Xykon vs. Witch King

[Supreme Evil]

Xykon of Order of the Stick vs. the Witch King from Lord of the Rings.

Rules:

They are in a circular arena with a diameter of one mile.
They cannot fly more than a mile high in the air.
There is no cover, just empty ground.
Since Xykon is a lich and not a man, the prophecy isn't protecting the Witch King.
Xykon's "soul hidey-place" has been destroyed, so he will not regenerate.
The Witch King has his Fell Beast and Xykon has his zombie dragon.
Most important rule: I am the supreme authority on any rules that may be brought into question later. If a rule is unclear, my interpretation of it is what goes here.

Personally, I give it to Xykon on sheer power. He's epic level.

[Rutee]

Xykon, and I'll be surprised if it takes more then 10 seconds. He's an epic level DnD caster. I believe GoC statted Sauron, convincingly, as a CR 13. So the Witch King is definitely lesser.

[Rogue 7]

Aye. Fear-inducing screams and a magic sword are no match for summoning meteors from your fingertips.

[Ossian]

Come on, in a sword fight, maybe...But hey, the only ranged attack the WK might have is, more or less, some sort of weather control over the spirits of the Northern Winds (never trust them, and never turn your back on friends! (BG)). What is he going to do? Make Xykon catch a cold?

BTW, since this is a Xykon contest it could still be amusing to invent the sarcastic lines he'd pull to mock the WK. Giant's Humor for the win!

[GoC]

Xykon, and I'll be surprised if it takes more then 10 seconds. He's an epic level DnD caster. I believe GoC statted Sauron, convincingly, as a CR 13. So the Witch King is definitely lesser.

Are you trying to attract evil elitests?:smalleek:

[warty goblin]

Xykon, and I'll be surprised if it takes more then 10 seconds. He's an epic level DnD caster. I believe GoC statted Sauron, convincingly, as a CR 13. So the Witch King is definitely lesser.

Indeed, although I disagree with the ten seconds bit. Six, twelve or possibly eighteen strike me as far more likely. Although do we actually know that Xykon is epic level? I can't remember.

[Adumbration]

Indeed, although I disagree with the ten seconds bit. Six, twelve or possibly eighteen strike me as far more likely. Although do we actually know that Xykon is epic level? I can't remember.

Jeah, there's some pointers to that direction by the fact that he took over whatever epic level spell that protects the paladin city from teleport/scrying etc.

[GoC]

Indeed, although I disagree with the ten seconds bit. Six, twelve or possibly eighteen strike me as far more likely. Although do we actually know that Xykon is epic level? I can't remember.
Given the low fort saves and hp on undead I'd say one disintegrate should do.

[Mr. Scaly]

Are we setting aside the whole 'no man can slay me' thing that caused so much debate last few threads?

[hamishspence]

in the book the precise words were "no living man my hinder me" and in appendix "far off is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall" cue much rules-lawyerly twisting of words. But given that liches knuckles count as magic weapons, and they are undead, you could certainly make a case that Xykon does not count as a man anymore.

[TehJhu]

Since Xykon is a lich and not a man, the prophecy isn't protecting the Witch King.

I'm cool with that.

Even assuming the Witch-King is some kind of ghost, Xykon ices him. Probably casts forcecage, kills the Fell Beast, raises it, and then makes it and his dragon fight to the re-death while making snide comment at the WK's piercing screams.

[Ziren]

in the book the precise words were "no living man my hinder me" and in appendix "far off is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall" cue much rules-lawyerly twisting of words. But given that liches knuckles count as magic weapons, and they are undead, you could certainly make a case that Xykon does not count as a man anymore.

I'd say the appendix is refering to what acctually happend in the book. It would be pretty unfair to use this (Otherwise the Witch King wouldn't be able to kill Xykon as well, because most likely someone else will kill him in the comic).
And the other quote says "living man" and we all know that he doesn't fall in that category.

[hamishspence]

cloaked Xykon reveals himself, blows away witch king with the words "I am NOT living"

[Rutee]

Indeed, although I disagree with the ten seconds bit. Six, twelve or possibly eighteen strike me as far more likely. Although do we actually know that Xykon is epic level? I can't remember.

We do. He cast Cloister, and I don't think you can Spell-Complete Epic Spells unless you can already cast them. Either way, to take a quick look.. Let's say he's a straight 12HD monster, since I'm saying he's CR 12 (Probably lower. Even if he was Sauron's number 1 lt, I doubt he'd be that close in power) due to laziness. Since he's Undead, he's got 6.5 HP/level base, and we'll give him full first hit dice for being unique. So 83 hit points. A Meteor Swarm cast on one specific character is going to be 32d6. So on average, it's going to smack a non-resisting target down by about.. 112 damage. ...Well he could save, yeah. So yeah, it /might/ take 12 seconds. And that was just picking a blasty spell, since Xykon likes blasting :P

Also, as to prophecy protection.. Prophecies are supposed to be taken poetically. Theoretically, anyone who has lost claim to their humanity is as equally capable of beating the prophecy as Eowyn. This also applies to the non-human. And to several other very clever (Though clearly 4th wall) abuses.

[GoC]

We do. He cast Cloister, and I don't think you can Spell-Complete Epic Spells unless you can already cast them. Either way, to take a quick look.. Let's say he's a straight 12HD monster, since I'm saying he's CR 12 (Probably lower. Even if he was Sauron's number 1 lt, I doubt he'd be that close in power) due to laziness. Since he's Undead, he's got 6.5 HP/level base, and we'll give him full first hit dice for being unique. So 83 hit points. A Meteor Swarm cast on one specific character is going to be 32d6. So on average, it's going to smack a non-resisting target down by about.. 112 damage. ...Well he could save, yeah. So yeah, it /might/ take 12 seconds. And that was just picking a blasty spell, since Xykon likes blasting :P

Don't try bringing the Witch King into D&D mechanics or we'll never make any progress.

[Rutee]

*Shrug* Does he survive anything remotely similar to Meteor Swarm? It's an LotR character against someone with geography-alterring power. How is he not boned outright?

[Ossian]

Don't try bringing the Witch King into D&D mechanics or we'll never make any progress.

Wise stance. Still, I don't thinkl statting the WK in d20 can alter the end of this battle. He can be a 30 HD with 240 HP, AC 40 and six FULL bab +45 attacks with the sword of unholy killing...he will still be facing a teleporting and shielded missile installation with an endless (as far as the bttle can last) supply of warheads.

O.

[Mr. Scaly]

in the book the precise words were "no living man my hinder me" and in appendix "far off is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall" cue much rules-lawyerly twisting of words. But given that liches knuckles count as magic weapons, and they are undead, you could certainly make a case that Xykon does not count as a man anymore.

Works for me.

In that case, all Xykon has to do is nuke the fellbeast with something then stay up in the air and vapourise WK from a distance.

[EvilElitest]

Xykon, and I'll be surprised if it takes more then 10 seconds. He's an epic level DnD caster. I believe GoC statted Sauron, convincingly, as a CR 13. So the Witch King is definitely lesser.

1. GoC's stated him using a model for gods i believe
2. And even then it wasn't absolute

That being said, lets look at the WK and what he can do
I assume we are throwing his prophecy and his immortality and his troops
1. Fear. useless against Xykon
2. Despair, against useless
3. flaming sword, um, uesles
4. Power over flame, nothing special
5. Power over ice, noting special
6. Flight, Xykon can do it as well
7. incorporeal, meh, nothing special
8. Fighting skills, um yeah, lets see how that works
9. Morgul Blade, again useless
10. troll ninjas, yeah good luck
11. Armor, useless
12. Magic power. One could make an argument that LOTRS will domination could defeat Xykon but i don't know if that could be established, Rowan is in South America so i don't know how that could work
13. miltary planning goes to the WK, through i don't know if he could last long enough before Xykon destorys him however
14. Black Breath is useless sadly
15. And Xykon's magic could hurt him, i think this goes to Xykon


Unless this is a conflict between armies, Xykon vs. Morgul (not morder). Then we will have an interesting conflict
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

Troll Ninjas?!

[EvilElitest]

Troll Ninjas?!

there in the book and in the movie
from
EE

[Steven the Lich]

there in the book and in the movie
from
EE

Really? Hard to imagine those ten foot rock giants in black suits playing with ninjitsu and what not. I have seen no ninja trolls in the movie, and I'm not quite done with the books.
EE, I'm afraid this is a 1v1 battle, so trolls with shruiken and kunai aren't really a factor.

I'm not entirely sure who'd win in this case. However... let us not forget, that while being an epic level spell caster, Xykon is at severe danger without a phylactery, and I think some of us may be counting the fell beast too slow. I'm not entirely sure how fast it moves, but I'm confident it could maneuver around a few spells. WK has a better chance than most are presuming. We also seem to exclude a fact here... Xykon was made purely for comedy, WK was made for fantasy drama or something.

My assessment... WK has as great as a chance as Xykon. Xykons magic is not an instant win, neither is his level, and he'd rather play Yahtzee than plan an invasion on Azure City. WK is as epic as Xykon if not more, and demonstrates a higher level of competance and strategic thinking, and even though Xykon has more factors working for him, he would toy with his enemies... WK would toy with foes he believed to be much weaker than him, like a man (when he fought Eowyn), but against Xykon, he would not hold back, since it is clear Xykon is pretty dang powerful.
Oh yeah... another thing I believe... doesn't WK has some sort of shield protecting him that was only broken by the barrowblade Pippin used? Just curious...

[Ossian]

Troll Ninjas?!

maybe in 300? :smallbiggrin:

[Oslecamo]

There is a reason why the witch king



As for resistance to nukes, you can blast the witch king to bits, but if you're not the chosen one with the chosen weapon, he'll just come back again in some days.

Altough I can see the battle going like this:

Xykon:Finger of death!
Witch King:Muahaha I'm far beyond the weakness of flesh!
Xykon:Symbol of Insanity!
WK: MI'm not vulnerableto such petty tricks!
Xykon:Paralyzing touch!
WK:Ok, the first ones were funny, but I'm an undead,just like you...
Xykon: So what? Hold person!
WK:Now, seriously, stop it, you're creeping me out...
Xykon:Would you mind stop moving and lose so I can have fun with you later?
WK:Ok, this is enough(swing huge weapon)
Xykon:Heheh tickles... Finger of death!

[Steven the Lich]

There is a reason why the witch king



As for resistance to nukes, you can blast the witch king to bits, but if you're not the chosen one with the chosen weapon, he'll just come back again in some days.

Altough I can see the battle going like this:

Xykon:Finger of death!
Witch King:Muahaha I'm far beyond the weakness of flesh!
Xykon:Symbol of Insanity!
WK: MI'm not vulnerableto such petty tricks!
Xykon:Paralyzing touch!
WK:Ok, the first ones were funny, but I'm an undead,just like you...
Xykon: So what? Hold person!
WK:Now, seriously, stop it, you're creeping me out...
Xykon:Would you mind stop moving and lose so I can have fun with you later?
WK:Ok, this is enough(swing huge weapon)
Xykon:Heheh tickles... Finger of death!
Hehe, that was pretty good. Though I'm not so sure Xykons reaction to the flail would be accurate... he doesn't have his phylactery, you know, and he cannot regenerate. He's bone too... I can imagine that as rather painful.
And actually, from the concept I got, even if you are the chosen one he only comes back in a matter of days still (In the movie and book he doesn't come back because Sauron went supernova before WK could manifest again).
However, Xykon falls under the category of undead, and so is not a man. But still, doesn't one still require a barrow sword, or whatever its called, to penetrate the WK's protection, if there is one? If so, Xykon is Doooooooooooooommmmed!

[EvilElitest]

Really? Hard to imagine those ten foot rock giants in black suits playing with ninjitsu and what not. I have seen no ninja trolls in the movie, and I'm not quite done with the books.
EE, I'm afraid this is a 1v1 battle, so trolls with shruiken and kunai aren't really a factor.

There were troll ninjas in the books, they have a special chapter somewhere in the back.

And they are in the movie too, or at least the second too. They fight with the ent ninjas in both cases

In helms deep both ninjas are fighting on top of the tower


And at Minis Tirith troll ninjas destroy whole legions of gondorian ninjas


I'm not entirely sure who'd win in this case. However... let us not forget, that while being an epic level spell caster, Xykon is at severe danger without a phylactery, and I think some of us may be counting the fell beast too slow. I'm not entirely sure how fast it moves, but I'm confident it could maneuver around a few spells. WK has a better chance than most are presuming. We also seem to exclude a fact here... Xykon was made purely for comedy, WK was made for fantasy drama or something.
good point



My assessment... WK has as great as a chance as Xykon. Xykons magic is not an instant win, neither is his level, and he'd rather play Yahtzee than plan an invasion on Azure City. WK is as epic as Xykon if not more, and demonstrates a higher level of competance and strategic thinking, and even though Xykon has more factors working for him, he would toy with his enemies... WK would toy with foes he believed to be much weaker than him, like a man (when he fought Eowyn), but against Xykon, he would not hold back, since it is clear Xykon is pretty dang powerful.
very good point, Xykon's tatical skills are, well, lets say, lacking




Oh yeah... another thing I believe... doesn't WK has some sort of shield protecting him that was only broken by the barrowblade Pippin used? Just curious...
He does against weapons. You need some sort of good anti undead magic weapon to hurt him there. However he can be hurt by direct good magic......which Xykon lacks. I think normal magic like magic missal might work, but the Wk does have limited elemental control over fire and ice
from
EE

[Illiterate Scribe]

I preferred the Balrog Dragoons, myself. When they showed up at Helm's Deep, it was so awesome.

[GoC]

Really? Hard to imagine those ten foot rock giants in black suits playing with ninjitsu and what not. I have seen no ninja trolls in the movie, and I'm not quite done with the books.
I checked the book. No mention of troll ninjas. The only trolls who ever do anything (apart from the trolls in the battle for pelenor fields which are described as larger and more muscular men) are the ones from The Hobbit.

I'm not entirely sure who'd win in this case. However... let us not forget, that while being an epic level spell caster, Xykon is at severe danger without a phylactery, and I think some of us may be counting the fell beast too slow.
I'm not entirely sure how fast it moves, but I'm confident it could maneuver around a few spells.
Dex better than 30? That's the most maneuverable creature in the elemental plane of air.


Xykons magic is not an instant win,
Disintegrate.


WK is as epic as Xykon if not more,
Rubbish.


Oh yeah... another thing I believe... doesn't WK has some sort of shield protecting him that was only broken by the barrowblade Pippin used? Just curious...
Nope.

[EvilElitest]

I checked the book. No mention of troll ninjas. The only trolls who ever do anything (apart from the trolls in the battle for pelenor fields which are described as larger and more muscular men) are the ones from The Hobbit.


Um, i don't know what you talking about, there were obvious reference to the troll ninjas. In the movies too.


Dex better than 30? That's the most maneuverable creature in the elemental plane of air.

So what? It is still fast and Xykon isn't perfect, he did lose to roy due to tactical errors problems



Disintegrate.
Incorporeal.


Rubbish.
Can break magic weapons with a wave of his hand. Pretty nifty that.



Nope.

Um, yeah he did, what are you talking about? :smallconfused:

That has been dicussed over and over again. Good magic can hurt him however
from
EE

[Steven the Lich]

Nope.
I suppose I was a bit vague in that statement... does he not have a magical barrier that was only broken by Pippins sword.
And yes, there is a magical barrier. I'm quite sure... or all weapons stabbed into him are turned to ash.


Disintegrate.
I put forth a reasonable counter...
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0437.html
WK is bound to have some spell resistance... and the incorporael fact EE put forth also works.

There were troll ninjas in the books, they have a special chapter somewhere in the back.

And they are in the movie too, or at least the second too. They fight with the ent ninjas in both cases

In helms deep both ninjas are fighting on top of the tower


And at Minis Tirith troll ninjas destroy whole legions of gondorian ninjas Woah... thats a whole lot of ninjas... Trolls, ents, gondorians... who wasn't a ninja?

[EvilElitest]

I suppose I was a bit vague in that statement... does he not have a magical barrier that was only broken by Pippins sword.
And yes, there is a magical barrier. I'm quite sure... or all weapons stabbed into him are turned to ash.

Basically if the weapon isn't good and anti undead, or made by the men of the west, it can't hurt him. All weapons, magical or not will disintegrate if they touch him.


I put forth a reasonable counter...
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0437.html
WK is bound to have some spell resistance... and the incorporael fact EE put forth also works.

Nice



Woah... thats a whole lot of ninjas... Trolls, ents, gondorians... who wasn't a ninja?

you apparently, because you didn't notice them. I mean why do you think legolas couldn't shoot that one orc berserker when he can shoot a few dozen guys in full armor while sliding down a stair case. The ninjas blocked them, however none ninjas can't tell:smallwink:
in the game Third Age, there are trolls who look like ninjas actually, no joke. Duel wielding trolls with i think headbands.

from
EE

[Rutee]

I'm not entirely sure who'd win in this case. However... let us not forget, that while being an epic level spell caster, Xykon is at severe danger without a phylactery,
Now, you know DnD better then me, so you'll have to explain that one. Are Liches nerfed without the phylactery? I mean, I know he can't resurrect, but I don't figure these to the Pain anyway, just to the one death, so I didn't consider it a factor.

[EvilElitest]

Now, you know DnD better then me, so you'll have to explain that one. Are Liches nerfed without the phylactery? I mean, I know he can't resurrect, but I don't figure these to the Pain anyway, just to the one death, so I didn't consider it a factor.

Not really actually rutee. You can't kill them permenentally without the phylactery, but other than that, it really don't nerf him at all.
from
EE

[GoC]

And yes, there is a magical barrier. I'm quite sure... or all weapons stabbed into him are turned to ash.
Yes, but it wasn't broken after merry stabbed him.


I put forth a reasonable counter...
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0437.html
WK is bound to have some spell resistance...
That's completely unknown. And why would it be SR over 20? No evidence whatsoever for the wraith king having SR high enough to pose a serious problem.


Um, i don't know what you talking about, there were obvious reference to the troll ninjas. In the movies too.
*facepalm*
Sorry, I left my sarcasm detector off again.:smallfrown:


Incorporeal.
Nope.
The only evidence regarding the Witch King's incorporeability is against it. Specifically: Getting washed away, being able to hold daggers, riding a fell beast, using a cloak, wearing armor (hauberk), having sinews and knees, being stabbed by Frodo and walking.
Even if it did two shots would do.
Or Forcecage.


Can break magic weapons with a wave of his hand. Pretty nifty that.
Agreed but not really relevant to a fight with Xykon. It also wasn't a very impressive sword.


Um, yeah he did, what are you talking about? :smallconfused:
It wasn't a shield. It was that he destroys all bladed weapons (according to strider). And it wasn't instantly destroyed by the stabbing (which was done by Merry). Wasn't Eowyn's sword destroyed as well?

[EvilElitest]

Yes, but it wasn't broken after merry stabbed him.

Didn't it break the spell, thus allowing Eowyen to hurt him? Oh well


That's completely unknown. And why would it be SR over 20? No evidence whatsoever for the wraith king having SR high enough to pose a serious problem.

LortR will magic remember. He said to be near equal if not greater than Gandalf the White



*facepalm*
Sorry, I left my sarcasm detector off again.:smallfrown:

Dude, where was a whole half chapter on the troll ninjas, same snaps one's neck


Nope.
The only evidence regarding the Witch King's incorporeability is against it. Specifically: Getting washed away, being able to hold daggers, riding a fell beast, using a cloak, wearing armor (hauberk), having sinews and knees, being stabbed by Frodo and walking.
Even if it did two shots would do.
Or Forcecage.
1. There is no body to disinergrate
2. He is also said to dwell in the demi plane that hte WK and other nazgul come from, thus very etheral
3. Actually he is also described as a spirit
4. He can be hurt by magical weapons like an incorperal spirit can, but he wouldn't be able to be disergrated. A magic missile would work ironically enough
5. some incorperal creatures can do those things
6. Could he just make his spirit leave like he did after the river near Riven dale (remember he was the only wraith who wasn't destroyed)


Agreed but not really relevant to a fight with Xykon. It also wasn't a very impressive sword.
1) yes it was, it was one of the magical barrow swords
2) wands, finger bones, ect. Gandalf shatters rock with similar magic



It wasn't a shield. It was that he destroys all bladed weapons (according to strider). And it wasn't instantly destroyed by the stabbing (which was done by Merry). Wasn't Eowyn's sword destroyed as well?
1) He is refering to the spell that pervents not anti undead good weapons from hurting him
2) the destorying weapons thing is different, even after you destroy his protection spell your sword will still fall apart

A lot of Xykon's spells won't work, and he is a sorcerer, but that being said he has a lot of spells
from
EE

[GoC]

1. There is no body to disinergrate
2. He is also said to dwell in the demi plane that hte WK and other nazgul come from, thus very etheral
3. Actually he is also described as a spirit
4. He can be hurt by magical weapons like an incorperal spirit can, but he wouldn't be able to be disergrated. A magic missile would work ironically enough
5. some incorperal creatures can do those things
6. Could he just make his spirit leave like he did after the river near Riven dale
I'll address 3 and 6 as the rest either aren't actual arguments or are incomplete.
All creatures in LotR are spirits when you get down to it. The maia are definitely spirits but look at Saruman.
Indeed. Anti-undead magic may be needed to prevent his resurrection.


(remember he was the only wraith who wasn't destroyed)
Really?

The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore.
At that moment there came a roaring and a rushing; a noise of loud waters rolling many stones. Dimly Frodo saw the river below him rise, and down along its course there came a plumed cavalry of waves. White flames seemed to Frodo to flicker on their crests and he half fancied that he saw amid the water white riders upon white horses with frothing manes. The three Riders that were still in the midst of the Ford were overwhelmed; they disappeared, buried suddenly under angry foam.


1) yes it was, it was one of the magical barrow swords
It doesn't say where the sword came from. Not all the barrow swords were magical.


1) He is refering to the spell that pervents not anti undead good weapons from hurting him
Ah, yes that's a very useful ability. Like a lot of things in Tolkien there's only one instance of this (a single metallic dagger wielded by a hobbit) though so generalizing may be difficult.
Would it have killed the guy to be consistent?:smallannoyed:


A lot of Xykon's spells won't work, and he is a sorcerer, but that being said he has a lot of spells
from
EE
Blasty spells are his favorites and he knows Forcecage. Both should work just fine.

[Iliad]

Actually I think WK has a good chance

Although immune to fear, the scream gotta require a concentration check with some pretty heavy modifiers, also knowing xykon he probably didn't take many ranks.

Xykon hasn't any of the weapons that can slay him, if he disintegrates, WK will just come back in a few days

Also WK fought Gandalf(in the movie anyway, not so sure about the book) in Gondor and beat him, the arrival of Rohans distracted WK

So I don't think Xykon will have this in a bag

[Mr. Scaly]

Just to add some sarcasm to balance out the troll ninja comment:

Orcs can be wounded by magical weapons too, but it don't make them incorporeal. :-P

Okay, I'm done.

[EvilElitest]

I'll address 3 and 6 as the rest either aren't actual arguments or are incomplete.

Actually the rest are quite accurate, you can't disingreate a spirit



All creatures in LotR are spirits when you get down to it. The maia are definitely spirits but look at Saruman.
Indeed. Anti-undead magic may be needed to prevent his resurrection.

Spirits with mortal shells, which the WK does not half, hence wraith

Really?

Read on, they report that of the nine rider, they found the remains of nine horses and eight cloaks. The WK wasn't destroyed. Hurt and driven away yes, but not destroyed


It doesn't say where the sword came from. Not all the barrow swords were magical.
1) It came from the same barrow as both Pippin's Sam's and Merry's swords, which were all similar and possessing magical powers
2) All of them were described as barrow swords, which are said to be magica.
3) I think Tom said it was magical


Ah, yes that's a very useful ability. Like a lot of things in Tolkien there's only one instance of this (a single metallic dagger wielded by a hobbit) though so generalizing may be difficult.
Would it have killed the guy to be consistent?:smallannoyed:

1) the protection wasn't inconsistent certainly, it was mentioned a few times
2) the sword breaking is similar to the breaking other people do (Gandalf for example)
3) Meh, Tolkien's style is like the one found in Beowulf. So you'd have to call Beowulf bad to call him bad and then both me and Rutee will kill you




Blasty spells are his favorites and he knows Forcecage. Both should work just fine.

Not force cage, he'd just use the spirit world, but some blasty spells yes. Meteor swarm
from
EE

[GoC]

Actually the rest are quite accurate, you can't disingreate a spirit
You can disintegrate ghosts so yes you can.


Spirits with mortal shells, which the WK does not half, hence wraith
He could just be similar to a lich. Still having his mortal shell but regenerating when destroyed. Speaking of which their regeneration comes from Sauron so without him one kill is all that's needed.
Anyway we should make it a one death match because otherwise the fight will never end.


Read on, they report that of the nine rider, they found the remains of nine horses and eight cloaks. The WK wasn't destroyed. Hurt and driven away yes, but not destroyed
8 horses and one cloak. None were truly destroyed but all had to return to Mordor.


1) It came from the same barrow as both Pippin's Sam's and Merry's swords, which were all similar and possessing magical powers
2) All of them were described as barrow swords, which are said to be magica.
3) I think Tom said it was magical
And the reason Merry's did lots of damage and Frodo's did none? I'm beginning to think it could have been either the armor WK is wearing or the location of the hit. This could mean that while swords are destroyed they still do damage. We should end this tangent.
Where?
No, Tom doesn't say they're magical he says they'll make good short swords for hobbits.


1) the protection wasn't inconsistent certainly, it was mentioned a few times
2) the sword breaking is similar to the breaking other people do (Gandalf for example)
3) Meh, Tolkien's style is like the one found in Beowulf. So you'd have to call Beowulf bad to call him bad and then both me and Rutee will kill you
Me and my bad choice of words. I meant that abilities being used only once is very annoying when trying to find out how they work and what their limits are. These things are important to vs threads.
Gandalf breaks a staff, a symbol of authority and power.
I hated Beowulf.:smallbiggrin:


Not force cage, he'd just use the spirit world, but some blasty spells yes. Meteor swarm
from
EE
Huh? The ethereal plane is affected by forcecage. And the wraith plane is joined with the material plane in the same way as the ethereal. In fact the model for the ethereal plane probably came from Lord of the Rings!

[EvilElitest]

You can disintegrate ghosts so yes you can.

Wraiths?


He could just be similar to a lich. Still having his mortal shell but regenerating when destroyed. Speaking of which their regeneration comes from Sauron so without him one kill is all that's needed.
Anyway we should make it a one death match because otherwise the fight will never end.
More like a wraith, a traditional bodyless creature

Also more to the point, the WK is a spirital being and lives in the


8 horses and one cloak. None were truly destroyed but all had to return to Mordor.

Oh so his horse didn't even die. He is just that badass

Anyways they returned because most of them were destroyed and they needed to get hte fell beast




And the reason Merry's did lots of damage and Frodo's did none? I'm beginning to think it could have been either the armor WK is wearing or the location of the hit. This could mean that while swords are destroyed they still do damage. We should end this tangent.
It specifically said that Frodo attack missed. Aragorn mentioned that it would be destoryed if it had hit
point is that magic weapons can be destroyed


Me and my bad choice of words. I meant that abilities being used only once is very annoying when trying to find out how they work and what their limits are. These things are important to vs threads.
I know but if it can be uses once we assume it can be used again unless a limit is mentioned




Gandalf breaks a staff, a symbol of authority and power.
I hated Beowulf.:smallbiggrin:

1) a magical staff held by a major wizard
2) Oh, rutee will hurt you




Huh? The ethereal plane is affected by forcecage. And the wraith plane is joined with the material plane in the same way as the ethereal. In fact the model for the ethereal plane probably came from Lord of the Rings!
Yeah it most likely did, except this is more like hte spirit world. Not quite the same.
from
EE