Review of HP Concept

[Jangoose]

Hey, I have seen lots of people who are so stuck on the rules that they can't seem to accept that high level characters can get hit hundreds of times in combat and still come out fine and so feel they have to change the rules to save the system,

so i thought i'd take a crack at enlightening them...

alright. first of all, in real life, there is no technical HP counter... we don't lose life in tidy little portions until finally we die. often in reality, it is a single shot, or a single stab, or a single explosion.

The big thing is: shouldn't it be like that in dnd?... of course, but that doesn't mean you have to go lopping off people's hp.

hp is a concept, not a specific value... potentially, if you are role-playing, that fighter that got hit hundreds of times before finally dying didn't actually have to get hit.

the dm could just as easily have said:

"and the guardsman lunges stabbing you (again) in the leg (you take 12 damage)"

as

"the guardsmans blade just barely glances off your shield, you can feel yourself beginning to tire. This fight won't last long one way or the other (you take 12 damage)"

in both instances, the character is now 12 out of whatever hitpoints closer to the blow that does kill them.

The point is, that you do not need to describe every attack that lowers hit-points as a slash or a strike.

For example, in a duel, the duelists don't actually just stab each other repeatedly until they die, so technically you don't have to describe it as such. potentially, you could describe the fight as each duelist only narrowly blocking his opponent's blow until finally one of them lands a killing blow.

just because -10 hit points means "death", that doesn't mean that 1 hp has to mean "stabbed thirty times"

comments, critiques??:smallconfused:

[roll4d6b3]

[Pie Guy]

It's better than normal.

Fantasy fights go something like this.

Fighter: Hey Cleric, can you help with my injuries?
Cleric: Only 8 swords, 4 javelins, 6 axes, and fire in your head? no problem!

Reality

Fighter: *Thunk*
Cleric: well that's not good...

[JackTR69]

I'd always assumed that this was how hp worked. I mean, come on. Can your level twelve fighter really get stabbed 23 times with a long spear and still be functioning fully? No, so he must only have some light cuts and shallow stab wounds, and be getting a little tired of fighting those pesky enlarged kobolds. So yes, your idea is a good one, because you don't actually have to change the game for it to work just as well. What I like to do is describe the wounds that bring you down below 10-20 hp as being ones that actually hurt you. Which means I get to have alot of fun telling my pcs wizards that they might just have to clean their own spleen up off the floor.

[vegetalss4]

Can your level twelve fighter really get stabbed 23 times with a long spear and still be functioning fully?

Yes he can, because at level twelve he closer to being a demigod than to being even the most fantastic person from our world

[Nebo_]

Yes he can, because at level twelve he closer to being a demigod than to being even the most fantastic person from our world

That might be fine for your game, but verisimilitude is important in mine.

Death to the non-threatening shoulder wound!

[MythMage]

This is generally very good advice (it actually says that hit points don't represent raw injury in the Player's Handbook on page 145); I'm surprised how many people don't follow it.

[Hazkali]

It depends on the style of game that you're going for. I do go for the "hit points equals raw damage" approach; It works for me that high level characters can basically tear great chunks of flesh out of one another and still be functioning, because I've read old legends and stories where this has happened. Ultimately, I go for "fantastical" fantasy when playing D+D, as opposed to "real life in a different world". If I wanted one-shot kills and soforth, I would use a different system.

[Orzel]

I always uses HP and damage as levels of threat. A longsword deals 1-8 damage. John the blacksmith has 5 HP. If a basic sword attack threatens his life (scores a hit), John either makes a lucky dodge or parry (1-4 damage) or gets stabbed in the chest (5-8 damage). Sir James and his 100 HP can parry and dodge better than John. He won't be slain by a basic longsword attack until he is worn out by other threatening attacks.

It's like video gaming. If you stink, you might crap out on level 1. But if you are an expert, it might take several hours of nonstop gaming before your brain breaks and you hit a game over screen.

The part that doesn't make sense is bonus damage. You miss, why and I burning!

[Fostire]

I'd always assumed that this was how hp worked. I mean, come on. Can your level twelve fighter really get stabbed 23 times with a long spear and still be functioning fully? No, so he must only have some light cuts and shallow stab wounds, and be getting a little tired of fighting those pesky enlarged kobolds. So yes, your idea is a good one, because you don't actually have to change the game for it to work just as well. What I like to do is describe the wounds that bring you down below 10-20 hp as being ones that actually hurt you. Which means I get to have alot of fun telling my pcs wizards that they might just have to clean their own spleen up off the floor.

Although i like to think of it this way too, it still doesn't explain sneak attacks, critical hits and the massive damage rule.

[Bago!!!]

I always assumed hitpoints as rolling with the blows and being hit by glancing blows. Crits I always thought as DIRECT HIT!

Sneak attacks, vital shot! Depending oin the damage dealt, you it may have only been a glancing blow.

Massive damage is a MORTALLY wounding blow. Even if you rolled with it, the damage would still be enough to kill someone. Muahahahahahahaha!!!

But yeah, thats my idea of how the system works. :smallsmile:



But for those who like one shot kills that still happen, perhaps the wounds and vitality system is what your looking for.

[Demented]

That might be fine for your game, but verisimilitude is important in mine.

Death to the non-threatening shoulder wound!

Play low-level games.
At level 3, nobody likes to be blasted by a fireball.

Of course, you won't be a threat to the adult dragon up the hill, but I think that's just how it should be.
Four guys with spears shouldn't be testing the patience of a 3,000 pound fire-breathing dinosaur.

[RyanM]

Problems with using HP like that are basically:

What's the point of subdual damage? Subdual and lethal are both the same.

How does magical healing work? Why can the same spell bring a 1st level guy back from the brink of passing out, while it basically just heals a scratch on a high level guy?

How does nonmagical healing work? Same issues as above.

How does bed rest work? Same issues as above.

[Rizban]

Problems with using HP like that are basically:

What's the point of subdual damage? Subdual and lethal are both the same.

How does magical healing work? Why can the same spell bring a 1st level guy back from the brink of passing out, while it basically just heals a scratch on a high level guy?

How does nonmagical healing work? Same issues as above.

How does bed rest work? Same issues as above.
Same reason it's harder to get the needle stabbed through a body builder's chest into his heart to inject drugs to get his heart restarted than it is to get the same needle into the typical flabby gamer. It could also be that the high level guy has built up a tolerance to magical healing so that it takes an ever increasing dose to get the same high... *cough* I mean "same healing."

Bed rest is just silly. I've never healed severe wounds and been cured of all ills with a mere 8 hours of rest.