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View Full Version : Making Weapon Focus/Spec valuable.



Kizara
2008-04-08, 07:18 PM
Ok well, we all know that Weapon Focus/Spec are pretty crap except for PrC pre-reqs.

This is for a couple reasons, some of which we will address and some we will not.

1) Spells are really powerful and useful compared to simply attacking. Clerics are too good, etc.

2) With the powercreep of books like ToB and so forth, there are simply massively better options for melee.

Now, things we will actually try to address:

1) Even compared to Core options, having small bonuses to attack and damage just simply isn't very good. When having a masterwork weapon is as good as your feat, its not very special. That being said, we aren't trying to make it as good as Power Attack, but make it useful to take in addition to power attack.

2) Other options, like disabling/tripping are more powerful although more situational. However, we will assume that one has a character concept that is not to be a tripping expert.

3) Compared to the d20 roll, a small bonus isn't relivant.



So, all that digression aside, if I had a character concept who was specialized in a certain weapon, how would you change the weapon focus/spec feats to better support this? Sure, you can roleplay it regardless, but if your idea is that your character is the BEST at using a greatsword, and you are only marginally better then the next guy it kinda breaks your concept.

Wooter
2008-04-08, 07:22 PM
I remember someone suggesting changing weapon focus to give +1 to hit every four levels, so that a 3/4 BAB character would fight like a full BAB character when using the right weapon.

FlyMolo
2008-04-08, 07:27 PM
Double all the bonuses, and add 1.5 times the new bonus (the old bonus again) to tripping/disarm attempts. Also, deductable for PA might be good too.

I like Wooter's idea, though. It's pretty good.

SilverClawShift
2008-04-08, 07:35 PM
I remember someone suggesting changing weapon focus to give +1 to hit every four levels, so that a 3/4 BAB character would fight like a full BAB character when using the right weapon.

It's a good direction to go. The real problem is that simple weapon feats don't scale at all, so unless you're taking a whole chain of feats from one source or another, your feat quickly becomes nothing.

Spells scale, even within the same spell-level. If you were going to make core melee classes competitive, giving them scaling abilities would be a good starting point.

melchizedek
2008-04-08, 07:37 PM
Make it +1 for every five levels, and make it count towards iterative attacks with that weapon. Thus, at 20th level, you'd get a full bonus attack using the weapon you focused in.

Baron Corm
2008-04-08, 07:38 PM
Make them like heritage feats. You get +1 to attack/damage for each Weapon Focus/Specialization/Mastery/whatever feat you have.

Townopolis
2008-04-08, 08:50 PM
Make it +1 for every five levels, and make it count towards iterative attacks with that weapon. Thus, at 20th level, you'd get a full bonus attack using the weapon you focused in.
I had the same idea. +1/5 ECL rounded up. Except Specialization was +1/3 ECL rounded up (starting at +2 at 4th level). Shield Specialization did the same (+1/5) for shields.

TempusCCK
2008-04-08, 09:16 PM
Add extra attacks for Specialization.

LibraryOgre
2008-04-08, 09:22 PM
February 9th, 2007 (http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/12868.html)

Falrin
2008-04-09, 04:52 AM
One of the big problems with weapon focus is when you encounter that big +5 briljant greataxe you didn't take the feats for. Or when you need that undead bane longsword you've been holding.

So first I'd make the feat replaceable.

1 hour training for evey feat? Maybe even 15 minutes?
All replaced feats must still meet any prereq or wouldn't work.

Next, I don't think flat bonusses are such a big problem if the feat is a decent step-up, a must heve for a good chain. But is the chain good enough? I'm afraid not.

Last. More options are better then more bonusses. Maybe make the bonus count extra for more attacks (the trip/disarm idea),
You could make a list of small extra's a character can chose from each time he takes a certain feat.
+1 trip or disarm
Extra AoO
Less range penalty.

hamishspence
2008-04-09, 05:05 AM
PH II has the Weapon Mastery feats (bonus to slashing, or piercing, or bludgeoning, depending which you pick). Warblade has the ability to have the Focus, Specialization, etc feats be moved to a different weapon. Not bad. Pity fighters don't get this.

serow
2008-04-09, 05:18 AM
+1 to hit for every 4 fighter levels, +2 to damage for every 4 fighter levels

Kizara
2008-04-21, 12:22 AM
What I ended up doing:

Fighter:

Fighter:

-Gain +1 to weapon attack rolls at 3rd level and every three levels thereafter (6th, 9th, etc).
-Gain +1 to weapon damage rolls at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, etc)
-Gain Defensive Combat: You may subtract a number from your attack rolls and add it to your AC as a Dodge bonus. This number may not exceed your fighter level. Does not stack with Combat Expertise. A fighter of 5th level or higher may use this to count as Combat Expertise for the purposes of prerequisites.
-Gain Armor Specialization as a free bonus feat at level 6.
-Gain 1 of Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude at level 7.
-Gain Uncanny Dodge at level 9.
-Gain Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 13.
-Gain a +1 Armor bonus to AC (stacks with normal armor) while wearing armor at 6th-level and every 6 levels thereafter (12th,18th).

For the main point of the thread:

-Weapon Focus grants +2 to hit with the selected weapon.
-Weapon Specialization grants +3 damage with the selected weapon.
-Greater Weapon Focus grants a further +2 to hit with the selected weapon, +4 to defensive Sunder or Disarm rolls involving the weapon and the ability to take 10 on attack rolls involving the weapon.
-Greater Weapon Specialization grants a further +3 damage with the selected weapon and doubles the weapon damage dice (1d8 becomes 2d8, 2d6 becomes 4d6, etc). Furthermore, you automatically succeed at critical confirmation rolls with the selected weapon.


I intend to totally rework Weapon Supremacy to give better bonuses and special attacks based on weapon type.


Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread and helped me brainstorm.