The Studied Sorcerer [PrC]

[Jack_Simth]

The Studied Sorcerer
Many Sorcerers wend their way through life, not caring how their magic works, just knowing that it does. Some learn to apply modifications to their casting, bending their magics to greater effect with the expenditure of a little extra time. A few delve into the realms of magical knoweledge enough to put the extra time for bending a spell hours in advance of the actual casting... and a select few learn to read a Wizard's spellbook....

The Studied Sorcerer
Hit Die: d4

Requirements:
To Qualify as a Studied Sorcerer, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:
Skills: Knowledge(Arcana) 8 ranks and Spellcraft 8 ranks
Spells: Able to spontaneously cast 2nd level Arcane spells
Feats: Arcane Preparation and Skill Focus (Spellcraft).

Class Skills:The Studied Sorcerer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (alchemy) (Int), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int Modifier

Table: The Studied Sorcerer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells per Day / Spells Know

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Book Learning, Lost Slots 1|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Lost Slots 2|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Lost Slots 3|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Lost Slots 4|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Lost Slots 5|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Lost Slots 6|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Lost Slots 7|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Lost Slots 8|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Lost Slots 9|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Highest Magic|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new Studied Sorcerer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day and spells known as if he had also gained a level in whatever spontaneous arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spontaneous arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast spells before he became a Studied Sorcerer, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Studied Sorcerer for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Book Learning: A Studied Sorcerer gains the ability to prepare spontaneous spell slots with spells out of a spellbook, or scribe spells into a spellbook, as a Wizard. Such spells can be of a level no higher than the Studied Sorcerer's class level (e.g., a Sorcerer-5/Studied Sorcerer-3 could prepare a 3rd level spell out of a Wizard's spellbook into a 3rd level slot, but could not prepare a 4th level spell out of the same book), and must be on the Studied Sorcerer's class spell list. The Studied Sorcerer does not, however, gain the two free spells at level up that a Wizard does (although the Studied Sorcerer continues to advance spontaneous spells known without interruption).

Lost Slots: This power does not come without price, for at each level of the Studied Sorcerer PrC (except tenth), the Studied Sorcerer permanently loses two spell slots of the listed level. If the Studied Sorcerer does not have enough spell slot of that level available, the Studied Sorcerer permanently loses the spell slots of that level as soon as the Studied Sorcerer would normally gain access to enough spell slots of that level. This loss does not affect the spell slot gained through the Highest Magic class feature.

Highest Magic: At tenth level, the Studied Sorcerer gains a single spell slot of a level one higher than the Studied Sorcerer could otherwise cast (this is dynamic - if the Studied Sorcerer gains this ability while able to cast seventh level spells normally, it is an 8th level spell slot; if the Studied Sorcerer later gains the ability to cast 8th level spells normally, it becomes a 9th level spell slot). The Studied Sorcerer does not gain any bonus spell slots at this spell level (even if the Studied Sorcerers primary spellcasting statistic would normally be high enough to grant a bonus spell at this level), and this spell slot cannot be spontaneously filled - it must contain a prepared spell, or be left blank. This spell slot is never affected by the Lost Slots class drawback.


So... how broken is this?

Edit: Doubled spell slot loss 4/4/2008

[Prometheus]

I think your biggest problem is that there is a penalty associated with advancing in the class levels 2 through 9, and very few would take more than a single level dip. Probably a feat or two would be appropriate substitute for the entire class

[Baron Corm]

I think your biggest problem is that there is a penalty associated with advancing in the class levels 2 through 9, and very few would take more than a single level dip. Probably a feat or two would be appropriate substitute for the entire class

If I read it correctly, he's allowing sorcerers to learn all the spells on his spell list, as long as he spends the gold to write them down, at the cost of one spell slot per spell level. My first thought was "this is way too good and could never be balanced". Certainly not "this could be replaced with a feat".

[Jack_Simth]

If I read it correctly, he's allowing sorcerers to learn all the spells on his spell list, as long as he spends the gold to write them down, at the cost of one spell slot per spell level. My first thought was "this is way too good and could never be balanced". Certainly not "this could be replaced with a feat".
Eventually, yes.

To do so, however, they have to drop at least 1/2 their spellcasting class levels into the PrC. And to make use of them, they have to be prepared (as a Wizard), and they're losing spell slots, and not keeping up with Wizard spell access (until the 10th level capstone ability; a Sorcerer-6/Studied Sorcerer-10 would have access to a 9th level spell slot).

If you compare the Sorcerer-5/SS-5 to a Wizard-10...

Sorcerer has spent two feats to qualify, feats which aren't overly useful.
Wizard has two bonus feats and Scribe Scroll, plus familiar advancement.
Wizard pre-bonus spells per day are 4/4/4/3/3/2, Sorcerer's pre-bonus Spells per day are 6/5/5/5/4/2 - they have the same number of highest-level spells per day (unless the Wizard specializes).
The Sorcerer's free spells (those gained from level up) are just the Sorcerer progression - 9/5/4/3/2/1, where the Wizard's free spells will generally look like All Cantrips/5+Starting Int Modifier/4/4/4/4.
The Wizard has the more useful primary spellcasting stat for a pure caster (Intelligence grants skill points and bonuses to certain skills; Charisma grants bonuses to certain skills, and that's it).
The Wizard has the ability to potentially know every spell he would be capable of casting, as does the Studied Sorcerer.
The Wizard has access to other PrC's for five of his ten levels, that could get him, say, the ability to spontaneously fill an open slot with any PHB spell once per day (Mage of the Arcane Order-5); get more skill points, Use Magic Device as a class skill, something akin to Bardic Knoweledge, and the equivalent of two feats (Loremaster-3); the ability to boost save DC's and force rerolls (Fatespinner-3), or other stuff; the Studied Sorcerer doesn't have this option if he wants to continue gaining access to higher level prepared spells.
The Studied Sorcerer has the option to spontaneously cast non-prepared spell slots with a spell off the Sorcerer's spell known progression (the Sorcerer's free spells).
The Wizard is sharply limited in what he can do if he loses access to his spellbook. The Studied Sorcerer still has normal Sorcerer spells known to fall back on.

Is the benefit of being able to prepare a portion of your spells for the day really that strong?

[JoshuaZ]

So they get almost all the advantages of a wizard and keep the advantages of being a sorcerer and don't lose any caster levels? This is pretty overpowered. If it lost a few caster levels it might be more balanced. Also, how would this interact with the Ultimate Magus PRC?

[Baron Corm]

I take back what I said, because I thought he could cast all those spells spontaneously. Yeah. It does seem like the ultimate magus PrC, with much lower spells per day, and many less feats, but access to higher level spells (I don't think ultimate maguses can get above 8th level spells?). Seems about right I guess *shrug*.

[Jack_Simth]

So they get almost all the advantages of a wizard and keep the advantages of being a sorcerer and don't lose any caster levels?
You mean like how a Wizard can already craft Runestaves to gain nearly all the spontaneous casting of a Sorcerer, with just a feat, some GP, and some XP? Or how a Wizard can deal with the class's endurance issues by crafting wands, scrolls, and staves with the free feats they get from taking levels in Wizard?

What's the problem with reversing the issue?

Compared to a normal Sorcerer, he's got fewer spells per day.
Compared to a normal Wizard, he's got slower spell access (until capstone).
The PrC trades endurance for long-term flexibility.

This is pretty overpowered. If it lost a few caster levels it might be more balanced.
In a lot of ways I'm looking for a decent substitute weakening mechanism for lost spell advancement - caster players interested in character power avoid anything that costs caster levels (because spell access is just that good). At the same time, designers want their PrC's to be used, so designers who make caster PrC's that give nifty stuff and full caster advancement - which leads to broken PrC's, especially for base caster classes that are essentially devoid of class features other than their spellcasting (most notably the Sorcerer, Wizard, and Cleric). For most Full Casters, suddenly there's no mechanical reason not to take a PrC, and plenty of mechanical reasons to take one.

I'm basically taking a cue from the Archmage's costs - it's the only PrC I've run across that's full advancement such that even those interested in mechanical power will take it, but at the same time has an actual mechanically meaningful cost associated with it (spell slots lost).

Am I making sense? I'm avoiding caster level loss, not because I'm trying to make it an overpowered class, but because I've come to the conclusion that an alternate mechanism is needed. Would it be better if the penalties were to spells known, or if it were two per level, rather than one?

Also, how would this interact with the Ultimate Magus PRC?
Then you're lacking a prepared spellcasting class to apply that side of the Ultimate Magus PrC advancement to, even though you qualify for the Ultimate Magus PrC.


I take back what I said, because I thought he could cast all those spells spontaneously.
And it still wouldn't be as broken as the Warmage-5/Rainbow Servant-10 using Text Trumps Table (entire Cleric list, spontaneously, plus a few domains, special abilities, Warmage spells, light armor, full progression).

Yeah. It does seem like the ultimate magus PrC, with much lower spells per day, and many less feats, but access to higher level spells (I don't think ultimate maguses can get above 8th level spells?). Seems about right I guess *shrug*.
Ultimate Magus can arrange for 9th level Wizard spells with an entry of Wizard-4/Sorcerer-1 and Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer), as the low advancement levels focus on caster level, rather than effective class level.

[JoshuaZ]

You mean like how a Wizard can already craft Runestaves to gain nearly all the spontaneous casting of a Sorcerer, with just a feat, some GP, and some XP? Or how a Wizard can deal with the class's endurance issues by crafting wands, scrolls, and staves with the free feats they get from taking levels in Wizard?

What's the problem with reversing the issue?

Compared to a normal Sorcerer, he's got fewer spells per day.
Compared to a normal Wizard, he's got slower spell access (until capstone).
The PrC trades endurance for long-term flexibility.

Well he has fewer spells per a day and slower spell access but other than that he has almost all the advantages of both. He has a ton of spontaneous spells and he can prepare stuff too.



In a lot of ways I'm looking for a decent substitute weakening mechanism for lost spell advancement - caster players interested in character power avoid anything that costs caster levels (because spell access is just that good). At the same time, designers want their PrC's to be used, so designers who make caster PrC's that give nifty stuff and full caster advancement - which leads to broken PrC's, especially for base caster classes that are essentially devoid of class features other than their spellcasting (most notably the Sorcerer, Wizard, and Cleric). For most Full Casters, suddenly there's no mechanical reason not to take a PrC, and plenty of mechanical reasons to take one.

I'm basically taking a cue from the Archmage's costs - it's the only PrC I've run across that's full advancement such that even those interested in mechanical power will take it, but at the same time has an actual mechanically meaningful cost associated with it (spell slots lost).

Am I making sense? I'm avoiding caster level loss, not because I'm trying to make it an overpowered class, but because I've come to the conclusion that an alternate mechanism is needed. Would it be better if the penalties were to spells known, or if it were two per level, rather than one?

Two per a level rather than one might help. I see what you are trying to do but you need to keep in mind that the Archmage spell-slot loss doesn't matter as much for a sorceror as it does for a wizard since a sorc has more spell slots so the proportional loss is less.



Then you're lacking a prepared spellcasting class to apply that side of the Ultimate Magus PrC advancement to, even though you qualify for the Ultimate Magus PrC.

Er yeah, this is actually really bad while you are correct to say that



Ultimate Magus can arrange for 9th level Wizard spells with an entry of Wizard-4/Sorcerer-1 and Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer), as the low advancement levels focus on caster level, rather than effective class level.

if I take this PRC and then take first level UM I get an additional level of sorcerer, I get an extra level 1 spell known (which if I'm clever is something like a cleric spell with arcane disciple) and I get +1 to my caster level. Heck, if I then progress with the ultimate magus I get all the advantages of the UM with a total of +4 to the my caster level and yet more additional spontaneous spells (I can't do that until epic but even taking 5 levels of UM and 10 levels of Studied Sorceror would be pretty hard to top).

I'm also worried how this might interact with the specialized arcane casters like Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage. With either of the first two you'll end up with a very long spell list and the ability to prepare additional utility spells. Properly done, that might be able lead to batman on steroids.

[DracoDei]

Well, the end effect is reducing them to the spells-per-day of a specialist wizard... if that angle of thinking about it helps anyone...

[Jack_Simth]

Well he has fewer spells per a day and slower spell access but other than that he has almost all the advantages of both. He has a ton of spontaneous spells and he can prepare stuff too.


Two per a level rather than one might help. I see what you are trying to do but you need to keep in mind that the Archmage spell-slot loss doesn't matter as much for a sorceror as it does for a wizard since a sorc has more spell slots so the proportional loss is less.

Okay. Boosted to two per level.


Er yeah, this is actually really bad while you are correct to say that

Lower level is "-" - you don't get progression at those levels, because you're adding to not applicable.

Alternately, I'm not worried about what someone can do with this + non-core. There's too much non-core stuff to worry about everything printed by WotC. If it's reasonably balanced with itself and Core, It should be okay.


if I take this PRC and then take first level UM I get an additional level of sorcerer, I get an extra level 1 spell known (which if I'm clever is something like a cleric spell with arcane disciple) and I get +1 to my caster level. Heck, if I then progress with the ultimate magus I get all the advantages of the UM with a total of +4 to the my caster level and yet more additional spontaneous spells (I can't do that until epic but even taking 5 levels of UM and 10 levels of Studied Sorceror would be pretty hard to top).

Wizard-5/Incantatrix-10/Archmage-5 tops it fairly readily. Free metamagic on 9th level spells twice per day, five bonus feats (four Incantatrix metamagic, one Wizard bonus), and Scribe Scroll. Loses a few feats in the doing, yes, but more than gets them back.

So can the Killer Gnome (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=290914&page=1) build.

The Ultimate Magus-5, even under ideal interpertation, just adds some caster level and lower level matamagic'd spells.


I'm also worried how this might interact with the specialized arcane casters like Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage. With either of the first two you'll end up with a very long spell list and the ability to prepare additional utility spells. Properly done, that might be able lead to batman on steroids.
Spells prepared have to already be on the class list (e.g., a Bard couldn't cast Limited Wish this way). Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage can already cast everything on their class list. They don't gain much more than they would from the Arcane Preparation feat anyway... except, perhaps, trading out ten levels of class feature advancement (which Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage actually have) for the eventual ability to have spell access a level sooner... and losing out on a lot of raw power until then.

[JoshuaZ]

Okay. Boosted to two per level.

Lower level is "-" - you don't get progression at those levels, because you're adding to not applicable.

Alternately, I'm not worried about what someone can do with this + non-core. There's too much non-core stuff to worry about everything printed by WotC. If it's reasonably balanced with itself and Core, It should be okay.

Wizard-5/Incantatrix-10/Archmage-5 tops it fairly readily. Free metamagic on 9th level spells twice per day, five bonus feats (four Incantatrix metamagic, one Wizard bonus), and Scribe Scroll. Loses a few feats in the doing, yes, but more than gets them back.

So can the Killer Gnome (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=290914&page=1) build.

The Ultimate Magus-5, even under ideal interpertation, just adds some caster level and lower level matamagic'd spells.

Yeah, well everyone knows Incantatrix is broken (heck do most people even allow it in their games?) But the general point of non-core stuff being able to do things is valid. That Killer Gnome build is interesting. I don't believe I've seen that before. Consider that objection withdrawn.



Spells prepared have to already be on the class list (e.g., a Bard couldn't cast Limited Wish this way). Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage can already cast everything on their class list. They don't gain much more than they would from the Arcane Preparation feat anyway... except, perhaps, trading out ten levels of class feature advancement (which Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage actually have) for the eventual ability to have spell access a level sooner... and losing out on a lot of raw power until then.

Ah, that's a very good point about class lists so my worry doesn't apply (for some reason I was thinking that they'd be able to prepare anything from the wiz list).

Given the two spell slots removed per a level I have to say I'm ok with this overall at this point. I like the idea a fair bit.

Now, you do bring up a general interesting issue about what can be used as a mechanical penalty other than loss of caster levels. Slot removal is one. One could also do something like "gain spells known and spell slots as if you had advanced one caster level in a previous casting class but don't gain the +1 to effective caster level" (exact wording might need work). So there's a serious mechanical penalty but it isn't as severe.