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View Full Version : Give me a viable CW Samurai build



Tengu
2008-04-20, 08:02 PM
Just what's in the thread's title. Rules:
1. Level 20 build, standard WBL, 32 point buy.
2. Most of your base class levels must be taken in the Samurai class.
3. The build must make use of something only the Samurai can do - there must be a reason why are you taking levels in this class and not any other.
4. It doesn't have to be Batman-level broken, but it should be as powergamery as possible.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-20, 08:08 PM
Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10//Samurai 20

Reason I took Samurai: don't want to be Batman-level broken. :smallwink:

Hey, you never said we couldn't Gestalt.

Tengu
2008-04-20, 08:11 PM
The only reason I'm not sighing at the "you never said X is not allowed, so it is allowed!" mentality that DND is full of is because I know you weren't serious.

Okay, no gestalt.

Eldariel
2008-04-20, 08:12 PM
Basically, the class half-decent for intimidating as it has some unique related abilities. So:
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-555304

Add Imperious Command (Drow of the Underdark) and Never Outnumbered Skill Trick (Complete Scoundrel) and that's about as good as you get.

UglyPanda
2008-04-20, 08:17 PM
3. The build must make use of something only the Samurai can do - there must be a reason why are you taking levels in this class and not any other.

Other than the bonus feats (Which could have been acquired through ranger or fighter levels), all you've got is enhancements to intimidate and Kiai Shout (Which is the poor man's smite).
All you can do with that restriction is look for things that stack fear effects so that you can keep making opponents panic.

Renegade Paladin
2008-04-20, 08:18 PM
There is nothing the samurai can do that no one else can, though. Kiai smite? Destruction domain/paladin levels. Staredown? Skill Focus (Intimidate). TWF without prerequisites? Ranger. Frightful presence as the capstone? I'm sure there's a way to get it earlier through some PrC or other. The higher level staredown abilities? Fighter with Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels; it gets them earlier and better. (Free action demoralize, anyone? Also, it gives the aforementioned Skill Focus for free.) The fancy ability names on the chart that really only signify a feat? Fighter levels. Take the feat.

Seriously. The class is absolutely worthless.

Solo
2008-04-20, 08:21 PM
Samurai 20 with max ranks in UMD.

What?

Xefas
2008-04-20, 08:22 PM
Frightful presence as the capstone? I'm sure there's a way to get it earlier through some PrC or other.

You can get Frightful Presence from a feat called Frightful Presence. It's prereqs are Cha 15 and Intimidate 9 Ranks.

So, the Samurai gets a capstone ability that's actually a 6th level feat.

MammonAzrael
2008-04-20, 08:25 PM
Has anyone tried to make a "fixed" Samurai?

Eldariel
2008-04-20, 08:26 PM
The only unique thing is indeed Staredown and Mass, so therefore you must take it for enough levels to get the nameless extra +4 to Intimidate, and the ability to do Never Outnumbered at will. Although it's worth noting that TWF without Dex in this case allows you to wear heavy armor unlike Ranger's class feature, so you don't need to fool around to get an armor to match your Dex; wear Mechanus Gear and be happy. That's somewhat mitigated by the fact that he gets the TWF feats 5 levels late though.

But seriously, the link I gave is the best you'll get. The class is really pushed to its limits (given, which isn't much) there. Crazy those Char Op guys.


Mammon: WoTC did. Well, they had a fixed Samurai before they printed the CW version. It's in Oriental Adventures.

Tengu
2008-04-20, 08:27 PM
Samurai from the 3.0 book Oriental Adventures (which is basically a ripoff of Legend of the Five Rings, by the way) is a decent class.

And if the challenge turns out to be too tough, remove point number 3. But it's appreciated if you include it anyway.

Talya
2008-04-20, 08:27 PM
Has anyone tried to make a "fixed" Samurai?

Why bother? The one in Oriental Adventures is fine for any setting that you'd allow the one from CWar in, as far as melee characters go.


Edit: Ninja'd!

TheOOB
2008-04-20, 08:28 PM
Aside from a small initiative boost, the samurai gets absolutely nothing that makes them a better fighter then any other melee class. Two-Weapon fighting without a source of bonus damage acually make your character worse(you end up with the same average damage(or less) then a two handed weapon, but with a -2 penalty to attacks. The intimidate abilities require you to spend actions on intimidating, which is virtually always inferior to attacking. Even the kiai smite ability is horrible, it forces you to spend resources on an attribute that would be better spent on anything else. Sure you could start with a 14 cha and buy a cloak of cha to get a pretty decent smite, but you can't possibly say that it wouldn't be better to put those attribute points into strength and use the cloak slot for a cloak of resistance or displacement or something.

There are only two ways a samurai can beat a fighter of equal level. Either the samurai rolls all 20's and the fighter rolls all 1's, or the samurai finds some broken overpowered magic item that the fighter doesn't have...not that there isn't an equal chance the fighter would find such a broken overpowered magic item.

Keep in mind, we're talking about the fighter here as well, a class so weak they made an entire book dedicated to fixing so people wouldn't have to play fighters any more.

Dode
2008-04-20, 08:29 PM
Samurai 20 with max ranks in UMD.

What? It optimizes the Samurai class' natural strengths, good work Solo.

Also, OP doesn't seem to believe that there is such a thing as an unsalvageable class. Well guess what, there is and it is the Samurai.

Tengu
2008-04-20, 08:33 PM
I know that CW Samurai sucks bum. I just want to see how much can you optimize out of it.

A good level 1 trick might be "sell your daisho, buy magebred hounds". But that's everything I can come up with myself, apart from ubercharger builds that come out better as Barbarians.

Ascension
2008-04-20, 08:46 PM
In another thread somebody posted some minor tricks for optimizing the samurai's intimidation abilities. It still sucks, but at least people are (somehow) afraid of it.

I do find it amusing that the single strength of the weakest PC class in the game is intimidation. No one who had any idea what the samurai's class abilities are would ever be afraid of one.

Eldariel
2008-04-20, 08:49 PM
Samurai 14/Incarnum Anything 6 - get Resounding Blow (BoED), Imperious Command (DoTU), Fearsome and Fearless (Oriental Adventures), Dreadful Wrath (PGtF) and focus on damage-inflicting Soulmelds. Be of race with inherent Essentia, and one may actually have to burn feats to learning some of the melds early (as you need Samurai 14 ASAP), pick up Sunblade as your Wakazashi to Power Attack with both weapons, get Flay Foe and focus your Essentia into soulmelds that increase your damage, along with the Fearsome Mask.

That allows you to get a bunch of stacking fear effects so everything that's affected by fear should be cowering soon, and you can make a decent TWF imitation with the ability to Power Attack with both weapons. If you get those Slippers of Battledancing (DMGII), and pick up Pounce, such as through taking a level in Barbarian, you can stick to 15 Str, going Cha SAD. Of course, you need some Int and you'll also be the party face. And no, I'm not going to make a level breakdown; I've already wasted enough time on this.

EvilElitest
2008-04-20, 08:52 PM
Samurai 20 with max ranks in UMD.

What?

.............there is no god



Didn't somebody do an essay on how samerais were the best class ever as a joke? it was very good
from
EE

Edit
Also Tengu is think OA isn't a rip off of Legend of Five rings, it is pretty much the D&d version of it.

quiet1mi
2008-04-20, 08:59 PM
I always thought of the samurai as a fighter variant (like the thug)....

however somethings i did like was iaajitsu focus in OA

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-20, 09:03 PM
I do find it amusing that the single strength of the weakest PC class in the game is intimidation. No one who had any idea what the samurai's class abilities are would ever be afraid of one."He succeeds on the intimidate DC and you are now shaken"

"I'd like to make an Int check"

"...Why?"

"To realize that's a Samurai and ignore it"

EvilElitest
2008-04-20, 09:04 PM
"He succeeds on the intimidate DC and you are now shaken"

"I'd like to make an Int check"

"...Why?"

"To realize that's a Samurai and ignore it"

i'd allow that
from
EE

Starbuck_II
2008-04-20, 09:14 PM
i'd allow that
from
EE

To be fair, shouldn't you have to another Int Check or your brain to implodes: Someone's actually play one!

Kurald Galain
2008-04-21, 02:16 AM
Didn't somebody do an essay on how samerais were the best class ever as a joke? it was very good

Thank you, that would be me. The link is in my sig.

Citizen Jenkins
2008-04-21, 05:36 AM
Well, your best bet is to take 12 levels of Samurai then swap over to Ronin (same book), leaving you with Samurai 2/Ronin 10. The Ronin class isn't awesome but it is a full BAB class that picks up 4d6 sneak attack, which isn't bad. From there cross class a few skills and take 5 levels of Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel) which gives you +3d6 in Sudden Strike and some cool intimidation abilities. From there take 3 levels in Assassin or some other sneak attack boosting PrC for about 9d6 sneak/sudden damage altogether.

While it can probably be cleaned up, the key idea is that you can jump out of the Samurai class and take levels in the perfectly acceptable Ronin PrC. You know, in case you ever wanted to play a heavily armored dual-wielding character with Sneak attacks.

And as an RP concept it works fairly well for the "honorable man experiences tragedy and descends into madness" concept.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-21, 05:40 AM
hmm, I played an awesome CW Samurai from 7-16 once, but he was mostly awesome because a)most experienced gamer in group was mwah, b)rolled 50-something pt. buy equivalent stats, c) lowest hp roll was a 7

a) and b) were part of the reason I played a CW samurai

Kantolin
2008-04-21, 06:22 AM
Um... hm. Let me try to reason out a possible idea.

Okay, Kiai Smite says 'Your next attack'. To compare, paladins and the destruction domain both state 'Your next melee attack'.

So I guess you could putz around as an archer Samurai, with the gaping flaw that you don't really get anything else to help your archery in the class.

Then hm. The CW Samurai itself suggests to use Knight Protector, so let's glance there. Retributive strike also doesn't say anything about melee attacks, and it lets you pick up the ability to make your staredown... work a little better... once a day.

Man.

Anyway, so that's retributive strike mixing with Kiai smite. Both of these only work with one critical shot.

So that's something - you can be a CW Samurai playing at being a sniper - not exactly a useful niche, but you're playing a CW Samurai. So to continue that microniche, we have order of the bow initiate in the same book.

So, even though it doesn't quite fulfill the requirements (due to not having mostly CW Samurai levels), here's an amusing build:

CW Samurai 5 / Order of the Bow Initiate 5 / Knight Protector 10

That nets you Ranged Precision 3d8 from OOTBI, then +Charisma to hit and +10 damage from KP, then... um. +Charisma to hit and +Charisma to damage.

For a rather lackluster total of Charisma * 2 bonus to hit, and 3d8 + 10 + Charisma bonus to damage, provided the enemy makes one of your allies helpless/unconscious/dead.

Pah, I don't know how much better you can get as a ranged smiter, but this does have a mildly amusing sniper feel to it - and it utilizes kiai shout in some way.

Kiai shout which never improves (At least, not with Samurai levels), or it'd encourage you to take more levels of the class to get it more potently.

After taking that perfect shot, you can, um. Drop the bow, take out your katana that you've been holding onto, and smack someone with it.

So... well, there. A rogue can get that sniper shot for more damage, but it requires the enemy to be flat-footed. A ranger can also do so, but it requires the enemy to be his favored enemy.

So pah. I tried. :P

CASTLEMIKE
2008-04-21, 04:02 PM
Well, your best bet is to take 12 levels of Samurai then swap over to Ronin (same book), leaving you with Samurai 2/Ronin 10. The Ronin class isn't awesome but it is a full BAB class that picks up 4d6 sneak attack, which isn't bad. From there cross class a few skills and take 5 levels of Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel) which gives you +3d6 in Sudden Strike and some cool intimidation abilities. From there take 3 levels in Assassin or some other sneak attack boosting PrC for about 9d6 sneak/sudden damage altogether.


Great post.


Maximizing Diplomacy since it is a class skill. A level dip into Marshal for the Skill Focus Diplomacy and a Minor Aura Motivate Charisma with a Charisma of 14+ with Charisma enhancing magic items would be a good move for interacting with NPCs.

Mish mash: Variant Psychic Rogue -2(Rogue -1 with a Ring of Evasion and Marshal - 1 probably better), (Ninja or Scout -3 with Scout or Ninja -1), Monk -1, Tattooed Monk - 1 if the PC doesn't want to go the assassin route with the Ascetic Rogue feat and an additional +4D6 mix of Sneak Attack, Skirmish and Sudden Strike....

Warmind PRC - 10 probably a good choice. Taking Hidden Talent at first level for Charm Psionic or Vigor would be strong. It would also qualify the PC for going Warmind PRC later. Chain of Overwhelming Force (SU +10D6 to a single attack 1/day) might be worth dropping Samauri/Ronin mix down to 9 levels, Marshal -1, Warmind -10 gets the PC several more powers and 70 base power points for the purposes of the thread.

The Oriental Adventures Samauri class receives the Iajutsu Skill Focus if allowed could be interesting as a cross class skill.

The Spellfire Wielder feat from Magic of Faerun feat does a lot for the PC attacking and some minor healing.

Leadership for a sidekick and followers as a member of the nobility perferably a full caster 2 levels lower.

Treating the Samauri class as a Fighter and applying the "Thug" variant could do a lot for the class.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug

+0 LA Planetouched Aasimar with 5 base 14s and a single 10 before racial bonus and leveling bonus.

Formerly a LN or LG Planetouched Aasimar St 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 21, Char 16

Marshal -1, Samuri - 11*, Warmind - 8 (*converted to Samuri -1, Ronin -10)

The PC was originally a minor officer who was elevated to the nobility after distinguishing himself in combat. After successfully advancing among the nobility as a honorable warrior he fell due to a court intrigue and became a masterless warrior. Doesn't work if multiclassing penalty is used.

In other reality the PC survived the intrigue:
Marshal -1, Samuri - 3, Warmind - 10, Samuri +6.

Human Factotum - 3, Marshal -1, Samuri - 16 or (Samuri -6, Ronin - 10)
St 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 10, Char 14 don't forget to maximize the Diplomacy, Iajutsu class skills (Iajutsu skill from Oriental Adventures) and UMD. Extra Fonts of Inspiration feats.

760,000 gp is a lot of wealth and some of it is really campaign dependent. Some generally useful gear:

Antimagic torc 1/day for 25,000 gp even with Transparency it can be nice to have against full casters mostly depends on the campaign but just having it can result in fewer BBEG casters.

Belt of Battle 12,000 gp. Extra actions.

Magic boots of some sort. Boots of Striding and Springing only cost 5,500 gp and increase your base movement +10 with that +5 to jump checks.

Stat increasing and boosting items.

Candle of Invocation or two for emergencies if permitted.

Heward's Handy Haversack for some potions and other disposable magic or psionic items to facilitate quick usage in game.

Portable hole for your serious wealth (Determine how the multiple dimensional space items and magic interact in your campaign).

Two or more magic rings (Extra Ring feat) to fit the PC concept and normal campaign challenges. Blinking and Evasion could be nice for BBEGs. Counterspells and Invisibility could be nice. Protection.

Cloak of Displacement.

Bag of Tricks Gray for trap triggering. Tan for delaying higer level creatures and making them expend actions.

Armor, weapons and other items to personal and campaign taste.