoke AoO. Melee-locks rejoice. It's a general feat too. Some for everyone.

Talic
2008-04-04, 04:07 PM
Bear in mind folks, in order for a race to qualify, it must have a Level Adjustment. CR isn't enough. LA: -- is not LA: 0.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-04, 04:58 PM
Follow the rules or that Exgirlfriend From Hell will find you... :smallwink:

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-04, 07:09 PM
This goes for that ooze on the first page too.(and anyone with warlock levels)

All warlocks planning on ever coming within range of anyone's weapon ever who would like to blast them without having to pump Concentration to avoid taking AoOs, take the feat from Savage Species. Supernatural Transformation(I think?). A single SLA becomes a a (su) ability, does not provoke AoO. Melee-locks rejoice. It's a general feat too. Some for everyone.

Concentration checks? Who needs those? Dude, I'm popping you off at over 200 feet then teleporting to another location while naturally invisible. The only thing I'm missing are Rogue levels to increase damage output.

Zincorium
2008-04-05, 03:29 AM
A Blacker Shade of Dark

Build: Black Ethergaunt/spellthief/beguiler//shadow creature/spellthief/unseen seer/factotum
Starting Ability Scores: STR 10 DEX 20 CON 18 INT 38 WIS 12 CHA 12
Cheese Points: 0 (oddly enough)
Minimum Playable Level: 16
Power Break: 16, when it becomes playable
{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Feats and abilities
1 | RHD | LA | {Arcane Strike}, {EWP: Etherblade (B)}, Enslave, Stupefying Gaze, Material Jaunt, Immunity to spells (<6th), total vision
2 | RHD | LA |
3 | RHD | LA | {Weapon Finesse}
4 | RHD | LA |
5 | RHD | LA | Cold resistance, shadow blend, Evasion
6 | RHD | LA | {Extend Spell}
7 | RHD | Spellthief | Sneak Attack 1d6, Trapfinding, Steal Spell
8 | RHD | Spellthief | Fast Healing 2, Detect Magic, Steal Spell Effect
9 | RHD | Beguiler | {Master Spellthief}, Armored Mage
10 | RHD | Beguiler | Cloaked Casting, Surprise Casting
11 | RHD | Nightmare Spinner | Immunity to Fear, Inspire Fear, bonus spells
12 | RHD | Nightmare Spinner | {Quicken Spell} Plane Shift, Nightmare Phantasm
13 | RHD | Nightmare Spinner | Spirit Chill
14 | RHD | Nightmare Spinner |
15 | RHD | Nightmare Spinner | {Sculpt Spell} Deadly Nightmare
16 | RHD | Fate Spinner | +2 luck bonus on saving throws, Spin fate
17 | Factotum | Fate Spinner | Fickle Finger of Fate, Inspiration, cunning insight, cunning knowledge
18 | Factotum | Fate Spinner | {Smiting Spell} Spin Destiny, arcane dilettante
19 | Spellthief | Fate Spinner | Deny fate, Resist Fate, steal energy resistance
20 | Beguiler | Fate Spinner | Mirror Image, Seal Fate, advanced learning
[/table]

All PrCs progress beguiler casting

Offense:
The BSD laughs at your puny human saving throws! No, seriously. The ability modifier alone for it's wizard spells is evil, add in the fact that in everything except direct sunlight, shadow blend allows it to always get the +1 from cloaked casting.

Additionally, the BSD can jack up it's intelligence beyond the scope of the chart that shows bonus spells with normal wizard items and tomes (someone let me know if there's an expanded chart for intelligences above 50).

All in all, the BSD is a batman wizard with some spell stealing, beguiler casting, and just a pinch of Inspiration thrown into the mix and allowed to simmer. Stupidly large number of skill points per level.

Defense:
Batman versus combined with Predator. Full concealment in almost all conditions, fast healing, able to cast wizard spells in armor, and can blow people's minds just by taking it's mask off.

Weaknesses:

Deep and abiding abhorrence of all material plane life. Not enough hit points to be a full tank. Does not have full BAB. Is slightly less devastating under the direct glare of the sun. Has a gambling addiction stemming from his time gaining the skill prerequisite for fate spinner.

Talic
2008-04-05, 06:47 AM
Concentration checks? Who needs those? Dude, I'm popping you off at over 200 feet then teleporting to another location while naturally invisible. The only thing I'm missing are Rogue levels to increase damage output.

Rogue wouldn't increase damage output from 200 feet. :)

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-05, 07:05 AM
Rogue wouldn't increase damage output from 200 feet. :)

Sniper's Eye. Wonderful little spell that lets me sneak attack at range. What, you think if I'm trying to get a lot of SA damage that I wouldn't get some levels in Assassin?

avr
2008-04-05, 07:34 AM
Sphinxes are associated with lost and ancient lore, as are binders. This sphinx has learned the arts of pact magic - and, because she's particularly curious, those of the witch slayers who hunt anyone using pact magic.

Name: Cat in the Face
Build: Gynosphinx LA +4 / Binder 1 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 3 / Binder +12 // RHD 8 / Knight of the Sacred Seal +2 / Witch Slayer 5 / Horizon Walker 5
Starting Ability Scores: STR 22, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 16, WIS 16, CHA 24 (level ups into CHA)
Cheese Points: Zero
Minimum Playable Level: 8
Power Breaks: Level 15 – Momentary disjunction

{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Class features
1|Magical Beast HD 1|LA +1
2|Magical Beast HD 2|LA +2
3|Magical Beast HD 3|LA +3
4|Magical Beast HD 4|LA +4
5|Magical Beast HD 5|Binder 1|Soul binding (1 vestige)
6|Magical Beast HD 6|Knight of the Sacred Seal (Ronove) 1|Aligned strike, patron vestige
7|Magical Beast HD 7|KotSS 2|Vestige’s protection
8|Magical Beast HD 8|KotSS 3|Vestige’s protection aura
9|KotSS 4|Binder 2|Vestige’s power, suppress sign, pact augmentation (1 ability)
10|KotSS 5|Binder 3|Apotheosis, vestige’s surge
11|Witch Slayer 1|Binder 4|Smite spirit sharer
12|Witch Slayer 2|Binder 5|Mettle, soul binding(2 vestiges), pact augmentation (2 abilities)
13|Witch Slayer 3|Binder 6|Locate possession, soul guardian (immune to fear)
14|Witch Slayer 4|Binder 7|Slippery mind
15|Witch Slayer 5|Binder 8|Momentary disjunction
16|Horizon Walker 1|Binder 9|Terrain mastery
17|Horizon Walker 2|Binder 10|Terrain mastery, pact augmentation (3 abilities)
18|Horizon Walker 3|Binder 11|Terrain mastery, soul binding (3 vestiges)
19|Horizon Walker 4|Binder 12|Terrain mastery
20|Horizon Walker 5|Binder 13|Terrain mastery, soul guardian (immune to energy drain)[/table]

Feats
1: Flyby Attack
3: Weapon Focus (claws)
6: Power Attack
9: Expel Vestige
11: (Binder) Skilled Pact Making
12: Sudden Ability Focus
15: Endurance
18: Extend Supernatural Ability (Momentary Disjunction)
18: (Binder) Enlarge Supernatural Ability (Momentary Disjunction)

Offence:
Binding Ronove gives her an unarmed attack (damage as per monk) which she can use with iterative attacks, and she has full base attack, natural claw attacks, rake attacks and Pounce as a racial ability as well.
Once she gets Momentary Disjunction she should use it every combat. This ability disables all use of spells, spell-like & supernatural abilities as if an antimagic field was on the target for 1 round if they fail a will save, and it is a swift action to initiate which can be used every 5 rounds. Abuse to your hearts’ content. This is also useful when a smartass mage loses a riddle contest and decides to teleport away rather than pay up.

Defence:
Mettle and slippery mind from Witch Slayer, DR 10/magic from Knight of the Sacred Seal, immunity to fear, energy drain and negative levels from Binder, good all-round saves & a mix of d10 & d8 HD cover a fair bit.
Vestige’s protection adds her CHA bonus to her AC & reflex save for 1 round in every 5, vestige’s protection aura lets her add the same to adjacent friends as well.

Weaknesses:
Lack of hands. Binding Ronove gives you a limited ability to move things, but sphinxes have an embarrassing problem here.
Once the witch slayers figure out that she is a binder and hence a traitor to their order, she has a bunch of highly dedicated and skilled killers, some of whom have the same Momentary Disjunction ability noted above under Offence out to kill her.

Variations:
The Horizon Walker levels could be swapped out for any full base attack PrC without problems.

Chronos
2008-04-05, 12:14 PM
Additionally, the BSD can jack up it's intelligence beyond the scope of the chart that shows bonus spells with normal wizard items and tomes (someone let me know if there's an expanded chart for intelligences above 50).The chart extends indefinitely. Your ability score modifier is floor((score - 10)/2), or +20 for a 50 Int. Your maximum spell level for which you receive a bonus spell is equal to your Int modifier (or a 20th-level spell, relevant if you have that epic feat that gives you higher level spell slots). For every 4 levels below that, you gain an extra bonus spell at each level. So at the 50 Int that creature would have after all bonuses (remember that you already have four of your five level-up bonuses included in your RHD), you'd have one bonus spell each at levels 20, 19, 18, and 17, two bonus spells at 16, 15, 14, and 13, three at 12, 11, 10, and 9, four at 8, 7, 6, and 5, and five bonus spells each of levels 4, 3, 2, and 1.

Talya
2008-04-05, 01:56 PM
I'm too lazy for these.

Someone needs to do a Young Gold Dragon (14HD + 6 ECL)//wizard/prc.

Draz74
2008-04-05, 02:45 PM
Someone needs to do a Young Gold Dragon (14HD + 6 ECL)//wizard/prc.

Except for the rule, this time around, about how RHD and LA have to be on opposite sides of the character.

Squash Monster
2008-04-05, 02:53 PM
So, any complaints about the new monstrous crab entry? I'm thinking of making a second entry, but I want to get this one out of the way first.

Draz74
2008-04-05, 03:30 PM
So, any complaints about the new monstrous crab entry? I'm thinking of making a second entry, but I want to get this one out of the way first.

Well, I'm with the group that doesn't plan to vote for anything based on a creature that didn't have LA to begin with.

dspeyer
2008-04-05, 03:50 PM
"He was sure that a royal family of cats would answer every purpose. They would be as useful as any other royal family, they would know as much, they would have the same virtues and the same treacheries, the same disposition to get up shindies with other royal cats, they would be laughably vain and absurd and never know it, they would be wholly inexpensive; finally, they would have as sound a divine right as any other royal house."
--A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur' Court, Mark Twain

(Like many cat-lovers, Twain willfully ignored what cruel and viscous beasts cats really are.)

Greebo, the Cat King
Race: Spelltouched Lion
Build: rhd 5 / cleric of Hextor 4 / WarPriest 4 / Sacred Fist 7 // la 3 / wildshaping ranger 5 / MoMF 1 / scout 11
Initial Stats: STR: 28 DEX: 18 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 16 CHA: 10
Cheese: 1 (1-level dip into Master of Many Forms to get speech and humanoid wild shape)
Power break: 9 (speech in any form -- it never says to exclude his native one)

Make sure to take the swift hunter feat, and to boost wisdom a point before getting 7th level spells.

Spells: 13th level cleric (war, law and domination domains)
BAB: full except 3 lvls of rhd//la and 1 of cleric//MoMF which are 3/4
Skirmish: 4d6+4ac
Favored enemies: 3
Speed: 80
Skills: mostly 6 (ranger) or 8 (scout)

How it works:
From 160 ft away, after applying any desired buff spells ([un]righteous might is a good one), charge and grab your enemy. Make five attacks with 4d6 skirmish (and ideally 6 favored enemy) damage each, and end grappling them.

Weaknesses:
Most feats will go to meeting prerequisites, leaving only a handful for flexibility. Still combat reflexes (sacred fist prereq) is useful, and you've got two to spare before the scout bonuses kick in. I recommend power attack and improved grapple.

Rules notes:
Lions are LA --, spelltouched is LA +3, including for animals. I figure this makes spelltouched lions LA +3, since the template gives them playable intelligence.

I figure natural weapons qualify where a prerequisite says "improved unarmed strike". If not, the feat situation will get even tighter.

Zincorium
2008-04-05, 04:17 PM
(Like many cat-lovers, Twain willfully ignored what cruel and viscous beasts cats really are.)

Initially I was going to correct you on this and state that cats are 'vicious', but upon reflection, cats are pretty viscous when they want to be.


Rules notes:
Lions are LA --, spelltouched is LA +3, including for animals. I figure this makes spelltouched lions LA +3, since the template gives them playable intelligence.

I figure natural weapons qualify where a prerequisite says "improved unarmed strike". If not, the feat situation will get even tighter.

Same giant crab territory on the LA- if it didn't come with one, it's probably not suitable for a player character. Part of this is that you have no hands.

Additionally, natural weapons don't count as unarmed strikes at all, let alone as a feat. A lenient DM might let you get away with the Improved Natural Attack, but we're talking RAW for the purposes of competition.

Lastly, Sacred Fist is well into violating the spirit of the ban on dual-progression PrCs, so I don't suggest trying it in an actual game.

Squash Monster
2008-04-05, 04:24 PM
Wait. Why can't monsters have an LA? If we can't use creatures that don't have an LA as monsters, then what exactly can we use them as?

Zincorium
2008-04-05, 04:38 PM
Wait. Why can't monsters have an LA? If we can't use creatures that don't have an LA as monsters, then what exactly can we use them as?

It isn't that they're inappropriate as monster, but if some of us feel that it goes against the spirit of the competition, we're entitled not to vote for them. It's mostly a matter of a reasonable playing field- if you want anything at all to go you can start doing things like hellwasp swarms (immune to weapon damage and individually targeted spells).

Kurald Galain
2008-04-05, 04:38 PM
Wait. Why can't monsters have an LA? If we can't use creatures that don't have an LA as monsters, then what exactly can we use them as?

The easy answer to that is to tack on a template that does have an LA.

Talic
2008-04-05, 05:04 PM
LA: -- + LA: 2 does not equal LA: 2.

LA: -- means: Not suitable as a playable race by level 20. Since these are being calculated to ECL 20, those creatures without one can't be balanced to the Competition.

That's why the monsters need to have an LA. There are several monsters of almost any type (sorry, Ooze) that have LA. Now, if a creature has HD of 4, and an LA of 4, you're alright using an inherited template to boost it up to qualifying.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-05, 05:14 PM
LA: -- + LA: 2 does not equal LA: 2.

No, but if a monster that has no level adjustment is paired with a template that does have a level adjustment, the resulting combination does have a level adjustment. It doesn't have two adjustments that combine to a bigger one, but nevertheless it has a level adjustment.

Besides, it never said in the OP's rules that the LA was not allowed to come from the template.

Talic
2008-04-05, 05:26 PM
Yes, is has one. That LA is as follows:

LA: --.

Otherwise, the following would be true:

Half Fiend Black Dragon:


Wyrmling: HD 4, LA: +6 (+3 race, +3 template)
Very Young: HD 7, LA: +6 (+3 race, +3 template)
Young: HD 10, LA: +6 (+3 race, +3 template)
Juvenile: HD 13, LA: +7 (+4 race, +3 template)
Young adult: HD 16, LA: +3 (LA: - +3 template)

LA + template goes as follows:

Wyrmling: 10
Very Young: 13
Young: 16
Juvenile: 20
Young Adult: 19 !?

By your gauge, a young adult with 3 more HD, more BAB, Str, Con, Saves, abilities, and Breath damage (and DC) , is LESS of an ECL than a Juvenile!?

That is why you're wrong here.

dspeyer
2008-04-05, 08:24 PM
There are three types of creatures with LA: --


Those which are too powerful to have an ECL<=20
Those which have insufficient free will to be playable
Those which are too stupid to take player classes


The first too are simply unplayable, but the last ought to become playable when in-game magic boosts the int. I'm not sure what rules have been published for it. If none, or incomplete, it falls to DM's discretion, which is poor for this challenge. For my lion, add LA to taste and subtract the levels off the top of scout. It's more of a flavor than crunch entry anyway.

There really ought to be rules for determining the LA of an animal raised to sentience. Does anyone know of any? Has anyone played one?

Squash Monster
2008-04-05, 09:55 PM
If this competition was judged based on power then I'd concede the point. However, the voting has never really been based on such.

Talic
2008-04-05, 09:57 PM
There are three types of creatures with LA: --


Those which are too powerful to have an ECL<=20
Those which have insufficient free will to be playable
Those which are too stupid to take player classes


The first too are simply unplayable, but the last ought to become playable when in-game magic boosts the int. I'm not sure what rules have been published for it. If none, or incomplete, it falls to DM's discretion, which is poor for this challenge. For my lion, add LA to taste and subtract the levels off the top of scout. It's more of a flavor than crunch entry anyway.

There really ought to be rules for determining the LA of an animal raised to sentience. Does anyone know of any? Has anyone played one?

There aren't any hard and fast rules for applying level adjustments to creatures. The crab, oozes, and the like would def have one though.

There's also a fourth category:

4) Possesses abilities designers did not want PC's to have, due to the fact that they're highly unbalancing. The Swarm shifter template is an example of this.

And this competition is based on everyone having the same amount to work with. When we make older dragons have lower adjustments, that's when this is not true. It encourages ppl to pick monsters with a LA -- and slap a template to give it 2 int, and poof we're ahead of the curve.

It's an attempt to bypass the rules of the game, not just the rules of the competition. We wouldn't let someone get away with an 8 dex build with dodge, why is this any different?

Squash Monster
2008-04-05, 11:51 PM
"Name": The Naughty Sorceress
(Yes, I'm aware she's not actually a sorceress. But "The Naughty Bard" isn't a KoL reference, now is it)

The Idea: basically gishzilla plus the ability to spam Charm spells

Race: Succubus

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features
1 | Succubus LA | Outsider Hitdice | 1 | d8 |
2 | Succubus LA | Outsider Hitdice | 2 | d8 |
3 | Succubus LA | Outsider Hitdice | 3 | d8 |
4 | Succubus LA | Outsider Hitdice | 4 | d8 |
5 | Succubus LA | Outsider Hitdice | 5 | d8 |
6 | Succubus LA | Outsider Hitdice | 6/1 | d8 |
7 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest| 6/1 | d8 | Bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1
8 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 7/2 | d8 | Rebuke Undead
9 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 8/3 | d8 | Inspire competence
10 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 9/4 | d8 | Divine spell resistance 15
11 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 9/4 | d8 |
12 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 10/5 | d8 | Suggestion, siphon spell power
13 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 11/6/1 | d8 |
14 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 12/7/2 | d8 | Inspire courage +2, divine spell resistance 20
15 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 12/7/2 | d8 | Inspire greatness
16 | Divine Bard | Ur-Priest | 13/8/3 | d8 | Steal spell-like ability
17 | Divine Bard | Fighter | 14/9/4 | d10 | Bonus fighter feat
18 | Divine Bard | Fighter | 15/10/5 | d10 | Song of freedom, bonus fighter feat
19 | Divine Bard | Arcane Duelist | 16/11/6/1 | d8 | Chosen weapon, enchant chosen weapon +1
20 | Divine Bard | Arcane Duelist | 17/12/7/2 | d8 | Inspire courage +3, apparent defense
[/table]

Expected HP:
18d8 + 2d10 + 60 = 152 average

Casts as:
14th level Bard (Caster level 14, 5th level spells)
10th level Ur-Priest (Caster level 20, 9th level spells)

Feats:
1st: Education
3rd: Iron Will
6th: Spell Focus (Evil)
9th: Snowflake Wardance
12th: Flyby Attack
15th: Extend Spell
17th Fighter: Dodge
18th: Divine Metamagic: Persist
18th Fighter: Mobility

Base Stats:
Racial modifiers: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +6, Wis +4, Cha +16
STR: 10
DEX: 10
CON: 16
WIS: 18
INT: 14
CHA: 30
Put your bonuses into Cha, except the one you put in Wis.

Strengths:
Full set of divine spells.
At will spells, including Charm monster (DC 28) and Greater Teleport.
Insanely high charisma = insanely high save DCs (and yes, Bard does have a few save or dies).
Cha to attack through Snowflake Wardance.
Cha to AC through Arcane Duelist.

Weaknesses:
Misses out on 6th level bard spells.
Mediocre fort saves.

Items:
One-handed slashing weapon is mandatory.
Slippers of Battledancing are highly recommended.
Generic caster items are of course useful.
Any charisma enhancement item increases her Rebuke Undead attempts per day to enough for a third daily Persist.

How it works:
Nothing too complicated here. She has an insane number of Rebuke Undead attempts from her charisma score, so she can persist a pair of her spells per day (a third available with a any charisma enhancing item). Bard and Ur-Priest both have a lovely selection of buffs. Before a fight, she'll stall and cast Charm Monster as much as possible. She should be able to stall for quite some time too, with Glibness and a +17 cha mod. If a fight does break out, she takes to the skies and begins Snowflake Wardance. Since she has Flyby Attack, she can act as if using Spring Attack, which will trigger the effects of the Slippers of Battledancing if she sprung for them. The two stack nicely, as one replaces Strength with Charisma and the other adds Charisma to hit, for a total of +34 to hit and +17 to damage. This, along with her Ur-Priest buffs and the fact that the party's fighter is probably her puppet should be plenty. If she's level 20, she also has that +17 to AC.

Playability:
Available at level 7, which is her CR and as a vanilla succubus with very good stats she should be a pretty scary foe. Every level from there on makes her progressively scarier.

Draz74
2008-04-06, 12:14 AM
I might just be biased, but it seems a very similar concept and a fairly similar build to my entry. :smallannoyed:

dspeyer
2008-04-06, 01:00 AM
Clearly mammals aren't my forte.

Telcontar, the Wanderer
Race: Half-Air-Elemental Wyrmling Brass Dragon
Build: rhd 4 / swashbuckler 3 / warlock 13 // la 5 / scout 3 / wilderness rogue 12
Initial stats: STR: 10 DEX: 18 CON: 18 INT: 16 WIS: 10 CHA: 14
Invocations: Breath of the Night, Spiderwalk, Entropic Warding, Flee the Scene, Walk Unseen, Voracious Dispelling, Vitrolic Blast, Wall of Perilous Flame
Important feats: flyby attack, great flyby attack, improved flight, swift ambusher
Important skills: spot, listen, hide (size bonus), move silently, swim, concentration, knowledge(geography), knowledge(the planes), survival (these last three guarantee he will never be lost)

Telcontar is primarily about movement. He can walk, fly, burrow or climb without checks. He can squeeze through tiny spaces. He can pass through hazards of fire and cold without ill effect. He can even make short dimension-door hops. The only thing he can't do trivially is swim, but with max-ranks and light armor, he shouldn't be too bad at it (swim is important because it applies not just to water, but to lava -- villians use lava as a barrier; they don't expect heroes to use it as concealment).

Telcontar is also an expert at seeing (keen senses, blindsense and darkvision) and not being seen (tiny, breath of night, walk unseen). Key points for any scout.

When it comes to violence, Telcontar's preferred tactic is to swoop through his enemies using great flyby attack with skirmish and sneak attack, then re-invoke walk unseen, shift to an unexpected location and do it again. If he needs to attack from range, he can use eldritch blast instead. Against a large party, or one he doesn't want to kill, he has a cone of sleeping breath.

Talic
2008-04-06, 01:43 AM
4 Racial HD + 5 LA ??
I think the minimum for this challenge is 10. Advance the Dragon to 5 HD, remove a class level, and you're good though.

dspeyer
2008-04-06, 02:07 AM
4 Racial HD + 5 LA ??
I think the minimum for this challenge is 10. Advance the Dragon to 5 HD, remove a class level, and you're good though.

Expletive! I missed that rule.

Yeah, add 1 hd, drop the last warlock, drop wall of perilous flame.

That means there's no longer 13 levels in warlock :-(. It had seemed appropriate. Ah, well.

It doesn't actually effect the build much.

Talic
2008-04-06, 02:23 AM
Yeah, this one's got a few extra's. I'm holding off on MY nymph build, as it uses an acquired template. The title, for whatever challenge I use it in, is "The Terror of Mistywood Vale". Fun times.

SurlySeraph
2008-04-06, 02:50 AM
Damn.

I used to have a build that was PERFECT for this, but I lost track of it and I no longer have one of the books I need for it (Savage Species).

It was a soul-eating flying half-dragon anthropomorphic land squid, if you're curious.

Talic
2008-04-06, 02:52 AM
Points for resembling the Flying Spaghetti monster, but I think that has more than one template.

Squash Monster
2008-04-06, 10:45 AM
I might just be biased, but it seems a very similar concept and a fairly similar build to my entry. :smallannoyed:I actually didn't see your build. Now that I look at it, yeah, I can sorta see what you're talking about. However, I really don't think both being evil high-charisma bards is that much of a similarity. The other half is completely different, what with yours being a crusader and mine being an ur-priest. However, if it bugs you that much I can either withdraw the entry or switch it to sorcerer.

Actually, if being a sorcerer instead of a bard is enough to satiate you, I'm entirely up for that. She'd gain seventh level spells and lose +15 to hit, which is a fair trade normally but she's already got another +15 to hit so it's hardly needed.

TRM
2008-04-06, 02:23 PM
Initially I was going to correct you on this and state that cats are 'vicious', but upon reflection, cats are pretty viscous when they want to be.



Same giant crab territory on the LA- if it didn't come with one, it's probably not suitable for a player character. Part of this is that you have no hands.

He could change the lion to an anthropomorphic lion and then I think the monster would have a base LA (don't have Savage Species with me right now).

Chronos
2008-04-06, 05:39 PM
OK, I think I've settled on a monster, and how to use it effectively.

Winky
Build:Half-celestial blink dog 4/Scout 3/Ninja 1/Wildshape ranger 12 // LA 6/Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Rogue 13
Medium Outsider (augmented magical beast, native)
Starting ability scores: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 12, Wis 24, Cha 12 (boost wis)
Final ability scores: Str 12, Dex 20, Con 26, Int 14, Wis 36, Cha 12
Minimum Playable Level: 7
Power Break: 13 (Wild shape)
Cheese points: 3 (ignoring multiclass penalties, dips in Ninja and Fighter)
{table=head]ECL | Left class | Right class | Feats | Precision damage | Special
1 | Blink dog HD 1 | LA 1 | Sacred Vow, Track B | | Blink Dog traits, Half Celestial traits
2 | HD 2 | LA 2 | | |
3 | HD 3 | LA 3 | Vow of Poverty | |
4 | HD 4 | LA 4 | Touch of Golden Ice | |
5 | Scout 1 | LA 5 | | 1d6 | Trapfinding
6 | Scout 2 | LA 6 | Improved Initiative, Intuitive Attack | 1d6 | Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge
7 | Scout 3 | Sneak Attack Fighter 1 | | 1d6+1d6, +1 AC | Fast Movement +10
8 | Ninja 1 | Rogue 1 | Sanctify Natural Attack | 1d6+2d6+1d6, +1 AC | Ki power, Wis to AC
9 | Wildshape Ranger 1 | Rogue 2 | Swift Hunter | 2d6+2d6+1d6, +1 AC | 1st favored enemy, Wild Empathy, Evasion
10 | Ranger 2 | Rogue 3 | Sacred Strike | 2d6+3d8+1d6, +1 AC | 2nd favored enemy, trap sense +1
11 | Ranger 3 | Rogue 4 | Endurance | 2d6+3d8+1d6, +1 AC | Improved uncanny dodge
12 | Ranger 4 | Rogue 5 | Nemesis, Improved Skirmish| 4d6+4d8+1d6, +4 AC | Animal companion
13 | Ranger 5 | Rogue 6 | | 4d6+4d8+1d6, +4 AC | Wildshape 1/day, trap sense +2
14 | Ranger 6 | Rogue 7 | Vow of Abstinence | 5d6+5d8+1d6, +4 AC | Wildshape 2/day
15 | Ranger 7 | Rogue 8 | Multiattack | 5d6+5d8+1d6, +4 AC | Wildshape 3/day, Woodland Stride, 3rd favored enemy
16 | Ranger 8 | Rogue 9 | Exalted Wild Shape | 5d6+6d8+1d6, +5 AC | Swift tracker, trap sense +3
17 | Ranger 9 | Rogue 10 | | 5d6+6d8+1d6 +2 Str, +5 AC| Crippling strike
18 | Ranger 10 | Rogue 11 | Vow of Chastity, Craven | 6d6+7d8+1d6+18 +2 Str, +5 AC | Wildshape 4/day
19 | Ranger 11 | Rogue 12 | | 6d6+7d8+1d6+19 +2 Str, +5 AC| Trap sense +4
20 | Ranger 12 | Rogue 13 | Vow of Obedience | 6d6+8d8+1d6+20 +2 Str, +6 AC | 4th favored enemy, Skill Mastery[/table]

Winky has a lot of bonus damage, and thanks to his Blink Dog traits, she can almost always use it. Every round, she Dimension Doors as a free action (at least 10 feet, preferably 20 if enemies are placed right) to trigger skirmish, and if no other means of denying Dex are available, she can blink as a free action to deny her opponent's Dex bonus (thus triggering Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike). If she doesn't want to deal with the 20% miss chance from her own blinking, she can also almost always flank (though this doesn't trigger Sudden Strike). Every attack also triggers Golden Ice, versus evil opponents, and every sneak attack deals 2 strength damage. All of this bonus damage applies to her entire full attack (6 attacks, in celestial fleshraker form, plus poison on most of them).

Her AC is astronomical (46 plus whatever Dex modifier her current form has naturally), thanks to the bonuses from Vow of Poverty, Ninja, and Skirmish, and she has a 50% miss chance from blinking (which she's always doing when not attacking). She also has energy resistance, damage reduction, and spell resistance, making her very difficult to take down.

Drawbacks:
No hands (unless wildshaped into a primate)
Probably can't talk most human languages
Might technically have to be a cohort

Talic
2008-04-06, 11:34 PM
Only question Icould see is whether or not Dimension door qualifies as "moving". Still, it's open for interpretation, and is a good build. I was actually looking at a way to do Blink dog.

Min Playable level, though, is 6.

Nebo_
2008-04-07, 12:39 AM
Only question Icould see is whether or not Dimension door qualifies as "moving". Still, it's open for interpretation, and is a good build. I was actually looking at a way to do Blink dog.

Min Playable level, though, is 6.

DD does count as moving for the purposes of Skirmish. That begs the question: How are you attacking after you use DD? The spell states that you can't take actions after you use it.

Talic
2008-04-07, 12:43 AM
DD does count as moving for the purposes of Skirmish. That begs the question: How are you attacking after you use DD? The spell states that you can't take actions after you use it.

Blink Dog's text for the ability allows it.

Nebo_
2008-04-07, 12:47 AM
Ignore me.

Chronos
2008-04-07, 02:36 PM
Min Playable level, though, is 6.Didn't Duke say somewhere that you needed to have a class level on top of the LA before it was valid? Eh, either way, it doesn't make much difference... It's not like anyone will have a build playable at 1 in this one.

Draz74
2008-04-07, 02:53 PM
I actually didn't see your build. Now that I look at it, yeah, I can sorta see what you're talking about. However, I really don't think both being evil high-charisma bards is that much of a similarity. The other half is completely different, what with yours being a crusader and mine being an ur-priest. However, if it bugs you that much I can either withdraw the entry or switch it to sorcerer.

Well, the other thing is that my "Alu-Demon" template actually means "Half-Succubus."

But meh, whatever. Sure, you could switch it to Sorcerer. That way, even if we're both using various means to add CHA to attacks, damage, and AC, we won't be using the same method (Snowflake Wardance) to do so anymore.

On the other hand, Galadriel actually casts more like a Sorcerer than a Bard, thanks to Sublime Chord. So I'm not sure the switch would make them any more different.

If you do stick with bard, shouldn't you make it the Divine Bard variant, so you can use your DMM(Persist) on your Bard spells? I just skipped doing that because Sublime Chord requires arcane casting.

Squash Monster
2008-04-07, 03:12 PM
I switched it to divine bard, because that's a good idea. Thank you. If Snowflake Wardance is all that bugs you I can replace that with Practiced Spellcaster. I hardly think the difference between +30 to hit and +15 to hit (before BAB) really matters.

Duke of URL
2008-04-09, 07:53 AM
ENTRIES CLOSED - PLEASE DO NOT SUBMIT OR UPDATE ENTRIES AFTER THIS POINT

I'll try to get the list of entries compiled soon for voting, but this looks to be one of the larger sets, so don't hold your breath. :smallamused:

SamTheCleric
2008-04-09, 07:56 AM
This is totally your fault, Duke.

*holds breath*

Chronos
2008-04-11, 10:14 PM
For convenience, links and race:
Skippy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4134052&postcount=10) (half-blue-dragon frost giant)
Inevitable (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4134273&postcount=12) (half-green-dragon troll)
Mormo of Midnight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4134307&postcount=13) (Naztharune rakshasa)
The Proof is in the Pudding (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4135320&postcount=21) (fiendish black pudding)
Tainted Sahaguin Battle Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4135510&postcount=23) (fetch mutated sahaguin)
The Green Lantern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4135713&postcount=26) (phrenic will-o'-wisp)
Reginleif (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4136170&postcount=29) (valkyrie)
Eleanor, Guardian of Wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4136522&postcount=35) (young silver dragon)
Wrath (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4136680&postcount=37) (half-farspawn azer)
The Shadow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4137473&postcount=45) (half-fiend manticore)
Galadriel of Mordor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4137954&postcount=52) (alu-demon nymph)
The Great White Whale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4138833&postcount=58) (were-whale mountain troll)
The Jabberwocky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4140222&postcount=69) (half-farspawn dragonne)
That Damned Hellcrab (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4140860&postcount=72) (fiendish monstrous crab)
Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4142057&postcount=77) (illithid)
Mindflayer son of Mindflayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144035&postcount=81) (half-farspawn ulitharid)
The Shoggoth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144316&postcount=83) (silthilar)
Don't make me angry... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144836&postcount=84) (half-dragon stone giant)
Judge, Jury, and Executioner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4145991&postcount=93) (huge half-celestial couatl)
Agent 007 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4146275&postcount=95) (phrenic doppleganger)
Your ex-girlfriend from Hell. Literally. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4147284&postcount=103) (erinyes)
Don't make me angry... Four-legged edition! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4148016&postcount=104) (half-fiend centaur)
A Blacker Shade of Dark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4150692&postcount=113) (black ethergaunt)
Cat in the face (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4151047&postcount=116) (gynosphinx)
Greebo, the Cat King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4152776&postcount=122) (spelltouched lion)
The Naughty Sorceress (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4154588&postcount=133) (succubus)
Telcontar, the Wanderer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4154789&postcount=135) (half-air-elemental wyrmling brass dragon)
Winky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4157520&postcount=143) (half-celestial blink dog)

Squash Monster
2008-04-12, 10:04 AM
So.... voting categories?

Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 07:41 AM
Voting open until noon PST, Tuesday, April 29, 2008 in the following categories:

Most Magnificent Monster: Best at meeting the overall challenge goal

Huh?: Meets the challenge goal, but with a very unusual combination of race/classes/feats.

Party Animal: You'd thank your DM for pulling this critter out to face you... if you weren't running away from it so fast.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-24, 07:47 AM
Most Magnificent Monster: The Great White Whale. Because he's a were-whale mountain troll. That's scary.

Huh?: Proof Is In the Pudding - NOM NOM NOM

Party Animal: um, The Naughty Sorceress... cause.. well. nevermind. :smallbiggrin:

Eran of Arcadia
2008-04-24, 09:22 AM
Party Animal: um, The Naughty Sorceress... cause.. well. nevermind. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, I always thought Ed was the real party animal myself.

Squash Monster
2008-04-24, 12:30 PM
Most Magnificent Monster: Proof Is In the Pudding - NOM NOM NOM

Huh?: The Great White Whale. Because he's a were-whale mountain troll. That's weird.

Party Animal: Greebo, the Cat King

Chronos
2008-04-24, 06:19 PM
Most Magnificent: Agent 007. Heavy skills, and great synergy between looking like others, knowing what they know, and doing what they do. Mormo of Midnight is a close runner-up, though (I like stealth).

Huh?: That Damned Hellcrab. The LA thing probably isn't legal, but I still like the notion of worshiping the ideals of "wait for food, grab food, bring food back, eat it". Runners-up are Pudding and Green Lantern.

Party Animal: Galadriel of Mordor. I'm a big Tolkien fan, and this seems to do a pretty good job of capturing Galadriel as she would be with the Ring.

avr
2008-04-27, 10:58 PM
Most Magnificent: Mormo of Midnight. Scary effective & I liked the description.

Huh?: Telcontar, the Wanderer. Because there's something weird about reaching ECL 20 / character level 16 within 5 years of hatching, which is when wyrmlings become very young dragons I think.

Party Animal: Galadriel of Mordor. Very very cool.

Draz74
2008-04-27, 11:12 PM
Weren't we promised a separate "Literary Reference" category? :smallwink:

Duke of URL
2008-05-01, 11:34 AM
I'm going to keep voting open until Friday, noon PST to see if we can get some consensus here... :smalleek:

Draz74
2008-05-06, 10:51 PM
Most Magnificent: I'll vote Mormo so we get a conclusion.

Huh?: Winky! Funny concept.

Party Animal: The Shadow. I would definitely be scared of that much precision damage. And Manticores are a cool, under-used monster.