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Coplantor
2008-04-04, 11:16 PM
So, I'm starting threads today. I've read and looked through the net trying to learn more about GURPS but I still dont quite get the idea of it and since the best way to learn before buying it is to listen to someone with experience in the topic I ask in here hoping to find someone to answer to my plead: What is exactly GURPS? How does the system works? And since the catch of it seems to be it's versatulity: How versatile is it?

Lord Iames Osari
2008-04-04, 11:27 PM
GURPS works like this: You start with a certain number of points at chargen, and you can spend them to build up your basic abilities, your skills, and some other things, like advantages and disadvantages.

Your skills (which include your combat abilities) and some other things work like this: you take one of your four basic abilities - Strength (ST), Dexterity (DX), Intelligence (IQ), and Health (HT) and add or subtract a number to it, depending on how difficult the skill is and how many points you spent on it. That number (base ability +/- modifier) is your target number, and you have to roll that number or below to succeed on using that skill.

As for the versatility of GURPS, it's very versatile. They meant it when they named it the Generic Universal Roleplaying System. What that versatility means, though, is that while GURPS can do any genre and setting well (given the right combination of optional rules), it generally won't do it as well as an RPG designed exclusively for that genre/setting. That's a consequence of the fact that you need optional rules to emulate certain genre conventions, that those optional rules sometimes override the basic rules with which you might be more familiar, and that it can be hard to know which optional rules to apply to a given campaign in GURPS, whereas with a dedicated game system, all the rules you need are the base rules.

Yahzi
2008-04-05, 02:03 AM
How versatile is it?
Very.

However, it tends to be realistic, not heroic. Consider the following examples:


D&D: A heroic warrior (say, 10th level) has about 100 hit points or so. An assault rifle does 1d12 damage. Tripled on a crit (about 5%).


GURPS: A hero with the constitution of an Olympic athlete has 18 hit points or so. An assault rifle does 7d6 damage. Doubled if it hits you in the torso - which is a normal hit.


One interesting thing is that you only need six-sided dice. The flavor is very vanilla, but that's arguably better than D&D's schizophrenic pseudo-medievalism.

tyckspoon
2008-04-05, 02:11 AM
One interesting thing is that you only need six-sided dice. The flavor is very vanilla, but that's arguably better than D&D's schizophrenic pseudo-medievalism.

This is why GURPS' setting supplements were produced. They're generally well-regarded and help to put together a non-generic world in whatever genre you prefer best.

Deepblue706
2008-04-05, 02:54 AM
So, I'm starting threads today. I've read and looked through the net trying to learn more about GURPS but I still dont quite get the idea of it and since the best way to learn before buying it is to listen to someone with experience in the topic I ask in here hoping to find someone to answer to my plead: What is exactly GURPS? How does the system works? And since the catch of it seems to be it's versatulity: How versatile is it?

Have you tried going to http://forums.sjgames.com? You'll probably get answers a lot faster.

GURPS, in my opinion, is an excellent system. Honestly, I haven't tried many other gaming systems - but it is my favorite, by far. It can support varied styles of play, from your classical fantasy to futuristic space campaigns, even superheroes in a modern-day setting - and making a transition from one genre to another is quite easy.

I wouldn't say GURPS tends to be "realistic", as Yahzi says, but rather less "cinematic" than D&D. For instance, it specifically notes in the rulebook when certain abilities are very "over-the-top", and not necessarily appropriate in all games. Things like this are to be carefully considered by the GM/DM before being implemented - and should the request for the more fantastic stuff be turned down, you will notice the heroes are often not quite as amazing as D&D PCs. However, GURPS is entirely point-based, and the levels of power can be tweaked to any amount the GM deems appropriate...so, your party could actually end up being significantly more powerful than any level of D&D PCs. But, I will note that certain values are encouraged for certain genres, and a "starting adventurer" in GURPS probably won't fit the same bill as one in D&D. It should be noted that some concepts, like HP are much less abstract - it's actually important that you block, parry or dodge an attack, because getting hit is a really bad thing. Especially if someone hits you in a weak-spot (like a military pick to the skull). Yeouch. Yeah, that's right, weapon damage types are very important too.

Also, pretty much everything is skill-based. There are no classes (though a set of skills may be suggested for certain job roles, if you want one). You can completely customize your character, and you don't have to worry about botch-ups in gameplay, because the system is meant to allow you all the things you want, with no extra baggage or clunky levels.

I wish there were more GURPS campaigns around...

SoD
2008-04-05, 03:50 AM
Personally, I'm not a GURPS fan. I much prefur DnD, for all its flaws and unrealisticness. Although, the fact that (as a friend said) only GURPS allows you to play as a ham-and-cheese sandwich.

OzymandiasVolt
2008-04-05, 10:07 AM
Introduce your friend to this post. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=8570529&postcount=31) :D

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-05, 12:20 PM
It's ... detailed.

It's not unnecessarily complicated; it's pretty much just as complicated as the level of detail requires.

Great for hard SF and cyberpunk games, not so much for anything else, in my opinion. (Since genre-specific systems invariably beat out generic systems when you want to play that genre, but with GURPS' focus on detail, the genre is "realistic / gritty", and that's what hard SF and cyberpunk tend to be.)

Epinephrine
2008-04-05, 01:13 PM
I've played dozens of games, and GURPS is still a favorite.

D&D offers some nice simplicity, a lot of heroics, big bangsand all that.

GURPS on the contrary is pretty gritty, unless you use cinematic rules (which it does have) - no matter your "level" - in the case of GURPS, your point value, a sword in the gut is potentially lethal.

The GURPS magic system (the standard one from GURPS fantasy) I find much better than D&D magic at low levels, though much less impressive at high levels (yet in my mind, still much better). Rather than Vance-ian memorization and limited numbers of spells per day, each spell has a fatigue cost, so you can cast until you are too tired to cast, but then it's simply a matter of resting up a bit, so each encounter (provided you aren't on the run) happens with mages able to fully take part. The spell maintainence system and metamagic work well too, and you don't need a ton of spells to get by. Improvised spellcasting is easy, which is nice for those casters who put a lot of points into a type of magic, but need to do something that they don't have a spell for - with 15 animal spells under your belt you'll have a good shot at improvising a new animal spell.

All in all, GURPS is a great system, the main gripes I'd have is the amount of time a combat can take. Once the players know the system I'd insist that the make there decisions fast.

Belteshazzar
2008-04-05, 03:13 PM
The main benefit I have found in Gurps is the ability to be exactly what you want with nothing extra and everything require. Last night we partook in a Hyperdimensional-arena battle royal with participents abducted from across the for thousands of Sufficiently Advanced and truely Arcane species.

Our token female played as a Cutesy 1ft chibi fox with feeble physical scores but godlike Telekinesis and teleportation. I played as a 6ft sapient alien Mantis Shrimp with ranks in pilot: mecha, mechanic T9(basic 20th century tech.) and ranks in sniping (I have 360 hyperspectal vision so why not.) My brother played as gritty, alcoholic Russian anti-Supers Protection Soldier with a force whip in one hand and a pistol in the other (and a kick ass cyber-car with onboard AI and scotch mixer but he got locked out of it.)
Our opponents were some kind of regeneration biotic weapon master (a small red headed boy.) A MiB with a tiny overpowered blaster (we had a power failure when the Russan and his car got ported in and I got to see the Russan accedently run him over). A massive spellslinging roach. Some kind of nuclear mutant who expanded until he exploded. A winged raptor who took a significant chuck out of my shell before I beheaded him with a looted lightsaber. Ohh! and some kind of preying mantis assassin who was beaten to death with the biotic kid's spine being wielded by a Sayien (who was killed by a bolt from the blue in the random extermination round.)

Cainen
2008-04-05, 03:26 PM
Very.GURPS: A hero with the constitution of an Olympic athlete has 18 hit points or so. An assault rifle does 7d6 damage. Doubled if it hits you in the torso - which is a normal hit.

You can put points into HP, but yes, the system can and will kill you very fast.

Rutee
2008-04-05, 03:46 PM
Great for hard SF and cyberpunk games, not so much for anything else, in my opinion. (Since genre-specific systems invariably beat out generic systems when you want to play that genre, but with GURPS' focus on detail, the genre is "realistic / gritty", and that's what hard SF and cyberpunk tend to be.)

Hm, well, it's got some setting/genre-specific books as well.. are you accounting for those? Just curious, not much of a GURPs fan because of what you just mentioned.

Belteshazzar
2008-04-05, 04:09 PM
If you are unaware of an attack then you are very screwed. defenses like dodging are absolutely critical as armor is only DR and won't do much to stop a bullet (guns will mess you up bad). The good news is that you have to be lowered to -5x your health to die or fail a health roll.

Lord_Kimboat
2008-04-05, 04:45 PM
For my money GURPS and the Hero system are very similar. You points buy just about everything, you have a greater degree of customization available for your character and have the ability to do just about anything. On the down side, the rules can get pretty complex with lots of stuff that the DM might want to rule on for game balance and neither system is nearly as well supported as D&D. You'll never find nearly the array of modules, books, etc. Although GURPS does have many more than Hero.

My main difficulty with GURPS is that there are just four stats that the character hangs everything off of. This makes it hard for me to conceptualize a character because at least with six stats I can see a dump stat or a champion stat. In GURPS it all seems to be pretty similar.

Satyr
2008-04-06, 01:32 AM
The great strength of Gurps is the flexibility - it's like the lego of roleplaying games - what ever you want you will find the fitting set of rules and you will be able to create fitting characters. Character creation and its enormous freedom is another great plus.

On the downside, I found Gurps always a bit sterile. Perhaps it's top scientific, but even though the system and the additional setting books are full of great ideas, they are rarely rousing.

You can get the light version of the gurps rules for free: http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004

TheOOB
2008-04-06, 01:47 AM
I'm personally not a huge fan of GURPS. First and foremost, while it is capable of doing most everything, it's isn't really all that good at any one thing. Heroic fantasy is better done with D&D, shadowrun does cyberpunk better, WoD does modern gothic well, 7th Sea does swashbucking, ect, but GURPS really doesn't have anything it specializes in.

I also find the rules to be fairly complex sometimes and and that the rules tend to be fairly specific and unforgiving. Having skills to spend points on for everything I find tends to reduce your ability to flesh out a character, not increase it, and over-all the system seems to think that complexity equals depth, which isn't true(quite the opposite really).

For my money, I prefer true20 by Green Ronin as a "generic" RPG system. The system is pretty good at handling all kinds of situations, everyone who can play D&D allready knows most the rules, and it's really customizable. My only problem is it uses the toughness save mechanic for health, which in my mind is the worst health system I have every seen. Luckily, importing hp from D&D(or anything else) isn't that difficult.

random11
2008-04-06, 02:14 AM
My personal favorite system.

Realistic, relatively simple and you can easily create house rules or find an additional book(s) to fit your campaign.

Two notable flaws I can think of:
- The realism comes at a very high price for present-future campaigns. In most cases, one hit with a gun is all it takes to kill you. Realistic, but not that fun.

- Generic, but not very detailed. So you will need either money to buy extra books or time and talent to make house rules. You won't be able to run a decent campaign only with the basic book.

Coplantor
2008-04-07, 09:22 PM
Wow, thanks, I think I'll give GURPS a chance someday, probably I'll be buying the core book in a couple of months. That russian-mantis.sayan thing was way to crazy...

BardicDuelist
2008-04-07, 09:46 PM
Check out GURPS Lite. It's a free download of the basic rules system (although it should be noted that certain point costs are different).

The most complicated thing about GURPS is the creation of characters and adventures. Once that is done, gameplay is actually rather simple. There isn't a rule for everything, but and explanation of what should be used when.

It has the best combat system that I have ever tried, but is very realistic. Combat is rather deadly.

When you start buying books, get the two core and Martial Arts. Everything else is unnecessary, but Martial Arts does have new rules and will make any game that you want to include combat much simpler. It is also the best researched suppliment I have ever read and does not just include Eastern martial arts.

There is a program that my friend let me borrow that is used to create characters and calculate point costs. I highly reccomend this, as it really simplifies the game as a player.

Jayabalard
2008-04-07, 10:24 PM
I tend to think of GURPS as more of a framework for having a game, than a ruleset. Sure, there are rules in GURPS, but the specifics aren't generally all that important.


On the down side, the rules can get pretty complex with lots of stuff that the DM might want to rule on for game balance and neither system is nearly as well supported as D&D. You'll never find nearly the array of modules, books, etc. Although GURPS does have many more than Hero.There are quite a few books for GURPS, especially If you're willing to use 2nd/3rd edition soruce books (which are fairly compatible and easy to bring up to a newer edition).

You can mix and match to get exactly the sort of game that you want. If you want robot monkey ninjas (martial arts/ultratech/cyberpunk/Bunnies and Burrows) vs magic using pirates with airships (magic/fantasy/swashbuckers/steampunk) vs the horrors that man was not meant to know (Cthullu/Horror/Pulp) you can do that.


GURPS: A hero with the constitution of an Olympic athlete has 18 hit points or so. An assault rifle does 7d6 damage. Doubled if it hits you in the torso - which is a normal hit.Perhaps something changed in 4ed, but guns do crushing damage, not impaling. Crushing damage isn't multiplied on hits to the torso. It's been ages since I've done a game with gunes in it, so I admit that I could be forgetting some specific rule for guns.

Certainly, combat in GURPS is much MUCH more deadly than it is in D&D by default but there are several sets of optional rules for making the game more cinematic. But if you really want a larger than life cinematic game, you might want to go with one of the systems that are specifically designed around that style of play.


One interesting thing is that you only need six-sided dice. The flavor is very vanilla, but that's arguably better than D&D's schizophrenic pseudo-medievalism.I'll agree that the rules are very vanilla, but unless you consider the the game itself to be just the rules, GURPS is far from vanilla.

Kompera
2008-04-07, 10:30 PM
I played GURPS for years, but that was years ago. Things may have changed with new editions. But here's how it was about 10 years ago:

Flexible/Versatile: You can design exactly the character you want. This is more flexible than the D&D stat point-buy systems, it wraps stat point-buy in with every other ability of your character. You pay points for all your stats, your skills, and any advantages and disadvantages you want, such as the ability to cast spells, be immune to poisons, or have a crippling leg injury (negative points apply here). But you can build any character type you can conceive, in whatever genre you're playing in.

Breakable: Stack a stat and you'll be very, very good with any skill based on that stat. Buy an 18 DEX and you're pretty much an Olympic level athlete with all ranged weapons, light melee weapons, and other DEX based skills. And you'll scale better, too, as buying a higher skill level is an exponential progression for the first 5 or so steps. So for a 15 DEX character taking a DEX based skill to 20 is much more expensive than it is for the 18 DEx character.
Breakable also in a way similar to how D&D 3.5 is breakable: Players with higher levels of familiarity with the rules and what are the more optimal choices can min/max their way into positions of superiority very similar to the Monk/Wizard disparity.

Deadly: Others have mentioned this, but it bears repeating. GURPS in any setting with modern or better weapons becomes an exercise in restraint on the part of the GM. Weapons always out pace the ability of armor to mitigate damage, and even the smallest of handguns, not to mention energy weapons in futuristic settings, is capable of killing a player in a single shot. Start talking about M-16s or Laser carbines and a single unlucky hit is a guaranteed kill. GURPS Fantasy is not as bad, but it is still far more realistic then D&D. A high STR opponent can cut a player down in a single round, but the chance to not be hit improves greatly.

SLOW: If you think D&D combat is slow, try to run a GURPS combat and then you'll understand slow. Especially if the players are not very mechanically familiar with the combat rules.

Poorly indexed: The rules book itself is fairly well laid out. But key rules are squirreled away amongst 'sidebars', thin columns of text in the borders of the pages, and it takes a few readings to learn where the sidebars are and which contain vital rules which will need to be referred to often.

As with most role playing games, it is mostly good or bad depending on the setting and the GM, with the players and their attitudes also being just as important as they are in any other RPG.

It can be a fun system, you should give it a try if you've got a few friends willing to play new games for the fun of it.


Edit:
But I'd rather play a game of TORG: The Quick and the Dead than play in another GURPS campaign. :)

Jayabalard
2008-04-07, 10:51 PM
Poorly indexed: The rules book itself is fairly well laid out. But key rules are squirreled away amongst 'sidebars', thin columns of text in the borders of the pages, and it takes a few readings to learn where the sidebars are and which contain vital rules which will need to be referred to often.While I really love the sidebars, I have to agree that it can make it hard to remember where certain rules are.

Ascension
2008-04-08, 12:37 AM
I've noticed that most GURPS threads make a big deal out of character creation, but few say anything about the actual feel of playing it other than "combat is slow."

I'd really like to hear more about the feel. What about social skills? I assume those are handled far better than D&D, but how do they feel?

Cainen
2008-04-08, 12:48 AM
Flexible/Versatile: You can design exactly the character you want. This is more flexible than the D&D stat point-buy systems, it wraps stat point-buy in with every other ability of your character. You pay points for all your stats, your skills, and any advantages and disadvantages you want, such as the ability to cast spells, be immune to poisons, or have a crippling leg injury (negative points apply here). But you can build any character type you can conceive, in whatever genre you're playing in.

Correct, though not so correct about D&D(at least AD&D 2E)'s point-buy. Go read Skills & Powers for 2E; it has an excellent point-buy system.


Breakable: Stack a stat and you'll be very, very good with any skill based on that stat. Buy an 18 DEX and you're pretty much an Olympic level athlete with all ranged weapons, light melee weapons, and other DEX based skills. And you'll scale better, too, as buying a higher skill level is an exponential progression for the first 5 or so steps. So for a 15 DEX character taking a DEX based skill to 20 is much more expensive than it is for the 18 DEx character.

That's correct - given your stipulations. However, there's a problem with your logic - the average GURPS game is 150 points, and 18 DEX is wholly unfeasible under that. 150 points is just below 'fantasy hero' level, and 18 DEX is what epic heroes would have.


Breakable also in a way similar to how D&D 3.5 is breakable: Players with higher levels of familiarity with the rules and what are the more optimal choices can min/max their way into positions of superiority very similar to the Monk/Wizard disparity.

Most don't do that, as it tends to limit them to specifically doing just that, and therefore their ability to do anything outside of that. If someone's specifically gearing themselves to be a combat monster, they won't be able to do much outside of it unless they take some irrelevant skills(I certainly do).


SLOW: If you think D&D combat is slow, try to run a GURPS combat and then you'll understand slow. Especially if the players are not very mechanically familiar with the combat rules.

Actually, it's quite quick, in my experience - there's usually less to resolve in most rounds, and as you said, things in GURPS die fast. A lot of GURPS' combat is idle time between attacks, so you keep an eye on your opponent - that's faster than d20's system, as a lot of it doesn't involve rolling and most players can keep an eye on it.


Poorly indexed: The rules book itself is fairly well laid out. But key rules are squirreled away amongst 'sidebars', thin columns of text in the borders of the pages, and it takes a few readings to learn where the sidebars are and which contain vital rules which will need to be referred to often.

I never noticed poor layout, but that could've been a change since I jumped in on GURPS 4E. It was in the Discworld book, but it didn't have many actual rules in the sidebars - more fluff and irrelevant NPC sheets.

Cybren
2008-04-08, 01:02 AM
Very.

However, it tends to be realistic, not heroic. Consider the following examples:


D&D: A heroic warrior (say, 10th level) has about 100 hit points or so. An assault rifle does 1d12 damage. Tripled on a crit (about 5%).


GURPS: A hero with the constitution of an Olympic athlete has 18 hit points or so. An assault rifle does 7d6 damage. Doubled if it hits you in the torso - which is a normal hit.


One interesting thing is that you only need six-sided dice. The flavor is very vanilla, but that's arguably better than D&D's schizophrenic pseudo-medievalism.
I wouldn't say GURPS tends towards realism, only that it is grounded in it so it can or can not support it. Different campaign requirements can have different levels of realism or not. (also, it's not because it hits the torso that the damage from most rifles is doubled, it's because the damage is "pi+", or "large piercing", which means it better penetrates flesh and thus damage after armor is doubled)
You can put points into HP, but yes, the system can and will kill you very fast.

Which is also somewhat misleading: you don't die until you fail an HT roll or take eleven times your hit points in damage (each full multiple of your hit points requires an HT roll). A good HT score, the Fit or Very Fit advantages, and hard to kill can pretty much mean you succeed on an HT roll 90% of the time. You will survive, effectively, a long ass time.

Titanium Dragon
2008-04-08, 01:48 AM
GURPS is an okay system.

More or less, it is a points-based system; everything is based on points, as other people have described in greater detail.

Strengths:

1) Fairly realistic. (if you see this as a good thing)
2) Fairly simple to play in practice with an experienced GM (though this depends on your points value).

Weaknesses:

1) Realistic. It may claim to be generic and universal, but I don't think it handles a D&D-esque game well at all.
2) Character creation takes absolute ages, ESPECIALLY if you've never made a character before. And by ages, I'm talking hours and hours - I think my first GURPS character took around 6 hours to make (for a 200 pointer), and my second one still took several.
3) Unless you are highly familiar with the system, characters can do things that you really don't know about, or know about well, which can be extremely confusing.

Its an okay system, but I can't really vouch for it.


That's correct - given your stipulations. However, there's a problem with your logic - the average GURPS game is 150 points, and 18 DEX is wholly unfeasible under that. 150 points is just below 'fantasy hero' level, and 18 DEX is what epic heroes would have.

Well, you can certainly hit 18 dexterity - that's only 160 points, and on 150 points you can grab up to 75 points of disadvantages to begin with. On the downside, if you do do so, you are going to have a very high dexterity and not be very good at anything else. A normal human can have up to 20 DEX, according to my understanding of the rules, though anything outside that range would be beyond racial norms.

18 Dexterity also drops in utility depending - in fantasy, it'd be nice, but your strength would be only 10, which is not exactly devastating. Of course, if you're using guns, then your strength doesn't really matter so much...


Which is also somewhat misleading: you don't die until you fail an HT roll or take eleven times your hit points in damage (each full multiple of your hit points requires an HT roll). A good HT score, the Fit or Very Fit advantages, and hard to kill can pretty much mean you succeed on an HT roll 90% of the time. You will survive, effectively, a long ass time.

That's not true.

Here's how it works:

At 0 HP, you have to make a HT roll to stay concious.

At -HP, you have to make a HT roll to stay alive. You have to make additional such rolls at -2xHP, -3xHP, ect. At -5xHP, you're dead automatically. At -10xHP, your body is completely destroyed. Yes, you can take the Immortal trait and die at different values, but at -5xHP you're under all but the most powerful versions of Immortality.

And to give some perspective, one of my fantasy GURPS characters, a centaur, had 17 strength, and thus 17 HP. With an axe, he dealt 3d6+1 cutting damage, IIRC. Cutting means that, after it goes through armor (and with that much damage, it WILL), you multiply whatever remaining damage by 1.5. So if you have DR 3 (basically studded leather), the average hit from my axe will deal about 12 damage - the average human has a 10 in every stat, so even if you have 12 HP, that's still enough to reduce you from full HP to "maybe unconcious". There were several fights which were halfway over from a single hit from my weapon, and if me and the spear wielder in the party both hit you, you were probably pretty close to death.

Baxbart
2008-04-08, 02:55 AM
GURPS is a fantastic system in general, as long as you are aware of your mortality, and don't play like a complete moron. If you jump in front of a bullet to save a friend, you WILL die. Though there are provisions for just about any cinematic doo-dad you want to add to the game, things will get messy fast if the players open up with a semi-automatic in public.

Simply put, GURPS was a generic system built with a focus on roleplaying over combat. The combat system is gritty, (mostly) realistic, and utterly brutal. I cannot keep count of the number of characters I've had killed, mortally wounded or crippled (you will live in fear of GURPS's obscenely detailed hit location rules).

HOWEVER, and I can say this with a certainty as a long time player: - If you are looking for something to just pick up quickly, or to introduce to players who are used to the high-fantasy feel of D&D, this is not the place to start. The players (and the GM) need to be aware of the dangers of combat, and not simply resolve every situation by pulling a gun (or drawing a sword).

Yes, there are bits and pieces that go slowly, but I don't find its a problem any more. I GM'd (namely because my players were too lazy to learn the damn rules) and pretty much memorised the entire advanced system, most of the combat rules, and every single advantage/disadvantage/skill costs. It still whirls around in the back of my mind. Even these days when we are playing and someone else GM's, I am often looked to for rulings because of my encyclopaedic knowledge. Plus, if i couldn't remember something, I could pick up the relevant book and drop it so it would open on the right page, every time.

If you're looking for a system that lets a player actually quantify all those amusing quirks and disadvantages (like having a bad temper, overconfidence, minor delusions etc etc etc) then its great - BUT, if you have a group that is mature and confident enough to roleplay their flaws without the incentive of getting a point-reward for having them... Well, then its really up to you.

I'm not a massive fan of 4th Ed, to be totally honest. I have the two basic books, but I am still very much rooted in 3rd edition. To those of you who said GURPS wasn't well supported, do a bit of research and look back a couple of years to 3rd edition - A rule system which had well in excess of 150 sourcebooks printed. If anything, it was (and still is) no more or less demanding on the wallet than something like D&D. You CAN run a game with just the basic rules some a few houserules, but you probably won't.

Hope thats some help. If you have any further questions I might be able to field them.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-08, 03:36 AM
Part of the key is in the soucebooks. Buy core, then buy the sourcebook or sourcebooks you need for your setting/timeframe. When you want to play a new genre, you only need to buy one or two new books, which have expansions to the relevant rules, and you're good to go. Without the sourcebooks, it's vanilla, with them it's Baskin-Robbins.

Oslecamo
2008-04-08, 07:35 AM
Just to say how impressive some things in games are completely relative.

Some weeks ago, there were lots of people complaining D&D characters died too easily.

Now people are complaining D&D characters take a lot of worck to kill when compared with GURPS.

This atests my theory that no matter how much effort the designers put into a game, there will be always people ranting about something on it(and the oposite also being true, people worshiping certain aspects of the game).

valadil
2008-04-08, 09:12 AM
I'm not a fan of GURPs. I've had a couple good experiences in it, but I attribute those to the GM trimming away a lot of rules.

My main problem with it is that GURPs tries to be adequate at everything but good at nothing. If I were to grade it GURPs would get a C in every genre, whereas D&D would get an A in high fantasy, a B+ in low magic fantasy, and just plain fail elsewhere. If I'm going to play a fantasy game I want D&D. If I'm going for cyperpunk, I want Shadowrun.

The place for GURPs is in genres that don't have their niche game or in games that mix genres. The first time I played GURPs the players were told to make a character in any system. We converted those characters to GURPs and then played a game where everyone came from a different background. I had a D&D wizard. Another player came from shadowrun. GURPs handled the conglomeration nicely (though that particular game had plenty of other flaws).

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-08, 09:25 AM
Amazing no one mentioned this, but...

Ever seen the fluff in a D&D book? Usually, it's sucky, to be very tolerant.

Not so for GURPS. Their fluff is the selling point of splatbooks, and it's absolutely fantastic. The guys at SJG take a lot of time to make amazing books, and your imagination will fly with them. If only for becoming a better DM/GM/whatever, a few GURPS setting books are essential. It's the way to do things.

Cybren
2008-04-08, 09:26 AM
Well, you can certainly hit 18 dexterity - that's only 160 points, and on 150 points you can grab up to 75 points of disadvantages to begin with. On the downside, if you do do so, you are going to have a very high dexterity and not be very good at anything else. A normal human can have up to 20 DEX, according to my understanding of the rules, though anything outside that range would be beyond racial norms.

18 Dexterity also drops in utility depending - in fantasy, it'd be nice, but your strength would be only 10, which is not exactly devastating. Of course, if you're using guns, then your strength doesn't really matter so much...



An 18 dexterity means that you could put one point in a DX based skill and have a skill level of somewhere between 15 and 18.


That's not true.

Here's how it works:

At 0 HP, you have to make a HT roll to stay concious.

At -HP, you have to make a HT roll to stay alive. You have to make additional such rolls at -2xHP, -3xHP, ect. At -5xHP, you're dead automatically. At -10xHP, your body is completely destroyed. Yes, you can take the Immortal trait and die at different values, but at -5xHP you're under all but the most powerful versions of Immortality.

I had made the correction while you were still posting.[/QUOTE]



To the claims of "GURPS doesn't do X genre good", typically giving the example of Dungeons and Dragons, I'd direct you to the many GURPS supplements, in the case of D&D, GURPS Fantasy and, more importantly, GURPS Dungeon Fantasy:
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0303

(and i would, tangentially declare that D&D is not 'high fantasy'. D&D is a specific subset of fantasy mostly existing only in roleplaying games)
Amazing no one mentioned this, but...

Ever seen the fluff in a D&D book? Usually, it's sucky, to be very tolerant.

Not so for GURPS. Their fluff is the selling point of splatbooks, and it's absolutely fantastic. The guys at SJG take a lot of time to make amazing books, and your imagination will fly with them. If only for becoming a better DM/GM/whatever, a few GURPS setting books are essential. It's the way to do things.

I would clarify this by saying that typically fluff in D&D is "okay so this prestige class.. there's like this order of people who are like all this prestige class!", whereas in GURPS the book is detailed on how to work the game into a genre or setting. Unless you have a setting book there won't be much 'fluff' in the sense of information that is there just for color, but there will be things like, in GURPS martial arts a brief history of martial arts in various cultures and bios of influential martial artists from various eras