Miko's coming back!!

[paladinofshojo]

Think about it...Tsukiko needs to find an undead warrior capable of entertaining the big X in a gladiator tournament against O-chul. Miko is a "dead" warrior who only needs to be risen as a death knight or something.

[FujinAkari]

Its possible, but unlikely.

Firstly, that wouldn't be Miko.

Secondly, why in the WORLD would Tsukiko want an undead torso gladiator?

Thirdly... this is so like... last week.

[blackspeeker]

Its possible, but unlikely.

Firstly, that wouldn't be Miko.

Secondly, why in the WORLD would Tsukiko want an undead torso gladiator?

Thirdly... this is so like... last week.

More like last september...

[David Argall]

It's entirely possible, but...
The indications are that Miko was intended to be written out of the script, not to be brought back.
Several chances to bring her back have been passed up.
There is a substantial chance that we will never see this O-Chul-undead match. Instead, the story will continue with other parts of the plot and any further battles happen off-stage.

[Spiky]

It's entirely possible, but...
The indications are that Miko was intended to be written out of the script, not to be brought back.
Several chances to bring her back have been passed up.
There is a substantial chance that we will never see this O-Chul-undead match. Instead, the story will continue with other parts of the plot and any further battles happen off-stage.

Maybe we can Teevo it.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

David,

I'm going to disagree with you... There was only about one chance for Miko to come back, and at that point, Rich didn't bring her back.

Once Tsukiko passed on Mikos torso, it's hard to say what will happen next although undead warrior serving Tsukiko is clearly out.

BUT! What's the point of falling, if there is absolutly no chance for redemption? In fact, why would Soon Kim point out exactly where Miko fell short, if she would never get a chance for a "do-over?"

Miko is dead, but for whatever reason, I'm not totally convinced her story is over.

[lemonhoney]

Let Miko be dead in peace.

She's far better off that way.

[verloren]

Miko is a "dead" warrior who only needs to be risen as a death knight or something.

Miko is a 'decomposed' warrior.


She's dead, jim.

[†Seer†]

I'm 99% sure Miko's gone..

but Tsukiko DID make a reference to her corpse saying it would be a powerful reanimated warrior...blackguard...thing.

[Wych]

BUT! What's the point of falling, if there is absolutly no chance for redemption? In fact, why would Soon Kim point out exactly where Miko fell short, if she would never get a chance for a "do-over?"

To me that feels a bit cliched. If there were only 2 words to describe OOTS, good candidates would be ambiguous and atypical (after awesome, win, fantastic and pineapple). We will most likely never find out V's gender, or what is under the umbrella, or exactly what Sabine is. As such I wouldn't see it as out of line for Miko to end up as a big question mark, particularly with the "perhaps...perhaps not" line.

[silvadel]

And she died happily ever after ???????....

[Paragon Badger]

Redemption does not need to occur in life.

And no, she's not. >_< Let the poor girl have her tragic death before Rich decides to drop a bridge on her half-mangled corpse just to spite you all.

[Theodoriph]

Man...if Miko's corpse is still lying there after all these months, I seriously have to question Redcloak's organizational abilities.

[curtis]

I have to disagree with Wych. We'll probably find out what the MitD is near the end. :smallbiggrin:

[The Hop Goblin]

I somewhat wish Rich had done an April Fool's comic, in which the raising of Miko would have emulated the "Lord Vader.... Rise..." Scene from Episode 3 of Star Wars.

[Ascension]

I somewhat wish Rich had done an April Fool's comic, in which the raising of Miko would have emulated the "Lord Vader.... Rise..." Scene from Episode 3 of Star Wars.

That would indeed have been awesome. Complete with the NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Really, though, Miko's role is over. If she were to be raised as undead, it'd just be her body, none of her personality, and if she were to be raised by a cleric, she's still too good to go blackguard and too stubborn to atone, so she'd just be a "fighter without bonus feats" on into perpetuity.

Let go of her, already!

[Gamerlord]

if rich brought back miko he whould lose a lot of readers because if he did that we readers whould hate him more then jaw-jaw binks and georje lucas COMBINED

[FujinAkari]

If she were to be raised by a cleric, she's still too good to go blackguard and too stubborn to atone, so she'd just be a "fighter without bonus feats" on into perpetuity

While I don't think it'll happen, I disargree with this. When she talked to Soon, it marked the first time in the history of her character where someone critisized her decisions and she didn't argue, fight back, or justify herself, she just... accepted it.

Thats big.

I think she might well atone, having (potentially) accepted her failings.

Like I said, I doubt it'll happen, but I think it -could-.

[Flickerdart]

The Undead Warrior thing was arguably just a joke for this particular comic. It could very well mean nothing.

[bibliophile]

In my opinion, Miko is dead, and will not be brought back. She'd be a dismembered skeleton by now, hardly the foundation of a powerful undead.

[Enlong]

Think about it...Tsukiko needs to find an undead warrior capable of entertaining the big X in a gladiator tournament against O-chul. Miko is a "dead" warrior who only needs to be risen as a death knight or something.


Oh wait, that's only half. I need a whole corpse.

Yeah. It's not happening. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html)

[Reptilius]

Secondly, why in the WORLD would Tsukiko want an undead torso gladiator?

That sounds like a poorly balanced creature from some obscure third-party book.

[Calinero]

1. Miko is only half a corpse, not the most ideal candidate for a zombie gladiator.

2. She has probably decomposed a lot by now.

3. I doubt that Redcloak allowed all those corpses to just sit around all this time.

4. Tsukiko has already seen Miko's body once. If she didn't want it then, I doubt she'd want it now.

5. Miko is a huge, controversial character. If she were going to be brought back, it would most likely be for something less trivial than a gladiator fight.

[Crazeemeel]

I think we can exclude the idea that Miko is never coming back. The debate is more when she will be brought back into the story. As someone said earlier she is the most controversial character in the entire OOTS story and has played a very major role so I see no reason for her to be taken out permanently.

Maybe Roy will spot her in that long line of northerners waiting to see if they will be accepted into the upper planes, that would be quite interesting. I would quite enjoy seeing a Eugene/Miko encounter/meeting.

[David Argall]

Excluding the idea Miko is not coming back is definitely a bad idea. She is dead after all, and even in a D&D world, that usually means you are done. Moreover, she died in a quite final sort of way. She had closure and her return would detract from one of the best scenes in the strip.

Perhaps more serious, our writer doesn't seem to have a good use for her. She was supposed to be a romantic interest for Roy, but he couldn't manage that. And she's too dominant a character to just be hanging around the scene.

She would be great to have back, but the odds are heavy she is not returning.

[Calinero]

I agree with Mr. Argall here....having Miko back would be neat, but all of her subplots have been nicely resolved. Coming back now, she would have no dramatic purpose in the story. It would feel too contrived. If there's a good reason to have her back, then fine--do it. But not just for the heck of it.

[Crazeemeel]

Some good reason will probably be found. But no character in the history of OOTS (which I can think of now) which has been participating in the story for over 100 strips has ever been permanently removed from the action. I am almost positive she will be featured later in the strip somehow.

[Eric]

While I don't think it'll happen, I disargree with this. When she talked to Soon, it marked the first time in the history of her character where someone critisized her decisions and she didn't argue, fight back, or justify herself, she just... accepted it.

Thats big.

I think she might well atone, having (potentially) accepted her failings.

Like I said, I doubt it'll happen, but I think it -could-.

What? Both 'er legs 'ave been cut off! What's she goin' t' do? Bite 'im on the ankles?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

The remaining subplot is "Redemption."

Roy screwed up when he ditched Elan back with the bandits, but redeemed himself by going back and rescuing him a short time later.

Does Miko deserve the same opportunity?

Rich has made it clear that death is not perminant, except via old age, or destruction of the being's soul. Miko was young, and her soul is tarnished, but intact. Eugene died of old age, the Eastern gods and all the inhabitants of World 1.0 are perminantly gone with no chance of return, but...

Once Roy puts his asymetrical boots on the ground, the door is officially cracked for Miko. Whether Rich brings her back for a major story arc, or a "Do you want to live forever!" moment to save Roy's skin remains to be seen.

Or she might be perma-gone. I'm open to that possibility as well, but until Miko is seen "on the other side," either making, or have made for her, the decision to stay "over there," she can come back. Just like any other character.

[David Argall]

Some good reason will probably be found. But no character in the history of OOTS (which I can think of now) which has been participating in the story for over 100 strips has ever been permanently removed from the action. I am almost positive she will be featured later in the strip somehow.

I am not quite sure what you are referring to, but Miko has only appeared in 80 strips, by a generous count. That's quite high by NPC standards, but far short of 100.
If you mean from first appearance to last, Shojo appeared in 266 [or 120 as an offstage voice] and last in 407 or 410 depending on definition

[SteveMB]

That sounds like a poorly balanced creature from some obscure third-party book.

They'll let any old hack write a sourcebook these days....

[Trizap]

*sigh*

why doesn't anyone think about the possibility the Miko might come back CHANGED!?

she could be another place, a place she didn't want to go, like a Lawful Neutral plane, maybe she doesn't like where she is gone and Soon's words, because they were from the guy who is a paladin and the original leader of the Saphire Guard, actually sunk in and she has done some serious thinking, actually thought out everything instead of jumping to conclusions and re-examined those past events, I mean she has had time, it has been 3 months since she died, she could be done right and seeking someone, someway to redeem herself.

[Alex Warlorn]

Think about it...Tsukiko needs to find an undead warrior capable of entertaining the big X in a gladiator tournament against O-chul. Miko is a "dead" warrior who only needs to be risen as a death knight or something.

I just wish we knew why the Dungeon Master is being so tight lipped about what afterlife Miko ended up in. Or weather the gods just said 'screw it' and reincarnated her since they couldn't figure out her alignment even with 'detect alingment.'

[Renegade Paladin]

Unless Rich changed his mind, which I see no indication of, Miko's not done yet. I'm sure the statement from No Cure for the Paladin Blues has been trotted out enough, so I won't quote it again, but it's still there.

[David Argall]

I just wish we knew why the Dungeon Master is being so tight lipped about what afterlife Miko ended up in. Or weather the gods just said 'screw it' and reincarnated her since they couldn't figure out her alignment even with 'detect alingment.'
Why bother? Whatever his choice, we are going to yell at him, and each other and... Easier to leave it as is, unless he wants to bring her back.


*sigh*

why doesn't anyone think about the possibility the Miko might come back CHANGED!?
Because then she would not be Miko.



Unless Rich changed his mind, which I see no indication of, Miko's not done yet. I'm sure the statement from No Cure for the Paladin Blues has been trotted out enough, so I won't quote it again, but it's still there.
Better to trot things out again. I seem to recall the wordage meant that she was intended to be present all thru the story, but since her purpose of Roy love interest is gone, her presence in the rest of the story is also endangered.

[Renegade Paladin]

Besides, I had no future planned for these characters [Samantha and her father], and I didn't like the idea that every single villain has to return to plague the OOTS again later. I already had the Linear Guild and Xykon, and was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around on and off for the rest of the OOTS storyline.
On and off. Currently she's off. She'll be on again later.

[PhallicWarrior]

@original poster:

This is dumb.

[Eakin]

Why does everybody want Miko to come back? Yes she was a neat character, but in what way does it serve the overall story to bring her back when her section of the story is clearly and cleanly resolved? You know who brings back characters from the dead just because it would be neat? DC and Marvel. Do you really want to see what OotS would look like if it were run to DC or Marvel standards? I sure don't.

[David Argall]

"was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around on and off for the rest of the OOTS storyline."


On and off. Currently she's off. She'll be on again later.

That language is not as definite as we would want it. "Was"..."would" She was also introduced as Roy's love interest, and didn't hold that role long. Based on the language, she could have been introduced as a recurring foe, but that role too was revoked. Note that difference between "would" and "will". He doesn't use the more definite "will", which would make it definite she was still intended to stick around. Rather he says "would", which could mean he had introduced her as permanent, but had already decided to get rid of her.

[Crazeemeel]

I am not quite sure what you are referring to, but Miko has only appeared in 80 strips, by a generous count. That's quite high by NPC standards, but far short of 100.
If you mean from first appearance to last, Shojo appeared in 266 [or 120 as an offstage voice] and last in 407 or 410 depending on definition

I meant actually inside the story, not featured in 100 separate strips.

[Crazeemeel]

On and off. Currently she's off. She'll be on again later.

Everyone listen to this guy. This is the solid evidence that Miko will be back "on" at some point later on in the OOTS. Rich never had any intention of removing her ompletely. If you don't beelive the quote get No Cure for Paladin Blues and read it yourself.

[Crazeemeel]

Better to trot things out again. I seem to recall the wordage meant that she was intended to be present all thru the story, but since her purpose of Roy love interest is gone, her presence in the rest of the story is also endangered.

Miko hasn't been a love interest for Roy for a really long time and I'm surprised anyone still thinks that that was the reason she was ever introduced to the story and the reason she was still in it.

Miko is an antagonist who as stated earlier will be on and off with little danger of ever being permanently removed.

[Renegade Paladin]

"was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around on and off for the rest of the OOTS storyline."



That language is not as definite as we would want it. "Was"..."would" She was also introduced as Roy's love interest, and didn't hold that role long. Based on the language, she could have been introduced as a recurring foe, but that role too was revoked. Note that difference between "would" and "will". He doesn't use the more definite "will", which would make it definite she was still intended to stick around. Rather he says "would", which could mean he had introduced her as permanent, but had already decided to get rid of her.
"Would" and "will" are simply different tenses of the same word; neither is more definite than the other.

[Truthseeker]

That sounds like a poorly balanced creature from some obscure third-party book.

Heck, I remember that guy. It's Maw! (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Maw_%28Jedi%29)

[David Argall]

"Would" and "will" are simply different tenses of the same word; neither is more definite than the other.
The devil is in the details, and that is where we have to go.

"Will" here is a promise about the future.
"Would" is a looking back. That promise about the future now only exists if the future is already past.

If he had said "will" bother the party, we would be on firm ground expecting her back.
When he says "would" bother the party, we merely know she continues to bother the party to the date of publication.



Miko hasn't been a love interest for Roy for a really long time and I'm surprised anyone still thinks that that was the reason she was ever introduced to the story and the reason she was still in it.
But that was the reason she was introduced. There were no doubt other reasons, but this was a central part of her purpose. That part is now gone. And that means Miko can be gone.

The wording is "... was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around...". That statement can be augmented with something like "but I changed my mind later about her and wrote her out of the story." without any violence to normal English usage. She was introduce as.., not introduced who will... He introduced her with the intent of having her stay in the story. That is not any sort of promise that he will.



I meant actually inside the story, not featured in 100 separate strips.
I am still confused by what you mean here. How is Miko inside the story when Shojo for example is not?

[jzimbert]

How long can the denial phase of grieving last before it becomes unhealthy?

[Crazeemeel]

(On Miko being a love interest for Roy)
But that was the reason she was introduced. There were no doubt other reasons, but this was a central part of her purpose. That part is now gone. And that means Miko can be gone.

I am still confused by what you mean here. How is Miko inside the story when Shojo for example is not?

Here is a quote directly from No Cure for Paladin Blues in the Introduction to round 5 written by Rich Burlew.

"It is important to remember that while Miko gets a lot of screen time in this section of the story, she is ultimately a recurring character, not a main character. I liken her status to Nale or Redcloak, major enough to develop her story a little, not major enough to have to appear constantly. When her story parts are through, she fades to the background. Of course, she can always pop up again, in the least expected ways..."

Here is another quote from NCFPB from Rich

"By the time strip #223 rolled around, though, it was obvious to me that "light romantic comedy" was not what Miko was about"

He states that early on she was supposed to be a bit of a love interest for Roy but he quickly terminated the idea after only 23 strips of her. After that she was always intended as a protagonist for the OOTS.

Miko was also intended as a way to get the OOTS to Azure City so that Shojo could all give them a bunch of "plot expositition".

When I say strips which she has been in the story I mean the number of strips from when she was introduced to the end.

[David Argall]

Here is a quote directly from No Cure for Paladin Blues in the Introduction to round 5 written by Rich Burlew.

"It is important to remember that while Miko gets a lot of screen time in this section of the story, she is ultimately a recurring character, not a main character. I liken her status to Nale or Redcloak, major enough to develop her story a little, not major enough to have to appear constantly. When her story parts are through, she fades to the background. Of course, she can always pop up again, in the least expected ways..."
What you have here is hopeful, not controlling.
A recurring character is not guaranteed a recurrance under the definition used here. Rather this says she might reappear, even when it is "obvious" she won't. [And of course, Miko did recurr after this was written.] But there is no guarantee she will ever appear again here. Recurring characters can and do get killed.



Here is another quote from NCFPB from Rich

"By the time strip #223 rolled around, though, it was obvious to me that "light romantic comedy" was not what Miko was about"

He states that early on she was supposed to be a bit of a love interest for Roy but he quickly terminated the idea after only 23 strips of her. After that she was always intended as a protagonist for the OOTS.
I assume you mean "antagonist" rather than "protagonist" here.
The use of "always intended" here is a bit of a strain on the language. We might say "always used", but "always intended" requires we know the writer's mind. And since we refer to a change in intent right before it, saying "always" becomes a bit jarring.
And while it was obvious to him at 223, he did not abandon the idea of romance completely for several more strips. He is quoted around here as saying he worked on it for the hotel scene, but could not make it work right.


When I say strips which she has been in the story I mean the number of strips from when she was introduced to the end.
Which does not distinguish Miko from Shojo, who is deemed entirely dead and gone.

[Nerdanel]

I wonder if the far-more-likable O-Chul has recently taken over the role originally intended for Miko when Miko's character ended up more crazy and unstable than originally intended. Perhaps Miko was supposed to survive breaking the gate. She had evasion and could have potentially negated the entire castle-destroying explosion damage if she had only made her saving throw.

I'm awaiting which undead Tsukiko whips up, since barring scenes set in the afterlife, it's hard to see Miko returning in another fashion any time soon.

[BRC]

Personally, I doubt it. Rich killed her in a way that worked for her character. It was a Death by Irony, her own personal flaws led to her defeat. He's too good a writer to bring her back. The only way I could imagine bringing her back would be to use her body to create an undead that would have no trace of Miko in it.

[Regneva]

I await the day tsukiko finally dies so we can all enjoy freedom from "Miko is coming back" threads once and for all...

[Dervag]

4. Tsukiko has already seen Miko's body once. If she didn't want it then, I doubt she'd want it now.Given her predilections, that has horrible double entendre potential...:smalleek:


Some good reason will probably be found. But no character in the history of OOTS (which I can think of now) which has been participating in the story for over 100 strips has ever been permanently removed from the action. I am almost positive she will be featured later in the strip somehow.Only four such characters have ever died. One of them was Shojo (who, by all evidence, is permanently out of the action). One of them was Xykon, who wasn't really dead dead because his phylactery was safe. One of them was Roy, who's the main protagonist, and whose friends are already explicitly planning to get him raised from the dead.

And the fourth is Miko. Why should Miko be like Roy and not like Shojo in this respect?


Everyone listen to this guy. This is the solid evidence that Miko will be back "on" at some point later on in the OOTS. Rich never had any intention of removing her ompletely. If you don't beelive the quote get No Cure for Paladin Blues and read it yourself.I will not listen to this guy because I think he's totally misinterpreting the quote. Moreover, Rich didn't swear on his mother's grave or anything that he wouldn't decide to kill off Miko after writing that.

It's not that I don't believe the quote. It's that I don't think it means what you think it means, because you're trying to draw huge conclusions about the comic strip from a single ambiguous remark.

[Crazeemeel]

What you have here is hopeful, not controlling.
A recurring character is not guaranteed a recurrance under the definition used here. Rather this says she might reappear, even when it is "obvious" she won't. [And of course, Miko did recurr after this was written.] But there is no guarantee she will ever appear again here. Recurring characters can and do get killed.

I assume you mean "antagonist" rather than "protagonist" here.
The use of "always intended" here is a bit of a strain on the language. We might say "always used", but "always intended" requires we know the writer's mind. And since we refer to a change in intent right before it, saying "always" becomes a bit jarring.
And while it was obvious to him at 223, he did not abandon the idea of romance completely for several more strips. He is quoted around here as saying he worked on it for the hotel scene, but could not make it work right.


Which does not distinguish Miko from Shojo, who is deemed entirely dead and gone.

I'd like to say up front that a lot of people arguing here should just get NCFPB where Rich talks extensively in his introductions about thoughts, intentions, and ideas that he had for Miko so that those who do own the book don't have to read it straight to them.

This is the entire quote which may help

"Originally, the inn sequence was concieved as light romantic comedy, with Roy using the belt to try to learn more about Miko in "girl talk: before finding out it couldn't be removed. By the time strip #223 rolled around, though, it was obvious to me that "light romantic comedy" was not what Miko was about"

And another helpful quote from the next paragraph

"So instead the inn sequence being the story of how Roy tried to woo Miko and failed, it's the story of how Roy realized that Miko was not worth his efforts."

Here he states that he originally thougt the inn story would be "light romantic comedy" by the time he got to it he had already decided it wouldn't be and never wrote according to the idea that it would.

Yes a recurring character can drop from the story but I guess I will have to feel faithful that she will come back. In NCFPB he also calls Miko the "single most controversial character I have yet created for OOTS" and I don't think that Rich would want to permanently remove such an entertaining and controversial character from the "OOTSiverse"

Sorry, I did mean antagonist

[Crazeemeel]

I'll argue with you later Dervag. Too tired from that last post

[Studoku]

I await the day tsukiko finally dies so we can all enjoy freedom from "Miko is coming back" threads once and for all...

That wouldn't stop the threads.

If the snarl kills and unmakes Miko, the frequency may fall but even then the threads will remain.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I await the day tsukiko finally dies so we can all enjoy freedom from "Miko is coming back" threads once and for all...

Only one way for that. Show Miko passing through the gates or whatever destination she is asigned to, have her look over her shoulder, then walk through.

Once Roy gets his boots back on the ground, the door is there for Miko. Roy had the choice of staying in Celestia, but is working on coming back. Unless and until Miko is seen making the decision to stay, she has the option of coming back.

"Coming Back" has always been an option in this strip. Eugene did four times, Belkar planned on being rezzed when he took on Miko, the guard Belkar killed was going to be brought back on Belkar's dime, Shojo decided he'd rather smoke cigars rolled from poorly worded contracts.

And the decision Miko needs to make? Does she want a chance at Redemption, or will she be content with feeding Windstriker Celestial Brand apples?