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Sensate
2008-04-04, 01:42 AM
Yes, I would like to learn how to roleplay. Since I don't have any friends of the same disposition, I intend to roleplay on this forum, starting with The Town and Structured Games Forum, and then move on to more serious games. I have read the Guide to Play-by-Post gaming sticky, and I've started reading the Hypertext D20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/). My questions are:

1) What exactly should I *know* from this SRD? I'll read all the core rules of course, but do I need to learn what every magic does, all the monsters etc. or can I just look that up as I go? (I have some pre-knowledge from playing computer RPGs)

2) Is it necessary to buy some of the D&D rulebooks because I've noticed some things are copyrighted and cannot be found online? If yes, which are necessary for starters?

Thank you in advance.

Zincorium
2008-04-04, 01:50 AM
1. Unfortunately, you'll need to have at least a general understanding of everything your character will do/what can happen to your character. Just because you're a rogue doesn't mean you can gloss over the grappling rules and not expect to run into a problem in-game.

Once things are explained to you, and you've figured out the general way of things, looking it up is perfectly acceptable, but try to reduce the number of times you have to look things up as opposed to just rolling with it (as the former can jerk everyone out of immersion).

2. Buying the player's handbook is a good idea, I'm not sure what the people who advise going just by the SRD are trying to assert. Thirty bucks (less now) isn't too much to spend to get the explanations behind things and having a hard copy is just plain vital for some people.

On the other hand, fourth edition is coming fairly soon, and if you think you may convert, wait to buy until you've figured out which is going to be more useful overall.

Breaw
2008-04-04, 01:53 AM
I recommend you buy a players handbook (PHB), and if you don't intend to run games for a while, that is all you need. Some players will have many suggestions of different books you should buy based on what class you are playing (and there are a ton out there) but you can do a lot with the core rules, and I encourage you to start with that.

As for what you should know: you should know how to do the things you'll be doing regularly. If you are a Wizard then you should know what the save DC for all your spells are and have a strong idea of exactly what your 4 most commonly used do. If you are a ranger you should know what you add to your attack rolls when using rapid shot or when you fire a single arrow.

In general, pick the 4 or 5 things you expect to do the most and figure out what number are involved in such activities. Nothing is more irritating than a player who needs to turn to the PHB or character sheet every time the GM asks you to roll initiative.

So, off the top of my head:

-Know your initiative modifier
-Know your spot and listen modifiers
-Know your modifier for you 3 most commonly used skills (other than those previously listed)
-Know the numbers associated with the 3 or 4 most commonly used 'attacks' whether they be magical or mundane
-If you are planning on playing a caster, figure out how counterspell /spellcraft works


To be honest, the biggest advantage to being a new player is that even simple things can be a great challenge for you. You don't necessarily know the best way to kill undead, or a troll. You don't know what a gelatenous cube is. These are fun things to discover, and by not memorizing the monster manual or DMG, you'll allow yourself to discover these things in game.

Welcome to the cult... I mean club.

Tempest Fennac
2008-04-04, 02:20 AM
This website contains a lot of spells and classes which aren't on the SDR sites which you may find useful: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/ . When you mention rollplaying, are you refering solely to playing RPGs, or playing the roll of a particular character? If it's the latter, joining HALO or AMEN could help (starting with a character who's similar to your real life pesonality may be a good idea).

Sensate
2008-04-04, 03:55 AM
This website contains a lot of spells and classes which aren't on the SDR sites which you may find useful: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/ . When you mention rollplaying, are you refering solely to playing RPGs, or playing the roll of a particular character? If it's the latter, joining HALO or AMEN could help (starting with a character who's similar to your real life pesonality may be a good idea).
Yes, like I've said, I'll try playing in the Structured Games Forum and The Town first to get the feel for it. Thanks for that link, it's quite useful.

And of course, thanks to you too, Zincorium and Breaw, those are the answers I was looking for. I'll definitely consider getting the Player's Handbook.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-04, 04:03 AM
2) Is it necessary to buy some of the D&D rulebooks because I've noticed some things are copyrighted and cannot be found online? If yes, which are necessary for starters?

For starters, that depends on whether you want to play a roleplaying game (of which there are many), or want to play D&D specifically (which may or may not be to your tastes, but is one of the more complex RPGs on the market, and may not be the best game for a beginner who wishes to teach himself).

That said, no, you don't need to buy anything to play D&D, everything you need is on d20srd.org and/or crystalkeep. The two thing that's technically forbidden to put on the web are the "experience points for next level" table (which you won't be needing at first) and the "character creation point buy" table (which is trivially easy, and found all over the internet anyway).

Cainen
2008-04-04, 04:11 AM
A fair warning, as I know you're a Planescape fan: the 3E conversion of it is less than stellar(ALL of the core PS races have LA), and its fluff used the Faction Wars as canon. If you can iron out the problems yourself, you'll be fine, but don't do it by the book if you liked 2E Planescape.

Zincorium
2008-04-04, 04:16 AM
For starters, that depends on whether you want to play a roleplaying game (of which there are many), or want to play D&D specifically (which may or may not be to your tastes, but is one of the more complex RPGs on the market, and may not be the best game for a beginner who wishes to teach himself).

Agreed, but there are very few games which have the population of players that D&D does. I'd love to get an Alternity group together, but it's just not going to happen. If you do decide to go to another system, GURPS and some of the white wolf games (vampire the masquerade) have good populations of players.


That said, no, you don't need to buy anything to play D&D, everything you need is on d20srd.org and/or crystalkeep. The two thing that's technically forbidden to put on the web are the "experience points for next level" table (which you won't be needing at first) and the "character creation point buy" table (which is trivially easy, and found all over the internet anyway).

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree in the specific circumstance. While, as a reference, the SRD is nearly complete and crystal keep has the base mechanics of nearly everything, it's less than ideal for a player who has never read the rules as they're laid out in the PHB.

If you're really smart, learn fast, and have a distinct lack of pocket money, the SRD works for a new player, but the PHB is designed and laid out for people who've never played D&D before.

Cainen
2008-04-04, 04:18 AM
Agreed, but there are very few games which have the population of players that D&D does. I'd love to get an Alternity group together, but it's just not going to happen. If you do decide to go to another system, GURPS and some of the white wolf games (vampire the masquerade) have good populations of players.

Why would you ever suggest GURPS to someone who might be scared of D&D's complexity? White Wolf games are good for simplicity, but GURPS is like D&D on crack with the amount of stuff you need to know. I love it to death, but there's no way you could get me to say it's simpler.

Zincorium
2008-04-04, 04:26 AM
Why would you ever suggest GURPS to someone who might be scared of D&D's complexity? White Wolf games are good for simplicity, but GURPS is like D&D on crack with the amount of stuff you need to know. I love it to death, but there's no way you could get me to say it's simpler.

I never said simpler, notice how I used Alternity as a reference. But GURPS is definitely more common than the really simple games (like Squeek) that work well for beginning players.

White wolf games are simple mechanically but (ideally) are fairly complicated in regards to the actual gameplay, working with the politics of a truly alien world that you've been pulled into. You can also play it as 'let's burn down or diablerize everything', but that's kind of missing the point.

Bender
2008-04-04, 04:34 AM
Certainly for PbP, you don't have to know a lot. Some basic combat rules and skill uses, so you have an idea what is possible, and the specifics of the class and race you are playing. If you just want to have fun, you can pick spells, feats, items on the name only, and familiarise yourself only with those. If you want to be more optimised, you'll have to read more.
Only bother with reading about magic if you want to play a spellcaster or play in higher level games.
Everything you don't know, the GM will probably know, and if you don't know a specific number: in PbP you have plenty of time to look things up, so it doesn't slow down play, and you don't have to remember everything.

If you don't run your own game, do not read about monsters. You can probably skip most of the spells and all the classes and races you're not playing.

If you go for D&D: the player handbook is fun to read, and much nicer to read than srd anyway.
In June a new edition is coming out, so you might want to wait a few months before you buy it, otherwise you'll be stuck with an 'obsolete' book almost immediately. I don't know how fast 4e games will start here, but probably rather fast.
I suspect there will be 3.5e games for quite a while too, though.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-04, 04:50 AM
While, as a reference, the SRD is nearly complete and crystal keep has the base mechanics of nearly everything, it's less than ideal for a player who has never read the rules as they're laid out in the PHB.

I don't agree. The PHB also lists everything in chapter order, and the SRD has crosslinks. But I know that some people prefer a physical book to read. I just don't like suggesting to people to buy books for something that they're not sure they will like yet.

warmachine
2008-04-04, 05:17 AM
I recommend buying the Player's Handbook as well. It explains various rules whilst the SRD only lists specific data. You don't need to know all the monsters as the DM will use new ones anyway. You do need to know useful feats and spells and how they can be used and used against you. The following are some useful, basic tips. There are always exceptions. I'm sure others can supply others.

Melee fighters generally should use a two handed weapon and know when to use Power Attack. It's very useful.
A spellcaster in melee is not prevented from casting as he can 5 foot step away or can easily cast defensively at high levels.
The game is built around Melee fighter/Trapfinder/Divine caster/Arcane caster roles. Only use Bard or Monk as a fifth character as they can't do any of these roles well.
Characters bunched up can be usefully Fireballed and those lined up in a corridor can be usefully Lightning Bolted. Spread out against area effect magic but not so much that people can be picked off.
For Clerics, know team saving spells: Command (counter magically dominated colleagues), Freedom of Movement (some monsters grab with unbeatable grapple), Holy Smite (centre it on your good colleague who's surrounded), Invisibility Purge, Remove Paralysis, Silence (forces spellcasters out of an area).
For arcane casters, know the sublime spells: Fly (immunity to melee), Glitterdust (spell resistance has no effect), Invisibility (Rogue can sneak attack once without needing to flank).

Kalirren
2008-04-04, 12:07 PM
OP: I would advise that the distinction between learning how to role-play and learning how to use a role-playing system (e.g., D&D) be kept as separate as possible. These are related, but fundamentally different questions. If you want to know how to use D&D, the idea is quite simple. Look through as much of the material as you have access to, and find the combinations of character choices that are stronger than the others. These define the viable character niches in the game to the same extent that your gaming group accepts the power of game rules to dictate traits of the game world.

The SRD, while slightly helter-skelter in its organization, is plenty good, and knowing well the rules contained within the SRD is enough to understand most of what goes on in a D&D session. I will disagree with the majority here: I am personally of the opinion that no one really needs the PHB over a hardcopy of an accurate SRD, although you may find otherwise. This holds especially if you've had experience with D&D-esque computer RPGs.

As a system, D&D is character-centric and combat-centric, so start with those two sections. Your DM can deal with most of the monsters, etc, and will usually tell you what rolls to make in special situations. If you have the time, I would advise reading thorugh the entire SRD once, perhaps even twice. Then, look at a standard character sheet and find out what every field means and how and when to use it. Then you should be fine. Learn basic combat before you learn skills before you learn feats before you learn spells.

If, however, your goal is to learn how to role-play, then the most important advice I can give is to play under as many different role-playing systems as possible. All of these systems lead to different player dynamics and group dynamics, and playing under a good variety of systems is the best way to become accustomed to adapting to all the different dynamics you will encounter, both as a player and as a future GM/moderator/storyteller.

Freeform: My first role-playing experience, for instance, was forum-based diceless systemless freeform. It was a very valuable experience, from which I learned both the virtues of playing wthout system (not having to deal with optimization, ruleslawyering, or constraining character design to conform wth system limitations) and the vices of such an approach (i.e., without a system, every post became like a cover letter and resume of one's past character accomplishments and training, with overly detailed descriptions of otherwise insignificant thought processes and other extraneous details.)

Warlock: This is a homebrew version of 1E D&D made by a few people who couldn't stand certain inconsistencies of that system. The most detailed combat system I've ever used, perhaps needlessly so. But the people I played it with had been playing it for ~20 years, so even if every attack required a table, combats were still resolved quicker than they were in many of my 3.5e D&D games.

3.5e D&D: Never have I encountered a population of players so eager to apply system rules to aspects of the game world whose behavior should instead be dictated by common sense. On the players' part, the whole "powergaming" thing is just an outgrowth of this. Wizards of the Coast just feeds (off of) this player dynamic by releasing more and more sourcebooks, creating many different possible types of "balance" for the game.

World of Darkness d10: Notable for a more adaptable skill system and a far more clunky combat system than D&D. Also notable for mechanics that directly describe characters' mental and emotional states, which is something that, while useful, eventually proves tricky to manage, if not downright aggravating.

Sensate
2008-04-04, 02:30 PM
You clearly know what you're talking about Kalirren (not that the others who have posted here don't :smallbiggrin: ) - thanks for the valuable tips.

I have made a couple of decision:

1) I will read through the entire d20 SRD twice, as Kalirren suggested.

2) Player's Handbook still looks very interesting, be it necessary or not, and I'd like to have that book. When the 4e version comes out.

3) I have already joined a game on this forum where mostly newbies at roleplaying and D&D are going to participated, guided by a willing-to-help individual, Dull_Oddity. Practice is bound to help speed up the learning process.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-04, 02:48 PM
1) I will read through the entire d20 SRD twice, as Kalirren suggested.

2) Player's Handbook still looks very interesting, be it necessary or not, and I'd like to have that book. When the 4e version comes out.

You are, I hope, aware that those two points are in direct contradiction to one another? 4E is a completely new and different system.

Kalirren
2008-04-04, 03:07 PM
^^ He's right.

The 4e PHB isn't the 4th edition of the PHB, it's the PHB for the 4th edition of D&D, which will be a different game on many levels from 3.5e D&D. If you want the 3.5e PHB at all, then buy it now. You won't gain anything by waiting for 4e to come out.

Sensate
2008-04-04, 03:16 PM
^^ He's right.

The 4e PHB isn't the 4th edition of the PHB, it's the PHB for the 4th edition of D&D, which will be a different game on many levels from 3.5e D&D. If you want the 3.5e PHB at all, then buy it now. You won't gain anything by waiting for 4e to come out.

Ah, but I am hoping there would be at least some similarity between the 3.5e and 4e editions. So until 4e PHB comes out and most of the players switch to 4e, I'll use the 3.5e SRD and roleplay using that ruleset. Then again, I might be contradicting myself again; I hope you can understand the sometimes overwhelming confusion a newbie such as myself is in.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-04, 03:20 PM
Ah, but I am hoping there would be at least some similarity between the 3.5e and 4e editions. So until 4e PHB comes out and most of the players switch to 4e, I'll use the 3.5e SRD and roleplay using that ruleset.

I suppose it can be confusing. But the intent of 4th edition is to be as different from 3.5th as possible; converting characters is probably not even an option in many cases. WOTC is primarily aiming at new players, not existing players. Therefore, it is not a given that "most of the players" will switch, either. In fact, at least one company (Paizo) is putting their money on the idea that a lot of people will continue playing 3.5.

Sensate
2008-04-04, 03:24 PM
I suppose it can be confusing. But the intent of 4th edition is to be as different from 3.5th as possible; converting characters is probably not even an option in many cases. WOTC is primarily aiming at new players, not existing players. Therefore, it is not a given that "most of the players" will switch, either. In fact, at least one company (Paizo) is putting their money on the idea that a lot of people will continue playing 3.5.

In either case, I suppose it can't hurt to put any book purchases on hold until I see which ruleset I'll decide to "consume".