Final Fantasy Rant

[Rockbird]

Rant follows here, enter at your own risk:
Oh, and SPOILER ALERT for FF7 and 9.

I love the FF series. Really, i do. But they seem to enjoy teasing me. For example: FF7. I start the game, i play the first mission, it rocks. It rocks hard. And then i keep playing, exploring midgard and having a good time, loving the feel of the setting when BAM! I'm outside. And instead of absolutely beautiful pieces of art as background there's ground that looks like lego blocks. Okay, it's necessary, i can live with that. But then it's some kind of spanish resort... the hell? :smallconfused: . They have this awesome fell and it all kinda just get's diluted.
HOWEVER! FF7 was still great and the change wasn't that bad overall.
Enter FF9.
When i begin playing this game i just die of joy. Castles, airships, Steampunkish technology, the feel, the characters... Vivi? Awesome. Steiner? Awesome. Freya? Awesome. Garnet? I can live with her. But then... Quina? Huh? Amarant? ...Yikes. And then it turns out my happy-go-lucky thief protagonist is some kind of outer space super-saiyan monkey :smallfurious: !? And some kind of aztec/mayan/whatever ruins, and a necron from FF1. WHY!? There was SO BOOPING MUCH POTENTIAL AWESOME AND THEY JUST THREW IT AWAY FOR SOME KIND OF SPACE WORLDDESTROYING MONKEY-CLONE PEOPLE AND AREFEIOÄHFELKFHÄEOBVÄOI=("/YER#O"RFE :smallfurious: :smallfurious: :smallfurious: .

[/rant]


So, i had to rant a bit. What? Stop looking at me like that! :smalleek:
Anyone agree? Disagree? Want to throw a pie at me?

[Tengu]

Well, FF7 is very like very near future, only with materia, monsters and people doing crazy stuff, so all kinds of places exist there - the whole world cannot be grim'n'gritty. You'll get used to it over time.

In FF9 though, I agree that the thing with Zidane being from a different world was kinda jarring, as well as the last boss appearing from nowhere, but the rest of the game had that wonderful retro, fairy-talish feeling to it. And it had some really, really great scenes (You Are Not Alone, for example).
Amarant might be a WoW troll with huge hair, but I dare anyone to say he's not cool.

[Ranis]

With some of the complete stretches involved with some of the other FF's storlines (3, 5, 8, 12, I'm looking at you...) 7+9's really aren't that bad.

And in my opinion, 7+9 are by far the best of the series. By. Far. FFX was a complete joke, and don't get me started on 8.

Seriously, where in the blazes did the final boss in FFX come from, the anus of existence? :smallconfused:

[Rutee]

Well, he had more setup then IX's final boss.

But no, I had no problem with the weird stuff in VII/IX (Except IX's final boss. Seriously wat?) Costa Del Sol actually made complete sense. It's a near future style world with a megacorporation. Why wouldn't there be a resort city? (Though resort + Golden Saucer may be overkill).

[Nerd-o-rama]

Personally, the thing that bugged me about FFVII wasn't so much the change in feel (though I did prefer the cyberpunk opening chapter, it may have gotten old after a whole game), it was switching from an awesome and believable evil megacorporation bad guy (with the best Quirky Miniboss Squad ever) to...whatever the boop Sephiroth was supposed to be. Rufus made a much better BBEG, although probably not as good of a boss.

FFIX was where I realized that I was just getting sick of Final Fantasy, so it bored me regardless.

Final Fantasy VI remains the best entry in the series (although FFV is the best in terms of gameplay, VI's plot and characters put it over the top).

[Triaxx]

Nine was great, and I was fully immersed in the storyline, right until the last moment when I fought... the final boss. I had to LOOK HIM UP to figure out who he was. I shouldn't have to do that.

That said, if the series was starting to bore you, you owe it to yourself to play nine again. It had a far more interesting story than 7 or 8. IE: No you must rescue this chick because the story says so instead of the half dozen or so other far more interesting and complex characters, both male and female.

[Cubey]

Last boss aside, the thing I disliked about FF IX were the White Mages. No, not because they're useless (they aren't), but I found them extremely annoying. Other characters are great - Zidane is a refreshingly cheerful change from the angsty loner protagonist, Steiner is very funny by being unfunny, Vivi is the most Woobie-like character EVER, Freya is strong-willed and my second favourite female character in a FF game (after Celes), Amarant is badass and Quina is... okay, I guess. But Garnet is weak, clingy and doesn't grow a spine even after she should (she had an Important Haircut for gods' sake!), while Eiko is a mouthful, selfish brat who fails at funny and torments Vivi, earning the hate of his fans (read: everyone).

Hell of a long sentence.

[Mirrinus]

Sure, Eiko had problems, but I wouldn't call Garnet clingy or anything. That sounds rather counter to her relationship to Zidane throughout most of the game (and is definitely something I'd attribute to Eiko instead). Personally, I liked Garnet; she had me ever since that cutscene at the beginning of the game where she flashed that smile before willfully falling off the wall to escape. I blame the old-school white mage robes. Classic. Although yes, her lack of confidence was annoying on disk 3.

I was never really too big of a fan of FF VII, and I'd agree that Rufus and all the members of the Turks were probably my favorite characters, but I'm not that angry that they stopped being villains, lol. VI was still the best, of course.

[Tempest Fennac]

I agree with Rutee about Costa Del Sol. If I'm honest, Quina was one of my favourite characters (I found him/her amusing, even though they had one of the most useless Blue Magic lists ever). While the last boss did pop up out of no where, I found magic being weaker then physical attacks from melee characters to be off-putting (FF6 got it right in this regard).

[Wreckingrocc]

:smallbiggrin: VIII was, hands down, the best. I liked 12, though the lack of character variety pissed me off pretty bad. Vaan and Penelo were the least likeable main characters ever. VIII was the same way, but there were no annoying characters, and the gameplay just felt so fun with the GFs and the Drawing and stuff.

[Tengu]

For me, the only reason why FF8 had no annoying characters was because Squall and Rinoa ascended above annoying. Least sympathetic RPG protagonist and the most irritating love interest ever!

[†Seer†]

*assumes a docile pose like Hana from Bleach* I like all the FF's... while 10 is my least favorite, I still love it.. I'll always love VII the most, probably because it was my first.

[Cainen]

FFVII was sort of like using cheap glue for something heavy - while it might work for a little bit, it will fall apart. It just so happened that leaving Midgar happened to be the breaking point, as the game suddenly lost a lot of atmosphere and completely forgot to keep giving me a reason to play the game. No more cyberpunk-ish atmosphere is seriously a game killer when that was virtually the reason I was playing in the first place.

FFVIII... well, that's a special case. I spent more time on Triple Triad than I did on the main game, and for good reason; I hated FFVIII's characters. With a passion. Some of the plot contrivances were just stupid, and there were plenty of other problems with the gameplay(though the character mechanics were considerably more interesting than they had any right to be).

FFIX had plenty of charm, but I still wasn't enamored with the lack of meaningful depth to the characters. The setting was considerably more appealing than the half-sci-fi, half-fantasy of FFVII/VIII, owing to it actually capitalizing on the strength of a steampunk setting. The gameplay was still no more interesting than filing my nails, and the story was yet another same old, same old.

[Seraph]

FFVIII started out epic and cinematic, but went gradually downhill the moment the in-game graphics began to render.

Final Fantasy VII was an okay game, but the "LOLSEPHIROTH" aura of the fandom gave the entire game a sour taste.

FFIX was quite good in many ways. the graphic style was a bit off, but that wasn't that distracting. the story was well done aside from the diabolus ex machina of an end boss, but the music made up for that battle. overall I thought it was better than VII and VIII, and gets most of the hate because of butthurt cloud fanboys who wanted a story in the same vein as VII and VIII and saw Kuja's appearance as a subtle jab at their sephiroth obsession.

VI's still the best, though.

[Terraoblivion]

Actually i quite like the visual styling of FFVII, though again mostly the parts relating in one way or another to the cyberpunk. This includes the decaying mining town and coal trains and the base in Junon, though i can see why the place where you leave Midgar can be jarring. It was kinda annoying with Sephiroth as the villain instead of Shinra which really was the more interesting group in the game.

I was rather split on FFVIII, though i never achieved the level of hatred of Squall others have had there were plenty of other reasons i disliked the game. Above all the screwiness that the junction system provided if you didn't spend time micromanaging everything and running the calculations, but also the utter collapse of the story into complete nonsense that didn't even pretend to make sense. The last accusation can with some justice also be aimed at FFVII, though it was more jarring in FFVIII to me. I liked a lot of the sets and the music though and this really counts for a lot for me.

As for FFIX i disliked the last boss like every other person on the planet, but otherwise didn't feel strongly either way about it. Lots of neat stuff, some annoying stuff but i honestly don't remember much other than a fairly cool atmosphere in many parts of the game.

Lastly i don't really get why people hate FFX so much. For one thing in its favor the plot didn't dissolve and was possible to follow right up until the end. The rather mystical setting and the open magicalness of most locations did it for me...i guess i am just a sucker for atmosphere and set pieces.

[Blayze]

"My name's Squall, pity me" didn't really endear me to him. I found myself wanting to yell "STOP WHINING!" at the screen more than a few times, especially when he had his little "People have to help me out all the time... I don't know what to do... Help me, somebody... Oh no, what did I just say?" moment.

Cloud wasn't much better at times, but at least he got stuff done.

To be honest, I'm a fan of the older FF games, 5 and 3/6 especially.

Then again, I also like Mystic Quest, so there's no accounting for taste.


Lastly i don't really get why people hate FFX so much.

Tidus.

[Ranis]

Lastly i don't really get why people hate FFX so much.

1. Sphere Grid.
2. Shamelessly cliche and predictible love story, moreso than any other FF game.
3. Sphere Grid.
4. The storyline is good until the end, during which case it shats all over itself like a newborn puppy with diahrea.
5. Sphere Grid.
6. Weapon creation system was actually neccessary to have weapons good enough to see the end of the game, and you practically had to have a strategy guide to make the anywhere near decent ones.
7. Sphere Grid.
8. Khimari.
9. Luke, I am your father. *whoopheeesshh*whoopheeesshh*
10. Sphere Grid.

[Inhuman Bot]

I havent played 9 so could someone explain the endboss to me?

[Seraph]

I havent played 9 so could someone explain the endboss to me?

you kill the primary antagonist. then Satan comes to beat you up.

[Ranis]

Basically during the entire game, you chase down Zidane's evil clone from the alternate world that they both came from. The fourth disc's dungeon is a place called Memoria, and it's a place made entirely out of memories. You catch up to Zidane's clone and beat him, and some completely random, unknown force knocks out the party. Upon waking up, they meet...something. He's something akin to the creator and the destroyer of memories and life, and he's the second-hardest boss in the game, next to the final hidden one in Chocobo's Paradise. He's completely random, didn't make sense at all in the context of the game, and many people think that he's basically something that was thrown in at the end of the programming when Squeenix realized that Kuja wasn't an appropriately difficult final boss.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Of course, there's the theory (probably Squeenix's intent) that the final boss is
Chaos from Final Fantasy I. Which doesn't really explain why he shows up at the end, but at least it's something. I'm sure someone who figured out the trainwrecks of plotting that were Final Fantasy I and IX can explain how this makes the two games prequels/sequels exactly, but the point is that there's absolutely no connection with FFIX's major plot.

Oh, and the "unknown force" that wipes the party out is Kuja going all kamikaze-Trance on you, or so it appeared to me.

[Mirrinus]

Regarding FF IX's final boss, my personal favorite theory for just what he is can be found here (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197338/36121). It's a pretty comprehensive theory that ties together a lot of stuff in the game, such as the Iifa Tree's existance, Garland's plot, and Kuja's final attack on the party, into a working idea of just what Necron is. Although, a boss that requires this much explanation to understand still probably isn't the most well-written idea.

And this wouldn't be the first time I've heard that FF I is tied to FF IX. After all, both feature a character named "Garland", and some people think Garland's FF IX dialogue hints that he may be the same guy.

[tyckspoon]

Re: Necron
The most sensible theory I've seen is that Necron is the active mechanism of the Iifa tree, the thing responsible for holding back the souls of Gaia and letting those of Terra replace them and what would eventually be responsible for fusing the planets. Read long analysis here if desired. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197338/36121)

[Tempest Fennac]

I liked FF 10 a lot of I'm honest (the upgrade system was pointless except for with Kimari due to the other characters having clearly defined roles). I got bored with FF 12 relatively quickly due to the ridiculously slow combat system, the lack of variety with upgrading characters, and the plot was ridiculous. I didn't class Squall as being a bit irritating, but Rinoa was (especially when Seifer kidnaps her at the end of disk 3 dispite him having no HPs).

[Khanderas]

FFX was and is a good game, but what makes me fail at finishing this game, is the sphere system.
There is a perfect path somewhere, and I refuse to spend sphere movments until I find it. Empty slots ? Yeah I can fill it with stuff... better wait until I have those +4 spheres to fill them with so I dont miss them later.
In the end it is too much and while I do eventually take the steps forward, but I don't feel the JOY for levelling up... I'm too busy lamenting the things I miss getting.
Thats why I loved the system from FF9 (and FFX-2). Wear the item, the skill can be used directly. If you wear it for enough battles its yours permanently. Every character has its strenghts and weaknesses, predefined. That I like. In FFX-2 you could change roles as much as you wanted, but the skills in the different classes could be learned and youknow you didnt sacrifice anything from gaining them.

As for the angst of Squall. Well he was a jerk and I played the cardgame with more zeal then folloing that ratbastards story. And collecting GF's.

[banjo1985]

I have to admit to loving 8,9 and 10, despite their problems. I couldn't get into 7, and people tend to look at me like I'm a mental patient when I say I prefer the other three to it.

FF7 - Good start, interesting characters in Cloud and Tifa. Barret annoyed me as much as Quina ever did. Plot was too slow and stopped me from persevering with it.

FF8 - The draw and junction system was very poor, making you save magic rather than use it. However, I loved the story and liked the characters. I have to admit, I don't really know where Griever came from at the end.

FF9 - Senseless final boss, but the best storyline of any FF game and some nice characters too. Steiner, Vivi and Zidane were very good, but Quina, Amarant and Dagger were annoying to a fault. It also has the best skill learning system of any FF game I've played. In Ozma, it also has a truely hideous super-boss.

FF10 - Another decent story, and some okay characters. I don't share the hatred of Tidus that everyone else seems to, though I wouldn't go as far as to say I liked him. Auron, Lulu and Wakka were good though. Best combat of the four games, but the ending was pretty underwhelming and the game led you by the nose the whole way through. I want exploration!

FF10-2 - Don't. Get. Me. Started.

My opinions, though the opposite of most people I guess.

[Tempest Fennac]

I'd managed to forget about FF X-2 (thanks for reminding me). That was fun gameplay-wise, but everything else was annoyingly camp, as was the storyline (I thought 10 had one of the best). FF 7 is the first one I ever played, but I think 9 may be my favourite one out of all of them. Admittedly, 8 was really good, but the junctioning system annoyed me due to being so elaborate while eliminating differences between the characters.

[Dihan]

FFVI and IX are my two favourites. I like the characters and the story (until the end of FFIX), and I like how each character is unique and can't take over the jobs of other chracters (read: FFX).

Also, Kefka rules!

[DeathQuaker]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the beginning of FFVII, in the city and it being kind of cyberpunkish.

I didn't mind the outside world design so much as I just kind of saw it as a place to get from here to there, but yeah, the shift in feel in the next few places you had to go to bugged me, and then I just got frustrated with random encounters and bad dialogue.

I gave up after trying to find Vincent, because there was no way I could defeat the monster in that area and I wasn't going keep reloading when the nearest save point was miles away. By that point the general gameplay had frustrated me to the point that I stopped playing it. Never finished the game to this day. If I try again I'll probably have to start over beause I've completely forgotten what I'm supposed to be doing, and yet I have no desire to go through all that I'd gone through to get there.

FFIX, on the other hand, I did really enjoy (despite irritating random encounters) and, I'm not sure why, but the space-monkey thing didn't bug me (maybe because I thought of them as space tieflings).

Quina was stupid as heck, but I just never used him.

[Cainen]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the beginning of FFVII, in the city and it being kind of cyberpunkish.

Who didn't? The dialogue was mediocre, but the area design(sans the part with the trains, dammit) was stellar.


I didn't mind the outside world design so much as I just kind of saw it as a place to get from here to there, but yeah, the shift in feel in the next few places you had to go to bugged me, and then I just got frustrated with random encounters and bad dialogue.

Be glad you stopped before the game ended. I didn't.


FFIX, on the other hand, I did really enjoy (despite irritating random encounters) and, I'm not sure why, but the space-monkey thing didn't bug me (maybe because I thought of them as space tieflings).

Annah isn't really the definitive tiefling. :smallwink:

[Tempest Fennac]

I never get why people hate Quina so much. In regards to vincent, Lost Number is much easier to kill if you use a magic attack to drop his HPs below half (that morphs him into a form which uses magic rather then ridiculously powerful physical attacks).

[DeathQuaker]

Annah isn't really the definitive tiefling. :smallwink:

There are tieflings other than Annah? :smalleek:

:smallwink:

Seriously, I realize that, but it's better than thinking of tailed people as space monkeys. :smalltongue:


I never get why people hate Quina so much.

I don't hate him, per se, but I didn't like the character design and he didn't add anything memorably useful to the story.

And what I DO hate is the concept of "Blue Magic" or anything similar, where you have no powers unless you steal them from other monsters. The concept is fine, except that the method seems to be totally random--you have to eat 5 of these guys or one of these, and these guys' powers you can't have at all, etc. The game itself provides absolutely no clues to how to use this ability usefully, so you either waste attacks trying to see if you can get abilities and go through a whole lot of unnecessary trial-and-error, or in order to use the character you have to sit with a walktrhough next to you and check things off, which I have no patience or desire to do--not to mention it's rippingly BAD game design if you can't essentially play the game without the guide (see GuideDangIt at TVTropes).

And especially when there are equally if not more useful people I can take along in my party, why bother with him?


In regards to vincent, Lost Number is much easier to kill if you use a magic attack to drop his HPs below half (that morphs him into a form which uses magic rather then ridiculously powerful physical attacks).

I know that's the general gist, but I couldn't quite hack it for whatever reason. I probably could get it if I reloaded, but I tire quickly of reloading and having to walk back to the same freaking spot.

If I'm bored, I may one day go back and try it again, but right there's too many other games I enjoy way more to go back to it.

((And as an aside, there are good JRPGs out there, but I would play more of them--and play the ones I did like more enthusiastically--if the majority eliminated random encounters and traded save points for a "save anytime except combat" concept.))

[Rutee]

IT's funny to me since I'm a blue magic lover and /still/ didn't like Quina. :P

[Nerd-o-rama]

Fortunately, JRPGs are gradually, barely, irritatingly slowly moving away from the idiocy that is random encounters and save points. Actually, fixed encounters were done as far back as Chrono Trigger (it didn't have save anywhere, though), and both were used in the LUNAR remakes (which was one reason why they were very easy). More recent fixed-encounter games would include the very underrated Baten Kaitos games and, of course, almost every Western RPG, particularly ones descended from the Infinity Engine games.

With FFXII having fixed, or at least visible, encounters, hopefully every other JRPG maker will start ripping that off, since the majority of them just copy FF or Dragon Quest/Warrior anyway.

[Quxelopqr]

My top 3 ffs would be 6, 9, 7.

6 is sheer awesomeness in everything that isn't Gau.

9 had a likeable main character for everyone who was sick of Cloud/Squall's angst (at least Cecil had reason to be angsty, and got over it before the end of the game). Zidane is my favorite main character of a ff game. Steiner and Vivi are also awesome, and Freya was cool simply because she was the female equivilent to Kain from 4. Agreed on Garnet and Eiko being annoying. The last boss, while out of nowhere, was pretty epic to me, since I had few items and was about to die when Vivi's meteor (with the last of his mp) did 9999 damage and killed it. Ozma was also the hardest optional boss ever and I loved the Chocobo treasure hunt.

The thing that made me mad with 7 was 'Cloud's Past'. This could be because after going through almost all of the meaningless dialogue, my power blinked and I had to do it over (I never save the game when I should). The rest of the game was pretty decent until the team's total reliance on Cloud towards the end (if only Cloud were here? How 'bout I take Tifa, Barret, and Yuffie and go own Seph), character wise I liked Barret, Red XIII and Yuffie. Vincent is the explanation behind my name Quxelopqr as well (me and a friend picking random letters to name him while up late at night was awesome).

8 I only made halfway into disk 2 before I got angry at wasting my time when Legend of Legaia was available, so I never finished and can't say anything about.

10 was decent (blitzball aside). I wasn't the biggest fan of the sphere grid either. 10-2 is best summed up in a Dueling Analogs strip (the fate of Spira's at stake? slumber party!!).

12 I'm about halfway through so I can't say much, although it doesn't hold my interest very well since the main character's annoying (his brother was waaay cooler and he wasn't in the game very long).

[Mx.Silver]

Fortunately, JRPGs are gradually, barely, irritatingly slowly moving away from the idiocy that is random encounters and save points.

In fairness, save points were originally something of a necessity back in the earlier days. They just kind of got stuck as after a while everyone just got used to them. Random encounters can just sod-off and eviscerate themselves though.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, so were the random encounters, or at least they were a valid memory-saver so you could fit ludicrously long and complex things like FFI onto an NES cart. Random Encouters and save points have both been relics since the 16-bit era, though, and should be put aside. I mean, we can have graphics that look realer than reality, but we can't see the effing enemies? What the crap?

Well...maybe save points are good for increasing challenge, but it's kinda Fake Difficulty.

[Terraoblivion]

Kinda fake difficulty? I would say it is more like exactly fake difficulty

[Nerd-o-rama]

It's something I'd do as a self-imposed challenge if I felt like it, like not battle-saving in Super Robot Wars (which I will never not do, by the way, at least not when I'm trying to get skill points. Stupid runaway bosses...), but it shouldn't be imposed by the game itself.

[Rutee]

I really just don't mind random encounters or save points at all. They're literally nothing to me, in general (unless Random Encounters are at an offensively high rate, like Tales of Phantasia or Skies of Arcadia's world map). Genuinely could not care less. But I'm weird like that.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I mostly have a hate on for them because I finished Skies of Arcadia recently, and loved all of it except the random encounters.

Incidentally, Ayla was my favorite character, not because she was the most interesting, but because she could just constantly flamethrower those suckers.

[Rutee]

Well, yes, Skies of Arcadia will engender an incredibly strong hate for them at least temporarily. I prefer respawning, visible encounters most of all. I dislike static dungeons (Baldur's Gate, for instance), because resting everywhere + static dungeon = I can nova every fight if I feel like it. My preferred save system goes to Tales of Eternia. You can save any time, so save points act more as restoration tools and check points (When you load, you go back to the last save point, locationwise, with all the items, exploration, and stats of wherever you saved it)

[Tengu]

I really just don't mind random encounters or save points at all. They're literally nothing to me, in general (unless Random Encounters are at an offensively high rate, like Tales of Phantasia or Skies of Arcadia's world map). Genuinely could not care less. But I'm weird like that.

I agree with this statement, and provide Earthbound as a further example - it doesn't have random encounters per se, but the battles quickly start feeling like a drudge because everything goes soooo slooooow and there are no animations barring special attacks (I hate when you cannot see your characters on the battle screen, despite them being visible on the main one). The only thing that keeps it fun is constant supply of new, amusing enemies - yet, with the way this game handles combat, fighting an animated lamp is fun for the first couple of times, but is just boring when you do it for a twentieth time.

[Tempest Fennac]

The ironic thing about Zidane is that I found him to be the most irritating protaghonist due to how upbeat he was, but Garnet and Eiko didn't bother me (Cloud and Squall did have valid reasons behind their personality types).

[bosssmiley]

VII - Played it, loved it. Lost weeks of life to that game. Cloud in drag was win. Wutai theft is infuriating. Chocobo breeding programme is just so wrong. Eggy haet Ruby weapon.

VIII - Not as epic in scope and scale as 7. Card game was good. Junction system overcomplex. Ballroom scene on disk 1 made all the girlies "squeeeee!!!"

IX thru XI - not played. Couldn't comment

XII - PoV character (+ his croney Penelo) are boring cyphers summed up by Princess hooker skirt (http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/12-ashe-a.jpg) asking "Why are you adventuring?" "Uh... Bored I guess Beavis." in the masked bird-moose-man village.
The Licence system was b0rked.
Technicks were dull.
Gambits let you not sweat the small stuff. :smallcool:
Quickenings were fun ("Quick! Spam natural disasters at them 'til they die!").
The Moogle-portation system rocked ("Kupo!").
Cockney-trices and hostage-taking Cactaurs are hilarious.
Vendortrash bazaar system had me tearing my hair out.
Oh, and Balthier (http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/12-balflear-a.jpg) is SUPERIOR! :smallcool:

Balthier: "I'll take this until we find something more valuable with which you can pay me for my time and trouble." (ganks Ashe's wedding ring)
Balthier: "I didn't want to be an Imperial Judge..." :smalleek:
Balthier: "It is the duty of the leading man to save the world." :smallcool:

This pic:

caption: "Return my pimp hat this instant, you unsavoury varlet!"
http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/12-group2-a.jpg

Favourite? Toss up between 7 (right game at the right time) or 12 (just for the manly backstoried, magnificent bastardly (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard) awesome that is Balthier).

[Oregano]

I'm quite a big fan of Final Fantasy but my interest in the series ir starting to decrease rapidly, I enjoyed all of the series up to ten, then it starts to get sucky.

Here's some of the reasons:
FFX-2 : Pure fan service, not my type of game, did enjoy the different classes specifically Dark Knight, Berserker and Alchemist but for half the time it seemed like a dress-up game.

FFXI - Haven't played, looks good but I'm not really interested in MMOs, I'd rather play on a standard multiplayer game.

FFXII - Annoying characters(Vaan and Penelo), regurgitated ideas and designs from past games, I just can't get over how every character and plotpoint borrows from an earlier Final Fantasy, combat system took from the MMO(not a good idea in my opinion); there was some good points however Basch and Balthier were both pretty cool, The grid were weird but I liked them.

Then the other week I got both Dragonquest Monsters: Joker and Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings. These two games have probably made me lose interest totally. First both are made by Square Enix and are RPGs for the DS.

FFXII: RW is an appauling game, horrible graphics(2D pixelated sprites), the controls don't particular work well(plus all you can do is move or attack) neither tactical nor an RPG, boring and well too easy.

DQM:J on the other hand is made of pure win, fully 3D cell-shaded graphics(Actually the same as DQ VIII), good use of both screens for displaying stats, controls are simple and the same as most RPGs, it's got classic RPG gameplay in the Style of Pokemon(minus Random encounters), emmersive and difficult providing challenges even to an experienced RPG player.

In conclusion, I'm looking forward to DQ IX and the remake of FF IV(if it gets released in UK anyway) but not the further installments of Final Fantasy, may very well play and try them.

[Blayze]

6 is sheer awesomeness in everything that isn't Gau.

You're right. Gau was *super* awesome.

[Arameus]

Final Fantasy is the undisputed MASTER of "I'm the REAL bad guy!" What's odd is that the best games in the series are the ones which don't do this. I can't speak for II, III, or XII, but the ones so far that have a 'twist' big bad have really put me off. Although IV did this, and was awesome, they do this again in VIII, IX, and X, that I know of. These are the worst in the series. You go through the better part of VIII fighting Edea, enduring the nonsensical, even insulting plot twists along the way. ("WHAT? WE'RE ALL FROM THE SAME ORPHANAGE?! AND EDEA WAS OUR MATRON?! AND CID'S HER HUSBAND?!?! ZOH MAH GAWD!!!) Then you hear that Ultimecia has actually been controlling everything all along. They pull the ridiculous, unexplained (and apparently unexplainable) concept of time compression out of their ass to provide something vaguely more original than tying a lady to traintracks and twirling your mustache. You really only get to see Ultimecia once in the game, before you engage her in EPIC BATTLE, which dragged on and on forever and ever with endless scripting and absolutely no challenge whatsoever. I killed her BEFORE SHE WAS DONE WITH HER EVIL SPEECH!!! Really no surprise after taking Omega down first try; all you need to sleepwalk through this game is a double-digit IQ, which is apparently more than what it took to make this game. Apparently, though, time compression really does have a pretty simple effect: it makes for an utterly meaningless abstract ending movie showcasing the power of love apparently granting the power to teleport through time and space. Then you have a party. Or something. MOVING QUICKLY ONWARD.

Then you come to IX. HERE's a real winner. :smallsigh: After adopting an insultingly childish feel not present in any other final fantasy game to date, they throw some of the most derivative, mindless characters at you that they've ever come up with. They don't even wait until you care about the characters (like that ever happens) to start spouting such literary gold as "To hell with looks. It's what's inside that counts!" And that's before they add to your party Quina Quale, a Qu. Qu are slothful, gluttonous, androgynous retards who live in swamps and eat frogs. I am NOT making this up. Then of course you have the rebellious magical princess who turns out to be the fateful orphan of destiny in addition to being the cocky, worthless hero's love interest. TWO boring, worn-out characters wrapped up in one! We lose TWICE with Garnet! She eventually changes her name to Dagger, but know what? Out of spite I kept her named Garnet, leading to a game-long sense of smugness on my part and a lot of nonsensical dialogue involving her having to go by her secret identity which is her real name which is not actually her real name, which is in the summoner village. Because guess what? You get not one but TWO characters that are the last of a race of people! HOW ORIGINALZ!!! Invoking the stereotype twice in the same party! The other members are equally valueless, but the plot eventually takes your mind off your party. Once you travel to the alternate dimension where the protagonist was made, things REALLY take off because your fight against the nondescript, motivationless villain really takes on new meaning. Nope, wait... still meaningless! Then you get to the end and guess what? Necron pops up and shouts "I'M the REAL villain!" I read Necron was an afterthought as far as game development went. It shows. And let's not even get started on the terrible pacing issues; by the time I got to disc 2, I still had character levels in the single digits, and I was doing just fine against my enemies. Wow.

And, of course, there's X. X is a marvellous example of a process I have dubbed Kojiming.

Kojiming: Koh-jee-meeng; noun; [Kojima - ing]; To disgrace an otherwise brilliant game with a horrendous plot, a la Hideo Kojima and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty.

For the most part, I really, really liked the way X played. The Sphere Grid was an inventive, effective system that really lent itself well to replacing the standard experience level system. The specialized roles and character switching in battles added a lot of depth and kept you on your toes. But X suffered from the same critical flaws that crippled both games preceding it: bad characters and bad plot. The main character, Tidus (pronounced Tee-doos), is always and forever the biggest tool ever to take the commanding role of a Final Fantasy title. His appearance makes you think he's a member of a Hot Topic professional soccer team. Which might appeal to some of you, come to think of it. But the other characters are, for the most part, complete stereotypes that compile what amounts to a Final Fantasy/Dawson's Creek crossover. There's Yuna, the tragic beauty whom the hero loves even though their love is doomed since she has to give her life to save the world; Lulu, an honest-to-goodness goth sorceress; Rikku, an apparent reincarnation of Selphie, whose sugary-sweet, hyper, completely brain-dead parade through the game really make you wonder how she wasn't slain and roasted on a spit after a long airship ride turned sour; Auron, one of several characters who turns out to actually be dead and the requisite overpowered, silent mentor; Kimahri, ANOTHER silent, proud warrior who has the added bonus of being either the team mascot or the team furry, depending on how much time you spend on the Internet. And, last, Wakka, the zero-IQ musclehead who literally plays the Jock role as the captain of a sports team. This awful stillbirth of a cast embarks on a ridiculous plot bringing you such trite, awful moments as the realization that half the people running Spira are undeparted dead people, all-too-many encounters against a recurring enemy serving no purpose but to kidnap Yuna and attempt to marry her (You must... MARRY ME!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!) as well as to provide periodic boss fights, since it would be too terribly difficult to come up with something topical to fight instead. But don't worry, he's not the only bad guy. The big bad is actually an evil mutant whale named Sin, because naming it anything else wouldn't be in keeping with the game's finely-tuned allegory amounting to a blatant slur against organized religion, with a theocracy led by zombies intentionally keeping Spira locked in an endless spiral of destruction for no conceivable motivation except that killing the people releases them from their painful lives, a motivation that I've never heard before anywhere. Oh wait.... Other than that, not much goes on except finding out that the main villain Sin IS TIDUS DRUNKEN, ABUSIVE FATHER! FROM 1,000 YEARS IN THE PAST!!! NOOOO!!!! But it's okay because Tidus forgives him. Despite his lifelong, completely justified hatred of him. Ahem. Besides, he wasn't the real villain anyway. Sin is actually the living armor of some sort of goofy jellyfish hand thing called Yu Yevon, which is... wait for it.... THE REAL VILLAIN! The game's ending would probably seem more epic if it had any trace of difficulty. The penultimate boss (a huge red devil summon version of Tidus' dad) went down literally in one hit. Likewise, all the summons Yu Yevon throws at you went down in single hits as well. Yu Yevon itself actually proved rather troublesome; it took TWO hits. So the world is saved FOREVARS and Yuna didn't have to die! Who would have seen that coming! but don't get ahead of yourself thinking the ending is stupid or derivative; there's no happily ever after marriage because guess what? Tidus WASN'T EVEN REAL. *Twilight Zone theme plays* The gameplay actually did have one facet I took issue with: as characters traverse the sphere grid, they become more and more multitalented, which was good for them, but destroyed the concept of unique roles that made the team feel diverse and specialized. Furthermore, Kimahri, intended as the ultimate multirole character, instead became the ultimate tool in my party because I never could find any use for him. That, though, is more my problem than the game's; I've never favored Blue Magic characters.

Well, that said, I had a blast playing all three of these games. I'd highly recommend all of them.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Good, Arameus. Goooood. Let the hate flow through you...

Seriously, I only agree with about half to 2/3 of what you said, but damn was that epic.

[F.H. Zebedee]

My ratings on all the FF games I've played?

FF7: Setting? Eh, I'm not into the whole thing. The world just felt a little too... dessicated, I guess. I just never cared for any setting where there's so little greenery. Oddly enough, my favorites were all the hated characters (Moins Barret. He was just irritating the whole time), and I can't stand Cloud, Vincent, or Aerith for the life of me. (Tifa, beyond her massive hentai career, is actually rather tolerable.) The characters also suffered from being moreso the sum of their materia than actual characters in combat. Want to make somebody a Thief? Well, you don't go on using your THIEF to do it, you just thief materia somebody. Sigh...
I'll agree on that the game was great fun up until you get thrown through the setting changes. That was just too jarring. And Sephiroth is the most overrated villain EVER. Without fan community? Probably around a 7/10. Solid game, but considerably less fun than a few others in the day. With fans? 5/10. Most annoying fan community on earth, and one of the most overrated games ever (Only Golden Sun and certain aspects of Halo have ever gotten this overrated.).

FF8: More likable setting, and incredibly improved graphics. The Draw system was fun, the battles themselves were fairly fun... There's only a few quibbles I had. Number one? Out of five gamers in my local circle of people who lend eachother games, NONE could find a functional Disc 2. They'd always lock up at some point. For some reason, the quality of this game's discs were in the toilet. I've had more read errors with it, than with the others put together. The cast? Crap shoot. Some likable sometimes, others never likable, EVER. I actually found Squall and Quistis thoroughly enjoyable, although Rinoa, Selphie, and Xel (was that his name? I never cared enough to bother) all made me rather irrate. I wish that Edea had stayed in the party, as she was very fun. Finally, the storyline? Enjoyable, though it liked to go off on tangents and loops and such. The ending sucked, but the rest was pretty solid.
Now, my main gameplay beef? Junctions were crap. They took away ALL individuality you had, barring limit breaks. It made the characters not carry into combat, which was just a pain... It made it too easy to break the game, either towards weakness, or towards borken wins. Overall? An 8/10. Not nearly as overrated, though it had a few flaws.

FF9: By far my favorite. It remedied almost every issue I had with the earlier ones. Limit Breaks (Trance) was easy to achieve and utilize more than once, characters all remained very distinctive, in and out of combat, the leveling/skills were hard to break... It was overall, a very fun game.

(BTW, the Level thing? Designed so you can do a Level 1 run through the game, in theory. They put a lot of little things in that'd allow you to make it far more challenging.

And Quina's blue magic was HARD to use, but very strong in the right situations. I'd argue it the most broken thing in the game, between the Auto-Grand Dragon kill of powerleveling, and the auto-9999 Frog Drop that you had to Golden Saucer up.)

It wasn't a perfect game, but it still is one of my favorites. 9/10

One could say that I'm rather biased though, as I tend to like games with smaller fandoms for the most part.

[tyckspoon]

I prefer the FF 7/X model of Limit Break. It lets you save and plan the use of your breaks for fights where they're actually needed (unlike IX, which often has your Trances triggered by random encounters that you don't need the power to win) and makes sure you can't use 'em instead of regular attacks (VIII made it entirely too easy to spam Limits; just one of the several things that makes breaking that game a total non-challenge.) The VII limits are also generally all useful, unlike some of the Trance changes.. it's especially annoying to have Zidane go into Dyne and only be able to do damage or too much damage when you wanted to use one of his specials.

Personally, I would say the most broken ability in IX is Zidane's Thievery. It starts off just useful, assuming you've been stealing regularly, and easily gets to be the best damage to MP spent ratio without having to do any excessive levelling or monster-grinding like you have to do for Frog Drop (formula based in part on Quina's level; in order to get 9999 damage from it, you have to hit level 99 or spend forever catching frogs well past the point where you've gotten all the rewards for doing so) and Dragon Crest.

Or maybe just doing all the Chocobo Treasure hunts. Takes a while, but you can get all the end-game equipment and abilities partway through disc 2/3.. although if you're like me and can't stand not learning all the abilities, you end up not wearing the stuff because you have to keep downgrading to learn stuff.

[Cubey]

The second I've read in Arameus' post that the FF IV's plot twist was awesome, I knew I'd disagree with at least 75% of what he has written (because really, it's as much of a totally un-foreshadowed deus ex machina as Ultimecia or Necron, with the only difference being that it's the first time a FF game did something like that). HOWEVER, the post was very funny so I give my thumbs up.

Zebedee - just like tyckspoon, I disliked the limit system of FF 9 a lot. Too random and rarely appears in situations when it makes a difference, scripted situations aside. On the issue of variety in party members - I agree that it's not fun when every of your characters can do the same thing, and modifying their specialisations is only a materia/junction change away. However, that way it ensures that you put whatever characters you want in your party, and not the ones that the gameplay forces you to. For example, going around without a healer is generally a bad idea, and since both healers in FF IX are very disliked by me (as in, "strangle her" dislike levels), I had an option of either suffering unbearable characters or unbearable battles. That's not the case in FF 7 - if I don't like Aerith and still need a healer, I take her healing materia, give it to Yuffie and kick Aerith out of the party.
The best way to handle this is something like FF 6, where all of your characters could learn magic but their non-magic options and stats still made each one seperate and unique as a combatant, and not only personality-wise.
EDIT: Or even better yet, Chrono Trigger, where the characters' wide skill variety (4 out of 7 could heal for example) and intrinsic awesomeness ensures that you will have a team that kicks arse both battle-wise and personality-wise no matter who you choose to be in the team for that moment.

[Jibar]

My biggest complaint with Final Fantasy: Tidus.
Oh how I hate you Tidus.
Hate you so freakin' much.
However, there is one specific part of Tidus I would to announce my hate for.

His name.

Arameus gave it a go, but the big problem is his name is actually unpronouncable.
Since they let you rename him if you want, nobody in the game actually says it.
Since then, I have heard at least four different pronounciations of his name, both in-game (Kingdom Hearts, then contradicted in Kingdom hearts II), and out (where my favourite pronounciation is Big Ball Of ****).
Seriously. Why the hell did you let them rename characters in such a plot focused game!? It ruins immersion and makes Cat-Muffins curse dammit!

[Rutee]

Tidus is an Ainu word. It is in fact pronounceable, the deal is that it's just part of an incredibly obscure language. So you can't even expect the Americans to get it right with help.

That said, I agree. I HATE it when renaming characters is responsible for NEVER HEARING THE CHARACTER'S NAME SPOKEN. Just don't let us rename them. It's pointless choice.

[theMycon]

You're right. Gau was *super* awesome.

I never got the hatred for Gau.

Sure, after meeting him, he doesn't have the great lines most of the party does. And he can be the most frighteningly unbalanced character in the game (Low-level games on cartridge are possible because of him. He is your powerhouse until Sabin gets Bumrush), but he doesn't have to be. He & Mog are the blue mages that involve tactical forethought, instead of just "let me do the same thing over and over." However, he has so much more flexibility than the others.

[Tengu]

I also don't get the Gau hate - to be strong mechanically, you just need some proper Rages for him, many of which you can acquire soon after getting him and will remain viable till the end of the game. As far as the actual character goes... he's funny. Why do people always seem to hate the comic relief characters? Stuck-up Darker And Edgier fanboys who cannot stand a milligram of humour in their game, I say.

[Oregano]

I personally thought Gau was cool, the whole feral motif just appeals to me though.

Cait Sith is a strange case for me, I absolutely hated him in Final Fantasy VII and never used him but I was ecstatic when you got to play him in Dirge of Cerberus and found the character colourful, intriging(sp?) and funny in both DoC and Advent Children; maybe I just hated the big stupid stuffed mog part of him.

[Tengu]

The only reason why I didn't use Cait Sith as much as other characters was because I was always learning new limit breaks for my characters.

[Arameus]

Hehe... Maybe I'll do a post on FF VII . I could go on for pages and pages about the thousand million little things I hate about what is unquestionably my favorite game of all time. Seriously, I may finally succeed in permanently frying all the color out of my hair from unbridled vehemence. (Gray is my color. I'll look cooler as a pilot. I can only hope that Tetsuya Nomura keeps getting more and more creative control, because he alone could really push me over the edge.)

Truly, I really liked IV. Now, when I say IV, I mean IV, not II. I played FF II for the SNES in the mid '90's and me 'n' Tony really liked it; we were suckers for RPG's and still are. But we somehow skipped a large part of the plot (?!?!? A glitch, maybe?!?!) , and we never finished it because, as we found out, level 32 is simply not strong enough for two little kids to successfully fight Zeromus. And when I got older and got to play IV as part of Chronicles, I realized how far superior (and more genuine) the version was.

IV was the most (successfully) mature, emotionally engaging Final Fantasy made until VII. The plot was pretty standard; the reformed dark knight is nothing new, but we hold classic games to different standards; if The Legend of Zelda can keep scoring the No. 1 spot on so many all-time lists, I think we can give this title a break. What was really impressive to me is how far ahead of its time the game was in term of its graphics, execution, and script.Final Fantasy is still the leading name in RPG's, but to see how far ahead of the pack it was back in its heyday is inspiring.

One thing I appreciated was that the game, despite clearly being made for younger people, never patronized the audience. (II had. It had, a la Mystic Quest, assumed that Americans were mentally unfit to play a 'real' RPG.) Things like frequent honorable suicides (I count six, even if they DO all get better), genocide, slaughter of civilians (by the protagonist), having to fight (and kill) one of your character's mutated parents, and the protagonist's journey to reformation are all much more than one would expect both from that era and for that age group.

Speaking of the protagonist's reformation, it's really not as humdrum as others of its ilk. Early in the game, Cecil slaughters and takes prisoner many of the peaceable citizens of Mysidia, choosing his loyalty over his trepidation. And, although he is tricked into doing so, he releases monsters on a village for the purpose of slaying every man, woman, and child. This, after unknowingly slaying one of the villagers by defeating her summon, who of course turns out to be the mother of the young Rydia. All of this, coupled with his decision to take Rydia under his wing, his banishment from his kingdom, and having to turn to the very people of Mysidia for forgiveness and redemption is much more than the typical heel-face turn that usually happens either at the very beginning of a game, if to the protagonists, or usually to an over-the-top cartoonishly evil secondary character near the climax.

Although the whole 'Golbez, the villain, is actually my brother being controlled by THE REAL VILLAIN IN THE MOON'S CORE' thing was pushing it, this game is, after all, just a little younger than I am. Released in '91, I would have been a year old at the time. It was already a classic by the time I played it as II on the SNES. Fortunately, the game only really offers up one universally hated character, pretty good for a Final Fantasy actually. The plot takes you through pretty varied territory, and is pretty good at providing a clear purpose without spoonfeeding you everything. Besides that, the bosses and enemies are varied and interesting, and th gameplay is exceptional for its time and still holds up today.

Now of course there's the nostalgia factor to be considered, but here's something to be considered: I didn't even play II. I watched my big brother, the obdurate controller hog, play some of it. When I played it as IV just a few years ago, my gaming palate had long been developed enough to make a fair judgment of a game with which I had no real experience. And I can honestly say that IV is a classic to endure the test of time, even if its age is showing. The truth is that even the best games age, but they age gracefully.

That's my take on it. Time for an anecdote. Now here's a funny thing: I was always thunderstruck by what I felt to be the game's uncanny difficulty. I knew that IV was supposed to be tougher than II, but not THAT much harder. I was having to endure two enemy turns when I had gotten a pre-emptive strike! Fighting timed battles like the Demon Wall and Odin was bloody murder; I had to defeat Odin in one turn. Same goes for Plague. And that was a special feeling when I did. But I just couldn't for the life of me beat Zeromus and his superattack; I was at a loss. Maybe the Japanese were on to something when they dumbed it down for us saucefaced bangbang cowboys.

Then I found out I had been playing the entire game with the battle speed jacked all the way up. I popped a gasket with mingled rage and hilarity. When I turned it down to medium, Zeromus went down no trouble. Pretty good ending.

I've been a gamer for literally as long as I remember. I always hung around my big brother, and he was a gamer, so I took to it naturally. Final Fantasy has been a big part of my gaming career, and no matter how much I bitch and bemoan each and every single game as the inevitable downfall of the roleplaying titan, the fact is I really am incurably bound to the series because, more than any other, it's THE series I grew up with.

(Oh, and I actually DO know to say Tidus properly; a South Korean fellow who spoke five languages, Ainu included, taught me how. My ability to Romanize it, however, is meager at best. The point I tried to make is that his name is stupid and he should be thrown in a furnace for various reasons, his complete vocal anonymity in both X AND X-2 ranking high among them.)

[theMycon]

Cait was a unique case.

On one hand, he was probably the most interesting, best-written character in the game; he added depth and balance to the party and created actual dialogue about the morality of your blatant terrorist actions.

On the other hand, he looked like a freak, had no interesting limits, and not enough magic to make the rest worthwhile.

[Tengu]

Hmm, for me FF4 didn't age gracefully, and it failed to move me - not to mention that the story was pretty cliche, while lacking the fairy-tale-like charm of FF5. I acknowledge this game's place in forming the modern jRPGs where you have actual plot and deeper characters that you get emotionally attached to, but I don't think if it's as good as people's nostalgia draws it to be.

[Quxelopqr]

Alright I retract my point on Gau, I mistook him for Umaro (the yeti, I'm positive I misspelled his name). Gau is useful, I never took much time on the Veldt (where his real strength lies) but he was a very good magic user for my third team in the last dungeon. The yeti, on the other hand, sucked (imo). No character should be permanently in berserk status, especially in a game where magic is so useful.

Cait Sith? Oh, right. The Big the Cat of final fantasy 7. Never used him aside from when it was required. His character was kind of cool though.

[Arameus]

Ah, yes, running around aimlessly on the Veldt for hours. What isn't there to love? Here's a fun trick: have Gau leap into a group of monsters, then get inyour airship and never return.

VI heavily encouraged endless grinding in all of its systems. Come to think of it, it actually encouraged as little character growth as possible until you get Espers, when it reverses polarity and encourages hypergrinding.

[Rutee]

...Endless Grinding? The only time I legitimately felt any need to grind was to pick up Life 3 on every party member for Kefka's tower. Yes, I did grind the veldt, but that was because I actually liked Gau's Rage system.

[Tengu]

I agree with Rutee - apart from getting spells like Life 3 or Ultima, I finished the whole FF6 without any grinding. I fail to see how it encourages grinding, as opposed to FF4 where you need to grind to kill the final boss.

And I loved the Veldt's music, so getting Rages for Gau wasn't tedious for me. Especially if you know which monsters have good Rages and which ones suck.

I agree that Umaro sucks hard.

[Terraoblivion]

I too agree with Rutee. I did some grinding in order to get Ultima, but unlike pretty much every other game i've ever played i felt no tedium grinding in FFVI and in fact enjoyed it much of the time. And the Veldt has great music making it even less annoying to grind there.

[Tengu]

Terra... when was the last time we had a different view on something? You're like the reverse-gendered me from an alternative dimension.

[Rutee]

Oh, right, totally forgot Ultima. Alright I'll grant that one...

[Tengu]

Ah, now I am reminded of so many precious memories... if I didn't discover FF6 at the end of my second high school year, my average marks at that time would probably be much, much higher... but I wouldn't have it any other way regardless.

[Mirrinus]

Aww...reading all this has made me want to replay FF VI again. Which is bad, because I have midterms and TA applications due this week, on top of a ton of other stuff.

And I thought I'd have more free time recently with MTGO down this past week...

[Terraoblivion]

I think it was whether the genderbent version of Haruhi characters was fun or disturbing. But we seem to agree on a lot, that much is true, Tengu. I am not entirely certain that i feel comfortable having an alternate of me running around here.

As for the topic at hand, which seems to have become FFVI i have a confession to make. I never completed the game. My copy broke just as i was going through Kefka's tower and the thought of going through the entire game again is quite daunting.

[Tengu]

There is only one non-violent solution to this problem, it seems - proclaim the older of us the original one. The other one doesn't need to listen to the original one's orders, but must pay a tithe. For existing.

Or just stay in each other's dimensions. Poland is like a different world anyway. Has any of you seen a polar bear? I did.
In zoo.

On topic. FF6 is not a very long game if you know exactly what to do where, so it doesn't take a lot of effort to go to the point where you left. And believe me, the ending is worth it.

[Terraoblivion]

Then i am the original, Tengu. You turned 22 just a few days ago, i did it a few months ago. So where is my tithe, it was traditionally ten percent of the harvest but i am sure we can reach an accomodation.

And i have not only seen polar bears in zoos, i saw one in the wild in Greenland. From a long distance away, but still i saw it. I also saw musk oxes and reindeer and even the tail of a whale.

And i think i might get back to FFVI some day, especially if i can get through it quickly enough.

[Tengu]

Then i am the original, Tengu. You turned 22 just a few days ago, i did it a few months ago. So where is my tithe, it was traditionally ten percent of the harvest but i am sure we can reach an accomodation.

Curses, I've been hoist by my own petard. Very well then, one out of ten avatars I make can belong to you.



And i have not only seen polar bears in zoos, i saw one in the wild in Greenland. From a long distance away, but still i saw it. I also saw musk oxes and reindeer and even the tail of a whale.


See? A completely different world.

[DraPrime]

I believe that Yuna is more annoying than anything in your rant (though it is mostly justified). All she does is go around constantly apologizing for everything she does. She's your typical "easily flattened and weak female character." I mean she's trying to model herself after her father who was a hero, yet all she does is constantly apologize while her self esteem continues to shoot strait down.

[Terraoblivion]

I knew you were a reasonable person and willing to bow to your original. I also think we can safely determine who lives in the cooler world. I mean wild polars bears just are a lot more interesting than captive ones. Now i just need to find a use for the avatars.

[Tengu]

I knew you were a reasonable person and willing to bow to your original. I also think we can safely determine who lives in the cooler world. I mean wild polars bears just are a lot more interesting than captive ones. Now i just need to find a use for the avatars.

The world around me might be bland and mundane, but it doesn't matter to me for these very reasons:
1. The weather here is the way it's supposed to be - snow at winter, sun at summer, not one of these the whole year.
2. The world I create using the power of imagination alone is vastly more interesting than what's outside anyway.
3. As an Ordinary High School Student, the chances of me suddenly getting into a wild and exciting adventure is extremely high. Wait... I'm on a technical university, Ordinary College Students only get goddess girlfriends. Ah well, still good for me.

[Terraoblivion]

I don't live in Greenland. Our climate is still weirder than your though. We just get wind and rain no matter the season. You aren't an ordinary college student though, ordinary college students are not clones of girls from parallel universes.

[Tengu]

Clone? I'm no clone. You're just the original character and since the creator was lazy, my character design is partially based on you.

I am ordinary on the outside. Ordinary in the "if all the people were like that, the world would be a better place" way. Modest, too.

Woohoo, another thread derailed. To keep it at least slightly on-topic... I haven't played FF10, but if I did I'd probably agree with dragonprime. I like strong female characters so the Weak Love Interest archetype is extremely annoying to me. An archetype that's completely unnecessary - TTGL has shown that a girl can be extremely soft and moe, and still remain brave and self-confident.

[Rutee]

I believe that Yuna is more annoying than anything in your rant (though it is mostly justified). All she does is go around constantly apologizing for everything she does. She's your typical "easily flattened and weak female character." I mean she's trying to model herself after her father who was a hero, yet all she does is constantly apologize while her self esteem continues to shoot strait down.

Agreed. She was far less annoying in FFX-2.

Still, even as a whiny pest, I liked her better then Rosa. Rosa almost didn't exist except as a satellite character of Cecil. I can't /stand/ that.

[Terraoblivion]

Rosa was practically a trophy wife for Cecil in the end. Nothing much to say about her because there really wasn't much of her to say anything about.

And Tengu what you mean is that instead of being a clone you are just a ripoff of me? Amounts to much the same i think.

[Tengu]

FF games almost always have a trio of female characters: Soft Girl, Tough Girl and Genki Girl. And, with the exception of FF6 (Terra) and maybe FF5 (Lenna), the Soft Girl is always a weak-willed love interest who can barely do anything on her own. Such a boring stereotype... give me a game where the love interest is an action girl! Xenogears was decent in that regard, as Elly, despite clearly being The Chick, wasn't such a total weakling and was very determined when pushed.
Although bad stuff happens to her later, and since it was the cursed second disk I still don't know does she return to normal or not.

And since I already have a twin brother, which some people would call a clone, I don't need another clone overseas.

[Drascin]

FF games almost always have a trio of female characters: Soft Girl, Tough Girl and Genki Girl. And, with the exception of FF6 (Terra)

I am pretty convinced this was mainly due to Terra and Celes sharing the burden of Square's Standard Required Amount of Femenine "Softness" (mind the quotations, because when I believe being a softie precludes actually doing anything I will eat my own arm), which is usually painfully concentrated in a single subject - therefore basically nullifying her -, and so they were allowed more freedom in their other actions and to be appropiately badass as needed.

This might be one of the reasons FFVI is one of the few FF games when I don't want to smack the protagonist in the face with a shovel :smalltongue:

[Blayze]

I never got the hatred for Gau.

Excellent, people who actually like the little ball of childlike fury. :)

To be honest, the best party in the game was Edgar, Sabin, Cyan and Gau in my opinion, and it was (IIRC) a good party interaction-wise and power-wise too.

"Mr Thou!"

[Khanderas]

"Mr Thou!"
Thou ?

Thou, thou

[Guancyto]

I am pretty convinced this was mainly due to Terra and Celes sharing the burden of Square's Standard Required Amount of Femenine "Softness"

Might be! The second half didn't really lend itself well to main characters or love interests (Locke aside), but the first half spent some time setting up General Leo that way, and you can bet with a certified badass like Leo as a love interest, Terra would've gotten less screen time and even less moments of awesome.

Playing it again, I'm really impressed with how well they avoided that.

On another note! Never played X-2 (and, in fact, never finished X) but I disliked Yuna right up until the Yunalesca fight. Such an epic "oh, screw this!"

[Nerd-o-rama]

FF games almost always have a trio of female characters: Soft Girl, Tough Girl and Genki Girl. And, with the exception of FF6 (Terra) and maybe FF5 (Lenna), the Soft Girl is always a weak-willed love interest who can barely do anything on her own. Such a boring stereotype... give me a game where the love interest is an action girl!I'd think you'd like FFVII then. Cloud tends to come down on the action girl side...if only because the villain shishkabobs the Staff Chick. Now, this being a game about emos with schizophrenia, it's a bit complicated, but I see FFVII gradually resolving itself into Cloud/Tifa.

But yes, I also tend to prefer the action girls, if only because no one loves healbots. Skies of Arcadia was almost an exception, because Fina's actually well-written, but Aika was the genki girl and the action girl rolled into one, and that's just irresistible.

[Ranis]

I would like to point out how, as a collector of Final Fantasy music, the Chocobo music annoys the piss out of me. It may be one of the few unifying factors of the series, but for the love of all that is holy, change the music. I can't even see pictures of ostriches without getting the music stuck in my head and beating said noggin against the wall repeatedly in an unsuccessful attempt at removing the annoying, repetitive, unreasonably upbeat excuse for a tune.

And don't even get me started about FFIX's chocobo digging minigame. I think that's what started the tradition of turning up the radio and putting the TV on mute while I game now.

[Terraoblivion]

You are just grumpy because you aren't the original, Tengu.

Ineffectual lead characters seems to be the curse of Final Fantasy, i wonder why the scriptwriters insists on including them. Perhaps they have them on loan from the guys who write harem animes, those too have Yamato Nadeshikos and personality-less main characters. Perhaps it is all a conspiracy to turn us into little Japanese drones.

And what is wrong with the chocobo music, Ranis?

[Burley]

I wanna chime!
My favorites: Kingdom Hearts 2, and Final Fantasy Tactics...advanced.

KH-2: Seriously, you guys. So. Much. Fun. Everyday! I hate gummi ships stuff, which was significantly less annoying than the first. ~Eye Twitch~ Everytime I feel like unwinding, I just pick a random world (Not the Pirate's level...hate the moonlight nonsense). I run around for a while, bashin' the baddies ninja styles with B.A. swords. I love the Drive forms, mainly because two keyblades makes me wanna hug kitties, and also because it's one of the few games that you can level up your special abilities and it actually helps you. You can totally go without leveling them at all, but maxing them out gives you so much more fun stuff to do. I glide Everywhere. Dang...I'm playing that when I get home...

FFTA: I'm sorry. I love the original FFTactics, even though I normally don't like tactics games. But, my big thing with FFTA was the jobs. I hated having to struggle through Squire to get to Archer and Chemist to get to Black Mage. I was totally okay with different races having different jobs, because it added a little bit more recognition to the races. (Which race is the most dextrous, which is strongest, which is most charismatic...) My big selling point: I love learning abilities through equiped items. The way FFIX does it. Equip this, learn this in X battles. I hated the system of the original FFT: Play this class and get experience in it, but if another party member is this class and you win the fight you get twice that much experience in their class so you can get the abilities you want them to have and your Faith is still too low to get healed. What the hell is that, anyways? I don't believe in spells enough...even though I'm the bloody Cleric? Garg! I hated that.
Oops...heh heh...tangent. Anyways, I liked FFTA. The story wasn't great, but it gave me a story and didn't completely railroad me. I mean...I could wait an entire year in game time before I continued the story, and the fight could still be fun. I was a little confused after I beat it, ended up back in the fantasy world, knowing that I ended fantasy world, but still played in the fantasy world...without ever saying how I got back... But, that's okay, cause I can duel wield rods to learn two spells, at once.

I'm gonna say this, as well: I enjoyed Dirge of Cerebus. It was a little easier than I had hoped, and the controls were a little wonky. But, a F/TPS mixed with an RPG? Makes me almost not hate F/TPS.

[Ranis]

Since when is Kingdom Hearts Final Fantasy?

[Guancyto]

Ever since it was made as the unholy (but awesome) fusion of Final Fantasy and Disney?

It isn't FF in the strictest sense, but it's close enough.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Never played a KH game, never will. Doesn't look interesting to me at all, though I do tend to hear more good things about the series than not.

FFT on the PSP was an amazingly well done update on what I consider the most enjoyable game with Final Fantasy in the title. Sure, the game still feels incomplete, but it's still right above the number 2 spot that is FF7.

I hate FFTA FF9 BECAUSE of the bit of learning from weapons. Much like WoW, I do not desire a second job in my recreational activities.

[Tengu]

I'd think you'd like FFVII then.

And lo, I did. Although my favorite female character from this game was Yuffie.


You are just grumpy because you aren't the original, Tengu.

Ineffectual lead characters seems to be the curse of Final Fantasy, i wonder why the scriptwriters insists on including them.

No, I'm grumpy because I suck at biology and doesn't know that the recessive genes I received weren't automatically inferior because they were recessive.

And the brooding loner as main character is not actually that common of an archetype in FF: the main character is much more optimistic in 5 (although Butz does have some broody moments when he remembers his deceased parents, but that's understandable), 6 (no main lead), Tactics (Ramza is the single most idealistic character in the whole game), 9... especially 9. Zidane had one emo moment in the entire game, and him snapping out of it with the help of his friends was both one of the coolest moments in the game and one of the most beautiful pieces of music in it.

[tyckspoon]

Zidane had one emo moment in the entire game, and him snapping out of it with the help of his friends was both one of the coolest moments in the game and one of the most beautiful pieces of music in it.

And if it's the bit I think you're talking about, it happens After he has just come out of a room the menu screen labels as 'Mind Control Chamber.' Zidane's emo moment isn't even his own character trait. Garland's screwing with him.

[Nerd-o-rama]

No, I'm grumpy because I suck at biology and doesn't know that the recessive genes I received weren't automatically inferior because they were recessive.See, this is the kind of game we should be talking about.

[Tengu]

See, this is the kind of game we should be talking about.

But we already do, at least once a week, in non-related threads.
Okay, we do if puns and ho-yay jokes count.

I'm playing the third one on my PS2. It's great, although I'd like if it had less "notice the green-clad guard on a green background" or "hello, it's night and you cannot see a thing" moments.


And if it's the bit I think you're talking about, it happens After he has just come out of a room the menu screen labels as 'Mind Control Chamber.' Zidane's emo moment isn't even his own character trait. Garland's screwing with him.

This moment indeed.

[Terraoblivion]

You can be ineffectual and annoying while still being optimistic, Tengu. You just have to be an unreasonable optimist with little actual skill at planning and personality traits that grate on people.

[Tengu]

In that case, all FF protagonists are ineffectual like that. But so is Haruhi (or would be if not for her power).

[Terraoblivion]

Well Haruhi is not out saving the world with sheer pluck and determination like the average FF hero is. She is just trying to run around hiding from her sense of insignificance. Also she is most less useless than most FF heroes are, most of them only succeed due to the plot being scripted to them succeeding. At least it is not their intelligence or their thoroughness that does it.

Don't get me wrong i like Final Fantasy, i am just not too fond of most of the main characters.

[Tengu]

The only FF characters I didn't like were Cecil, Rosa, Squall, Rinoa and Garnet (I haven't played FF10 or anything further and FFTA). I had at least neutral feelings about the rest.

[Rutee]

Play X-2. It's hilariously awesome. Most excellent /writing/ (I have to be specific; The /plot/ sucks. Hard. But it is saved by amazingly good, amusing /writing/. I still say "Disasterrific" in real life, actually...)

[tyckspoon]

I find X-2 depends a lot on whether you find the opening sequence with the concert entertaining or at least tolerable, or whether it makes you gag. For all the complaints about 'dress up', the game is never again so potentially off-putting as it is with the blatant Charlie's Angels ripoff parody homage that you get in the first five minutes or so. And to anybody who was completely put off by that: It doesn't do it again. Really. It's a more light-hearted game in general tone, but it never gets that silly again. Not even when Yuna is wearing a Moogle mascot suit and handing out promotional balloons.

[The Extinguisher]

I loved X-2. Which puts me in an awkward position, as people tend to stop listening to me after that. Which isn't helped that I find VIII and VII to be increadibly boring, and I don't worship the ground VI walks on. So I'm kind of isolated by most fans.

IX was one of the best. The best of the 3D games so far (not counting 3D remakes on the DS), I loved the call backs to the older gaming, and the cartoony style was perfect. And I wasn't too upset about Necron. I actually figured out what he was doing there in a few minutes. At least, it makes sense to me. I also have a major fanboy crush on Kuja. <3

But my favourite will now and forever be FFIV. That point is non-arguable.

[Khanderas]

I loved X-2. Which puts me in an awkward position, as people tend to stop listening to me after that. Which isn't helped that I find VIII and VII to be increadibly boring, and I don't worship the ground VI walks on. So I'm kind of isolated by most fans.

IX was one of the best. The best of the 3D games so far (not counting 3D remakes on the DS), I loved the call backs to the older gaming, and the cartoony style was perfect. And I wasn't too upset about Necron. I actually figured out what he was doing there in a few minutes. At least, it makes sense to me. I also have a major fanboy crush on Kuja. <3

But my favourite will now and forever be FFIV. That point is non-arguable.
I agree. Except FF6, the one with the crazy clown and Terra is spelled FFVI, not FFIV :smallwink:


I hate FFTA FF9 BECAUSE of the bit of learning from weapons. Much like WoW, I do not desire a second job in my recreational activities.
I must disagree with you here. FF9 has the LEAST grind in any final fantasy I found (except FFX-2, since you could put a weight on the x button and go for dinner and come back to a fully trained dressphere). You can use the skill immediatly upon equipping the weapon, no grind needed (spells in FF6 for example was not usable until you got 100% in it). To learn it permanently took some killin' yes, but hey you can always do that later on in areas with random encounters (infact I don't remember many times where normal random attacks DIDN'T automatically fix the training part for me).

[Tempest Fennac]

If I'm honest, I really thought KH2 was a letdown: as well as the Gummi ships being needlesly complicated compared to how it was in the first game, the magic system was really poor in general (who had the idea of changing Cure?), and the plot really annoyed me (the 2 plot twists concerning "Ansem" from the first game and Riku were like the sort of thing Vince Russo booked in WCW, the Atlantica bit was a pointless waste of time from both a gameplay and story perspective (I turned the sound off during that bit), the whole Pridelands level annoyed me (I know I hate fighting canids and hyenas in games anyway, but that 2nd hyena "fight" was just irritating and pointless, Simba's voice acting was dire, is whining and inability to conserve MPs to heal himself got on my nerves, and Sora was awkward to control as a lion cub).
The Port Royal bit was my favourite level due to how it actually had atmosphere (assuming you ignore the annoying pirate music during fights). I never actually bothered with Fusions (most of the time, I forgot that I could use them), and I haven't touched the game since I completed it (I've completed KH1 3 or 4 times altogether).

[Eksar Lindisfar]

Call me naive if you want...I just enjoyed them, I played origins, tactics, VII, VIII, IX, X and plainly enjoyed them, each one is a different game, has virtues and flaws, as everything the humanity does, I have been unable to finish Tactics Advance and XII...and I abhor as well X-2.

[Rutee]

If I'm honest, I really thought KH2 was a letdown: as well as the Gummi ships being needlesly complicated compared to how it was in the first game, the magic system was really poor in general (who had the idea of changing Cure?),

What was wrong with the magic system? Also, I really, /really/ liked the Cure change. KH1 was ludicrously easy because you could spam Cure so hard. I never cast anything else except Aeroga, and always had more then enough mana to do either. Changing Cure to totally empty mana, and causing empty mana to legitimately halt casting for a while (Baring Mana recharge) was without a doubt the most <3 change besides Reaction Abilities.

[Thanatos 51-50]

VII was okay, but I never got past the first disc, when that Deamon Wall makes an appearance in the Ancient's Temple and decimates your party.
I've read hes easy to take care of with a SLOW spell, but noone ever told me where to find the materia.
I've seen the end, wasn't impressed, and now wholly hate every Sephiroth fan out there.

I actually liked VIII I've always played conservative with magic in FF games, and the junstion system played into my style, anyway. The characters, however, were completely unsympathetic. I eventually, just stopped paying attention to their hackeneyed devlopment and played the game because I liked the mechanics. (I fully admit I cheesed out squall by giving him 100 Zombies on his weapon).

IX I never played, but watched, decided it didn't make sense, and read a book, instead.

[Tirian]

I finally found a used FF9 to play, and was probably expecting too much since everyone always gushes about how it's the best. And, wow, it plopped down in the bottom half of the deck. Zidane and Beatrice were the only people I cared about, everyone else was either stupid or whiny. The love storie(s) were nearly unbearable, and the villains were cliched. The stealing and synthesis mechanics were horribly arbitrary, and the card game was unplayable. On the plus side, it isn't an Attack of the Clones game which plagues many FF games, and I like the degree to which the party gets split up because the concept of traveling with seven people but only three of them can fight at once is lame. Ultimately, I had to stop playing because of a disk read error halfway through Disk 3, so maybe it all became awesome in the end, but I'm quite relieved to be spared the pain of finishing.

I have a pretty high threshold for flawed characters (as long as they aren't whiny or stupid :smalltongue:), so most of the games are fine for me. X and XII are particularly enjoyable because I think the graphics and sound upgrades contribute to the story immersion. V and VI are more primitive, but are still quite playable. X-2 has a lot of strikes against it, especially that you need to play with a walkthrough in your lap if you want to see the payoff video at the end.

I don't know if the battle system is sufficiently different to disqualify KH as a FF game, but it's an excellent game with a great flavor in any event. And it has Maleficent, who pwns every FF villain ever and even outshines her portrayal in Sleeping Beauty. It was a pity about the sequel....

[tyckspoon]

VII was okay, but I never got past the first disc, when that Deamon Wall makes an appearance in the Ancient's Temple and decimates your party.
I've read hes easy to take care of with a SLOW spell, but noone ever told me where to find the materia.
I've seen the end, wasn't impressed, and now wholly hate every Sephiroth fan out there.

I actually liked VIII I've always played conservative with magic in FF games, and the junstion system played into my style, anyway. The characters, however, were completely unsympathetic. I eventually, just stopped paying attention to their hackeneyed devlopment and played the game because I liked the mechanics. (I fully admit I cheesed out squall by giving him 100 Zombies on his weapon).


I'm pretty sure there's a couple of places to just buy a Time materia before you get to that point as well as at least one laying around as a treasure. Slow is the level 2 spell on that. It's not the game's fault if you never checked new shops.

As VIII goes.. it's way too easy to break that game. Try 100 Death as your weapon status junction. Or put a stack of Hastes on Speed. Then equip the Auto-Haste GF ability and walk around with your HP in or near critical to trigger Limit Breaks. Random encounters cry.. Renzokuken! Duel! Renzokuken! Duel! Renzokuken, Lionheart triggers! GG.

[Bleen]

Hmm.

I liked I, IV, VI, and IX. Oh, and Tactics.

Kingdom Hearts was good, for all its flaws. It broke some new ground, and pulled off a weird concept fairly well. (PS MASH X TO WIN)

Then Kingdom Hearts II got injected with an overdose of Angst And Belt And Zipper Syndrome and lost all the fun stuff that made KHI good for the sake of being more 'cool'. It also made me play through all the worlds twice. God forbid we just make new ones. We were doing that, what, ten years ago in what, Ghosts 'n Goblins?

Tron level was the bee's knees, though. I pretty much played through the entire game for that part.

All of that said, I've never felt Final Fantasy was the absolute best Japanese RPG's has had to offer. Better than a lot of the crap out there, but with a little effort you can find even better yet.

[lemonhoney]

Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places on the internet (I admittedly don't frequent many gaming forums ), but I've never seen so much FFIX praise o__O;

I loved it - though I honestly don't remember much besides the beginning and the ending, as I played it quite a few years ago. But I CLEARLY remember reading about how every FF fan on the planet absolutely hated it with a passion.

Er - Anyway. My favourite game (and not just FF game or RPG) to this day is still FFVI. I own the SNES, PSX, and GBA version (though I don't play the PSX one because the loading time is suckage and I don't play the GBA one because the butchered battles/sound/dialogue makes me want to gag...).

Seriously, that game is too awesome for me - I remember memorizing and singing the Opera song when I was younger. I remember drawing pictures of it in elementary school. I've replayed that game way too many times (though I've left certain dungeons/parts of the game unfinished... Why? I just can't deal with the idea of having fully completed the game... I don't want to think that it's really over.)

As for other games... FFVII is one of my least favourites of the series. I've attempted to replay it so many times during the past few years, but I always stop just a little while after leaving Midgar. It's true that Midgar honestly sets the stage for a great gameplay atmosphere, which is a shame when it's blatantly taken away from you.

I'm glad the whole game wasn't entirely cyberpunk-esque, 'cause then I wouldn't be able to stand it (and I'd have major gripes with a totally 100% cyberpunk game being part of the Final Fantasy series), but it did lose a lot of the chilling atmosphere that so many people loved about it. ALSO, Cloud and Sephiroth both suck. And the game had a sub-par OST, imo. Aeris' theme was wonderful, though.

VIII, surprisingly, I only got around to playing recently. Like, late 2007-recently. Because of two reasons - I first played it when I was really young, at my cousin's house, and I got to the part with the mechanical spider chasing you down the hill (at Dollet? I think.) and nearly crapped myself. But the main reason was because everyone hated on it so much. Everyone said it was the worst FF game evar and I believed them. From the bit that I had played (from the beginning -> Dollet), I hated that it was so futuristic and I hated the direction they were going in with these FF games. Futuristic =/= the kind of fantasy I liked and was used to with the FF games.

This was all before I knew there would be crazy GFs and Sorcerors and crap. I actually really like it now, though I haven't beaten it. I'll admit that I actually DO like the characters. Yes. I do. I like them way more than VII's cast. And I love the atmosphere of some scenes... like, the Sorceress Parade was just amazingly done.

IX was always my 2nd favourite, because, as I mentioned above, I hated the futuristic direction the FF series was going with. IX was a dream come true for me, naturally. I loved Dagger because she was named after my birth stone (seriously, when I was that age, that was enough to make her my favourite character, haha.). I loved Zidane. Everything about him. Also, without a doubt, this game has THE best beginning ever (I'm not referring to the beginning FMV, but rather the moment you press New Game -> Evil Forest. That whole sequence). Plus, it just was so... Final Fantasy. Everything about it! It was bursting with cameos and references and... I mean, come on - Moogles as save points? Genius.

X, I never beat. I was at the Omega Ruins, lent it to my cousin earlier this year, haven't seen it since. But I loved it... I felt more like I was watching it than playing it (due to the heavy linearity of it), and for some reason, I really liked that feeling. The fact that so much time was put into creating beautiful scenes and characters instead of an over-the-top story and villain made me really like it. All the dungeons stood out to me, not as dungeons, but just as parts of the story. I knew from the beginning that I wouldn't like Yuna, just because she was the typical heroine girl, but even I ended up falling for her cuteness in the game.

As for XII... :smallsigh: ... Uh. I'm glad I played through a lot of this with my cousin, because during the parts where I was playing it alone, I was bored as hell. The characters suck (save for Fran, but even she has limited personality/background), I didn't even bother keeping up with the ridiculous plot-line, Larsa looks like a woman, and the characters suck. After Eruyt Village, when I found out Fran's less-than-spectacular backstory and was informed by my friend that that was all it ever amounts to, I started to ask myself why I was still playing - The battles were just getting tiresome, I wasn't even making an effort with the plot anymore, the characters suck... and yeah. The battle system was fun at first, but when it got down to grinding before every major dungeon, I just got pissed off. It doesn't help that the music is so bland and painful to listen to. Grinding in the Sandsea or the Paramina Rift was just... seriously painful with those terrible BGMs. I don't know WHY I was grinding so much. I'd be like, Whee, here I am, kicking ass at everything, Oh, there's a hard boss coming up, *checks walkthrough*, and I'm somehow ten levels behind :D Time for some hardcore grinding! Blechhh.

I have T for Playstation, but haven't bothered with it much. I'm only going to put a lot of time into it when I get the PSP version, so I have more time to play with it since I'm not at home much. I've played and thoroughly enjoyed TA, though, and T is apparently even better (and has the best FF plot... or so I've heard. But then again, the three people who have told me this haven't played FF6 :smallamused: )

[Tempest Fennac]

I disagree about the Cure change making the game harder. It just meant that boss battles lasted a lot longer due to having to avoid te boss while my MPs recharged, which was just annoying rather then challenging. Besides, all of the other spells were dreadful as well (Fire was pointless due to it's lack of range, Blizard and Thunder weren't as good as they were in KH1, the gravity spell has no point to it at all from what I could gather, and the Shield spell was a waste of time). These changes also pretty much resulted in Donald being next to useless (Goofy was much more usefl in the first game as well). I didn't like Reaction Commands that much due to how they made some fights way too easy (and I never understood why the ones which initiated attacks such as Setting Sun could only be used on 1 type of enermy).

[Bleen]

I have T for Playstation, but haven't bothered with it much. I'm only going to put a lot of time into it when I get the PSP version, so I have more time to play with it since I'm not at home much. I've played and thoroughly enjoyed TA, though, and T is apparently even better (and has the best FF plot... or so I've heard. But then again, the three people who have told me this haven't played FF6 :smallamused: )

T has a freaking complicated plot. Not better, just..more complicated. And this is coming from someone who can somewhat-grasp what was going on in Chrono Cross and Metal Gear Solid 2.

But if I stack it next to 12 and 7 and 8 and...yeah. It is pretty good.

(I actually kinda liked 8 aside from the fact that it was so easy to break and 'Time Compression' seems like shorthand for 'Frantic Writers Running Up Against A Deadline' and the fact that Squall wouldn't stop brooding)

[Rutee]

I disagree about the Cure change making the game harder. It just meant that boss battles lasted a lot longer due to having to avoid te boss while my MPs recharged, which was just annoying rather then challenging. Besides, all of the other spells were dreadful as well (Fire was pointless due to it's lack of range, Blizard and Thunder weren't as good as they were in KH1, the gravity spell has no point to it at all from what I could gather, and the Shield spell was a waste of time). These changes also pretty much resulted in Donald being next to useless (Goofy was much more usefl in the first game as well). I didn't like Reaction Commands that much due to how they made some fights way too easy (and I never understood why the ones which initiated attacks such as Setting Sun could only be used on 1 type of enermy).

Well, I don't run and flee. It's not entertaining. I just stayed in the thick of melee and started fighting a bit better. :P
Now, the spells I have to wonder what you're talking about. Fire was pretty awesome when you had multiple enemies on you, especially since it wasn't as easily deflected. When in Wisdom (!!!) or Final Forms, Firaga+ becomes disgustingly good, since you can remain completely mobile while casting it. Blizzard and Thunder worked the exact same way, I'm pretty sure. I /know/ Thunder was still a targeted AoE, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard was frontal AoE. I liked the new Fire better, since it actually had a use besides pelting one target. And the REaction Commands I liked a lot, particularly on bosses, since they were chalk full of +2 and +3 stunts. Easier, yeah, I'll grant that, though.

The minor spells, Gravity never had much of a use. Now, if by "Shield Spell", you mean Reflect... you're just completely wrong. It blocks every attack in the game, unconditionally. It then devastates the area for massive damage, if it absorbed an attack. If anything /that/ was disgustingly powerful, like KH1 Cure.

[Tengu]

T has a freaking complicated plot. Not better, just..more complicated. And this is coming from someone who can somewhat-grasp what was going on in Chrono Cross and Metal Gear Solid 2.


Frankly, I believe the only reason for this is because most of the characters have rather uncharacteristic names and appearances, so it's hard to remember who's who. Not to mention that the bad translation makes things appear more complicated than they really are.

[Quxelopqr]

If the T you're talking about is Tactics, then I have one thing to say...

Mustadio = Awesomes!!

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Yup. T is Tactics, and if you think that Mustadio is awesome, try that magnificent bastard Balthier. He's a mix of both M and the thief class, has a higher speed rating than ninjas, AND has a unique special with 100% accuracy that attacks 4 times. That means that weapons with specials trigger more often and, if you two hand it, you deal around +350% damage. Build it right, and you can end up with an attack pattern that looks like:
Holy Lance
Holy
Holy Lance
Holy
Holy Lance
Holy
Holy Lance
Holy

I have yet to leveldown train him to tweak the build, but when I do, he'll be able to 1 shot the last boss before he gets a turn. =3 Also, beat the game with just Ramza (with Worker 8 taking up space on 2 party fights), it felt great.

[Bleen]

T was like, the most broken SRPG ever, what with Cid and Worker 8 and Mustadio.

I'm glad to see they kept the trend going with Balthier's abilities in the remake. :smallamused:

[Rutee]

T wasn't the most broken. At least you never had to swap out the generics because they were useless in the storyline battles :P

[Khanderas]

Er - Anyway. My favourite game (and not just FF game or RPG) to this day is still FFVI. I own the SNES, PSX, and GBA version (though I don't play the PSX one because the loading time is suckage and I don't play the GBA one because the butchered battles/sound/dialogue makes me want to gag...).

Seriously, that game is too awesome for me - I remember memorizing and singing the Opera song when I was younger. I remember drawing pictures of it in elementary school. I've replayed that game way too many times (though I've left certain dungeons/parts of the game unfinished... Why? I just can't deal with the idea of having fully completed the game... I don't want to think that it's really over.) So true :)
Playing FF6 until I could see Kefka just a few steps away, then deleting the savefile just so the game would not be cleared / ending ?
Guilty !
(Infact I did it twice)

[tyckspoon]

T was like, the most broken SRPG ever, what with Cid and Worker 8 and Mustadio.

I'm glad to see they kept the trend going with Balthier's abilities in the remake. :smallamused:

What? No, Calculators, dude. Every other jobset needs multiple turns to end a fight. Calculators? Turn 1: Flare, calculated to hit everything (Charge Time parameters will work. Turn 2: No more fight.

[Bleen]

T wasn't the most broken. At least you never had to swap out the generics because they were useless in the storyline battles :P

:smalleek: There's another FF game out there that's easier to break than T?

[Rutee]

Vanish/Doom, but I meant SRPGs that are far more broken then FFT. Like Hoshigami, and Disgaea :P

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Ramza: Dark Knight
Brave: max
Faith: max
Sign: Cancer
Abilities:
Darkness
Arithmatics
Reflexes
Dual Wield
Move +3

Equipment:
Chaos Blade
Excalibur
Crystal Helm
Rubber Suit
Featherweave Cloak

The campaign is a cakewalk with this setup. For normal play, switch out Dual Wield for Poach and Excalibur for an Ice Shield. Getting hit with all three of a Tiamat's fire breath attacks will tickle. The only way to lose is autogibs or save or die abilities, and they'll have a 20% or lower (it's usually lower) chance of success. Heck, attacks from behind grant a max of 20% chance to hit.

[Tempest Fennac]

I think the Vanish/Doom trick was due to a bug: I know that Evasion didn't do anything in that game, making Blind pointless, but Magic Evasion allowed you to avoid physical and magical attacks as well. I always thought Edgar's Tools were a bit overpowered considering how they didn;t use MPs or require timing/pressing buttons.

[Rutee]

Ramza: Dark Knight
Brave: max
Faith: max
Sign: Cancer
Abilities:
Darkness
Arithmatics
Reflexes
Dual Wield
Move +3

Equipment:
Chaos Blade
Excalibur
Crystal Helm
Rubber Suit
Featherweave Cloak

The campaign is a cakewalk with this setup. For normal play, switch out Dual Wield for Poach and Excalibur for an Ice Shield. Getting hit with all three of a Tiamat's fire breath attacks will tickle. The only way to lose is autogibs or save or die abilities, and they'll have a 20% or lower (it's usually lower) chance of success. Heck, attacks from behind grant a max of 20% chance to hit.

Can't pull off Dark Knight in normal FFT, and if Reflexes isn't Blade Catch renamed you did it wrong. Monsters in the Deep Dungeon will OHKO you if they hit, period. They do too much damage per hit for anyone but Reis as a Monk or Dragoner with Equip Armor to survive. Erego, you max out Brave, and equip Blade Catch, which (Since Max brave is 97, due to the game's math) leaves enemies with a 3% chance to hit. Speed is so high that the only spell enemies have access too that's worth a darn is Slow (Which is crippling), and the only non-physical attacks that can be launched that are useful are Tiamat Breath Attacks and Choco-Meteor (The former can be handled with Flame Shields; Do note that in the original Tiamat Breath and Choco-Meteor aren't subject to M-EV :P)

[tyckspoon]

I think the Vanish/Doom trick was due to a bug: I know that Evasion didn't do anything in that game, making Blind pointless, but Magic Evasion allowed you to avoid physical and magical attacks as well. I always thought Edgar's Tools were a bit overpowered considering how they didn;t use MPs or require timing/pressing buttons.

Yes; Vanish made all magic have a 100% hit rate, which overrode enemy immunities to instant death spells (seemingly instead of actually making enemies unable to be killed by Death or Stone, they just made them unable to be hit.) And everything that was supposed to deal with physical accuracy pointed at magic instead, so Phys. Evade and the Blind status did absolutely nothing. Not one of Square's finest showings in quality assurance.

I find Edgar's tools to be the most powerful just when you most need them- early game, when you don't have a lot of good options for doing magical and/or area damage. They tend not to be as impressive later on when they're being compared to Sabin's better blitzes and more powerful magic.

[Tempest Fennac]

To be onest, I had problems with getting the more powerful Blitzes to work (I was never that much of a beat 'em up fan if I'm honest). I don't know wat was worse: the fact that the bugs were there in the first place, or the fact that they stayed in the PS1 remake which I own.

[lemonhoney]

Sabin's blitzes were great. Though, the only ones I remember using religiously were Aura Bolt/Fire Dance, and then later on, Bum Rush.

Did anyone go through the trouble of getting all of Mog's dances? I remember that getting his Water dance was a pain in the butt (Because I think you had to leave your airship, go through one of the rivers, and then walk around back to your airship again). They weren't even that useful, but I just had to get it :smallbiggrin:

And while we're on the topic of skills... I completely underestimated Gau. I always shunned him, but early on, he's actually pretty useful with the right Rage s. During the war at Narshe, he totally creamed enemies due to his rages giving him the ability to do nifty Level 2 spells (Bolt 2, Fire 2) before anyone else could. Yummy.

...Of course, after that, I completely forgot about him. :smalltongue:

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Can't pull off Dark Knight in normal FFT, and if Reflexes isn't Blade Catch renamed you did it wrong. Monsters in the Deep Dungeon will OHKO you if they hit, period. They do too much damage per hit for anyone but Reis as a Monk or Dragoner with Equip Armor to survive. Erego, you max out Brave, and equip Blade Catch, which (Since Max brave is 97, due to the game's math) leaves enemies with a 3% chance to hit. Speed is so high that the only spell enemies have access too that's worth a darn is Slow (Which is crippling), and the only non-physical attacks that can be launched that are useful are Tiamat Breath Attacks and Choco-Meteor (The former can be handled with Flame Shields; Do note that in the original Tiamat Breath and Choco-Meteor aren't subject to M-EV :P)

1. I forget my original FFT build, one of the many memories I lost in my accident.

2. Reflexes is the Ninja ability that doubles the evasion percentages of a unit. With a Featherweave Cloak, that means that attacks (at most) get a maximum of 20% chance to hit you, and spells get 40%. This cap doesn't change regardless of what side you are attacked from. Heck, that doesn't take into account the 56% evasion tossed into the mix by the doubled Ice Shield or the 62% granted by the Fire one (either shield works really, not many units can deal water damage).

3. Again, Slow doesn't stand much of a chance to get you. If it does, you still can't really be touched AND with Arithmatics, you can just re-Haste or dispell slow. What's worse is wearing Reflect mail, and gaining immunity in the first place.

4. The breath attacks cannot be evaded, this is true. However, with the Rubber suit and the Ice Shield you are Immune to Lightning, take half damage from Fire, and are healed by Ice (if it hits). With how random the Hydra breath attacks are, the odds of getting hit by the lethal number of 3 is slim unless you are terrible at positioning yourself.

5. Choco meteor is a PAIN IN THE BUTT! It's an auto hit that deals enough damage to turn every other attack against you into a evade or die scenario. Red Chocobo eat Sanguine Sword as soon as they get within range. :smallfurious: Hell, I raise them in order to do it twice sometimes.

[Tempest Fennac]

I liked Mog's Dances, but I never got the water-based one. Admittedly, I never liked Gau that much due to how he can only use 2 attacks once you've chosen a Rage (he can be powerful, though: I think one Rage granted access to Meteor later on in the game).

[Rutee]

1. I forget my original FFT build, one of the many memories I lost in my accident.

2. Reflexes is the Ninja ability that doubles the evasion percentages of a unit. With a Featherweave Cloak, that means that attacks (at most) get a maximum of 20% chance to hit you, and spells get 40%. This cap doesn't change regardless of what side you are attacked from. Heck, that doesn't take into account the 56% evasion tossed into the mix by the doubled Ice Shield or the 62% granted by the Fire one (either shield works really, not many units can deal water damage).

3. Again, Slow doesn't stand much of a chance to get you. If it does, you still can't really be touched AND with Arithmatics, you can just re-Haste or dispell slow. What's worse is wearing Reflect mail, and gaining immunity in the first place.

4. The breath attacks cannot be evaded, this is true. However, with the Rubber suit and the Ice Shield you are Immune to Lightning, take half damage from Fire, and are healed by Ice (if it hits). With how random the Hydra breath attacks are, the odds of getting hit by the lethal number of 3 is slim unless you are terrible at positioning yourself.

5. Choco meteor is a PAIN IN THE BUTT! It's an auto hit that deals enough damage to turn every other attack against you into a evade or die scenario. Red Chocobo eat Sanguine Sword as soon as they get within range. :smallfurious: Hell, I raise them in order to do it twice sometimes.

2. That's Abandon. Blade Catch is better. The only useful skill that can hit you, while being subject to M.EV, is Slow. And Excalibur (I didn't like Kn Swords, just out of principle) makes you immune to slow by granting you an undispellable Haste. Abandon with Max Brave is effective immunity to all physical attacks, many of which aren't subject to P-EV but /are/ subject to Blade Catch (See: Guns)

4. The only breath attack that's scary is Fire Breath, and the only monster-based Water attack is Aqua Soul, and Skellies have crappy MA.

And, I liked Gau. I found forms that had more then two attacks though.. one of my favorites for the first stretch of the game is the Templar, which has a good weapon, Critical, and Fire 2.

As to Vanish Doom.. that wasn't a bug. It was unintended, but not a bug. Vanish is supposed to make you vulnerable to all magic. Doom is magic...

[Hadrian_Emrys]

2. Abandon got renamed to Vanish. That skill is only useful for bards and dancers. I'm talking about the other Ninja skill.

4. True, but that occational Geomancer will rock your world with Torrent or Quicksand. I'd rather take my chances for half damage from Fire than an auto hit and a chance of toad/doom with water.

[Calamity]

As VIII goes.. it's way too easy to break that game. Try 100 Death as your weapon status junction. Or put a stack of Hastes on Speed. Then equip the Auto-Haste GF ability and walk around with your HP in or near critical to trigger Limit Breaks. Random encounters cry.. Renzokuken! Duel! Renzokuken! Duel! Renzokuken, Lionheart triggers! GG.

Heh, I junctioned 100 deaths to Squall's attack... then got attacked by a Malboro's Bad Breath (causes pratically all status ailments, including confuse) and it had him OHKO my party one by one...

FF8 is only FF I have, (well actually I have FFT: War of the Lions, which is an awesome game too) and I have to say that FF8 is one my favourite games of all time. I enjoy the junction system, and if I want to use magic I just use Selphie's Slot Limit Break. Another one of my favourite parts is the music because of how much atmosphere it adds.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Heh, I junctioned 100 deaths to Squall's attack... then got attacked by a Malboro's Bad Breath (causes pratically all status ailments, including confuse) and it had him OHKO my party one by one...Well, ST-DEF-J is also important. As is a high initiative/speed when fighting those critters. It's not that one Stat breaks the game, it's how easy it is, with simple grinding, to max all of your stats.

[Mirrinus]

The problem with junctioning Death to your weapon is that that character can't junction Death to status defense. I prefer junctioning Break with the Ribbon ability attached to the character.

You junction Haste to Speed? How non-broken. Try junctioning 100 Triples instead.

Personally, I prefer Angel Wing abuse as my broken method of choice for FF VIII. Rinoa with only Meteor and curative/support spells in her inventory. Junction Meteor to magic, Triple to speed, Auto-haste, and max out her magic with Magic+X% abilities. Then go nuts with her Angel Wing limit break, which will have her cast Meteor every turn for immense damage (many hits each) at very high speeds. It's certainly a lot more consistent than Squall's Renzokuken, and less work than Zell's Duel.

And the card game was way too easy to break the game with. Before the first boss, I can get 100 Tornados junctioned to strength. And, if I really wanted to, 100 Flares after the first boss. X-ATM092, the spider robot boss you're suppose to run away from, I took down very easily by reducing its HP to 0 five or 6 times before it could regenerate using crazy strength junctions and 100 Thundaga junctioned to weapon.

Yeah, the later FFs were much easier to break than the earlier ones. I loved the job system of FF V the most, because it wasn't very easy to break, as even mastering some of the best job combos still left some challenge to the game. Maybe that's why I really liked FF XI back when I played it too; the job/subjob system was extremely reminiscent of FF V. Oh, and I loved what they did with the Blue Mage and Bard jobs there too. And strangely enough, it had a much better story than FF V...(although that's not saying much, is it?)

[Starshade]

VIII? i loved the story, played it, game borrowed from a pal, never got the hang of the junction system, and whent summon, summon, summon, summon. :smallannoyed:

FF's ive played are: barely tried IV, V, played VI a LOT :smallsmile: , love VII, done VIII, and IX, X, and X-2, and now play XII

For some reason im alone among my local pals to like X-2 though. One called it "Final Fantasy for girls".

[Triaxx]

Vanish is what used to be Sunken State. Abandon became reflexes.

And Holy is the trick in FFT. Simply because it was impossibly powerful, and Excal would absorb it as well as assuring a first strike.

As for FF8, I had more fun playing the card game than I did the main game. As for junctioning, after fighting the first real boss I always used L-MagRF to max out my HP junction. Then I could play around for any of the fights I wanted without worrying about my power.

I liked Stop, or Slow for my weapon junction.

[Tirian]

VIII? i loved the story, played it, game borrowed from a pal, never got the hang of the junction system, and whent summon, summon, summon, summon. :smallannoyed:

FF's ive played are: barely tried IV, V, played VI a LOT :smallsmile: , love VII, done VIII, and IX, X, and X-2, and now play XII

For some reason im alone among my local pals to like X-2 though. One called it "Final Fantasy for girls".

The junctions in VIII were huge. Once you understood it, it kind of ruined the game, since you fall into a routine of meet a new enemy, draw 300 of the new elements, and then auto-junction yourself into the stratosphere. And double-lucky if you're playing it on the PC instead of the PlayStation because the minigame is the difference between getting Ribbons early and not getting them at all (IIRC). Great game though, and Quistis was teh hot.

I figured that everyone called X-2 "Final Fantasy for girls". :P The theme is completely about Charlie's Angels Grrl Power, virtually every male character is portrayed as a whiny incompetent jerk (or at least some combination), and frankly the plot can be summed up as chasing boys and finding new clothes.

[Sucrose]

The junctions in VIII were huge. Once you understood it, it kind of ruined the game, since you fall into a routine of meet a new enemy, draw 300 of the new elements, and then auto-junction yourself into the stratosphere. And double-lucky if you're playing it on the PC instead of the PlayStation because the minigame is the difference between getting Ribbons early and not getting them at all (IIRC). Great game though, and Quistis was teh hot.


I still am not especially fond of FFVIII, but I've found a more enjoyable way to get decent junctions than that; just get the magic synthesis abilities for your GFs, and the card to item ability of Quetzalcoatl. You then play Triple Triad (one of the best things about the game anyway), and get the magic you need from the cards that you win. You'd be surprised what you can get pretty easily this way, and it saves you so much grinding.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Vanish is what used to be Sunken State. Abandon became reflexes.

And Holy is the trick in FFT. Simply because it was impossibly powerful, and Excal would absorb it as well as assuring a first strike.

As for FF8, I had more fun playing the card game than I did the main game. As for junctioning, after fighting the first real boss I always used L-MagRF to max out my HP junction. Then I could play around for any of the fights I wanted without worrying about my power.

I liked Stop, or Slow for my weapon junction.

Oh, that's right.

Hell, that would mean the the ideal build would be:
Darkness
Arithmatics
Parry
Dual Wield
Move +3

Chaos Blade
Excalibur
Crystal Helm
Rubber Suit
Sage's Ring

It'd boost Holy twice, and you get healed by all damage dealing spells and spell-like abilities. How evil.

[Starshade]

I figured that everyone called X-2 "Final Fantasy for girls". :P The theme is completely about Charlie's Angels Grrl Power, virtually every male character is portrayed as a whiny incompetent jerk (or at least some combination), and frankly the plot can be summed up as chasing boys and finding new clothes.

Well, the start scene was hopeless, and a lot of the storyline ideas and plots was quite odd, on other side, the game got 2 of the best characters in the FF series: yuna and riku, and the gameplay is good.

The story in itself is quite strange though: former world saver turning to a sphere hunter? The story isnt what id guess fits female players, its junk. Any girls here who prefer THAT game in front of, say, FFX or older FF's? :smallbiggrin:

[Triaxx]

Dual Wield is pointless unless the second weapon is a Runeblade. +2 MA.

Escuteon 2 is better than the Chaos Blade. Admittedly, you could just wield Excalibur and still annihilate anything in the game.

X-2 isn't even worth qualifying as an FF game. It's a play to the Fanboys. Admittedly, it's provoked some amazing fanart.

[Tirian]

Well, the start scene was hopeless, and a lot of the storyline ideas and plots was quite odd, on other side, the game got 2 of the best characters in the FF series: yuna and riku, and the gameplay is good.

As you wish. I think that FFX's contributions to the best characters are Auron and Seymour, although Tara Strong could read the phone book to me. I didn't find the concert hopeless, although I never get how Spirans can get so excited about concerts where only one song is played. To me, the hopelessness came when YRP (and, later, virtually everyone else in Spira) hottubbed in the sacred Ronso springs while insisting on a reverence for Makeout Pond.

Anyway, here are five doomed flaws of X-2, any of which would knock it off the pedestal of best FF game in my opinion. I won't even get into Sphere Break or Blitzball because sensible people can debate whether they were fun: these points are beyond doubt:

Brother: He's some sort of steroid-freak Russian professional wrestler who is stalking his cousin. DO NOT WANT. Can not avoid.

Hypello: Did Jar-Jar Binks go over so well in Japan that they needed an entire tribe of his idiotic speech-impaired clones?

Tidus: I have a hard enough time processing that the designers took the FFX process from start to finish without ever giving a name to the central character, giving the user a tiny bit of freedom but then denying a world of sensible exposition since no voice actor could refer to "you" by name. But THEN they make a sequel with the same error, as if his name had turned into Him. It would be like filming Advent Children conscious of the fact that maybe you didn't originally call the characters Cloud, Tifa, and so on. His name is Tidus, if they admitted that we would have fewer flamewars over here about how to pronounce it.

Wakka, Khimari, Cid, and Issaru: Making a game that appeals to girls does not require turning every male character from the original game into an impotent loser, but they did it anyway. These are four men who had every right to be confident leaders in their own spheres over the past two years, and they all turn into pathetic shadows of themselves. (Clasko started as a pathetic shadow and somehow got worse.) Don't expand on a world by knocking down 2/3 of what was good.

The Calm Lands publicity minigame: Worst. Minigame. Ever. Because it wasn't optional if you wanted to see the ending that you bought the game to see, you had to play the game with a walkthrough on your lap to see which people you had to say which things to.

[Rutee]

Well, the start scene was hopeless, and a lot of the storyline ideas and plots was quite odd, on other side, the game got 2 of the best characters in the FF series: yuna and riku, and the gameplay is good.

The story in itself is quite strange though: former world saver turning to a sphere hunter? The story isnt what id guess fits female players, its junk. Any girls here who prefer THAT game in front of, say, FFX or older FF's? :smallbiggrin:
The plot of FFX-2 was awful. The WRITING of that plot was fantastic, humorous, and snarky, however.


I figured that everyone called X-2 "Final Fantasy for girls". :P The theme is completely about Charlie's Angels Grrl Power, virtually every male character is portrayed as a whiny incompetent jerk (or at least some combination), and frankly the plot can be summed up as chasing boys and finding new clothes.
Uh. Nooj, Baralai, and Ghippal. O'aka XIII. Khimari. Hell, the only incompetent male of the group's Mission Control is Brother! What are you talking about? Wakka wasn't even that incompetent. At least, not unrealistically so. Have you /seen/ prospective fathers who want the kid? They are exactly like that. Sometimes anyway.

[poleboy]

Right, here's a quick rundown of what I think of FF games. This could potentially take up most of the internet, but I'll try to keep it short.

FF 1-3 (NES)

Never played 'em. Probably never will either. I played a DS game that was possibly a remake of one of them and it seemed bland at best. They were probably cool back in the day, but both games and the series has come a long way since then.

FF IV (SNES)

I see this game as the mold for all FF games that followed. It introduced at lot of stables in the series, while also delivering an enjoyable experience and memorable characters and events. It can seem a little naive and cute compared to some of the "darker" games in the series, but it's a good solid game overall with great comic relief and a quite a few dramatic moments.

FF V (SNES)

Never got around to playing it before sometime last year. I wasn't thrilled by it to be honest, and it seemed like a bit of a setback compared to IV. If I really need to play it, let me know.

FF VI (SNES)

Still the best game in my opinion, but I'm a sucker for dystopia and cutesy-yet-expressive 2D anime graphics.
The gameplay isn't a huge step forward compared to IV, but I feel like it's the only game in the series to really capture Amano's drawing style in its graphics (beyond the in-game portraits).
What really does it for me here though, is the story. While some characters are certainly memorable in their own right and others seem more like filler material (Strago and Relm in particular), it's when the whole team is together that they shine. And that is because FF VI is, at its heart, a story about war. Not about epic heroes, magic, monsters and espers, though it certainly contains a truckload of these things. The story is about war, and how it affects people. I loved how your motley crew of heroes are constantly throughout the story (well, the first part anyway) trying to seek allies and unite an actual resistance against the empire instead of the traditional "mm okay we're going to invade the imperial city with a crew of 3-4 people and then improvise from there". It felt so much more real than any other game in the series. FF VI also has a huge number of random and (sometimes) pointless casualties, underlining the rather brutal theme. Gritty, realistic, thought-provoking, and even incredibly funny at times (Gau is comedy genius no matter what you people say :p).

FF VII (PS)

Ah yes... the bastard child. I was rather pissed at square for leaving Nintendo, but I guess whatever works for them. It's a pretty good game but GOD, is it ugly, like 90% of the time. Midgar was cool, the rest was fun at least. Materia system bothered me a bit, I like character classes better than glowing stones. Sephiroth was cool I guess. Cloud was a bit annoying at times, but I liked the whole crazy story behind his past. They kept it well hidden, and it was quite satisfying to finally unravel the whole thing. Good game overall.

FF VIII (PS)

A strange game. It's quite a bit like VII, but most of the characters came across like cardboard-cutouts. I don't know why anyone would enjoy being forced to play a guy who's a whiny loner for no damn reason other than having an excuse for being angsty and wearing black leather coupled with fur. Ugh. Anyway...
The junction system wasn't a terrible idea, but the fact that they made me start the game by taking a goddamn test about it that made NO SENSE and was REALLY LONG made me hate it forever. I think they took the whole school-theme way too far, it really ruined the game for me. School simulators are probably big in Japan, but it's not my cup of tea.
The story was a mess too, most of the time. However, the space sequence was beautiful and touching and I loved the card game. Gunblades rock too, so I guess it's not the worst game in the series. It was mostly just too odd for me. And when it wasn't odd, it was trivial instead.

FF IX (PS)

Also only got around to playing it a year or so ago. Never finished it for some reason. I mostly liked it, but it was hard not to compare it to X, and while some things about it were certainly better, I could never really get into the world and had a hard time caring about the huge cast of (mostly) wacky characters.

FF X

Blitzball sucks. Tidus sucks. The game is okay. It's certainly beautiful most of the time, and the setting was refreshingly different in many ways. But the story was mostly boring and a lot of the things I didn't like about VIII repeat themselves here. Equipment system was wacky and random. I played it mostly for the cutscenes :/

FF XI

Never played.

FF XII

The new combat system is awesome for everyone who do not enjoy pressing the same button every 3 seconds to input the same command as last round. It has a lot of flaws (why only one condition for each action?), but I'm sure they'll fix like... half of those for the next game. And WHY do I have to play as Tidus AGAIN!? If it's about popularity, why didn't they just make a naked hermaphrodite Sephiroth (thus appealing to freaks of both genders) the main character? :/
Balthier was kinda cool, but ultimately one-dimensional and a bit cliché. I couldn't care the slightest about anyone else.

[Tempest Fennac]

If I'm honest, I liked the plot to FFX (it reminds me a lot of a police drama which was on TV at one point called Life on Mars*), and I enjoyed playing Blitzball (it was a waste of time in X-2, sadly).


*I doubt that LoM ripped off FF 10 due to the initial idea for the show being written a few years before FF 10 was released.

[Triaxx]

If you haven't played 1, you're missing out. It's the hardest game of the series, though not in it's GBA version. I have it on the NES and it's amazing. It's also the only one I've never completed.

8 could have been so much better without Rinoa.

9 was awesome. The love story was interwoven so tightly into the plot that it felt real, instead of the tacked on feel of 8's.

I refuse to play X, or X-2.

I can't wait for a chance to play 12. No-PS2.

[Vulion]

My favorite Final Fantasies are Tactics, IV and IX in that order.

All three had really good plots and characters I generally loved and systems that worked for the games. Tactics had the feeling of a battle rather than merely a fight, IV was just all things that made classic fantasy good put into game form and IX was steampunkish joyride. Each had it's moments that just made me grin as I played.

IX gets major points just for the awesome cinematic before you enter the final dungeon (the name eludes me). Rushing an army of dragons, the Lindblum air force coming in to save your as, the Red Rose flying in and smashing all those dragons out of the sky. Pure awesome.

[Triaxx]

That would be the Iifa tree. Or memoria, depending on your perception.

[Tirian]

If you haven't played 1, you're missing out. It's the hardest game of the series, though not in it's GBA version. I have it on the NES and it's amazing. It's also the only one I've never completed.

I'm currently going through the games in order on my PS2, and am halfway through II right now.

The original is definitely hard, although I think that a lot of it is because there is no Ether or Phoenix Down and the later dungeons are sadistically long. (On the plus side, there are dungeon maps on gamefaqs, which isn't true of II.) I won the game in about 30 hours with level 42 characters. The original class choice seems very important -- I went with Warrior, Monk, Red Mage, White Mage and I highly recommend it.

I am surprised at how much I'm loving II at the moment. The character system is totally revolutionary compared with the rest of the series. No classes, no levels. If you want to be a "Black Mage" wearing plate mail, you can (although your spells won't hit as hard as someone wearing lighter armor). You gain proficiency in weapons and spells by using them, and you gain attributes by needing them. For instance, if you lose more than half your HP in a single battle, chances are good that your max HP will go up at the end of the battle. There of plenty of ways to exploit the system that the designers didn't close (frex, you can have 9999 HP before entering the first dungeon just by standing outside the starting town and wailing on each other to raise your max HP for hours on end), but it would be interesting to see how the system would work in a game that held to the spirit of that ideal.

[Tempest Fennac]

I selected those classes when playing the PS1 remake of FF1. I ever knew heavy armour could hinder magic either (my problem with FF2 is that it takes ages to build stats and proficiencies).

[tyckspoon]

(my problem with FF2 is that it takes ages to build stats and proficiencies).

Only if you play the sucker's game of trying to do it 'right' by fighting monsters. They mostly die too fast to advance your attack stats and don't do enough damage to raise your defenses. It's far more efficient to just whale on your other party members a bit (raise attack, weapon skills, magic skills, magic attack, target's HP and defenses) and then heal them (raising Spirit and Cure skill.)

[Triaxx]

I never managed to get farther than the Poison Dragons. They'd kill the entire party and I just couldn't damage them enough to survive.

[Tengu]

I hate how mind numbingly-boring is grinding in FF2, and how imbalanced and Nitendo Hard is it without grinding. The stat increasing system was supposed to be revolutionary, but ended up absurd (some stats can go down when others go up! And that's just the tip of the iceberg). It took me ages to go through that airship scenario, and I stopped playing soon after that, when you get the pirate captain for your team. That's the only FF game I didn't enjoy at all.

Well, it does have a good overworld theme.

[Tempest Fennac]

Actually, I was attacking my own party members while making fights last as long as possible (it still took a long time to achieve anything, though).

[Tirian]

Actually, I was attacking my own party members while making fights last as long as possible (it still took a long time to achieve anything, though).

That's good for the first few quests, but casting Swap on an easy monster is faster and safer and will buff your MP at the same time. Take off your armor beforehand, as this will remove the undocumented hidden Spirit penalties and make the spell much more likely to hit. The spell is in Mystidia -- sneak in there as soon as you get the pirate queen in your party.

The one thing that I can't figure out is why weapon proficiency freezes. I go through a dungeon and exit and realize that my sword stat is where it was at the beginning, and then I get frustrated and have that character attack twenty times and the game goes "Oh, yeah, that", and it starts rising again. Sigh.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for the advice (I don't actually have any intentions of playing through the game again, though). I'm assuming that it was a bug with the weapon experience.

[lemonhoney]

IX gets major points just for the awesome cinematic before you enter the final dungeon (the name eludes me). Rushing an army of dragons, the Lindblum air force coming in to save your as, the Red Rose flying in and smashing all those dragons out of the sky. Pure awesome.

Holy crap, yes. And also, the theme that plays during that scene (Skirmish with the Silver Dragons) is one of my favourite FF themes of all time.

IX's beginning sequence was just awesome also. The whole thing was so theatrical and fun. I really miss that game. :smallfrown:

[Tempest Fennac]

Ironically, the start of the game annoyed me due to how long the cut scene lasted (I wish it had been possible to skip those).