O-chul rocks as a paladin

[krossbow]

Often in a D&D campaign DM's will have it out for a paladin morally, having villians throw up horribly construed moral choices simply to force the paladin's hand (i.e. Save the baby or allow me to get control of the ancient artifact, disarm and acquience to almost certain death or they die, ect.), but O-chul really shows logic and dignity in this situation.



Though O-chul does not actually know anything to tell redcloak, his remarks ring true. Its not his decision to kill them, its the villians. He cannot be held accountable for the decisions of a monster, and if he fails to save them it does not damn them, only the one who did it. After seeing Miko, its great to see a paladin who you can truly respect.

[VetMichael]

Often in a D&D campaign DM's will have it out for a paladin morally, having villians throw up horribly construed moral choices simply to force the paladin's hand (i.e. Save the baby or allow me to get control of the ancient artifact, disarm and acquience to almost certain death or they die, ect.), but O-chul really shows logic and dignity in this situation.



Though O-chul does not actually know anything to tell redcloak, his remarks ring true. Its not his decision to kill them, its the villians. He cannot be held accountable for the decisions of a monster, and if he fails to save them it does not damn them, only the one who did it. After seeing Miko, its great to see a paladin who you can truly respect.

I absolutely agree! I've never played a Paladin, BUT I've been in campaigns where the DM gets a chip on his shoulder about a player who does have one - it turns into a whole philosophical argument where the DM sets up these impossible standards (including, in one instance where our party had to go to a land ruled by Lawful Evil clerics of an Evil deity and expected the Paladin to abide by the laws of the land, including human sacrifice, slavery, and all sorts of evilness). The Giant (via O-Chul) has vindicated the Paladin class in a most elegant and reasoned way. BRAVO!

[Paladin29]

I agree too, O-Chul rocks... he shows great honor, dignity and bravery... if we add the kindness and leadership of Hinjo we have the perfect paladin. :)

[Querzis]

O-chul doesnt just rock as a paladin and hes not just a good paladin, hes THE paladin. Hes the embodiment of the real spirits and the real strengths of that class.

[Half-blood]

O-chul is The new Miko (Except O-chul is cool, and not a crazy bitch) If anyone should Join the order of the stick, its him.

[hamishspence]

Yes, paladin/king, paladin/bounty hunter archetypes dilute the coolness by giving them other duties which weigh them down. But for the first time we have seen a paladin/paladin, the epitome of Paladin-ness.

[dogmac]

O'chul rocks, full stop.

I really do have the hots for him. Noble, stubborn, thoughful, tough creature that he is.

[Callista]

O-chul doesnt just rock as a paladin and hes not just a good paladin, hes THE paladin. Hes the embodiment of the real spirits and the real strengths of that class.He's mostly Fighter, though, isn't he? It would be more correct to say he is an exemplar of Good.

Note, though, that you have seen him quite in his element. O-Chul's entire life has been spent training for these last few months. But take him and put him in a different situation, and he may not come out as well. We don't yet know what happens when he deals with Neutral people--or Good people with flaws. Until now he's been set only against absolute Evil; the world has been black and white for him. We don't know what would happen in a different situation. From what I can tell, he would be as honorable and well-intentioned; but he might not be as well-suited to those roles as he is to the role of stoic prisoner.

[Demented]

But take him and put him in a different situation, and he may not come out as well. We don't yet know what happens when he deals with Neutral people--or Good people with flaws.

He suffered Shojo and Scruffy with remarkable stoicism.

[Alex Warlorn]

He's mostly Fighter, though, isn't he? It would be more correct to say he is an exemplar of Good.

Note, though, that you have seen him quite in his element. O-Chul's entire life has been spent training for these last few months. But take him and put him in a different situation, and he may not come out as well. We don't yet know what happens when he deals with Neutral people--or Good people with flaws. Until now he's been set only against absolute Evil; the world has been black and white for him. We don't know what would happen in a different situation. From what I can tell, he would be as honorable and well-intentioned; but he might not be as well-suited to those roles as he is to the role of stoic prisoner.

Granted. But remember Miko used to be a Monk before a paladin, a class KNOWN for it's self control and supposedly tolerance. Fighters are known for taking just about anyone who can hold a weapon. Yet O-Chul wasn't the one who got under everyone's skin so much they often sent their best warrior abroad.

I think O-Chul knows the world isn't fair from his time as a fighter, and it helps him know as a paladin what he can and can't do to change the world.

Miko was sheltered, and never had to deal with gray areas, running off of D&D Basic rules where Chaotic WAS evil, and Lawful WAS good.

[slayerx]

Often in a D&D campaign DM's will have it out for a paladin morally, having villians throw up horribly construed moral choices simply to force the paladin's hand (i.e. Save the baby or allow me to get control of the ancient artifact, disarm and acquience to almost certain death or they die, ect.), but O-chul really shows logic and dignity in this situation.

Though O-chul does not actually know anything to tell redcloak, his remarks ring true. Its not his decision to kill them, its the villians. He cannot be held accountable for the decisions of a monster, and if he fails to save them it does not damn them, only the one who did it. After seeing Miko, its great to see a paladin who you can truly respect.

Actually... not quite... O-chul still does rock, but he was NOT in one of those "moral damned if you do damned if you don't" situations... in the previous comic, he was in a situation like that; either tell Redcloak what he wants to know or let the humans be undone... O-chul was fairly quick to choose the former; he told Redcloak what he knew about the next gate

In the most recent comic however, O-chul had no choice... Redcloak gave him the same options but would not except the answers that O-chul had. Assuming O-chul made strength/escape-artist/rope checks to break free, he had done litterally everything he could do to save those people. He had no choice but to watch them be undone as their was nothing he can do...

We can give him props for facing such horror with strong resolution... but when it comes to those moralistic decisions, he is not any better than any other Paladin as he was relatively quick to give in to Redcloak's demands and chose the lives of the azurites over the protection of the gate... frankly, i think that he did have more info and chose to remain silent he would have felt guilty since their was something he could have done to stop redcloak

[Alex Warlorn]

Given the LONG AND HARD efforts Redcloak had gone through to simply EXTRACT the information from him via magic, it's safe to assume O-Chul is indeed ignorant of the others gates.

[Querzis]

We can give him props for facing such horror with strong resolution... but when it comes to those moralistic decisions, he is not any better than any other Paladin as he was relatively quick to give in to Redcloak's demands and chose the lives of the azurites over the protection of the gate...

He didnt chose the lives of the azurites over the protection of the gate, he chose the lives of the azurite over a lie he made up. Its not his fault if hes a bad liar.


frankly, i think that he did have more info and chose to remain silent he would have felt guilty since their was something he could have done to stop redcloak

...how could he have more information? Come on, dont tell me you really believe Redcloak fanatic speech?

[Zynex]

being between a rock and a hard place is a tricky situation. you have to be able to live with the consequences derived from the decision you make as the situation presents itself. O-chul tried to bluff, it was the only option given he was physically incapacitated, and if that would net him even a 1% chance of success, it would be worth it despite the results of failure.

all that aside, O-chul is an awesome character, kinda reminds me of Thanh a few strips ago. both of them have this same aura of paladin-ness, although thanh was merely a soldier.

[Callista]

He suffered Shojo and Scruffy with remarkable stoicism.Yeah, that'd be part of the training I referred to, actually. :)

[tenguro]

So much cooler then the bandana pally. anybody have an O-chul fan club going?

[slayerx]

He didnt chose the lives of the azurites over the protection of the gate, he chose the lives of the azurite over a lie he made up. Its not his fault if hes a bad liar.

He told Redcloak everything her knew which is nothing more than what Redcloak already knew... Redcloak ordered him to talk and he has, as Redcloak has heard what his truthful answer is... redcloak found out the "true" answer back when he went through that series of spells to get the truth; esspecially, O-chul saying that he has no more information is really just telling Redcloak that he has already heard the truth, whether it be the thing with the riddles or what he heard back when he was using magic



...how could he have more information? Come on, dont tell me you really believe Redcloak fanatic speech?
Text error, there was supposed to be a big "IF" in that last statement

[Sethis]

all that aside, O-chul is an awesome character, kinda reminds me of Thanh a few strips ago. both of them have this same aura of paladin-ness, although thanh was merely a soldier.

Actually, Thanh is a Paladin. or, at least, the other resistance leaders and his clothes seem to indicate him as such.

And, using Lay on Hands on Tsukiko.

[Krenn]

it turns into a whole philosophical argument where the DM sets up these impossible standards (including, in one instance where our party had to go to a land ruled by Lawful Evil clerics of an Evil deity and expected the Paladin to abide by the laws of the land, including human sacrifice, slavery, and all sorts of evilness). BRAVO!

That wouldn't make any kind of sense. The paladin would only be obligated to participate in such rituals if:

A. the evil nation in question enjoyed treaties and diplomatic recgonition with the Paladin's home nation or Order.
B. Those treaties recgonized the correctness of human sacrifice as performed by the evil nation.
C. The Paladin was visiting the evil nation with diplomatic credentials from his home nation or Order.

AND

D. The paladin was under orders from higher authority to participate in any rituals he was invited to as an ambasador to his nation.

Even if those four conditions were all true, there's a pretty good chance that the Paladin's home nation or order would cease to be Lawful good. and even if the Paladin's home nation allowed that situation to develop and was STILL considered lawfull good, the Paladin would probably either

A. Resign in protest

and/or

B. refuse his orders as being unlawfull

and/or

C. Launch an anti-corruption campaign of some sort against his home nation or Order.

Now, a LAWFUL NEUTRAL diplomat, on behalf of a LAWFULL NEUTRAL NAtion, MIGHT participate in such sacrifice rituals. The only concession you're likely to get from a paladin is that maybe now isn't the best time to issue a declaration of total war.

What is it with people who think that the morality of my actions can be dictated by placing me in bizarre and contrived situations? The only moral questions that exist in those sorts of situations are

1. How can I prevent this person from placing me in a bizarre and contrived situation again.
2. How can I ensure that this person does not profit from creating bizarre and contrived situations.
3. How can I fulfill (1) and (2) with the least loss of life and/or innoccence?

If I SURRENDER to the demands of a bizzare and contrived situation, that just means that I've tacitly admitted that he who controls the situation, rightfully should control the world. and that's just crazy.

[Pronounceable]

:smallsigh: Who in their right mind would send a PALADIN as an ambassador to an evil theocracy?


O-Chul rocks. (this deserves to be a single paragraph)

But I'll have to insist that Hinjo is the paladiniest paladin we've seen up to now. We haven't seen much of Thanh or Lien (unrelated tangent: she's cool). The unnamed lot doesn't count. Then there's the OTHER one but let's just pretend she wasn't there.

O-Chul is the tough guy. He's naturally inspiring under the recent conditions. But we haven't seen him in other, less dangerous situations. He may not rock much then. And we've seen Hinjo in more variable situations, and he rocked in all of them.

Maybe that has something to with Hinjo being the highest level straight pally? Maybe other class levels water down pallyness? Probably not.

Hinjo is the best pally we've seen in OotS. In ANY given fantasy story, he'd fit the protagonist role to the 2nd T. Whereas, O-Chul would serve the story better as the tough guy. Which is what he's doing now.

Nevertheless, O-Chul rocks.


Geeky off topic: What is (or was) the power scale of Sapphire Guard? Do we know much? Hinjo was confirmed 2nd, but is O-Chul 3rd? Hinjo said he was the toughest, but tough=!powerful.

[vegetalss4]

:smallsigh: Who in their right mind would send a PALADIN as an ambassador to an evil theocracy?


people who want an ecuse to declare war?

[Callista]

At which point:

Paladin: Sorry, guys, I made my Sense Motive check. I'm respectfully declining this mission, on account of the few thousand soldiers and civilians who'd be killed if you had your way with this "war" thing.

Ah, the beauty of class skills.

[Paladin29]

At which point:

Paladin: Sorry, guys, I made my Sense Motive check. I'm respectfully declining this mission, on account of the few thousand soldiers and civilians who'd be killed if you had your way with this "war" thing.

Ah, the beauty of class skills.


I can´t say it better :)

[Milandros]

He's mostly Fighter, though, isn't he? It would be more correct to say he is an exemplar of Good.


While I see your point, I must say I disagree with it. A paladin is a paladin, regardless of any other class levels. It's not a profession, it's a calling. To remain a paladin one must keep the mental outlook at all times. A paladin with one level of paladin and 9 levels of fighter is not 10% as LG as a paladin with 10 levels of paladin. It's why the rules restrict paladin multi-classing.

A first level aladin and a fifteenth level paladin have similar mentla outlooks. It's just that one has much more power than the other.