Redcloak's Next Move? [SoD Spoilers] [Use of the M-word]

[FujinAkari]

Ok. Redcloak has a problem. He knows two things, which seemingly contradict themselves.

1) O-chul does not know anything about the other gates.
2) The Sapphire Guard actively hunt the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, something that could only occur if they were in contact with the other gates.

((Explaination: We know that the Gods have taken an oath not to directly interfere with the fate of the world, since that is what created the Snarl in the first place, therefore it is logical to assume that the Sapphire Guard did -not- learn of the Crimson Mantle from the 12-gods. Additionally, we know that Redcloak was initially unaware of the existence of more than one gate. From this, we can conclude that prior bearers of the Crimson Mantle could only have moved against Lirian's Gate, and that the Sapphire Guard could only have learned of the danger inherent within the Crimson Mantle by communicating with Lirian.))

If redcloak comes to this realization, his next move will be to find out who the leaders of the Sapphire Guard were, a question which has 4 correct answers:

Soon: Knowing about Soon does a whole lot of nothing for Redcloak. His body is who-knows-where, and he died of old age, so he can't be brought back.

Shojo: Similar to Soon, no one has any clue where his body ended up, and even if they DID find it, Shojo refused a resurrection from his OWN cleric, no way in hell he'll pop back up now.

Hinjo: Some interesting story development here... knowledge of Hinjo's survival could prompt Redcloak to set -him- as their next destination, rather than the next Gate. This could lead to a duel-story, with Haley, Belkar, and Celia squaring off with the Linear Guild in Greysky City, while Hinjo, Durkon, V, and Elan have to deal with Redcloak and Xykon.

Miko: DUN DUN DUN!!!! This is the most interesting possibility. Teevo was recording Miko's every move until she died, and Tsukiko probably knows where she ended up, meaning she is the most accessable of the four leaders. Additionally, she knows a lot of information that Redcloak doesn't, not the least of which that the Order of the Stick is actively working to twart Team Evil. At the moment, I don't believe Team Evil is aware that the high level characters they keep running into are the SAME GUYS, and the revelation that they are would promote the OOTS from obstacle to enemy.

Additionally, this interrogation might be enough to FINALLY snap Miko out of her funk and make her realize that the OOTS are actually somewhat good guys... which would do a lot to move her towards redemption, if that is where the story goes.

I know, I know, "MIKO IS DEAD!" I don't know that I -want- this to happen, but it occured to me and seems plausible.

Thoughts?

[RMS Oceanic]

A Miko interrogation could be fun and character-building, but I daresay the logistics required to reach this position seem rather insurmountable. Like Shojo, Miko will most certainly refuse a resurrection offer from an evil cleric, and the time limit on speak with dead has long since past.

[Mauve Shirt]

I've thought the same thing about how the heck the SG knows about the CM. They definitely knew about what it is and what the bearer is trying to do, since one of them says "One among you threatens the very fabric of reality!" or something when attacking Redcloak's village. But Soon is lawful, and wouldn't communicate with Lirian.

Shojo, Soon and Miko are incredibly unlikely.
I like the Hinjo idea, but I really hope it doesn't happen because I want the OOTS to get back together soon.

[FujinAkari]

Like Shojo, Miko will most certainly refuse a resurrection offer from an evil cleric, and the time limit on speak with dead has long since past.

True, but a single Dominate Person fixes that... Dominate O-chul and have him resurrect Miko with a scroll. Miko likely doesn't have access to scrying, and would jump at the chance to come back, and since O-chul probably WOULD like an ally, I doubt he'd get a save.


I've thought the same thing about how the heck the SG knows about the CM. They definitely knew about what it is and what the bearer is trying to do, since one of them says "One among you threatens the very fabric of reality!" or something when attacking Redcloak's village. But Soon is lawful, and wouldn't communicate with Lirian.

True enough, that is a problem. The only way I can resolve it is if Lirian sent a message to Soon...

Its weak, but I really can't figure out how the SG were aware any cleaner :P

[RMS Oceanic]

True, but a single Dominate Person fixes that... Dominate O-chul and have him resurrect Miko with a scroll.

Resurrect is a level seven spell, available to clerics, not paladins. Paladins get their own spell list, to a maximum of fourth level at level 14, and O-Chul is more fighter than Paladin. As I understand it, Use Magic Device checks aside, you cannot use scrolls of spells outside your spell list.

[Draz74]

I've thought the same thing about how the heck the SG knows about the CM. They definitely knew about what it is and what the bearer is trying to do, since one of them says "One among you threatens the very fabric of reality!" or something when attacking Redcloak's village. But Soon is lawful, and wouldn't communicate with Lirian.

Could be that the Crimson Mantle has taken action against the Azure gate before, and what they learned about it just didn't get passed on down to Redcloak. This is implied in Strip 277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html).

Or it could be that they just ran into the Crimson Mantle by chance while executing the "purge of all information on the rifts and gates from libraries" mentioned a moment later. Maybe the goblins were visiting the same libraries.

[Remirach]

From this, we can conclude that prior bearers of the Crimson Mantle could only have moved against Lirian's Gate, and that the Sapphire Guard could only have learned of the danger inherent within the Crimson Mantle by communicating with Lirian.
Soon fought alongside Lirian against one of the prior Crimson Mantle bearers. It's unfortunate that Soon isn't seen in the SoD panel where we witness the Scribble Order wiping out a previous Redcloak and his allies, but we know Lirian and Soon were the first two members of the Scribble, so he was definitely a member of the party and likely just off-panel.

It's true that the only Gate the Crimson Mantle ever initially threatened was Lirian's. But the Mantle WOULD threaten Azure City's Gate if he or she learned of it, and there wouldn't be a reason to assume the goblins DIDN'T know of the other Gates -- Lirian fell into this exact trap and thus accidentally told Xykon about the other four Gates.


Additionally, she knows a lot of information that Redcloak doesn't, not the least of which that the Order of the Stick is actively working to twart Team Evil. At the moment, I don't believe Team Evil is aware that the high level characters they keep running into are the SAME GUYS, and the revelation that they are would promote the OOTS from obstacle to enemy.

In 110 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html) and 112 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html) Roy declared his oath to destroy Xykon. Redcloak was standing right next to him and got to watch him be blown up, even.

Xykon tends to be a bit sketchy on details, but Redcloak seems to recall this incident pretty clearly.

371 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html)
Miko: Then the Order of the Stick lied! They did NOT destroy you!
Xykon: The who?
Redcloak: (From the dungeon.)
Xykon: Oh, right. Bluepommel and his buddies.

426 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0426.html)
Redcloak: Interesting... Greenhilt is here, with his Order of the Stick...

[SPoD]

1) O-chul does not know anything about the other gates.
2) The Sapphire Guard actively hunt the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, something that could only occur if they were in contact with the other gates.

((Explaination: We know that the Gods have taken an oath not to directly interfere with the fate of the world, since that is what created the Snarl in the first place, therefore it is logical to assume that the Sapphire Guard did -not- learn of the Crimson Mantle from the 12-gods. Additionally, we know that Redcloak was initially unaware of the existence of more than one gate. From this, we can conclude that prior bearers of the Crimson Mantle could only have moved against Lirian's Gate, and that the Sapphire Guard could only have learned of the danger inherent within the Crimson Mantle by communicating with Lirian.))

You're overthinking this. According to SoD, the Crimson Mantle was created BEFORE the Gates were built, and the Order of the Scribble tangled with the then-current bearer of it. Thus, Soon founded the Sapphire Guard already knowing about the Crimson Mantle and the threat goblins posed to the Gates--knowledge which he passed down to his heirs.

EDIT: Ninja'd by slow server! Curses!

[Morgan Wick]

Hinjo: Some interesting story development here... knowledge of Hinjo's survival could prompt Redcloak to set -him- as their next destination, rather than the next Gate. This could lead to a duel-story, with Haley, Belkar, and Celia squaring off with the Linear Guild in Greysky City, while Hinjo, Durkon, V, and Elan have to deal with Redcloak and Xykon.

Haley/Belkar/Celia are headed for (and the Linear Guild "left their magic items in") Cliffport, not Greysky. This could lead to the situation where Redcloak and Xykon approach Hinjo at the exact moment Haley and Belkar make contact with V/Elan/Durkon, tearing those three between helping Hinjo fight Redcloak and meeting back up with their teammates. That device could be used to explain how this encounter doesn't definitively end one way or another, or how it doesn't result in Redcloak and the OOTS essentially racing each other to Girard's Gate virtually right next to each other.

But of course this entire thread may be moot...


Miko: DUN DUN DUN!!!! This is the most interesting possibility. Teevo was recording Miko's every move until she died, and Tsukiko probably knows where she ended up, meaning she is the most accessable of the four leaders.

How? Tsukiko was with Miko when they were briefly both in jail, and then saw Miko's corpse after Miko died. Explain in a way that doesn't suggest Tsukiko knows where Soon and certainly Shojo are too.

[Theodoriph]

From this, we can conclude that prior bearers of the Crimson Mantle could only have moved against Lirian's Gate, and that the Sapphire Guard could only have learned of the danger inherent within the Crimson Mantle by communicating with Lirian.))

The simplest answer is usually the best and in this case, is either the 12 gods told them the bearer of the crimson mantle threatened the fabric of reality or there was a prophecy.

I assume that because of the Paladin's line "The Twelve Gods have judged your hearts and found them to be Evil. Further, one among you threatens the very foundation of creation itself." It suggests divine guidance (though said Paladin could simply be speaking rhetorically). Though the fact that the Sapphire Guard is most likely operating outside of their gods' jurisdiction (R.C. is more than 1000 miles North of the Southern Lands, which is probably more than "half a continent away" further supports the idea that some divine guidance (via direct intervention or prophecy) likely encouraged their actions.

Finally, given that Shojo's not being a Paladin was surprising, it's likely that most of the other leaders of the sapphire guard were...and they would have upheld Soon's Oath.

[Gamerlord]

if miko returned to life,rich whould lose A LOT of readers