Dawn of War II: My head just exploded

[warty goblin]

Well, DoWII's existance was confirmed a few days ago, and now we have actual media: http://pc.ign.com/articles/864/864711p1.html

In other news, I think I just died and went to heaven. I mean those screens alone... so pretty...so brutal...so right.

[Rogue 7]

It's times like these that I regret getting a Mac laptop. I haven't played DoW, but I'd love to pick this up. I love 40K.

[Demented]

OOh!
Nice teaser, if short.

Too bad the orc died. =(

[Solo]

Praise the Emperor!




Too bad the orc died. =(

Foul degenerate xenos loving filth! May death soon purge the Imperium of your heretical existence!

[tyckspoon]

The Marine in that clip really shoulda had some sort of witty action-hero quip. It'd cap the tone of that scene perfectly, and it'd annoy the GRIMDARK zealots for extra points. Also, damn that was a huge ork.

[Cainen]

It's times like these that I regret getting a Mac laptop. I haven't played DoW, but I'd love to pick this up. I love 40K.

Boot Camp and a Windows XP disc. Don't expect to play DoWII on it, though; integrated cards are BAD, and can be anywhere from four to five years behind modern graphics cards in terms of game performance.

[Theork]

From those screenshots it looks like the scenary is really good, can't wait to find out when it comes out.
I wonder whether it will be with the first 4 races, while steadily re-releasing the tau, necrons, etc, all over again.

[Jibar]

I was going to start a thread about this after I watched the trailer, except my title was going to be "Dawn of War II: Now You're Just Taking The Piss".
Come ooon. It's pretty damn obvious now that Soulstorm was nothing more than a quickie to keep the fans quiet until they get the sequel, which also shows just why it had so many bugs in it.
Plus, there's a good chance that we won't get Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar in it, and will have to buy another expansion.
And please stop making such damn nice graphics. The better the graphics are, the more it's going to lag in those reeeally big battles.
I'd love to be more dissaproving, but by the Imperium, me and the Space Marines need to cut a most holy swathe through those filthy xenos.

[Haruspex]

The video does not in any way confirm whether the Ork lived or died, so he might have lived. Orks are very tough...:smallwink:

The fact that he's much bigger than a Space Marine means that he's probably an Ork leader or Boss, since leader Orks tend to bulk up more than other Orks for some reason. Also the Space Marine chapter seem to be Blood Ravens again. I wonder what they're up to now?

[Bryn]

...those screenshots... that video... I'm there.

To elaborate, the lighting and scenery, especially in the first screenshot, is pretty much perfect and extremely atmospheric. The city captures the Imperial feel perfectly. Of course, I can't really tell anything about the gameplay yet, but Dawn of War was good enough that I'm happy to look forward to it.

The video was also pretty damn good, although did the Marine truly have to look so... smug after dispatching the Warboss? It seems we'll need to wait for something pre-rendered and thus absolutely, completely amazing as in the original Dawn of War...

In any case, here's hoping for the Imperial Guard being present from the start!


The Marine in that clip really shoulda had some sort of witty action-hero quip. It'd cap the tone of that scene perfectly, and it'd annoy the GRIMDARK zealots for extra points. Also, damn that was a huge ork.

:smallannoyed: Space Marines do not quip. For evidence of why not, see Alien: Resurrection.

[easyname]

I'd love to be more dissaproving, but by the Imperium, me and the Space Marines need to cut a most holy swathe through those filthy xenos.
Me and my Xenos need to cut a most holy swathe through those filthy corpse worshippers.

[lumberofdabeast]

I was going to start a thread about this after I watched the trailer, except my title was going to be "Dawn of War II: Now You're Just Taking The Piss".
Come ooon. It's pretty damn obvious now that Soulstorm was nothing more than a quickie to keep the fans quiet until they get the sequel, which also shows just why it had so many bugs in it.
Plus, there's a good chance that we won't get Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar in it, and will have to buy another expansion.
And please stop making such damn nice graphics. The better the graphics are, the more it's going to lag in those reeeally big battles.
I'd love to be more dissaproving, but by the Imperium, me and the Space Marines need to cut a most holy swathe through those filthy xenos.

Have you considered the possibility that Soulstorm was buggy because it was, in fact, not made by Relic because they were busy with DoW2?

[Jibar]

Have you considered the possibility that Soulstorm was buggy because it was, in fact, not made by Relic because they were busy with DoW2?

In that case there's even less chance of Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar being in it.
My other points still stand though.
This also better be the game where they introduce the Tyrranids. No more cop outs. Genestealers a-go-go baby.

[Ecalsneerg]

My demand is that they force people to refer to it as Dawn of War. Preferably with a gun.

People, if you refer to playing 40K, I will not assume you're playing a video game rather than tabletop.

[/rant] :smallyuk:

Tyranids will be in it or else :smallbiggrin:

[Mc. Lovin']

It's odd they released this so early after Soul Storm

[lumberofdabeast]

It's odd they released this so early after Soul Storm

...It's not coming out until 2009. And it's likely Relic's been working on it since late 2006, when Dark Crusade came out.

[Solo]

Me and my Xenos need to cut a most holy swathe through those filthy corpse worshippers.

Bring it on, scum! You come for our blood, but we shall make sure that you drown in your own!

[Xefas]

This also better be the game where they introduce the Tyrranids. No more cop outs. Genestealers a-go-go baby.

I share your sentiments. If they fail once more to bring me my beloved hive fleets! Well! Well! I'll do...something. I'll mail them a sack of live cockroaches! Yeah...yeah...

Though, really, there are a few things that bode ill for me. For one, I don't want to start over with 4 races, and keep shelling out for more expansions just to get the same races that I had in DoW. I'd prefer the base game cost more, and take longer to make, and have 6 or 7 races playable at the beginning.

Not only is it annoying to have to keep up with the CD keys, but I'm *still* having problems with which expansions I have installed where. With a computer, a laptop, and an external hardrive that I use for various things, installing mods and expansions gets really annoying really fast, and I can't just uninstall it all and reinstall it all, because I can't find all my bloody CD keys!

Additionally, I hope they at least have a super-low graphical setting that I can choose. My computer and laptop both have awful specs for gaming and I don't have the money to be upgrading them. I've gotten to the point where I can play on high graphics on DoW under most circumstances, but my computer literally screams and kicks me in the nuts if I try to use my copy of NWN2.

[Drascin]

I would just like to add to the previously mentioned sentiment - if Tyranids are not in this game, Relic's members will be dissolved and used for spare biomass. You have attempted to keep the Swarm at bay too long, hominids.

[Eita]

Praise the Emperor!

Now then, to go buy some new video cards.

And a faster processor...

[Solo]

Praise the Emperor!

Now then, to go buy some new video cards.

And a faster processor...

May the Machine Spirit be with you.

[Xefas]

May the Machine Spirit be with you.

How does the Machine Spirit feel about Necrons, exactly? I've always wondered this...

I mean, they're machines with spirits in them.

[BRC]

How does the Machine Spirit feel about Necrons, exactly? I've always wondered this...

I mean, they're machines with spirits in them.
I heard from a guy I know that the Omnissiah that the techpriests worship is actually one of the Necron gods
*Figures walk up behind BRC. BRC is never heard from again*

[puppyavenger]

I have one thing to say to Relic
look into the genestealers eyes...
good, now There will be Tyranids
May the living gods come for you brother.

[tyckspoon]

Fact: Fans have been asking for Tyranids since Dawn of War's release date.
Fact: Relic's response has consistently been that they would have to significantly upgrade the engine to properly represent a 'nid swarm.
Fact: Dawn of War 2 will have said upgraded engine.
Supposition: Relic are not morons and have no desire to expose themselves to unnecessary Nerdrage.
Inference: Dawn of War 2 will have Tyranids.
Near certainty: Tyranids will be in DoW2's first expansion pack if they are not in the main release.

[Dragor]

This made my day. Thank you! :smallbiggrin:

But, I swear, if they make us buy new races with expansion packs again, I'll lose my nut. If I have to do all that waiting for Sisters of Battle once more.... :smallyuk:

[Kojiro Kakita]

I heard from a guy I know that the Omnissiah that the techpriests worship is actually one of the Necron gods
*Figures walk up behind BRC. BRC is never heard from again*

We do not know for certain whether the Omnissiah is the Dragon. There are just a good many hints telling us it is. Can we say another Civil War

[Eita]

May the Machine Spirit be with you.

But of cours-

*#%@. Out of incense.

[Daffanka]

[QUOTE=Haruspex;4150760]The fact that he's much bigger than a Space Marine means that he's probably an Ork leader or Boss, since leader Orks tend to bulk up more than other Orks for some reason. /QUOTE]

It´s an orc thing. Whenever one plans to challenge for leadership, it grows muscles as the mind builds up the necessary aggression. Hell, they grow from battling. Or something along the lines, my Orc Codex is just collecting dust.

Anyhow... said new game is look awesome. Even though no self respecting Warlord would allow himself to get pummeled with a Storm Hammer. >:

[Cainen]

Though I'm not honestly that fond of the gameplay, I will relish another chance to WAAAAAAAAAAGH!.

[Rogue 7]

Thunder Hammer. Stormhammer's a type of baneblade.

[Haruspex]

Thunder Hammer. Stormhammer's a type of baneblade.

Funny thing, I actually heard thunder when I watched the teaser vid. Are Thunder Hammers supposed to do that? Make thunder sounds?

[Wraith]

While watching a gibbering swarm of fully-rendered Tyranids devour the scenery as you charge them headlong into the enemy base would be absolutely hilarious I would still have to stand by my old favourites the Eldar as being one of the playable races.

Space Marines, Eldar and Orks are the "Big 3" race in 40k, and it'd be very, very odd if they were not included in the opening version. It's just a matter of who wins 4th place.

Originally it was Chaos because, quite frankly, they were fashionable at the time. Nowadays a lot of GW 'plot' is Necron orientated (mores the pity...) but I wouldn't expect them to be on the first version since by the time DoW2 rolls around, Chaos will have been revamped and Dark Eldar will (allegedly) be next on the list.

More whiney, Emo Space Elves? Or will DoW2 pre-empt the tabletop in order to synchronise with the NEXT new releases, who I personlly expect to be Imperial Guard or Tyranids?

[Haruspex]

That's another thing I was wondering about. What is it about Dark Eldar that makes some people call them emo? According to what I've read they enjoy cutting other people, not themselves.

[Wraith]

I think it's a vague reference to the fact that Dark Eldar also (usually) have pasty, pale skin, dark (black) or otherwise oddly coloured hair, and wear lots of (black) spikes on their torn (black) clothing.

As opposed to Goth, a style that appears similar but can be taken seriously, Emo cannot, and neither can Dark Eldar because of their ridiculously out of date Codex.

Hence: Emo-Space Elves. Possibly. :smallbiggrin:

[an kobold]

I would love for 'nids to make the cut.

Still, as someone pointed out, if there ever were any type of Dark Crusade/Soulstorm combat, it'd be hard to adapt the advantages to the buggers. Forward deployment and the spaceport abilities were derived from a race's ability to use the technology in the sector. Nids, however, don't use technology, they make their own.

Furthermore, think of the lack of variety of missions. Every briefing would go like this:

Primary Objective: OM NOM NOM Space Marines
Secondary Objective: OM NOM NOM Orks
Tertiary Objective: OM NOM

Actually, that sounds pretty fun. . .

[warty goblin]

That's another thing I was wondering about. What is it about Dark Eldar that makes some people call them emo? According to what I've read they enjoy cutting other people, not themselves.

Well, there is that animation from Soulstorm where they capture points by standing around it and then cutting their wrists...

[Rion]

I just hope that they (at least at some point) will include the different Imperial Guard companies, instead of just the Cadians.

[tyckspoon]

Differing Guard regiments have got to be really low priority, assuming they would all play as the same army anyway.. on the other hand, since they would all play as the same army, they'd only have to do some model swaps for infantry units, which might be feasible as a gift to Guard players or as somebody's side project.

[Cainen]

Well, there is that animation from Soulstorm where they capture points by standing around it and then cutting their wrists...

Soulstorm had SPESS MEHREENS, METAL BOXES, and all kinds of ridiculous things.

I think that's the least of their problems.

[Wraith]

Still, as someone pointed out, if there ever were any type of Dark Crusade/Soulstorm combat, it'd be hard to adapt the advantages to the buggers. Forward deployment and the spaceport abilities were derived from a race's ability to use the technology in the sector. Nids, however, don't use technology, they make their own.

"Having devoured the brain of the previous Forward Base commander and absorbed all the intelligence within unto the Hive Mind, the latest Tyranid evolution creates vast chimneys which send dozens of spores into the atmosphere. There they grow to adult hood before crashing back to the Planet, organic re-entry pods which seed the surface with alien biomass that quickly begins to grow and spread across the landscape in preparation for the advancing horde...."

With enough fluff, you can explain anything :smallbiggrin:

[Neon Knight]

Soulstorm had SPESS MEHREENS, METAL BOXES, and all kinds of ridiculous things.

I think that's the least of their problems.

Mr. Cainen, could you please elaborate as to what precisely you mean by this remark?

[BRC]

I just hope that they (at least at some point) will include the different Imperial Guard companies, instead of just the Cadians.
What I think they should do is provide the models for different guard regiments, then let people make them as mods.

[an kobold]

Soulstorm had SPESS MEHREENS, METAL BOXES, and all kinds of ridiculous things.

I think that's the least of their problems.

SINDRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

[Cainen]

Mr. Cainen, could you please elaborate as to what precisely you mean by this remark?

Did you ever listen to Boreale's hilarious accent? I couldn't stop laughing once he said "THE EMPRA". That's ignoring the METAL BOXES part from Carron, and SINDRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

[Neon Knight]

Oh, the dialog. Yes, that was pretty dang bad. I got the game last night at 10 and for the majority of the time I was playing had to keep the volume at a minimum since I lacked headphones and everyone else was sleeping. I still heard it but didn't get the full horrible effect.

[ArtifexFelicis]

Dear god that is awesome.

I'm just hoping the Tau'll be in this game as well. They so snuggly and kyoot and awesome.

Well, that and frankly they were a fairly solid race. They got just about everything down, balance was what was needed. And maybe having the Greater Knarlac made moar better, like being able to attract all attention to it and destroying all morale because it's a HUGE DINOSAUR!

Still, would be rather awesome for that. Tyranids versus Tau. Weee. It sounds so much fun I can't believe it! Maybe have the gun drones not suck, and the markerlights be able to provide info on units after a while

Still, this should be awesome.

*Imagines markerlighting a 'nid commander unit, he runs back to base like a pansy, missiles home in on the base and on the commander*

[Semidi]

Space Marines and Orks are given. They're in the teaser and screen shots. I'm going to include Chaos and Eldar is extremely likely as Eldar are one of the main guys, and Choas are easy to make as they're just Space Marines with a few horns and some demons.

The Dev team needs to include Tyranids or else there will be mass internet lynchings.

I don't think Dark Eldar or Sisters will make it in because, honestly, who really cares THAT much.

Tau, Necrons, and Imperial Guard could go either way.

[Xefas]

I was discussing Tyranids as a race with one of my friends today and the question of voice-overs came up. He asked something like "What would they say when you encounter other races and stuff like that?"

And then I got this idea. Of course the Tyranids wouldn't say anything! They'd just be chittering and gnashing their teeth and what-not. The encounter-voices would be of the OTHER races.

It would be quite hilarious to hear the main units of every race run screaming away.

Fire Warrior: "Shas'O, the advance scouts have detected...Tyranids...in the area"
Commander: "I see....BACK INTO THE DROPSHIPS! FOR THE GREATER GOOD!"
*miscellaneous Tau screaming starts in the background*

[Hermit]

My subscription copy of PCG UK came this morning with their article on DoWII, and I must say so far it looks and sounds fantastic. Don't think the article covered anything we don't already know; base building is largely gone in favour of a more CoH style tactical affair with every building both garrisonable and destoryable, and with the focus being on effective and careful use of squads. The implementation of CoH's physics and cover system both look absolutely awesome, and the Co-op campaign option is a nice addition too. The article is no doubt based off the same demo footage other mags have seen, with a few squads of Space Marines working to clear out an ork infestation in a ruined city.

Its looking so damn pretty as well. Really hoping for an even more in-depth army painter this time round, too, given that to me it seems they're looking to move DoWII closer to the tabletop game.

Also very much looking forward to finding out which races are in. I'd like to think Tyranids are a given; it'd be the perfect way to really set DoWII apart from Soulstorm, an OK expansion pack but by no means up to DoW's usual standard; if anything, it shows the age of the game, sadly. I doubt we'll see more than 4 or 6 races in at first though, I suspect others will return in expansions.

[lumberofdabeast]

SINDRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

OH YEAH!

...wait, wrong forum.

[Talkkno]

Fire Warrior: "Shas'O, the advance scouts have detected...Tyranids...in the area"
Commander: "I see....BACK INTO THE DROPSHIPS! FOR THE GREATER GOOD!"
*miscellaneous Tau screaming starts in the background*
Hey, the Tau managed to take out a entire Tyranid splinter hive fleet without losing a single ship, and the Nid's didn't even get a chance to get on the planet. Compared to craftworld Iywhetewn(Sp?) lost 3/4th its pouplation fighting off a Tyranid splinter hive fleet.

[Albub]

That's just so that all the Tau players can get big Mr. Stiffly's and high five eachother over how awesome their race is. Trust me, I want to be a doctor.

[Bryn]

Hey, the Tau managed to take out a entire Tyranid splinter hive fleet without losing a single ship[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CITE)], and the Nid's didn't even get a chance to get on the planet. Compared to craftworld Iywhetewn(Sp?) lost 3/4th its pouplation fighting off a Tyranid splinter hive fleet.

...that's the first I've heard of this Tau victory. The Tau defeating a splinter fleet is certainly plausible, but there would have to be some pretty strange circumstances for them to take no casualties. I might've just missed it, of course, since I lack both the relevant codices, but it would be good to know when this happened to expand my knowledge of 40k history.

There are no details of this conflict in the Battlefleet Gothic rules, Apocalypse, Imperial Armour 4 or the GW site.

[SolkaTruesilver]

...that's the first I've heard of this Tau victory. The Tau defeating a splinter fleet is certainly plausible, but there would have to be some pretty strange circumstances for them to take no casualties. I might've just missed it, of course, since I lack both the relevant codices, but it would be good to know when this happened to expand my knowledge of 40k history.

There are no details of this conflict in the Battlefleet Gothic rules, Apocalypse, Imperial Armour 4 or the GW site.

Well, I would like to know if the Tau victory was part of either a general campaign, with matches where we count the points, or simply fluff-wise victory?

(can someone tell me how a Tau Vs Tyranid match up during a true game?)

If it was a fluff-victory (in a book, for example), then I have no difficulty. The Tau are supposed to be awesome strategists, and use a pretty efficient technology, and they usually consider every of their soldiers important.

The complete opposite of the Tyranid mentality. I guess it all ends up who's leading them.

(and the Tau are pretty much united, as opposed to the Imperium)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Also, Splinter Fleet is a pretty unspecific term. They aren't all the same size. Splinter Fleet just means "smaller than the huge Hive Fleets that entered the Galaxy". A Splinter Fleet could be anything from 49% to 1% of the size of the original Hive Fleet.

[Hunter Noventa]

Primary Objective: OM NOM NOM Space Marines
Secondary Objective: OM NOM NOM Orks
Tertiary Objective: OM NOM


That's hilarious. It made me laugh out loud at work. Also, all multiplayer chat with non-nid players would just be a series of noms.

[Wraith]

(can someone tell me how a Tau Vs Tyranid match up during a true game?)

Using slightly more generalisation than I strictly should...

Tau have 2 things: REALLY big guns, and ridiculously complicated armour.
Tyranids have 2 things: LOTS of teeth, and lots of friends.

By and large, Tyranids run forward en masse and get shot to pieces. Just one of them makes it into melee however, and a dozen Tau meet hideous, orifice-invading death.

In theory, if anyone is going to get a bloodless victory against Tyranids, it'd be a Tau Commander who loaded up on even more guns than usual and picked his targets REALLY well - namely, anything that stood within a mile of a horizon that they can see. Having said that, Tau are at the biggest risk of taking more casualties than most other armies, as there are very few creatures in the universe that are worse in close combat than the average Fire Warrior.

This is, of course, ignoring Tau allies (Kroot, for example) and Tyranid special units (like Ravagers), all of which go some way to readdressing the balance. Roughly speaking, fluff-wise, Tau would probably reduce the Tyranids to sludge with their artillery but ONE false move and the whole lot of them would be Gaunt-chow in seconds.

[Talkkno]

...that's the first I've heard of this Tau victory. The Tau defeating a splinter fleet is certainly plausible, but there would have to be some pretty strange circumstances for them to take no casualties. I might've just missed it, of course, since I lack both the relevant codices, but it would be good to know when this happened to expand my knowledge of 40k history.

There are no details of this conflict in the Battlefleet Gothic rules, Apocalypse, Imperial Armour 4 or the GW site.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Talkkno]

Also, Splinter Fleet is a pretty unspecific term. They aren't all the same size. Splinter Fleet just means "smaller than the huge Hive Fleets that entered the Galaxy". A Splinter Fleet could be anything from 49% to 1% of the size of the original Hive Fleet.

Even so, thats still at least thousands of vessels, given the original fleet size was something in the range of 5 million ships, granted Tyranid ships are alot crappier then everyone's elses...but they got sheer numbers there.

[Rogue 7]

Shadowsun's entry in the Tau codex- page 46. It's stated that she led raids into the enemy fleet that disrupted the hive's control over its subordinates, leading to an easy victory. Probably the equivalent to winning one battle and wiping out the enemy, and it was probably a fairly small splinter fleet, but it's still impressive.

[Albub]

If you consider how little tyranid ships are points-wise, the hive fleet still probably won in victory points.

[Cuddly]

Looks pretty, but Relic has continuously disappointed me with their controls. They code too much crappy AI.

When I'm play CoH, I want my ****ing grunts to charge goddammit! Not sneak around bushes and crap.

I think Starcraft 2 is going to blow this one out of the water.

[warty goblin]

Looks pretty, but Relic has continuously disappointed me with their controls. They code too much crappy AI.

When I'm play CoH, I want my ****ing grunts to charge goddammit! Not sneak around bushes and crap.

I think Starcraft 2 is going to blow this one out of the water.

Wait, you think CoH has bad AI? That's a...first, given that pretty much every opinion of the AI I've ever read up to now has pointed out just how good it is, particularly at staying alive and not acting like suicidal morons.

[Cuddly]

Wait, you think CoH has bad AI? That's a...first, given that pretty much every opinion of the AI I've ever read up to now has pointed out just how good it is, particularly at staying alive and not acting like suicidal morons.

I hate when my units don't do what I tell them to do. When I play with my roommates, we're always shouting at our idiot units "TO MOVE, ****ING MOVE YOU STUPID ****S!!!" and "AAAAARGH!!!".

Also, I cannot stand the squad based control. Makes micro horrible. I get these units that are composed of smaller units, that don't follow my orders. Half the squad does it's own thing. This wouldn't be so bad, if replacing units wasn't costly and squad management so damned micro intensive. It's like buying 6 units for the price of one, but half the squad doesn't do anything effective, and the other half of the squad doesn't follow orders.

Sure, it may be realistic, but it's not fun. It does not enhance my fun. I like strategy games that don't leave so much up to luck. DoW:40k left a crapton up to luck. Sometimes the avatar of cane would hit stuff, sometimes he'd show off how cool he was by flourishing his blade as he was mobbed by orcz. I'd like more static DPS from my units, thanks.

Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful theoretical model of gameplay. But in practice, it really leaves something wanting.

[Oslecamo]

Why do people want the Tyranid so badly?

In my opinion, the reason they still didn't apear in the computer game it's because indeed they don't fit in DoW gamestyle.

First, most of tyrannid units are either pure melee or pure range. All the other races have a basic infantry unit wich can shoot and bash heads decently, maybe specialized more on one of the two things, but still able to do both to an extent. So a starter tyrannid unit would either be such a melee monster it wouldn't give a chance to the other player or be owned by hit and run tactics, aka dancing, a very popular strategy in DoW.

Tyrannids don't have mechanic units. This reduces a lot of the strategy involved, as the oponent will simply invest into anti infantry units and weaponry, since the Tyrannids can't throw vehicles at them.


So, for Tyrannids to worck in a balanced way in Dow, you would need to completely reflavor them from the tabletop game.

But as someone else said, then there's beatifull starcraft, where despite only being 3 races, each one of them is completely unique and worcks on it's own way while keeping balance.

[Zorg]

First, most of tyrannid units are either pure melee or pure range. All the other races have a basic infantry unit wich can shoot and bash heads decently, maybe specialized more on one of the two things, but still able to do both to an extent. So a starter tyrannid unit would either be such a melee monster it wouldn't give a chance to the other player or be owned by hit and run tactics, aka dancing, a very popular strategy in DoW.

Zerglings from Starcraft are a pretty good analogue to Termagaunts and Hormagaunts, also the Protoss' base infantry unit was HtH only. Just make the gaunt the base Tyranid unit and give the initial option to build Horms or Terms, and let the player choose how much a mix of each to go.


Tyrannids don't have mechanic units. This reduces a lot of the strategy involved, as the oponent will simply invest into anti infantry units and weaponry, since the Tyrannids can't throw vehicles at them.

Tyranids have the Carnifex (lots of variants), Hive Tyrants, Heirodules (barbed and scything), Trigons and Zoanthropes (not to mention the Heirophant) all of which can take a beating and really dish one out (both at range and close depending on how equipped).

[Jibar]

Roughly speaking, fluff-wise, Tau would probably reduce the Tyranids to sludge with their artillery but ONE false move and the whole lot of them would be Gaunt-chow in seconds.

Wouldn't it be awesome if that happened in game?
Seriously, you make one false move and you suddenly get swarmed.


Why do people want the Tyranid so badly?

They're cool.


First, most of tyrannid units are either pure melee or pure range. All the other races have a basic infantry unit wich can shoot and bash heads decently, maybe specialized more on one of the two things, but still able to do both to an extent. So a starter tyrannid unit would either be such a melee monster it wouldn't give a chance to the other player or be owned by hit and run tactics, aka dancing, a very popular strategy in DoW.

And? It just means people will have to think of different tactics. A totally different game experience.


Tyrannids don't have mechanic units. This reduces a lot of the strategy involved, as the oponent will simply invest into anti infantry units and weaponry, since the Tyrannids can't throw vehicles at them.

They've got tons of big monsters. Just make them count as vehicles for game mechanics. Easy.


But as someone else said, then there's beatifull starcraft, where despite only being 3 races, each one of them is completely unique and worcks on it's own way while keeping balance.

For someone who's in favour of unique, you sure seem keen of making Tyranids the same as everybody else. :smallwink:

[Albub]

I'm pretty sure imperial guradsmen screw the proverbial pooch in CC in tabletop 40k, and they somehow manage to do just fine in large numbers in DoW. They could probably fudge it a little for the sake of gameplay if people wanted the tyranids to have a starting unit that's similar to that of other races, which they don't necessarily.

[Oslecamo]

Zerglings from Starcraft are a pretty good analogue to Termagaunts and Hormagaunts, also the Protoss' base infantry unit was HtH only. Just make the gaunt the base Tyranid unit and give the initial option to build Horms or Terms, and let the player choose how much a mix of each to go.


In starcraft you can't walck and shoot at the same time. This makes all the diference. A terran marine can shoot at distance, but if he does so the zealot/zergling will reach him and tear him to shreds.

In Dow you can run and shoot at the same time, wich allows the ranged units to keep out of distance while shooting at the melee units. Thus, melee units also get ranged weapons in DoW, altough less effecient, wich means the ranged focused troops can't just keep running from the melee focused units whitout taking some damage.

Jibar:you got it right. Relic is afraid to make big changes to the game. There are 9 races, and they're basicaly copies of each other with some stats and special powers change between them. In order for the Tyrannids to join the fray, you would need to change everything else.

Also don't you hear yourself? You want the Tyrannid player to be able to throw units at the enemy untill he does one mistake and then easily swarm him over. How is that balanced?

[Xefas]

Wait, what's all this about the starting unit not having melee and ranged? Termagaunts get several kinds of guns that they can wield in their front claws, and an entirely different set of claws behind those that they can use for melee.

Just start them with fleshborers and let them upgrade with better weapons from there.

[Jibar]

Also don't you hear yourself? You want the Tyrannid player to be able to throw units at the enemy untill he does one mistake and then easily swarm him over. How is that balanced?

I've never been a big believer in the concept of balance.
Probably because I'm a strictly offline player, but I prefer to go for " each as ruddy cool as we can make it" than "each perfectly suited to be able to deal effectively with each other"
Besides, I'd love see all the different ways Tyrannid players could find to make that one mistake. Testing opponents with small ripper swarms, leading forces into pincer movements, distracting them with a Carnifex while a couple dozen gaunts charge in from behind.
That would be so coooool.

[Zorg]

In Dow you can run and shoot at the same time, wich allows the ranged units to keep out of distance while shooting at the melee units. Thus, melee units also get ranged weapons in DoW, altough less effecient, wich means the ranged focused troops can't just keep running from the melee focused units whitout taking some damage.

Make the Tyranids faster so running only slows the inevitable. Also see my point about the different types of gaunts in conjunction with each other.

I do agree that each race needs to be unique in more ways than cap building and resource collecting.

[puppyavenger]

Even so, thats still at least thousands of vessels, given the original fleet size was something in the range of 5 million ships, granted Tyranid ships are alot crappier then everyone's elses...but they got sheer numbers there.

IIRC, doesn't it say in the 'nid codex that splinter fleets go from half a dozen hiveships( splinter of defeated kraken tendrils) to a few hundred (undefeated kraken tendrels) also, 'nid ships have giant crab claws that can crush the other ships hull, and mind-flayeresque tentacle for boarding action. so they're the only fleet withg a close combat phase.