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View Full Version : Warmage/Beguiler + Rainbow Servant?



Valairn
2008-04-16, 09:14 PM
I understand that this has probably been discussed before, but wouldn't this grant a Warmage or a Beguiler the full Cleric spell list to be cast spontaneously, not to mention 3 domains.

Given you lose 9th level spells if you go according to the table (which you probably should) rather than the text. So not totally ridiculous, but pretty cool none the less. What's the consensus on this, I have a pretty neat character idea that could go along with this, would it be game breaking, or merely a "neat idea."

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-04-16, 09:16 PM
would it be game breaking, or merely a "neat idea."

That would depend on the game. In some games you would really need to go by the text in order for it to be worth it. In others, going by the table should be fine. I can't imagine any game in the universe in which going by the Table would be broken, unless you are the only caster.

Valairn
2008-04-16, 09:35 PM
Sounds pretty reasonable, just wanted to make sure that giving up those delicious 9th level spells really was big enough of a sacrifice to make the combo not cheesetastic. I mean its a pretty long winded way of making a spontaneous cleric that isn't limited by spells known, cause honestly, its really not that great at being a mage, since warmages basic spell list is pretty much F-.

Chronos
2008-04-16, 09:39 PM
It's not broken unless you have some way of maintaining full casting. A pure cleric can do essentially the same thing through use of Miracle, and he can do it sooner, and also get 9th level cleric spells. Sure, you only have so many slots to use on Miracle, but most of the time, you'll just be able to use a cleric slot you had prepared anyway, and you do have enough Miracle slots to cover for the occasional surprise where you need spontenaity.

SoD
2008-04-17, 12:58 AM
I also have noticed this part, and started a thread on it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75556), if you want to check it out. But don't post, because, y'know, thread necromancy and all that.

Paul H
2008-04-17, 07:06 PM
Hi

Have posted this before, but yes I think this combo is awesome. However the consensus is that text trumps tables, so there are no loss of levels.

However...............

You don't get full cleric casting until you're 16th level. You also only get D6 HP/Lvl. Yoe even lose all those 'sudden' feats and casting in medium armour. (No full-plate).

The main problem, of course, is access to the Coatl.

Anyway, other classes also get many benefits for a 16th lvl character.
Druid 6 Master Many forms can shift 12/day into most anything, even Dragons. 7th lvl Druid can cast Enhance Wildshape, granting extraordinary abilities of their new form)!

Cheers
Paul H

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-17, 07:42 PM
Hi

Have posted this before, but yes I think this combo is awesome. However the consensus is that text trumps tables, so there are no loss of levels.

However...............

You don't get full cleric casting until you're 16th level. You also only get D6 HP/Lvl. Yoe even lose all those 'sudden' feats and casting in medium armour. (No full-plate). Divine Power and Righteous Might fixes this problem. Congratulations, you now have effectively full BAB and D10 HD. Have a nice day. And who needs armor? You've got Mirror Image and Greater Mirror Image, not to mention Improved Invisibility, Hide and Move Silently as class skills, and many other ways of not getting hit besides AC. You can pick up a feat to cast in medium armor, and can use Mithral Full Plate (which counts as medium armor) if you don't want to use Mithral Chain Shirt.


The main problem, of course, is access to the Coatl.

Anyway, other classes also get many benefits for a 16th lvl character.
Druid 6 Master Many forms can shift 12/day into most anything, even Dragons. 7th lvl Druid can cast Enhance Wildshape, granting extraordinary abilities of their new form)!

Cheers
Paul H

The Cotal is up to the GM, true. However, being able to spontaniously cast from the entire Cleric spell list is... crack. Seriously. Specially if you allow all the splatbooks. Wildshape? Fine, I can DP/RM to be nearly as tough as a wildshape. Furthermore, dip something with Turn Undead, and you can DMM Persist Cheeze. You've got all the advantages of a Skillmonkey, Arcane Caster, Cleric, and Meat Shield, all rolled into one. Congratulations, you've made the whole party obsolete.

Have a nice day.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-04-17, 10:04 PM
You've got all the advantages of a Skillmonkey, Arcane Caster, Cleric, and Meat Shield, all rolled into one. Congratulations, you've made the whole party obsolete.

Actually, you are a very very bad Arcane Caster, and skill monkey. A Beguiler/Rainbow Servant wouldn't be able to fill either of those roles in my usual party.