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DrizztFan24
2008-04-03, 10:02 PM
So I have, in my party, a human beguiler, a halfling shapeshifter druid who forgets that she has amazing spells at her disposal, and a dragon shaman that thinks he is a melee powerhouse.

We have been told that our next campaign is going to be Tomb of Horrors. No spoilers please! I am just looking for suggested equipment to buy for myself (beguiler). I have roughly 55k to play with at 11th level. I have: a circlet of int, hat of disguise, ring with +5 to jump and climb and featherfall, a ring of protection +1, Ioun Stone that gives +1 Int, a human bane rapier, and a bow.

He also has an eversmoking bottle and goggles that allow him to see throught he fog created by the bottle. He has a few misc. mundane items, and a +1 Two-Bladed sword of Ghosttouch that he looted from a baddie. His armor is also a +3 Studded Leather Armor. A few other wonderous items that don't have too much application in the dungeon.

So suggestions for gear? he has levels in assassin (6) for all the good it will do him if that will make any difference.

Avor
2008-04-03, 10:16 PM
A gallon of holy water to drink.

It is better to stay dead, rather than live on as one of those abominations.

Sorry, I just hate the undead, wich is funny as our DM decided that it would be fun to force the whole party on a gaint island, full of undead, and all traped on this island by a SUPER Dragolitch, and (seemingly)friendly necomancers. I think the DM wants me to die in Arena so he can force me to play a undead character. Also, whole party is good aligned...I should stop ranting, I'm just sad I have to talk to sentient undead, and not kill them, seeing how we are traped, ****ing over-controlling DM...

Helgraf
2008-04-03, 10:18 PM
So I have, in my party, a human beguiler, a halfling shapeshifter druid who forgets that she has amazing spells at her disposal, and a dragon shaman that thinks he is a melee powerhouse.

We have been told that our next campaign is going to be Tomb of Horrors. No spoilers please! I am just looking for suggested equipment to buy for myself (beguiler). I have roughly 55k to play with at 11th level. I have: a circlet of int, hat of disguise, ring with +5 to jump and climb and featherfall, a ring of protection +1, Ioun Stone that gives +1 Int, a human bane rapier, and a bow.

He also has an eversmoking bottle and goggles that allow him to see throught he fog created by the bottle. He has a few misc. mundane items, and a +1 Two-Bladed sword of Ghosttouch that he looted from a baddie. His armor is also a +3 Studded Leather Armor. A few other wonderous items that don't have too much application in the dungeon.

So suggestions for gear? he has levels in assassin (6) for all the good it will do him if that will make any difference.

If you can get anything that can give you rerolls on failed saves, take it.

Also, write your will in advance, in triplicate, and distribute the copies beforehand.

DrizztFan24
2008-04-03, 10:20 PM
See I was thinking like a decanter of endless water with bless water cast into it. Its like an anti-undead cannon...but less gunpowder.

Catch
2008-04-03, 10:27 PM
See I was thinking like a decanter of endless water with bless water cast into it. Its like an anti-undead cannon...but less gunpowder.

Bless Water only affects one pint at a time.

Here's the thing about the Tomb of Horrors, though: Don't expect to come out. I noticed your aversion to spoilers, but--and here's sort of a spoiler--cheating by looking ahead is about the only way to get through without losing most, if not all of your party. Everything is a lie, nothing works as you expect, and one mistake will totally kill you. I mean, the adventure is designed as one big drawn-out TPK.

So, bring some extra characters sheets.

FlyMolo
2008-04-03, 10:31 PM
So I have, in my party, a human beguiler, a halfling shapeshifter druid who forgets that she has amazing spells at her disposal, and a dragon shaman that thinks he is a melee powerhouse.

We have been told that our next campaign is going to be Tomb of Horrors. No spoilers please! I am just looking for suggested equipment to buy for myself (beguiler). I have roughly 55k to play with at 11th level. I have: a circlet of int, hat of disguise, ring with +5 to jump and climb and featherfall, a ring of protection +1, Ioun Stone that gives +1 Int, a human bane rapier, and a bow.

He also has an eversmoking bottle and goggles that allow him to see throught he fog created by the bottle. He has a few misc. mundane items, and a +1 Two-Bladed sword of Ghosttouch that he looted from a baddie. His armor is also a +3 Studded Leather Armor. A few other wonderous items that don't have too much application in the dungeon.

So suggestions for gear? he has levels in assassin (6) for all the good it will do him if that will make any difference.
You can probably beat the ToH with this lot. Just remember: The actual monsters? Cr appropriate. The deathtraps? Amazingly arbitrary. Don't. Touch. Anything. Have something to bash through walls with, and something else to climb along the walls/ceiling. And use it often. Always, in fact. Rerolling failed saves is another must. And be incredibly specific in your actions. Poke everything with a sharp stick before touching. EVERYTHING. And bring a lot of sharp sticks. Bring mirrors on the end of sticks to see around corners. 12.5 foot poles. Be as paranoid as possible. Bring every mundane item in the DMG, if you can carry them all. The DMG2, maybe. Then, I think you'll be okay. Drag along a wooden doll with the same weight as you, too. Throw it into rooms first. Get a wand of animate object. Get it to touch everything(that you absolutely have to touch) first.

Let me reiterate. Don't. Touch. ANYTHING. Nearly everything is trapped. Make sure to tie yourself off before adventuring down any hallway. Or room. Or antechamber. Etc. Etc. The normal useable-by-someone rules do not apply here. Expect arbitrary death on every level.

Avor
2008-04-03, 10:57 PM
Hey I got an idea, shape stone, get the hell out!

Also, my favourite feats, Nimbus of Light, Holy radiance, out of the Book of Exalted deeds, light is your friend, and it will do 1d6 to undead near you per round.

Aquillion
2008-04-03, 11:17 PM
10 foot poles. Lots of 10 foot poles. Trust me.

A bag of tricks, for trying to find traps.

Anything that can improve your saves -- the best Cloak of Resistance money can buy, a luckstone, a pale green ioun stone, etc.

Since you're a beguiler, anything that improves your rogue-type skill checks. (A luckstone, again. A pale green ioun stone. Masterwork tools. A Lens of Detection for your search checks.)

streakster
2008-04-03, 11:27 PM
You, my friend, shall die often. Adjust to that now.

If your DM allows custom items, consider making an item of Augury.

You: "Mother, may I take one step forward?"
DM: "...woe."
You: "Hallway's trapped, guys."

Aquillion
2008-04-03, 11:54 PM
Also: Your character should have 17 identical siblings, each of whom has taken the exact same paths in training you have, has aquired exactly equivilent items, and has advanced at exactly the same rate. If you die, one of them will inevitably step in to avenge your death.

...but definitely the Lens of Detection. It's fairly cheap, and a +5 untyped bonus to Search checks will never get old. In many cases (not just in the ToH), a search check can mean the difference between smooth going and disaster.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-04, 01:23 AM
Masterwork items for every skill you have. Are you Evil? Bring Commoners. Are you Neutral? Bring Commoners and pay their widows well. Are you Good? Don't be. The ToH will kill you in that case.

Also, treat this like it's Call of Cthulhu. Expect to be screwed. Hear that laughter? That's the DM, and he is amused by your suffering.

thubby
2008-04-04, 02:23 AM
bags of caltrops+animate object. send the gleeful little barbs off into the corridors and all throughout the dungeon. its a good way to find the basic traps.

The_Werebear
2008-04-04, 02:32 AM
Buy 55k worth of sheep. Herd them into the dungeon. You will have to do this repeatedly to get all the traps.

Alternately- Buy a wand of Knock, Detect Traps, and Antimagic Field. That won't stop all the traps, but it will knock the worst of the magic ones down.

Give a high level cleric locks of hair in advance, with instructions to cast Resurrection on you all if you haven't returned by a specific time.

Buy immunity/Resistance to as many effects as you can. Poison, disease, Negative Energy, Mind Affecting.

Finally, I reiterate FlyMolo's point- DON'T. TOUCH. ANYTHING. Even if you have poked it several times with a stick. Even if the rest of the party is doing it.

Turcano
2008-04-04, 04:51 AM
Bring scrolls of shatter and command, at least five of each. Also, there's a lot of poison, bring something (preferably a lot of somethings) to fix that. Also, some way of seeing through illusions; those are just as common. You have a ghost touch weapon; that's good. Oh, and bring a few ten-foot poles, if you haven't already.

I'm not familiar with the beguiler class, but someone in your party needs very high ranks in Disable Device, Open Lock, Search, and Spot, or a way to emulate those ranks.

Also, some cryptic advice, if you want it:

Green is the color of death.
Try to avoid going through anything you can't see through.
Pull on things the way you want them to go.
Some traps hide the way forward.
Corpses are a sign of danger. (Okay, greater danger.)
Touch silver to silver, gold to gold.
If you think you've reached the end, you probably haven't.

Khanderas
2008-04-04, 05:05 AM
Finally, I reiterate FlyMolo's point- DON'T. TOUCH. ANYTHING. Even if you have poked it several times with a stick. Even if the rest of the party is doing it.
Comon... all the cool kids are poking that jade statue of a multiheaded god.
Dooo eeeet

MorkaisChosen
2008-04-04, 07:17 AM
I haven't seen it, so this isn't a spoiler, but if there's a "normal" way for adventurers to do things? Don't do it. For example, everyone knows about 10-foot poles and how to use them.

THIS INCLUDES THE DESIGNERS OF THE TOMB OF HORRORS.

Zenos
2008-04-04, 07:55 AM
Remember to summon fiendish monkeys to open doors whilst you're standing as far away as possible.

Dr Bwaa
2008-04-04, 08:53 AM
Bring a monk with a wheelbarrow

DrizztFan24
2008-04-04, 09:18 AM
Is the dungeon going to take longer than a day? if so then I plan on getting either a wand or scrolls of rope trick or a portable hole with a bottle of air.

man, there is no way i am buy a green ioun stone...30k for a +1, or 25K for a +5 cloak of resistance.

Dr Bwaa
2008-04-04, 09:38 AM
Is the dungeon going to take longer than a day?

Yes.

Also

Bring a Golembane Scarab. 2500gp wondrous item; negates all construct and golem DR. This is just a great item anyway.

Bring a bag of tricks (or several). it's cheaper than 55k of sheep.
Cloak of resistance is the way to go. Give one to everyone in the party.
Finally, I can't agree more with FlyMolo; bring every mundane item you can think of, and use them cleverly. Many problems can be bypassed this way.

Also, if you really want to be tricky, have someone get Arcane Sight permanized. When I ran it for my friends this one hacked the game more than anything else.

Tam_OConnor
2008-04-04, 10:42 AM
Have someone pick up a level of warlock for baleful utterance. It'll save you all the shatter spells you would otherwise use. Other than that, I agree with everyone above. But instead of a herd of sheep, I'd use earth elementals. Because it's stylish.

The_Werebear
2008-04-04, 10:50 AM
But imagine the fun of sheep. Send one in. 15 seconds later, there is terrified bleating and a shreds of wool and blood fly out of the entrance. Send in another one. Channel Xykon. Laugh maniacally.

Sheep are very cheap. You can have hundreds of thousands of them. I think they take up more space than the actual dungeon has. So long as they don't fall into the demon's mouth, it will be fine. Best of all, your DM will probably weep when you mention what you spent your money on.

DrizztFan24
2008-04-04, 11:31 AM
So my list of gear so far
I have 55298 gp to spend

Lots of telescoping rods
Lens of detection
Scarab of Golembane
Plenty of small mirrors
Vest of Resistance +5
A container of Keoghtom's Ointment (remove disease and cures poisons)
Permanent arcane sight
Rod of Ropes (anti trap with the grappling hook)
One of those cool Hewards bed rolls

Maybe items
Cloak of Arachnida
Decanter of Endless water that shoots blessed water
Eyes of the Eagle
Goggles of Minute Seeing
Hand of Glory

Items the rest of the party needs to pick up
Druid nabs some light pellets and a Vest of Resist
Dragon Shaman nabs a Myrland's spoon and a Vest of Resist

So I have 1,298 gp left and still need a cloak of arachnida

Hmmm potions of neutralize poison and a periapt of health or the Ointment?
What do you think are the chances of having 14k loaned to me?

chevalier
2008-04-04, 12:24 PM
10 foot poles. Lots of 10 foot poles. Trust me.


This was going to be the first thing I would recommend. They will save your life.

Also, remember curiosity killed the cat. If it is fascinating and draws you in and you just have to figure out what it is and why...it's a trap.

(Why do players not use "the adventurer's friend", the 10-foot pole, anymore? Maybe it's specific to my crew, but back in the ol' 2nd edition days, that was practically the first thing my peeps bought--then torches and bedrolls and "iron" rations, etc.)

Citizen Joe
2008-04-04, 01:17 PM
I want to say there is some sort of cleric spell that lets you monitor the health of your allies. Hook that up to a bunch of either summoned creatures, or 'canaries' and send them ahead on specific actions. If they suddenly disappear from the biomonitor, don't do what they were sent to do. Ah yes, Status spell, Clr2. If someone absolutely MUST go through a doorway, archway, hole, whatever... make sure they have status up plus some sort of method of communicating back. If it is a death trap, the cleric will see them wink off the grid. If they get teleported someplace, he'll know the direction. At that point, it is probably safer to tunnel through to said person.

Actually, Deathwatch is pretty good too... since it will pick out all creatures within a 30' cone emanation and tell you their condition. It doesn't actually say anything about having to SEE the creature, so some hidden creatures sort of get revealed.

Actually, maybe one of the best things to do would be to have one guy not have a character but instead play the summoned creatures.

DrizztFan24
2008-04-04, 01:33 PM
No cleric
Just shapeshifter druid who likes to play melee and ignore her spells, a dragon shaman who thinks hes an unbeatable powerhouse (both played by people under the age of 14, my bro and sister), and me...the beguiler...who realizes he cant do jack squat with his spells vs most undead.

Dr Bwaa
2008-04-04, 01:47 PM
Instead of a Hand of Glory, buy a Hand of the Mage for Mage Hand at will. anything that will let you manipulate things at a distance, go for it.

Make sure someone has a couple Wands of Cure Light. wicked cheap, and makes sure people don't have to actually PREPARE healing spells (and if something doesn't kill you right off the bat, it never will, so you'll have time to heal afterwards (well, hopefully. maybe before you go to bed in your Rope Trick)).

I don't remember what it's called, but there's some kind of magic rope that can go out and tie itself to things, and untie itself, etc. Very handy; I think it's about 3k but I don't remember where it is.

DrizztFan24
2008-04-04, 01:55 PM
that rope is in the DMG, i looked at it and the attacking rope but I don't have enough cash after spending it on everything else to keep me alive to keep the rest of the party alive. Maybe someone else will be interested in buying one....or a cloak of arachnida for everyone :smallcool:

FlyMolo
2008-04-04, 02:10 PM
No cleric
Just shapeshifter druid who likes to play melee and ignore her spells, a dragon shaman who thinks hes an unbeatable powerhouse (both played by people under the age of 14, my bro and sister), and me...the beguiler...who realizes he cant do jack squat with his spells vs most undead.

The ToH isn't hard because the monsters are hard. It's a trap. The whole tomb is a trap. Take NOTHING for granted. The floor? A trap. The walls? Ditto. The ceiling is an illusion, there's a bunch of spikes up there. Don't. Assume. Anything. Even innocuous things like "This floor couldn't possibly suddenly vanish, exposing a pit of acid, while the ceiling becomes a fireball emitter." Because stuff like that happens. More than once. Be prepared.

The way to win at the ToH is to act like a paranoid Boy Scout.

Citizen Joe
2008-04-04, 02:18 PM
The way to win at the ToH is to act like a paranoid Boy Scout.
Actually, the trap to it is that even if you go through the whole thing and somehow survive, you still get pretty much nothing for your effort. I mean do you really have a reason to even go in? Why not just seal the whole thing up?

Oslecamo
2008-04-04, 02:20 PM
You know the 10 foot pole? Buy a bunch of them.

Don't touch in ANYTHING before touching it with a 10 foot pole. This includes the floor, the walls and the doors.

Seriously, that item was created for ToH.

Dr Bwaa
2008-04-04, 02:21 PM
Actually, the trap to it is that even if you go through the whole thing and somehow survive, you still get pretty much nothing for your effort. I mean do you really have a reason to even go in? Why not just seal the whole thing up?
well, you get really rich. In general, you'll commonly end up with all the gear of all the other characters you sent to die in there.

Jack_Simth
2008-04-04, 02:25 PM
The ToH isn't hard because the monsters are hard. It's a trap. The whole tomb is a trap. Take NOTHING for granted. The floor? A trap. The walls? Ditto. The ceiling is an illusion, there's a bunch of spikes up there. Don't. Assume. Anything. Even innocuous things like "This floor couldn't possibly suddenly vanish, exposing a pit of acid, while the ceiling becomes a fireball emitter." Because stuff like that happens. More than once. Be prepared.

The way to win at the ToH is to act like a paranoid Boy Scout.

So... wand of Unseen Servant (ideally Enlarged, you want as much range as possible), wand of Arcane Sight (or just Permanency Arcane Sight), a Wand of Summon Monster I (caster level 2), and several bags filled with 100 pounds of rocks....

Unseen Servants touch everything first, and drag rocks everywhere you'll be going (before you get there) to set off mechanical traps, watch everything with Arcane Sight so you know where (and what kind) of magic traps abound. Send a Summoned Monster through an area you're not sure of. Which is just about everywhere...

FlyMolo
2008-04-04, 02:37 PM
So... wand of Unseen Servant (ideally Enlarged, you want as much range as possible), wand of Arcane Sight (or just Permanency Arcane Sight), a Wand of Summon Monster I (caster level 2), and several bags filled with 100 pounds of rocks....

Unseen Servants touch everything first, and drag rocks everywhere you'll be going (before you get there) to set off mechanical traps, watch everything with Arcane Sight so you know where (and what kind) of magic traps abound. Send a Summoned Monster through an area you're not sure of. Which is just about everywhere...

Having read ToH, I think with a proper application you could survive. You'd need more than one wand of each, though. And you'd still have to be really careful. But there's a nonzero chance of you not dying.

theMycon
2008-04-04, 03:06 PM
If you can ask for on variant rule... level-zero spells are free, just for this dungeon, but you can't have more than one active at a time (so you can't give yourself arbitrarily many free 1 HP/+1 on the next save). If you can't get this (even for magehand & light? Pretty Please? What harm could it do?), then try to buy items for them- someone already mentioned mage-hand's item.

Then, magehand, light, flare, ghost sound, anything you can think to trigger everything. Poke stuff with a blunt object first, then a sharp object, then a burning one. If you think a wall can turn into flesh-eating ooze and melt your bones, it will- but it might jump at the first thing that touches it, it might bleed, or it might burn. As was said above, paranoid boyscout.

Also... it was already said that the floor, walls, & ceiling are traps. The space between them isn't automatically a trap, but it is about half the time. If it narrows, changes material, anything, run every test.

Finally, do test everything. (Example, maybe accurate, don't remember that well): You'll need to go through a hallway of death to get the lever that, after a hallway of doom you can put it in a box to get a key that, after a hallway of destruction fits three boxes, two of which are traps and the third holds another key for two doors in that first hallway of death, only one of which will kill you instantly- with no way of distinguishing between the boxes or the doors.

Citizen Joe
2008-04-04, 03:16 PM
Or just go blindly into the dungeon, get killed and then grin as you eat the DM's last slice of pizza. Rejoice in being free from a DM who would actually consider running such a game as anything but a one shot.

APWhite
2008-04-04, 04:28 PM
OK, that's enough advice for him. I will be DrizztFan's DM for this adventure. Don't spoil it for him. He will learn a lot about a proper dungeon crawl on this one.

My favorite advice you have given him so far is "touch everything, touch nothing." I am fully expecting him to send his younger siblings in first. Maybe he will invite the neighbor kid over to play and give him a 11th level Gestalt Bard/Rogue.

Two of the party members can fly at will. That might help them.

The 10' pole is good advice. The lock of hair to a cleric is great advice.

DrizztFan will survive because he is careful. The druid will survive because he is in Bird Form and flies everywhere. The Dragon shaman is gonna croak because he runs in to everything this looks around.

APWhite.

DrizztFan24
2008-04-04, 05:01 PM
The way to win at the ToH is to act like a paranoid Boy Scout.

So we set the whole thing on fire ans assume that the leader is going to catch us at any moment?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-04, 05:36 PM
So we set the whole thing on fire ans assume that the leader is going to catch us at any moment?Generally, yes. In fact, if I ever actually got to go through the tomb, after escaping, my character would probably Minor Creation oil. Lots of oil. Barrels, in fact. Then roll them into the tomb from outside, pour in more oil, and Fireball. Burn a good chunk of the place down, and make the world a bit better place.

Of course, the Devils would just fix it back up in a year, but my character would feel like he accomplished something.

APWhite
2008-04-04, 05:57 PM
My secretary asked me about the adventure today while I was preparing it. I told her the kids would "get rich or die trying."

Jack_Simth
2008-04-04, 06:56 PM
Having read ToH, I think with a proper application you could survive. You'd need more than one wand of each, though. And you'd still have to be really careful. But there's a nonzero chance of you not dying.

Okay... so at 11th level....

Wizard build, full caster of some flavor or another.
Important Feats:
Summon Elemental (Complete Mage Reserve Feat)
Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage)

Important Spells:
Arcane Sight
Permanency (for Arcane Sight; get a scroll if need be)
Rope Trick

Important Items:
Lots of bags
Tools for smashing things into rocks to place into bags.
Rope for Rope Trick
Wand of Summon Monster (in case I need to be able to identify the results of something I'm not certain of).
Disposable minions Other Party Members

Anti-trap tactics:
Permanency Arcane Sight. Gives 120 foot warning of upcoming magic traps.
Use Summon Elemental Reserve Feat, a lot. Have it Run everywhere (and then vanish, and summon a new one, rinse and repeat). It can appear at up to 30 feet away, and only vanishes at the end of your turn - which means at a full Run, it can get up to 30 feet + 4*it's move - for a Medium Earth Elemental (keeping a 6th level spell slot in reserve), that's 110 foot range for setting stuff off. Repeated every round. And the thing weighs in at 750 pounds, so there's no worries about it being too light to set something off that I will.

Anti-Monster Tactics: This looks like a job for the Disposable minions Other Party Members. Maybe get a few wands of some nice, broken, 2nd level spells, like Web, so I'm not seeming to avoid contributing. Or play around with the Summon Elemental reserve feat a lot.

Puzzles:
If something needs moving, prodding, or poking, that's the job of a summoned elemental, from the reserve feat. If it goes insane, just summon another, the first will instantly vanish. If it dies, just summon another.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-04, 07:02 PM
Knock is important. There's at least one DC 40 lock I can remember, and you can't take 20 on it. The bleeding one. Also, Detect Traps. Of course, I'd rule you were blinded for 1d4 rounds if you cast it inside the tomb, but by RaW it should work normally.

Turcano
2008-04-04, 07:22 PM
Knock is important. There's at least one DC 40 lock I can remember, and you can't take 20 on it. The bleeding one.

Ah, the Flood of Blood, the nastiest trap in the whole tomb.

Kalirren
2008-04-04, 09:37 PM
LOL. This makes me want to either run this or play this, just because it would be funny.

I'm trying very hard to think of a way to get incorporeality/ethereality/anything that would allow you to reconnoiter the place with minimal risk of triggering anything. Notably, there's Find the Path (divination), which you could even pay for in a pinch. Although I'm sure there's something in there which blocks divinations.

You could buy a scroll of Create Greater Undead, make a shadow, command the shadow by rebuking it, go into the sewers, use the shadow to make more shadows one at a time by Str-draining rats, comand those shadows, and then use the quasi-dominate power of "see through your thrall's eyes" to look into the layout of the place, replacing shadows as you lost them. That would at least give you the topographic layout, even if you couldn't see poison.

Angel in Black
2008-04-04, 09:49 PM
LOL. This makes me want to either run this or play this, just because it would be funny.

I'm trying very hard to think of a way to get incorporeality/ethereality/anything that would allow you to reconnoiter the place with minimal risk of triggering anything. Notably, there's Find the Path (divination), which you could even pay for in a pinch. Although I'm sure there's something in there which blocks divinations.

You could buy a scroll of Create Greater Undead, make a shadow, command the shadow by rebuking it, go into the sewers, use the shadow to make more shadows one at a time by Str-draining rats, comand those shadows, and then use the quasi-dominate power of "see through your thrall's eyes" to look into the layout of the place, replacing shadows as you lost them. That would at least give you the topographic layout, even if you couldn't see poison.

Ah. Another bit of advice: Being ethereal makes horrible things happen. Don't do it.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-04, 09:51 PM
Yeah, do not do anything Ethereal or Incorporeal. Nothing at all. Do not summon monsters that can become one of those 2, do not cast anything to cause that. It is a bad idea.

FlyMolo
2008-04-04, 10:52 PM
Also, Detect Traps. Of course, I'd rule you were blinded for 1d4 rounds if you cast it inside the tomb, but by RaW it should work normally.

I would describe it like this: As you finish the spell, you open your eyes, expecting to see traps outlined in blue light. At first, you think that the spell has gone horribly, horribly wrong. You can't see anything in front of you, only a blue glow that comes from every surface, permeating the whole tomb as far as you can see.

obvious pun
2008-04-05, 02:43 PM
Yeah, do not do anything Ethereal or Incorporeal. Nothing at all. Do not summon monsters that can become one of those 2, do not cast anything to cause that. It is a bad idea.

Now I have to know. What happens when you do go/ have something else go ethereal/ incorporeal?

Deth Muncher
2008-04-05, 05:26 PM
Now I have to know. What happens when you do go/ have something else go ethereal/ incorporeal?

Yeah, I'm a bit confused here too. I had a halfling sorceror who could go incorporeal with a cloak and he did just fine. Nothing bad ever happened to him. Well, I mean, there was this one ring that he had...

mostlyharmful
2008-04-05, 05:45 PM
Well, lets put it this way. When I first tried to run through it my wizard tried it. He got chewed up and spat out. If your DM didn't use those particular ToH fixtures then it lacks a certain something.. Chewed up in three turns...

SilverClawShift
2008-04-05, 05:51 PM
Now I have to know. What happens when you do go/ have something else go ethereal/ incorporeal?

Spoilers, because players aren't supposed to know, it's for DMs.


Messing with the ethereal plane causes demons loyal to the tomb itself to swarm you like...something that swarms. Every 1d4 rounds, another batch will just show up and be all up on your grill.

They stop showing up when you stop messing with the ethereal or astral planes, but then you're still dealing with what WOULD be a CR appropriate encounter.... if you weren't fighting two or three CR approrpiate encounters at the same time.

DrizztFan24
2008-04-06, 08:04 PM
Care to read the first 1/2 of the adventure we are running? This ends just after my turn. Those who will be playing soon do not read.
HAHA we are running the adventure currently, We decided explore the first two false passages. We found the two pits just inside the real passage. Found the secret door behind the prison thing. Opened the door behind the door and found the gargoyle...roll initiative.

I win and decided to pop my eversmoking bottle to gain concealment to hide. Gargoyle flies past me and I take my sneak attack damage for 3d6. Gargoyle manages a natural 20 on his spot check to find me. I take 74 damage just off of the claw attacks with damage reduction. Instant -20 HP. I, the paranoid beguiler, died in the first encounter. But in my defense how the heck is a 4 armed, optimized gargoyle only a challenge rating 11? +24 to hit?

EDIT: my 50% miss chance from the evermsoking bottle saved me. Now I am only at 2 HP instead of -20. After that my Shapeshifter Druid sister went 19/20/17....instantly killing the guy with over 150 hp left.

SithLackey
2008-04-06, 08:57 PM
That's interesting. I'm in the tomb myself, and my party of cleric(maxed), cleric(minned), sorcerer(not maxed), wizard(not maxed), rogue(decent), monk(saves), monk(AC), and fighter(dex... ugh) is doing just fine. The fight in the above post has been the hardest part by far (stupid rend).
Although we're only in the second hall, or whichever one has all of those orb mosaics, and I don't know how much is after that.

FlyMolo
2008-04-06, 09:23 PM
That's interesting. I'm in the tomb myself, and my party of cleric(maxed), cleric(minned), sorcerer(not maxed), wizard(not maxed), rogue(decent), monk(saves), monk(AC), and fighter(dex... ugh) is doing just fine. The fight in the above post has been the hardest part by far (stupid rend).
Although we're only in the second hall, or whichever one has all of those orb mosaics, and I don't know how much is after that.

A lot, or a little, depending. It's very non-linear. It branches, and it's hard to find your way to the guy in the middle. But if you do, expect to die in several arbitrary ways, then get really rich.

APWhite
2008-04-06, 10:22 PM
Worth the read if you play with your own kids [or a girl].

Well, as some of you know, I marked up Tomb of Horrors for Maptool and just started our first session with the kids tonight. As a refresh, we have me (GM), 3 of my kids (ages 17,13,11) and our cousin (13), each on laptops running Maptool and theonlysheet.

My son is totally paranoid about Tomb of Horrors, he is the Beguiller/Sassin, and, thanks to you guys here, cis certain ToH is a death trap. OK, he's right, it is a death trap. But it's his level of paranoia that is so funny. Every step, I mean every step, he is using his 10' pole and tapping the floor, walls and such. He has a Arachnida cloak and walking on the walls and ceiling and never hitting the floor. Searching and researching everything. He bought nearly every mundane item in the PHB. Chalk? He even bought chalk! He gave a lock of hair to a cleric and prepaid for his Rez spell if he does not return in a week. It's overkill.

His sister is totally carefree. She plays a Shapeshift Druid (clevel 11), spends most of her time in Bat form.

So here is the meat of the story. The kids encounter the nasty 4-armed gargoyle that has 4 attacks at +24 to hit (each). The paranoid Beguiller unstops an eversmoking bottle to give himself Concealment and Hide. The gargoyle goes right passed him, targetting the others in the party.

"As the gargoyle passes me, I take a sneak attack against him, then retreat into the corner." he declares. Again he walks on walls and ceilings.

After a painful wound, the gargoyle spins to find who just shanked his stone kidneys. It rolls a natural 20 on the Spot and rakes, rends, rakes some more. In one attack, the beguiller is brought to 2 HP, and that is even have 2 attacks miss due to 50% concealment. He is gonna die next round for sure.

The little sister declares, "I am a bat, so I have echolocation (blindsense) and Fly-By Attack Feat. So I will move into the smoke filled room, attack the gargoyle with claws then fly further into the smoke so he can't find me. Then stuff [beguiler]'s body into my bag of holding so I can get him rezzed."

"OK, roll for your attack" I tell her. The whole time I am thinking that she is a gonner, even with her 36 AC, she only does like 1d6+6 damage. So what does she roll?

"Natural 19, baby! booya critical threat...... and my confirmation....... ... Natural 20. Oh ya." She screams, spilling her popcorn.

At this point, the game goes into time-stop, we break out the video camera and retell the story thus far. Reminding the camera that we play the instant death rule with a "critical-20-hit" as found in the DMG. She confirms her bonus to hit (+12) then checks the monsters armor class. All she needs is a 6 to hit, and subsequently instantly kill the gargoyle who still has +150 HP and took down one character in only one round.

Everyone gathers around her and she tosses her very girly-pink-swirly die-20. The Roll? a 17! "[Batgirl], you fly in and use your tiny bat claws to gouge the Gargoyle. It is rendered off balance due to the smoke. It falls backwards into the spiked pit and is impaled on the sharp, poisoned spines. A pool of blood slowly fills the bottom of the pit. The gargoyle is motionless."

The reckless one wins the day, the paranoid one nearly gets killed because he was a little too cocky.

bugsysservant
2008-04-06, 10:25 PM
Okay... so at 11th level....

Wizard build, full caster of some flavor or another.
Important Feats:
Summon Elemental (Complete Mage Reserve Feat)
Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage)

Important Spells:
Arcane Sight
Permanency (for Arcane Sight; get a scroll if need be)
Rope Trick

Important Items:
Lots of bags
Tools for smashing things into rocks to place into bags.
Rope for Rope Trick
Wand of Summon Monster (in case I need to be able to identify the results of something I'm not certain of).
Disposable minions Other Party Members

Anti-trap tactics:
Permanency Arcane Sight. Gives 120 foot warning of upcoming magic traps.
Use Summon Elemental Reserve Feat, a lot. Have it Run everywhere (and then vanish, and summon a new one, rinse and repeat). It can appear at up to 30 feet away, and only vanishes at the end of your turn - which means at a full Run, it can get up to 30 feet + 4*it's move - for a Medium Earth Elemental (keeping a 6th level spell slot in reserve), that's 110 foot range for setting stuff off. Repeated every round. And the thing weighs in at 750 pounds, so there's no worries about it being too light to set something off that I will.

Anti-Monster Tactics: This looks like a job for the Disposable minions Other Party Members. Maybe get a few wands of some nice, broken, 2nd level spells, like Web, so I'm not seeming to avoid contributing. Or play around with the Summon Elemental reserve feat a lot.

Puzzles:
If something needs moving, prodding, or poking, that's the job of a summoned elemental, from the reserve feat. If it goes insane, just summon another, the first will instantly vanish. If it dies, just summon another.

I would toss in a tenser's floating disc. Because even if you've run over the corridor with a 700 lb elemental, floating three feat off the ground, never touching anything can't be a bad thing.

Jack_Simth
2008-04-06, 10:35 PM
I would toss in a tenser's floating disc. Because even if you've run over the corridor with a 700 lb elemental, floating three feat off the ground, never touching anything can't be a bad thing.Only problem is that Tensor's Floating Disk doesn't work that way. It follows the caster, it doesn't lead. If you have someone else cast it, you can ride it... but that someone else is the caster, and has to lead.

Now, if we have everyone play a nice, small race, have a Druid in the party with a Dire Bat familiar, have the Druid cast Reduce Animal on the Dire Bat, cast Reduce Person (and Permanency) on everyone in the party, then we could manage that....

tomaO2
2008-04-06, 10:50 PM
Hey, neat. Please keep up writing about this ToH campaign, as I'm interested to hear what happens in it. I knew about this but I've never really read too much on it before reading this thread.

bugsysservant
2008-04-06, 11:06 PM
Only problem is that Tensor's Floating Disk doesn't work that way. It follows the caster, it doesn't lead. If you have someone else cast it, you can ride it... but that someone else is the caster, and has to lead.

Now, if we have everyone play a nice, small race, have a Druid in the party with a Dire Bat familiar, have the Druid cast Reduce Animal on the Dire Bat, cast Reduce Person (and Permanency) on everyone in the party, then we could manage that....

Huh, I always assumed that it did. I know that the default is that it follows you, but the line

If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you.
always struck me that it could do other things. But I can definitely see where you're coming from there.