(Feline Race) Catkin [PEACH]

[Nada Rakshasa]

Catkin
In fantasy literature, one might encounter a special house-cat. Sometimes the only indication that the cat is different is it can speak or grin. In other cases, they can stand upright, wear human clothing and wield weapons. In stranger cases it may be able to turn invisible, teleport or walk through walls.

Catkin racial traits:

• +2 Dexterity,–2 Strength.
• Magical Beasts: Catkin are of the Magical Beast type and are therefore not affected by spells such as charm person and hold person. Unlike most Magical Beasts, Catkin gain Hit Dice only by acquiring levels in a character class.
• Catkin base land speed is 20 feet as a biped, 30 feet on all fours.
• Small: As a Small creature, a catkin gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
• Low-Light Vision: A catkin can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Slight Build: The physical stature of catkin lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a catkin is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the catkin is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A catkin is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A catkin can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a catkin remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
• Racial Skills: Catkin have a +2 racial bonus on Climb and Move Silently checks and a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks. Catkin have a +4 racial bonus on Balance checks. They use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb and Jump checks.
+2 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
• Racial Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse
• Automatic Languages: Common and Catkin. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass catkin’s rogue levels do not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

Feline Feats: Feats of the feline type are available only to cats and other feline creatures, including catkin, vlandir, lions, rakshasas, tigers, tressym (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting), and other feline creatures.

CAT-FALL [Feline]
As according to popular belief, you do always land on your feet. At least, if you’ve learned Cat-Fall you do.
Benefit: : You recover instantly from a fall and can absorb some damage from falling. You land on your feet no matter how far you fall, and you take damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is.
Special: : You can take this feat up to 6 times. Each additional use of this feat increases your Catfall distance by 10 feet.

CAT-SCRATCH [Feline]
You develop the natural weapons of your feline relatives.
Benefit: : You gain two claw attacks. You can make a natural attack with your claws, dealing 1d4 slashing damage with each claw.
Special: : A catkin fighter may select Cat-Scratch as a bonus feat.

CHESHIRE BLOOD [Feline]
You are better able to get out of harm’s way, or find a better perch to taunt your enemies.
Prerequisite: : Catkin, Cha 15, Knowledge (Arcana) 6 ranks.
Benefit: : Able to use dimension leap as a spell-like ability 3/day. With this spell-like ability can teleport up to a total of 10 feet per character level per use. The character can leap a shorter distance than his maximum, as long as the distance is in 10-foot increments. You can bring along any objects you are touching as the spell is cast, so long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You cannot bring along other creatures.
If this spell would put you in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, the spell fails. Using Cheshire Blood is a standard action.

CHESHIRE POUNCE [Feline]
You are able to teleport and pounce upon you opponents.
Prerequisite: : Cat-Scratch, Pounce, Cheshire Blood.
Benefit: : Anytime a Catkin uses his Chesire Blood feat, he may execute a full attack upon completion of the teleportation. The catkin must have line of sight on his intended target from his original location, and the spot to which he teleports must be a place from which he can launch a melee attack the intended target with whatever weapon he has in hand at the beginning of his action.

POUNCE [Feline]
You can rush unaware foes and deliver several attacks before they have a chance to respond.
Prerequisite: :, Dex 13.
Benefit: : If you use the charge action against a flatfooted opponent, you can make a full attack with your natural weapons at the end of a charge.
Special: : A catkin fighter may select Catkin Pounce as a bonus feat.

Edit 4/23: Made some changes to the race in general and to some of the racial feats. Lemme know what you think. Yes, I opted to do away with the mental modifiers and dual-favored class. A friend of mine made some valid points that swayed my thoughts on the matter. Some of the feats have changed as well, others added. I've concerns about balance, so I'd appreciate additional input.

[Atticus Bleak]

I....LOVE...THIS...RACE! My bard acually has a talking upright-walking cat familiar who walks with a sage style cane. Anyway, it seems pretty good, but I'm not the best person to ask. Good job tho!

[Kyace]

I assume this is meant to be the "Puss in Boot" or "Cheshire Cat" archetype? Personally, I think +2 Dex, -2 Str and Bonus feat of Weapon Finesse, along with making climb and jump dex based is mechanically strong. I might suggest spelling out what sort of action it takes to go on all fours<->bipedal, I'd suggest a move action, along with limiting what actions can be taken while on all fours. I'd say this is a weak LA +1 race or a very strong LA +0 race, atm.

[Lappy9000]

If you're shooting for a +0 race, just take out bonus feat and you're good. If you want a +1, you might wanna beef them up just a touch. Natural weapons perhaps?

[Coplantor]

Nice race, well done, I may throw some of this as an NPC encounter in my campain, players will surely be surprised, they'll never expect the surprise attack from above... deliver death from above... mmmm mbuahahahaha...

No, really, nice race.

[jagadaishio]

I assume this is meant to be the "Puss in Boot" or "Cheshire Cat" archetype? Personally, I think +2 Dex, -2 Str and Bonus feat of Weapon Finesse, along with making climb and jump dex based is mechanically strong. I might suggest spelling out what sort of action it takes to go on all fours<->bipedal, I'd suggest a move action, along with limiting what actions can be taken while on all fours. I'd say this is a weak LA +1 race or a very strong LA +0 race, atm.

A move action is far too much. A swift action would be more like it.

[Bhu]

Most excellent!!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Nada Rakshasa]

A move action is far too much. A swift action would be more like it.

I agree. That sounds reasonable to me.


Nice race, well done, I may throw some of this as an NPC encounter in my campain, players will surely be surprised, they'll never expect the surprise attack from above... deliver death from above... mmmm mbuahahahaha...

No, really, nice race.

Thanks. And that sounds fun . . . Unfortunately, in my case, all of my friends already know that if a cat shows up in one of my campaigns, they should treat it really nicely, leave it alone or run the hell away. Oh, well.


If you're shooting for a +0 race, just take out bonus feat and you're good. If you want a +1, you might wanna beef them up just a touch. Natural weapons perhaps?

At present, I am attempting a LA+0 race. I feel that Weapon Finesse is in keeping with the concept and shouldn't be too unbalancing.

As mentioned above, I'd planned a series of feats to fill out their abilities, and one for natural weapons is in the works. Perhaps it would make more sense as an inherent ability, but for now, I'm attempting LA+0.

I do still need to playtest the catkin and see how they work out. Perhaps that's something I'll alter.


I assume this is meant to be the "Puss in Boot" or "Cheshire Cat" archetype? Personally, I think +2 Dex, -2 Str and Bonus feat of Weapon Finesse, along with making climb and jump dex based is mechanically strong. I might suggest spelling out what sort of action it takes to go on all fours<->bipedal, I'd suggest a move action, along with limiting what actions can be taken while on all fours. I'd say this is a weak LA +1 race or a very strong LA +0 race, atm.

Yeah, they're two of the cats I was inspired by. Also the nameless cat from "The Last Unicorn" and several others.

The movement issue has (currently) been addressed, and thanks for mentioning it. I should have thought about that earlier . . .

But you think it could swing as a LA +0 race, perhaps? I plan on testing them soon to see if they're properly balanced.


I....LOVE...THIS...RACE! My bard acually has a talking upright-walking cat familiar who walks with a sage style cane. Anyway, it seems pretty good, but I'm not the best person to ask. Good job tho!

Thank you! And I appreciate your opinion regardless. It's good to know that people would be interested in this race.

[Kyace]

I might suggest giving a +10 racial bonus on disguise checks to appear as normal cats, much like Disguise Self gives.

Speaking of which, giving a LA +0, 0 HD magical beast could invite trouble with Alter Self spells: unicorn, giant eagle, giant owl, owlbear, pegasus, cockatrice and Worg, for example, are valid creatures that catkin could turn into with it.

[Nada Rakshasa]

I might suggest giving a +10 racial bonus on disguise checks to appear as normal cats, much like Disguise Self gives.

Speaking of which, giving a LA +0, 0 HD magical beast could invite trouble with Alter Self spells: unicorn, giant eagle, giant owl, owlbear, pegasus, cockatrice and Worg, for example, are valid creatures that catkin could turn into with it.

A bonus to disguise would be reasonable. I'm just kind of leery of adding more to this race. It's already approaching Dwarven levels of content . . . And they've already got a lot of racial skill bonuses . . .

Hmm . . . Alter Self. I'd just like to point that as small creatures with the Slight Build trait, Catkin would be limited to Medium thru . . . er, Diminutive-sized magical beasts. And considering the number of LA+0 Outsiders and fey running around nowadays, I'm wondering if that's so much an issue . . . *pulls the "But WoTC is doing it!" excuse and runs away*

[togapika]

...
I just want to play the Cheshire Cat now.

[Lappy9000]

At present, I am attempting a LA+0 race. I feel that Weapon Finesse is in keeping with the concept and shouldn't be too unbalancing.

You're probably fine, though. The race looks great, they're just a bit on the tough side for a +0. Shouldn't pose any real problems, however.

[mikeejimbo]

...
I just want to play the Cheshire Cat now.

I want to stat him up mechanically.

[Nada Rakshasa]

I want to stat him up mechanically.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c

I think this is 3.0, but if you scroll down to the bottom, someone actually has.

Edit: Sorry, it'd help if the link was there . . .

[asphen fox]

One question. Let's say that this race can turn, as a swift action, to human form, give or take a few minor giveaways (cat-like eyes... tail... You know what I mean.).

What level adjustment would that give this race? Or what possible changes are needed to keep this race in LA +0 while adding that feature to its racial abilities?

[Nada Rakshasa]

One question. Let's say that this race can turn, as a swift action, to human form, give or take a few minor giveaways (cat-like eyes... tail... You know what I mean.).

What level adjustment would that give this race? Or what possible changes are needed to keep this race in LA +0 while adding that feature to its racial abilities?

An interesting question but notsomuch a direction I wanted to go with this concept. I was actually trying to avoid the whole "cat-girl/boy" issue. They're meant to be cats, easily mistakable for ordinary (if somewhat larger than normal) house-cats.

That being said, if someone wants to homebrew my homebrew, that's their affair.

[Trizap]

why does everyone keep stealing my Cat-race idea?

[Aleron]

Yes...we all steal your idea. :smallfrown:

[TheOOB]

The bonus to charisma doesn't work well. First, any race that has a bonus to a mental stat (and thus to spellcasting) is very powerful for a LA +0 race, and the race has no real penalties to balance that. Aside from that, this race is very cat-like and stealthy, which means they typically don't stand out a great deal which is acually an indicator of a low cha rather then a high cha. Also, the wis penalty makes no sense, cats are usually portrayed as cunning, perceptive, and wise, if a little too curious for their own good.

Small sized combined with slight build also cause problems. The potential bonuses in many situations for being considered tiny are huge, and can be quite unbalancing.

[VForVaarsuvius]

While we're on this idea, what about a ninja class (And in-game order) that worships cats for their speed, agility, always landing upright, darkvision and all that. And their masks kinda look like cat heads (Like catwomans mask for reference) and they like train in speed and stuff like that. (And they have man-made claws. Ninjas used to have those IRL) And maybe they could get special abilities and stuff.

\V/

[Aleron]

Not to be rude, but I think your off on about all points here.


The bonus to charisma doesn't work well. First, any race that has a bonus to a mental stat (and thus to spellcasting) is very powerful for a LA +0 race, and the race has no real penalties to balance that.
While the free boost in Cha would make for good sorcers and the like, I don't see this as being a HUGH advantage like your saying. There are plenty of +0 LA races that have bonuses to mental stats that aren't overpowered. And personally having a -2 to both Str and Wis IS a big negative.

Aside from that, this race is very cat-like and stealthy, which means they typically don't stand out a great deal which is acually an indicator of a low cha rather then a high cha.
I think this is meant to mean that many of the race are charming/cute. The stealthy thing doesn't mean ugly/rude/ect... just that they're hard to discern from a normal cat unless they want you too. Unless the race was Xenuphobic or had some sort of genetic, ritualistic disformaty(SP?) there's no reason for a -Cha at all.

Also, the wis penalty makes no sense, cats are usually portrayed as cunning, perceptive, and wise, if a little too curious for their own good.
The saying "Curiosity killed the cat" comes to mind, again what it sounds like he was trying to get across as a problem with the race. Think of it as the "Ohh, SHINEY!" affliction. :)


Small sized combined with slight build also cause problems. The potential bonuses in many situations for being considered tiny are huge, and can be quite unbalancing.That however I won't argue with. Talk about a massive bonus to Sneak(if you combine Hide/Move Slient as one skill).

[TheOOB]

Name a race with a mental stat bonus that isn't overpowered, also, just because it's published in an official WotC book, doesn't mean it's not overpowered. Spellcasters win D&D, spellcasters effectiveness is directally related to their casting stat. Any increase in casting stats makes casters more broken then they allready are.

Also, charisma is usually represented as force of personality, individuality. It's a measure of a person's ability to make an impact on someone else, to stand out. Traditionally these have been seen as very human traits, the traits that make humans different then animals, which stands to reason an animal wouldn't have as strong a sense of self.

As for the wisdom penalty, while most cats are very curious and facinated by seemingly inane things, they are very perceptive and rarely get themselves into a situation they cant get out of.

[Aleron]

Name a race with a mental stat bonus that isn't overpowered, also, just because it's published in an official WotC book, doesn't mean it's not overpowered. Spellcasters win D&D, spellcasters effectiveness is directally related to their casting stat. Any increase in casting stats makes casters more broken then they allready are.
Ask an ye shall receive:
Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104
Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20
Star Elf: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., otherworldly touch (su), extraplanar (su), bard, humanoid (elf), unapproachable east pg.10 Not sure about it's abilities, but the Ability score boost don't make it broken...plus FC is Bard :-P
Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15
Hellbred (Spirit): +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft, hellbound (su), spirit (su), paladin, humanoid (hellbred), Fiendish Codex II pg.78
Deep Imaskari: +2 Int -2 Dex, medium, 30 ft., spell clutch (su), wizard, humanoid (human), underdark pg.9
Again, not sure what the SU is/does, but the stats don't make it broken
All of this is listed here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=697653) and all are +0LA I left out the Planetouched and the ones with mods to all ability scores...some of those were out there...but I don't think any of them are inherently "broken" because they have an ability score mod :/




Also, charisma is usually represented as force of personality, individuality. It's a measure of a person's ability to make an impact on someone else, to stand out. Traditionally these have been seen as very human traits, the traits that make humans different then animals, which stands to reason an animal wouldn't have as strong a sense of self.
Right...a sentient animal couldn't possibly have a nice personality, be inherently kind to people. Only REAL animals can do that. Personaly I think Dolphins are very charismatic, as do most people that have spent any time around them at all, and they're "just" animals. Personal opinion so are cats in general. All of mine have been minus 1, and he had a chip on his shoulder from being the runt and kicked out of the litter.



As for the wisdom penalty, while most cats are very curious and facinated by seemingly inane things, they are very perceptive and rarely get themselves into a situation they cant get out of.
Try telling that to my cats(I've had 6 different cats in the last 6 year, and one of them for the last 6.5). Normally your right, they do manage to keep them selves out of trouble/avoid stupid situations. However they normally have a propencity to be VERY singleminded on some things. My older cat(almost 7yo) will pee on my wife's foot if she doesn't get him breakfast first thing in the morning, knowing it will get him locked outside. He also tried to enjoy long walks on Bubble Bath...after god only knows how many times he's already fallen in. Don't seem that wise to me. He is however very likeable(aside from the peeing thing) and about everyone who meets him loves him(seems charismatic to me). AND on top of all that manages to hide like the dikins in a moments notice...hmm...there goes you Stealth=bad Cha :-/

[Trizap]

well, cats has always struck me as more wiser, more dexterous, and having more common sense than dogs, see I would portray Catekians (my version of catkin/catfolk) as stealthy guys but not just that- they would also have this wiser, spiritual side to them like clerics and druids, and less like sorcerers or wizards, to me Catekians are more divine than arcane, being more in tune with nature and their god than books or arcane magic.

[Aleron]

well, cats has always struck me as more wiser, more dexterous, and having more common sense than dogs, see I would portray Catekians (my version of catkin/catfolk) as stealthy guys but not just that- they would also have this wiser, spiritual side to them like clerics and druids, and less like sorcerers or wizards, to me Catekians are more divine than arcane, being more in tune with nature and their god than books or arcane magic.

In general I agree. My catfolk(in the sig) have spirit shaman/ranger as favored classes, with a high dex bonus. Their neg is to Int -2 which is how I handle the "Ohh SHINEY!!!!" syndrome, not to mention they're a "young" race in my setting.

[Nada Rakshasa]

Trizap: Um, no offense, I don't know you or your work. I've been looking for a non-ECL feline race for a while and finally decided to build one.

As for the other issues raised:

On the issue of wisdom and charisma, several thoughts. While often perceptive and cautious, cats can also be quite oblivious and thoughtless. And I have seen cats in situations they could not extricate themselves from. Being sentient just opens up the possibilities for such trouble.

Being cat-like and stealthy does not go hand in hand with a lack of charisma. Most cats I've known have plenty of personality, and more than a few have been fairly forceful personalities. It's not a matter of low charisma as much as being small and knowing how to conceal oneself. And while I've seen races that received a bonus to Hide from a lack of personality, the Catkin are not one of them.

You'll note that the Catkin are not animals, but magical beasts, inspired by fantastical examples of cats in classic literature or film. They are sentient creatures and have a very strong "sense of self."

As for Small Build . . . I chose it to represent that fact that Catkin appear to be closer in stature to normal cats. It seemed less painful than actually making them Tiny size. And it's partially because it seems like a very feline trait. Perhaps I could make it into a very specific Catkin feat, but I prefer it as a racial trait.
And I suppose I can make a variant for DMs who combine Hide/Move Silently, but I'm more inclined to leave it to their judgement in this situation.

[asphen fox]

An interesting question but notsomuch a direction I wanted to go with this concept. I was actually trying to avoid the whole "cat-girl/boy" issue. They're meant to be cats, easily mistakable for ordinary (if somewhat larger than normal) house-cats.

That being said, if someone wants to homebrew my homebrew, that's their affair.

Oh. Ok. :smallbiggrin: I'll take your advice then. :D

[Trizap]

how about this: how about my Catekians are some sort of subrace of catkin?
difference: taller, leans towards divine stuff and nature, and maybe a little more of a hunter than a rogue?

[curtis]

Felinjas. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4209600#post4209600) Feline ninjas. Says it all really.

Love this race, by the way.

[Nada Rakshasa]

how about this: how about my Catekians are some sort of subrace of catkin?
difference: taller, leans towards divine stuff and nature, and maybe a little more of a hunter than a rogue?

I s'pose they could be. I haven't seen the Catekians and am unfamiliar with their origins/nature. That and I haven't had a chance to flesh out the flavour aspect of the Catkin.

And thanks for the input, everyone. Every bit has helped, in one way or another.

[Trizap]

I s'pose they could be. I haven't seen the Catekians and am unfamiliar with their origins/nature. That and I haven't had a chance to flesh out the flavour aspect of the Catkin.

this is homebrew, we haven't seen a lot of stuff.

[Nada Rakshasa]

Okay. I've gotten some more input from still other peoples and made some additional changes to the opening post. Looking for more input, please.