Hair + Enslavement = ?

[TorJin]

I'm curious...why are all the slaves bald or balding?

[lemonhoney]

That's what I was wondering... at first I chalked it off to being that Rich was being lazy, but I don't think that's the case at all.

...Which means there's probably another reason. Any (logical) guesses?

[Theodoriph]

Hair = Lice (and other hygiene problems)

It also strips them of their individuality.

Why beards and horseshoes are allowed...no clue :P

[hylian chozo]

Deteriorating health?

[FoE]

Hair = Lice (and other hygiene problems)

It also strips them of their individuality.

Get out of my brain, you bastard!

... Just kidding. But yeah, if you have prisoners living in squalid conditions, chances are they're going to get lice (plus a host of other horrific diseases). Not good.

Also, there's the whole punishment aspect.


The practice of head shaving has often been used to punish people, such as criminals or political opponents. Especially for women, the act of shaving off an offender's hair serves to humiliate the victim and remind them of their offense.

[Rumda]

well I would say it was due to the fact that all male gobos are bald but then looking at the slaves in the tower there are three slaves with hair and only one is female so there not all bald

[snoopy13a]

The hobgoblins probably shave their heads as a mark of slavery. The one balding guy was likely overlooked as he didn't have much hair anyway.

[TheElfLord]

To take away their superhuman strength.

[Estelindis]

To take away their superhuman strength.
:smallcool: You, sir, win the internet. :smallbiggrin:

[Callista]

Wouldn't work nearly as well nowadays. Give a girl a buzz cut, and she's more likely to say, "Huh... that looks weird. But I think I could get used to it."

That's what I said the first time I tried it. Now my hair rarely grows past about two inches.

[TorJin]

Wouldn't work nearly as well nowadays. Give a girl a buzz cut, and she's more likely to say, "Huh... that looks weird. But I think I could get used to it."

That's what I said the first time I tried it. Now my hair rarely grows past about two inches.

I have noticed a trend where girls tend to have significantly shorter hair than mine, and mine is not all that long. Is this just a local phenomenon, or is it just one of those new trend type things?

[Halvormerlinaky]

:smallcool: You, sir, win the internet. :smallbiggrin:

Aye, an ale for ye, laddy.

[Phase]

Well, you have to remember, most of the prisoners are soldiers left behind. As is seen in Daigo D. Male soldiers are almost bald in the first place, soooo…

[paladinofshojo]

The Nazi's used hair of shaved Jewish people in Aushwitz to make uniforms, maybe Redcloak is probably doing the same disgusting act of efficiency and total domination over the conquered people.:smallfrown:

[Callista]

Well, just find us a picture of a female slave, and we'll see whether that's so. The female soldiers tended to have chin-length hair, remember?

[Szilard]

The Nazi's used hair of shaved Jewish people in Aushwitz to make uniforms, maybe Redcloak is probably doing the same disgusting act of efficiency and total domination over the conquered people.:smallfrown:

I was going to say that, but I didn't know what they used it for.

[NENAD]

The Nazi's used hair of shaved Jewish people in Aushwitz to make uniforms, maybe Redcloak is probably doing the same disgusting act of efficiency and total domination over the conquered people.:smallfrown:

Shaving someone's hair and using it for army uniforms isn't nearly Holocaust-level shocking. When Redcloak starts a campaign to exterminate all the humans for no logical reason except that he doesn't like them, and instead of just killing them decides to starve them to death will putting them through forced labor, THEN he'll be at Nazi-level evil. 'Till then, he's just another evil slave-keeping bad guy.

[bibliophile]

Aye, an ale for ye, laddy.


Asome, people got that refrence. Now if only the gobo's were to congragte in a large building of some kind...

[Halvormerlinaky]

Is this a chance to pimp my Coif +5? You can use it if you contribute 500,000 GP to my heirloom campaign.

[Chronos]

Asome, people got that refrence. Now if only the gobo's were to congragte in a large building of some kind...But where would O-Chul get a donkey jawbone?

[Tass]

ahem :smallannoyed:

No discussion of religion. Watch those bible references. :smallwink:

[Felixaar]

Technically, were not discussing anything.

Anyhow I think its mainly about effect, since it makes em seem more uniform worthless slaves. Just like the burlap clothes.

The beards and bald lines? No idea.

[Laurentio]

When Redcloak starts a campaign to exterminate all the humans for no logical reason except that he doesn't like them, and instead of just killing them decides to starve them to death will putting them through forced labor, THEN he'll be at Nazi-level evil.
No logical reason expect that he doesn't like them AND strip them of their property and money at advantage of national funds AND create a fake enemy to fuel nationalistic feelings AND have someone to blame for inner political and economical problems?
Ok, Hitler is Hitler, but please stop the "He did evil for the fun of it / he was nut". A little of history wont kill you.

Back to hairs: considering the story of this forum, I'm prone to think that Rich drawn bald prisoners because readers things that hair=PNG.
I still remember when a reader suggested that Haley is of celestial born, because a celestial has the same hair model.
Obviously, this means that all prisoners are relatives of Roy... and Durkan...

Laurentio

[Moriarty]

phase1: collect slave hair
phase2: ???
phase3: profit!

[Callista]

Anybody who makes Hitler comments should research the guy first... and I don't mean watching Schindler's List; I mean the political climate of the time, the way people thought in Germany; the eugenics movement; Hitler's own history and way of thinking. I'm German, and he's part of my history; it really irks me the way people equate "ultimate evil" with "hitler" all the time, and have no idea of the setup that allowed him to actually come to power and do so many evil things.

The bigger pet peeve here is that they completely ignore that it wasn't just Hitler--it was all the police officers who cooperated, the army, the people who joined the party and its various organizations, and most of all the civilians who looked the other way. You can't blame it on Hitler; he was evil, no question; but he couldn't have done it without the cooperation of an entire country. There's a little evil in everyone; and if you're German, you've got a sense of national shame about the Holocaust that will forever remind you of that.

(BTW, no compliments on the English; I'm also an immigrant living in the USA; so I have a definite advantage.)

[Felixaar]

Shaving someone's hair and using it for army uniforms isn't nearly Holocaust-level shocking. When Redcloak starts a campaign to exterminate all the humans for no logical reason except that he doesn't like them, and instead of just killing them decides to starve them to death will putting them through forced labor, THEN he'll be at Nazi-level evil. 'Till then, he's just another evil slave-keeping bad guy.

Uh... I'm pretty sure that pretty much exactly what Redcloaks doing, though I'm not sure whether or not he's feedin' em.

On the mention of Hitler, did anyone ever see the documentary Hitler's Secretary? Also, we should probably all shut up now, since this is politics.

[zillion ninjas]

No discussion of religion. Watch those bible references. :smallwink:

This seems to be more like Bible-story-as-mythology than anything to do with modern religion. Referencing Samson's bad hair day like this isn't much different from discussing, say, the labors of Hercules.

More disturbingly, this thread doesn't just confirm Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) - it's just about consumed by it. :smalleek:

[Digitized]

Anybody who makes Hitler comments should research the guy first... and I don't mean watching Schindler's List; I mean the political climate of the time, the way people thought in Germany; the eugenics movement; Hitler's own history and way of thinking. I'm German, and he's part of my history; it really irks me the way people equate "ultimate evil" with "hitler" all the time, and have no idea of the setup that allowed him to actually come to power and do so many evil things.

The bigger pet peeve here is that they completely ignore that it wasn't just Hitler--it was all the police officers who cooperated, the army, the people who joined the party and its various organizations, and most of all the civilians who looked the other way. You can't blame it on Hitler; he was evil, no question; but he couldn't have done it without the cooperation of an entire country. There's a little evil in everyone; and if you're German, you've got a sense of national shame about the Holocaust that will forever remind you of that.

(BTW, no compliments on the English; I'm also an immigrant living in the USA; so I have a definite advantage.)



I'm in love... :smallcool:

There was a movie about Hitler's way of life, it was pretty interesting. I can't remember what the name of it was though for the life of me. >< Also, would you believe that I watched Schnidler's List in 8th grade History class ( I'm American ) ? =x

Back on topic - I'd attribute the loss of hair for deteriorating health.

Either that or its the fact alot of 'comical' scenes of slavery has balding people. So the strip was basically to reinforce the idea they are slaves and are in poor condition.

[EvilJames]

I'm pretty dure if it's not just an artist time saver then it's to strip them of there individuality and make them easier to control

[Callista]

It could just be that they are drawn that way to emphasize the way they have been treated by the hobgoblins. You know how the hobs are all pretty much drawn alike? Well, the slaves are similar--and that's how the hobgoblins see them; as generic humans. Also, it's obviously a time-saver; drawing a group of anonymous NPCs is easier when you draw them all similar ways, and it signals the reader that they're not going to be important except as a group. The only time I've seen Rich give individual attention to a group of NPCs is when the Sapphire Guard faced Xykon.

[dogmac]

Moriaty:

Your stage 2 is: Sell them to wig makers and as hair extensions.
Stage 3: Profit.

That is what happens in real life. Prisoners in Russia have their heads shaved for this reason.

[Fitzclowningham]

Callista, Hitler started it. Everything that followed, the really bad stuff, wouldn't have happened if he hadn't demonized Jews, called them subhuman, forced them to wear the stars, humiliated them, encouraged Kristallnacht, caused the camps to be built, etc., etc. Those who followed where he lead are definitely, truly, horribly evil, but as the prime mover and instigator, he bears the greater, and ultimate, responsibility. It was his idea, and no "political climate" can justify it.

Don't get me wrong: I appreciate the expression of shame on the part of someone who obviously had no part in what happened. But, as a Jew, justifications for Hitler make my blood run backwards.

Apologies for the political post, but I couldn't let that post go unanswered.

[NikkTheTrick]

Prisoners in Russia have their heads shaved for this reason.
As someone who lived in Russia for 17 years, I can say that this is not the case. I don't know where you got that idea from.

Price of hair for wigs and extensions is nowhere near enough to offset problem of shaving for that purpose. No one would purchase it when they can purchase hair of those who can volunteer to sell (if you gonna cut it, why not make a profit?) People in Russia would not be too excited wearing criminals' hair.

The reason is simple: lice. In prison, they are a a problem. Since they can carry infections, a big problem. If an infection spreads all over the prison, that problem becomes a disaster. That is why heads are shaved. Sanitary reasons.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

Well, you have to remember, most of the prisoners are soldiers left behind. As is seen in Daigo D. Male soldiers are almost bald in the first place, soooo…

then there is only one other solution: force them to grow hair to strip them of thier individuality!

[Zorn]

Anybody who makes Hitler comments should research the guy first... and I don't mean watching Schindler's List; I mean the political climate of the time, the way people thought in Germany; the eugenics movement; Hitler's own history and way of thinking. I'm German, and he's part of my history; it really irks me the way people equate "ultimate evil" with "hitler" all the time, and have no idea of the setup that allowed him to actually come to power and do so many evil things.

The bigger pet peeve here is that they completely ignore that it wasn't just Hitler--it was all the police officers who cooperated, the army, the people who joined the party and its various organizations, and most of all the civilians who looked the other way. You can't blame it on Hitler; he was evil, no question; but he couldn't have done it without the cooperation of an entire country. There's a little evil in everyone; and if you're German, you've got a sense of national shame about the Holocaust that will forever remind you of that.

(BTW, no compliments on the English; I'm also an immigrant living in the USA; so I have a definite advantage.)

Ha ha well now you're being unfair. First of all, Hitler does deserve a lot of the blame. He used the German people to further his own agenda, and, in the end, he had become so convinced of his dream that he continued to throw German lives away even as the Red Army began moving into Berlin, eventually having himself and several others kill themselves rather than live in a non-Nazi Germany. I wouldn't call Hitler evil, but I certainly think he deserves everything people might say about him.

Germany had been badly slighted with the Treaty of Versailles. I don't find it surprising in the least that they would follow a charismatic leader who preached the restoration of Germany. Most of the population followed Hitler for this reason, and the anti-Semitism that was involved was little more than an afterthought, a necessary evil you could say, to many. The fact is that most of the population, military included, knew very little of the Holocaust at the time. Now I'm not saying that this justifies the German public's actions, but you're making generalizations. Almost all of the people actually involved with Auschwitz and the less organized prosecution that preceded it were middle aged men who had served in (and were, therefore, the most frustrated by) the First World War yet who were unfit to serve their country otherwise. I don't know why they acted the way they did, but you're making it sound like most people played a larger role then they did. In fact, in Southern Germany there were those, Catholic communities in particular, who resisted Hitler altogether.

Besides, there were no saints in World War II. The United States, for example, for all their assurances that they were shocked by Auschwitz once they found it, knew a good deal about it. They knew, at least, enough that they could target the factories within Auschwitz during their air raids. Conveniently, they passed over the gassing chambers because it would be more cost effective. That isn't to say that the Nazis wouldn't have found other ways of killing their prisoners, but a lot of Jewish lives could have been saved if the United States military had decided to spend a few extra dollars.

I know you meant well, but what I interpreted from your post was that you were just passing some of the blame from Hitler onto the German people. Neither party was innocent by any means, but I certainly wouldn't call anyone evil. Not, at least, without examining the situation from a different perspective.

I apologize for derailing the thread once again. Like usual, I intended to make a small comment and ended up with half a page.

Anyway, I agree with the idea that shaving their heads was to take away their individuality. Hair is one of the main things we use to distinguish each other, and without it people seem more like numbers. It would, at the very least, demoralize the prisoners. Shaving people's heads also makes them look less human, which would allow their captors to see them as such and persecute them without facing any real moral conflicts. Unfortunately, I'm not sure why this would be necessary considering goblins already see them humans as different from themselves. As to the observation that they still retain some amount of hair, it seems to me like Rich's attempt to add some diversity to the scene.

[Fitzclowningham]

No, Zorn. Every single non-retarded person in Germany knew about the persecution and humiliation of the Jews. Every single non-retarded person in Germany knew that all Jews were being rounded up and put on trains. It wasn't just Auschwitz, and nothing that happened in WWI could ever possibly justify it. If they tried to destroy the French, English, and Americans, I could see it.

For the love of whatever, please stop trying to justify Hitler. You're making me sick.

Again, apologies for the political post, but, until this thread is pulled, I can't let this kind of thing sit unchallenged on this forum.

[Fitzclowningham]

In case I'm not being clear, Moderators, please yank this thread or at least kill all posts that reference Hitler. Please.

[NikkTheTrick]

Nobody is trying to justify Hitler (although I 100% agree with deleting the posts). I don't know who started the subject, but let us stop discussing it here: this is one of the few forums that does not degrade into political waving of parts of human biology. Let us keep it that way.

[Turkey_vulture]

This may have come up before, but maybe its scurvy? (Cant recall if scurvy induces falling of hair)

[Callista]

Well, duh, he started it. But if people hadn't gone along like brainwashed morons, it wouldn't have happened; and he couldn't have done it in any other environment. The whole situation was like a big barrel of gunpowder that just needed one short, hateful little Austrian spark. The German people could've prevented the Holocaust; they didn't. All it takes is for people to look the other way.

Umm, could we get back to the lack of hair thing now?

[Dacia Brabant]

Callista, Hitler started it. Everything that followed, the really bad stuff, wouldn't have happened if he hadn't demonized Jews, called them subhuman, forced them to wear the stars, humiliated them, encouraged Kristallnacht, caused the camps to be built, etc., etc. Those who followed where he lead are definitely, truly, horribly evil, but as the prime mover and instigator, he bears the greater, and ultimate, responsibility. It was his idea, and no "political climate" can justify it.

Don't get me wrong: I appreciate the expression of shame on the part of someone who obviously had no part in what happened. But, as a Jew, justifications for Hitler make my blood run backwards.

Apologies for the political post, but I couldn't let that post go unanswered.
Not that Callista needs anyone to come to her defense (and apologies to the Giant and the moderators for violating their no politics rule, I can see why it's needed and I fully expect them to take whatever actions they deem necessary), but I simply don't understand how you were able to read "justification for Hitler" into her post in any possible way. It was pretty clear that she was explaining how the German people became complicit in his evil (or rather in the evil of their regime--as the saying goes, every people has the government they deserve), not saying any of that was in any way justified extemporaneously. The only possible reading I can see of justification in her post is how the people of the time attempted to justify it in their own minds, and even then the proper term for that is rationalization, not justification.

Further off topic, it's funny that this came up and that I'm replying here because I read Callista's post earlier today when I was finishing my column on the power of speech to drive support for a political movement. Her post, which I was going to thank her for, reminded me of a passage in "The Berlin Diaries" from 1935 that describes how people who heard and watched Hitler speak about "peace" were holding on to his every word, that even French and British correspondents were moved to believe this man would bring peace to Europe. Whoops.

I see that as the kind of complicity on the part of civilians in pre-war Germany that Callista is speaking about: they were the ones who bought into his rhetoric and thereby empowered the Nazi movement to have such sweeping authority to execute its policies. While it was still him, the party and the military that were ultimately responsible the actions resulting from that, and while I question the human animal's capability to withstand the power of a hyper-charismatic leader who speaks a movement into being, the German people still freely chose to be led in such a way and were responsible for the fruits of their decision.

[Halna LeGavilk]

I personally agree with everyone who says the goblins are cutting off hair to make the soldiers less individual, more generic.

And please, guys, stop the politics.

[Arkenputtyknife]

This may have come up before, but maybe its scurvy? (Cant recall if scurvy induces falling of hair)
Not that I'm aware of, though it causes bad skin, hemorrhaging, and gum disease. In any case, it's a deficiency disease caused by inadequate diet (and cured by eating fresh fruit — a fact that's been well-known since the days of sail, hence the nickname ‘Limey’), and not a contagious disease caused by parasites, bacteria, viruses, or fungi. Shaving the head for this reason would serve no purpose.

[LerkySuntreader]

It also strips them of their individuality.

I agree. Just think why do prisons make their prisoners cut their hair? and also when you loose your hair it makes you pretty upset (and that's what the hobbos and Xykon pretty much live on) and also it keeps the hair out of the way so you can work better and also it's a smaller tassle and also it's a major time saver for Rich who probley doesn't have the time to create unique hairstles for each and every slave when he still has more strips to write and still has to do whatever he does other than OOTS... what ever that is:smallconfused:

[NikkTheTrick]

Just think why do prisons make their prisoners cut their hair?
Lice. Same reason why army makes soldiers cut their hair.

Historically, non-combat losses (mainly, disease) have been much higher than Combat ones untill early 20 century. Hence the head-shaving tradition. Even in modern armies, disease is a potential danger.

In prison, that is the case even more: convicts are much less disciplined than soldiers, live in less clean conditions and packed even closer together. Letting lice eat them is cruel and unusual. Hence shaving is needed.

[Corwin Weber]

Soldiers also traditionally wear their hair short to make it easier to keep under a helmet, and because (as anyone who's studied unarmed combat can tell you) hair gives an attacker a convenient handle attached to your head. In a lot of environments, sanitation is also an issue, but let's face it. In a medieval environment, everybody had lice and nobody really cared about it.

That having been said, lice and disease are probably a factor here. They enjoy abusing the slaves, but they don't want them to die if it can be helped. If the slaves die off, the hobs have to do the work.... so keeping them reasonably healthy is in their best interests.