PDA

View Full Version : Questions from a ToB n00b...



Grynning
2008-04-10, 05:57 AM
So, I finally bought the damn thing, because I have finally conceded the point that 3.5 fighters don't do the job, and it looks like we may keep playing 3.5 for a while even after 4th comes out. Granted, I still dislike a lot of things about the book (which are mainly flavor-related) but if I'm going to use it, theres some things I want to clear up.

First of all, recovery. I'm not entirely clear on how it works. As I read it, it seems like for the most part, you can take a full round action and it just gives you back all of your readied maneuvers. Is this correct? I was under the impression that you can only use each maneuver once per encounter, but it would seem I was incorrect. Also, it seems you can switch out your ready maneuvers at any time by spending 5 minutes meditating, so essentially, you can have a different "spell list" every combat, rather than every day. If someone could break it down Barney style for me, that would be appreciated.

Secondly, the Crusader. It seems that this class is designed to be used with some kind of playing card drawing mechanic, and I just want to see if the way I envision it is correct. Say first level Crusader has 5 maneuvers. I would assign a card to each maneuver, and in the first round of combat, he would draw 2 at random, then draw another one each round, and discard them as he used them. When he used them up, when he recovered (by spending a full-round action, I assume, see above), he shuffles up the discard pile and draws 2, starting the process over. Is this basically right?

Finally, one of the PrC's, the Eternal Blade, has a class feature called "Armored Uncanny Dodge" and makes a big deal out of the fact that they can use it in medium or heavy armor. I re-read my PHB, and as far as I can tell, you already can, Uncanny Dodge doesn't care about armor. Is the class feature a mis-print? Was it supposed to be Evasion?

Thanks all.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-10, 06:05 AM
Recovery depends on your class. A SS recovers 1 maneuver with a full-round action. A Warblade takes 1 swift action to recover all of them, and a Crusader who has no maneuvers withheld at the end of a turn automatically loses all granted maneuvers and has maneuvers granted like he had just begun a new battle.

Your interpretation of the Crusader is correct, other than the use of a full-round action to recover.

The PrC thing I'm not sure about.

AslanCross
2008-04-10, 06:11 AM
First of all, recovery. I'm not entirely clear on how it works. As I read it, it seems like for the most part, you can take a full round action and it just gives you back all of your readied maneuvers. Is this correct? I was under the impression that you can only use each maneuver once per encounter, but it would seem I was incorrect. Also, it seems you can switch out your ready maneuvers at any time by spending 5 minutes meditating, so essentially, you can have a different "spell list" every combat, rather than every day. If someone could break it down Barney style for me, that would be appreciated.

A swordsage takes a full round action to regain ONE readied maneuver.
A warblade takes a swift action to regain ALL of his readied maneuvers.
If you have the Adaptive Style feat, you can take a full-round action to change all your readied maneuvers (thereby readying them).


Secondly, the Crusader. It seems that this class is designed to be used with some kind of playing card drawing mechanic, and I just want to see if the way I envision it is correct. Say first level Crusader has 5 maneuvers. I would assign a card to each maneuver, and in the first round of combat, he would draw 2 at random, then draw another one each round, and discard them as he used them. When he used them up, when he recovered (by spending a full-round action, I assume, see above), he shuffles up the discard pile and draws 2, starting the process over. Is this basically right?
1. At the start of your turn: Out of your five readied maneuvers, draw two of them. These are your granted maneuvers and are usable. The rest are withheld and are unusable.
2. At the end of every turn, draw one more. This becomes granted.
3. Any maneuvers you use are "discarded" and cannot be granted until you consume all of your currently-granted maneuvers.
3. Once you run out of cards to draw (everything is in the "discard pile"), start over. All of these go back to being withheld, except for the first two you draw.



Finally, one of the PrC's, the Eternal Blade, has a class feature called "Armored Uncanny Dodge" and makes a big deal out of the fact that they can use it in medium or heavy armor. I re-read my PHB, and as far as I can tell, you already can, Uncanny Dodge doesn't care about armor. Is the class feature a mis-print? Was it supposed to be Evasion?

Seems like an error, but I can't find any errata for ToB on the Wizards site. Even the Warblade's Uncanny Dodge/I. Uncanny Dodge can be used in medium or heavy armor. The biggest thing about this class feature, as far as I can tell, is the dependence on the spirit guide.

Grynning
2008-04-10, 06:22 AM
Alright, thanks very much for the assistance. Hopefully I'll get to use one of the classes soon to try all this out.

As a side note regarding the Crusader mechanics, now that I think about it, that mechanic would be really neat for a spell-casting class of some kind (like the Sorcerer, for instance). It would reduce the predictability of encounters, especially at higher levels, but it wouldn't nerf anyone too badly. Hmmm...well, at least ToB has flipped on my homebrew switch.

Swooper
2008-04-10, 07:55 AM
Good job spotting that Eternal Blade class feature... you should email customer service to ask them about it (if not, I will for curiosity's sake)

hewhosaysfish
2008-04-10, 10:10 AM
As a side note regarding the Crusader mechanics, now that I think about it, that mechanic would be really neat for a spell-casting class of some kind (like the Sorcerer, for instance). It would reduce the predictability of encounters, especially at higher levels, but it wouldn't nerf anyone too badly. Hmmm...well, at least ToB has flipped on my homebrew switch.

It is a little strange how the martial adept with the "Must be lawful" restriction has the most random, unpredictable mechanics...

Darrin
2008-04-10, 10:32 AM
It is a little strange how the martial adept with the "Must be lawful" restriction has the most random, unpredictable mechanics...

Actually, it's "can't be neutral".

Crusaders have the most effective recovery mechanic, since they don't need to spend an action to recover. Yes, the random thing is a bit annoying, but there are ways around that (Divine Recovery, anyone?).

A Crusader that takes the Adaptive Style feat may reset his readied maneuvers as a full-round action. He also resets his granted maneuvers, so if he has enough time he could keep resetting until he gets what he wants. For example, if he's out of combat and he needs Moutain Hammer to cut through an adamantine lock.

Note: if a Martial Adept PrC gives a Crusader another readied maneuver, it also increases his granted maneuvers by 1.

Keld Denar
2008-04-10, 12:23 PM
The feat Extra Granted Maneuver is amazing for a Crusader. Since you still have 5 maneuvers readied, and you now have 3 granted instead of 2, you only have 2 withheld. That means that at the end of every 3rd round of combat, you recover, as opposed to the end of every 4th round. This is both a blessing and a curse I've found through real play, and take a bit of work to fully utilize. Crusaders only have access to 3 schools, and of those 3 schools, most of the abilities are standard action strikes. Since you can only use 1 strike per round (due to being limited to 1 standard action per round) you often don't get through all of the cool things you want to do before its refresh time. Luckily, White Raven has a decent number of swift action abilities, the best being White Raven Tactics. Being able to spam WRT every 3-4 rounds on average is amazing, especially at level 5 when you first gain access to it.