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Admiral Squish
2008-04-03, 01:49 AM
I have recently begun play with a character who has a light load of over two tons. It's a high-level campaign with all races allowed, if you didn't guess. Now, this is quite impressive, however, I'm not sure how to treat the lifting of various things. Would he have to make a strength check to lift things less than his light load? He can lift over his head in excess of six tons, would that include buildings of appreciable size? If he can push thirty-two tons, couldn't he simply bull-rush through any wall he came across? Is there any physical way to actually lift an object of six tons, or would it simply fall apart on itself?

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-03, 01:53 AM
Realism + Game Mechanics = Divide by Zero Error

However, realistically, regardless of how strong you are, if you lift say, a building, it will fall apart. I'll let a physics guy explain all the reasons that happens.

In terms of the bullrush question: you can't bull rush a wall, but you probably do enough damage to break through doors and walls with your bare hands, unless your carrying capacity is modified by size as well as strength.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-03, 02:12 AM
He's 40 strength and large, hence the ultimately ridiculous numbers.

Danin
2008-04-03, 02:56 AM
I had a Centaur Barbarian with a strength score of around 36 when raging. A large quadruped has a pretty hefty carrying capacity. When our boat run around and everyone was contemplating different options I said I'd get out and push. Imagine their surprise then, when the boat slid back into the water.

As to game mechanics, I suppose you could tear through most walls but that would seriously hurt the structural integrity of the building you're in and although you might be able to survive the roof collapsing in, I'm guessing the party halfling monk wouldn't last too long.

random11
2008-04-03, 03:38 AM
Don't know why, but when mentioning carrying 2 ton weights and lifting buildings, the first character that came into my mind was Zoro from One-piece...

Nope, 40 st is not realistic, it's not supposed to be realistic. And under non-realistic rules, it makes perfect sense that only an opponent with exceptional attributes will provide some sort of challenge for him.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-03, 04:00 AM
The realism issue with lifting a building isn't whether or not you can get a strength of 40, it is a matter of the physics involved in picking up a building. Two Hands + Large amount of force (in the space of those two hands) = chunk of building falls off.

As much as I don't like Evangelion, there is an example from it of the kind of thing I'm talking about: Note what happens to the ship in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVCxYalU_wA) scene when a giant mecha picks up a ship. This is the issue I am talking about, not zOMG! 40 STR!

(holy @#?, a scene from an anime to demonstrate a concept in physics?!)

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-04-03, 04:13 AM
Also note that your standard building weighs far more than 6 tons and, you know, has a foundation rooting it to the ground.

You're thinking, say, large cars as a light load. Might just be me, but the large-sized party tank carrying the cart around on his back doesn't break my version of verisimilitude.

Khanderas
2008-04-03, 07:10 AM
Also note that your standard building weighs far more than 6 tons and, you know, has a foundation rooting it to the ground.

You're thinking, say, large cars as a light load. Might just be me, but the large-sized party tank carrying the cart around on his back doesn't break my version of verisimilitude.
Your version of verismilitude is indeed liberal when it is not broken by a centaur skipping around town with a tank on his back.

KillianHawkeye
2008-04-03, 07:28 AM
I seem to recall there being some kind of corollary to Superman's Super Strength power which basically stated that anything picked up by Superman did not get crushed under it's own weight. This was, of course, because it was imparted with Super Structual Integrity. :smallwink:

Ascension
2008-04-03, 08:20 AM
Your version of verismilitude is indeed liberal when it is not broken by a centaur skipping around town with a tank on his back.

No, he's talking about the "tank" (party role, not vehicle) carrying a cart (which is a vehicle).

Dr Bwaa
2008-04-03, 09:01 AM
No, he's talking about the "tank" (party role, not vehicle) carrying a cart (which is a vehicle).

Yes, a vehicular tank weighs an awful lot more than six tons.

Comparisons:

Volvo wagon: 2 tons
Chevy Suburban (the big one): 4 tons
Airstream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstream): 6 tons
Light Tank (for scouting, virtually useless in combat): 10 tons
M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank (M1A1): 67.6 tons

Funkyodor
2008-04-03, 09:18 AM
Um, isn't the light load for a 40 STR Large creature only 2,128 lbs (Crap thats still Crazy-Strong!), and not 2 tons? Max load would be 6,400 lbs, or a little over 3 tons.

Man, that's still crazy! Walk around with a Volvo on your head without batting an eye!

RagnaroksChosen
2008-04-03, 10:03 AM
I would say he could lift a house with no problem and probebly throw the house to.... why becuase i could see some one like hurcules doing it... now i wouldn't be doing it all the time but i could see it...


heh on a side note about people throwing cars and lifting cars. We once where playing a game of Werewolf(WOD) and the get of fenris's in our group decided to "Fence" with two sudans that happend to be parked at a party we where at in Montana. getting up to 17-20 dots in Str can do that in a game... atleast most of the gms i've run with have no problem with werewolves chucking cars at each other...

Admiral Squish
2008-04-03, 12:49 PM
Its rather annoying that the upper limits of his strength are unusable.

Still, I may be able to make my DM consider such feats just for the sheer amount of awesome involved in tossing a house onto someone.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-03, 01:15 PM
I would say he could lift a house with no problem and probebly throw the house to.... why becuase i could see some one like hurcules doing it... now i wouldn't be doing it all the time but i could see it...The problem isn't his Strength, it's the house. Houses are built to sit there. It'd collapse if he tried to lift it.

sikyon
2008-04-03, 01:54 PM
You should try pushing immovable rods around to scare your opponents!

Dr Bwaa
2008-04-03, 02:05 PM
You should try pushing immovable rods around to scare your opponents!

Nice.

And yes, while most houses will almost certainly collapse before you can really lift them, cars (if you find yourself in a modern setting) won't! So I see no reason not to go car-jousting...

bugsysservant
2008-04-03, 03:49 PM
Nice.

And yes, while most houses will almost certainly collapse before you can really lift them, cars (if you find yourself in a modern setting) won't! So I see no reason not to go car-jousting...

Well, car jousting probably wouldn't go over well. From my understanding of it, cars are meant to gradually crumple in an accident, to absorb the force into the impact zone in front. So, jousting with cars would not only deal less damage than just with a big block of something, afterwards the car would be crumpled permanently and worthless.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-03, 04:04 PM
Well, car jousting probably wouldn't go over well. From my understanding of it, cars are meant to gradually crumple in an accident, to absorb the force into the impact zone in front. So, jousting with cars would not only deal less damage than just with a big block of something, afterwards the car would be crumpled permanently and worthless.

Hmm... Ever played Hulk: Ultimate Destruction? One of his techniques is to pick up a a car, rip it in half and pound it into crude gauntlets. I'd have to negotiate with the DM to get bonus damage and waive the improvised weapon penalty, but that wold be so much fun to actually do in a game.

Also, you don't JOUST with a car. If you can pick it up in the first place, you should swing it around. Lots of reach, lots of weight, and nearly impossible to avoid. Plus the crumple effect for crashes doesn't apply when you hit them with the undercarriage.

blacksabre
2008-04-03, 04:25 PM
ANother thing to keep in mind when lifting large objects that aren't designed to be lifted is leverage.

Remember the fulcrum is the point from where you grab the item.
Its been years since doing physics , maybe someone else can chime in.

Lifting a 2000 lb barbell is one thing, lifting a 2000 lb oddly shaped box is another.
Of course working to position your self and "work" your way into lifting something strange is possible, but it may take a few rounds to do with the appropriate DC's each round.

The best real world analogy would be the world's strongest man competeions. They lift some pretty crazy objects. All of them are arguably incredibly stong, say 18-24 range in game terms..But that doesn't mean they automatically can lift there max without a problem.

I would argue some speciallised skill should be used if you want to be able to go around lifting
Maybe your strength max lift would have to be 4x that wieght of the object to not concern yourself with being able to lift it any old way.

blacksabre
2008-04-03, 04:34 PM
Also another thing to keep in mind is the load and what the lifter is standing on..

In a Chamions game i was running a bruiser basher player loved throwing things willy neely, kept causing collateral damage, always trying to take the lime light (the other players were getting tired of it)

In one capiagn they they faced up against an evil dictator who took over a central american country..

They went in to take on the small army. the setting was the swampy jungle were the military was forming up. The bruiser Power leaps into the middle of some tanks, and succesfully lifts one of the tanks over his head..

Where by the soft swampy soil gave under neath him and the wieght of the tank drove him into the ground like a hammer on a nail..he almosted died from suffocation

bugsysservant
2008-04-03, 06:26 PM
Hmm... Ever played Hulk: Ultimate Destruction? One of his techniques is to pick up a a car, rip it in half and pound it into crude gauntlets. I'd have to negotiate with the DM to get bonus damage and waive the improvised weapon penalty, but that wold be so much fun to actually do in a game.

Also, you don't JOUST with a car. If you can pick it up in the first place, you should swing it around. Lots of reach, lots of weight, and nearly impossible to avoid. Plus the crumple effect for crashes doesn't apply when you hit them with the undercarriage.

Well, I really was only responding to the above post where the use of the car was given as "car-jousting"...

Plus, what's the use of the gauntlets? They don't cost all that much for a large character, and spending the time/penalty to do so with a car just seems kinda silly.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-03, 06:41 PM
Well, I really was only responding to the above post where the use of the car was given as "car-jousting"...

Plus, what's the use of the gauntlets? They don't cost all that much for a large character, and spending the time/penalty to do so with a car just seems kinda silly.

Well, your post was more convenient.

The use of normal gauntlets is nothing. The use of these gauntlets is that they each weigh about half as much as a car. That's something like a ton for each hand. Now, reasonably, that would deal some extra damage. A lot, actually. Besides, it's not the mechanical viability that makes them cool, it's that you're wearing a car on your fists.

GoC
2008-04-03, 06:59 PM
As much as I don't like Evangelion, there is an example from it of the kind of thing I'm talking about: Note what happens to the ship in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVCxYalU_wA) scene when a giant mecha picks up a ship. This is the issue I am talking about, not zOMG! 40 STR!

Actually the mechas hands would have simply gone through the bottom of the ship. It should never have left to water.