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perpetualnoise
2008-04-10, 06:56 AM
Im just wondering what exactly is a diplomancer. Is it someone with maxed out diplomacy with feats and such to boost it or is it a style of play? thxs

Dode
2008-04-10, 07:03 AM
Yes.

Basically you get your + to diplomacy in the triple digits. Then you walk to everyone you meet and go "plz give me all ur money" and then they go "ok".

kamikasei
2008-04-10, 07:04 AM
Diplomacy has fixed DCs. A half-elf with maxed Diplomacy, a few skill-boosting feats, and some synergies has a ridiculously easy time hitting those DCs ridiculously early. A diplomancer is a build that practices diplomancy, the magical art of talking everyone you come across into becoming your best friend and dying for you.

edit: Example. You're a half-elf (+2) bard (for class skills) with 18 charisma (+4). You take the feats negotiator (+2) and skill focus: diplomacy (+3). You put five ranks each into bluff, knowledge: nobility and royalty, and sense motive (+2 each). You now have a +17 to diplomacy before you put any skill points into it. Let's say you're tenth level with the skill maxed (+13). That gives you a total of +30 to diplomacy, which lets you turn any hostile person indifferent or any indifferent person friendly on a roll of 1. If you can take ten (I'm not sure if that's allowed), you can take a -10 on the check to reduce the time required to a full-round action and still pull it off. That's all core, in fact all SRD. And that's without factoring in any bonuses from magic or items to either your skill or your charisma. And as Sstoopidtallkid points out, it's without getting into any of the really broken stuff.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-10, 07:04 AM
Maxed Diplomacy through feats, synergies, maybe items, race choice, and spells. My build got a +60 mod sticking to core without using a ring of +30 to the skill. (only 90,000 GP) Out of core, the current record is +222. It's hideously broken, as the check to make someone a Fanatical supporter of you over the course of one round is only DC 160. My build only needs one round to make you helpful, or so good of a friend you give me gear at a reduced price. :smallbiggrin:

Kurald Galain
2008-04-10, 07:17 AM
This build (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-452425) gets a +94 by level 6. It's not the world record, but it should give you an idea of how ridiculous it can get.

Oh yeah, let's not forget this variation (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=943738) that makes people fanatical by jumping over their heads for a minute. In one action. With a +370 check result.

kamikasei
2008-04-10, 07:21 AM
This build (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-452425) gets a +94 by level 6. It's not the world record, but it should give you an idea of how ridiculous it can get.

Oh yeah, let's not forget this variation (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=943738) that makes people fanatical by jumping over their heads for a minute. In one action. With a +370 check result.

I feel like such an underachiever. On the other hand I think possibly making a venerable magic-blooded anything with an item familiar and cohort is the mark of an overachiever...

perpetualnoise
2008-04-10, 07:43 AM
ohhhhhhh i could have so much fun with this :smallamused:

mostlyharmful
2008-04-10, 07:52 AM
I feel like such an underachiever. On the other hand I think possibly making a venerable magic-blooded anything with an item familiar and cohort is the mark of an overachiever...

Console yourself with the idea that yours is a perfectly valid build that could be used in play and doesn't even qualify as cheese. Infact it's so normal it could quite easily be stumbled over by anyone who just wanted to play a friendly character.:smalleek:

And to the OP.. dont... really just don't. politeness leads to courtesy. Courtesy leads to friendship. Friendship leads to Mindraped minions of DOOOOOMMMM!!! Or something along those lines.:smallredface:

Person_Man
2008-04-10, 08:21 AM
Keep in mind that many DMs house rule Diplomacy DC's, instead of using what's published in the PHB. And even if they don't, abusing Diplomacy too much is just asking your DM to throw more non-intelligent enemies at you. I find that its best to get your Diplomacy into the 30's (so that you can win any "reasonable" check) and then focus on other things.

Also, consider 1 level of Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b). It gives you Skill Focus Diplomacy for free, and you can take Motivate Charisma for your aura, which doubles your Cha bonus on all Skills and checks. Once you get all the Skill synergies and max ranks in the social Skills, you're pretty much set. From there you can head into Paladin, Knight, Bard, Hexblade, Crusader, whatever. Around ECL 11 pick up one level of Exemplar for another +4 and the ability to Take 10 on Int bonus # of Skills, plus access to UMD if you don't have it already (Wand of Eagle's Splendor, etc).

TheCountAlucard
2008-04-10, 09:33 AM
Yeah, Diplomacy as is can be a big problem. Thankfully, none of my players rolled up a Diplomancer. I'm using the Giant's suggested change to the Diplomacy rules for my games, by the way.

nerulean
2008-04-10, 01:33 PM
You'll probably find that your DM will start houseruling diplomacy long before you reach true Diplomancer levels, although it's hard to argue that someone still hates you after you've just got a fifty on your check.

The best way to get a diplomacy check to work is to add a roleplay explanation to whatever you just rolled, and not aim for too much. Evil pirate just boarded your ship and started slaughtering your crew? Compare the two:

"I roll a 56 diplomacy to get him to stop."

"My young, pretty, female bard gazes up at the pirate with enormous brown eyes and starts very quietly sobbing in horror at what she sees. She's not trying to stop him, just to make him pause for long enough for the swordsage to get in behind him and stab his kidney out. I roll a 56 diplomacy."

Mushroom Ninja
2008-04-10, 03:32 PM
The true bane of the Diplomancer is when the DM decides that it doesn't work because of varrying reasons (Eg: The enemy is insane and thus immune to diplomacy, or the enemy is now your best friend... but he still wants to kill you, or no, you can't use diplomacy on this guy).

Keld Denar
2008-04-10, 04:01 PM
Actually, I think the world record for diplomacy is a variant on Chuck, the Ruby Knight Windicator. You can squeeze in most of the goodness that is Chuck, and still have room for 5 levels of Exemplar to let you use Jump to replace Diplomacy. Then you discharge a DMM Persisted Extended Footsteps of the Divine to gain a movement speed of like, ~60,000 which gives you a jump check bonus of like, ~200,000 and then make a jump over the sun and back down in place of a diplomacy check (via Exemplar) to instantly make everyone who sees your heroic feat throw their lives, money, and virginity at your feet.

The end.

Chronos
2008-04-10, 04:53 PM
Yeah, Exemplar's Persuasive Performance ability just makes it all too easy to stumble upon. I recently made a character who optimized Hide, and then noticed that if he went on a hide-nova, he could get his check up to 128, and that he had Skill Artistry in it and enough Exemplar levels for Persuasive Performance, which means that without even trying to max Diplomacy, that character could still take folks straight from Unfriendly to Fanatic.

Keld Denar
2008-04-10, 05:31 PM
Yeah, Exemplar's Persuasive Performance ability just makes it all too easy to stumble upon. I recently made a character who optimized Hide, and then noticed that if he went on a hide-nova, he could get his check up to 128, and that he had Skill Artistry in it and enough Exemplar levels for Persuasive Performance, which means that without even trying to max Diplomacy, that character could still take folks straight from Unfriendly to Fanatic.

He can make people like him who can't even see him!!! Love it!

Chronos
2008-04-10, 06:50 PM
He can make people like him who can't even see him!!! Love it!The really funny part, to me, is trying to figure out how Joe Commoner with no ranks in Spot can tell the difference between a 20 Hide check and a 120 Hide check. "Where did that guy just go? I'd better watch my wallet", vs. "Where did that guy just go? When he comes back, I'll follow him to the ends of the Earth!".

Collin152
2008-04-10, 06:56 PM
Mindraped minions of DOOOOOMMMM!!!

Hark! Who issues forth my battlecry?

Ascension
2008-04-10, 08:37 PM
I tried to diplomance the other night. Sort of. Actually, I tried to bluffomance. I've maxed bluff on my sorcerer (I miiiiiight be taking him into malconvoker, but even if I decide not to, I want bluff regardless) and of course I have a high CHA bonus, being... well... a sorcerer.

After killing an entire fort full of hobgoblins, we found a letter which, among other things, said that the guards in this tunnel under the fort had been instructed to give the hobbo army free passage through the tunnels. Well, the bossy gnome fighter who's the de facto leader of the party insisted that we go explore these tunnels, despite my (IC) protests that it's too dangerous. When we come upon the guards (who, by the way, are of no race I recognize), I tell the DM that I whip out the letter that we found, present it to the guards, and announce that we travel under the authority of "L" (the mysterious author of the letter). I roll a bluff check, he rolls the sense motive, giving them insane circumstance bonuses for "the sheer improbability of this plan actually working." I can tell by the look on his face that I still beat his check by a mile. He quickly tells me that they don't speak common, but they do think I look important, and so they ask me to show them what I'm asking them to do. I understand them because one of the party members has a helm of comprehend languages (something he keeps forgetting), and so I pantomime opening a door. He has me roll another bluff check, and again, I pass with flying colors. Finally he has one of the guards open the door... and say that he has to check with his boss. Not wanting to allow him to do that, the gnome shoots him in the back with a poisoned crossbow bolt, and the battle is on. The DM breathes a visible sigh of relief.

So, in my experience... the DM will eventually find a way around it. Still fun to try, though. :smallbiggrin:

It's been quite fun(ny) attempting to suggest non-combat solutions to a hack-n-slash party consisting of myself and of two fighters (The gnome and a dwarf. The NPC healer's a halfling. I'm the only tall one in the party.).