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metalbear
2008-04-20, 03:42 PM
I was just thinking about how the Lord of the Rings gives some advice on gaming. For instance, Sam's fixation with having some good rope. What other bits of gaming wisdom has the playground has picked up from reading fantasy stories.

Nikolai_II
2008-04-20, 03:54 PM
Donkeys/ponys make good pack animals, but are not for dungeon crawling. ;)

Hmm.. battle scenes should be run as a small but vital combats, not as endless grunt-fights. (Nazguls, not orcs) :smallcool:

Elves are ponces that live in trees? :smalltongue:

Corlis
2008-04-20, 04:05 PM
Don't kill the NPC the DM put into the party; he's there for a reason (Gollum)
Don't neglect your Will save (Isildur, Boromir, and Gollum are negative examples of this, and Frodo, Gandalf, and Aragorn are positive ones)
Never let the Halfling flank you (The Witch King)
Find out if the DM is going to be a stickler for travelling supplies, and if so, stock up on trail rations (Lembas)

UglyPanda
2008-04-20, 04:08 PM
DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=14). The annotations are useful in teaching you what not to do as a DM.

Lord Tataraus
2008-04-20, 04:19 PM
When starting off on a journey to destroy a magical artifact by throwing it into a volcano, ask the eagles to fly you there (with fighter escort) in about a day or two, drop it in then go to Minas Tirith for a pint to celebrate.

I meant seriously, the eagles are friends with Gandalf and the elves, they don't want Sauron to win. Plus they have their own army and the only anti-air Sauron has are the fell-drakes and archers. You only need like two eagles per drake and if you fly high enough you don't need to worry about archers, though you could always get some elven archers to be carried by the eagles for some added defense. Its flawless considering there is no way Sauron would find out especially if Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (maybe some other wizards as well) focused their efforts to conceal the eagle invasion. Of course that makes for a short story and not as heroic...

shadow_archmagi
2008-04-20, 04:37 PM
When starting off on a journey to destroy a magical artifact by throwing it into a volcano, ask the eagles to fly you there (with fighter escort) in about a day or two, drop it in then go to Minas Tirith for a pint to celebrate.

I meant seriously, the eagles are friends with Gandalf and the elves, they don't want Sauron to win. Plus they have their own army and the only anti-air Sauron has are the fell-drakes and archers. You only need like two eagles per drake and if you fly high enough you don't need to worry about archers, though you could always get some elven archers to be carried by the eagles for some added defense. Its flawless considering there is no way Sauron would find out especially if Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (maybe some other wizards as well) focused their efforts to conceal the eagle invasion. Of course that makes for a short story and not as heroic...

Of course, thats assuming their powers work in orc territory. Probably mordor is so blighted they can't use magic. Then we have Sauron's Eye to contend with. So essentially, your saying that while being attacked by nine near invincible warriors on dragons and having archers shooting at them, these eagles are going to fly from the edge of mordor to Mt. Doom. All of this while being blasted by whatever magic Sauron can muster.

So the question is... just how many arrows can an eagle survive, how fast does an eagle go, how far does it have to go, and what precisely can Sauron do to a flier?

shadow_archmagi
2008-04-20, 04:39 PM
Movie wisdom: Throw explosives into the hole. If a dwarf or something were living in a cave, he'd have built a door. No door=evil. Of course, sometimes evil people have doors, but anyone without a door IS evil.

Eldariel
2008-04-20, 04:40 PM
Never expect your quest is over until the last session is played. Even after vanquishing the elder evil, your hometown may be overrun by the Zerg...err, Orcs, and you need to save the entire city with your paragon level powers.

Also, don't throw rocks into lakes, wells or anything else unless you have a very good reason - and no, being bored or ADD doesn't qualify.

Finally, if you're a demigod of some sort, die once, preferably fighting an evil being of incredible power and vanquishing it while at it - you'll come back even stronger.

Lord Tataraus
2008-04-20, 04:59 PM
Of course, thats assuming their powers work in orc territory. Probably mordor is so blighted they can't use magic. Then we have Sauron's Eye to contend with. So essentially, your saying that while being attacked by nine near invincible warriors on dragons and having archers shooting at them, these eagles are going to fly from the edge of mordor to Mt. Doom. All of this while being blasted by whatever magic Sauron can muster.

So the question is... just how many arrows can an eagle survive, how fast does an eagle go, how far does it have to go, and what precisely can Sauron do to a flier?

Well, your only counting on the concealment up to Mordor, then they are bound to see you anyway. Basically the concealment (note it is basically concealment to Sauron's scrying) is so you only have to worry about being attacked in Mordor. In the final battle at the Black Gates about two or three eagles could take care of a fell drake, you ignore the Nazgul since once their mount is down they are no threat and their mount is easier to kill. You'll also be too high for any archers to hit you until you reach Mount Doom and they don't station archer's there so its not much of a threat and the distance isn't that bad for flying (assuming they go the shorter route by crossing the western mountains and heading directly east). The eagles flew in to save Sam and Frodo from the erupting volcano which means they must have flown to Mt. Doom and back within a few hours, so they can fly pretty fast. As for Sauron's magic, it seems he can't do anything but scry and then tell his Nazgul and armies to go somewhere to kill stuff, so that's not much of a threat.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-04-20, 05:11 PM
Well, your only counting on the concealment up to Mordor, then they are bound to see you anyway. Basically the concealment (note it is basically concealment to Sauron's scrying) is so you only have to worry about being attacked in Mordor. In the final battle at the Black Gates about two or three eagles could take care of a fell drake, you ignore the Nazgul since once their mount is down they are no threat and their mount is easier to kill. You'll also be too high for any archers to hit you until you reach Mount Doom and they don't station archer's there so its not much of a threat and the distance isn't that bad for flying (assuming they go the shorter route by crossing the western mountains and heading directly east). The eagles flew in to save Sam and Frodo from the erupting volcano which means they must have flown to Mt. Doom and back within a few hours, so they can fly pretty fast. As for Sauron's magic, it seems he can't do anything but scry and then tell his Nazgul and armies to go somewhere to kill stuff, so that's not much of a threat.

Backup plan:build a catapault.

Oslecamo
2008-04-20, 05:25 PM
Eagles stop being a good plan when you realize they can't fly 3 days whitout rest carrying people, and all the good landing/rest places are infested by orcs.

Not to mention the air of Mordor is anything but healthy. Birds don't like toxic vulcanic smoke wich doesn't let them breath properly, and Mordor is pretty big.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-04-20, 05:35 PM
Eagles stop being a good plan when you realize they can't fly 3 days whitout rest carrying people, and all the good landing/rest places are infested by orcs.

Not to mention the air of Mordor is anything but healthy. Birds don't like toxic vulcanic smoke wich doesn't let them breath properly, and Mordor is pretty big.

Except that ... that's what they did.

GrassyGnoll
2008-04-20, 05:47 PM
Backup plan:build a catapault.

Something that small is really hard to trajectorize.

Never piss off elemental guardians of the forest

Ranks in Hide are always useful

Goblins exist solely for slaughter

When the cave rumbles it isn't an earthquake, it's something worse

shadow_archmagi
2008-04-20, 05:58 PM
Except that ... that's what they did.

1. The rescue occured after a fade-out. It could've been a long time before the eagles arrived. Not too long, given the lava, but then again, it could've been hours. Also, during the battle of the black gate, thats where ALL THE ORCS ARE. You don't have to worry about gaurds because of the distraction.

Overlord
2008-04-20, 09:44 PM
DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=14). The annotations are useful in teaching you what not to do as a DM.

Seconded! Not only are those strips comedic gold, but many offer useful tidbits of advice, both for players and for DMs.

For example, take these (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=922) two (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=931) strips.

Advice:

Players: If someone tries to make you give them your weapons, they're usually doing it because they want a better shot at killing you.

DMs: Don't put your players into a situation like that and expect them to just give up their stuff. You'd better give them a good incentive to do so, and be prepared when they sneak their weapons in anyway.

EvilElitest
2008-04-20, 09:46 PM
When starting off on a journey to destroy a magical artifact by throwing it into a volcano, ask the eagles to fly you there (with fighter escort) in about a day or two, drop it in then go to Minas Tirith for a pint to celebrate.

I meant seriously, the eagles are friends with Gandalf and the elves, they don't want Sauron to win. Plus they have their own army and the only anti-air Sauron has are the fell-drakes and archers. You only need like two eagles per drake and if you fly high enough you don't need to worry about archers, though you could always get some elven archers to be carried by the eagles for some added defense. Its flawless considering there is no way Sauron would find out especially if Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (maybe some other wizards as well) focused their efforts to conceal the eagle invasion. Of course that makes for a short story and not as heroic...

actually Sauron had more air units in the books and the Nazgul alone were nigh unbeatable (not quite but still)
Also Sauron would notice them, the eye remember
from
EE

Lord Tataraus
2008-04-20, 09:48 PM
actually Sauron had more air units in the books and the Nazgul alone were nigh unbeatable (not quite but still)
Also Sauron would notice them, the eye remember
from
EE

I really need to reread the books, its been too long...anyway, as I said before, the point is for the eagles to take down the mounts of the nazgul, not attack the nazgul directly since that is near impossible.

TehJhu
2008-04-20, 09:49 PM
When starting off on a journey to destroy a magical artifact by throwing it into a volcano, ask the eagles to fly you there (with fighter escort) in about a day or two, drop it in then go to Minas Tirith for a pint to celebrate.

I meant seriously, the eagles are friends with Gandalf and the elves, they don't want Sauron to win. Plus they have their own army and the only anti-air Sauron has are the fell-drakes and archers. You only need like two eagles per drake and if you fly high enough you don't need to worry about archers, though you could always get some elven archers to be carried by the eagles for some added defense. Its flawless considering there is no way Sauron would find out especially if Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (maybe some other wizards as well) focused their efforts to conceal the eagle invasion. Of course that makes for a short story and not as heroic...

Like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU)

EvilElitest
2008-04-20, 09:53 PM
I really need to reread the books, its been too long...anyway, as I said before, the point is for the eagles to take down the mounts of the nazgul, not attack the nazgul directly since that is near impossible.

In the movie your logic makes sense, in the book no

By the by, the eagles didn't attack the nazgul, they were dead by the time they got there
from
EE

Hal
2008-04-20, 10:05 PM
Expect your DM to saddle you with a fancy NPC who destroys ancient evils and moves the plot forward at every step. Also, he gets all the experience.

Serenity
2008-04-20, 10:26 PM
There's one solid reason why the Eagle thing is a stupid idea: What happens when the Eagle carrying Frodo fails his will save against the Ring's corruption? He does a barrel roll, or opens his claws, and suddenly there's a Ringbearing smear on the ground in the middle of enemy territory.

skywalker
2008-04-20, 10:57 PM
One thing I learned from Lord of the Rings:

Don't underestimate treants.

JeminiZero
2008-04-21, 06:06 AM
Backup plan:build a catapault.

Backup-Backup Plan: Have an army of Gestalt Ninja-Wizards

Kizara
2008-04-21, 06:25 AM
Backup-Backup Plan: Have an army of Gestalt Ninja-Wizards

If that's valid, I'm going with a single high level druid. Pretty sure shapechange solves everything.

Serenity
2008-04-21, 06:45 AM
Well you do need one to supplement the army of ninja wizards with one of those...provided that it can assume bear form, and finds a spell that lets it shoot lasers from its eyes.

Eldariel
2008-04-21, 08:17 AM
If that's valid, I'm going with a single high level druid. Pretty sure shapechange solves everything.

No. Behold:
http://www.kevinhowlett.com/other/mordor-vi.gif

Lord Tataraus
2008-04-21, 09:03 AM
No. Behold:

Epic, and true!

Now about Saruman supposedly using magic on Caradhras (or weather control for that matter), he doesn't even use any in the movie. The problem is that they don't translate what Saruman is actually saying so most people think he is casting a spell or something. The phrase "Nai yarvaxŽa rasselya taltuva notto-carinnar!" means "May your bloodstained horn collapse upon enemy heads!". Saruman is only egging the mountain on.

Ascension
2008-04-21, 12:29 PM
The problem with an army of ninja-anythings is that they'll fall prey to the law of inverse ninja effectiveness. You need a single ninja-wizard.

MorkaisChosen
2008-04-21, 12:40 PM
Epic, and true!

Now about Saruman supposedly using magic on Caradhras (or weather control for that matter), he doesn't even use any in the movie. The problem is that they don't translate what Saruman is actually saying so most people think he is casting a spell or something. The phrase "Nai yarvaxŽa rasselya taltuva notto-carinnar!" means "May your bloodstained horn collapse upon enemy heads!". Saruman is only egging the mountain on.

Sometimes that's how magic works, though- egging on natural stuff to happen faster.

Also, essential wisdom:

Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

And Batman.

Telonius
2008-04-21, 12:45 PM
Now there's an interesting question. Is the Inverse Ninja law a dominant or a recessive trait of the Ninja?

Telonius
2008-04-21, 12:46 PM
Well you do need one to supplement the army of ninja wizards with one of those...provided that it can assume bear form, and finds a spell that lets it shoot lasers from its eyes.

You already have a druid. Beorn. Get him to shoot laser beams from his eyes, and you're all set.