[Possible BIG spoilers] Roy/O-Chul

[Lorn]

Spoilered for your convenience.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe Roy just isn't coming back and O-Chul is, essentially, a replacement?

Seriously - think about it. Roy's been gone a very long time now (realtime-wise.) Over 100 strips now.

Meanwhile, O-Chul is getting a LOT of character development. Possibly gaining levels.

They both fill a very similar role, they're both easily intelligent enough to lead the party, and if necessary probably both capable of taking Belkar out, thus are (probably) able to exert some control over him.

Granted, the rest of the Order will do everything they possibly can to ressurect Roy - but how long has it been? What kind of massively powerful ressurection spell will they need? How much in spell components will this take to cast? Does the Order, in fact, have that kind of money/resources, noting that one half is essentially on the run from a hobgoblin army and the other half has been stranded at sea for however long?

Yes, chances are Roy will come back at some point. But even if he does... there's a good chance it won't be for a very, very long time.

Anyone?

[Porthos]

We heard the exact same argument when Hinjo was getting so much "screen" time and when various members of The Resistance were present.

Roy's body is en-route to a place where it can potentially be ressed. Haley will also soon be able to be contacted by Elan and co. So it's only a matter of time before Roy comes back.

Besides, he has Unfinished Business to do, plot wise. And in DnD, if you have Unfinished Business, you have a pretty high chance of finishing your To Do List. :smallbiggrin:

So, no, I tend not to buy into that argument. :smallsmile:

[R.O.A.]

While a good point that they both are similar, and able to fill the straight-man leader role for oots, I have serious doubts that Rich would replace Roy, after being in, and often being the focus of the storyline for 500ish strips (not including his role in OOPC) and the fact the group was originally formed by him, based on his quest.
Also, were Rich thinking of replacing him, I think it would be more likely that he never show Roy in the afterlife, thus phasing him out the story, and out of the reader's attention. As it is, He has been kept active, with his own sub-plots and strips, which does not make hm seem a character about to be replaced.
Yours,
Roa.

[Green Bean]

Hmm. My experience with fanfiction led me to believe this thread would be on something very different. :smallamused:

[lemonhoney]

Hmm. My experience with fanfiction led me to believe this thread would be on something very different. :smallamused:

Oh good, I wasn't the only one.:smallredface:

[SillyRobot]

Granted, the rest of the Order will do everything they possibly can to ressurect Roy - but how long has it been? What kind of massively powerful ressurection spell will they need? How much in spell components will this take to cast? Does the Order, in fact, have that kind of money/resources, noting that one half is essentially on the run from a hobgoblin army and the other half has been stranded at sea for however long?


They'll need the 7th level spell; it resurrects someone who has been dead up to 10 years per caster level.

[FMArthur]

It looks to me that Roy's player is temporarily getting to use O-Chul until he can get back into action. In the context of an actual game, having a character watch from the clouds for this long would be pretty irresponsible DMing. But I don't know if that matters, since it's never openly acknowledged that the characters have players, despite the savage beating the fourth wall takes in other areas.

[DeadmanXI]

They'll need the 7th level spell; it resurrects someone who has been dead up to 10 years per caster level.

Which Durkon can almost certainly cast.

[Zeitgeist]

Really, even if it was speculated about Hinjo before, O-Chul is a much better replacement. O-Chul is a lot more patient than Roy. Roy would have no doubt gotten very tired of and frustrated with the MitD.

He'd be a good replacement, but I doubt Roy's death is permanent.

[FujinAkari]

It looks to me that Roy's player is temporarily getting to use O-Chul until he can get back into action.

Roy doesn't have a player, Roy is a person and OOTS is a campaign setting, but there is no D&D game actually happening and no player directing Roy's actions, at least according to Rich.

[Callista]

O-Chul doesn't have enough faults to be a main character. He'd end up getting turned into a marty-stu and it wouldn't be pretty.

[lemonhoney]

O-Chul doesn't have enough faults to be a main character. He'd end up getting turned into a marty-stu and it wouldn't be pretty.

I thought they were called Gary-Stu's? :smallconfused:

[Kish]

Spoilered for your convenience.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe Roy just isn't coming back
Yes. It's occured to Charles Phipps.

Most of the rest of us think this sentence forms the base of an epileptic tree, whatever follows it.

[factotum]

Which Durkon can almost certainly cast.

Provided he has the 10,000gp worth of diamonds required as a material component for the spell...

[maxon]

I think this unlikely. O-Chul, while admirable and perhaps the only paladin I have ever liked, is not nearly as funny as Roy.

[slayerx]

Provided he has the 10,000gp worth of diamonds required as a material component for the spell...

Considering Durkon was prepared to "raise 'im this instant" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html)
I think it's safe to say he has the necessary spell components for the spell... a healers raise dead spells would be worthless out in the field if they didn't carry around a diamond or two

[factotum]

In that case, where did he get those diamonds from? Vaarsuvius states quite clearly in strip #286 that Durkon doesn't even possess the 5000gp worth of diamonds required for a conventional Raise Dead, and I can't see Durkon has been in a situation where he could obtain those diamonds since that happened...

[Fitzclowningham]

While I don't see O-Chul as a replacement for Roy, I do wonder where O will figure in Azure City leadership when the gobbos are driven out. He is now approaching something of a legendary status among the remaining AC commoners, while Hinjo is off somewhere out of harm's way. Along with the fact that a sizable proportion of the population distrusts Hinjo (not to mention that O has likely pulled even or surpassed Hinjo level-wise), things could get interesting in AC politics (more interesting?) later on. I look forward to it. :smallbiggrin:

[dish]

I agree with those above who believe that all signs point to Roy's eventual return. The Giant will return Roy in his own sweet and fitting time, and we'll all love it when he does because the Giant is a master story-teller who knows precisely when to follow and when to break the rules.

I do fear, as others have suggested, that O'Chul may be being set up in order to be sacrificed. (I hope he manages to convert the Mitd beforehand if this is so.)

[pankake]

While I don't see O-Chul as a replacement for Roy, I do wonder where O will figure in Azure City leadership when the gobbos are driven out. He is now approaching something of a legendary status among the remaining AC commoners, while Hinjo is off somewhere out of harm's way. Along with the fact that a sizable proportion of the population distrusts Hinjo (not to mention that O has likely pulled even or surpassed Hinjo level-wise), things could get interesting in AC politics (more interesting?) later on. I look forward to it. :smallbiggrin:


I'm thinking that O will prompted to leave on his own after showing his support for Hinjo. Knowing that O is a pretty loyal and something of an Icon to the Refugees (and possibly the Resistance). His support could turn the hand of 'Rightfull leader' over back to Hinjo; or in a odd twist of events send the currently exiled Hinjo into a more permante exile. It all depends on how O feals about Hinjo's leadership abilities. inprisonment can lead to resent to those who you would have supported if you hadn't been in 'the pen' to begin with.

Those thoughts aside; I look forward to Roy reclaiming his rightfull role as leader of the Order. However, I have a fealing that the order will not be quite the same as when it first parted ways. This is similar to the series Reboot where Bob was 'dead' and then returned much changed from his life traveling and thinking on his own.

[Savageman]

OR:
Perhaps Roy will realize/believe that he cannot be raised (he has a limited understanding of magic) and find a loophole that does BOTH: "raise" Roy and make O-Chul a main character. Posession, anyone?
I know it's a longshot, but as has been pointed out Roy has been out of the running for a while (realtime and in-game). O-Chul has gotten more screentime than could reasonably be expected(he's not necesary to explain what's been happening in AC, RC and X could just reference him) and more and more people LIKE O-Chul. So, what are the odds that (at least temporarily) Roy and O-Chul could inhabit the same body, working to escape, and help the Order (and possibly get Roy raised?). Plus, lots of interesting conversations between O and Roy, about the Order's involvement in the fall of AC, their quest against Xykon, and the paladin code.

[factotum]

OR:
Perhaps Roy will realize/believe that he cannot be raised (he has a limited understanding of magic) and find a loophole that does BOTH: "raise" Roy and make O-Chul a main character. Posession, anyone?


I find it extremely difficult to see how a pair of Lawful Good characters would start fiddling around with possession, which I'm pretty sure is an intrinsically evil act.

Fact is, despite what I said above, I think Roy IS going to get raised...it just isn't going to happen for a while; expect it around strip 700 or thereabouts. I just don't see how O-Chul somehow replacing Roy as the leader of OotS would help matters much, considering that both sections of the split Order are currently nowhere near him!

[orrion]

Savage, I'm pretty sure that if Roy knows the rules about epics spells and feats, it's a safe bet to assume that he knows the rules about ressurections.

[Mauve Shirt]

Hmm. My experience with fanfiction led me to believe this thread would be on something very different. :smallamused:

Me too XD

If Rich were to for some reason replace Roy, I'd think it would be with Hinjo. But he won't replace Roy. Because he's THE main character. As evidenced by the party falling apart, he's the only thing that can keep them together.

Also, as has been said, I doubt we'd get so much detail into his afterlife, not to mention his coming down as a ghost, if he were to be replaced.

[Hesquidor]

Is it possible he could be a replacement for Durkon? After all according to the Oracle he's going to return to the dwarven lands "posthumously", and the reason for Durkon's trip into the human lands does seem to indicate that we will see his return.

'Course that does mean they'd be without a cleric.

[factotum]

He's not much of a replacement for Durkon, then, is he? :smallconfused:

[Stormpax]

I think that Roy will be coming back eventually, and while I can see why he would think O-Chul would be taking his place I doubt that will happen. And why else would Rich do so many strips with Roy in heaven if he was going to cut him. Not to mention that O-Chul isn't as funny as Roy. :smallbiggrin:

[dish]

So who's writing the Roy/O'Chul slashfic? :smallyuk:

Umm....no. I'm sure Roy's coming back. O'Chul will have his own arc.

[Hesquidor]

He's not much of a replacement for Durkon, then, is he? :smallconfused:

All I'm saying is that character wise, as the groups reliable mentor-ish type, he fits the dynamic.

[Kish]

Not a dwarf, not a cleric...Why would anyone in the group be getting replaced anyway? :smallconfused:

[Laurentio]

All I'm saying is that character wise, as the groups reliable mentor-ish type, he fits the dynamic.
Durkan is much more than that. It's a healer, and it's the dwarf. And while him and O-Chul are both Lawful Good, they have really different interpretation of the alignment. A party with O-Chul, Roy and Belkar is going to disband in the time you can say "dysfunctional dynamics".

Laurentio

[Niknokitueu]

I do fear, as others have suggested, that O'Chul may be being set up in order to be sacrificed. (I hope he manages to convert the Mitd beforehand if this is so.)

This is my greatest fear for O-Chul. Far too easy to have some statement like
MitD: "Mr Stiffly is dead?"
Xykon: "Yeah, I was getting bored, so I killed him."
MitD: "You killed Mr Stiffly?"
Xykon: "Yeah, what is it to you?"
MitD: "Mr Stiffly was my friend. My only friend. I am not happy!"
Xykon: "Ohshi.."
<< Stomp >>

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[Hesquidor]

Not a dwarf, not a cleric...Why would anyone in the group be getting replaced anyway? :smallconfused:

Because Durkon is going to return to the dwarven land "posthumously".

And Origins Spoilers
And the reason Thor's High Priest kicked Durkon out of the Dwarven lands is because he was told by Odin's High Priest "when he next returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all".

Thus leading to my very own epileptic tree - which has probably been planted before
That at some point to fulfill both prophecies, Durkon will be turned undead. Thus the team will need a replacement - at least until he gets resurrected

However I do not believe that O-Chul is going to be a replacement for any OotS member. I think it's far more likely he is going to be sacrificed. But if turns out he is going to be a continuing recurring character, who is going to join the order for some time, I can see him being a temporary replacement for Durkon.

[Eric]

Roy doesn't have a player, Roy is a person and OOTS is a campaign setting, but there is no D&D game actually happening and no player directing Roy's actions, at least according to Rich.

Or. possibly more succinctly: ROY is Roy's player.

Roy knows it's a game, but the game IS how life works there. There's no player playing Roy in a game, it's Roy playing the game that is his life.

[Eric]

I agree with those above who believe that all signs point to Roy's eventual return. The Giant will return Roy in his own sweet and fitting time

Alternatively, ROY could come back as a lich. Or Poltergeist or similar high level undead.

And whup Xykon's ass with his undead sword (direct from Grandad).

[BooTheHamster]

I have a problem with the theory that O-Chul could replace Roy as OoTS leader considering his Paladin code of ethics, especially with Belkar in the party. If Belkar were to be killed, then maybe, but even then I doubt the rest of the party would see O-Chul the same way they saw Roy. Roy seems to have an innate rapport with the rest of the characters which I doubt O-Chul could match, and despite being a really badass Paladin and one of my favorite characters, he is still much too serious to lead such a dysfunctional band. I could certainly see him reforming and leading the Sapphire Guard, however.

[Roderick_BR]

Nah. O-Chul is pretty much having a solo story-arch by now. The comic is not currently focused into the party.

[ideasmith]

Spoilered for your convenience.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe Roy just isn't coming back and O-Chul is, essentially, a replacement?

Seriously - think about it. Roy's been gone a very long time now (realtime-wise.) Over 100 strips now.

Meanwhile, O-Chul is getting a LOT of character development. Possibly gaining levels.

They both fill a very similar role, they're both easily intelligent enough to lead the party, and if necessary probably both capable of taking Belkar out, thus are (probably) able to exert some control over him.

Granted, the rest of the Order will do everything they possibly can to ressurect Roy - but how long has it been? What kind of massively powerful ressurection spell will they need? How much in spell components will this take to cast? Does the Order, in fact, have that kind of money/resources, noting that one half is essentially on the run from a hobgoblin army and the other half has been stranded at sea for however long?

Yes, chances are Roy will come back at some point. But even if he does... there's a good chance it won't be for a very, very long time.

Anyone?

It would make more sense for O-Chul to be a replacement for Belkar.

[David Argall]

We had the same thing with Hinjo. He's got fans. But these are Azure City characters and will vanish from the story soon, likely about strip 670 when the current book ends and the party moves on to the next gate.

[Charles Phipps]

Actually, I gave up the idea Roy wasn't coming back awhile ago.

However, I also take a personal amount of satisfaction to how long Roy was gone. While I'm certain that my theory he was gone for good is incorrect, I do think that none of my VERY frequent posting detractors never expected him to stay dead this long OOC either.

[MReav]

What's next... O-Chul as a replacement for Yik-Yik and Yok-Yok... mind controlled of course.

[Teatime]

Hey guys (first post here. Go me.)

Just thought it might be interesting to point out that, in comic #403, when Roy and O-Chul meet for the first time, Roy says to him, "we've never met before, and yet I feel an odd spiritual kinship..."

I'm sure it was just meant as a punchline, as they're both straight-men having to deal with their zany associates, but still found it interesting in the context of this thread. :smalltongue:

[T-O-E]

Because Durkon is going to return to the dwarven land "posthumously".

Another possible conclusion.

Speculation.

The prophecy is quite vague, he may die after the gates business has been sorted out. Maybe learning to love the human lands, choosing to stay there instead of going back to his birthplace. After dying (of old age) he's returned to his ancestral tomb. [/Naive Happy Ending]

Eh, let's face it, he's going to get his soul unmade, all the fat drawves get thier souls unmade...[/Cynical And Bitter Ending]

[David Argall]

most likely speculation in my view

Durkon dies, and is raised. He and the party then head to dwarven lands and the final gate where there is quite a bit of damage done to dwarven lands.

[Thagorn]

I don't think O-chul has the right capabilities of Roy. Sure he has some patience as shown with Mr. Scruffy, but that was with his liege-lord. Roy has the patience to deal with Belkar, a chaotically evil mass murderer. O-chul would execute Belkar the second he saw that he had 'escaped' prison. Not too mention that V doesn't want to be constrained in any way and Haley is a rogue. The team would have to disintegrate before O-chul could replace him.

As for Durkon
I think he will killed be Xykon in an epic battle, then either Redcloak adds him to the undead army, or Xykon imprisons him in the soul gem, then they go to conquer the dwarven lands.

[Krenn]

Considering Durkon was prepared to "raise 'im this instant" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html)
I think it's safe to say he has the necessary spell components for the spell... a healers raise dead spells would be worthless out in the field if they didn't carry around a diamond or two

hey.... speaking of that, how do you define the market value of diamonds?

If you are in a kingdom far away from diamond mines, does 1 KG of diamond =10,000 GP, but if you're in a nation with rich diamon mines, does 1 KG =1,000 GP?

If you're a slave laborer working in a diamond mine, and will be searched for diamonds whenever you leave, does 1 KG of diamonds equal 1 copper, because you'll never get a better deal before the guards take it from you?

and most importantly, if Durkon makes a straw purchase from V. of 1 tiny little diamond in exchange for 10,000 GP, does that mean that the tiny little diamond is now WORTH 10,000 GP?

even if, after the spell is complete, V buys a grain of sand from Durkon with the same 10,000 GP?

[David Argall]

hey.... speaking of that, how do you define the market value of diamonds?

D&D is not a game about supply and demand and so all prices are fixed in the rules [except where game convenient to have them changed]. This allows the players to battle orcs instead of haggle with shopkeepers. So you hunt thru the rules for a few hours trying to find where it is defined, or the DM just eyeballs it. Player actions don't change the price. It is simply said that this diamond of insignificent encumbrance is worth 10,000 gp and that diamond, also of insignificent encumbrance is worth 5000. [And if you have enough diamond to have to worry about the weight, the game is too Monty Haul.]