OOTS #549 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Hunter Noventa]

Brilliant, just brilliant.

"With one unfortunate exception."

[Catskin]

That was great.
I'd join any club MitD started.
:smallbiggrin:

[MBV]

Brilliant, just loved it, finally a strip that made me giggle.

[Mr. Goodwraith]

"Hello? Mommy?"

That would be just about the wrongest moment in this comic in months if not years. :smallsmile:

[Great Dane]

Alright, I'll normally smile a bit reading this comic, but the "Mommy?" line made me laugh out loud! O-Chul needs to somehow con MITD into giving him the entire bucket of stew, as goodly and lawfully as possible.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I have got to be more careful when reading these at work.

Tea over the keyboard... People thinking I'm weird* (or having a fit)...

That last line really got me.





* OK, I am. But that's not the point.

[MoelVermillion]

Everything in that comic was awesome particuarly that last line. My only complaint is the inevitable barrage of MiTD alignment threads that you're sure to spawn with that =P.

[banjo1985]

Very nice strip, I'm glad O'chuul's made a friend! :smallbiggrin:

The baby thing was slightly dark though...making it even better!

[RTGoodman]

Not one, but TWO laugh-out-loud moments in one strip!

Is it wrong that baby-in-a-trashcan jokes don't bother me at all? :smalltongue:

[InfiniteMiller]

Ba-dum-tsh.

Take that, Miko.

[Querzis]

Ok, that last line is made of awesome.

I'm surprised O-chul hasnt convinced MitD to free him by now though. I mean, its obvious the MitD would do anything to help him.

[senrath]

Ba-dum-tsh.

Take that, Miko.

My thoughts exactly! And yay for MitD!

[Yendor]

Zing!

And hooray! Mr. Stiffly gets to talk to the Monster.

[Deme]

I love this strip. I also love the monster in the darkness. and O'Chul. and references to eating babies (especially the note about veal). I always think babies would taste like young pork, personally.

I think my favorite lines either are "with one unfortunate exception" or "hello? mommy?"

[memnarch]

Ok, that last line is made of awesome.

I'm surprised O-chul hasnt convinced MitD to free him by now though. I mean, its obvious the MitD would do anything to help him.

But how would it help? I mean, MitD knows it has to stay in the box...


Glad O-Chul has nice company near his cage. :smallsmile:

[El_Frenchie]

God I loved that one. The baby one was priceless.

And love the Miko reference. Oh, O-chul, don't ever die on me.

[Haruspex]

Interesting scene. Wonder why they put the monster right next to O though...

Yeah, that's why boys don't let girls join their clubs. :smalltongue:

[Jonathan327]

+10 points for Mr. Stiffly.

[Snow]

I ussually don't post, but that last line needs to be congratulated. It was great.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well done.

[BlueHelmet]

yeah, nice one.

[AslanCross]

Add me to the list of people who loved that last line.

[Shale]

Ok, that last line is made of awesome.

I'm surprised O-chul hasnt convinced MitD to free him by now though. I mean, its obvious the MitD would do anything to help him.

It doesn't seem to be willing/able to go against a direct order from Xykon - at least not one that it has the imagination to execute properly. Besides, he probably thinks Mr. Stiffly is having fun.

The kid in the trash can is amazing.

[Dr. Simon]

"Hello? Mommy?"

That would be just about the wrongest moment in this comic in months if not years. :smallsmile:

Even including "Show me on the doll where she touched you" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0373.html)? :smallwink:

[PollyOliver]

That was hilarious. Thanks, Giant.

[athanis]

Nice one. the baby in the trash is so wrong that is good.:smallbiggrin:

[Doug Lampert]

"Hello? Mommy?"

That would be just about the wrongest moment in this comic in months if not years. :smallsmile:Hilarious.


Everything in that comic was awesome particuarly that last line. My only complaint is the inevitable barrage of MiTD alignment threads that you're sure to spawn with that =P.Just Rich's subtle way of reminding us that evil doesn't have to be some over the top thing where you eat live babies.

[Tari]

another fantastic comic :) Thanks

[SteveMB]

So now we know the MITD doesn't eat little kids, despite the fact that Xykon tries to feed them to him. This contradicts the strip way back when after they left Durkon's dungeon, when Xykon told him they'd stop off at the local village for a Kid's meal, heh heh.

No, it doesn't. The MitD wanted a Kid's Meal for the "toy surprise", and Xykon said it would have "real kids".

[Mordokai]

Good to finally see new comic. I was beggining to ask myself when that would happen.

Glad to see the waiting has paid of reasonably well.

[Mauve Shirt]

Heehee "With one unfortunate exception.":smallbiggrin:
<3

[Swashbuckler]

Nothing quite warms my heart to know that Miko is classified by her peers as an "unfortunate exception"! :biggrin:


... and is it just me, or do people not read the Announcement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=22&a=26) items any longer about "first-page" shout-outs?

[shylocxs]

Oh yeah... it took me a second or two to figure out the one unfortunate exception, but I'm still chuckling minutes later. I wonder how she's doing right now?

[MarvinCZ]

That was sweet!
MitD has got a friend and O-Chul has a company... Good for both of them. And I wonder what cosequences that could have. Something like Thog not wanting to hurt not-nale, perhaps?

And O-Chul is collecting scars :) Or MitD is collecting scars on O-Chul :D

[Laurentio]

I wonder how she's doing right now?
Oh, she is cool, believe me. Cool dead.

Laurentio

[Surfing HalfOrc]

More evidence to my pet theory that the MitD is a child!

[hajo]

I'm surprised O-chul hasnt convinced MitD to free him by now though.
O-Chul has not seen how powerful the MitD really is, e.g. "stomping on the ground".
So maybe he just need a hint :smallsmile:

[Crimples]

I really enjoy the monster in the darkness. He is childlike and fun. Every strip about him my curiosity rises as to what he is.

I can imagine there is a small city of children growing somewhere in around the dump.

[Grumble]

Excellent job Giant.

I always enjoy the MitD :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

And the baby in the trash can was hilarious. "Mommy??"

[Laurentio]

O-Chul has not seen how powerful the MitD really is, e.g. "stomping on the ground".
So maybe he just need a hint :smallsmile:
He was there, don't you remember? Paralyzed, but still awake and all. So he know, but maybe he is smart enough to know that just escaping the bars is not freedom. He lacks a place to go, a way to run away, and a goal.
MitD's loyalty to Xykon is troubled and discutible, but like any child, it's easy to make him rebel for a minute, and hard for a day.

Laurentio

[Ghastly Epigram]

Took me a couple of seconds to work the last panel out...hehehe. Well played O-Chul, well played.

Also, in regards to the MitD's alignment, one thing to bear in mind is that it was still referring to the babies as food. Not living, sentient beings, but food. Just yucky food. Not that that stops it being funny. :smallwink:

[Insert Name Here]

Heh. "With one unfortunate exception"

Also, there's a typo in the strip. Or the MitD was supposed to make the mistake, but I have slight doubts. In box 8, the MitD says "...Trying to fed me live children..."

[Holammer]

OMG, I actually did Laugh Out Loud when I read this strip.

Hello? Mummy?

Lets discuss TMitD's alignment again shall we? :D

[brilliantlight]

No, it doesn't. The MitD wanted a Kid's Meal for the "toy surprise", and Xykon said it would have "real kids".

Exactly, just because Xykon offered him a kid doesn't mean MitD took him up on it.

[Zone]

Awwww.

Secret Clubs <3 So, may we suppose that O-Chul ain't a "boy" anymore ;)

[Dragon48]

"With one unfortunate exception." One of the more awesome lines EVER. :smallbiggrin:

[Mugen Nightgale]

rá! Right in your face Miko!

[warmachine]

The author does realise, even though he aims at the US PG-13 rating, he'll get numerous questions from parents as their children are asking what happens to the uneaten children? An easy explanation is the Resistence raids the rubbish piles and re-unites them with their parents. As no one guards rubbish, it isn't even necessary to explain why the hobgoblins haven't set traps or ambushes.

[SoD]

This has got to be one my favorites in the past few weeks, if not months! Laughed at the scars, the baby/trash, the tsukiko can't join, and the one exception. Brilliant, but you've made a tough act to follow with 550...

[Ghastly Epigram]

The author does realise, even though he aims at the US PG-13 rating, he'll get numerous questions from parents as their children are asking what happens to the uneaten children? An easy explanation is the Resistence raids the rubbish piles and re-unites them with their parents. As no one guards rubbish, it isn't even necessary to explain why the hobgoblins haven't set traps or ambushes.

I see no reason to believe anything of the sort. :smallconfused:

[Castamir]

Dammit. Lines like the last one are why reading OOTS at work is bad...

[FujinAkari]

This comic was absolutely a classic, very well done Rich!

Although I am a bit worried by the last line... not because of the line itself (the line is hilarious) but the implications of Rich referring to Miko.

Typically speaking, dead characters exit the story (see Samantha, the Chief of Cliffport PD, and Trigak) never to be heard from again... Miko's stubborn refusal to drop out of the ongoing plotline boads ill for her actually staying dead.

[Castamir]

Dammit. Lines like the last one are why reading OOTS at work is bad...

[shakes019]

Tsukiko eats babies, y'all.

[Gensuru]

Any parent would be likely to recognize that the child in the thrashcan was obviously advanced enough to speak and therefor unlikely to simply STAY in the trashcan (unless natural selection needs to get rid of some REALLY stupid child). At least i hope they would because otherwise i´d have to decrease my expectations again. Also even tied up a child is hardly stupid enough not to get free or call for help long enough to be noticed.

Anyways i liked that joke a lot even though not only for the panel with the trashcan but also for the mere mental image of the monstr scraping an entire child from his plate (and seemingly without Xykon even noticing it).

[xyzchyx]

The author does realise, even though he aims at the US PG-13 rating, he'll get numerous questions from parents as their children are asking what happens to the uneaten children? An easy explanation is the Resistence raids the rubbish piles and re-unites them with their parents. As no one guards rubbish, it isn't even necessary to explain why the hobgoblins haven't set traps or ambushes.An easier explanation is that this is just a comic and that was just a throw-away gag (sort of like the flashback scenes they use in family guy), and that there's really no reason to be taking it so seriously that one would ask questions like that.

[Pandabear]

Tons of laughs!

And I'm trying to justify the panel with 'fed' in it, but I can't help but feel it's a typo..

[Wych]

My favourite line has to be:

"I was going to express a dislike of squid, but I guess babies top my list as well."

[SteveMB]

Exactly, just because Xykon offered him a kid doesn't mean MitD took him up on it.

Yeah, presumably the MitD ditched the kid once Xykon wasn't looking, just like he does now.

[Belkar Rocks]

:smalleek:

Every time I think Rich has made Xykon as evil as he could possibly get, he raises the bar. "Hello? Mommy?" gave me freaking goosebumps.

[HOLEkevin]

:smalleek:

Every time I think Rich has made Xykon as evil as he could possibly get, he raises the bar. "Hello? Mommy?" gave me freaking goosebumps.

Oh that was hysterical!

[silvadel]

Actually if I wanted the MiTD to let me out -- I would say something more like -- lets have a club meeting in my cage. Mitd would probably destroy both cages making that happen -- especially since it means someone would get to see it.

[AutomatedTeller]

Is the MitD actually powerful? He's not ever done anything, has he? Xykon keeps saying how powerful he is, but I think all he's done is lurk in the dark.

[Shale]

He "fought" Miko and Belkar, remember? Neither one could deal a single point of damage to him despite getting free shots, and he knocked Miko (and her horse!) clear through a tower wall while trying to hit them as lightly as he possibly could.

[Aquillion]

Just Rich's subtle way of reminding us that evil doesn't have to be some over the top thing where you eat live babies.Well, there's another factor: In D&D there's a (STUPID) rule that says that paladins can fall simply for "associating" with an evil creature. While this term is not defined anywhere, it does seem likely that O-Chul could risk falling for friendly banter and lunch exchanges with the MitD if it was evil. (And, remember, O-Chul can theoretically sense that -- although, he's probably not as trigger-happy as Miko with it.)

Assuming that that rule is in effect, the fact that O-Chul is willing to banter so casually with the MitD implies that it's non-evil. Which doesn't mean it's good, of course; a creature with childlike innocence could still do horrible things without realizing it.

But it's not exactly controversal to say that it's non-evil, either. We haven't seen anything indicating that it wants to kill or hurt people, just that it's willing to when its good friends request it... that's closer to neutral than evil anyway.

[Max_Sinister]

Yeah! At least O-Chul has a helper!

If he could just persuade MitD to give him some more help... I don't know, but couldn't it break out of its box?

[PaladinFreak]

Heh...

"Hello?... Mommy?"

That is so wrong.

[Shale]

MitD strikes me as a pretty clear-cut Lawful Neutral. He follows orders (even when it means devouring his new "friends"), keeps his word even when it doesn't benefit him (trading his Monopoly partners for stew when he could have just taken the stew), and seems to prize having fun over any kind of larger goal. He even cares about making other people happy, apparently, which would be very, very strange for Evil. Most of his evil behavior seems to stem from his unquestioned mastery of the Greater Naivete feat.

It occurs to me that he's like Team Evil's version of Belkar, really.

[Kgw]

As we know, the MiTD is an uncontrollable, childish, almost almighty being. I think O-Chul is smart enough to know he cannot depend on him to regain fredom or fight any of the evil sides he's facing (Redcloak, Xykon...), because he can start a secret club for a while, and then destroying the castle because nobody is paying any attention to him.
For that sole reason it amazes me that Redcloak let him share the same jail...or whatever. One thing is believing that the MiTD can not help you and the other, letting a dangerous enemy can talk it into something, maybe in the worst moment.

On a side note: the Wikipedia entry of Redcloak is updated strip-by-strip :eek:

[truemane]

"With one unfortunate exception."

I think that's my favourite panel in all of OOTS so far. Sad, edgy, bitter, and hilariously funny all at the same time.

Erudition, thy name is Giant.

[Fighteer]

MitD strikes me as a pretty clear-cut Lawful Neutral. He follows orders (even when it means devouring his new "friends"), keeps his word even when it doesn't benefit him (trading his Monopoly partners for stew when he could have just taken the stew), and seems to prize having fun over any kind of larger goal. He even cares about making other people happy, apparently, which would be very, very strange for Evil. Most of his evil behavior seems to stem from his unquestioned mastery of the Greater Naivete feat.

It occurs to me that he's like Team Evil's version of Belkar, really.
I'm going to go with just plain Neutral here. I don't see how you could possibly call him Lawful, since most of the time he has the attention span of a gnat on amphetamines. Lawful implies organized patterns of behavior and deliberate adherence to rules. The MitD obeys Xykon not because he's got some kind of wierd code of honor, but because he's too childlike to grasp the alternatives.

And the trash can bit was absolutely hilarious. I can just imagine Rich thinking up the panel... I hope he enjoyed writing it as much as I enjoyed reading it.

[hamishspence]

its not entirely clear whether "awesome call" referring to it talking to redcloak about not sacrificing minions was sarky or genuine. I'm going with genuine, since it looked annoyed when Redcloak changed his mind.

it a lot like Thog, without the rampages and different likes and dislikes. A little more erudite, but you do get same feel of childishness.

[Tundar]

"Hello? Mommy?"

That would be just about the wrongest moment in this comic in months if not years. :smallsmile:

Indeed!


I'd join that no-girls and babies club too. Sounds like loads of fun and interesting moments.

[Deuce]

The author does realise, even though he aims at the US PG-13 rating, he'll get numerous questions from parents as their children are asking what happens to the uneaten children? An easy explanation is the Resistence raids the rubbish piles and re-unites them with their parents. As no one guards rubbish, it isn't even necessary to explain why the hobgoblins haven't set traps or ambushes.

Actually, I prefer to think that there are not that many children left in Azure City, maybe 2 or 3 that pass as "babies" (thought the talking pushes that to "toddler"). I imagine a cycle like this - Today's "trashy baby" climbs out of the trash and starts to make a get-away, but is caught at the edge of town by the Hobbo's. They take the little one to Xykon (orders you know) who "fees" them to MitD, who lets them go, only to be captured again.

Of course, this being D&D, the tots are earning plot EXP for each escape from such deadly, high-CR foes, and should be leveling on an regular basis. Soon the Hobbo's in Azure City will start getting picked off in ones and twos by a band of mid-level, erm, ah, Bratbarians? Wiz-Kids? Munchkins?

[motub]

MitD strikes me as a pretty clear-cut Lawful Neutral. He follows orders (even when it means devouring his new "friends"), keeps his word even when it doesn't benefit him (trading his Monopoly partners for stew when he could have just taken the stew), and seems to prize having fun over any kind of larger goal. He even cares about making other people happy, apparently, which would be very, very strange for Evil. Most of his evil behavior seems to stem from his unquestioned mastery of the Greater Naivete
Thanks for this-- I was reading this strip trying to overcome my preconceptions of Evil to make the MitD fit (Evil can perfectly well like pretty things like Hello Chthulu :smallsmile: and entertain itself with tea parties; sure, you can be Evil and not eat babies)-- but I really was stumped when trying to reconcile Evil with "tells little white lies (about eating the babies) to spare Xykon's feelings". I really couldn't figure how the MitD, even if a child (which I think we have to concede at this point), could be "Evil" and also so honestly nice (and I think we also have to concede that he is a "nice kid". He and Elan would get along great).

But yeah, OK, Neutral. Lawful or not doesn't count (although it's kind of default Lawful, because it's a child, who is always subject to Law of the Elders, and certainly it isn't Chaotic), because it's a child, and children are not competent under the law (or the Law). Neutral can be nice.

But how can it be Neutral, or how can a Neutral being be associated with Team Evil?

Well, maybe the answers are in SoD, which I haven't read (yes, I know :smallfrown: ), but I was thinking about Monsters In the Dark, and I realized that for the most part they are Neutral (or at least not Evil).

If you think about the Monster in the Dark/Closet/Under the Bed that most of us have been afraid of at some point in our lives, and we assume that there really was a monster there (and our parents were wrong when they said there wasn't), well-- they never hurt you. You probably never even saw them except for a glimpse occasionally....the whole "thing" about a MitD/MutB/MitC is that 1) you don't see them (but you "know" they're there) and 2) they don't actually do anything to you except paralyze you with fear that they might do something to you if you ever did see them.

Now, of course, there are the rare Evil MitD/MutB/MitC individuals who ruin it for the rest-- you know, the ones that got inhabited by an evil spirit of some sort (angry Native Americans whose burial ground was disturbed, insane executed killers, etcetera), but that's Imposed Evil, not necessarily Evil native to the MitD/MutB/MitC itself. But it does work for the "normal" type, in that at least you "know" that sometimes, very rarely, the MitD/MutB/MitC will "come and get you"... which is why you're scared of all of them, rather than not scared of them at all.

But here's the thing-- if the MitD is 1) Neutral and 2) a child, isn't it possible/likely that Xykon is trying to train/mold it to Evil (since it doesn't know any better)? "Maybe if I keep shoving babies at it to eat, it'll learn to like them" kinda dealie? And in the meantime, it's doing OK at performing actions that serve Team Evil's goals, if not precisely Evil actions in and of themselves.....

I think my favorite reveal in this strip was O-Chul has been having a big dipper of hearty beef stew a night (that really made me happy, both for him and for the reveal of how he's been able to survive, as well as the reveal of the MitD's niceness). The Miko joke was also good (once the penny dropped), both because it was a good joke, and because it gave some continuity to things (gone, but not forgotten is always nice).

And I just love the MitD. It's so damn sweet (for a childlike being of incredible strength that works for Team Evil). I hope it gets.... I don't know. Something appropriate that would make it happy.

[Shale]

The MitD obeys Xykon not because he's got some kind of wierd code of honor, but because he's too childlike to grasp the alternatives.

If he can't conceive of doing anything but following orders and rules, how is that not Lawful? Adherence to a set of rules for their own sake ain't exactly Chaos. Has he done anything Chaotic other than being scatterbrained?

But even discounting his following Xykon's orders, he's been shown to follow rules of fair play even when nobody's told him to. He defaults to "taking turns" in his fight/game with Miko, he trades for what he wants, and is willing to give up other things he wants in the process, rather than giving or taking without compensation (both on the Chaotic side of things). That sees like a Lawful outlook on life, even if it is born of inexperience.

[Qov]

Ah wow. Isn't it silly how some pictures of imaginary people can make us so happy?

I think they put the MitD there as an intimidation tactic. Or perhaps Redcloak knows perfectly well that they will talk, and that the sweet innocence of the MitD will get O-Chul's guard down and he will reveal secrets he would never tell Redcloak.

I love the way Rich manages to catch laughs on three different bounces of the eating babies joke. First "except babies," is funny, and flows naturally to what kids always do when given things they don't like: chase it around the plate and throw it out when mom's not looking. And then Rich has the brilliance to follow that to the curb.

O-Chul continues to win, by being polite and fair and honest. Whether the MitD is evil or not, Rich has just shredded any chance of "association with evil" being enough to fell a paladin. O-Chul has no choice about his physical location, and how could anyone argue that meeting friendly overtures with a stoic silence or condemnation would be more virtuous than being friendly in return?

[Edhelras]

I'd go for neutral as well, for MitD's alignment.

Though... he does say "But mostly, I just push them around my plate for a while..." This "mostly", doesn't it imply that MitD sometimes ends up eating the babies?

Now, given the speculation that he might be a child himself, and a Lawful one:
Eating up one's dinner (which happens to be live babies today) - is that an obedient child following its Lawful alignment? Or is it an Evil action, because the dinner was composed of babies?

[Remirach]

I think they put the MitD there as an intimidation tactic.
I doubt it when they know perfectly well that he's "about as scary as musty Styrofoam."


Or perhaps Redcloak knows perfectly well that they will talk, and that the sweet innocence of the MitD will get O-Chul's guard down and he will reveal secrets he would never tell Redcloak.
That I could see as a possible scenario, although I still think it's a risk because the benefit of learning whatever O-Chul might tell tMitD is offset by the chance that tMitD might tell O-Chul something important from THEIR side. On the other hand, if they don't think O-Chul's gonna get out alive to tell anyone who matters, who cares if the Monster blabs their secrets, right?


O-Chul continues to win, by being polite and fair and honest. Whether the MitD is evil or not, Rich has just shredded any chance of "association with evil" being enough to fell a paladin. O-Chul has no choice about his physical location, and how could anyone argue that meeting friendly overtures with a stoic silence or condemnation would be more virtuous than being friendly in return?
Didn't that ship sail with Thanh and Belkar? We know for a FACT that Belkar's evil, as did Thanh, and he DID have a choice. Yet he didn't fall either. Perhaps "association" means "being on the same side," and as Redcloak notes, the notion of "sides" is complicated. Belkar could be a side to himself.

Although it might mean O-Chul's in trouble if he does agree to join tMitD's secret "No-Baby-Eating" club... :smalleek:

Back to the strip, I must say I really liked this. I imagine tMitD's simple (in both sense of the word) kindness must be one of the few points of relief in O-Chul's horrible daily existence. Whatever's written on its sheet for alignment, "good-hearted" is definitely a term you could apply to it. It's nice that O-Chul gets to eat some halfway decent food, too.

O-Chul's horrified "Tsukiko eats babies?!?" cracked me up. I think because for a split second I wondered if tMitD was serious too. And yes, the cut to the alleyway and "hello? Mommy?" was hilarious.

[Behold_the_Void]

That was disturbingly adorable.

[David Argall]

In D&D there's a (STUPID) rule that says that paladins can fall simply for "associating" with an evil creature.
Incorrect, at least in detail. Depending on your DM, this is far more or less strict than that. The rules provide no particular penalty for violation [Falling is the penalty for an evil deed or major violations of the code of conduct], but also provide no option. So the DM would be within reason to simply rule your paladin doesn't associate, and your opinion on the subject has no more standing than your opinion on whether a barbarian can cast spells.


While this term is not defined anywhere, it does seem likely that O-Chul could risk falling for friendly banter and lunch exchanges with the MitD if it was evil.
Risk? Well, yes, but the risk is fairly easy to classify as quite low. The term associate is rather obviously a grey area and there have to be some uses of the word that are acceptable paladin behavior and others that are not. Taken to its extreme, O'Chul is in violation for simply answering Redcloak's questions.
So we have to judge the association by other standards. An obvious one is the freedom of the association. O'Chul has no control over who is in the next cell and is clearly pretty safe on this count.
Then we have the degree of interaction. Here, there would be a some worry because the association is more than words and has moved to a mutual deal.
That moves us to the purposes and success of the association. The idea that a paladin will refuse to hold the ladder so a CE rogue can climb up and rescue a woman from a burning building is rather absurd. [He may well want to search his "associate" afterwards to make sure he didn't grab any valuables in the process, and he could be in serious trouble if he "forgets", not to mention if he takes a cut.] So we have a large variety of situations of varying allowability.


Assuming that that rule is in effect, the fact that O-Chul is willing to banter so casually with the MitD implies that it's non-evil.
It's a reasonable assumption, but not a case set in stone. Under the circumstances, he can have adequate reason for the limited association involved. [An attempt to reform might be adequate motivation.]

[Rockphed]

Rich, that title was horrible. Truely horrible.

Then you had :mitd: trade beef stew for gruel, and made it worse! You sir, win the internet for destroying us with that. *Bows to the Giant*

[MeTheGameGuy]

Nice to see Mr. Stiffly ("And I have told you many times, my real name is O-Chul,", "Oh, right. I'll try to remember that, Mr. Stiffly") has a prison buddy.

"And Tsukiko can't join!" "Tsukiko eats babies!?", "No, silly, she's a girl. Girls can't join!". Hilarious.

[Superglucose]

Lawful implies organized patterns of behavior and deliberate adherence to rules.

The only problem I have with this sentence is that it implies it requires more intelligence to be lawful. Lawful to me implies preferring organized patterns of behavior, which we have no evidence of either way for MitD. There are a lot of strong indicators he is not evil, however.

Whatever his alignment is, he's kickass.

As for O'Chul... "If your enemy is hungry give him food, if your enemy is thirsty give him water to drink. In doing this you will heap burning coals on his head." I'm not sure I'm allowed to source that... as per forum rules...

But!

O'Chul has a classic example of this. He has two options, he could either be in this prison and be an *******, or he can be kind to MitD, lead by example, and show some dignity for his fellow captive (wouldn't this be, oh, good?) O'Chul is a very good person, and is also quite lawful, but it is apparent to me that his ideals for 'good' surpass those of his lawfulness.

The opposite, I might add, of certain girls who proved that the "no girls allowed" rule might in fact be a good thing >.>

[Superglucose]

Lawful implies organized patterns of behavior and deliberate adherence to rules.

The only problem I have with this sentence is that it implies it requires more intelligence to be lawful. Lawful to me implies preferring organized patterns of behavior, which we have no evidence of either way for MitD. There are a lot of strong indicators he is not evil, however.

Whatever his alignment is, he's kickass.

As for O'Chul... "If your enemy is hungry give him food, if your enemy is thirsty give him water to drink. In doing this you will heap burning coals on his head." I'm not sure I'm allowed to source that... as per forum rules...

But!

O'Chul has a classic example of this. He has two options, he could either be in this prison and be an *******, or he can be kind to MitD, lead by example, and show some dignity for his fellow captive (wouldn't this be, oh, good?) O'Chul is a very good person, and is also quite lawful, but it is apparent to me that his ideals for 'good' surpass those of his lawfulness.

The opposite, I might add, of certain girls who proved that the "no girls allowed" rule might in fact be a good thing >.>

[mikeejimbo]

Heheh, character development for the MiTD? Well, more like character exposition. Aw, cute thing.

[kreszantas]

Well speaking the degrading term about someone else is actually not good, just got away with it since MiTD is such a 3 year old...

However the Miko slam FTW by O'Chul lead to this... Is he now being influenced by Team Evil?

[malakim2099]

Well speaking the degrading term about someone else is actually not good, just got away with it since MiTD is such a 3 year old...

However the Miko slam FTW by O'Chul lead to this... Is he now being influenced by Team Evil?

Yeah, it's not as though O-Chul would have bad feelings about a member of his order that decided to not only cleave the rightful ruler of the city in two, but cleave the very reason for the order's existence, as well.

Being LG doesn't mean you can't express your frustration and regret at that. Hardly an influence by Team Evil.

[Hydro]

I don't post in these threads often (like I always say when I post in them) but this comic warrents props.

Don't ask me why- maybe it's just the novelty of the paladin captian chatting so pleasantly with the Monster in the Darkness- but I enjoyed it.

[rgoodfellow]

Giant,

you have given me a much need laugh tonight.

Thank you.

[Runar]

That last line made me laugh.

Thanks Giant.

[otakuryoga]

quite well. with one unfortunate exception.

------------->>:miko: <<-------------

THAT WAS BEE-YOO-TEE-FUL

[HUMVEE Driver]

O-Chul slams Miko. Gotta love it.

[Estelindis]

This comic was really nice. There's a certain bitter-sweetness in the camaraderie between O-Chul and the MitD: it's pure fun in itself, but, in a wider context, it's a shaft of sunlight shining into the difficulty and pain of O-Chul's captivity. In the courtesy and politeness of O-Chul towards the MitD, we see that civilisation is something you bring with you. And, in the cute comments of the MitD, we see an innocent and child-like nature shining through.

Actually, one of my favourite lines was O-Chul's bland response to the MitD's condolences on not getting any new scars. The delivery was totally deadpan. And it really reminded me of the glee that little boys (and tomboys) get in showing each other their scabbed knees and elbows. :smallsmile:

The final panel made me sad, mostly, rather than amused. The way O-Chul referred to the Sapphire Guard like a secret club was just sad - especially because the way he said he had "once" belonged to it showed that he fully realised and accepted that their mandate of guarding the Azure City gate had ended with Miko's destruction of it. It was like he was closing a chapter on his life. Yet, in a sense, the chapter of being a paladin and an Azurite was still open - he seems to remain very faithful to those values. The last line about Miko was also sad for me, at first. After a few reads, I learned to smile at it. But it initially came across to me as wistful rather than smart-arsed.

This strip really is pulling me in a couple of different ways. It's sweet, sad, funny, and shocking. Kudos to the Giant.

[Taren]

You know, for some reason I can't help but feel that the MiTD is one of those aborted god-fetus monsters from the Epic level handbook after reading this strip. I mean, think about it: He's ALWAYS acted like a child of some sort. He's afraid of the dark (Or at least, he was in the earlier strips), he threw a tantrum when he didn't get the toys he wanted, he throws tea parties and plays board games with stuffed animals, and paralyzed paladins. Heck, even the situations he's been stuck in have made him seem kiddish: The umbrella he was stuck under seemed pretty childish, didn't it?

And yet, he's NOT a child of some sort. He's clearly of an adult level of intelligence, but his perspective is that of a kid.

He's weirded out by eating children and veal. I'd be hard pressed to think of something weirder to eat than my own kind. (See: Soylent Green, "To Serve Man", and several other works of fiction) It'd make sense, especially since he'll eat anything else put in front of him without any debilitating effects. If I'm right, he's weirded out by eating children because he IS a child, of sorts...ish.

Of course, I don't actually OWN the epic level book, and I haven't seen the stats for that creature, so I'm fairly sure that there's someone on the forum who could find something obvious to prove me wrong. But that's my two cents, anyway.

Also: O-Chul's got a pretty sweet deal, for a prisoner who gets tortured daily. You could do a lot worse than living off a spoonful of stew a day in that situation.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Y'know, that made a heck of a lot of sense, Taren.

[Blaznak]

I'd be interested in the Gruel recipe. Well, that and the Beef Stew recipe... :smallsmile:

[Serenity]

O-Chul grows more and more awesome every day. These strips should be required reading for any player who wants to run a Paladin. And the MitD is as adorable as ever!

[ref]

Yeah, giant, keep difamating Miko... :smallmad:

[fractal]

You know, for some reason I can't help but feel that the MiTD is one of those aborted god-fetus monsters from the Epic level handbook after reading this strip. I mean, think about it: He's ALWAYS acted like a child of some sort. He's afraid of the dark (Or at least, he was in the earlier strips), he threw a tantrum when he didn't get the toys he wanted, he throws tea parties and plays board games with stuffed animals, and paralyzed paladins. Heck, even the situations he's been stuck in have made him seem kiddish: The umbrella he was stuck under seemed pretty childish, didn't it?

Of course, I don't actually OWN the epic level book, and I haven't seen the stats for that creature, so I'm fairly sure that there's someone on the forum who could find something obvious to prove me wrong. But that's my two cents, anyway.
How about, everyone within a 10' radius (or more?) of him without Death Ward would receive 10 negative levels so long as they remained there. Goblins and demon roaches would drop like flies, and Redcloak, Tsukiko, and O-Chul would be really hurting whenever they approach him. Haley and Belkar would have noticed, too. Doesn't seem to be happening.

[Trizap]

waaaaaaaaaiiiiit a minute.......if the MitD doesn't like eating babies......then when it tastes adults, it won't like eating them either! do you see what rich did?
he forshadowed that no humanoid will be eaten by the MitD :smallcool:

[Jayngfet]

nice, first time I ever found myself laughing out loud here.

[Lumenadducere]

Heh, I cracked up at the "with one unfortunate exception" bit. Great stuff, Giant. It's good to see that O-Chul is getting something other than gruel, as well.

[[email protected]]

I've been a lurker for a long time (strip 35, IIRC), and this is the first strip that made me just HAVE to register. O-chul's interactions with the MiTD were very well done, and my reactions to the strip as a whole went through an entire gamut of emotions--anticipation and groans from the title (though I'd have gone with "Gruel, and Unusual Pun-ishment" :smallwink: ) to laughing out loud with the banter, to a wonderfully sad reflection on O-chul's speaking of his own secret club. This was a home run, Rich--thanks so much!

Dan

[Mazar]

O-chul probably knows if the MitD is evil or not. With days of being chained up next to him, the chance that he never once did a Detect Evil on him seems pretty low.

[flamingoptimus]

O-Chul is so CUTE with his response ...
and MitD is just being that cute Child that he is ...

was the woman in the secert club whom i think is whom i think is?

yes yes, Lien turned out one quite well ... that one exception ... siggh

[Taren]

How about, everyone within a 10' radius (or more?) of him without Death Ward would receive 10 negative levels so long as they remained there. Goblins and demon roaches would drop like flies, and Redcloak, Tsukiko, and O-Chul would be really hurting whenever they approach him. Haley and Belkar would have noticed, too. Doesn't seem to be happening.

Well, at least I was right about inevitably being proven wrong!

Still, it all seemed to make sense otherwise. Maybe there's some other sort of super powerful kiddie monster somewhere in existence? I wish I knew more about the monsters of DnD...

[Aser]

I haven't posted in a long while, but this strip was simply brilliant. I've loved every comic, and we have all the books, but something about this episode made me want to throw confetti. Maybe it was how comfortable they seemed sharing dinner...

Great job, Rich.

Aser
www.pikerpress.com

[Haydenhawk]

Hello? Mommy?

HAHA! I almost fell out of my seat laughing at that one!

Keep up the good work Rich!:smallbiggrin:

[Yahzi]

"Hello? Mommy?"

That would be just about the wrongest moment in this comic in months if not years. :smallsmile:
Ya... its little touches like that that keep this in the category of Adult Swim. :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

Until and unless the child in the trash is shown on-screen, I'm going to assume it's 8-Bit Theater's Onion Kid. Or just a dimensional twin thereof, whichever.

[humanpylon]

waaaaaaaaaiiiiit a minute.......if the MitD doesn't like eating babies......then when it tastes adults, it won't like eating them either! do you see what rich did?
he forshadowed that no humanoid will be eaten by the MitD :smallcool:

Unless babies have a specific taste (innocence flavor?) that the Mitd doesn't like. Maybe that's the extract they use to make baby oil :smallbiggrin:

[Niesra]

just great! i laughed at 9/12 panels actually. Though i laughed out loud with "mommy" (it was simply too much...on a sidenote: i think the resistance probably picks them up, and they ought to be 1-3 years old if they're still babies) and with "with one unfortunate exception". Those 2 were priceless really :P.

[Morchaint]

Loved it. was very very funny. liked the squid remark. one never stops to think about the things everyone takes for granted, until someone with a childlike nature, and wonderment of life, comments on it. well done Giant!

[Tangent128]

This one made me register, too.

Something I wonder...
1. O'Chul is caged next to the MitD.
2. The MitD's food is next to its box, out of the darkness.
3. To eat, the MitD needs to get the food into its box.
4. Logical conclusion?

[kabbor]

4. Logical conclusion?

... Are dangerous. Avoid them whenever you can. Around here at least.

Illogical conclusions - Well, they are all fine and dandy. Let's see. That proves that the MITD has teleport, so it can zap the food inside its box. That further means that it can teleport O'chul out of his cage. He's a nice, ubber-powerful whadeva, so he'll do it, no problems, and that is how O'chul escapes!! It's certain!!

[Nathander]

Fantastic, fantastic strip. There were several great lines and just a bevy of feelings throughout the entire thing.

This is going to sound bizarre, but I can't get the image of the MiTD becoming O-chul's mount out of my head now. Because O-chul is just THAT badass.

[Lizard Lord]

The thing in this comic that really makes me wonder about MITD's alignment is that Ochul the paladin is having a coherent conversation with it. Ochul is not acting like he considers Mitd evil. odd maybe but not evil.

Granted he may see no reason to use detect evil.

[Shatteredtower]

Although I am a bit worried by the last line... not because of the line itself (the line is hilarious) but the implications of Rich referring to Miko.It's become obvious that she'll keep coming up in forum discussion whether he mentions her or not.


Typically speaking, dead characters exit the story (see Samantha, the Chief of Cliffport PD, and Trigak) never to be heard from again... Miko's stubborn refusal to drop out of the ongoing plotline boads ill for her actually staying dead.Well, to be fair, her last moments would also be rather significant ones in O-Chul's life, as he wouldn't be in this predicament if she hadn't shown up at the last minute -- or if she hadn't cut Shojo down.

(Or if Roy had either shown more restraint or not retained the service of a certain halfling way back when. Still, of the two, the only one O-Chul might have an issue with is the second case -- and that would be with Belkar, not Roy.)

I'd like to think O-Chul was talking about that final incident as the one unfortunate exception, but if that was the case, he'd have mentioned two unfortunate exceptions, not one: Shojo's murder and the destruction of the gate. Then again... he might not consider her actions at the gate to have been an unfortunate exception, depending on how much he heard (he was facing the wrong way to see anything) before that explosion knocked him clear of the room.

After she killed Shojo, O-Chul mentioned that Miko had formerly been the best of them. It's possible -- and highly plausible -- that he's changed his mind since then. Considering what he's endured, I'm certainly not going to blame him if such is the case. Instead, I'm going to applaud him for the good grace he's displayed thus far. Whatever his current feelings concerning Miko, he's at least shown her the courtesy of not mentioning any names while expressing his views.


Yeah, giant, keep difamating Miko... :smallmad:

Assuming you're not kidding, it should be noted that the opinions of any character are not necessarily those of the author. If O-Chul has a negative view of the person who murdered his former master and injured his successor, as well as, for all intents and purposes, unnecessarily detonating a bomb right next to him, leading eventually to his current predicament, who could blame him?

As for the Giant, he's long been upfront about having Miko portray what he sees as the worst way to play a paladin. (Considering what we saw them do near the beginning of Start of Darkness, I'm not sure I can fully agree, but I'm also not sure what his reasoning was for deeming the Sapphire Guard's excesses in Redcloak's origin story acceptable. Maybe it's a commentary on the Oath of Obedience exalted feat.) I find it telling that O-Chul never saw it that way until after she fell, clearly defining a line between his opinions and the Giant's. Other paladins apparently didn't like her, but that needn't reflect on her ability as a paladin either -- as a person, probably, but that's another matter. If they'd had issues with her as a paladin, one would have expected more indication of efforts to rein her in, maybe even to avoid inflicting her on the population at large.

Whatever her qualities and liabilities as a paladin or potential PC, however, she was still an interesting character. A useful one too, if you find value in the contrast between her and Hinjo, O-Chul, Soon, and a number of other paladins -- or the contrast between her portrayal of lawful good and Roy's.

In any case, it's not defamation of character to point out that Miko moments made her a two-time winner for the Sapphire Guard's "Not Our Finest Hour" trophy. :smallwink:

[the_tick_rules]

Rich I may suggest retaining those comic lawyers. Someone is going to sue you over the baby in the trash.

[Bitzeralisis]

I smell a flashback!

Isn't it nice that the Monster in the Dark is nice? It just sucks that he's too stupid to not do what Xykon says. :smallconfused:

[Pvednes]

Small mercies, hey?

[The_Kobold_Hero]

I must be the only person on earth you thought this comic was rather... endearing. No other way to describe it for me, just... Cute. :smallredface:

[David Argall]

This one made me register, too.

Something I wonder...
1. O'Chul is caged next to the MitD.
2. The MitD's food is next to its box, out of the darkness.
3. To eat, the MitD needs to get the food into its box.
4. Logical conclusion?
The MitD is pictured many times holding things, tho its arms are never drawn. It would seem it has arms that will reach the floor from the window.
SoD tho not much more as the MitD is shown having to struggle to get hold of a bucket of stew when his box is a few feet off the ground.

[Laurentio]

I'd be interested in the Gruel recipe. Well, that and the Beef Stew recipe... :smallsmile:
Some type of cereal boiled in water or milk. O-Chul is a prisoner, so probably just flour and water.

About Beef Stew... considering MitD taste, and Hob's culinary skill, the recipe is:
- take a cow
- boil it until it stop moving
- chop.

Laurentio

[Entertainer13]

That is quite possibly one of the best comics ever.

[Fish]

Oh no, O-Chul got on a bus that was being driven by an Evil person, so he falls.

Oh no, O-Chul bought some pork tenderloin from a butcher shop that was founded by an Evil person, so he falls.

Oh no, O-Chul's boots were repaired by an Evil cobbler, so he falls.

Oh no, O-Chul's church had some Evil construction workers laying bricks and mortar, so he falls.

And so on. In my own personal interpretation, the "cannot associate with Evil characters" prohibition is to keep smarty-pants players from having their cake and eating it too. "Oh, I'm technically not doing anything Evil," they'd say, "because I'm just hiring those guys to handle these problems. That way I get the XP, but I still get to keep all these keen paladin powers. I'm not actually Evil myself, personally, because of a technicality."

It's a rule that gives the DM a trump card: sorry, Charlie, I don't buy it, the DM can say: and you were fairly warned, because it's in the freakin' book.

[lemonhoney]

Someone should tell O-Chul It is not polite to talk with food in one's mouth. :smallannoyed:

[TheCountAlucard]

Great comic, Giant! That was awesome-funny! I hope you don't mind me pointing this out, but you misspelled "feed" in the comic.

[nosignal]

Someone should tell O-Chul It is not polite to talk with food in one's mouth. :smallannoyed:

Without washing his hands, even! And bare-bodied, to boot. Oh, the nerve!

[Manga Shoggoth]

Well, to be fair, her last moments would also be rather significant ones in O-Chul's life, as he wouldn't be in this predicament if she hadn't shown up at the last minute -- or if she hadn't cut Shojo down.

...

I'd like to think O-Chul was talking about that final incident as the one unfortunate exception, but if that was the case, he'd have mentioned two unfortunate exceptions, not one: Shojo's murder and the destruction of the gate. Then again... he might not consider her actions at the gate to have been an unfortunate exception, depending on how much he heard (he was facing the wrong way to see anything) before that explosion knocked him clear of the room.

After she killed Shojo, O-Chul mentioned that Miko had formerly been the best of them. It's possible -- and highly plausible -- that he's changed his mind since then. Considering what he's endured, I'm certainly not going to blame him if such is the case. Instead, I'm going to applaud him for the good grace he's displayed thus far. Whatever his current feelings concerning Miko, he's at least shown her the courtesy of not mentioning any names while expressing his views.

...

In any case, it's not defamation of character to point out that Miko moments made her a two-time winner for the Sapphire Guard's "Not Our Finest Hour" trophy. :smallwink:

I think O-Chul was referring to Miko herself, rather than any specific events in her life.

Even if he was, I don't think that O-Chul would be referring to the destruction of the gate, since he was attempting to do exactly the same thing just before Xykon paralysed him.

[Rollin]

Then again... he might not consider her actions at the gate to have been an unfortunate exception, depending on how much he heard (he was facing the wrong way to see anything) before that explosion knocked him clear of the room.
I disagree on one point. O-Chul was looking right at the Sapphire, since he was poised to cleave it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html) when Xykon paralyzed him. Miko fought her way into the throne room unarmed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), and took the sword out of his hands to destroy it with. Her final leap carried her higher than the Sapphire and thus into O-Chul's field of vision. The last thing he saw before the pain started must have been the look of triumph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html) on her face.

Given all this, his language about her is really quite moderate :smallamused:

EDIT: Oh, wait, that's not what you meant. Yes, he was facing the wrong way to see Soon getting the better of Xykon and Redcloak, so it's an open question whether he knew that the Gate was out of danger and need not be destroyed. That's a very interesting point.

[Estelindis]

Yes, he was facing the wrong way to see Soon getting the better of Xykon and Redcloak, so it's an open question whether he knew that the Gate was out of danger and need not be destroyed. That's a very interesting point.
Surely he could have heard the battle progressing in Soon's favour? Xykon and Redcloak's woozy comments as they lay on the ground come to mind...

[Kish]

More to the point, Redcloak's apparently explained it all to him since then. Whether he blamed Miko or considered her a hero as he saw the Sapphire being smashed, he certainly blames her now.

[Liliedhe]

Maybe he was just thinking of the fact that she killed Shojo and fell? That should count as her membership "not working out".

[ref]

OK, shatteredtower. I agree with what you said. I got a little carried over. :smallsmile:

[Shatteredtower]

Given all this, his language about her is really quite moderate :smallamused:He has certainly been a model of restraint, in this and other examples.


Surely he could have heard the battle progressing in Soon's favour? Xykon and Redcloak's woozy comments as they lay on the ground come to mind...It's a strong possibility, though we're not certain how much he'd have caught. Still, it's not like he had anything better to do at the time than take 10 on his Listen checks and his Wisdom score is probably high enough to award him a small bonus.


More to the point, Redcloak's apparently explained it all to him since then.Redcloak admitted that he and Xykon had escaped at death's door only because of Miko's intervention? He's explained that the rift's present condition is as a result of shattering the gate, but I don't see why he'd admit how close it was for him up until that point.

I am interested in how he came to the conclusion that Miko was crazy, though. It might just be because she broke the gate just as all seemed lost for him, but I'm wondering if he hasn't learned more of her story. He probably remembers her from their initial encounter, but I don't think she came across as crazed to him then. Thoroughly intolerable, on the other hand...

[xyzchyx]

Maybe he was just thinking of the fact that she killed Shojo and fell? That should count as her membership "not working out".That explanation certain passes the Occam's Razor test in my book.

[Roderick_BR]

Hehehe. Brilliant. Who knew you could make light hearted jokes with heavy themes? :smallbiggrin:
I wonder if Xykon knows that the MitD is not eating his babies, and is giving his stew to the paladin.
The comments about the secret club, and the "unfortunate exception", where pure gold.

[PhallicWarrior]

Aww, the MitD is so cute sometimes...

O'chul continues to make me laugh. "With one unfortunate exception" indeed.

[unstattedCommoner]

Gruel and unusual nourishment indeed.

[Bendal]

"With one unfortunate exception."

How...ironic O'Chuul has become. I suppose the MitD is there as a guard for him, but that's not how it is working out...

[TheKnifeofTrust]

Oh, wow. I logged in just to say how amazing that was. Like victory wrapped in awesome with a pure win cherry on top amazing.

"With one unfortunate exception" is prob going to end up in alot of sigs.

[Neopolis]

It took me a while to realize what he was talking about, haha.

[Ziggy's_Roady]

Dude...Giant wins again...O-Chul owned on the Sapphire

[chibibar]

That is funny. I think MiTD makes a good guard. While O'Chul is a prisoner, if O'Chul tries to escape, I'm sure the MiTD will stop him (orders from Xykon) and may kill Mr. Stiffy.

[Arachnophile]

I haven't posting in just about forever, but I had to say...
SICK BURN!! :D

P.S. I love the Monster in the Dark

[Eric]

If he can't conceive of doing anything but following orders and rules, how is that not Lawful?

If you're as dumb as a dumptruck, you can't think of anything for yourself to do, so you follow what someone else says.

That's part of the reason why the intelligence of the group is the lowest intelligence in that group. Divided by the number of people...

MiTD may not have the attention span to think of anything so any request is "Uh, OK". Because it cannot think of anything else to do.

[Eric]

Lawful to me implies preferring organized patterns of behavior, which we have no evidence of either way for MitD. There are a lot of strong indicators he is not evil, however.

Whatever his alignment is, he's kickass.

If MiTD ever DID kick ass, it would end up being ears...

[TARINunit9]

:smallsmile: Ha! Miko got Dissed!! (whatever that means; I think I know, but not sure...) Once again proving that Miko is the worst Paladin ever!! :smallsmile: :smallcool:

Oh crap!! The Miko Fan Club! *retreats* All right troops!! Take defensive formations!! MOVE MOVE MOVE!!!

[David Argall]

Surely he could have heard the battle progressing in Soon's favour? Xykon and Redcloak's woozy comments as they lay on the ground come to mind...

Could have? Possible, but Soon is our expert witness of the event and he treats it as entirely reasonable that Miko did not hear him shouting, not merely whispering. So the idea that O-Chul had at all a clear idea about what was going on is highly speculative.
[As long as we are being speculative, we might well speculate that the throne area has a built in megaphone, so the lord can easily issue his orders to everybody in the room. The boss not being interested in what subordinates think, there would not be any listening device as well. We have no evidence such a speaker was present, but it would be no shock to find there was one and it would cause Miko to be much easier to be heard than to hear.]

O'Chul has 3 possible known objections to Miko here. The last, the Gate, seems least likely. The idea that he would blame her for doing what he failed to do is, on the face of it, a reach.
Much more likely is that he is referring to Shojo. Indeed, it is hard to see how he would not consider that very unfortunate, and to think it better they never made her a paladin.
But we also have the point that Miko was irritating to be around. So O'Chul may have meant no more than that.

[Estelindis]

Could have? Possible, but Soon is our expert witness of the event and he treats it as entirely reasonable that Miko did not hear him shouting, not merely whispering. So the idea that O-Chul had at all a clear idea about what was going on is highly speculative.
Hey, I'm not going to claim that he necessarily knew. But the fact that Miko didn't hear is, I think, more a question of her not listening to anything but her own ego shouting loudly in her ears at that point in time.

Personally, I doubt O-Chul was referring to the fact that she was irritating to be around. He strikes me as the kind of person to look beyond those kinds of things. He seemed to think well of her as a warrior - so, presumably, as long as she lent her abilities to the right cause and didn't go astray, he would not have thought too poorly of her. Overall, I think it's most likely to have been a reference to her killing Shojo. But it could've just been a wholesale reference to her rigidity: not because it was irritating to him (as a side point: much as I like Hinjo, I do *not* like the way he referred to Miko as being sent away frequently because she annoyed people - part of being good is reaching out to isolated people, right?), but because it caused her to ruin her own life (never mind, for a moment, the negative effects on others).

[Commonblade]

Finally taking the plunge and getting an account so I can post.

Love the strip, and this might have come up, but what if the MitD is Snarl?

I mean what if the gods attacked it first, so it attacked back, then when they couldn't handle it they abandoned it (Lonely, searching for friends), then eons later, X lets him out. Snarl would be more like a force of nature (and thus neutral), kind of like Galactus.

Two cents from a n00b.

edit: Nevermind, Bartron has a thread that already says this better.

[LordSintax]

Whooo! the giant receives +20 awesomeness for this one. And if any of you laughed at the ninth panel, you're probably the type who laugh at those ever-so-tasteful dead baby jokes. (much like myself. :smallbiggrin: )

and the last panel is made up of pure unadulterated, undiluted awesome. first time in a little while i laughed loud enough to bring SEVERAL co-workers wandering over to see just what in the crap I was doing. Well done Giant, for making me just a little weirder to my fellow employees (fun-ployees?)

[cicely]

My thought is that the reason for the MiS being quartered near O-Chul, is so that the tantalizing smell of the beef stew can serve as a low-level torment, when O-Chul is stuck eating the no-doubt pretty nasty gruel. If so, it ain't working. :smallamused:

[David Argall]

O'Chul and the MitD are quartered close together more or less by accident most likely. They simply have an area to hold important prisoners and they didn't notice or care that the two were near each other.

Our writer doesn't repeat much, but if Miko comes up any more in the conversation, MitD may mention meeting her, and may give O'Chul a good idea on how to escape. However, it won't work this time, at least not the same way.

[Callista]

hey, it's not a dead baby joke. the baby is obviously still alive, and probably going to come toddling home to mommy with a banana peel on its head...

[Zorn]

The final panel made me sad, mostly, rather than amused. The way O-Chul referred to the Sapphire Guard like a secret club was just sad - especially because the way he said he had "once" belonged to it showed that he fully realised and accepted that their mandate of guarding the Azure City gate had ended with Miko's destruction of it. It was like he was closing a chapter on his life. Yet, in a sense, the chapter of being a paladin and an Azurite was still open - he seems to remain very faithful to those values. The last line about Miko was also sad for me, at first. After a few reads, I learned to smile at it. But it initially came across to me as wistful rather than smart-arsed.

I saw it the same way at first. Looking it over, I still think it wasn't intended to be funny. O'chul isn't really known for his witty remarks, and his facial expression doesn't hint towards joking at all. The closest analogy I can think of is the kind of painful reminder one gets when someone asks how a dead spouse (relative, friend, etc.) is doing. You don't want to get upset because they clearly knew nothing about it, but at the same time its painful. It seemed to me as if O'chul was reminiscing about the Sapphire Guard in a fond sort of way. Once he mentions Miko, the regret sets in.

One last point: the Sapphire Guard literally fought and died alongside each other. I find it hard to believe that any member of such an order would joke about members who lost their way. Instead, they'd feel guilty, wondering what they could have done differently to save her. O'chul in particular does not seem like someone who would take such a situation lightly, nor does he, as someone pointed out, seem like someone who would hold Miko's less-than-perfect social skills against her.

[factotum]

Personally, I doubt O-Chul was referring to the fact that she was irritating to be around. He strikes me as the kind of person to look beyond those kinds of things.

Clearly he did...remember him saying as they were carrying Miko off to prison, "A shame. She was our best warrior."? In fact, he didn't seem overly censurious of her for having just killed his liege lord, which makes me wonder if the "destroyed the Gate when Soon had Team Evil on the ropes" option might not be the most likely.

[johnnyriot999]

That was the darkest and cutest strip ever.

Babies in trashcans and no-girls-allowed clubs, it brings back fond memories of childhood. :smalltongue:

[fractal]

In Miko's defense, she did survive the initial encounter with Redcloak and warn Azure City about the impending invasion. Any of the other paladins might have failed. It's not her fault that Hinjo first spilled the beans about the Gate and then failed to adequately defend the city.

[Tilian]

O-chul and MitD are my OTP for life.

The garbage bit was just the right shade of funny and discomforting too.

O-chul certainly has enough hit points to survive an MitD-assisted escape like Miko, doesn't he?

[Eric]

Could have? Possible, but Soon is our expert witness of the event and he treats it as entirely reasonable that Miko did not hear him shouting, not merely whispering.

Presuming facts not in evidence.

[I did get a little tingle at using that back at you. I'm a bad Squid Thing!]:smallamused:

[David Argall]

Presuming facts not in evidence.


Please explain. A charge needs support, not merely its stating.

What facts are not in evidence?

[Invisible Queen]

Someone should tell O-Chul It is not polite to talk with food in one's mouth. :smallannoyed:
I wondered about that too. He's so unerringly polite except for that panel where he's stuffing his face and still talking. O.o

Re. Paladins associating with evil, to me it seems very unpaladiny if a Paladin were to avoid interaction with evil creatures just to save himself from falling. By associating and befriending the evil, a Paladin can spread law and good, at the risk of being corrupted himself. Isn't that just the sort of heroism a Paladin should display? Valuing your sense of your own virtue over the well-being of both other individuals and society as a whole is like, well, something Miko would do.

Oh by the way, good luck against Alan Moore, Giant. I think you honestly deserve that prize. With the amount of innovation and general kickass you've put into stick figure comics; the sheer creativity and productivity, your work could easily rival at least one issue of a given Alan Moore comic. :)

[The Wanderer]

Please explain. A charge needs support, not merely its stating.

What facts are not in evidence?

From what he's quoting, I presume Eric is saying "Where did Soon say that Miko might not have heard him"? And no, David, saying it happened between strips the way you asserted that Hinjo chewed Roy out for fighting the fallen Miko or that the Deva did the same isn't evidence either. :smallwink:

Small edit: And judging by the fact that Soon hears Miko with no problem, (as does Xykon, despite being near death) and the fact that there are exclamations marks in Soon's response, the only reason Miko would not have heard Soon is that she was, as per usual, shutting out all external evidence to listen only to the voices in her head.

[EricDerKonig]

I've started imagining O-Chul as Samurai Jack, and it fits very well, from the dialogue to his badassery.