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Primal Fury
2008-04-19, 12:14 PM
this has been bugging me for a while, i've just picked up the Book of Rougish Luck, and i found myself looking at the Gutter Mage. at level 1, they get a spell book and the scribe scroll feat for free. now, a gutter mage can only cast up to 4th level spells without the use of other magic items, BUT he can make a scroll of a spell from a spell book that he steals. AND he can write that spell in his own spell book, effectivlely making it his. meaning we've got a guy sneak-attacking, casting shapechange, meteor swarm and all this other crazy stuff.

so... what??? am i reading wrong? or is this just some bull? :smallconfused:

Flickerdart
2008-04-19, 12:21 PM
Arcane Tricksters can do much the same thing, except they get actual spell progression. 3 levels of Rogue and 5 of Wizard qualify for the class, and then it's full Sneak Attack and spellcasting progression, plus perks like Ranged Ledgermaine. A simple Practiced Caster feat removes the caster level problem, and 3 levels of lost progression still allow for 2 9th-level spells, and he can still scribe them to his heart's content.

Also, Tenser's Transformation + Sneak Attack FTW.

UglyPanda
2008-04-19, 12:26 PM
Is it a class that can cast spells from any level so long as it has it in its spellbook? That's the limit to how much it can cast? Or are you saying that it can make scrolls from stolen spellbooks?

A wizard can only scribe scrolls it's capable of casting. If the gutter mage has the same spellbook mechanics as a wizard, it's incapable of doing what you're saying.

If you're saying that it can make scrolls from stolen spellbooks, then scrolls take time and cost xp & money. Unless you have that quill that scribes scrolls for you, you're not going to make that many scrolls per encounter.

Since it's a third-party-book, I need to know more information before I can make a judgement on the content.

Primal Fury
2008-04-19, 12:31 PM
sorry, um... he can steal spellbooks, make them his, and he can create a spell of any scroll thats in his spell book. AH! and the spells do NOT need to be part of his spell list.

UserClone
2008-04-19, 01:15 PM
All it says is that gutter mages get scribe scroll as a bonus feat. The only differences are that:

A gutter mage can have spells in his spellbook (but still can't actually cast them) which don't appear on the gutter mage spell list.
A gutter mage can then use the spells not on his list to scribe scrolls, which can then be used normally.
It says nothing about the ability to either scribe scrolls of higher than 4th level.
In conclusion, I'd have to say, nifty, but not broken.

Edit: depending on how you read it, actually...it seems you can use those scrolls without a UMD check, so there is some potential for power creep there, but it still is kept in check by the fact that they didn't include the ability to scribe scrolls of a higher level spell than you are able to cast.
Edit2: Ooh, shiny! Apparently, you can read any arcane scroll, even those not created by you! Although, it's not clear on whether that means you can actually use it...but that means you could use a found scroll of a 7th-level spell, as long as your Int/Cha was high enough!

Chronos
2008-04-19, 01:25 PM
Even if he can make and use scrolls of Meteor Swarm, all that's really doing is saving himself some cash. A regular rogue can also use scrolls of Meteor Swarm (thanks to Use Magic Device); he just has to buy them.

But even making the scrolls oneself, it's not a very cost-effective way to fight (9th level scrolls are expensive), and you end up wasting actions on getting out scrolls during a fight. It can be cost-effective for Artificers specifically, but they have all sorts of other tricks associated with making and using magic items.

Primal Fury
2008-04-19, 02:34 PM
hm... i see your point guys. i really hadnt considered looking at the actual cost of creating a scroll, much less actually having to use them in combat. ah well, thanks for the information. :smallsmile: