View Full Version : If you have ever been a DM, please help.

Kayoden Usoden
2008-04-10, 12:27 PM
I am currently working on a campaign, but am having a little bit of trouble.

The main snag is the players. Some might ask: “How so?”

Let me share some stuff with :

Six level threes (the players) Vs. Six level eighteens (DM)

At the end of the fight all of the eighteens were dead and only two of the PCs barely even injured.

They also have a nasty habit of killing bosses in less than 4 rounds.

After some thought, I decided to throw caution to the wind and make them roll up level twenties.

I would have to guess that there will be 5-7 players.

For those who think I am lying, let be clear something up:

#1 No I am not lying, this did happen.
#2 the levels are correct
#3 they started out, more or less, naked in jail
#4 we do “called shots” (I don't remember the penalties)
#5 one of them is a retired air force major who used helped with the practice / training scenarios.
#6 another is the MacGyver of weapons. Give him a toothpick, and he can kill a dragon. (not literally)
#7 when we mess up, we mess up big i.e. turning a stealth rescue mission in to blow up the hole village and leave no survivors (that was a "fun" game)

Let me sum up the campaign:

the party must stop the "Eyes of Haedren" form opening. If they do open, good bye planet.

The dungeon is a giant machine designed to open up the “Hell-Zone Rift”

The HZR links the gray waste of Hades, the nine hells, and negative energy plane to the material plane.

The place is guarded by constructs, war forged, demons/devils, and several wizards/sorcerers.

Why do I need help?

I tend to go from “to easy” to “you now face a planet-killer”.

2008-04-10, 12:32 PM
How the heck did they manage that? Someone's breaking some rules, or the players are really good at strategy where the DM is not. Throwing harder challenges at them will not fix this problem, the problem needs to be fixed by figuring out where the DM is unable to defeat them.

2008-04-10, 12:39 PM
You need to give us some more information. How did six level 3s defeat six level 18s? Six 3s should not be able to defeat one level 18. 60 level threes might be able to defeat a level 18, depending on his build.

2008-04-10, 12:39 PM
wait, the hell can a level 3 character defeat a level 18 character at all? How is that even possible mathematically without pun-pun-ing it? I just don't get it. I mean, just numerically it's almost impossible for a level 3 character to even TOUCH a level 18, let alone killing them! And we're talking about THREE of them! Not 1 v 3, but 3v3! WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?

2008-04-10, 12:43 PM
I was thinking feral goliaths with no level adjustment but that would still be wrong. Seriously, more info needed.

2008-04-10, 01:12 PM
Here's my take on the situation:
There are things at work that you don't understand. I would venture to guess that these things are: Game Mechanics.

Tell us exactly what your player characters are, including race, class levels, feats, and equipment. We'll be sure to get back to you.

Wow...Ninja'd like a mo'fo'.

2008-04-10, 01:17 PM
Maybe they were level 18 commoners?

2008-04-10, 01:18 PM
Seriously, even level 18 Samurai Gnomes could beat three 3's, you either didn't actually make them level 18, or they're crazy munchkining.

2008-04-10, 01:18 PM
Yeah - this seems kind of impossible if you're interpretting all the games rules correctly and not losing on purpose. Need details.

2008-04-10, 01:18 PM
Alright, first off: what magic items do they have?

2008-04-10, 01:27 PM
I haven't seen many around here, this might be a first...

Troll thread?

2008-04-10, 01:53 PM
Here's what you have to do.

1st check your dice, make sure they are balanced properly. The fancy math method is called the Chi-square Goodness of Fit test. A simpler way do is to roll the die 10 times the number of sides it has. Keep a running tally of the results. If one side appears more than twice the number of sides on the die, and another appears only once or twice, put the die away and repeat the test. If you get a similar result, toss the die.

2nd Let the NPC's hurt the players. Don't baby them. let bad things happen. Have a thief steal their potions. Have the evil wizardcast a spell to negate their magic items. Let the Berserker barbarian break the PC Paladin's +5 holy avenger.

3rd let the dice fall where they may. don't let the PC's reroll that botch.

4th Give them a reason not to kill the evil NPC
Very little should be given for free. ("Oh, I can tell you that . . . for a price")
Villains should seem to know more than the characters.

5th check this site

2008-04-10, 01:58 PM
I declare shenanigans. Obvious BS. The question is, why?

2008-04-10, 02:10 PM
I must sincerely question the validity of the OP. There's... just no way.

Ok... so maybe somebody really, really, really screwed up calculated ECL.... but even so....:smallconfused:

2008-04-10, 02:15 PM
I thought it to be nonsense for a while, but this would be a heck of a way for somebody with an account from last year to go.
Yeah...I'd declare this thread dead, if I had that power.
I do, however have the power to declare this post to be "poopoodiddles."

2008-04-11, 06:49 AM
... reread your source books especially the combat section.

Unless your "lvl 3's" are all weilding equipment that you custom made:

+5 Mithril Full Plate of stoneskin that has cast wish 2 times per day
+5 Vorpal Keen Edge rapier with ability drain on a crit

There is no way they should statistically be able to beat a SINGLE lvl 18, much less 6.

One helpful trick I use when I note my "Named Bad Guys" (Whom I wish to be reoccuring) are being continually slaughtered in 1-2 rounds is to double their HP.

2008-04-11, 07:09 AM
I haven't seen many around here, this might be a first...

Troll thread?

If you think so, that's what the "report" button on the bottom of his post is for, or the moderators might not pick up on it.

As for the OP, sounds like generally, yes, it's your strategy that seems to be an issue, not so much your players. But we can't know for sure since you haven't provided details.

Also, if you're new to GMing, I'd try running a core-only campaign first (if you are not). There's a lot of stuff in splatbooks that can seriously break things if you don't know what you're doing, and it's important to learn the basic rules before adding on to them. Once you're comfortable with core, splat away.

2008-04-11, 08:08 AM
I dunno, it might be possible, if the six level 18s are not spellcasters and have absolutely no possessions, and each PC has dodeca-uple* the standard wealth-by-level.

*I doubt dodeca-uple is a word, considering I just made it up. Gimme a dollar.

2008-04-11, 08:23 AM
1) Make a level eighteen fighter. Put his highest stat in Str, or PB it up to 18. But everything else in Con. Take Power attack and the Weapon Focus/specialization line. Have him wield a greatsword. All his points on level up go into Str. Make him an Orc.

2) Now have him move and attack, power attack for four. He is now swinging at +24 for 2d6+24 damage. Power attack for more if they have lower HP.

This is a pretty crappy character. He is also capable of killing one level 3 per round by moving and attacking. This is with absolutely no magic items at all, and still tons of feats left to spend, also Core.

There is pretty much no way that a party of 3 level 3 characters could beat even the crappiest level 18 characters.