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Djibriel
2008-04-14, 05:08 PM
My DM has allowed me to take the Leadership on my 6th level. I'm basically playing Kid Sherlock (at sixth level, he'll be Urban Ranger4/Master Inquisitive 2) and since every brilliant detective has a not-quite-as-gifted side-kick to further illustrate just how awesome he is at what he does, I'd like to gain a Watson.

Watson will be a Warforged who is technically younger than Kid Sherlock (the racial penalties are perfect for the lesser detective) who will obviously try to be a Master Inquisitive but he'll never make it. He will, however, be able to carry my things, have more hit points than me, look a hundred times as mean than Kid Sherlock, choke confessions out of non-cooperative low-level NPC's, ask stupid questions and draw the wrong conclusions. Watson shouldn't be very effective at anything (he is, after all, a cohort in a party of PCs), but he'll be the 'bad cop' with style.

However, I can't figure out how to build him. Due to Kid Sherlock's Urban Companion, he will be level 3 when he enters the picture. My best bet is Fighter 2/Monk 1 (Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk, 1d6), Improved Grapple (Monk), Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Adamantine Body, Skill Focus (Intimidate)), but somehow I feel there's tons more options to better capture him and I'm not too fond of his Monk level as even though it's perfect for the build is not his class by a long shot.

Any ideas? Any source is allowed, really.

Note that he won't actually be called Watson, though. Thanks in advance. :smallsmile:

RandomLunatic
2008-04-14, 05:52 PM
Well, for Bad Cop PrCs, the Menancing Brute is about as good as they come (RoD). As written, it is a Half-Orc only PrC, but it is designed for races who are both rejected and feared-Warforged certainly meet those criteria. It is also a PrC designed mostly for characters who hang out in urban areas, so it will fit nicely into your campaign, from what I can tell.

Wooter
2008-04-14, 06:12 PM
You know, Waston wasn't that dumb. He's a doctor, after all. Plus, Holmes was probably illiterate.

koldstare
2008-04-14, 06:17 PM
You know, Waston wasn't that dumb. He's a doctor, after all. Plus, Holmes was probably illiterate.

Shhh... don't let facts get in the way of roleplaying.

Chronos
2008-04-14, 06:19 PM
Plus, Holmes was probably illiterate.OK, this one you're going to have to back up. I don't really see how, say, the Case of the Dancing Men could be consistent with illiteracy.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-14, 06:21 PM
Replace skill focus with improved natural attack, and get a 1d6 natural attack, without a monk level tangling your build.


Also, adamantine body counts as heavy armor, so you can't use most of your monk powers.

Sucrose
2008-04-14, 06:23 PM
OK, this one you're going to have to back up. I don't really see how, say, the Case of the Dancing Men could be consistent with illiteracy.

Or, for that matter, the Gloria Scott case. Don't see how he could've read the message over and over looking for a pattern, if he couldn't read.

Edit: Oh, I second the whole "Watson was actually pretty bright" statement.

shadow_archmagi
2008-04-14, 06:24 PM
Watson wasn't thick. He was merely above average, which seemed incredibly thick when compared to the criminal masterminds and genius detective he always hung out with. He was also a lousy fighter if I remember.

Djibriel
2008-04-14, 06:54 PM
I know Watson was a victim of caricature, but Doyle did comment on his intelligence being slightly below that of the average reader. Also, since murder mysteries have no combat focus and d20 does, I decided to stray even further from that and make him Kid Sherlock's muscles. The Fullmetal Alchemist imagery is also sweet.

I let go of the Monk and went Thug 2/Combat Rogue 1 with Investigate (ECS), Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple. I really want the I. Grapple; it'll help getting people in manacles, and Kid Sherlock isn't going to spend two feats on it.

Also (on a loosely related note), this way Watson qualifies for Master Inquisitive (even though he'll never take levels in it). I can just imagine how he's tried so hard but can't cross that border into M.I. due to his Warforged nature.

Behold_the_Void
2008-04-14, 07:05 PM
Wasn't Watson just unable to notice the incredibly minute detail that Holmes could?

Ascension
2008-04-14, 07:14 PM
Ehh, I don't think either one of them is suited for D&D. Too much thinking, not enough killing. I'd model them both as Experts. Don't get me wrong, you can run a cerebral game in D&D, but something ends up dead in the end regardless.

Djibriel
2008-04-14, 07:47 PM
Meh, that's just d20 game mechanics. I play Kid Sherlock as exactly that, Kid Sherlock. He does, however, also have the highest BAB of the party, the stats of a 30-year old, proficiency with all martial weapons (and two exotic ones) is due to Endurance the least likely to succumb to long marches, etc.

Like any character except the most exalted and/or roleplay-intense, he is surprisingly capable and more than willing to defend himself in kill-or-be-killed combat. Also, I don't play Holmes, I play a kid detective with his own personality.

Ascension
2008-04-14, 08:01 PM
If you admit that your Sherlock and Watson have absolutely nothing to do with the literary Sherlock and Watson, why are you asking us for build advice? Build him however you want to build him if he's going to bear no resemblance to Watson anyway.

Mewtarthio
2008-04-14, 09:59 PM
He's asking advice for his thuggish sidekick named "Watson." I think.

For this sort of build, you can't go wrong with the Complete series Samurai. It's built around effective use of intimidation and tough-guy-ness. Trust me, you should take that class and never look back. You won't regret it!

Ascension
2008-04-14, 10:13 PM
For this sort of build, you can't go wrong with the Complete series Samurai. It's built around effective use of intimidation and tough-guy-ness. Trust me, you should take that class and never look back. You won't regret it!

Please don't. Please don't recommend that class to anyone. One of these days someone's going to take you seriously.

SadisticFishing
2008-04-14, 10:30 PM
Justiciar. Toss him some ranger levels or something, but Justiciar does seem a perfect goal for the character.

SadisticFishing
2008-04-14, 10:32 PM
If you admit that your Sherlock and Watson have absolutely nothing to do with the literary Sherlock and Watson, why are you asking us for build advice? Build him however you want to build him if he's going to bear no resemblance to Watson anyway.

He's not looking for a Sherlock and a Watson, he's looking for a Sherlock and Watson. He wants a sidekick, and he's using Watson as a base, not a goal.

Cybren
2008-04-15, 12:41 AM
Sherlock...watson..
Warlock and Shotson?
Make him a warlock!

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-15, 01:00 AM
Cleric or Cleric/Fighter. Seems pretty obvious. A military man and a medical doctor, he was the one who often carried a gun and usually handled physical confrontations. (Even though Holmes was the one who was a master stick-fighter.)

The Great Skenardo
2008-04-15, 01:07 AM
The Bloodhound PRC from Complete Adventurer might be a good one as well: Lots of abilities with manacles (kinky ;) ) and tracking. If you can figure out who's guilty, Watson the Bloodhound can probably find him and bring him in.

Glawackus
2008-04-15, 05:23 AM
Cleric or Cleric/Fighter. Seems pretty obvious. A military man and a medical doctor, he was the one who often carried a gun and usually handled physical confrontations. (Even though Holmes was the one who was a master stick-fighter.)

Not to mention a pretty darn good boxer, IIRC.

Djibriel
2008-04-15, 06:52 AM
Thanks for all the input. I especially liked the Samurai recommendation. If you're ever going to play that... thing, you'd better play it as a cohort and it is a menacing character loyal to its master. Too bad it's skill points and selection are really just too poor and the staredown doesn't kick in until later. Watson is incompetent, sure, but not quite Samurai-level incompetent :smalltongue:

Since the (Urban) Tracking and EWP (Manacles) has been taken care of by Kid Sherlock any extension of the tracking Ranger isn't really wat I'm looking for. I'm pretty happy with his current incarnation (got a Battlefist for him, too).

Khanderas
2008-04-15, 08:28 AM
Wasn't Watson just unable to notice the incredibly minute detail that Holmes could?
Yeah, thats my take on it as well.
"Elementary my dear Watson, the butler had mud on his shoes, not just any mud, it is mud that only exists in the Perkipsie swamp. "

Telonius
2008-04-15, 08:44 AM
Watson is lawful, average intelligence, tries to do the right thing ... I'd say either Knight or Paladin. He ought to have the "Honest" trait regardless (+1 diplomacy, -1 bluff and sense motive).

SilentNight
2008-04-15, 09:06 AM
The warforged is nice but personally I 'd go with ftr1/clr2 to later go into battlefield medic(heroes of battle). Then again, maybe knight. This is to far from the real Watson for me to give any real input.

Ahiman
2008-04-15, 10:51 AM
I agree with the Paladin or cleric/fighter.

Do it. Do it hard. Good luck

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-15, 12:52 PM
Yeah, thats my take on it as well.
"Elementary my dear Watson, the butler had mud on his shoes, not just any mud, it is mud that only exists in the Perkipsie swamp. "

The story I remember involved clay from a specific street, but yeah, Holmes had Knowledge (local) +50 or something to know crap like that, and presumably had to walk every street in London each day just to keep up to date on the clay situation.