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Admiral Squish
2008-04-21, 12:45 AM
Deciding to give it it's fair shake, I've rolled a scout recently. Lots of flavor, nice character, but I'm not entirely sure on the mechanics of skirmish. IT says 'in any round you move more than ten feet' you get the bonus, but does that mean it just applies to your turn, or could it apply to AoOs, as well? Would I get the bonus damage if I was riding a mount? It says it doesn't work if you've been bullrushed, but a mount isn't the same thing, is it? Does flying count? Does Falling count? Does it apply to ray spells? Are there any good scout PrCs I don't know of?

FlyMolo
2008-04-21, 12:47 AM
Deciding to give it it's fair shake, I've rolled a scout recently. Lots of flavor, nice character, but I'm not entirely sure on the mechanics of skirmish. IT says 'in any round you move more than ten feet' you get the bonus, but does that mean it just applies to your turn, or could it apply to AoOs, as well? Would I get the bonus damage if I was riding a mount? It says it doesn't work if you've been bullrushed, but a mount isn't the same thing, is it? Does flying count? Does Falling count? Does it apply to ray spells? Are there any good scout PrCs I don't know of?

AoO's as well (see PA), yes, no, yes, yes, yes, not off the top of my head.

dyslexicfaser
2008-04-21, 01:03 AM
Highland Stalker is the only Scout PrC I know of, and Scout/Ranger with that something-or-other Tracker feat is generally considered to be better.

Rad
2008-04-21, 01:36 AM
You cannot use skirmish mounted; any other movement form is fine.
An archer Ranger 16/Scout 4 with the Swift Hunter feat from Complete scoundrel is considered the best skirmish build. Also consider the Imporved Manyshot feat (SRD, Psionics handbook [but it's not a psionic feat]) which allows you to full attack with a bow with a standard action. Travel devotion (Complete champion) will allow you to move as a swift action for one encounter (actually 10 consecutive rounds) per day.
If you pull either trick, Improved Skirmish (Complete Scoundrel) is a must too.

Dode
2008-04-21, 01:46 AM
Be sure to take a level dip in Warblade so you get access to that Swift Jump manuever.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-21, 01:50 AM
The reason I'm not doing ranger, is because archery and related feats are useless to me at the moment, as are TWF. My current build revolves around being a Drow, the Drow Scorpion Chain and the Xen'dirk Boomerang, along with the Drow Skirmisher Feat. Also, I'd be eating an XP penalty, three utterly useless levels, and the Bonus Feats make up the deficit I suffer due to my race.

Darrin
2008-04-21, 08:33 AM
The reason I'm not doing ranger, is because archery and related feats are useless to me at the moment, as are TWF. My current build revolves around being a Drow, the Drow Scorpion Chain and the Xen'dirk Boomerang, along with the Drow Skirmisher Feat. Also, I'd be eating an XP penalty, three utterly useless levels, and the Bonus Feats make up the deficit I suffer due to my race.

Use a variant Ranger combat style (Dragon #326) to pick up a different feat. Strong-Arm style, for example, gives you Power Attack, which should work well with the Drow Scorpion Chain.

For XP penalty, use a racial template from Dragon #306 (LA +0) to change your favored class to ranger. The Desert or Wild template would do this, although the "Drow" part might be difficult to explain fluff-wise.

Other ways to advance skirmish damage: 4 levels of Dragon Devotee increases your sneak/skirmish/sudden strike damage by +2d6, and gives you a level of Sorcerer, which you can use to go into Unseen Seer, which for another 4 levels can increase your sneak/skirmish/sudden strike damage by another +2d6.

A Scout 4/Ranger 6/Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4/Highland Stalker 2 build can get skirmish up to 8d6, or 10d6 with Improved Skirmish. 17 BAB, 2nd level Sorcerer spells, and a pretty good skillmonkey as well.

Wraithy
2008-04-21, 10:49 AM
Another important thing is the Errata to skirmish. you have to end up 10ft away from where you started, so no 5ft back 5ft forward silliness.

Starbuck_II
2008-04-21, 10:58 AM
Deciding to give it it's fair shake, I've rolled a scout recently. Lots of flavor, nice character, but I'm not entirely sure on the mechanics of skirmish. IT says 'in any round you move more than ten feet' you get the bonus, but does that mean it just applies to your turn, or could it apply to AoOs, as well? Would I get the bonus damage if I was riding a mount? It says it doesn't work if you've been bullrushed, but a mount isn't the same thing, is it? Does flying count? Does Falling count? Does it apply to ray spells? Are there any good scout PrCs I don't know of?

The Errata made so you move by your own ability: a Mount is not you so no skirmish.

Bullrush isn't you.

Flying counts because you are flying. Falling only counts if you jumped down.

Yes, just like sneak attack, you can skirmish rays.

Person_Man
2008-04-21, 11:28 AM
IT says 'in any round you move more than ten feet' you get the bonus, but does that mean it just applies to your turn, or could it apply to AoOs, as well?

From the Skirmish description:
"She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The extra damage applies only to attacks taken during the scout's turn." So by RAW it doesn't normally apply to AoO or other attacks that occur during other players' or enemies' turns. But most DMs I know allow it anyway.



Would I get the bonus damage if I was riding a mount?

No. It's in the errata.



Does flying count?

Yes. Scouts will commonly be dragonborn or raptorian or dragonwraught kobolds in order to get wings and take Flyby Attack and Greater Manyshot.



Does Falling count?

DM call. I'd say no if its involuntary movement.



Does it apply to ray spells?

Yes. It applies to all attack rolls, including touch attack rolls, that otherwise qualify given the restrictions of Precision Damage.



Are there any good scout PrCs I don't know of?

Not in my opinion. Scout/Ranger with the Swift Hunter feat (Complete Scoundrel) is ok.


FYI, Skirmish is a very poor source of bonus damage. It scales slower then Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, Power Attack, spells, psionics, Tome of Battle maneuvers, etc. If you want to play a Scout, play a Scout. My favorite PC of all time was a strait Scout, and I had a blast. But don't do it because you think Skirmish is a good idea.

weenie
2008-04-21, 03:12 PM
The Dervish is a good PrC for Scouts. You get to make full attacks while moving at your normal speed(among other things) which makes your skirmish a bit more effective. Oh, and you can make whirlwind attacks while moving too, thus hitting every opponent you get in reach at full BaB. Can't believe I was the first one to mention this. :smallsmile:

UserClone
2008-04-21, 04:53 PM
I had a DM once who ruled that, in order to get skirmish damage, our Centaur Scout would have to move in such a ways there would be at least ten feet of space between where his mini ended to where it started after his movement - in other words, if he hiked left, he would have to move 20 feet to get skirmish damage, because that would put the right edge of his mini 10 ft. from where the left edge of it had been before. I was like, "Buh?!? How the hells is he supposed to accomplish this indoors, ever?!?"

AwfulLawful
2008-04-21, 06:35 PM
Straight scout is the way to go - I did it once and it was great fun.
Try using a longspear, and make sure you take the feats spring attack and combat reflexes. Then you'll dance around your enemies and beat them up with your AoOs :smalltongue:

Otherwise go for leap attack and charge away :smallwink:

Ascension
2008-04-21, 08:00 PM
No, no, you want Scout/Rogue with the Swift Ambusher feat. That's a potential 15d6 bonus precision damage at 20th level! 15d6s. Plus your spiked chain's dice. Think of all the dice! (Disclaimer: I typed this before I remembered your LA. Sorry.)

I like to build to maximize the number of dice rolled. When you roll a ton, you've got to roll well on some of them!

...though if your DM is enforcing the multiclassing penalties, it still wouldn't be a good idea. Darn.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-21, 08:38 PM
So, here's the feats so far:

Drow Skirmisher
Combat Reflexes
Quick Draw
Weapon Finesse
----------------- Here's the speculation line.
6th: Improved Skirmish
8th: Dodge
9th: Mobility
12th (Scout): Spring attack
12th: Travel Devotion
15th: Boomerang Ricochet
16th: Combat Expertise
18th: Improved Trip
20th: Whirlwind Attack

Though relly, I have no idea what I'm going. Talk me out of it if there's something stupid on that.

Ascension
2008-04-21, 08:46 PM
Two things...

First, where are you getting the turn attempts for Travel Devotion?

Second, while I personally love it (even more d6s!), a lot of people don't really like Improved Skirmish because it's slightly easier to find ways to move ten feet and make a full attack than it is to find ways to move twenty and make a full attack. Your mileage may vary.

I find that scouts are best at low level, before the other party members get many iterative attacks. When they get a bunch of iterative attacks, you start progressively looking worse. Still, so many d6s!

RTGoodman
2008-04-21, 09:06 PM
First, where are you getting the turn attempts for Travel Devotion?

I don't have my copy of Complete Champion on me, but I believe you can take and use any of the Domain Devotion feats without having a domain or turning attempts - they're just better if you have turning attempts because you can burn them to use the Devotion feat's power more times per day. I think without that you're limited to once per day.

Admiral Squish
2008-04-21, 09:17 PM
Ahh. See, I don't have that book, so I don't know how it works.

Lord Tataraus
2008-04-21, 09:30 PM
There is a scout variant that allows you to get a mount (as per paladin's mount except without the special abilities) and you don't get any of the movement, camouflage, etc. however, you can now skirmish while mounted, but only on your mount (you cannot skirmish on foot, only from your mount's movement).

Admiral Squish
2008-04-21, 10:41 PM
There is a scout variant that allows you to get a mount (as per paladin's mount except without the special abilities) and you don't get any of the movement, camouflage, etc. however, you can now skirmish while mounted, but only on your mount (you cannot skirmish on foot, only from your mount's movement).

Now that's just begging for trouble. Why would anyone want to givethemselves that kind of an Achilles heel?

Nohwl
2008-04-21, 11:35 PM
i guess you could ask, why do people play underpowered classes, too?

Admiral Squish
2008-04-21, 11:39 PM
i guess you could ask, why do people play underpowered classes, too?

Good point.

But still, that's just begging for someone to take the legs out from under you.