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shadow_archmagi
2008-04-09, 06:08 PM
Characters:
10th level gestault paladin/cleric LG
10th level gestalt sword sage/drunken master CG
Setting: The capital city of a (mostly) human country.
Concept: Large Battle.
Experience: Minimal. This game, which has carried them from 4 up to 10, has been going on longer than all other attempts to get a game of D&D going combined.
Preferences: Siege machines on the side of the enemy should be minimal. I want a swarm of melee fighters, not a prolonged exchange of very large rocks. Casters minimal likewise, with maybe a 1/100 ratio of casters/soldiers.

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So, what race should I use for the enemy and how should I run this?

melchizedek
2008-04-09, 06:11 PM
Do you have Heroes of Battle? If so, I believe there are a lot of sample armies near the back of the book, plus lots of interesting rules and ideas for running large scale battles.

shadow_archmagi
2008-04-09, 06:17 PM
Do you have Heroes of Battle? If so, I believe there are a lot of sample armies near the back of the book, plus lots of interesting rules and ideas for running large scale battles.

Ah. Thank you for pointing that out. *flips through while waiting for more posts*

Fascinating!

Prometheus
2008-04-09, 08:29 PM
Trolls or Minotaurs. If Trolls play strategically, they can outlast the others. As for Minotaurs, they mechanically make a battle-charge viable. Both of them are a base race that doesn't need a lot of training to be dangerous in mass, which is usually the problem when sending hundreds of 1st or 2nd warriors. More importantly a couple of blasts (not that your PCs have any) can't wipe them out because they have a strong emphasis on HP. They are monstrous enough to justify war, but still not monstrous enough that attacking as an army is implausible

playswithfire
2008-04-09, 11:50 PM
To be a little bit evil, for the commander of the opposition, give him 10 levels of War Chanter from Complete Warrior. He can give all allies within 60 feet a BAB equal to the highest BAB among those allies or the war chanter's character level (and 20 bonus HP). Give him a bunch of pounce-barbarian minions and watch the onslaught.

Kol Korran
2008-04-10, 09:02 AM
ok, a few ideas, that are supposed to work within the parameters you assigned. each has a different emphasis though:

1) the goblinoid army: the 3 common goblinoid races makes for an orderly and fairly efficient army! each race has it's assigned duties (bugbears- shock troopers. hobgoblins- main meat of the army, expereinced infintry and cavalry. goblins- casters, skirmishers, en-mass swarms, and support). goblins in particular make for effective swarming and tunneling tactics- lots and lots of "squishabble" fodder.

goblinoids are more prone than other humanoid races to utilise various other creatures, for various roles (as is with their races), creating "specialized" units. many of these should be easely trainable animals or magic beasts, for example:

wolf and worg cavalries.
ogres or minotaurs as shock troops, and gate breakers.
rust monster cavalry (the rusties are armored in leather armor, and ridden by two goblins, all equipment is non metal.) these are supposed to reduce heavy infentry into soft infentry, thus breaking an army's formation.
Kreshnar: kept hidden till the forces get close, and then released. they are to create panic and confusion, instilling chaos in the army.
Ankheg/ Bullet to dig under the walls, and strike into the city. this works best with conjunction with another force, such as the Kreshnars. i'd go with ankhegs, since bullets seem very untrainable.
air support in the form of hippogriffs, griffons, wyvern, or perhaps a manticore or two (the latter are especially effective- can shoot spikes, and looks monsterous enough). you could add Yeth hounds for terror.
a single (or a few) basilisk/s, with their eyes covered until you reach the enemy... ridden by the most courageous goblins/ hobgoblins...
some large/ huge dire or horrid animal to be unleashed on the main force causing havoc and destruction.

for your caster i's suggest a druid/ spirit shaman, just to go with the theme. . this army is more complicated to run than the next ideas, but might be quite fun. the characters might be tasked with eliminating any of the more "exotic" threats, as the main army advances, swarming... or they can run into them while battlign the large masses.

2) army of bugs: (this is inspired by another thread, if i'm not mistaken by Serpentine) the invading army is composed of a huge colony of Formians (or a few smaller colonies), perhap with an escort of Abeils. you basically got a swarm of ant and bee "people". they may have their own reasons to attack (whatever these are), or they might have made a deal/ alliance with their queens/ controlled their queens/ threatened something very valuable to them... some of the characteristics:

as with the goblinoids, you can have distinct roles for the various "bugs", depending on their size, numbers, and more. workers could be the support troops and the en-mass swarmers. the soldiers are... well, the soldiers. task masters could utilize all kind of special slaves under their control for various jobs, and myrmachs are large troop commanders, equell to colonels and such (the queen is the general in comparison)
feel free to create other roles, such as "archers", who are ants that can spit acid to a long way accuratly.
central swarm mind: this army acts far more swiftly and efficiently as a whole army. it however lacks the initiative to deal with things locally.
fiercless, mindless swarm: this isn't exactly true, but the swarm dedication is unwavering, they would't mind dying i ntheir thousands to accomplish their goals.. this "inhuman" approach should be made clear.
the queen/s : is/are the only full casters, but they are powerfull ones (the ratio of casters/ non casters drops to 1 to hunderds or thousands, but the power level of the caster should balance this out). if a queen is slain though, it's colony either breaks, or join one of the other queens. these are THE strategic assests. if the queen seem too tough, tone it down a bit...
tunneling and engineering: should be far more prevalent in this army, with multiple eruption points within the city peremiter, as well as under mining and destabalizing of the walls themselves.
Abeils: i don't have the MMII with me, but these are basically the air support, and should act very similarily. the reason for why these two races work together might be used by the players to destabalize the invading army, and turn the battle. depending on how you set it.
swarms of vermin: added to the formains, add swarms of toher vermins, and mke a swarm of tiny giant ants (sounds rediculeous, i know)- basically- ants of tiny size, so they could fit into a swarm. it shouldn't be hard to create, probably similar in stats to a rat swarm, only harder natural armor, no diseases, perhaps a bit of acid damage, and different skills.


3)reptilian army: "deaths to the warm bloods!" this works best if the city is close to a major river or body of water, and if it fits the flavour of your campaign. in my mind it seems difficult to organise many different reptilian races into one coherent attack force, so i'd suggest to split them. you can however do as you wish. the emphasis here is on the "lizardness" of the assailants, and if approapriate- the use of the water bodies to attack from. soem of the characteristics:

main race: could be troglodytes, but i'd go with the lizardmen. if you have the MM3, then you have two other subraces to add, just like with the goblinoids: blackscales as shock troopers, and poison dusk as swarmers, archers, and support. feel free to have kobolds as well, probably as a slave race for support, and mcannon fodder...
another race that is importent to suggest are the Yuan Ti. i have a hard time imagining them as a main force (too fewm, too secretive), but they can either be the leaders of this force, (giving it a very intellignet, very malicious leadership), or more likely- an elite support group, probably with the main casters. a contigenent of these might be an importent target for the PCs...)
the army should feel like a savage barbaric horde (go orcs!) add a barbarian level or more to unit commanders, make some of the more powerfull individuals were-dinosaurs. the army should always push forwared, adhering (maybe) only to a basic attack plan, relying on their number, strength, and moral. (special units may be exempt of this of course)
make heavy use of disease, poison and such (ones that the lisradmen are immune to), to emphasize the nature of the army...
mounts: small to large dinosaurs, Hydras (with a few posion dusks on their backs, shooting poisoned arrows at anyone trying to cut of their heads or butn them), advanced monitor lizards.
special forces: one or few young black dragons (so they won't be casters) as air support and terror. perhaps a single medusa to break the enemies formation. a gibbering mouther locked in tight container, and released by one ofthe flying dragons over the main troupe?


4)the summoned army: a bit of a weird idea, but listen me out: a villain (or a group of villains) got hold of an artifact that enalbes it to summon masses of lower levels outsiders (i'm thinking lemures or dretch) several times a day. the artifacts can also summon far fewer amounts of stronger outsiders (your casters and "special" troops). this basically means a free, sudden army!

this idea might suit best if you're just springing the existence of the besieging army out of the blue. any of the other scenerios and the players might start asking where were the signs for this uprising- a force this big doesn't just build without there being any...

so the villain/s starts an invasion, protecting him/her/themselves by a small force of normal troops (from any of the other escenerio), while each day unleashing the outsider hordes upon the city. some charactersitics:

this has a much more "outworldly" feel to it. make sure the devils/ demons feel so (creepy music, weird responses and such).
this is perfect for senseless hordes: most of the lower level devils/ outsiders are barely sentient as it is, and the villain cares not for preserving his forces- they will be gone when the summoning ends, and there will be new ones tommorow! the villain plans to win by the sheer number of attacks, wearing the defenders out.
this is perfect if you want to have pauses between horde attacks. the "swarm of the day" just dies or disappears, the characters and the city just try to tend to their wounded, hoping this ended. next day- surprise! after several days of this the characters might understand that something is wrong, and look for the source (the villain, though heavily protected by troops, tries to stay as hidden as possible).
you could try different forces everyday. (especially the more powerfull ones). if any of the characters knows of the differences between the various alligances of the outsiders, (devils and demons for example) this could realy get confusing.


5)army of stone: last idea, and a bit whacked, but that can work as well if you're looking for an exotic feel. an army who's theme is petrification. it is far smaller than the normal armies, but is composed of fairly strong, and terrifying troops. you will have to find a jestification for this, but i'll let you worry about that... some characteristics:

troops: medusas as troop commaders, grimlocks as the main swarming meat (immune to the medusas gaze), improved movement basilisks as mounts, gorgons as shock troopers and gate breakers. gargoyles as air support. this are the "normal troops"...
more special ones: controlled earth elementals, perhaps a few stone golems. to add to the horror and fear, i'd suggest a special affect for the army: any petrified creature starts acting like an animated statue under the army's command, a few rounds/minutes after it has been turned to stone, thus bolstering the army! the source for this could be an artifact, or perhaps new special creatures, with the "animate objects" ability that the ravid has. killing these creatures/ destroying the artifact can render the statues immobile again.
this army uses the "forward march" mentality mainly due to their need to get close to the enemy and petrify it. this is a deadly army, but not an unstopable one.
you could add various "allready animated" creatures to the army- a petrified hydra, a petrified giant, dragin, and more...
i suggest you somehow give the players a magical item that block a certain amount of petrification attempts (if they fail their saves). however, that amount is limited, not rechargable, and... no one can determine exactly how many charges are left. this way, you enable the players to function in the dangerous proximity of the enemy, but only for so long (to achieve critical goals at best, not slay the entire army), and they never know when their luck might run out. you keep them on edge... consider the items a limited life support (with the meter broken) in the petrifying-friendly habitat.


that is all i got, for now. if you'll be mroe specific, we might give you better indications. as to the exact composition of the army/ies use the aforementioned Heroes of Battle, but just replace and tweak what is necessery... hope this helped, tell us what you use.
Kol.