Cheating?

[Jack Zander]

My girlfriend (1.5 years) just told me that my "friend" asked her to cheat on me with him. This is a guy who I've always known to try and steal girls from other guys. I said I wanted to let him know that I knew what he did and she got really mad. She said she took care of it and didn't want a fight to break out between us (we haven't even talked since I graduated last summer so who cares?) and that she didn't want people hating her for my friend hating her for telling me. I said that I didn't want to argue with him, I just wanted to let him know that I knew and that if we argued, he'd probably just try to tell me lies anyway. She got really upset and said that that's what she didn't want to happen. She's afraid I'll break up with her because he'll say they cheated on me before. She kept saying that she took care of it and he gets the picture. Yet, he keeps texting her asking when he'll see her again. She doesn't respond but he obviously doesn't get it yet.

Anyway, I never was skeptical about her until she got upset that I might talk to him and he might say something about the past. If she did cheat, she wouldn't have even told me about this last incident right? But it feels like she doesn't want me finding something out. Hopefully I'm just crazy. What do you guys think?

[Midnight Son]

My philosophy has always run toward trust until presented with overwhelming evidence. Love is based quite a bit on placing trust in the one you love. If you cannot trust them, then why are you with them?

Now take your situation. You know your friend is untrustworthy and has hit on girlfriends of friends before. You state that he is known to lie. Who do you trust more? What you haven't said is whether or not your girlfriend has a trustworthy past.

Finally, do you really want to know if she's cheated on you? If she has, once you know it, you cannot unknow it. You will be stuck with that knowledge. What would you then do with it?

[Jack Zander]

Now take your situation. You know your friend is untrustworthy and has hit on girlfriends of friends before. You state that he is known to lie. Who do you trust more? What you haven't said is whether or not your girlfriend has a trustworthy past.

As far as I know she's very trustworthy, but defensive at strange things. I've been telling her it makes me uncomfortable when she hangs out with this guy and she always gets mad and says I don't trust her and she'll just sit at home cooped up with no friends.


Finally, do you really want to know if she's cheated on you? If she has, once you know it, you cannot unknow it. You will be stuck with that knowledge. What would you then do with it?

Ignorance is bliss then? I do believe that is true, but I dunno if I'd prefer to be ignorant or upset.

[Cobra_Ikari]

As far as I know she's very trustworthy, but defensive at strange things. I've been telling her it makes me uncomfortable when she hangs out with this guy and she always gets mad and says I don't trust her and she'll just sit at home cooped up with no friends.



Ignorance is bliss then? I do believe that is true, but I dunno if I'd prefer to be ignorant or upset.

...well...I don't believe she's being entirely on the level here. Oh, and why is this guy still your friend?

[Admiral_Kelly]

My advice to you is to ask her politely to stop staying in contact with this guy. If she refuses, talk it out. Do not imply you think she might be cheating on you; in fact, do not think that period. Instead, explain to her it is because this guy has been a major jerk in the past and was rude to you and your girlfriend by his asking. If you cannot convince her to stop being in contact with him, you should discern whether it is worth staying committed to her.

[Zeb The Troll]

What Midnight Son said.

It's possible that she has in the past and she regrets it and doesn't want to continue with it.

It's possible that she's being totally on the up and up with you.

Right now you can believe what you want. If you want to be with her, believe that she's being straight with you until it's proven otherwise. You can always tell yourself that it's only suspicion if you never bring it up.

However, if you investigate it and learn it to be true, then no matter what happens after this you'll know and it'll always be back there nagging.

So don't investigate it any further unless you've decided that you don't want to be with her anymore. Even if it comes out okay, she'll be offended that you felt the need to investigate it further and it'll forever strain your relationship.

Also, this might do well in the Relationships - Woes and Advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4189396#post4189396) thread.

[banjo1985]

I've been in a very similar situation to you in the past, and I have to say I agree with Zeb. Being defensive can be a sign of guilt, but it's also possible that she's just genuinely upset that you think there might be more too it. Either way, don't pursue it unless you really really want to know the answers.

It's possible that you could uncover something by speaking to this guy, but with his reputation that you've stated, could you believe a word he said? It's completely likely that he would fabricate a fake fling to make you two break up so that he can take advantage. If you're serious about finding out and putting your mind at rest I'd say you need to talk to your girlfriend rather than this guy, while she'll get upset she's more likely to tell the truth than he is. If she is being straight with you, then she'll want to put your mind at rest, he will have no such compunction.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Telling your girlfriend not to talk to a guy just because you're afraid the guy may try to have sex with her is one of the fastest ways to lose your girlfriend. Because this sends her a message that 1. you believe she's your property by limiting who she can talk to and 2. that you don't trust her. So don't do it.

Does the guy actually have sex with other people's girlfriends' or just flirt with them? It wasn't very clear from your post. If it's just flirting, let it be. Lots of people do it for fun and it doesn't mean anything.

[Admiral Squish]

Basically: I know you're not going to stop worrying because of this, but you really need to trust her. I didn't trust my girlfriend, and that's why we broke up the first time. I'm lucky in that she gave me a second chance. I don't know your girlfriend, but don't ask her to stop talking to him. That's a bad idea. Cut the guy off before he talks to her. Ask/tell him to stop. Make sure he knows you know that he tried to sleep with your girl. Be very direct, keep him from formulating a defense. Ask your girlfriend to tell you if he tries it again. If he does, catch him on it. Again, ask/tell him to stop. If he tries it a third (or fourth?) time, I support violence, as long as there's no lasting damage. Though only resort to violence if you know you'll win.

[Catskin]

I have a slightly different take. I'm all for trusting your girlfriend, but don't be a martyr or play dumb. Why did she tell you that your old friend hit on her? Maybe it was completely innocent of her, but at the very least I'd want to talk to my old "friend" about what was going on. I find it very, very suspicious that she wouldn't want you to. If it's all innocent, what's the harm?

You should only trust someone to the extent that they are being honest with themselves. It sounds like she's not sure what she wants (she doesn't want to cheat on you with your friend but wants him to court her?), so she can't really be honest with you. Or, in other words, she's being honest with you by saying and doing conflicting things.

I'm not saying be selfish, but I am saying you should give as much consideration to your own feelings as your girlfriends--as hers seem pretty ambivalent. My advice is to determine what you need and then go get it, being as aware as possible of the potential outcomes.

[Brickwall]

This goes here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73231).

[Trog]

First of all this guy is obviously not your friend and not worth your time, effort, or even thought. He obviously has no respect for you. Trust your girl and drop it if you want your relationship to continue.

Taking the high road now and trusting your girl may leave you looking like a sap to others who know what is really going on (if she is, indeed, cheating) but what can you say? "Look, yeah I trusted her... apparently I made the mistake of thinking she was a trustworthy person."

Though if her behavior continues on a very suspicious bent you may need to rethink whether or not you want to trust her. If you decide you don't then break up with her and start looking for someone better.

[Jack Zander]

Thanks to everyone who gave their two cents. I texted the guy and told him it would be a good idea to stay away from her and not talk to her anymore. He just said, "I got it."

I told her how I feel and that I completely trusted her until she started getting defensive. She said she simply didn't want him spreading lies. I told her I wouldn't believe him anyway. I also told her that my trust is a little shaken because she had such a hard time letting me talk to the guy, and was acting all dodgy. I'm actually worried that she won't trust me anymore, and won't ever tell me if some guy is making her uncomfortable.

In any case, even if she did cheat on me in the past, there would be absolutely no way of me knowing for sure unless she came clean herself. So until I have evidence otherwise, I'll continue to trust her. I just hope she can trust me.

[Tom_Violence]

Oh, and why is this guy still your friend?

Seconded. Of more interest to me is why on earth people are still friends with this guy, given what is apparently commonly known about him. No offense to you, but your girlfriend should put a bit more care into who she hangs around with. If her judgement is that dodgy then I think you've got every right to be suspicious.

[Syka]

I would personally be feeling mighty paranoid. In my experience, dodging like that is a big red flag flapping in the breeze. There is a good chance that something happened at some point (not necessarily recently) that she doesn't want you finding out about. I had a guy try to distract me when I asked if he kissed another girl while we were dating by saying someone was trying to come between us and out to get him and stuff. I'd found out through Myspace, not a person. :smallsigh:

Now, there is no way though that you can find out other than just talking to them. But...if you find that this becomes a huge issue in the relationship, be prepared that it might not last.

Don, you aren't completely right. If my boyfriend ASKS me not to hang out with someone, and gives me a good reason like, "He hits on everyone and is a sleaze" I would respect that. I might hang out with the guy, but I'd only do it in a group situation (and actually, the above guy I am still willing to hang out with, I just won't unless I've got other people around because he's the type that I think would still hit on/get physical with me knowing we BOTH are in relationships and I don't want to do that). By the same token, I have ASKED my boyfriend in the past not to do something. Like drive a bunch of drunken chicks around to a local club that he knows from work. I'm just...not comfortable with him being the only guy in that situation. He knows I trust him, it's just I don't trust drunk chicks. As long as we are ASKING and not TELLING, we will both consider it and usually listen out of respect for each other and our relationship. It's not a blanket "Don't hang out with guys or girls", and if those girls had been good friends of his, it'd've been a bit different. It's just isolated situations.

The moment it turns to telling is when we'd have a problem. Like he once told me not to go to this one place (a Hookah bar, I have asthma and was going with a female friend who was visiting and really wanted to go). I told him I'd be careful, but I was going regardless. I was not happy that he tried telling me to not do it. We had a big talk later and got everything hammered out, and I know he was just worried, but I explained that he needs to ask me, not tell. It doesn't mean I'll always listen, but I'm more likely to take it into consideration. He hasn't done that since.

Cheers,
Syka

[Serpentine]

I told her how I feel and that I completely trusted her until she started getting defensive. She said she simply didn't want him spreading lies. I told her I wouldn't believe him anyway. I also told her that my trust is a little shaken because she had such a hard time letting me talk to the guy, and was acting all dodgy. I'm actually worried that she won't trust me anymore, and won't ever tell me if some guy is making her uncomfortable.This conversation is basically what my advice was going to be. Well done, and keep the lines of communication open.

I also agree with Trog. Trusting someone who turns out to have been lying the whole time only reflects badly on them, not on you.

[valadil]

It sounds like your girl wants to avoid drama. That is a legitimate and worthwhile cause.

I think you should make it clear to her that you do trust her. You trust her around her male friends. You do not trust your ex friend around her. She should appreciate the distinction.

[Gygaxphobia]

Don't feel paranoid, it's a horrible feeling and completely unhelpful. Paranoia is a fear that you can always justify and never dis-prove. Try and ignore it understand that it is something our mind does to regain control when we have uncertainties/insecurities/doubts.

Go on the situation you have: your feelings for your girlfriend and her feelings for you, the facts about this guy and the fact that your gf told you about him. Forget about evidence, focus on what resolution you want to come out of it.

Now think of it from your gf's pov. There are a thousand reasons why she might not want you to discuss it with him. She's given you some of them, there might also be some she doesn't want to tell you;
e.g. she was curious or tempted, or flirting even.
but none of them involve anything particularly bad, just she has some guilt about it.
Help her to feel better about the situation (give her reassurance and security) to make both of you happy. She will share more in time about her feelings, but don't count on any astonishing revelations!

I tell you this: if you (and your relationship) can handle situations like this and come away from it the better, maturer person then your relationship will also become maturer and better.

[White Rook]

Confront him directly about it. It's not like it doesn't concern you. Don't assume anything about her just because he's asking her, but if you find out that she is cheating on you, for God's sake drop her and be done with it. If you stay with a cheater it will only bring you more pain, I promise you that.

[Koga]

Well why are you still talking to this guy? Your friend sucks, and I know something about sucky friends, I'm a sucky friend, and even I wouldn't do that.


For one, if he was your friend he must see your woman for what she really is. A pain in the ass. All women are. Some more then others, some in different ways, does he really think this could be long-term? If not, why doesn't he just hire a hooker like normal people?


You humans and your petty problems aggarvate me. You get all...emotional... over what?!


Some guy's flirting with your woman, and though she's rejected him before, you think magically something's made it different this time. And maybe it has.


You'll find out soon enough. Women suck at hiding their feelings, they'll sooner or later either dump you, or slipup. Men slipup too, but differently. They have a compulsion to gloat. So word will get around.


And then if they are, you just break their ****. It's easier to get away with breaking car windows then faces. Just blame those damn hoodlums across the street with their baggy pants and hip-hop music. How are they going to prove otherwise?

[Telonius]

I have a slightly different take. I'm all for trusting your girlfriend, but don't be a martyr or play dumb. Why did she tell you that your old friend hit on her? Maybe it was completely innocent of her, but at the very least I'd want to talk to my old "friend" about what was going on. I find it very, very suspicious that she wouldn't want you to. If it's all innocent, what's the harm?

You should only trust someone to the extent that they are being honest with themselves. It sounds like she's not sure what she wants (she doesn't want to cheat on you with your friend but wants him to court her?), so she can't really be honest with you. Or, in other words, she's being honest with you by saying and doing conflicting things.

I'm not saying be selfish, but I am saying you should give as much consideration to your own feelings as your girlfriends--as hers seem pretty ambivalent. My advice is to determine what you need and then go get it, being as aware as possible of the potential outcomes.

Actually, I don't find it all that suspicious. If the jerkwad in question has a "reputation," he may well have told her that he'll tell you that they did something. Seeds of distrust are planted. So when you go back to her and tell her that you did talk to him, you've a) done something she told you not to do after she made it clear that she didn't want you to do it, and b) you now have some reason to distrust her. Jerkwad then goes back to the girl with the now-ruined reputation and says (much more seductively than this), if everybody believes it, you might as well make it true and have something gained from the experience. (EDIT: Alternately, "See, I told you he'd do that. He doesn't trust you. I've been slandered in the past by just this kind of thing...) This is a depressingly common occurrence (see: Pride and Prejudice), and quite possibly jerkwad's modus operandi.

My advice? Trust her until you have reason (not suspicion) not to. You had no reason to believe in any cheating before she said something, correct? Then what motive could she have had to tell you about a guy trying to get her to cheat? Unless she is seriously playing some headgames with both you and herself, none.

[Grogah]

My advice is likely to be very unpopular, but take it for what it is worth.

1) Trust is essential, but while this means you should trust someone, you should also take advantage of information when you can. If this dude tried to get your girlfriend to cheat on you, IMHO you need to call him, tell him off, and see what he says.

2) Trust is earned, why is she being defensive? Why does she want you out of contact with this guy? Why won't she tell him to lay off? She needs to answer these things to keep your trust, and you have every right to ask.

3) Recognize warning signs. There are many, many fish in the sea and you should be wary of which one you catch. Yes love is very personal, and every young person thinks their love is a special butterfly, unique and totally perfect. It isn't, and both of you might be much happier with someone else when it comes down to it. You need to keep your happiness in mind when you make decisions. This kind of behavior from her is a big red warning flag, especially the bit about her trying to cut off conversation between you and this dude. The fact she isn't outraged by his asking, to the point where she tells him off, is another big red warning flag. Keep a look out for these and as cold as it sounds, enter them into your calculus. Ten years from now you don't want to find yourself trapped in a loveless marriage with someone you no longer trust, with a bleak emotional future ahead of you.

I'm not telling you to break up with this girl, but you need to bear in mind as these and other warning signs show up, that maybe she isn't the girl you need. Maybe she is, but keep an eye to your happiness and emotional safety.

[Midnight Son]

3) Recognize warning signs. There are many, many fish in the sea and you should be wary of which one you catch. Yes love is very personal, and every young person thinks their love is a special butterfly, unique and totally perfect. It isn't, and both of you might be much happier with someone else when it comes down to it. You need to keep your happiness in mind when you make decisions.Buddy, if your going into a relationship with your happiness in mind, you're rowing a fast sinking ship with broken oars. True happiness is achieved by doing for others and any lasting relationship will be based on this. This is not to say you should do whatever your significant other wants. That's just being a pushover and leads to misery, but finding ways to do things that make them happy, and having it reciprocated is a truly loving and caring relationship.

[Pyrian]

Midnight Son, I think you're taking that completely the wrong way. Somehow you magically turned the meaning of "keep your happiness in mind" into "neglect other people" rather than "don't neglect yourself", even though you obviously agree with the basic principle of "don't neglect yourself" - which was what was actually said.

[Serpentine]

Just wanna point something out: A number of you seem to either forget/not notice that she has already given reasons why she doesn't want him to get in contact with the other guy, or assume that she's lying. People are dumb. Even clever people are dumb. They might be bad or stupid reasons, but for all you know they're ones she's genuinely concerned about. It could be nothing more than her being paranoid.

[Player_Zero]

Just wanna point something out: A number of you seem to either forget/not notice that she has already given reasons why she doesn't want him to get in contact with the other guy, or assume that she's lying. People are dumb. Even clever people are dumb. They might be bad or stupid reasons, but for all you know they're ones she's genuinely concerned about. It could be nothing more than her being paranoid.

It could be. But it could also not be. We don't have enough information to know for certain whether or not she is just being paranoid or not. It could just be her personality. Her reaction does seem rather odd to me in the way it was described.

Personally, I don't trust anyone, since this enables me to live a life with fewer risks, so I would instantly assume that she had cheated and was lying to me. But then, I'm hardly one to give advice.

[Solo]

Anyway, I never was skeptical about her until she got upset that I might talk to him and he might say something about the past. If she did cheat, she wouldn't have even told me about this last incident right? But it feels like she doesn't want me finding something out. Hopefully I'm just crazy. What do you guys think?

As he probably does not fit her taste in men, you likely do not have to worry.

But keep an eye out. Until then, do not assume too much, and have an honest, open, heart to heart with her.


As far as I know she's very trustworthy, but defensive at strange things. I've been telling her it makes me uncomfortable when she hangs out with this guy and she always gets mad and says I don't trust her and she'll just sit at home cooped up with no friends.

You trust her, you just don't trust him.

[Quincunx]

Buddy, if your going into a relationship with your happiness in mind, you're rowing a fast sinking ship with broken oars. True happiness is achieved by doing for others and any lasting relationship will be based on this. This is not to say you should do whatever your significant other wants. That's just being a pushover and leads to misery, but finding ways to do things that make them happy, and having it reciprocated is a truly loving and caring relationship.

Well, yes, but you're a renowned doormat. While your advice is generally good on dealing with others, we're trying to clear up the original poster's own feelings, and that requires being a bit biased to his side.

He seems to be handling things just fine, for what it's worth.

[Grogah]

Buddy, if your going into a relationship with your happiness in mind, you're rowing a fast sinking ship with broken oars.

No, if you go into it without your happiness in mind, you're likely to end up a used and abused doormat who is always walking on eggshells. You need to always be sure you look to your own happiness as well as your partners. Anything else is foolish, not to mention silly. If you aren't happy, your partner won't be happy either.


True happiness is achieved by doing for others and any lasting relationship will be based on this. This is not to say you should do whatever your significant other wants. That's just being a pushover and leads to misery, but finding ways to do things that make them happy, and having it reciprocated is a truly loving and caring relationship.

True happiness comes from a partnership, but the biggest mistake most people make is not valuing their own happiness, and letting themselves slide slowly into the state of being emotionally abused.

[Trog]

Well, yes, but you're a renowned doormat.
Well that was uncalled for. :smallannoyed:

@OP: It's quite possible that your girl was trying to keep you from talking to the guy because she can see it upsets you and knows that you are angry and will likely cause your so-called friend to say angry things back if you confront him. Since you are the vulnerable one here she could be trying to keep you out of harm's way.

She might also be trying to cover up for cheating but... well see my previous message on that.

[Ranna]

ah the old chaser situation

he's probably only keeping up the texting cos she's not interested and he's after the chase.

Just be really glad that you guys have a relationship where you can tell each other these things that happen!!! - Nothing worse than finding that sort of stuff out for yourself..trust me!

[Midnight Son]

Well, yes, but you're a renowned doormat. While your advice is generally good on dealing with others, we're trying to clear up the original poster's own feelings, and that requires being a bit biased to his side.

Well that was uncalled for. :smallannoyed:
...and mostly unwarranted.

I'm really not sure if I should be offended. On one hand, she just said that I let people walk all over me. On the other, she just said that, when I walk down the street, parents point me out to their kids.(that's a good thing right?)

In all seriousness, I'd like to know what she thinks warrants said slur. I will freely admit that I take great pleasure in doing things for pretty ladies. This does not a doormat make.

You will notice that I did say that making the other happy only works when reciprocated. My point is that, when going into a relationship, one should be thinking of the other person, not themselves. If the other person then shows that they are not loving or caring in return, they should rightly be dumped. If your thoughts are all about how happy the other will make you, you are being the selfish one. It's not the worst way to start a relationship, but I daresay a vast majority of divorce could be avoided if the couple in question stopped thinking about themselves and started thinking about their spouse.

[Pyrian]

What's up with this all-or-nothing thinking?


My point is that, when going into a relationship, one should be thinking of the other person...Of course.


...not themselves.That would be very bad.


If the other person then shows that they are not loving or caring in return, they should rightly be dumped.Which is why you shouldn't fail to think of yourself.


If your thoughts are all about how happy the other will make you, you are being the selfish one.And if your thoughts are ALL about how happy you can make the other person, you're being a doormat.

Balance. There has to be balance.

[Syka]

What's up with this all-or-nothing thinking?

Of course.

That would be very bad.

Which is why you shouldn't fail to think of yourself.

And if your thoughts are ALL about how happy you can make the other person, you're being a doormat.

Balance. There has to be balance.

Quoted for truth.

Relationships are give and take. It's rarely 50-50. Sometimes it's 60-40, sometimes 30-70, sometimes 80-20. But it ends up evening out as life goes on. When you notice it's consistently 70-30 or the like, that's when you need to examine it and see where the problem is.

Sorry...random relationship advice moment.

Cheers,
Syka

[Albub]

A situation that is similar to a degree came up a week or so ago. My broskis cell was missing for weeks, and on a whim my mom looked at his cell bill. There were 139 texts and a few phone calls, all of them incriminating a friend of mine. A friend of mine whom I've known for 10 years. Anyhow, mom was ready to go tear him a new one, but I had this gut feeling that something was off. I kept telling her to check other avenues, to consider other options. Turns out he was innocent, and I was right.

Give her the benefit of the doubt buddy, sometimes girls minds work in really strange ways. Hell, everyone's mind works in strange ways, be happy that she's just defensive about strange stuff, and not into sadism or has an animal fetish or something.

[EvilElitest]

Finally, do you really want to know if she's cheated on you? If she has, once you know it, you cannot unknow it. You will be stuck with that knowledge. What would you then do with it?

personally better harsh truth than blissful ignorence, but i agree that you shouldn't accuse unless presented with more evidence. But you should be wary
from
EE

[Midnight Son]

And if your thoughts are ALL about how happy you can make the other person, you're being a doormat.No. Being a doormat means you let them run roughshod over you. That is not you trying to make them happy. That is them taking from you. There is a huge difference.

Balance. There has to be balance.And again, you conveniently forget or ignore the part where I mention reciprocation, or do you need a dictionary?

[Pyrian]

No. Being a doormat means you let them run roughshod over you. That is not you trying to make them happy. That is them taking from you. There is a huge difference.It is what happens when you pay no attention to your own needs, as you advocated, and consider solely another's needs, as you advocated. That's a very extreme position.

If someone is running roughshod over you and you notice, that means you ARE considering your own needs. So, I consider your position to be inherently contradictory. I'm not convinced you even really mean it, it's like you don't understand what you're saying.


And again, you conveniently forget or ignore the part where I mention reciprocation, or do you need a dictionary?Nonsense. I am aware of your statements to that effect, and commented on the fact that they contradict your basic criticism. The problem is that you are casting other people as acting out of utter selfishness merely for considering their own needs.

You started this, with a completely unfair criticism of Grogah's post. So far I see no evidence that you actually disagree with any of the substance of Grogah's post - you're merely strawmanning from the get go.

EDIT: This isn't going to end well, is it? I always wonder, in situations like this, if there actually is something I can say that will make my point get across? Because right now, it seems like I'm typing to a brick wall.

[Midnight Son]

It does seem contradictory doesn't it? All I can say is give it a try someday. Lose yourself in service to your significant other and see what happens.

[Zarrexaij]

Lose yourself in service to your significant other and see what happens.I personally suggest it if you wish to lose your mind.

I had a four year relationship where I was mostly the giver most of the time and I got royally ****ed in the end. I was constantly buying him things, constantly doing things for him, and he decided to end it because "he was no longer attracted to me."

Sure, theres no guarantee that will happen, but if all you do is give, you are bound to be run over and flattened like a pancake.

[Quincunx]

I prostrated myself before living goddesses, as a supplicant and a student. That worked out well.

I prostrated myself before someone with great potential, as a muse and a means to achieve greatness. That was a disaster, with all the sprawling jealousies of a five-person relationship and not a cuddly moment, because one person cannot keep another person's flaws in check, working solo.

Replace "doormat" with "dishrag" for a moment and follow: If the original poster had been asking about how to wipe some blot from the life of his girlfriend, your advice might have been more useful. He stated that his girlfriend was seeking to wipe off some blot from her life and what should he do with the dirt? 'Take it onto yourself' is not, in this case, any good answer.

[AKA_Bait]

Ok, I'm a bit late coming and am probably going to take an unpopular stance, but here goes:

Zander, You are handling the situation well thus far. Making it clear to her that the dodging about it made you suspicious is important if you plan to have a sucessful long term relationship with her.

For many of us, particularlly those who have been cheated on and lied to, trust is not something that can be handwaived into being. It must be earned and there are behaviours that, be they evidence of actual guilt or not, will plant seeds of doubt and undermine the trust that might have taken months or years to really have. What those behaviours are is something each party in the relationship needs to be aware of. Usually, both sides will have their own set of things that make them concerned or suspicious. I'm of the opinion that a relationship that wants to succeed requires compormise on both sides with both parties avoiding the behaviours that bother the other as much as possible. The best relationships are frequently the ones where both parties already avoid most of the things that set off the other one.

It's important when laying those out, that it be explained that it's not an accusation. It's not even necc rational that a particular behaviours cause reactions. But it does happen and partner in a relationship in which the other person is important will accomidate the irrationalities of their signifigant other. Not putting the person you love through that kind of emotional strain should usually be more important. Solo is right that she should understand if you ask her not to interact with this guy. Just as you should understand if there is some action you are taking that raises her hackels.

Talking about it is key, but remember that there needs to be compromise on both sides and understanding of eachothers actions. Don't be a doormat. Don't be a steam roller. Make sure that the compromises that get reached are actually followed up on.

I don't know how helpful my advice on this is. I had similar issues in relationships and came to my above conclusions in part as a result of them. I'm blessed to have met, and be marrying, someone who has the same outlook. Not everyone does.

[Trog]

On the subject of doormats lord knows I've been one in the past. Making the transition from doormat to a more healthy stance has been very difficult for me. Mainly because, for a long time, I was completely unable to recognize my own needs as legitimate. Now I do and my next hurdle is finding the best way to stick up for myself. I often tend to go the extreme opposite now and I know that that is also no good. And I have had to apologize for it many times and eat crow, etc. It's a humbling journey to be sure. But one I personally feel I need to take in order to make myself happy.

Now if I could only get going with working on taking the initiative to fulfill my own needs instead of being all sedentary. :smallsigh: Baby steps, baby steps.