Hexblades?

[DraPrime]

So I was thinking of playing a hexblade in a new campaign that my group is doing. I'm just wondering what's the playground's opinion on them. Too weak? Too strong? And are there any great builds?

[Jack Mann]

They're weak. Essentially, coming as they did at the beginning of 3.5, the designers overestimated the power of some of their abilities. Somewhere, the original designer posted his own fix. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Found it. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=10585113#post10585113)

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yeah, fixed, the hexblades are pretty good. As is, they're weakish. Not monk or fighter weakish, but not too far above.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, 1-20, not that great of a class, but 4 levels + something else with full BAB and then moving into a PrC like Blackguard or Suel Arcanamach is not a bad start. They have good hit dice, a decent selection of class skills, full BAB, and a few winner spells like Alter Self and Whirling Blade. Not terribad like a monk, especially if you go with the Dark Companion PHBII alt class feature for a decent debuffer before you party arcanes go to town.

[SadisticFishing]

Did you know that a Familiar uses your BAB and half your life?

So actually, a Hexblade using the PHB2 alternate class feature, the feats obtain familiar and improved familiar can be very, very good.

Sample build

Human Hexblade 20, point buy (32): 14/14/14/14/10/14

H Power Attack
1 Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse)
3 Practiced Spellcaster
6 Obtain Familiar
9 Improved Familiar (Winter Wolf, Imp, or a Mephit with Power Attack

After that, it's up to you.

[Dhavaer]

The Dead Levels article on the WotC site giving them prestidigitation at will was the deal sealer for me. Abjurant Champion is a must have if you don't houserule full caster level, though.

[Theodoxus]

I'm currently playing a Hex3/Rog4/OrderotBow2 dwarf. Between mettle and evasion, I'm pretty close to unstoppable vs magic (along with arcane resistance, dwarven saves vs magic, and an excellent chr). He's an archer, using the UA rogue varient to get feats instead of SA. Pretty much as un-dwarf as you can get, but I liked the synergy of all the abilities. I didn't go to 4 in Hex because I didn't want to deal with spells and familiars and whatnot. (Although I'm trying to pick up a couple of wands, since the Hexblade spell-list is pretty sweet.)

I think I'm going to try to get my DM to allow some of the Mike Mearl upgrades though... especially the Fort... my fort is my lowest save. :)

Theo

[Solo]

The Dead Levels article on the WotC site giving them prestidigitation at will was the deal sealer for me. Abjurant Champion is a must have if you don't houserule full caster level, though.

Do Hexblades get Abjuration spells?

[Liliedhe]

With these changes, they might be ok. But as they stand, they suck. I dropped mine after one evening - she was useless^^, a fighter without feats and an useless ability. Maybe, at higher levels, it might work, but the trick is not to get fed up, before you reach them... :smallannoyed:

[mabriss lethe]

Do Hexblades get Abjuration spells?

Looks that way. Dispel Magic is on their spell list.

[Sleet]

They make fun bad guys (mix a goblin hexblade in with a bunch of ordinary goblins and watch the players go "huh?") But I wouldn't play one as a PC.

I'd no idea there was a fix. Must go read that, Ive always liked the idea of hexblades if not the execution...

[JaxGaret]

3 levels in Paladin of Tyranny (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofTyrannyClassF eatures) does wonders for any Hexblade build. Also use the Dark Familiar variant from the PHBII, and you're looking pretty decent.

Add in the suggested update from Mike Mearls posted above, and you're looking at a fairly powerful build. Note that their main class feature, debuffing, synergizes really well with caster party members.

[Dhavaer]

Do Hexblades get Abjuration spells?

A few. Protection From evil, dispel magic, arcane turmoil and the karmic line.

[Chronicled]

I've DMed a party with a hexblade using the Mike Mearls fix (and the Dark Companion variant). With the fixes, they are a very solid contributer; I had to up the CR of their encounters by 1-2 due to his debuffing alone.

[Solo]

3 levels in Paladin of Tyranny (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofTyrannyClassF eatures) does wonders for any Hexblade build. Also use the Dark Familiar variant from the PHBII, and you're looking pretty decent.

Add in the suggested update from Mike Mearls posted above, and you're looking at a fairly powerful build. Note that their main class feature, debuffing, synergizes really well with caster party members.

Or 2 of the Paladin levels and 2 Blackguard levels, for insane Cha. bonus to saves.

[Meat Shield]

Well, thanks to this thread I used hexblades against my party over the weekend. Hexblade triplets actually. It didn't happen in the session, but talking to one of my players after we had a question - would curses from different hexblades stack? I thought it would, he didn't (to be fair, his character would most likely be the subject of multiple curses).

What does everyone think - would multiple hexblades be able to curse a PC multiple times?

[Grynning]

I would guess that they do not, under the same rules as bonuses stacking. Hexblade's Curse is an unnamed penalty, therefore it would not stack with another unnamed penalty from another source.

[Thinker]

I would guess that they do not, under the same rules as bonuses stacking. Hexblade's Curse is an unnamed penalty, therefore it would not stack with another unnamed penalty from another source.

Unnamed bonuses/penalties stack unless they are from the same source. The curse, even from a different character each time, is the same source and so does not stack.

[Meat Shield]

Unnamed bonuses/penalties stack unless they are from the same source. The curse, even from a different character each time, is the same source and so does not stack.

And that was the crux of my argument that they were unnamed and from a different source. But different characters do not necessarily mean different source I guess? That will make my player happy as the hexblades will be back. Guess I need to beef up the hirelings a little bit.

[Person_Man]

As written, Hexblades are playable but generally considered weak.

The Hex is of limited use. Effects from the same source don't stack.

Arcane Resistance is very helpful, but its Cha based (normally a dump stat), and less powerful then Divine Grace.

Mettle will help against a dozen or so nasty things - disintegrate, cloud kill, phantasmal killer, fear effects. But its not as helpful as Evasion.

The familiar has some real potential (because its BAB and hit points are based off of yours). But any caster can get one using a feat. The PHBII Dark Companion variant is also helpful, though it becomes far less useful at higher levels.

Most Gish builds will end up with much better spells, while sacrificing only a few points of BAB and hit points. Most tank builds would be better served by Crusader or Paladin and/or various PrC.

The Hexblade/Blackguard (or Evil variant Paladin) is a good combo. But not all DMs will allow it because they don't understand stacking rules or because they don't allow Evil PCs.

My current favorite mid-level tank is a Lion Totem Barbarian 2/Paladin of Freedom 3/Hellreaver 5 (Fiendish Codex II). Pounce, Rage, Uncanny Dodge, Cha to Saves, immunity to compulsion, immunity to disease, immunity to fear, Good aligned attacks, Mettle, and the ability to heal 20 points or gain other (less useful) bonuses as a Swift Action every round.

[The Mormegil]

I'd give hexes access to the feat Battle Blessing, plus the above. It would be a good class then...

[Kizara]

My work, incorporating the WotC fix and a couple of my own ideas:


Hexblade

-Gain Fortitude as a good save.
-Hexblade’s Curse usable 1+ Cha per day (instead of as listed).
-Hexblade’s Curse is triggered off a successful attack, similarly to Stunning Fist. The hexblade chooses to activate the ability after striking a creature, and retains the per-day use if the creature makes its save.
-Gain the ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler.
-At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.
-At 5th level, the hexblade gains Arcane Burn: He deals an additional 2 points of damage to any spellcasting opponent he strikes in melee and causes them to incur a -1 penalty to their spell-save DCs and CL for one minute. At 9th level this increases to 3 points of damage. At 13th level it increases to 4 points of damage and -2 to spell-saves and CL. At 17th level it increases to 5 points of damage and -3 to spell-saves and CL. The penalty to CL and spell-saves is not cumulative with multiple attacks.
-Add 1 spell per day to each spell level in his progression.

[Draz74]

I've also seen OK builds where Hexblade was just used as an easy way to get into the Dragon Disciple PrC.

[Kyeudo]

Here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=40251)'s a Hexblade based build I made using Rogue, Paladin of Tyranny, and Hexblade. Evasion, Mettle, and Divine Grace coupled with a few luck feats from Complete Scoundrel means this guy should never, ever fail a saving throw. His ability to make any save and ability to debuff his opponent's saving throws make him a big asset to any party or encounter.

I like the Hexblade, but it needed more feat support and more curses availible to truly be as powerful as a straight rogue or psychic warrior.

[Kizara]

Here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=40251)'s a Hexblade based build I made using Rogue, Paladin of Tyranny, and Hexblade. Evasion, Mettle, and Divine Grace coupled with a few luck feats from Complete Scoundrel means this guy should never, ever fail a saving throw. His ability to make any save and ability to debuff his opponent's saving throws make him a big asset to any party or encounter.

I like the Hexblade, but it needed more feat support and more curses availible to truly be as powerful as a straight rogue or psychic warrior.

What sort of feat support would you have liked to have?

Things that improve the curse I would assume, but I want to hear your ideas.

[mabriss lethe]

Heck, I've been thinking of reworking the hexblade to be a 1/2 caster invoker sort of like the warlock (minus eldritch blast, replace with something more in line with the class flavor)

Not quite sure which invocatios I'd use, but they'd be no higher than lesser.

[Ponce]

I've been trying to come up with a build incorporating the Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny. The concept is to damage opponents' saves as much as possible in order to let your buddy (a Red Wizard, you being their knight) go to town on opponents. I'm having trouble finding the right material for the job though. Aside from these two classes, I can't think of other ways to increase the penalty the character imposes. Does anyone know classes or feats that grant a penalty similar to the Dark Companion or Aura of Despair?

[Starbuck_II]

Heck, I've been thinking of reworking the hexblade to be a 1/2 caster invoker sort of like the warlock (minus eldritch blast, replace with something more in line with the class flavor)

Not quite sure which invocatios I'd use, but they'd be no higher than lesser.

You mean a progression like:
Starting at level 4, you gain the ability to cast invocations, spell-like abilities. You start with knowing 2 Least invocation. You get additional at 6th, 9th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 18th, and 20th.

And give him Max Known of 9.
Maybe 4th, 6th, 9th: Least
10th, 12th, 14th, 18th, 20th, Lesser.