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Gorbash
2008-04-05, 07:37 PM
I need advice on this on from more experienced DMs. I'll be the DM in the upcoming Savage Tide adventure path in my gaming group. Initially, there was supposed to be 4 players, which is the norm, but know there is a chance (actually my decision) that there will be 6. If there's 6 players then I get to play in the Shackled City adventure path, so you see my dilema here... I'm just not so sure I can manage that number (this being my first DMing experience), so I'd like to hear opinions. Bear in mind that this is pregenerated adventure, so it's written for 4 players, but has conversion notes for more, although I'm not sure if it's balanced and if I'll be able to handle it if at some point they get too powerful.
And I don't like the 6th player very much.

Some advice please!

Zincorium
2008-04-05, 07:44 PM
Having more than 6 players is certainly doable- but they all need to be more patient and mature to realize the same ease of play. Players who hog the spotlight aren't so bad until you realize that half of the players are splitting less than 20% of the time.

If you seriously don't like someone as a person, that's an issue. Talk to some of the other players about it, then talk to that person. Asking some of their friends to help keep them civil is the best course of action, you don't want to be the aggressor socially if they're buddies with the rest of the group. If you play a few games and it just is not working out at all, it'll be easier to deal with it if you have tried to bridge the gap.

TempusCCK
2008-04-05, 07:48 PM
We have anywhere from 7 to 8 players at our table each night, it's a bit clumsy, but it really get's upsetting when everyone is talking during other peoples turns.

My suggestion, make sure you control your group, keep them civil and attentive and don't let them break up into different groups, a little railroading is all right for the sake of keeping the game going.

Gorbash
2008-04-05, 08:12 PM
I didn't mean more than 6, I meant exactly 6. I need your experiences with that number, does it slow the game much, is it too hard to organize a session for 7 people etc... The problem I have with this 6th person is that he basically doesn't do ANYTHING outside of combat...

SilverClawShift
2008-04-05, 08:13 PM
Our group tried moving from 5 players to 6, but it was a little much for us. Things slowed down enough that the sessions would occasionaly drag, planning for the adventures was harder on our DM, and planning on the groups composition itself got a little painful.

It sucked, because the newest player really loved the groups playstyle. It wound up working out because one of our existing players didn't have enough time to meet up with the group as much, so he's become an occasional addition coming in to do NPCs (allies or for the DM) from time to time.

But some groups seem to not have a problem with 6, or even 7 or 8. Good luck, hopefully you'll be one of those groups.

Gorbash
2008-04-05, 08:32 PM
Our group tried moving from 5 players to 6, but it was a little much for us. Things slowed down enough that the sessions would occasionaly drag, planning for the adventures was harder on our DM, and planning on the groups composition itself got a little painful.

That wouldn't be much of an issue... Because in this group, such as it is now (5 of them), 3 are quite effective both roleplaying wise and combat wise (as in don't drag on their turns etc), but those other two... One player is DM's girlfriend (blaster sorcerer who up to 8th level didn't suffer a point of damage) and the other guy is barbarian/cleric (don't ask) and 2 don't exist out of combat, and when the rest is roleplaying they are talking about stuff that doesn't have anything to do with ongoing session. So, basically they ignore them, 3 of them have fun, so I'd get along with them, I'm just not sure if I would be comfortable enough playing with 6 players, so I need some info are campaigns with 6 players THAT different from those with 4 or 5...

Treguard
2008-04-05, 08:41 PM
Our group has always been six players, and beyond chatter, there have been no problems, so it's not all bad. Beyond spacing, logistics and other trivialities, as long as the DM is sensible and knows his/her players well it should be all gravy.

Sleet
2008-04-05, 08:55 PM
Lean on your players, they're your greatest resource.

It might be helpful to assign "assistant DM" duties to one or two of the more experienced players. Have them help you out by looking up rules, spell effects, etc. ahead of time, both for you and for the less experienced players.

If they're good roleplayers, even letting them in on a bit of player knowledge their characters wouldn't have isn't a bad idea. Imagine you might plan to have your troll Bull Rush one of the PCs on its round, but can't remember how it works. When it's still Fred's turn, ask Bill to look up the Bull Rush rules while you adjudicate Fred's turn. Similarly, he can look up spells, feats, etc. while you adjudicate for other players - if Bill is a good roleplayer, he won't use that to his advantage.

cupkeyk
2008-04-05, 08:58 PM
The larger the group, the harder the drinks you need to serve. Beer is okay for a group of four but a larger group of six needs gin or vodka. This gets the unnecessary chitter chatter out of the way. being drunk will kill the full attack charge character's pouncing barbarian and the talkative ones will just stare at their minis. Then the original four players can continue gaming.

Gorbash
2008-04-05, 09:07 PM
Lean on your players, they're your greatest resource.

It might be helpful to assign "assistant DM" duties to one or two of the more experienced players. Have them help you out by looking up rules, spell effects, etc. ahead of time, both for you and for the less experienced players.

If they're good roleplayers, even letting them in on a bit of player knowledge their characters wouldn't have isn't a bad idea. Imagine you might plan to have your troll Bull Rush one of the PCs on its round, but can't remember how it works. When it's still Fred's turn, ask Bill to look up the Bull Rush rules while you adjudicate Fred's turn. Similarly, he can look up spells, feats, etc. while you adjudicate for other players - if Bill is a good roleplayer, he won't use that to his advantage.

Rules aren't the problem... I know 90% of the rules by heart (all the common ones), the trouble I expect if someone's taking too long while it's their turn. That can get in the way when there's 6 of them. Maybe time their turns?

But I will definetly assign someone to calculate the initiative order or something similar, that's a great advice.

cupkeyk
2008-04-05, 09:11 PM
We have a one minute time limit to deciding what do on our turns. Everyone is expected to have flash cards of stuff they will reuse like tob maneuvers and spells not from phb or spell compendium, or monsters that you will summon recurringly.

Gorbash
2008-04-05, 09:21 PM
Does that really shortens the time of combat rounds? When I play, I don't really think about it that much so I don't actually know how much time is spent on each individual round, but now when I'm supposed to be a DM, I want to maximize the time spent playing, but one minute seems a bit too much...

Ellisande
2008-04-05, 09:27 PM
The problem I have with this 6th person is that he basically doesn't do ANYTHING outside of combat...

Is he happy not doing anything outside of combat? If so, what's the problem? Sure, encourage him to roleplay his character, but if he enjoys playing this way, it seems like an advantage for you, the GM.

That is to say, the primary concern with 6 players is to keep the game moving, and to give everyone enough attention. If this player is happy just to follow along and then join in during the fights... that's just making your life easier, and allowing you to lavish attention on the players that do want to roleplay outside combat. It seems like it would minimize the problems that a larger group face.

A different gaming style than some of us? Certainly. But I was worried it was a personality clash, or something else that can cause severe problems.


Have confidence. From your posts so far, it sounds to me like you've got the situation pretty much in hand.

AslanCross
2008-04-05, 09:28 PM
It's doable. My current campaign started out with six players, and it was my first time to DM. The first adventure took forever since we only had an hour and a half of play each week (often less due to latecomers), but eventually one of the players had to leave (unfortunately she had the most interesting character).

I had to keep reminding the players to think out their turns in advance so that they wouldn't have to spend 5 minutes each turn thinking what to do. A time limit would be good.

I just hope that your party doesn't have six casters who don't know what their spells do. I find this the most time-consuming problem I've run into. Players don't know what all their spells do, and so we have to look it up either in d20srd (thank God for wireless Internet connections) or in the books. The same has been true for Martial adepts as well. Our ranger and rogue recently multiclassed as Swordsages, and they're still a bit unfamiliar with the specific mechanics of maneuvers. Especially the Setting Sun ones.

I'm sure experienced players would be a more manageable 6-man party, though.

cupkeyk
2008-04-05, 09:32 PM
Yes it does, stating it can take longer than a minute but the uhm, read through character sheet look through books stage cannot exceed one minute.

The cards work very well. Since it allows referencing material without looking up which book, which page. Just shuffle through your cards.

Squash Monster
2008-04-05, 10:02 PM
I had six players in my group for a long time. It's not too hard, except for the speed. Eventually I imposed a fifteen second time limit on deciding what to do with your turn. The actual turn can take longer, but if you haven't said what you're doing yet, your character stands around doing nothing.

kjones
2008-04-05, 10:28 PM
I run two groups, each with six people. Six is a good number, you get a lot of good group dynamics, but each group has one or two people who tend not to pay much attention out of combat... Be careful if you have a single person who tends to dominate group discussion. One of the groups actually nominated one player (the quietest one) to serve as "moderator" during group discussions because things could get heated. So you might need to impose restrictions like this, but hopefully it won't be necessary.

The real advantage to larger groups is more flexibility in party roles. With the four-man band, you need the traditional four of Fighter, Thief, Cleric, Mage (or something similar that fills the same four roles.) With six, there's more room for support classes like Bard. (One party has Warlock, Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Bard - four Charisma-based casters! Then a Swordsage and a Warblade. There's some overlap, but they cover all the bases between them.) So encourage party diversity.

Fiery Diamond
2008-04-06, 12:39 AM
I run a group for 6 people (and will most likely be adding a seventh soon). It isn't hard to get times set up when everyone can meet if you use the same time every week. (assuming you meet once a week. Basically, have a standard time that only gets changed if circumstances demand it.) Have people make room in their schedules for the game and plan things around it, rather than trying to make room for it at the last minute.

Yes, six people slows down combat. Yes, it sometimes slows down out-of-combat interactions, especially if different characters want to simultaneously head to the opposite ends of the city. It's worth it. It does not make things harder, even though things slow down. It can take some getting used to.

I've never played with a pregenerated setting/campaign before, so I don't know how that would work, but remember that for combat you're probably going to want to up the encounter level challenge for most of the encounters. The party I have currently has 8 members- 6PCs, 1 cohort, 1 NPC. I use stuff ECL = party level +2.

The person who doesn't do anything outside of combat- encourage him to do so, but not forcefully. It took several months before one of my players really role-played outside of combat. Don't let it bother you, as long as it doesn't bother anyone else.

-Fiery Diamond

crimson77
2008-04-06, 02:06 AM
We have a one minute time limit to deciding what do on our turns.

I have played with a group that used one of those one-minute sand timers from other board games. Each player gets 1-min to make a decision of what to do during that combat round. If they cannot make up their mind then their character is acting defensively. Players do not like their characters to not be acting so they stopped talking during other peoples turns and would prepare for theirs.

Additionally, for non-combat interactions try not to let the group split up too much. If this happens put a 5 minute cap on each players actions to allow you to get to everyone and not leave a bored player.

FlyMolo
2008-04-06, 03:34 AM
I need advice on this on from more experienced DMs. I'll be the DM in the upcoming Savage Tide adventure path in my gaming group. Initially, there was supposed to be 4 players, which is the norm, but know there is a chance (actually my decision) that there will be 6. If there's 6 players then I get to play in the Shackled City adventure path, so you see my dilema here... I'm just not so sure I can manage that number (this being my first DMing experience), so I'd like to hear opinions. Bear in mind that this is pregenerated adventure, so it's written for 4 players, but has conversion notes for more, although I'm not sure if it's balanced and if I'll be able to handle it if at some point they get too powerful.
And I don't like the 6th player very much.

Some advice please!

I had 10 players in my PbP group(one got squashed by an airship/had personality conflicts with the entire rest of the group). Thing is, barring people who don't check the threads, more players in a PbP group doesn't slow stuff down much. It makes my life more difficult, and takes an extra minute or two to update a combat round, but who-whee. It takes me almost 1 and half hours to do a combat round in PbP. But that's initiative, rolls, resolutions, notes on monster damage, updating, saving, uploading and posting the tactical map. But I only have to do it every few days.

Gorbash
2008-04-06, 05:30 AM
Well then, the decision has been made. I will do it! I have reached an optimal solution. I will be the DM for those 6 players, and I will join their Shackled City campaign, once my Red Hand of Doom campaign is done (in which I play Gnome Wizard/Earth Dreamer (batman), you might have read about him on some topics on the board) so I will be able to play with my favourite character in Shackled City (that gnome), the only problem is I will miss out for 2 more adventure parts in Shackled City, but hey that's the price of playing with that particular characters... Thanks everyone for wonderful advice. :)