How many girls play

[mikoto]

My girlfriend was wondering, what percentage of D&Ders are girls.

[The Cats]

Girl? Where?

(I kid, I kid)

[EvilElitest]

My girlfriend was wondering, what percentage of D&Ders are girls.

3 girls play D&D, however they run every single person on the forums who is female. They just htat cool
from
EE

[Saihyol]

Not enough



- and because I have to write 10 words or more I'm adding this...

[TehJhu]

None. Anyone who claims they are a girl and plays is a liar.

Its like videogames.

[Lord Tataraus]

My girlfriend was wondering, what percentage of D&Ders are girls.

I'd throw out the guess of about 20-30% But really why does it matter? If your truly interested then play, percentages overall don't matter, the only thing that matters is the percentage of your group. I know some groups are all or mostly girls while others are all or most guys.

[mikoto]

I'd throw out the guess of about 20-30% But really why does it matter? If your truly interested then play, percentages overall don't matter, the only thing that matters is the percentage of your group. I know some groups are all or mostly girls while others are all or most guys.
Its more curiosity than anything.

[Citizen Jenkins]

It just depends on your location. Where I live girls are about 40% of the gaming population but I know towns where there are no female RPers. It seems that things are getting better, especially with WOW and other "gateway" games being so popular, but I doubt there are many places in the states where things are 50-50.

[Eldariel]

Stupidity aside, in our playgroup of ~10, we had 3 girls. Extrapolation wouldn't of course be accurate, but I think that's not a bad estimate really; 30% sounds about right. Of course, most of them are girlfriends of some of the players rather than mere acquaintances.

[Pirate_King]

Every game I've played has had at least one girl in it, two of them have been girlfriends of the DM, (same guy, different girls, the one he no longer dates still plays with the group). Both my sisters and one of their friends played in a campaign I was in once, and one of my current campaigns of 7 has 3 girls, one is the DM.

[drengnikrafe]

I once was part of a PvP campaign with 12 people. None were girls.
I was also once part of a regular campaign with 12 people (only 60% were the same people from the other campaign). Still no girls.

There are only 2 girls in my entire neighborhood and surrounding area who are known to play D&D at all (and only one that goes to my school).

That greatly depresses me.

[Da King]

Well lets see... I know one girl who plays D&D and.... that's it. I'm going to guess about 5%

[Bag_of_Holding]

I think it's around 5-10% of the whole gaming population. If you say DMing, then it gets much, much lower...



p.s. Personally, I know of at least 7... *girls* who play D&D.

[Collin152]

Not many.

All the better for me.

[Kurald Galain]

I think the answer is "more than there used to be".

I know five girl DMs around here, even...

[TheCountAlucard]

There's only one girl in my gaming group, but I know a few who play D&D.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

No idea on the exact number, there has almost always been at least one female in the games I've played. The Rogue and Druid classes seemed to be the popular picks for younger female players, whereas darker themes were popular with the older ones. The Asperi Necromancer stands out the most. :smallconfused:

[Rutee]

Um.. 25%? 10%? 5? There's literally no way to know for sure, I'm afraid.

[Behold_the_Void]

I know quite a few. Many seem to be more interested in the LARPs though.

[Collin152]

Let us call for a grande assembly of gamers.
We shall line them up and number them off.

[Rutee]

I hope you're not planning to use your sig as reference.

[EvilElitest]

Let us call for a grande assembly of gamers.
We shall line them up and number them off.

seconded


I find it weird that i know more girls who play than boys in person


and rutee, thank you for ruining my mind, i was planning to use that
from
EE

[Collin152]

I hope you're not planning to use your sig as reference.

Be glad that the mental variety is all I ever have in store for women.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I tend to dislike most LARPing females. There are a few who's company I can stand, but the rest seem to be there simply to exploit the fact that they have some measure of power over the nervous/lonely males around them. However, when they aren't the sort that offends me, they are an absolute blast to be around. Keep in mind, my only experience with LARP is in the Cam. I hear tell that White Wolf is not exactly the best first impression one can get of LARPing.

[Fhaolan]

The gaming groups I deal with are about 50% female if not more.

Game Group 1: 3 females, 3 males
Game Group 2: 4 females, 3 males
Game Group 3: 3 females, 2 males

[Rutee]

I tend to dislike most LARPing females. There are a few who's company I can stand, but the rest seem to be there simply to exploit the fact that they have some measure of power over the nervous/lonely males around them. However, when they aren't the sort that offends me, they are an absolute blast to be around. Keep in mind, my only experience with LARP is in the Cam. I hear tell that White Wolf is not exactly the best first impression one can get of LARPing.

I have heard the opposite, but that was from a WW player. But I hate women who do that, period, not just LARPers. Seriously, it's just plain disrespectful of people in general >.<


Be glad that the mental variety is all I ever have in store for women.
Silly.

[Collin152]

Silly.

Ummm...
Sure, let's go with that.
Now, seriously, let's line up teh peoplez for the mindraping counting.

[Gorbash]

True question is how many girl play GOOD? None with whom I have played... And that is two. For 5 years of playing DnD.
Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD, so in my gaming group we tend to avoid them. And the absolute worst thing a DM can do is to bring his girlfriend to play. I guarantee she won't be in any danger. EVER.

[EvilElitest]

Ummm...
Sure, let's go with that.
Now, seriously, let's line up teh peoplez for the mindraping counting.

Loaded in trains as we speak
from
EE

[Rutee]

Ummm...
Sure, let's go with that.
Now, seriously, let's line up teh peoplez for the mindraping counting.

*Baps with dimensional hammer.*


Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD,
What 'sophisticated parts'? It's a hack n' slash system. It's good at what it does, but it's a semi-common trend for women to be less interested in that kind of thing anyway.

[MrEdwardNigma]

It just depends on your location. Where I live girls are about 40% of the gaming population but I know towns where there are no female RPers. It seems that things are getting better, especially with WOW and other "gateway" games being so popular, but I doubt there are many places in the states where things are 50-50.

I think I'm moving where you live. :smallamused:

[EvilElitest]

*Baps with dimensional hammer.*

Hey no using anime tropes on this thread



What 'sophisticated parts'? It's a hack n' slash system. It's good at what it does, but it's a semi-common trend for women to be less interested in that kind of thing anyway.
D&D isn't totally hack and slash actually, through it shares traits
from
EE

[DraPrime]

I don't know a single gamer girl, and have never met one. I know girls that like video games, girls that enjoy comic books, but none that actually play DnD or any other RPGs.

[Collin152]

Hey no using anime tropes on this thread


Indeed.
Especially on me.
My life could not be further from Anime.
If you start making quotes form HMS Pinafore, We'll talk.

[EvilElitest]

Indeed.
Especially on me.
My life could not be further from Anime.
If you start making quotes form HMS Pinafore, We'll talk.

Sure
insert quote here
from
EE

[Gorbash]

What 'sophisticated parts'? It's a hack n' slash system. It's good at what it does, but it's a semi-common trend for women to be less interested in that kind of thing anyway.

Optimized builds, difficult rules (grapple, etc), special actions, etc etc... For example this girl I used to play with (DM's gf) played a blaster sorcerer with no prestige class, feats chosen by the DM, and cast only scorching rays and fireballs. RPing non-existant. A horrible, horrible experience. This is the worst example, true, but the others aren't that good either. It's like they want to do bunch of stuff with their charactets, but have no idea how to do it and lack the will to find out how to do it. This is only from my experience (and from what I hear from other people), I would be glad if it's otherwise, but I'm afraid it isn't. Sure, you can call my gaming group a bunch of elitist snobs (which, in fact... we are) who expect much of all the players, but in our community this is how things are.

[Rutee]

I would need to consider you 'elite' before considering you 'elitist', but no. The only real crime there that I can see is not roleplaying, from my perspective. Not optimizing in a group of optimizers is a flaw, but it's not a failure to 'grasp the sophisticated parts' (Btw: Most people consider the Grappling Rules incomprehensible. At least here). Just a different prioritization, on its own. Sounds more like the girl got shoehorned into showing up by the GM in the first place, and wasn't that interested in it. It's not that uncommon for couples to do that to each other.



My life could not be further from Anime.
If you start making quotes form HMS Pinafore, We'll talk.

On the other hand, you recognize it. :P

[Matthew]

What 'sophisticated parts'? It's a hack n' slash system. It's good at what it does, but it's a semi-common trend for women to be less interested in that kind of thing anyway.

I was going to say exactly the same thing. The answer appears to be 'the most boring parts'.

Anyway, most of the girls I have ever gamed with have tended to be the girlfriends or relations of either myself or my friends. That's not really a surprise, since I only tend to play RPGs with my friends, the majority of whom are male.

I think probably one in ten of our University Games Society members were female.

[Lord Tataraus]

In my experience we've had two girls try out our group. Firstly, I must admit that some members of my group cause embarrassment to me on such occasions. Needless to say, neither girl stayed long. The reason I think is that we play too hack-n-slash and not enough RP and I only have so much power as DM to RP more. However, it seems that while at college one of my friends at home has a girlfriend who is a LotR fanatic and I was planning a LotR-based campaign for the summer, I am very excited because no one else is as much of a fanatic than me in my group pulse we might have a girl in the group to hopefully help restrain the normal crudeness.

[EvilElitest]

I would need to consider you 'elite' before considering you 'elitist', but no. The only real crime there that I can see is not roleplaying, from my perspective. Not optimizing in a group of optimizers is a flaw, but it's not a failure to 'grasp the sophisticated parts' (Btw: Most people consider the Grappling Rules incomprehensible. At least here). Just a different prioritization, on its own. Sounds more like the girl got shoehorned into showing up by the GM in the first place, and wasn't that interested in it. It's not that uncommon for couples to do that to each other.

actually elite isn't difined by you actually but by the elite
from
EE

[Hadrian_Emrys]

They cover the whole field as far as I've seen.
There's the one who almost ALWAYS plays a kenderesque halfling rogue.
The one who prefers playing a caring yet cowerly druid.
The powergamer who loved melee characters (this includes rogue and druid).
The gal who loved horses, and got the DM to homebrew her the Asperi as a playable race.
The gal who was a gleefully "adult" player, had a think for playing tiefling barbarians and worshipping Sharr.
Heck, there was one who would only play as males with HIGH Cha.

They come in all colors, some good at rp, some good at the mechanics, and some that were just good period. Females are people too, remember? :smalltongue:


As for the response to my LARP females psuedorant: Yeah, I know it happens in general, I don't like it outside of the game either. However, I just don't really care because it's between the two people involved. When it comes to a game, a whole group of people are sucked into the drama who don't even have anything to do with the pair causing the problem.

[Gorbash]

I would need to consider you 'elite' before considering you 'elitist', but no. The only real crime there that I can see is not roleplaying, from my perspective. Not optimizing in a group of optimizers is a flaw, but it's not a failure to 'grasp the sophisticated parts' (Btw: Most people consider the Grappling Rules incomprehensible. At least here). Just a different prioritization, on its own. Sounds more like the girl got shoehorned into showing up by the GM in the first place, and wasn't that interested in it. It's not that uncommon for couples to do that to each other.

Elite, ok. Yes, roleplaying is the worst flaw, but what makes things even worse is total lack of understanding of rules AND complete lack of trying to learn them. That's the worst part, I think. And it's not just grappling. You see, she knows a few things her character can do (scorching ray and fireball like I said), and doesn't aspire to learn to do anything else. How hard can it be to check out PHB for some other spells, or sorcerer class features, possible prestige classes, feats etc. That's the part I don't like about ALL the girls I've played with, talked about it, or from other people's experiences.


actually elite isn't difined by you actually but by the elite

But, we are the elite.

[Collin152]

On the other hand, you recognize it. :P

Does not a priest recognize sin?

[Renegade Paladin]

Not enough



- and because I have to write 10 words or more I'm adding this...
You know, if you'd just put a period at the end of the sentence you wouldn't have to do that last bit. :smallamused:

[EvilElitest]

Does not a priest recognize sin?

Does not hte gamer recongnize F.A.T.A.L.
from
EE

[Rutee]

Except that you're talking about all the crunching a lot of players (Both male and female) can't be bothered with. Especially with PrCs (do note that there are no PrCs in the PHB..) Again, she sounds like she was dragged up by the GM. Couples are wont to get each other to do crap they don't care about.

And no, you're not, Gorbash. Not because you roleplay and optimize.


Does not a priest recognize sin?
More aptly, "don't classical symphony directors recognize Rock?"

[EvilElitest]

But, we are the elite.

oh certainly, only we can recongize our own kind. Through i don't agree wit your all your statements
from
EE

[Collin152]

oh certainly, only we can recongize our own kind. Through i don't agree wit your all your statements
from
EE

In a Kryptonian way where your X-ray vision lets you see their costume under their clothes, or in a gay way, where you just know?

[EvilElitest]

In a Kryptonian way where your X-ray vision lets you see their costume under their clothes, or in a gay way, where you just know?

More like the Highlander way. Your warned before hand
from
EE

[Gorbash]

Except that you're talking about all the crunching a lot of players (Both male and female) can't be bothered with. Especially with PrCs (do note that there are no PrCs in the PHB..) Again, she sounds like she was dragged up by the GM. Couples are wont to get each other to do crap they don't care about.

Except she actually enjoys the part when she gets to say: "I cast fireball" and rolls a bunch of dice. When there's social interaction, tactical planning etc, she just doesn't care. Ok, I meant that she doesn't even bother to see if there's a good prestige class in core books.


oh certainly, only we can recongize our own kind. Through i don't agree wit your all your statements

Please say which ones. I do enjoy discussions. (In english, especially, it helps me prepare for my CPE)

[Collin152]

More like the Highlander way. Your warned before hand
from
EE

I'm dreadfuly unfamilliar with Highlander.
Just say "the gay way". I'll understand it oh so much easier.

[EvilElitest]

Please say which ones. I do enjoy discussions. (In english, especially, it helps me prepare for my CPE)

Just generally using that one person (who i admit sounds pretty bad) isn't really a very good example of girls in general. I'm not so much against your options so much as the generalization

I"m more than willing to dicuss generally anything,
What country are you from by the way?
from
EE

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Gaydar xray vision or Highlander spidey sense... it all leads to crossing swords. :smalltongue:

Still, some of this subject feels a touch off. Like declaring that all rp males are devil worshipping nerds with no social life outside of our monthly blood communion...













That's only most of us dangit! :smallfurious:

[EvilElitest]

I'm dreadfuly unfamilliar with Highlander.
Just say "the gay way". I'll understand it oh so much easier.

no. All i have to say


also, which of use isn't a demon worshping sadist? Do we have trators in our ranks?
from
EE

[Rutee]

Except she actually enjoys the part when she gets to say: "I cast fireball" and rolls a bunch of dice. When there's social interaction, tactical planning etc, she just doesn't care. Ok, I meant that she doesn't even bother to see if there's a good prestige class in core books.

So she's interested in exactly one thing, and it's a minor aspect of the game, and this makes you certain that she'd be there without the GM pressing her.

Either way, her play preferences say very little for women as a whole. Kinda like how I can't extrapolate the preferences of men from one man.

[Gorbash]

Just generally using that one person (who i admit sounds pretty bad) isn't really a very good example of girls in general. I'm not so much against your options so much as the generalization

I'm more than willing to dicuss generally anything,
What country are you from by the way?
from
EE

Well, like I said, she was absolutely the worst example, but the other one with whom I played with wasn't much better. And the others of whom I heard of from other people, were the same. So, I'm not saying that girls who are on par with guys concerning rules crunching, optimizing builds etc etc don't exist, I'm just saying that they are VERY VERY rare, and that I never heard of one.

Serbia. It says so under my avatar.


Either way, her play preferences say very little for women as a whole.

Yes, but she represents 50% of women with whom I have played. Judging by my experiences, this is how things are, I wasn't saying that this is how you or other women play...

[Collin152]

also, which of use isn't a demon worshping sadist? Do we have trators in our ranks?
from
EE

Calm yourself, man!
I worship nothing!
I acknowledge and fear the powers of Devils, but my magic is not wrought by their works!
Just consult my book, Dictionairre Infernal for more information on the vile beats that I definatley do not make sacrifice to.

[SurlySeraph]

*Peers in*

I have no idea about the numbers of girls who play, but I have work to do here.

*Wearily lifts his smiting-axe and trots off in Collin152's general direction*

[Saihyol]

You know, if you'd just put a period at the end of the sentence you wouldn't have to do that last bit. :smallamused:

I was annoyed I had to say more and it made me :smallsmile:

Also Gorbash I think there is some reaction here to the generalization you're making from a few examples. Most of the women I have played with (6-8) have been better RPers than the men I have played with (50+), though one was very similar to what you're describing. I've also seen more of my guy players deliberately try to break the game with some combination of poorly worded rules:

'Congratulations Ian that 1st level combination now means you have the ability to re-write the universe as you see fit. The campaign is over and oh all of *looks at watch* five minutes into the game you've ruined everyone's night.'

This doesn't represent all men I've gamed with, but definitely too many of them.

[Collin152]

*Peers in*

I have no idea about the numbers of girls who play, but I have work to do here.

*Wearily lifts his smiting-axe and trots off in Collin152's general direction*

Sigged.




More aptly, "don't classical symphony directors recognize Rock?"

I'm sorry, the correct response was
"Frollo sought to purge the world of vice and sin, and he found corruption everywhere except within"

[Krrth]

Well, if it helps we've had a few females in our group, but the only one who still manages to play much is my wife. Mostly, the ones in my area prefer WW.

[kjones]

I've known about ten female gamers or so, in my time, out of several dozen total... 20-30% seems reasonable. Let's count:

(For the record, I am male. All these games except the last were run by me.)

1st gaming group: Six males, but one player was eventually replaced by a girl towards the end of the campaign.

2nd gaming group: Three males, three females.

3rd gaming group: Four males, two females.

4th gaming group: One female, five males.

5th gaming group: One female, three males (one of them is me), and a female GM.

I don't want to stereotype - I've had good and bad female players, and good and bad male players. I've had players of both genders who were excellent players, and those who couldn't be bothered to learn the rules. I've had players of both genders who were most interested in RP, and those who were most interested in combat. (One female player had a character whose favorite action during combat was to bull-rush enemies into walls; she accepted my brutal, gruesome descriptions of the results with glee.)

I think the biggest difference is that female players are less likely to delve into rules minutae - I've never met a female munchkin, or one who was really interested in min/maxing. I'm sure they exist; I just think they're less prevalent. WIthout generalizing, I think this is because women tend to be saner, healthier creatures than we are. :smalltongue:

[Gorbash]

I was annoyed I had to say more and it made me :smallsmile:

Also Gorbash I think there is some reaction here to the generalization you're making from a few examples. Most of the women I have played with (6-8) have been better RPers than the men I have played with (50+), though one was very similar to what you're describing. I've also seen more of my guy players deliberately try to break the game with some combination of poorly worded rules:

'Congratulations Ian that 1st level combination now means you have the ability to re-write the universe as you see fit. The campaign is over and oh all of *looks at watch* five minutes into the game you've ruined everyone's night.'

This doesn't represent all men I've gamed with, but definitely too many of them.

Where did I say that by 'understanding of the rules' I meant 'ridiculous combinations that break the game' ? And to such things, as a DM, you can just say 'no'. You can't just say 'know the rules' and problems will go away.

And of course I will generalize from few examples, when there are few of them to begin with!

[EvilElitest]

Well, like I said, she was absolutely the worst example, but the other one with whom I played with wasn't much better. And the others of whom I heard of from other people, were the same. So, I'm not saying that girls who are on par with guys concerning rules crunching, optimizing builds etc etc don't exist, I'm just saying that they are VERY VERY rare, and that I never heard of one.

here is the thing however, it seems to just been a personal experience. Which just mean that said player is a bastard


Serbia. It says so under my avatar.

oh sorry didn't see, through ironically i have a test on Serbia in a few days a(only on WWI)



Yes, but she represents 50% of women with whom I have played. Judging by my experiences, this is how things are, I wasn't saying that this is how you or other women play...
Meh, i think you just have a bad personal experience.

Collin, your forgiven this time, but big brother is watching you
from
EE

[Collin152]

Collin, your forgiven this time, but big brother is watching you
from
EE

Forgiven of what, precisely?

If you please.

[SilverClawShift]

True question is how many girl play GOOD? None with whom I have played... And that is two. For 5 years of playing DnD.
Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD, so in my gaming group we tend to avoid them. And the absolute worst thing a DM can do is to bring his girlfriend to play. I guarantee she won't be in any danger. EVER.

:smallconfused:

I'm just saying, your sample group is two girls, and you feel you can safely declare girls as being bad roleplayers? Or bad hack n slashers. Or whichever it is you're worried about.

[EvilElitest]

Forgiven of what, precisely?

If you please.

For not worshiping our demon masters
from
EE

[Collin152]

For not worshiping our demon masters
from
EE

Heil Beelzebub,
Heil Lillith,
Heil Asmodeous,
Heil Mephistopheles.

[EvilElitest]

Heil Beelzebub,
Heil Lillith,
Heil Asmodeous,
Heil Mephistopheles.
Good boy

heil Tallyrand
from
EE

[Myatar_Panwar]

I have unfortunately never met a serious gaming girl. D&D, videogames, or otherwise. And don't get me wrong, I'VE LOOKED! Every geeky seeming girl ive met only appears to be interested in anime, and.... err... thats it. I would try to talk about video games or D&D with them, but they are just not interested, some have even mocked me for for playing D&D, one saying something like "only loners play D&D" (seriously, I was like WTF, its a bloody GROUP GAME). Maybe its just that they don't understand the game, and would enjoy it if they would bother to learn it and not go off of the stereotype. Note that I am only in high school, but I would think that it would be easier to find gaming chicks in a High school!

Now, I once played D&D in a gaming-ish club, and in the first day we had 2 girls there. One of which never returned after the first day, the second of which was dating someone else who was in the club (Note, this guy in not in our personal gaming group), and it was quite obvious that she was only there because her boyfriend was.

:smallfrown:

[Sleet]

Three of the seven members of my gaming group are women.

[Ravyn]

I play in two to three different games a week (not counting pbps), contribute heavily to a nascent game design company, am at a 2.5-year campaign the longest-running GM in my primary game group, and am generally seen as my group's best source, whether I'm running or not, for magic item design.

At my high school, I was The One With the Books for two groups, one of which was slightly less than 50% female, one of which was just over; my first college group was 66% female, and most of them were better gamers than half of the guys I've RP'd with face to face in the last two years. There, you've heard from a good girl gamer who can attest to the existence of six more like her.

It's highly likely, Gorbash, that you've fallen into a self-fulfilling prophecy; I've noticed the more people tend to think girls can't play, the less likely they are to find the ones who can and should. (Those of us who already enjoy the game actively avoid such people, as they tend to mar the experience with their condescending attitudes.)


Myatar: I suggest playing up the collaborative fiction aspect; it was how I recruited half of the high school players.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Wow. I really guess I should feel worry for you lot who've been given crap by fems for being a gamer. Hell, I used to live with a family that played Halo together after dinner. 3v3 lan was the good ol days.

[Saihyol]

Where did I say that by 'understanding of the rules' I meant 'ridiculous combinations that break the game' ? And to such things, as a DM, you can just say 'no'. You can't just say 'know the rules' and problems will go away.

I didn't say you had said this it was an example of how bad some of the male players I have played with were, but not all men are like this and of course as GM I said no.


And of course I will generalize from few examples, when there are few of them to begin with!

To be fair I went back over your posts and noticed that you actually (mostly) clearly state that you are referring to the girls you have played with or that your friends have played with. Unfortunately (and this may be a language thing) this quote from your first post is ambiguous and could be referring to the specific people (who you now avoid) or to women in general:


Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD, so in my gaming group we tend to avoid them.

...and there have been a few since that can be (and have been) read as describing women everywhere.

If you're generalising about the women you and your friends have played with - fair enough.

If about all women then surely you can see the flaw in generalising about c.50% of the population based off so few experiences?

My apologies if I have mis-read what you wrote.

[AslanCross]

Of the six people who were originally part of my group, four are girls. A second group I used to DM had three out of six.

In my experience they tend to make more interesting characters, and their grasp of character optimization varies widely.

[Gorbash]

oh sorry didn't see, through ironically i have a test on Serbia in a few days a(only on WWI)

Damn, even I'm not sure what our part was in that war (except to get beaten horribly, as usual), although I'm pretty sure it has something to do with some retreat over some mountains and with Greeks helping us at some point. Our modern history sucks.


I'm just saying, your sample group is two girls, and you feel you can safely declare girls as being bad roleplayers? Or bad hack n slashers. Or whichever it is you're worried about.

Man, do I hate to repeat myself... Like I said, at least two times, my opinion is based on playing with 2 girls, and from numerous experiences from other people I know. Good enough for me.


I have unfortunately never met a serious gaming girl. D&D, videogames, or otherwise. And don't get me wrong, I'VE LOOKED! Every geeky seeming girl ive met only appears to be interested in anime, and.... err... thats it.

QFT. Precisely that. There are no seriously intrested girls, only mildly. And I don't like that. It's a shame really, but it's the reality.


I play in two to three different games a week (not counting pbps), contribute heavily to a nascent game design company, am at a 2.5-year campaign the longest-running GM in my primary game group, and am generally seen as my group's best source, whether I'm running or not, for magic item design.

I'm glad there are girls like you, but understand that you're like one in a million. If you look closely in threads concerning rules, you'll notice the overwhelming presence of Y chromosome. All that is proof that most girls are only moderately intrested in DnD, and are not very serious about it.



To be fair I went back over your posts and noticed that you actually (mostly) clearly state that you are referring to the girls you have played with or that your friends have played with. Unfortunately (and this may be a language thing) this quote from your first post is ambiguous and could be referring to the specific people (who you now avoid) or to women in general

I was refering to women in general.


If you're generalising about the women you and your friends have played with - fair enough.

Since I have no other experience on which I could base my opinion, this is the only way. How can I say there are girls who are excellent players, when I never met nor heard of one? That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means I don't know of one. And in our gaming community almost all of people are connected somehow, and if there was such I girl, I most definelty would have known.

[AslanCross]

QFT. Precisely that. There are no seriously intrested girls, only mildly. And I don't like that. It's a shame really, but it's the reality.


While there is a sore lack of gamer girls in the world, four of my six original players are female and if anything they're more serious about the roleplaying aspect of the game than the optimization part. (Though like I said earlier, some of them actually do optimize effectively too.) They're also more punctual and participative than the males.

Our campaign has lasted for a year and is continuing until next year until my players (students) graduate. That's hardly a mild and passing interest.

[Agamid]

The girls used to out-number the guys in my role-play group.
there was me, other nikky (we are both called nikky, just different spelling), and sarah v david and sam.
But then michael joined, sarah and david left and then ben joined too, so we're out-numbered again. I know heaps of girls who game though, and most groups i've been in in the past have been mainly made up of girls (or at least a 50-50 split). But then, most goths are just nerds who wear black and most of the people i know are or were goths (or medieval re-enactors).

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The girls used to out-number the guys in my role-play group.
there was me, other nikky (we are both called nikky, just different spelling), and sarah v david and sam.
But then michael joined, sarah and david left and then ben joined too, so we're out-numbered again. I know heaps of girls who game though, and most groups i've been in in the past have been mainly made up of girls (or at least a 50-50 split). But then, most goths are just nerds who wear black and most of the people i know are or were goths (or medieval re-enactors).

Tosses up the horns for the SCA.

[Saihyol]

Since I have no other experience on which I could base my opinion, this is the only way. How can I say there are girls who are excellent players, when I never met nor heard of one? That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means I don't know of one. And in our gaming community almost all of people are connected somehow, and if there was such I girl, I most definelty would have known.

Apology withdrawn.

You've judged 3bn people based on 10-20 (I'm being generous) examples - only two of which you have experienced first hand.

This is the equivalent of me saying I've only seen two lions in the zoo, this is also the only place my friends have seen lions - therefore all lions must live in zoos.

[EvilElitest]

Damn, even I'm not sure what our part was in that war (except to get beaten horribly, as usual), although I'm pretty sure it has something to do with some retreat over some mountains and with Greeks helping us at some point. Our modern history sucks.

Actually, you started it. Or a group did. The Black Hand assassinated the Arch Duke of Austria which led to Austria attacking Serbia, germany assisting Austria-Hungry, Russia Helping Serbia, France helping Russia, Germany attacking belgium, Britain aiding France, Bulgaria attacking Serbia, Albania aiding Serbia, Italy attacking Austria, Japan attacking Germany, America attacking German, Ottoman Empire attacking Britain, and Soviets taking over Russia. Serbia won however and formed Yugoslavia. And before i pull a godwin i'm going to stop going into history now
from
EE

[Gorbash Kazdar]

I have created a graph to model my own experience regarding this question.
http://www.gorbashkazdar.com/playerpopgraph.jpg
Note that the upper limit (Actual Total Number of Females in Given Player Population) tends to increase with the maturity level of the total player population. The final actual total set by this upper bound is subject to numerous particular factors that do not always affect the apparent proportion curve (including, but not limited to, stigma attached to gaming by non-gaming population and peer group, opportunities to interaction between different genders in social scenarios both romantic and non-romantic in nature, disparity in income between genders, and likelihood of exposure to related to hobbies differentiated by gender). Observation indicates that stigma attached to gaming by peer group tends to be higher for females, decreasing with maturity of potential player; additionally, willingness to part with peer group on given issue increases at the same time.

The randomly selected player's gender does not matter, though for a male player the starting point of the curve tends to be lower, and the steepness of the curve tends to be less, when compared to a female player. Graph assumes that maturity level of viewpoint player increases in line with average maturity level of population.

Numerous factors that can affect this curve are not accounted for. Graph represents an average, actual experience by individual unique player can vary greatly.

[EvilElitest]

wait, we are getting more mature?
from
EE

[Danzaver]

Tosses up the horns for the SCA.

Agamid's brother here.
We're not part of the SCA. I am sorry to say I can't take most of what they do seriously, nor can most Australian re-enactors.
We are part of a little group called the Knights of the Empire Germanica, and you won't see any high-density foam armour, padded weapons, synthetic machine stitched dresses, or heraldic crests with 'trogdor' on them with us. Having said that, the SCA are second to none when it comes to networking, and the 'foamies' only make up probably 2/3 of the SCA at best. There are some really serious and talented re-enactors among them, and yes, I know their standards do vary from county to county.

But back to the topic at hand.

As Agamid already pointed out, my game used to have more girls than guys. Now they equal exactly 50% of the players.

I can only speak of my own experiences, but girl players seem to follow the same trends as guy players. There are several particular veins of character ideas they seem to enjoy playing (or sometimes just the one), and will explore around that concept, stray away from it, but always return. Other than that, they have been as widely varied as male players in their styles.

One girl I have played with was very objective driven, and wanted tangible accomplishments like slaying the monster and dominating the enemy, in a fairly masculine fashion that would have piqued freud's interest.

Another one never liked structure and just liked exploring character ideas and interactions for fun so never stuck to table-top roleplaying.

Another one always plays goody cutesy characters who love bunny rabbits but always lets her sword do her talking.

Another one has a good flexibility of playing in different roles and situations and really gets into the games, both the roleplaying and numerical aspects of it. She would be the notable exception to the claim I read earlier that no girls really take gaming quite seriously. As many players do, she does seem to get a bit down when she feels that her character's strengths are useless in a given situation or has nothing to do, and has shown a repeated penchant for seeking revenge like a bloodhound and dishing it out, even to other party members, unhesitatingly.

Another one roleplays to get into the heads of her characters and explore fantasy worlds and seems to play jilted or unstable tragics. She has shown to not enjoy pure gaming sessions where death can lurk around every corner (e.g. Tomb of Horrors).

There you go, draw from it what you may. And before you jump to any conclusions, keep in mind that in my games I get bored by long combats, discourage party optimising, and try to make the hack and slash a minor part of the game while giving the players as total a free-roaming experience as I can, so naturally, I will tend to attract and keep a certain type of player.

It's also worth noting that none of these players were girlfriends of any of the players just sitting in, they were all there totally voluntarily and individually, and three of the five had roleplayed before. In one case, possibly more than I had. All except for one I continue to roleplay with to this day. In case you are wondering which one, the first girl I described moved up north.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I hope not EE. The graph is to show that the more mature a group, the more frequently people seem to note female players.

[EvilElitest]

I hope not EE. The graph is to show that the more mature a group, the more frequently people seem to note female players.

oh and we can't have that happen, because then other new idea might come about. Like actually cleaning up our play area, or thinking outside the box

from
EE

[Frosty]

I would guess the mroe mature the group, the mor likely females are to join the group.

[EvilElitest]

I would guess the mroe mature the group, the mor likely females are to join the group.

possible, i hate to make the argument that boys are in any ways as mature as girls

Through i do feel happy, i have a few girls in my groups.
from
EE

[Xefas]

I've known three women in my age group (college age) to play D&D, but they were hands-down the least mature and least pleasurable people I've gamed with save for one special exception that I won't talk about.

The first would always play a giant-busted airheaded redhead whose only goal in life seemed to be having sex with everything. At first we thought she was just being ironic, but it descended quickly into offensive territory when she insisted on screwing even the animals the party came across.

The second would always say she wanted to play, but wouldn't bother to learn the rules and then complain continuously that we were being mean and weren't including her because she was a girl. She'd invariably get someone to make her a character, and then when anything happened she'd either sit there and do nothing until the situation was over and then complain that we didn't let her play, or spout random stuff that she didn't know the mechanics for so we'd have to drag out the books to look it up and calculate everything from her character's stats.

The third was okay, except that she always insisted on playing a barely-pubescent high-charisma catgirl no matter what the campaign was about and that if anything didn't go her way she'd start crying and screaming at us. Oh, and she also had the inclination to solve a lot of problems with "I strip naked and try to have sex with him". And of course, when my BBEG declined sex and instead opted to throw a lightning bolt at the party, we could hear the tears incoming.

I don't know why anyone would specifically want a girl to play over a guy. I think you should just be concerned with finding *good* players, no matter the gender.

[Reinboom]

None. Anyone who claims they are a girl and plays is a liar.

Its like videogames.

My mother is a video game nerd. We had multiple SNESs when I was growing up.
This passed on to me and all my siblings. I'm the youngest of 10, (8 living). Out of the living, 7 are female.
Only my eldest sister and 5th eldest sister out of me and all my siblings are not game nerds in some way.


True question is how many girl play GOOD? None with whom I have played... And that is two. For 5 years of playing DnD.
Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD, so in my gaming group we tend to avoid them. And the absolute worst thing a DM can do is to bring his girlfriend to play. I guarantee she won't be in any danger. EVER.

Quite a few that I'm aware of.
I would argue that I'm more well attuned to the rules than most of the players in the groups I've DMed for.

Also, on the last part, as a player in a game by Fax Celestis, I distinctly remember Fax's wife's Swordsage dying. And not coming back.
Given only two deaths that I'm aware of have occurred so far in the campaign, I think that provides a significant argument against that 'EVER' part.

[Jayngfet]

I've known three women in my age group (college age) to play D&D, but they were hands-down the least mature and least pleasurable people I've gamed with save for one special exception that I won't talk about.

The first would always play a giant-busted airheaded redhead whose only goal in life seemed to be having sex with everything. At first we thought she was just being ironic, but it descended quickly into offensive territory when she insisted on screwing even the animals the party came across.

The second would always say she wanted to play, but wouldn't bother to learn the rules and then complain continuously that we were being mean and weren't including her because she was a girl. She'd invariably get someone to make her a character, and then when anything happened she'd either sit there and do nothing until the situation was over and then complain that we didn't let her play, or spout random stuff that she didn't know the mechanics for so we'd have to drag out the books to look it up and calculate everything from her character's stats.

The third was okay, except that she always insisted on playing a barely-pubescent high-charisma catgirl no matter what the campaign was about and that if anything didn't go her way she'd start crying and screaming at us. Oh, and she also had the inclination to solve a lot of problems with "I strip naked and try to have sex with him". And of course, when my BBEG declined sex and instead opted to throw a lightning bolt at the party, we could hear the tears incoming.

I don't know why anyone would specifically want a girl to play over a guy. I think you should just be concerned with finding *good* players, no matter the gender.

woah, and why did the second want to play but not learn the rules, or even contribute, if you want a passive fantasy experience go read lord of the rings.

[Kurald Galain]

True question is how many girl play GOOD? None with whom I have played... And that is two. For 5 years of playing DnD.
Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD,

In my experience, most of them. Then again, our local playstyle tends not to focus on the so-called sophisticted rules, but on actual roleplaying; I believe that overall, girls tend to be more interested in that part.

Well, we did have a manipulative b**** player in one campaign who unsurprisingly was the DM's girlfriend, but that was at least partially caused by him being a total doormat.

[Ossian]

I only ever had 2 girls playing regularly in the group. Both are now living far away, but as far as I can remember, the days they were part of the group were memorable (yet, that could be the golden halo of good memories).

O.

[Gorbash]

Actually, you started it. Or a group did. The Black Hand assassinated the Arch Duke of Austria which led to Austria attacking Serbia, germany assisting Austria-Hungry, Russia Helping Serbia, France helping Russia, Germany attacking belgium, Britain aiding France, Bulgaria attacking Serbia, Albania aiding Serbia, Italy attacking Austria, Japan attacking Germany, America attacking German, Ottoman Empire attacking Britain, and Soviets taking over Russia. Serbia won however and formed Yugoslavia. And before i pull a godwin i'm going to stop going into history now
from
EE

Wait, wasn't Gavrilo Princip (the guy who assassinated Franz Ferdinand) a member of the group called Young/New Bosnia (I'm not sure which)? And he was, from Bosnia, not Serbia, although I'm not sure whether Bosnia was part of Serbia at that time... It was in Yugoslavia, yeah, but I think it was just one municipality of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. Or I could be wrong.


You've judged 3bn people based on 10-20 (I'm being generous) examples - only two of which you have experienced first hand.

This is the equivalent of me saying I've only seen two lions in the zoo, this is also the only place my friends have seen lions - therefore all lions must live in zoos.

Oh please, that's a ridiculous example. I'm just saying that here, in my town, I've never heard of a girl seriously playing DnD, I think I said twice that that doesn't mean they don't exist, that it just means I don't happen to know them.

[thubby]

lets put it this way, the percentage is low enough to warrant the stereotype.

[Tura]

In RL, I've always been the only girl in the group. All my groups started in college however (playing D&D in school was unheard of back then, and I think it still is) and there were few girls studying electronics at the time. I've noticed that, at least in Greece, D&D thrives* wherever people study sciences as opposed to arts. And not any kind of science, but in particular maths, physics and the like, engineering, computers. D&D belongs in a pack of interests, of sorts, that passes on from generation to generation in universities, along with science fiction, fantasy, and card games like bridge. (Video games on the other hand, no matter how rp-oriented they are, aren't limited there, and begin long before college anyway.)

In short, it's clearly a matter of college tradition. And the numbers are changing as we speak. The more girls decide to become, say, engineers instead of, say, history teachers, the more girls come in contact with D&D, and therefore the more female gamers spring up. That's just the situation in one country, though. I would assume (though I have no data whatsoever to support this, I'm just guessing here) that in places like the Scandinavian countries, where the male/female percentage in just about any occupation tends to become 50/50 (except, perhaps, orchestra conductors), a female gamer wouldn't stand out that much.

* and when I say "D&D thrives", I mean "a few people play", as opposed to "no one has heard of the damn thing - isn't it a computer game?"

[Gorbash]

In RL, I've always been the only girl in the group. All my groups started in college however (playing D&D in school was unheard of back then, and I think it still is) and there were few girls studying electronics at the time. I've noticed that, at least in Greece, D&D thrives* wherever people study sciences as opposed to arts. And not any kind of science, but in particular maths, physics and the like, engineering, computers. D&D belongs in a pack of interests, of sorts, that passes on from generation to generation in universities, along with science fiction, fantasy, and card games like bridge. (Video games on the other hand, no matter how rp-oriented they are, aren't limited there, and begin long before college anyway.)

In short, it's clearly a matter of college tradition. And the numbers are changing as we speak. The more girls decide to become, say, engineers instead of, say, history teachers, the more girls come in contact with D&D, and therefore the more female gamers spring up. That's just the situation in one country, though. I would assume (though I have no data whatsoever to support this, I'm just guessing here) that in places like the Scandinavian countries, where the male/female percentage in just about any occupation tends to become 50/50 (except, perhaps, orchestra conductors), a female gamer wouldn't stand out that much.

* and when I say "D&D thrives", I mean "a few people play", as opposed to "no one has heard of the damn thing - isn't it a computer game?"

While I can agree at some extent that D&D is played mostly by those intrested in computers and such, it is in no way related to college majors. I mean, in my group we have 3 guys who are in law school, one is in med school, and 3 of us are math/programming majors. And it has absolutely nothing to do with universities, because people usually start gaming in high school, or even earlier (I started playing warhammer when I was 12). It is just a matter of cultural preference. Everyone who enjoys Tolkien, and fantasy in general will of course come in touch with D&D, whether he studies law, economics, math etc it makes no difference (although I don't know anyone who's into arts that plays D&D, but that can be linked to the fact that I don't know many people who are into that).

So, I guess that's the situation only in your country...

[Samakain]

The generalization of this thread astounds and amuses me

Women = People :D and thus a wide variety of personalities

I've had the pleasure of DMing a group of more women than men, 4-2, players the female way. They where great players and i'd be happy to run a game with them again, one was very much a "roll" player but still had a good sense of teamwork, the others enjoyed the "role" playing interaction alot more. One, my best friend, has a unique ability of making combat effective characters that always end up hilarious additions to the group.

On the other hand i've played with a DM whose girlfriend join and offered sexual favors so she could have a pixie character that road a miniature unicorn with the stats of a dire bear :D i killed the bear, and her character, then quite the campagin. Bitch

The point is that you can pin down female players as "this" or "that" they come in all shapes and sizes, something i'm thankful for. But at least in my area theres a good 40-60 split female/male.

cheers

[Allis]

* Stands in line to be counted*

I play D&D, I DM D&D, have DM'd "wheel of time", Play computer games, read fantasy... I have NEVER let a guy make me a character, and know my rules and spells.

I do know girls who are not interested in the mechanics of the game. But hey, I also know guys who don't know how to cast a magic missile. I know girls who do not roleplay. I Know guys who roleplay terribble. Give a guy a female character and she'll be sleeping with all the major NPC's... How's that for genaraliations...

[Danzaver]

* Stands in line to be counted*

I play D&D, I DM D&D, have DM'd "wheel of time", Play computer games, read fantasy... I have NEVER let a guy make me a character, and know my rules and spells.

I do know girls who are not interested in the mechanics of the game. But hey, I also know guys who don't know how to cast a magic missile. I know girls who do not roleplay. I Know guys who roleplay terribble. Give a guy a female character and she'll be sleeping with all the major NPC's... How's that for genaraliations...

Testify. *raises the roof*

[DraPrime]

Testify. *raises the roof*

*also raises the roof*

[CabbageTheif]

i have actually played with a majority of girls

my first campaign, the party was 7 girls and 3 guys (not all at once, our party never exceeded 8. some people left and some came in the middle). my current group (again, including people that have come and gone) has been 2 girls 5 guys. what was fun about the first campaign was that the party leader (girl) and the tank (girl) were second generation; they were taught how to play 2 edition by their fathers and mothers, who were in their youth a party.

moral of the story is: any good upbringing will teach you how to game, no matter your gender.

[Tura]

So, I guess that's the situation only in your country.
Of course, that's exactly what I said. I didn't say that's what happens everywhere, now, did I? :)

[SamTheCleric]

Wait... Famale PCs -dont- sleep with every major NPC? :smallbiggrin:

We've got a couple girls in our gaming group, mostly the girlfriends and wives... and I've found they (generally) are better at coming up with elaborate stories and personalities at their character and want the mechanics to fit the story... the guys generally do the mechanics and make a story "fit".

But those are just generalizations about my local group.

[Sleet]

Of course, that's exactly what I said. I didn't say that's what happens everywhere, now, did I? :)

For another data point, I'm the only one in my game group with a science education. We have a person who studied literature, a couple of historians, a philosopher, a psychologist, and a sociologist. Three of the group are women. For what it's worth. :smallsmile:

[Saithis Bladewing]

I play, and let's be honest, with me around, who needs anyone else? :smallamused:

[Frosty]

I play, and let's be honest, with me around, who needs anyone else? :smallamused:

A girl with CONFIDENCE! *thumbs up*

[hotel_papa]

True question is how many girl play GOOD? None with whom I have played... And that is two. For 5 years of playing DnD.
Unfortunately, they don't have the keen intrest in rules and some other sophisticated parts of DnD, so in my gaming group we tend to avoid them. And the absolute worst thing a DM can do is to bring his girlfriend to play. I guarantee she won't be in any danger. EVER.

Actually, I beg to differ. I run a weekly game with my fiance as a PC, and she gets as much pain and misery as everyone else. Sometimes moreso, due to her generally miserable luck with dice.

As for the origional question, I've played with several girls, and (excluding the games I ran in Iraq) there has almost always been at least one girl present in every game I've played.

[TwoCents]

As a woman who has been gaming since 1978 (I feel old :smalleek: ), here are my observations, for what they're worth. I have only gamed in the US (or with other Americans), so none of this applies to other cultures/countries.

Female gamers divide into roughly three groups:

1) Women who like to game.

2) Women who game because their boyfriend/husband games, but otherwise would be doing something else. (This includes women who started gaming with their boyfriends and now game because of that wonderful "ring of DM control" on their left hand.*)

3) Women who game to meet/flirt with/annoy men. This includes the subset who can't seem to figure out what the difference is between a d20 and a d6.

Again, the following is based on my personal observations only, and is not meant to be a definitive description of all women gamers everywhere:

Group 1 tends to flock together and stay together. Once we find each other, we continue gaming together for years. Which means, as a general rule, that all the Group 1 women are concentrated. Hence groups with two, three, or more women in them.

Group 2 women may or may not hang out in a group with Group 1 women. Some times, and this is a real pain, a girlfriend will attend out of jealousy. She often creates the "hot chick" type of character and woe betide the boyfriend whose character is not constantly chasing the GF's character. On the other hand, some great gamers came with a boyfriend and stayed after he left.

As long as they don't act bored or put upon or -- even worse -- entitled to special treatment because they condescended to be there, most of the "hangers on" will be welcomed into the game. Otherwise they may be treated with (at best) patient understanding and pity to (at worst) contempt.

Group 1 women will not voluntarily game with a Group 3 chick unless there is some other compelling reason. Girls who game like that make us all look bad, and make it difficult for serious gamers to be taken seriously. If you game with Group 3 girls, those will probably be all the female gamers you will see. It's sort of like kudzu for your game.

HOWEVER, having said that, I have on occasion played a silly game where I was a chain-mail bikini barbarian toying with the attentions of the scholarly wizard boy. That was a deliberate break from routine and we soon went back to our regularly scheduled campaign of death and destruction.

Herewith is TwoCents' suggestion on how to meet good gamers, including of the female persuasion:

GO TO GAMING CONVENTIONS.
1) People have to pay to get in. Only real gamers will show up. There will be a surfeit of Group 1 women gamers.
2) You can learn a lot about how a player will game in a four hour session. So can she. Game well.
3) Once you meet one gamer, and make friends, you are in the door to joining that gamer's gaming group. (say that three times fast)
4) You never know, some girl may be walking by while you stand on a chair chastising your battletech players and think you're the cutest thing on two legs (hi honey!). The next thing you know, you're breeding your own gaming group.

[loves_to_laugh]

As a woman who has been gaming since 1978 (I feel old :smalleek: ), here are my observations, for what they're worth. I have only gamed in the US (or with other Americans), so none of this applies to other cultures/countries.

Female gamers divide into roughly three groups:

1) Women who like to game.

2) Women who game because their boyfriend/husband games, but otherwise would be doing something else. (This includes women who started gaming with their boyfriends and now game because of that wonderful "ring of DM control" on their left hand.*)

3) Women who game to meet/flirt with/annoy men. This includes the subset who can't seem to figure out what the difference is between a d20 and a d6.

Again, the following is based on my personal observations only, and is not meant to be a definitive description of all women gamers everywhere:

Group 1 tends to flock together and stay together. Once we find each other, we continue gaming together for years. Which means, as a general rule, that all the Group 1 women are concentrated. Hence groups with two, three, or more women in them.

Group 2 women may or may not hang out in a group with Group 1 women. Some times, and this is a real pain, a girlfriend will attend out of jealousy. She often creates the "hot chick" type of character and woe betide the boyfriend whose character is not constantly chasing the GF's character. On the other hand, some great gamers came with a boyfriend and stayed after he left.

As long as they don't act bored or put upon or -- even worse -- entitled to special treatment because they condescended to be there, most of the "hangers on" will be welcomed into the game. Otherwise they may be treated with (at best) patient understanding and pity to (at worst) contempt.

Group 1 women will not voluntarily game with a Group 3 chick unless there is some other compelling reason. Girls who game like that make us all look bad, and make it difficult for serious gamers to be taken seriously. If you game with Group 3 girls, those will probably be all the female gamers you will see. It's sort of like kudzu for your game.

HOWEVER, having said that, I have on occasion played a silly game where I was a chain-mail bikini barbarian toying with the attentions of the scholarly wizard boy. That was a deliberate break from routine and we soon went back to our regularly scheduled campaign of death and destruction.

Herewith is TwoCents' suggestion on how to meet good gamers, including of the female persuasion:

GO TO GAMING CONVENTIONS.
1) People have to pay to get in. Only real gamers will show up. There will be a surfeit of Group 1 women gamers.
2) You can learn a lot about how a player will game in a four hour session. So can she. Game well.
3) Once you meet one gamer, and make friends, you are in the door to joining that gamer's gaming group. (say that three times fast)
4) You never know, some girl may be walking by while you stand on a chair chastising your battletech players and think you're the cutest thing on two legs (hi honey!). The next thing you know, you're breeding your own gaming group.


Amen to that! I agree completely!

On to my experience, my main group of gamers has only 2-3 regular females (with the occasional others). I know that many of the male members of our group have said that we are basically the only thing that keeps the group semi-sane, the proverbial glue of the group. But as to the number of female gamers, I have to agree with a 40-60 (female-male) ratio sounding the most accurate. But I also think that the numbers are increasing. It wouldn't have been nearly as high a few years ago.

[brant167]

Out of two groups of about 5 each we have 3 girls. One is one of the best rp'ers I have yet to meet and she dm's a good bit. The other is my long term girlfriend whom I introduced to d&d and she originally joined to hang out with my "strange" friends and got hooked. However she usually plays characters which are contradictory to mine just to have fun. Right now I decided to play a CN rogue so she rolled up a paladin who is a detective hired out to investigate the local thieves’ guild. While the other female came in as someone’s sister she is usually quiet but knows the rules in and out and has the best dry humor I have come across. She usually uses it to her advantage and plays trickster type characters.

Most groups I have played in have at least 1 female, usually 2, playing in the group. So I would say down here about 20-30%.

[Nikolai_II]

The local group here is 50/50, two of each kind ;)

[Hadrian_Emrys]

TwoCents: Bravo and well spoken. That said, I loathe and detest type 3 players to an extent that threatens to bald me. They annoy me in just about the same way a lapdog gets under one's skin by obsessively yapping at an inanimate object for hours, just because. :smallfurious: I'm so thrilled that, most of the time, the gamers around me (of both genders) are type 1 players.

[kjones]

TwoCents, I agree with almost everything you said, except for the last part about conventions. I've met some really cool people at conventions, but my female friends have enough horror stories about sexist, leering, disrespectful men that it would be enough to turn any lesser person off of the hobby forever. And their stories are among the tamer ones out there.

I would say, a convention is a good place to meet other gamers. Some will be cool, and some will be creepy as hell.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

TwoCents, I agree with almost everything you said, except for the last part about conventions. I've met some really cool people at conventions, but my female friends have enough horror stories about sexist, leering, disrespectful men that it would be enough to turn any lesser person off of the hobby forever. And their stories are among the tamer ones out there.

I would say, a convention is a good place to meet other gamers. Some will be cool, and some will be creepy as hell.

Seconded-ish. I've had a nice dose of the creep factor myself. Some female gamers can be really... intense. :smalleek:

[Collin152]

To add to the numbers, I've only met... three gamres that I diddn't convert myself.
One of them was female, but she was another's girlfriend, which may have been a factor.

[Saithis Bladewing]

A girl with CONFIDENCE! *thumbs up*

Confidence? Uh...yeah, sure, we'll go with that one. ~.^

[Nerd-o-rama]

My girlfriend plays, so +1. She's type 1 on your little categories, despite the fact that she met me playing D&D. Two female friends of mine from college also play on and off, as do a couple of other girls in the same gaming club as my girlfriend (we go/went to different colleges, and therefore different gaming circles).

[EvilElitest]

Wait, wasn't Gavrilo Princip (the guy who assassinated Franz Ferdinand) a member of the group called Young/New Bosnia (I'm not sure which)? And he was, from Bosnia, not Serbia, although I'm not sure whether Bosnia was part of Serbia at that time... It was in Yugoslavia, yeah, but I think it was just one municipality of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. Or I could be wrong.


No it was the Serbia, the assassination was IN Bosnia (which was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire) but he was himself from Serbia
He was part of the Black Hand, which might have also been called Young/new Bosnia or somehow connected as they wanted to bring about Yugoslavia

I do know that Austria gave Serbia an ultimatum in response. Serbia refused and Austria declared war on them. Serbia defeated Austria a few times (pretty devastating if i recall) but was eventually conquered by Austria and Bulgaria, however it regained its freedom and eventually was on the winning side of the war and formed Yugoslavia. Which was conquered in the second World War and then by the Soviets:smallannoyed:

from
EE
edit
With Bladewing around, you have all the girls you need


By the by Frosty, are you female?

[Gorbash]

Ah yes, now I remember. Radomir Putnik (meaning Traveler) decimated the Austro-Hungarians. Serves 'em right. :smalltongue:


Serbia refused and Austria declared war on them.

This happened soooo many times since then :smallbiggrin:

I thank you for this lovely rant, even though it's totally offtopic. :smallwink:

EDIT: I just remembered something you said earlier


Albania aiding Serbia

This most definitely didn't happen. We're favoured enemies to each other for the past 500 hundred years (since it was a part of the Ottoman Empire), and even moreso recently. I checked it out now, and the only mention of Albania in the Great War is that Serbian army made a retreat OVER Albania (and Albanian tribal bands attack the retreating army), so there was definitely no aid from them.

[Fixer]

2) Women who game because their boyfriend/husband games, but otherwise would be doing something else. (This includes women who started gaming with their boyfriends and now game because of that wonderful "ring of DM control" on their left hand.*)My wife plays only because I play. That said she does enjoy playing, but probably wouldn't play if I wasn't there because she doesn't understand the rules. She is particular to her "Leslie the Gay Minotaur Ranger" character. Her characters are always very full of character, as opposed to numbers (which I help with).

I have had two female GMs in my time. Each of my girlfriends (and my ex-wife) played because I played but I doubt any of them play any more. I cannot think of any other females I have played D&D with.

In fact, I think I have played D&D with more homosexual male gamers (three) than female gamers I wasn't dating (two).

[Gorbash]

Leslie the Gay Minotaur Ranger

Well, this most definitely proves my point that women aren't serious about DnD...

[PnP Fan]

In recent years I've played with groups of 6-7 people, with 1 or 2 women in the group at a time. I've known two female game masters. And, aside from short-lived girlfriends that were dragged kicking and screaming to the games, this is probably the largest number of female players I've ever seen. And I've gamed on both coasts, and numerous states in between.

[Rutee]

Well, this most definitely proves my point that women aren't serious about DnD...

I'm going to assume you've learned your lesson after being verbally beaten by several people, and that this is just poor delivery of sarcasm.

[Gorbash]

I'm going to assume you've learned your lesson after being verbally beaten by several people, and that this is just poor delivery of sarcasm.

Nah, I'm very stubborn, 'verbal beating' didn't change my mind. And also we come from different cultures, I can't expect you to understand my point of view, and since I'm the only one from my country around here, there's no one but me to state my point, and that 'beating' you're talking about made place only by your sheer numbers, not by the fact that you're right. And it isn't sarcasm, I'm afraid. Leslie the Gay Minotaur. There are so many things wrong with that, that I have no idea where to start from. Leslie, a name for a minotaur. No serious minotaur would call himself Leslie. Nor would he be gay. It kinda ruins the point of whole fantasy setting, where minotaurs are feral monsters who relish combat, and I can assume that is moderately funny to someone, and by naming him Leslie and Gay, that setting is totally mocked, and proves just how serious that person is not.

[DeathQuaker]

Generally -- more guys play than girls, but more girls play than you think.

I'd also say there are probably more female RPGers than female DnDers--genrally speaking, a lot of female gamers I know like other systems better, particularly ones that are a little less stat heavy and a little more RP oriented by nature (but certainly you can have some awesome roleplay w/ D&D--I quite like the game myself).

I was in an unusual situation in college because my college itself was 70% female... I was actually in several gaming groups that were all female or where the girls outnumbered the guys. But see, in that circumstance where lots of girls played, lots more girls noticed and realized it might be an activity they'd enjoy.

One thing I've noticed is that in situations where there are a lot of male gamers, if one girl shows up, more will follow. If it's a situation where the general consensus is "girls aren't supposed to game" girls won't show up because they won't want to feel unwelcome (at best; at worst, discriminated against or harassed) -- just like a guy who loves to knit (yes, they exist) may feel awkward showing up to the local stitch'n'bitch.

So I'd say if the girlfriend of the OP is worried that she will be the only girl, there's a good chance, depending on the situation, that if she starts playing, she'll end up finding more female gamers.

Also, an experiment: go to GenCon and take note of all the girls there. Trust me, they're gamers.

[Rutee]

Nah, I'm very stubborn, 'verbal beating' didn't change my mind. And also we come from different cultures, I can't expect you to understand my point of view, and since I'm the only one from my country around here, there's no one but me to state my point, and that 'beating' you're talking about made place only by your sheer numbers, not by the fact that you're right. And it isn't sarcasm, I'm afraid. Leslie the Gay Minotaur. There are so many things wrong with that, that I have no idea where to start from. Leslie, a name for a minotaur. No serious minotaur would call himself Leslie. Nor would he be gay. It kinda ruins the point of whole fantasy setting, where minotaurs are feral monsters who relish combat, and I can assume that is moderately funny to someone, and by naming him Leslie and Gay, that setting is totally mocked, and proves just how serious that person is not.

Actually, a Minotaur /can/ be gay. Pretty much any creature with a sexual drive can be. While I don't know of documented cases of bulls wooing other bulls, I'm sure it's happened. Regardless, your opinion is that women can't roleplay seriously, despite having direct proof to the contrary staring you in the face? (Yo)

Feel free to be wrong.

[Lord_Kimboat]

I know a couple of women that play - some are young enough probably to qualify as girls. As to the quality of their play, that is hard to judge.

Gorbash - While I too have difficulty with the concept of Leslie the Gay Minotaur, it could be quite appropriate in some games that I have played. While it is true that MOST Minotaurs are feral monsters this doesn't mean that all are. Are all rogues theives? Are all paladins pompous? Are all Dwarves greedy?

Aside from that, I've games with some male players that create characters that make Leslie seem almost bland.

The women I've gamed with generally enjoy the game but are, for the most part, not rules experts and are more into developing interesting personalities than in developing a powerful character mechanically. Many of them are attracted to the drama of D&D and less about kill counts. Now, I've only met a small percentage of gamers, male or female and it's quite possible that there are a whole cadre of women gamers out there who like nothing more than to munchkin their hearts out.

I think there would be more female gamers interested if 1) D&D gamers weren't sterotyped as hopeless geeks - sadly I am a geek but not all of the people I play with are and there are levels of geekery. 2) They weren't concerned that they were going to be hit on or chatted up by said horny geeks. 3) Adventures counted more on drama and plot and less on CRs, special abilities and metagaming.

[Kurald Galain]

Leslie the Gay Minotaur. There are so many things wrong with that, that I have no idea where to start from.

I do. It seems that doesn't fit with your preconceptions of how a fantasy world should be, and with your apparent assumption that there is precisely one true kind of fantasy world, and that every variation on that is by definition wrong.

Are you aware of the difference between Krynnish minotaurs, Forgotten Realms minotaurs, World of Warcraft minotaurs, and Greek mythology minotaurs? Or, for that matter, the difference between American sexual morality, European sexual morality, Ancient Greek sexual morality, or internet subculture sexual morality?

Simply put, I find your arguments extremely narrow.

[Saithis Bladewing]

I do. It seems that doesn't fit with your preconceptions of how a fantasy world should be, and with your apparent assumption that there is precisely one true kind of fantasy world, and that every variation on that is by definition wrong.

Are you aware of the difference between Krynnish minotaurs, Forgotten Realms minotaurs, World of Warcraft minotaurs, and Greek mythology minotaurs? Or, for that matter, the difference between American sexual morality, European sexual morality, Ancient Greek sexual morality, or internet subculture sexual morality?

Simply put, I find your arguments extremely narrow.

I was just gonna say, sounds like a fun character to me. :P At least for a comical campaign. And I don't consider myself to be a type 2 or type 3, for sure. :smallannoyed:

[Gorbash]

Regardless, your opinion is that women can't roleplay seriously, despite having direct proof to the contrary staring you in the face? (Yo)

Leslie the Gay Minotaur is one of the examples that gives me proof that they're not serious about it (note that I never said that they can't roleplay, I merely said they're not serious about it). Sure, one can roleplay Leslie the Gay Minotaur, won't change a fact that it's kinda dumb and not serious.


the difference between American sexual morality, European sexual morality

Precisesly because of this, you can't understand my point of view, and neither can I understand yours...

[Rutee]

Leslie the Gay Minotaur is one of the examples that gives me proof that they're not serious about it (note that I never said that they can't roleplay, I merely said they're not serious about it). Sure, one can roleplay Leslie the Gay Minotaur, won't change a fact that it's kinda dumb and not serious.

Women can roleplay and be serious about it. Lord and tailor, you have at least 5 female posters in this thread telling you you're wrong. Do you think we're all liars?

[EvilElitest]

Ah yes, now I remember. Radomir Putnik (meaning Traveler) decimated the Austro-Hungarians. Serves 'em right. :smalltongue:


Well after hte war Austria Hungry broke into a lot of different countries, CzechSlovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland (part of Russia and Germany's land was there as well) Austria and Hungry


This happened soooo many times since then :smallbiggrin:
meh, its eastern Europe, i can imagine it


I thank you for this lovely rant, even though it's totally offtopic. :smallwink:


you welcome

Its not off topic, hte black hand was led by dice rolling girls:smallamused:




EDIT: I just remembered something you said earlier



This most definitely didn't happen. We're favoured enemies to each other for the past 500 hundred years (since it was a part of the Ottoman Empire), and even moreso recently. I checked it out now, and the only mention of Albania in the Great War is that Serbian army made a retreat OVER Albania (and Albanian tribal bands attack the retreating army), so there was definitely no aid from them.

I know they are normally natural enemies, but you forget, the Albianians hated the Austrio Hungarions even more than they hated the Serbians. So they did work together breifly against a common threat
from
EE

[Saithis Bladewing]

Women can roleplay and be serious about it. Lord and tailor, you have at least 5 female posters in this thread telling you you're wrong. Do you think we're all liars?

Well, the stereotypes do say that we're duplicitous by nature...

[Charity]

You know the meme Saithis...

Oh and, pictures or it ain't true.

Oh and, Gorbash adhering to silly sexual steriotypes is the same in any culture, you ain't the only eastern European I've ever talked to by a long shot.

[AmberVael]

Well, this most definitely proves my point that women aren't serious about DnD...

Oh dear, and here I was thinking I won Powergamer and Rules Lawyer in the playground because I was serious about DnD to the point of being obsessive and possibly even obnoxious.
(Note- I'll grant that there are those who deserve the titles more than I do, but they chose not to participate, or simply weren't there participating. Still, the fact stands that out of those who did participate, I won.)

Now, first I'll say that there are cases where you are right. You may, in fact, be correct the majority of the time. But making it an all inclusive statement is entirely incorrect- there are women who are serious about DnD, and I have talked and played with them (Saithis being one who I have played with- and if we're not serious about DnD, then I don't want to know your definition of who is.)

You're simply making a fool of yourself by persisting in this erroneous assumption, and I advise you to take it back so you won't degrade people's opinion of your intellect more than you already have.

[Reinboom]

I've played with more completely intolerable male players (2 from my home town, 4 from college, 1 on line, just off the top of my head) than intolerable female players (1 from college). Usually, it's been that female players that stay in the game despite the male population saying otherwise have been more mature because of it.

Also, I've only seen the line of:
"In my family, all the men love women, the boys love women.... even the women, love women!"
With a character that loved to rip off his shirt. Over and over.
Come from a male.
Thus, all males are not serious.
None. Not even Gorbash. :smalltongue:

=edit=
That's university college, rather. Not the late years of grade school college.

[Saithis Bladewing]

You know the meme Saithis...

Oh and, pictures or it ain't true.

Oh and, Gorbash adhering to silly sexual steriotypes is the same in any culture, you ain't the only eastern European I've ever talked to by a long shot.

*Ahem.*

NO MEANS NO! :smallsigh:

[EvilElitest]

Nah, I'm very stubborn, 'verbal beating' didn't change my mind. And also we come from different cultures, I can't expect you to understand my point of view, and since I'm the only one from my country around here, there's no one but me to state my point, and that 'beating' you're talking about made place only by your sheer numbers, not by the fact that you're right. And it isn't sarcasm, I'm afraid. Leslie the Gay Minotaur. There are so many things wrong with that, that I have no idea where to start from. Leslie, a name for a minotaur. No serious minotaur would call himself Leslie. Nor would he be gay. It kinda ruins the point of whole fantasy setting, where minotaurs are feral monsters who relish combat, and I can assume that is moderately funny to someone, and by naming him Leslie and Gay, that setting is totally mocked, and proves just how serious that person is not.

Wait, doesn't Rutee normally make the relativism argument. Congrats, you've out relativist Rutee

from
EE

[Serpentine]

Precisesly because of this, you can't understand my point of view, and neither can I understand yours..."You couldn't possibly understand my point of view, therefore I'm right and you're wrong"? :smallconfused: I'm sorry, but you can't justify "no girls take D&D seriously!" stated as fact with "I live in a different country to you". Furthermore, I have several female friends - more than my male, in fact - who comprehensively refute that direly erroneous generalisation. "Serious" does not mean "humourless", or if for you it does, I think I'd find your games terribly dull.

In response to the title question: In my current game, there are two girls and three guys. Not long ago it was three girls and two guys. One of those girls is in something like 3 D&D games and 2 or 3 World of Darkness games (and you say girls can't be serious about their roleplaying...). In my very first game I was ever involved in, with more than 10 people involved, there were about 6, including the DM - around half. I think that more of the girls I know than guys play or have played, and a number of the latter were introduced to it by myself and the boyfriend. I think my sister plays, as well.
Conclusion: Many. Or at least, very many around here.

[Fawsto]

I actually know about 3 or 4 girls that play D&D.

They are unusual, I admit, but they'r ranks are growing.

[Charity]

*Ahem.*

NO MEANS NO! :smallsigh:

Sorely tempted as I am to say something along the lines of 'Aw go on, I'll show you mine if...' I think there are those out there that might think I'm being serious... that and Saithis would finally discover a way to disembowel me over the net...
So I'll stick with :smalltongue:

I know plenty of women who play, only one girl though, and she's my daughter... she's nearly 5 now and already she make more sense than some folk around these parts.

[Kurald Galain]

Precisesly because of this, you can't understand my point of view, and neither can I understand yours...

Speak for yourself; you don't know me. From experience, I am quite capable of understanding other cultures.

Essentially you've just claimed that you are unable to understand, well, pretty much everybody else in this thread. That is your choice, and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is your assertion that those people cannot possibly be serious; since you don't understand them, you have no grounds to make that claim.

[Fawsto]

I actually know about 3 or 4 girls that play D&D.

They are unusual, I admit, but they'r ranks are growing.

[Gorbash]

I know they are normally natural enemies, but you forget, the Albianians hated the Austrio Hungarions even more than they hated the Serbians. So they did work together breifly against a common threat
from
EE

Feel free to say 'you' instead of 'they'. Animosity is still present. :smalltongue:



I know they are normally natural enemies, but you forget, the Albianians hated the Austrio Hungarions even more than they hated the Serbians. So they did work together breifly against a common threat

Ah, but that's the point - they didn't! They attacked Serbs who were retreating across Albania all the time and didn't give any support whatsoever.


Now, first I'll say that there are cases where you are right. You may, in fact, be correct the majority of the time. But making it an all inclusive statement is entirely incorrect- there are women who are serious about DnD, and I have talked and played with them (Saithis being one who I have played with- and if we're not serious about DnD, then I don't want to know your definition of who is.)

I wasn't saying it applies to ALL cases, I was refering to MOST cases. I even applouded to few girls who posted in this topic.


Women can roleplay and be serious about it. Lord and tailor, you have at least 5 female posters in this thread telling you you're wrong. Do you think we're all liars?

My point exactly. 5 girls and how many guys? That's all I was saying.

Oh and something else, since people started comparing male and female players. Males can be as bad (and even worse in some of my experiences) in not being serious, not roleplaying, have no understanding of the rules etc, I'm just saying that happens more in girls than in guys. I wasn't being exclusive.

[Serpentine]

Well, this most definitely proves my point that women aren't serious about DnD...I see no "most" here. Furthermore, the fact that there are more guys posting here than girls merely indicates that there tend to be a) more guys than girls who play D&D, and/or b) there are more guys than girl frequenting this forum. It has nothing to do with their mindset nor seriousness nor anything else relating to anything other than numbers. I would, in fact, put it to you that many, if not most, of the females who post in this section of the forum are exceptionally serious about their D&D. If you refuse to acknowledge the evidence presented by a cursory survey of the site you are currently on and choose to hide behind a weak excuse of "cultural difference", that's your problem. Also, check the rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1) on political issues.

[Gorbash]

I see no "most" here.

Got me there. I appologize for that, it was a mistake on my part, I actually wanted to say that the player behind Leslie is in no way serious about DnD.


I would, in fact, put it to you that many, if not most, of the females who post in this section of the forum are exceptionally serious about their D&D.

On that, I don't have anything to say because I usually don't check the gender of the poster, so I cannot contradict you on that one with some proof. I will pay attention to that in the future.


Also, check the rules on political issues.

We're discussing events that happened over 90 years ago...

[Frosty]

Have you considered the fact that Leslie may be in fact a female and not a male? Most males would not be named Leslie. That is fine. Female Minotaurs can name themselves Leslie without problems. And even female Minotaurs can have same-sex preferences. They can have those preferences and *still* be bloodthirsty bastards.

[Pester]

I'm in... five games right now. Two of them are 3 of each, one is 4f/5m, one is intentionally all girls (the men of Gwynneth are all struck by a plague), and in the last, I'm the only girl.

But it looks like this thread switched to "How girls play". On the topic of girls not being "serious" about roleplaying, I'd say, to each his own. Everyone get the urge to make a silly character now and then- a friend of mine did a hyperactive fae girl in Exalted that was very anime influenced and who he drank a lot of pop before hand to prepare for. I used the Snow Write Druid variant in the gaming section of this site to make an over the top, girly, Disney-style druid. A gay minotaur doesn't seem too off base to me. It's true that girls may not care as much about going through every little minutae to get the perfect character, but a lot of people think that the best part of roleplaying is actually playing. I've been called a power gamer, but in the end, I'd rather spend half an hour thinking of a clever ambush or blackmail scheme then how to weasel the DM into letting me use Tome of Battle. Just because people don't play exactly the way you do doesn't mean that they aren't serious about roleplaying.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

For crap's sake! I've played an albino Half Black Dragon Minotaur before JUST so he could have the coloration of a dairy cow (and red eyes). It's called a sense of humor, some of us have one. I do not play DnD so I can pretend to work a 9-5 job for minimum wage, I play to have fun. If what's fun for me happens to be playing a strange mix of memes and cliches in additon to taking the serious parts of the game seriously, that's my call to make. If what was fun for her is playing a monster of an alternate lifestyle, and it wasn't offending anyone else, what the heck is the harm? I swear to Bawb... :smallconfused:

[SilverClawShift]

Well, this most definitely proves my point that women aren't serious about DnD...

I know the rules well enough to DM for my freaking group.

What the hell?

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: If I were WampaX, I'd probably say something clever and pithy like, "simmer down pepperpots," but I'm not, so let me remind you all in a more boring fashion of the "no real world politics" rule (which includes the historical as well as the current) and the rules on gender based flaming:


Extreme Flaming
A flame that includes insults or slurs based on anyone's race, religion, ethnicity, age, gender, or sexual orientation is a Permanent Infraction, at the least, and may result in an Instant Ban for Hate Speech. Additionally, this Infraction may be issued in the case of a particularly nasty flame of any type at the discretion of the Mods.


Hate Speech
Particularly flagrant examples of insults or slurs based on anyone's race, religion, ethnicity, age, gender, or sexual orientation, and especially any post advocating violence towards those of a certain race, religion, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation will result in an immediate ban.

and note that our rules don't require you to target a single poster. Any insult against other posters, individually, collectively, or by type, is forbidden.

[Illiterate Scribe]

:peeks out from behind Roland's coat:

Yeah! What he said! Git you and your rage offa mah lahwn!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, silly me, I forgot several nice women I play RPGs online with (primarily over on plothook, an RPG forum where the owner and the chief techie are both women). I've only confirmed that one is female (the internet being what it is), but the others have no particular reason to lie.

[Roland St. Jude]

...I've only confirmed that one is female (the internet being what it is)...

Behold, the power of webcams! :smallwink:

[Illiterate Scribe]

Behold, the power of webcams! :smallwink:

Even they can be tricked ... :smallamused:

[kamikasei]

My group includes two females and four males. I know one other IRL female gamer, but I think she mostly plays BESM. I don't have a large pool of RL gaming acquaintances, though.

I don't think it's that important that there be a gender balance at a table... these things happen organically. More important is that a minority gender (okay, I'll be honest: a girl) can be confident she'll not be this strange, mysterious creature that fascinates the rest of the table and causes their social skills to short out. Then it's just like having any social group which happens to be gender-skewed.

[Rutee]

Behold, the power of webcams! :smallwink:

And the power of crossdressing :smalltongue:

[Roland St. Jude]

And the power of crossdressing :smalltongue:

I assumed Nerd-o-rama was more thorough in his confirmation. (He did use italics after all.) :smallbiggrin:

[AKA_Bait]

I'd say it's around 25% or so. I've been in groups that were mostly female and groups that were entirely male. The two groups I'm currently in are 20% female and 50% female.

Honestly, I think the reason the numbers are skewed is 2 fold.

1. Most D&D players I know started playing rpg's of some kind or other before they reached puberty. Kids, at least in my school, tended to cluster by gender at that age and at that point D&D was marketed pretty much just to guys.

2. There is still something of a social stigma attached to the game. The main way new players get introduced to D&D is through friends or sig others. I know plenty of guys who wouldn't even mention that they game to a girl in the first week + of dating them, let alone invite them to play. I also know girls that not only would not play with their sig others because it is 'too geeky' but have actually broken up with them over it (ok, that one was me.) It's something of a self feeding cycle.

I think the reason group composition varies so wildly from group to group is partially due to those cultural pressures in areas and how people react to them. All the girls in my gaming group were brought in by one girl, who was brought by a HS boyfriend.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I assumed Nerd-o-rama was more thorough in his confirmation. (He did use italics after all.) :smallbiggrin:As thorough as I could be without legally requiring permission first.

[Rhuadin]

Did you guys seriously make me register in order to stop lurking and post in this thread? ;) The super-long D&D stat questionnaire thread almost made me register, but I guess this one wins.

Anyway, I've never noticed a discrepancy between female and male D&D players except under certain unfortunately common circumstances. For example, there was a session where this girl was playing because she was attracted to the DM. Eventually she got frustrated with playing and left because the DM kept objectifying her (her character was introduced to us nekkid... and tied up, no less). She also stopped being attracted to the DM.

The game I'm running now (no I wasn't that DM) is composed of 3 girls, 2 guys, and myself. Only one of the girls is dating a guy at the table, and she was actually the one who dragged him into coming, not the other way around. The other guy is my best friend. Actually, after our most recent session, another girl who happened to be hanging around got so interested just from watching us play that she wants me to introduce her into the next session. She's single as well. This would bring this group's demographic to 200% as many girls as guys.

I should note here that I typically do not run serious games, and none of the aforementioned gamers (except my best friend) play seriously. I ran a game over Christmas break with an NPC named the 'Fat Man' who was an autocrat over a bunch of subservient elves... as the game progressed it became increasingly clear that this guy was actually Santa Claus.

I have run serious games with girls who played seriously, however. My last such group was 2 guys and 2 girls, none of which were attached (one of the girls actually ended up dating one of the guys, as a direct result of this game (see? You can get dates playing D&D :) ) who, interestingly enough, was so geeky that he had never dated anyone before her. The game was serious enough that the characters alignments (lawful good vs chaotic good) was a fine enough distinction that the two girls (CG sorceress and ranger) ended up taking a stand against the two guys (LG paladin and cleric), but the players were mature enough to not take it personally.

But yeah, as for gravity of play goes, I figure we're all hanging out to have fun, so why care about how serious the game is as long as we're all collaboratively enjoying ourselves? I use D&D as an excuse for friends to hang out and goof off with one another, not to see who can flaunt their biggest um... paper-peen?

[RukiTanuki]

Should I mentioned that it was a girlfriend that originally got me into roleplaying? :)

My current group is two guys, two girls. Things are going just fine (other than the usual troubles of trying to schedule games among five people's busy schedules). The group is a good blend of personalities, and play off each other well.

Over the last few years and a few campaigns, I've had a good run of female players. They've been as interested in the game as any other player; they've contributed equally; and their characters have been as interesting as anyone else's. Some examples (names changed etc.):

Yasmine played a gestalt paladin//eladrin monster progression, heavily edited. She was brand-new and wanted to play a butt-kicking angel; I drafted the character knowing it'd be very hard to kill her, and she could contribute without eclipsing any other PC. Yasmine eventually left the group for out-of-game reasons.

Candice came in as the girlfriend of a player; they started as a two-PC party. She enjoys the game quite a bit. Her first character was an elven druid//ranger (shapeshift variant, archery focus). Candice's boyfriend played a mounted paladin//favored soul. Combat frequently consisted of the boyfriend (who's played more than one game under my DMing) charging into the midst of the monsters, casting an area-affect attack that damaged himself, absorbing the attacks of the crowd, then yelling out for healing (as he didn't want to provoke AoO). Candice, on the other hand, would send out her pet, summon another animal, crowd-control the enemies, and start blasting Call Lightning. This was her first character, and I wasn't coaching her. She's now the "acolyte with a shotgun" in the Ravenloft campaign, and the other players are impressed with her character's ability to be useful in almost every situation.

Kim, in contrast, brought HER boyfriend along. :) Kim played a gnome bard//favored soul, a cheery inquisitive scamp that joined the group much to the Brock's dwarf's chagrin. She managed to aid the warlock//warmage in a duel (vs. a wizard//artificer no less) by concealing her spellcasting as dancing on the sidelines. (Yes, she found the necessary feat on her own and had selected it already.) She also had the artifact of the campaign: the Hammer of Widgets, greatest of all gnome inventions. She found several random abilities of the artifact, but figured out that it'd often pick the most useful ability automatically whenever she swung it at the problem. She also frequently rode atop her boyfriend's halfling since he was faster than she, even while carrying her. Kim played two games of D&D a week until my game went on hiatus (and work crunch time eventually consumed her time).

Angela is the newest player. She's playing in Ravenloft as well. She deliberately treats the game as a social activity and not an exercise in ego-stroking; her character is the sneaker of the group, which lets her stay in the background while the other characters take the spotlight. That is not to say she doesn't take action, however; she was instrumental in the fight against / escape from the Vistani when the cards (literally) didn't fall their way. She confused the enemy and ran decoy while the others hijacked a pickup, catching up with the team after the Vistani lost her trail. Angela has the largest collection of D&D books other than my own (I am the DM after all), but doesn't feel like pouring over every single splatbook to find the most optimized build. (See above.)

---

Overall, I haven't really treated my female players any differently, and they fit into the group just fine. Sure, Candice has trouble handling a full spellbook, but she learned how to put together and organize the information she needs. (This is more than I can say for long-time group member John, who insists on playing blaster mages, but frequently has to be told what spells he has available.) Kim's gnome and Brock's dwarf were at odds now and again (I set down a "no enchanting PCs" rule very quickly), but it was similar to the conflict Brock and Eric had during Star Wars, and was far less disrupting to the game in general. Eric had me scrambling to repair my rapidly-sabotaged scenarios (and eventually the universe), whereas Kim added to the story (to the point where I added a gnome/dwarf city to the adventure I was running to give the two more spotlight, and put the race's relations into a new perspective). Angela often studies during game downtimes (she asked and got permission ahead of time), but it takes very little effort to bring her back in the game ... unlike when, say, John and Jack go a bit AWOL with a side discussion.

My players are my players. I don't view them in terms of gender; I focus on what parts of my game they like or don't like. Every session is more practice on ad-libbing interesting NPCs, maintaining pace and group interest, taking the game in directions I didn't expect, and making sure the rules don't get in the way of everyone's fun.

The advice I have is to bring your best game to the table, accommodate your players as best you can, and realize that no hobby can interest everyone, and no player fits into every single group. Figuring out whether or not your play style alienates people you'd like to bring into the hobby is another rant altogether, and probably outside the scope of the OP. :)

[Samakain]

A sense of humour at the gaming table is NEEDED, you can't go without it and frankly i raise the rainbow flag of salute to Leslie! awsome concept XD

I like my serious games as much as the next guy, indepth story, strong roleplaying. But at the same time theres the silly, i've played in games containing such memorables as Spoon the Barbarian, Gokain the Enlightend Fist, Dunno Whatsyours a Halfling --- Thing. Stock Standard the cleric and Jones the alchoholic arcane archer.

Spoon wins thou

40 levels of barbarian beef

Woof

How did he get his name? changed it, lvl 3 we where at a bar. gets attacked by bandits. Spoon is eating his soup and decides to throw the first thing at hand at his attackers, 2 natural twenties, death by spoon at 20 feet. He was played by a crazy italian girl

[elliott20]

the fact that a thread like this needs to exists I think is enough reason why a lot of girls won't play. Seriously, who the hell wants to feel like playing a game would also be an announcement for attention? honestly now.

it's not like it's some kind of big deal, yeesh.

[Rhuadin]

Gah, I just had another girl ask me if she could join because she heard I was running a game from her roommate, who is a player. That brings us to 5 girls and 2 guys, which is getting close to my limit (I try not to run games of 8 or more, it just takes too long).

Talking to her, it sounds like she has experience, but in a frankly horrible environment. When she asked me about my DMing style, I told her about how I only choose a setting and let the player's determine the plot, and she was like, 'Wow, you're a really loose DM! My old one would only give me two options, I could go into the vat of jello or the vat of mud!" ............:smalleek:


the fact that a thread like this needs to exists I think is enough reason why a lot of girls won't play. Seriously, who the hell wants to feel like playing a game would also be an announcement for attention? honestly now.

it's not like it's some kind of big deal, yeesh.
Depends on who you play with. In my case, the guys are an announcement for attention. ;) Also, there do exist girls that play because they enjoy the male attention. Think of it this way -- would you do say um, cheerleading, if (and this is not the case, but bear with me) all the girls were like, 'OMG it's a boy! I'm going to awkwardly hit on you now for the sole reason that we share an activity most boys don't do!'

Guys and girls aren't that different, there's no need to segment them into neat little categories :)

[DeathQuaker]

I also know girls that not only would not play with their sig others because it is 'too geeky' but have actually broken up with them over it (ok, that one was me.)

Sorry you had an unreasonable S.O. -- but best be rid of someone who dumps you for a simple hobby. :smallfrown:

I did want to beg to differ though... I can think of, off the top of my head, at least eight couples (seven of which are happily married) I'm friends with, where the girls were gamers before they met their S.O.s, and in fact the fact that the male partners were gamers was part of what attracted them to them.

I think one thing (VERY generally speaking) though is geek girls are often attracted to geek guys. I've noticed on the other hand there is a large group of male gamers who aren't attracted to geek girls, who tend to have some tomboyish traits, but "girly" girls who are unlikely to be interested in that kind of hobby. Again, however, very generally speaking.

So basically, gamer guys don't find gamer girls because they aren't looking for them, or don't expect girls to be gamers.


the fact that a thread like this needs to exists I think is enough reason why a lot of girls won't play.

Who said it "needed" to exist? The OP asked a simple question, which others have been trying to answer for him. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, the almost flame-war that erupted halfway through this thread and almost derailed it, THAT kind of thing is one of the reasons a lot of girls won't play. Because would-be female gamers will come in touch with negative and misinformed attitudes towards them, think it's representative of a general gaming population, and (understandably) hightail it out of there towards a hobby where they aren't disparaged, harrassed or told they're "not interested" or "it's not for them."

And disparagement, harrassment, and unwelcoming attitudes are exactly WHY a open, reasonable discussion of this SHOULD be taking place--to help encourage open-mindedness and getting rid of the negativity that keeps a certain portion of the population from discovering a hobby that they perhaps would enjoy.


Seriously, who the hell wants to feel like playing a game would also be an announcement for attention? honestly now.

it's not like it's some kind of big deal, yeesh.

I don't appreciate your apparent disrespect towards the people here who were having an interesting and informative discussion. It's clearly a "big deal" to some, and they have the right to their opinion. How would you like it if you were talking about something you felt was important, and someone just came up and said, "Dude, why do you even care? It's not a big deal." I imagine you'd feel you had just been unreasonably discounted. It's not a nice feeling, is it? So try not to discount other people.

[Tombstone]

My girlfriend was wondering, what percentage of D&Ders are girls.

What? A tree grows in Brooklyn?

[AKA_Bait]

Sorry you had an unreasonable S.O. -- but best be rid of someone who dumps you for a simple hobby. :smallfrown:

Oh agreed. I'm not sorry that ended. If it hadn't, I wouldn't have met my soon to be wife.


I did want to beg to differ though... I can think of, off the top of my head, at least eight couples (seven of which are happily married) I'm friends with, where the girls were gamers before they met their S.O.s, and in fact the fact that the male partners were gamers was part of what attracted them to them.

I think one thing (VERY generally speaking) though is geek girls are often attracted to geek guys. I've noticed on the other hand there is a large group of male gamers who aren't attracted to geek girls, who tend to have some tomboyish traits, but "girly" girls who are unlikely to be interested in that kind of hobby. Again, however, very generally speaking.

So basically, gamer guys don't find gamer girls because they aren't looking for them, or don't expect girls to be gamers.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't really see how this relates to my point. Certianly there are gamer couples. My point was that typically, girls are more likley to get other girls into gaming than guys are (per capita). Since there is a smaller number of girls already, this perpetuates the imbalance in number of players of each gender.

Edit:
Something else occurred to me as I was standing in line waiting for a Turkey sandwich:

A remarkably disproportionate number of girls I have gamed with consider themselves bisexual or lesbian (read: all of them). Now, I don't know if this is just a consequence of my own social group (only around 10% of the guys are gay or bi) but if it's a wider trend there might be some sort of correlation bettween the two. If the is one, whether that's a chainmail bikini effect, some socialization consequence or some potentially linked genetic disposition I have no idea.

[DeathQuaker]

Oh agreed. I'm not sorry that ended. If it hadn't, I wouldn't have met my soon to be wife.

Hurrah for wife!


Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't really see how this relates to my point. Certianly there are gamer couples. My point was that typically, girls are more likley to get other girls into gaming than guys are (per capita). Since there is a smaller number of girls already, this perpetuates the imbalance in number of players of each gender.

I think I did lose you somewhere. Might've been conflating your posts w/ others where the assertion seemed to be that most girls who game start off as a male gamer's girlfriend.

I was saying, basically, most female gamers I know were gamers before they had long term SOs.

I do agree (and had posted something similarly awhile back, though from a different approach) that girls will draw other girls into gaming.


A remarkably disproportionate number of girls I have gamed with consider themselves bisexual or lesbian (read: all of them). Now, I don't know if this is just a consequence of my own social group (only around 10% of the guys are gay or bi) but if it's a wider trend there might be some sort of correlation bettween the two. If the is one, whether that's a chainmail bikini effect, some socialization consequence or some potentially linked genetic disposition I have no idea.

Most female gamers I know (many) are straight or bi (I'm among the bi). I've never met a gamer who identifies as lesbian, though I'm sure they're out there (some are on this very forum, IIRC).

May be in part the company you keep, but may also be part of a trend. It'd be interesting to try to do a statistical sample and see what one came up with.

Purely guess-wise, I'd say not so much women who are of a specific orientation are drawn to gaming, but moreso women who are not concerned with or generally try to overcome gender stereotyping will be more willing to try gaming. Now a bi or lesbian woman is already going to have to deal with overcoming gender role and stereotyping for other reasons, so that might be where the relationship comes in. But again, totally guessing.

[Frosty]

Female or not, I just wish there were more people willing to play Tabletop RPGs in my area period. It's hard to find a group. Right now the people I play with are all are all high school friends with the exception of one. The one girl I know who is interested in playing has conflicting schedules and is way too busy to play :(

[Rutee]

I'm bi, I'm going to guess complete and utter lack of causation on either end, personally. Small, small, /small/ sample sizes, no matter where we look. I won't be terribly surprised if there's causation on one side or the other (Likely on the side of the gamer though, rather then the hobby), just that I'll take the safer bet :smalltongue:


Female or not, I just wish there were more people willing to play Tabletop RPGs in my area period. It's hard to find a group. Right now the people I play with are all are all high school friends with the exception of one. The one girl I know who is interested in playing has conflicting schedules and is way too busy to play :(
Seconded greatly.

[Talya]

I'll have to agree with Rutee. And DQ. And i'm sure some others here. I don't know why I just can't bring myself to read this thread in entirety...but as a closeted bi-gamergirl, I felt I should at least pop-in and say hi.

...uh...closetted gamer that is...

[AKA_Bait]

Hurrah for wife!

Hear hear!


I think I did lose you somewhere. Might've been conflating your posts w/ others where the assertion seemed to be that most girls who game start off as a male gamer's girlfriend.

Oh yeah, that was someone else. Most of the female gamers I know were brought in by a female friend (although in one case the 'friend' was also the young woman's girlfriend).


Most female gamers I know (many) are straight or bi (I'm among the bi). I've never met a gamer who identifies as lesbian, though I'm sure they're out there (some are on this very forum, IIRC).

Thinking about it some more, only one of them identifies as lesbian and she identified as bi before she met her long term SO (same pair as above actually).


May be in part the company you keep, but may also be part of a trend. It'd be interesting to try to do a statistical sample and see what one came up with.

Yeah, but somehow, I don't see the National Academy of Science giving us a research grant for this. :smallannoyed:


Purely guess-wise, I'd say not so much women who are of a specific orientation are drawn to gaming, but moreso women who are not concerned with or generally try to overcome gender stereotyping will be more willing to try gaming. Now a bi or lesbian woman is already going to have to deal with overcoming gender role and stereotyping for other reasons, so that might be where the relationship comes in. But again, totally guessing.

Maybe, but as a counterexample, the one SO in my past that broke up with me over D&D was also bi and quite tomboyish. She may be a statistical outlier, but it does seem to undermine the idea that there is a weak causal relation bettween one or the other.


I'm bi, I'm going to guess complete and utter lack of causation on either end, personally. Small, small, /small/ sample sizes, no matter where we look. I won't be terribly surprised if there's causation on one side or the other (Likely on the side of the gamer though, rather then the hobby), just that I'll take the safer bet :smalltongue:


Well, I wasn't thinking that one or the other was the causation rather that the (appearance of) correlation might indicate that there is some common element which, when present, increases the likleyhood of it being both rather that just one.

I'm just blowing smoke here. As far as I know there is zilch in terms of hard science on this sort of thing.

[Frosty]

I'm bi, I'm going to guess complete and utter lack of causation on either end, personally. Small, small, /small/ sample sizes, no matter where we look. I won't be terribly surprised if there's causation on one side or the other (Likely on the side of the gamer though, rather then the hobby), just that I'll take the safer bet :smalltongue:


Frosty's post

Seconded greatly.

So you are also only playing with a close-knit group of friends?

[Rhuadin]

Female or not, I just wish there were more people willing to play Tabletop RPGs in my area period. It's hard to find a group. Right now the people I play with are all are all high school friends with the exception of one. The one girl I know who is interested in playing has conflicting schedules and is way too busy to play :(
Seconded greatly.

Where do you people live? It seems like whenever I offer to DM a game people come out of the woodwork to try to join, and that's the case for some other DMs that I know (crappy DMs notwithstanding). This was also true when I lived in North Carolina (I remember someone mentioning earlier in this thread that they're in NC and so can't find anyone).

As far as girly girls and tomboyish geek girls go, that's a good point -- maybe that's why I tend to have equally balanced or female biased groups. Ironically enough, the girls in my current group aren't "geeky girls" but are rather girls I met out dancing. I have to admit the cheerleader example I used in my last post wasn't on a lark. I used to do gymnastics and during open gym, cheerleaders would come in to practice and sometimes try to hit on me after seeing me throw a couple tumbling passes. And this was incredibly awkward because my girlfriend was also a gymnast and was practicing with me right there. I'd say that over my time as a DM, I've had about equal demographics of geeky vs girly girls play in my games. The one thing they had in common was that, as DQ and Bait pointed out, they would tend to bring more girls along who wanted to try it out.

[Rutee]

Nah, most of my close friends don't really care for roleplay, or don't care for any established system in doing so (That is, she prefers freeform). Or at least, most of my close friends who are around. I mostly play roleplaying games on the intertubez.

And where I'm at, it sucks to go into a gaming store of any variety without crossdressing heavily and leaving quickly, so the easiest way to 'recruit' as it were, is gone. Though I could probably try the college if I really felt like it.

[Frosty]

Nah, most of my close friends don't really care for roleplay, or don't care for any established system in doing so (That is, she prefers freeform). Or at least, most of my close friends who are around. I mostly play roleplaying games on the intertubez.

And where I'm at, it sucks to go into a gaming store of any variety without crossdressing heavily and leaving quickly, so the easiest way to 'recruit' as it were, is gone. Though I could probably try the college if I really felt like it.

Crossdressing? Are you saying they don't want girls around? :smallfrown:

[Nerd-o-rama]

I do know a disproportionately large number of LBTQ gamer girls, but I always figured that was because I hang out with college-age people. Actually, that makes no sense. Maybe it's an internet culture thing?

Rutee probably means her general experience in gaming stores is that of hygiene-deficient nerds clumsily hitting on her, or at least that's the cliché thing I'd expect to happen.

[AKA_Bait]

Rutee probably means her general experience in gaming stores is that of hygiene-deficient nerds clumsily hitting on her, or at least that's the cliché thing I'd expect to happen.

I would assume that and a few 'what are you doing in the boy's club house' looks.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of gaming stores either. They tend to form their own little lord of the flies type social groups that feel as if their territory is being invaded when someone they don't recognize walks in and starts looking around.

[Rutee]

It's the cliche, yes. It sucks, but it provides amusing stories, and I'm not missing out that much, really. The local gamers that are my age basically suck (The older ones are awesome though), so not dealing with them isn't that bad. Though I haven't tried my college at all, and I really ought to.

[Frosty]

One of my friends works part time in a gaming store. The atmosphere seems friendly enough. Almost all guys, but a few girls are there too, mostly playing Collectible Card Games like Yu-Gi-Oh.

Some of them need a bath, but most of them are ok hygenically actually.

[AKA_Bait]

One of my friends works part time in a gaming store. The atmosphere seems friendly enough. Almost all guys, but a few girls are there too, mostly playing Collectible Card Games like Yu-Gi-Oh.

Some of them need a bath, but most of them are ok hygenically actually.

Maybe it's the area. I have friends who worked in one too and I always felt unwelcome whenever I went there to meet them. I tended to have the same reaction (although not always) in other gaming stores I have been to.

[ashmanonar]

None. Anyone who claims they are a girl and plays is a liar.

Its like videogames.

No, more like the Internet.

There are no girls on the internet.

[Rutee]

Maybe it's the area. I have friends who worked in one too and I always felt unwelcome whenever I went there to meet them. I tended to have the same reaction (although not always) in other gaming stores I have been to.

Oh I'm sure it is. I have a friend up in Canadialand who runs a game store, and if he's at all truthful, it's an awesome place for literally anyone who likes games of any sort. But it doesn't change that I'm stuck here, where it sucks :smallyuk:

[DeathQuaker]

FLGSs vary widely I think depending on the owners, their personal attitudes and their policies. My favorite local shop is pretty welcoming (though I might be biased as I've been going long enough to have quasi-befriended the owners... but I never would have done if I hadn't felt welcome in the first place). I've noticed the owner always tries to make sure one of his regular staff is a woman so people go in and see a woman in charge of stuff, so they know it isn't a guys only club.

One thing is a lot of FLGSs are run by gamers/comic geeks. If they've gone to the Comic Book Guy school of store ownership, all but the hardcore collectors are going to avoid the place like the plague, gender notwithstanding.

If they're truly interested in sharing their hobby with everyone and make an active effort to be welcoming, it'll be a good place to be.

As an aside, one of my FLGSs official rules states you must have showered that day before entering the premises. :smalltongue:

Now, Games Workshop Stores and women, on the other hand.... but that's for another tangential discussion.

[monty]

No, more like the Internet.

There are no girls on the internet.

Yep, that's the internet. Where men are men, women are men, and little kids are FBI agents.

[EvilElitest]

Yep, that's the internet. Where men are men, women are men, and little kids are FBI agents.

You aren't suppose to talk about that. We know where you live.....vaugly
from
EE

[monty]

You aren't suppose to talk about that. We know where you live.....vaugly
from
EE

In a city of almost half a million people, I'm sure I'll be easy to find.

[EvilElitest]

In a city of almost half a million people, I'm sure I'll be easy to find.
trail and error my friend, trail and error, the FBI children squad has used this method many times.

from
EE

[Reinboom]

trail and error my friend, trail and error, the FBI children squad has used this method many times.

from
EE

Trails, things commonly followed by FBI agents in suspicious cases, since, every criminal goes on either a park, forest, or mountain trail for their crimes at least once.
Though, why they would want to keep making errors on trails, I'm unsure of.


I also have this undying suspicion that everyone who plays D&D and is on the internet is actually female, they just don't realize everyone else is, and thus, hides it. :smalltongue:

D&D female players? 99%

[Gralamin]

No, more like the Internet.

There are no girls on the internet.

Obligatory XKCD link (http://xkcd.com/322/).


Trails, things commonly followed by FBI agents in suspicious cases, since, every criminal goes on either a park, forest, or mountain trail for their crimes at least once.
Though, why they would want to keep making errors on trails, I'm unsure of.


I also have this undying suspicion that everyone who plays D&D and is on the internet is actually female, they just don't realize everyone else is, and thus, hides it. :smalltongue:

D&D female players? 99%

I'm actually 100% sure I'm a guy personally, but you have made my paranoia alert run on high...

[Serpentine]

On non...Plain Ol' Ordinary Straight Born-Girls in D&D, I've noticed that on here there seems to be a relatively large number of m-to-f IT-involved transexuals. I'm curious to know whether it's the internet that's disproportionate, this forum, D&D, or maybe a combination of the above... Me? I'm straight but flexible, and happy to be female though if that technology that lets you get into someone else's body for a while that was in that movie became common and safe I'd totally try being male. :smallwink:

I'm starting to think we should do a survey and collate the results (Honours or PhD thesis anyone?):
Were you born male or female?
Do you consider yourself male or female?
Are you interested in D&D?
Would you play D&D?
Have you played D&D?
Do you play D&D?
Repeat the 4 above, but replace "D&D" with "DMing".
How were you introduced to the game?
Have you introduced anyone else to the game?
Were they male or female?
etc.

[Saithis Bladewing]

My outlook on it is this: Male? Female? Flying Two-headed Llama? Who cares, if they're fun to game with and reasonably intelligent, that's good enough for me!

[DeathQuaker]

I'm starting to think we should do a survey and collate the results (Honours or PhD thesis anyone?):
Were you born male or female?
Do you consider yourself male or female?
Are you interested in D&D?
Would you play D&D?
Have you played D&D?
Do you play D&D?
Repeat the 4 above, but replace "D&D" with "DMing".
How were you introduced to the game?
Have you introduced anyone else to the game?
Were they male or female?
etc.

Take it to GenCon and poll people in the dealer's room.

[loopy]

I know a girl in one group I DM, another girl who is about to start playing in a campaign I am playing in, and a third in a solo campaign with my mate.

So... I know
5 male gamers.
3 females.

Not the worst ratio ever.

[Swordguy]

4) You never know, some girl may be walking by while you stand on a chair chastising your battletech players and think you're the cutest thing on two legs (hi honey!). The next thing you know, you're breeding your own gaming group.

:smalleek:

...

:eek:

...

Uh....*waves back*

(I'm pretty sure I was the only person having to stand on a chair to berate stupid BattleTech players at last GenCon...sorry, but I'm married. If you meant someone else, well, no worries. :smallredface: )

[AKA_Bait]

My outlook on it is this: Male? Female? Flying Two-headed Llama? Who cares, if they're fun to game with and reasonably intelligent, that's good enough for me!

Oh, I agree. But it's intelectually interesting to observe the gender disparity and theorize about why it exists.


Take it to GenCon and poll people in the dealer's room.

That's a good idea, but might give a skewed sample. Most of the people I play with don't go to Con's. I've only ever been to two, the same one two years in a row, and then only because it was being held at my college.

[Nerd-o-rama]

On non...Plain Ol' Ordinary Straight Born-Girls in D&D, I've noticed that on here there seems to be a relatively large number of m-to-f IT-involved transexuals. I'm curious to know whether it's the internet that's disproportionate, this forum, D&D, or maybe a combination of the above... Me? I'm straight but flexible, and happy to be female though if that technology that lets you get into someone else's body for a while that was in that movie became common and safe I'd totally try being male. :smallwink:

I'm starting to think we should do a survey and collate the results (Honours or PhD thesis anyone?):
Were you born male or female?
Do you consider yourself male or female?
Are you interested in D&D?
Would you play D&D?
Have you played D&D?
Do you play D&D?
Repeat the 4 above, but replace "D&D" with "DMing".
How were you introduced to the game?
Have you introduced anyone else to the game?
Were they male or female?
etc.It's not just you...actually, I think I'm the one who brought it up. Regardless, I will probably laugh in recognition if I see this poll at GenCon, but I wouldn't recommend asking for answers here. Might skirt peoples' comfort zones.


My outlook on it is this: Male? Female? Flying Two-headed Llama? Who cares, if they're fun to game with and reasonably intelligent, that's good enough for me!My policy (see sig spoiler for details).

[Serpentine]

It's not just you...actually, I think I'm the one who brought it up.Ah, but you hadn't noted that a lot of them are in an IT profession/particularly good with computers :smalltongue:

[Frosty]

Depending on the mothid of sampling, we may have a very skewed representation.

[nerulean]

I know loads of girl gamers! Heck, when I started out playing, there were only two guys in a group of eight. Things have evened out a bit now, and depending on who's free on what days it can be a 50:50 split or four guys to two girls, but yeah, many girls play D&D around here.

[AmberVael]

Most female gamers I know (many) are straight or bi (I'm among the bi). I've never met a gamer who identifies as lesbian, though I'm sure they're out there (some are on this very forum, IIRC).
*waves*
Hi!
:smalltongue:

[DeathQuaker]

That's a good idea, but might give a skewed sample. Most of the people I play with don't go to Con's. I've only ever been to two, the same one two years in a row, and then only because it was being held at my college.

Well, it's only a half-serious suggestion... but on the serious side, the reason I suggested it is it's because you get a huge number of gamers you can question at once (and it's more reliable to take surveys in person than via Internet, where people are more inclined to make stuff up).

And I'd say you'd still probably get a good diversity of people there.

But if we were to do this seriously, I'd say Gen Con is a good place to start, and then have volunteers try to also bring the survey to local game stores and college game clubs to boost up the samples and diversity of locations.

Edit: *waves back at Vael* :smallsmile:

[elliott20]

Sorry you had an unreasonable S.O. -- but best be rid of someone who dumps you for a simple hobby. :smallfrown:

I did want to beg to differ though... I can think of, off the top of my head, at least eight couples (seven of which are happily married) I'm friends with, where the girls were gamers before they met their S.O.s, and in fact the fact that the male partners were gamers was part of what attracted them to them.

I think one thing (VERY generally speaking) though is geek girls are often attracted to geek guys. I've noticed on the other hand there is a large group of male gamers who aren't attracted to geek girls, who tend to have some tomboyish traits, but "girly" girls who are unlikely to be interested in that kind of hobby. Again, however, very generally speaking.

So basically, gamer guys don't find gamer girls because they aren't looking for them, or don't expect girls to be gamers.



Who said it "needed" to exist? The OP asked a simple question, which others have been trying to answer for him. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, the almost flame-war that erupted halfway through this thread and almost derailed it, THAT kind of thing is one of the reasons a lot of girls won't play. Because would-be female gamers will come in touch with negative and misinformed attitudes towards them, think it's representative of a general gaming population, and (understandably) hightail it out of there towards a hobby where they aren't disparaged, harrassed or told they're "not interested" or "it's not for them."

And disparagement, harrassment, and unwelcoming attitudes are exactly WHY a open, reasonable discussion of this SHOULD be taking place--to help encourage open-mindedness and getting rid of the negativity that keeps a certain portion of the population from discovering a hobby that they perhaps would enjoy.



I don't appreciate your apparent disrespect towards the people here who were having an interesting and informative discussion. It's clearly a "big deal" to some, and they have the right to their opinion. How would you like it if you were talking about something you felt was important, and someone just came up and said, "Dude, why do you even care? It's not a big deal." I imagine you'd feel you had just been unreasonably discounted. It's not a nice feeling, is it? So try not to discount other people.

Fair enough. I was just reading some of the earlier comments and had to stop because some of those comments were just very misinformed in my opinion. But also, a lot of the times when I see threads like this (not necessarily here), it turns into a thread where people lament about how there are not enough female gamers out there, and then proceeds to imply that if they DID meet one they would express a romantic interest. It happens enough in some communities that when I see it, I kind of have to approach it carefully.

True, I probably could have been a bit more diplomatic and nicer about what my feeling on this. But I think you can see where I'm coming from. Definitely not my intention to offend anyone in this thread.

[EvilElitest]

Trails, things commonly followed by FBI agents in suspicious cases, since, every criminal goes on either a park, forest, or mountain trail for their crimes at least once.
Though, why they would want to keep making errors on trails, I'm unsure of.

I said stop talking about it, we have a general idea where you live. We can search the entire northern hemisphere all day you know.



I also have this undying suspicion that everyone who plays D&D and is on the internet is actually female, they just don't realize everyone else is, and thus, hides it. :smalltongue:

D&D female players? 99%
......., ok you caught us, this is how the 1% stay in power
from
EE